'Three Californias' plan would give Dems more seats

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

A proposal to split the nation’s most populous state into three smaller states would give Democrats a huge boost in the perpetual battle for control of the United States Senate — likely dooming the plan even before voters have a chance to weigh in.

California voters will vote this November on the ballot measure, backed by tech billionaire and venture capitalist Tim Draper. If the measure passes, Congress would have a year to allow the state to split up into three separate states — one centered around Los Angeles, another in Northern California that includes the Bay Area and Sacramento, and a third in Southern California that would include the Central Valley and San Diego.

Democrats have easily won California’s electoral votes in recent years. George H.W. Bush was the last Republican to win the state at the presidential level, and Republicans haven’t won a Senate seat in California since Pete Wilson won reelection in 1988.

But if Democrats are leery of splitting California’s 55 electoral votes, recent election results show the three new states all would have voted for Democratic presidential nominees Hillary Clinton in 2016 and Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012.

Data compiled by Ballotpedia, the political analysis firm, found Clinton would have won more than 60 percent of the vote in both California — the Los Angeles-based state — and Northern California. She would have won almost 52 percent of the vote in Southern California, while President Trump would have taken 42 percent.

Obama would have won all three states in 2012 and 2008, though he would have won the San Diego-based Southern California state by just 27,000 votes over Mitt Romney in 2012, a margin of just six-tenths of a percentage point.

That means Democrats would have earned 59 electoral votes — four more than they did in 2016, because every state gets two more electoral votes than the number of representatives it sends to Congress — though a third of those votes would have been far more competitive than they are at present.

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/392488-three-californias-plan-would-give-dems-more-seats

[dem4decades]

1. The republicans would never allow it. Ask DC and Puerto Rico.

[thucythucy]

4. Exactly.

Still, I don't see why Democrats aren't seriously pushing the idea of statement for both.

DC has more people in it than Wyoming. Why should it get only one non-voting Rep, in the House, and no representation at all in the Senate? Same with Puerto Rico.

Just another instance of how the system is rigged against us.

[MrsCoffee]

9. Because this is being pushed by the same Russia loving asshats who tried to push Cal-Exit.

It's not at all in the Democrats best interest. Many people have pointed out that the boundries are designed to try to give the Republicans a 4-2 Senate advantage.

Don't buy into this.

[thucythucy]

11. I'm not talking about the California plan

of which I know next to nothing.

I'll take your word on it that it's a screwy idea and would hurt Dems.

But DC and Puerto Rican statehood are long overdue. Would Congress and the parties have ignored Puerto Rico this past year if it was a state with two senators, several reps, and a bunch of electoral votes? I tend to think not.

[KCDebbie]

16. If Puerto Rico got statehood they would have 2

Senators to fight for them to get funding to bring PR back into the 21st Century after being devastated by that hurricane last fall...

[thucythucy]

20. Exactly.

And at least three Electoral College votes, probably more.

[KCDebbie]

24. Doesn't each state get one electoral vote for each Congressman appropriated to that state?

So Puerto Rico would get three Congressional Districts? That is, some other states, depending on their population, would give give up a seat so that Puerto Rico would get three Congressional districts?

Puerto Rico has 2.3 million citizens given that each congressman/woman represents about 750,000 Americans?

[thucythucy]

25. Each state gets a minimum of three electoral votes

no matter how small their population. Two Senators plus one representative.

The more representatives, the more Electoral College votes, but no state ever gets less than three.

I wish they'd also just add representatives as needed, instead of keeping the Congress set at this arbitrary figure,

[KCDebbie]

27. Ahhhh. That's good to know. Thx so much for that info!

[thucythucy]

28. You're welcome.

Best wishes.

[politicaljunkie41910]

35. Bill Maher had it right when he said on his show, "Why in the hell are there two Dakotas?"

North Dakota and South Dakota both have 2 Senators and 1 House Representative while each has a population of approximately 175,000 residents. Between the two Dakotas they have 4 Senators while California has 2. Yes I know that there are other small states besides the Dakotas, but the Dakotas illustrate perfectly why at most they should be ONE state with ONE Representative and 2 Senator's on a good day, not 4.

[Sophia4]

39. Right. And Montana and Idaho should also be one state.

[Downtown Hound]

2. Maybe in the House, but it would seriously screw us over in presidential elections

But y'all can stop worrying about this. An April poll found Californians opposed to this idea by a ratio of 4 to 1. And let's just put on the imagination cap and pretend that for some reason California changed it's mind (which they won't), it still has to be approved by the state legislature, which will not happen. It's controlled by Dems.

[MurrayDelph]

37. If formerly living in the state that elected Arnold Schwarzenegger and Ronald Reagan has taught me

anything, it's to not stop worrying about this until after November 6.

Take nothing for granted. We're living in the bad "Counterpart" universe.

[angrychair]

3. Sorry, this is a ridiculous idea

That will make elections more expensive and complicated. Not to mention it’s not as simple as people in CA taking a vote on it. That is barely scratching the surface to that process that would likely take a decade or more, if at all.

A calexit or breaking CA up has been found to be a pet project of Russian trolls to create disharmony and friction between competing camps within the DNC and leveraging it to the advantage of the republicans.

[BigmanPigman]

12. I couldn't agree more.

I have been saying the same thing but no one wanted to hear it on DU the other day.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1040&pid=18829

[angrychair]

17. I completely agree with what you wrote

Breaking up CA is NOT in our Party’s long-term best interest.

[yallerdawg]

5. The Hill - also known as the 'The I Hate Hillary' news source...

has an article suggesting breaking up California would be good for Democrats?

That's all I need to know!

[MrsCoffee]

6. So wrong.

This is being promoted by a guy with Russian connections and investments.

Fuck him and this bullshit.

[lagomorph777]

22. Putin engineered Brexit; now his lackey is promoting a variant of Calexit.

Fuck him and the horse he rode shirtless on.

[Wwcd]

7. No fing way. Its another trojan horse led by a big fat billionaire

CA needs to remain one State.

This is such a hairbrained RW proposal being marketed like all the other chop & carve up bull we've seen from them

The coup is not yet complete

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

43. Darryl Issa pulled a similar trick to kick out Gov. Grey Davis, who was elected by millions of votes

and at the same time replace him with a new candidate. Issa pulled the stunt so he could become governor, but he was thoroughly trounced by Arnold Schwarzenegger.

The final result was that the man who had won by millions of votes (Davis) was replaced by a man who won by hundreds of thousands, thereby negating the votes of millions of Californians.

I fervently hope Californians don't buy into this misguided effort to split up the state.

[TeamPooka]

8. not neccesarily. central cali is very red and half of the south part is too

It would not be a lock anymore in those two "states"
but more importantly there are parts of the state that need support from the others.
Our cities taxes support the rural areas. Cutting them out of the state would create a new Kansas right away.
we're pretty proud of the state we have here, just like Texas I'm sure, so we're not going to break it up.

[DFW]

10. I'm sure the Republicans would find a way to gerrymander the three new states

Suddenly we'd keep two Democratic Senators and have four new Republican ones plus two new Republican governors.

I'd rather not see that.

[Freethinker65]

13. It would destroy California's economic and political power.

It would not be good even for red rural areas as they depend on the populous cities.

It might be better for the national GOP for the short term.

[marlakay]

45. And that's exactly what they want

To do, break up California’s power.

[Freethinker65]

46. And that is why it will not pass

There are enough wealthier California conservatives that know they are personally better off with a strong united California economy than they would be in a less powerful, though perhaps more conservatively represented, smaller state.

And most Democrats see it as an obvious GOP power grab at the National level.

[Wounded Bear]

14. I don't buy that shit for a minute...

That would lead to 3-4 additional Repub senators IMNSHO. No way the supporters would support something that benefitted Dems.

Looking at the map, the two interior sections proposed have a shitload of red counties in them.

[hlthe2b]

15. Silly premise, but still, would make more sense for WA, OR, CA, CO, HI maybe NV, NM, AZ to merge

as a new progressive country...NO, I'm not espousing secession--just "spit-balling", but certainly the first five states have more in common politically than not. Likewise NY and much of the NE, if contiguous boundaries were not an issue.

[haele]

18. Again - it makes more economic sense for California to leave than to split.

It doesn't matter that some Venture Capitalist/Libertarian elitist A-hole thinks his little slice of California can sustain itself under less regulation and more tax breaks while the rest of the state takes up the burden of providing infrastructure and the service economy that supports the technocracy that is Central Coastal California.

A split up California along his lines will end up politically the same as two Arkansas and a Long Island. Just because the voters in the whole state ended up voting for Hillary Clinton and that the whole state voting has resulted in a Democratic majority, splitting into three states will end up with one solid Red state (Northern/Central California), one mostly Blue state (Central Coastal California), and one toss-up that will lean Red (Southern/Central Valley California minus the liberal Ventura and north coastal/San Fernando Valley side of Los Angeles County, the way it's drawn).
Orange and Riverside Counties are pretty darn red, and the majority of the residents are really much more focused on sustaining large corporate interests and making status and money above the lip service they pay to environmental concerns or sustainable, affordable living...

California is the fifth largest economy in the world, with a surplus in the billions that can sustain it through a recession if necessary and still pay all the bills.
Splitting it up will put more of a burden on the working folk because the rich technocrats don't want to pay the taxes necessary to keep it the fifth largest economy in the world.

Just because some Virginia or DC based "think tank" believes that since we seem to be blue, a split would be a political gain for the Democrats, the people who actually live and pay taxes here have a much better idea on how that split would work. And that we residents have already experienced "governance" by the Republicans and Libertarian speculators who flock to this state because of the economic opportunities to make lots of money don't like to pay taxes - the entry fee, as it were - to be able to make money here.

Haele

[lame54]

19. Don't sell this ridiculous idea...

It's only to enrich a few people

[Iggo]

21. Nope.

Californians from Oregon to Mexico all voted in one election, the same election, with one set of candidates running.

You can't take that data and spread it out as if it would be exactly the same in three different elections, with three different sets of candidates running.

I guaran-fucking-tee you San Diego plus The Inland Empire would absolutely send two Republicans to the Senate.

[peggysue2]

23. No, No & No

to all three mini-Calif. states. This is merely a variation of the same ole theme and Pooty-backed idea of chaos that was the former Calexit movement and its current reiteration. It was fake then and it's fake now, meant only to spin up more divisiveness and confusion in the electorate.

Once we get out of this current debacle and a Calif majority is serious about any side of this--that's one thing. But right now? I can smell the stink rolling clear from the Pacific, over the Rockies to the Smoky Mountains. Smells like more of the same with a tempting twist--Dems could gain.

And Draper? He's a billionaire, Silicon Valley guy who has enthusiastically supported cryptocurrencies and Elizabeth Holmes' Theranos, a total fraud, who left investors holding a big bag of nothing.

Notice how these fraudsters hang together? Birds of a feather. Don't be fooled.

[Iliyah]

26. I'm voting NO

[Iggo]

29. According to the numbers I heard, 4 out of 5 of us are voting No.

You and I both know how that starts to even up as the day gets nearer, though, and stupid people start thinking they're smart by doing the opposite of the smart thing.

[TDale313]

30. This Californian says no.

And it sounds like polls are not favorable. California’s clout in National elections is already watered down. I seriously doubt this would help. On the state level, we are doing just fine. We have our issues, but again this would not help.

[Freethinker65]

31. As one of the biggest world economies, California has more power and influence remaining united

[nolabels]

32. Did anyone notice that a billionaire is behind this latest effort

These type of people are all alike, they always want to divide up something they are unable to control. Mostly I think, they will again be told to just to go pound sand

[Caliman73]

42. Not just a "billionaire"

A bullshit selling, venture capitalist, libertarian asshole billionaire.

[nolabels]

44. Pretty sure they have to put their pants on just like you and I

FIVE STUDIES: THE PSYCHOLOGY OF THE ULTRA-RICH, ACCORDING TO THE RESEARCH
Bernie Sanders says that billionaires have “psychiatric issues.” He’s not entirely incorrect.
LIVIA GERSHONJUL 31, 2015
https://psmag.com/social-justice/five-studies-bernie-sanders-says-the-rich-are-deranged

And You And I
Yes
A man conceived a moment's answers to the dream
Staying the flowers daily, sensing all the themes
As a foundation left to create the spiral aim
A movement regained and regarded both the same
All complete in the sight of seeds of life with you
Changed only for a sight of sound, the space agreed
Between the picture of time behind the face of need
Coming quickly to terms of all expression laid
Emotion revealed as the ocean maid
All complete in the sight of seeds of life with you
Oh
Turn round tailor
Coins and
Assaulting all the mornings of the
Crosses
Interest shown
Never know
Presenting one another to the cord
Their fruitless worth
All left dying, rediscovered
Cords are broken
Of the door that turned round
Locked inside
To close the cover
The mother earth
All the interest shown
They won't
To turn one another, to the sign
Hide, hold, they won't
At the time
Tell you, watching the world
To float your climb
Watching all of the world
Watching us go by
And you and I climb over the sea to the valley
And you and I reached out for reasons to call
Coming quickly to terms of all expression laid
Emotion revealed as the ocean maid
As a movement regained and regarded both the same
All complete in the side of seeds of life with you
Sad preacher nailed upon the coloured door of time
Insane teacher be there reminded of the rhyme
There'll be no mutant enemy we shall certify
Political ends, as sad remains, will die
Reach out as forward tastes begin to enter you
Ooh, ooh
I listened hard but could not see
Life tempo change out and inside me
The preacher trained in all to lose his name
The teacher travels, asking to be shown the same
In the end, we'll agree, we'll accept, we'll immortalize
That the truth of the man maturing in his eyes
All complete in the sight of seeds of life with you
Coming quickly to terms of all expression laid
As a moment regained and regarded both the same
Emotion revealed as the ocean maid
A clearer future, morning, evening, nights with you
And you and I climb, crossing the shapes of the morning
And you and I reach over the sun for the river
And you and I climb, clearer, towards the movement
And you and I called over valleys of endless seas
Songwriters: Chris Squire / Jon Anderson / Steve James Howe / Tony Kaye / William Scott Bruford
And You And I lyrics © Warner/Chappell Music, Inc

[dlk]

33. California is an Economic & Political Powerhouse

Of course, Republicans want to split it up.

[JI7]

34. FUCK NO

[Yavin4]

36. Even if successful, then Texas would do it and negate any gain.

Aint worth the risk.

[Sophia4]

38. The proposed map gerrymanders the state so that all the largest urban areas except

San Diego are lumped together in one state. This could well increase, not the number of Democrats in the Senate, but the number of Republicans.

It is not a good way or fair way to divide the state. And we who live in Southern California, especially Los Angeles, need the ability to regulate an obtain the water from the Sierras -- which under that plan mentioned in the OP would be part of a different state.

No Thanks.
Get rid of the electoral college and let California be California.

[Hekate]

40. Wrong. The map outlines 2 Red states and 1 Blue state.

People don't get how conservative a big chunk of California is.

[DFW]

41. You have seen the real motive. Manipulate the Senate to get a bigger Right wing majrity.

Gerrymander the map to get two red states and one big blue one. It is a net gain of two senators for the Republicans. Typical McTurtle strategizing. It should never happen.