Manafort lost 4 properties today, collective worth $11 million

[berni_mccoy]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/paul-manafort-announces-proposed-bail-deal-with-mueller-probe-prosecutors-for-judges-ok/2017/11/30/7c0deede-d607-11e7-a986-d0a9770d9a3e_story.html?utm_term=.c2b36159e84c

"The Defendant will execute an agreement to forfeit four (4) separate real properties if there is a bail violation with a total estimated net value (i.e., fair market value less encumbrances) of approximately $11.65 million," Manafort lawyers Kevin M. Downing and Thomas E. Zehnle wrote.

"Counsel for Mr. Manafort and the Office of Special Counsel have conferred, and the parties agree that the conditions of release set forth below will reasonably assure the appearance of Mr. Manafort as required," they wrote.

In the proposal, Manafort agreed that he would not travel abroad and that his wife, Kathleen, would turn over her passport, as he has already done.

His wife agreed to guarantee a $10 million bond, and their daughter Andrea agreed to forfeit her share of one of the properties, a condominium in Manhattan's Chinatown, worth a net $3.7 million.

The other properties listed included the couple's house in the Hamptons of Long Island, worth $4 million, a home in Palm Beach Gardens, Fla., worth $1.25 million and his condo in Alexandria, Va., worth $2.7 million, all calculated after mortgages.

I smell a divorce in the works... surprised it didn't happen already to avoid the asset loss.

[Sanity Claws]

1. More pressure on Manafort

This time from his family. They don't want to be left destitute out of misplaced loyalty to the Dotard.
Maybe they'll pressure him to talk and have all of them go into the witness protection program.

[lapislzi]

6. I'm sure Uncle Oleg has a very special dacha set aside

Manafort is going to be paying that debt unto the seventh generation. Good.

[Sanity Claws]

9. That's why they need the witness protection program.

[lapislzi]

15. I'm not sure where my money would be

On the FBI, to keep Paulie "safe?" Or on Uncle Oleg's and this thugs' very long reach? He owes Deripashka a fuck-ton of money. And those guys with the tattooed knees are not known for their gentility.

Agent A goes for a smoke break...things happen.

[Trek4Truth]

2. So I guess it's safe to say I'm having a better day than Manafort. Oh yes this has got to

fucking HURT. I wonder what Paulie is doing right this very minute? You think he's already had his cavity search?

[Fritz Walter]

58. He's no Malcolm McDowell, but I'm thinking he's been through a similar processing

[madaboutharry]

3. Hubris comes at a high price.

Manafort is a foolish man.

[gratuitous]

7. Manafort doesn't strike me as a foolish or stupid man

My guess is he has analyzed his situation from a lot of different angles (figures don't lie, but liars figure, as the saying goes). When there are no good alternatives, Manafort has been forced to choose the least bad alternative. That raises the question of what alternative Manafort is facing that looks worse than going to jail.

[KCDebbie]

35. Falling out of a window or eating soup laced with

Polonium might be worse than going to jail. I honestly believe that Manafort was at risk of being WHACKED!

[rainin]

46. Maybe Manafort is not foolish in some respects, but when it comes to his cult-like loyalty to trump,

time will tell if that loyalty is foolish. I may never feel safe from a pardon for all. It could come from trump, pence, or any future republican president. Who knows? Republicans might steal a future election and install kanye west and he pardons the whole lot.

We won't be safe again as a country as long as the media is corporate owned and republicans are in charge of running elections.

[erronis]

50. +++: We won't be safe again as a country as long as the media is corporate owned and republicans are

in charge of running elections.

Excellent and succinct.

[Lee-Lee]

4. Was his bond revoked based on a violation or because of new charges?

If the former then yeah, he lost it.

If the latter than he didn’t lose that property, they just decided he no longer qualifies for bail based on new charges.

[Brother Buzz]

13. Mueller filed new claims against him for witness tampering......

and argued that he has violated the terms of his bail.

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but it looks like the judge sided with the prosecutors - Monafort violated the terms of his bail.

[Kaleva]

17. I don't see any articles stating that..

Mueller argued that Manafort violated the terms of his bail.

[mythology]

28. I don't know if this is accurate, but here's one from the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/15/paul-manafort-trump-campaign-chair-custody

Paul Manafort, formerly Donald Trump’s campaign chairman, was taken into custody on Friday after a federal judge determined he had violated the terms of his bail as he awaits trial on multiple federal felony charges.

[Brother Buzz]

33. I assumed today's hearing was about revoking bail

Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III said Manafort, who was first indicted last October and has been under house arrest since then, violated the terms of his bail by reaching out to potential witnesses and providing them with false information.

Those allegations led to a new indictment, released last week, accusing Manafort of obstruction of justice and conspiracy to obstruct justice. Konstantin Kilimnik, a Manafort business partner who Mueller alleges has ties to Russian intelligence, was also indicted on the same charges.

Manafort, who has denied all allegations against him, pleaded not guilty to the new charges in Friday’s hearing.

U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson agreed with prosecutors that the outreach constituted witness tampering, and ordered Manafort sent to jail. He’s been primarily confined to his home in Virginia since his indictment.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-manafort-witness-hearing-20180615-story.html

[Kaleva]

34. Sorry to appear nit picky

But I have yet to read an article where either the judge or Mueller is quoted as saying Manafort violated the terms of his bail.

[grantcart]

48. He violated the terms of his bail BUT complied with the requirements

To appear as requested by the court.

I believe the details will show that because he complied with court appearance requirement the assets will be returned.

Because he broke the other conditions his privledge to remain free was abrogated and he is confined until trial.

Now that his appearance is guaranteed the assets are no longer needed and presumably released.

[Stallion]

5. Trump's Master Plan to Reduce Budget Deficit

[Thrill]

8. Was getting into politics worth it??

[bornfree17]

10. What would happen

Or could it even happen if trump pardoned him now

[grantcart]

16. He would lose his right to self incriminate and have to testify

[quartz007]

53. Can't pardon Manafort before he is

convicted in court first. But Rump will pardon him for sure, along with the rest of the gang, Flynn, Cohen, and the rest.

[BumRushDaShow]

55. He doesn't have to be convicted to get a pardon

See Nixon - who was never convicted, but was pardoned by Ford.

[quartz007]

62. Was that even a real pardon?

Because pardon implies found guilty of something.
Unless there is such a thing as a blanket pardon in advance of conviction.

[BumRushDaShow]

63. Article 2 Section 2 of the Constitution

Section 2.

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

https://constitution.findlaw.com/article2.html

Doesn't say anything about "convictions", just "offences (sic) against the United States...". I.e., one can be charged with an "offense" but a jury would determine whether the person was guilty or not. The pardon can remove the "offense". And note the term "reprieve" is there too, which points to what you see more commonly termed "commutation".

[Kaleva]

11. He didn't violate terms of his bail. He's in jail because of new, seperate charges.

[grantcart]

14. His bail was revoked because the new charges violated the original bail.

Since he agreed to appear my guess is he gets his assets back

[Kaleva]

19. From CNBC

"A federal judge revoked the $10 million bail of ex-Trump campaign chief Paul Manafort and ordered him to jail Friday because of witness tampering charges lodged by special counsel Robert Mueller."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/15/manafort-pleads-not-guilty-to-witness-tampering-charge.html

[berni_mccoy]

20. See my response below. The Judge ruled he violated the terms of his bail

The agreement was forfeiture of the properties if the terms of bail are violated.

[uponit7771]

26. Red Don and the fuck up crew

[grantcart]

30. revoking bail doesn't necessarily mean loss of assets

The assets are there to guarantee appearance, quoting your link

"Counsel for Mr. Manafort and the Office of Special Counsel have conferred, and the parties agree that the conditions of release set forth below will reasonably assure the appearance of Mr. Manafort as required," they wrote.

I believe that his appearance met that he satisfied that part of the bail agreement and when the bail is revoked the assets are returned if the defendant appears in court.

To take his assets when he complied with the appearance requirements of the bail because he was indicted for crimes that affected his bail but has not been convicted would be an action that would violate due process.

The article you link to is to the original bail agreement (which I think has been amended twice) but it clearly discusses the assets being linked to appearance

"Simply put, Mr. Manafort's family would face severe economic consequences if he were not to appear as required," his lawyers said, calling the sum "a substantial portion" of assets "accumulated over a lifetime of work."

Simple question: Do you have a source that confirms his assets were taken by the court today? (I am guessing (not sure) that since he appeared he fulfilled that part of the bail agreement)

[berni_mccoy]

31. Bail revocation of any kind is grounds for forfeiture of securing assets

He violated bail by committing a crime while on bail. That is grounds enough for revocation and forfeiture.

And bail violation for committing crime does not require a finding of guilty. Simply indictment is enough. This is the law.

[Kaleva]

36. I've been involved with the local judicial system for some time now.

I have yet to see anyone losing the money they put up for bail because of being arrested for other crimes they committed while out on bail.

[berni_mccoy]

37. Small-time bail or RICO level? Because there is a difference

Manaforts assets can be leveraged... taking these away, and the court should do that, would limit his ability to have an advantage that other defendants would not. It is in the government's best interest to do so given everything involved.

[Kaleva]

38. Small time so I could be wrong

[fescuerescue]

43. IMO, big time would make it even less likely

Because they are better represented with more $$$ lawyers.

[H2O Man]

56. Correct.

[grantcart]

12. Since he didn't attempt to avoid court and appeared my guess

Is that he satisfied the legal requirement to appear and When his bail was revoked the assets to secure his appearance would be returned to him.

He "appeared as required" so the assets should not have been forfeited.

Are you sure he lost the properties?

[berni_mccoy]

18. "an agreement to forfeit four (4) separate real properties if there is a bail violation"

"Paul Manafort, formerly Donald Trump’s campaign chairman, was taken into custody on Friday after a federal judge determined he had violated the terms of his bail as he awaits trial on multiple federal felony charges."

[Kaleva]

21. The terms of his orginal bail was that he not travel outside the US..

and he was to appear in court as and when required.

[berni_mccoy]

22. The Judge ruled that he violated bail.

[Kaleva]

23. Do you have a link?

[More_Cowbell]

59. It seems like he violated the terms of his eligibility for house arrest, not his bail

I, too, would like to see a link. Thanks.

[redstatebluegirl]

25. My guess is he has a ton of money stashed overseas in his wife and kids names.

[spooky3]

42. A daughter "owns" a house in Arlington that is probably worth $1.8 million. It is not

among the four properties listed in other posts. And I agree with you about overseas stashes.

[pbmus]

27. This is last year article....Not Today

[bettyellen]

29. I think it's because the agreement to forfeit the properties was last year? So now there's spec-

ilation that he has lost them. One can hope.

[berni_mccoy]

32. I posted the article from last year to show what he put up for bail.

[TeamPooka]

39. I do not think he'll lose these propertirs because of this. They will probably be returned now that

he is in jail.
He did not skip town and not appear.
That's when forfeiture usually occurs.
They had a hearing and he appeared at said hearing.
Then they revoked bail and sent him to jail so bail gets returned.

[former9thward]

40. He did not lose anything.

It is only if there is a bail violation.

[berni_mccoy]

52. Committing a crime while on bail is a bail violation.

And you lose your bond when you are indicted.

[Lee-Lee]

57. That would require conviction

They can revoke the bond based on the new charges. But they can’t take punitive action and declare he violated based on a crime unless he’s convicted of it.

So they may be able to at a later date get it ordered he violated terms of the bail if he’s convicted. But not based on just being charged.

[former9thward]

60. Please show where the judge ruled that.

Not you. And don't use an article from 2017.

[C Moon]

41. It's nice seeing the rich lose something---FINALLY!

[IronLionZion]

44. Sounds like normal, salt of the earth, real Americans

the rest of us are fake Americans.

once Trump wins the trade wars and gets rid of those job stealing immigrants, we'll all have several multi-million dollar properties.

[cstanleytech]

45. Are you sure he lost that? After all the bail was for him to force him to appear

in court and he did not violate that.

[lagomorph777]

47. Happy Fathers' Day!

Nice job, losing his daughter's house. Geeenius.

[jpak]

49. Holy Cow - what an idiot!

[stonecutter357]

51. I hope he gets the rosenberg treatment !

[Calista241]

54. unfortunately, that's not how bail works.

[Jersey Devil]

61. Nope. That's not what "revoked bail" means

He didn't lose any property, just his freedom.