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quartz007

(1,216 posts)
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:00 PM Jun 2018

Why Can't Democrats Give Trump Credit on North Korea?

The Singapore summit actually made the world a safer place. The president’s critics won’t admit it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/06/trump-kim-jong-un-summit/562934/

The irony, therefore, is nearly irresistible. In his nuclear summit this week in Singapore, Trump gave up more—and got less—than Obama did with Iran. He flattered Kim Jong Un in ways Obama never flattered Hassan Rouhani or Ayatollah Khamenei. And so, having been offered a free shot on goal, congressional Democrats are taking it. It’s satisfying to expose your political adversaries as frauds.

But the Democrats are wrong. They’re not wrong that Trump proved a weaker, dumber negotiator than Obama. They’re wrong to suggest that makes the Singapore summit a failure. In their desire to prove themselves savvy and tough, Democrats are proving myopic. And they’re making themselves de facto allies of ultra-hawks like John Bolton, who may try to derail the Trump-Kim peace process, and revive the threat of war.

124 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why Can't Democrats Give Trump Credit on North Korea? (Original Post) quartz007 Jun 2018 OP
Asinine bullshit. We stomped on an ally and got nothing in return. Squinch Jun 2018 #1
This article written by Peter Beinart! quartz007 Jun 2018 #2
His theory is... lame54 Jun 2018 #23
Yes! Trump will never admit any mistakes!! quartz007 Jun 2018 #35
Not valid... lame54 Jun 2018 #83
Trump always doubles down when he makes a mistake. LastLiberal in PalmSprings Jun 2018 #86
I don't care what he identifies as, he was a vocal supporter of the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq still_one Jun 2018 #47
North Korea will not give up nukes Tavarious Jackson Jun 2018 #3
I have serious doubts about N Korea giving up nukes quartz007 Jun 2018 #12
Negative 100 recs ProudLib72 Jun 2018 #4
WTF? Where is there any proof that the Chubby Un is still not working on his nukes? LOL. Thomas Hurt Jun 2018 #5
Article NOT written by a right winger... quartz007 Jun 2018 #8
So what? He is normalizing the insanity that is the Rump and bashing Dems ProudLib72 Jun 2018 #9
Frankly I was shocked Beinart thinks this way. nt quartz007 Jun 2018 #11
Why not? He supported the invasion of Iraq.... DonViejo Jun 2018 #65
Peter Beinart got it WRONG with the War in Irag, too.. his tweet.. Cha Jun 2018 #73
Doesn't matter.. Beinart's CRAP shouldn't be posted on DU. Cha Jun 2018 #17
How about sticking to the point rather than who wrote it? treestar Jun 2018 #60
Any article is never guarantee of being accurate quartz007 Jun 2018 #69
There is no peace process. Only a p.r. process unblock Jun 2018 #6
Well no rockets have been launched recently quartz007 Jun 2018 #10
That's because he blew himself up... lame54 Jun 2018 #26
Uh no they wrecked their underground test site Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #112
You're really showing your underwear in this thread. Squinch Jun 2018 #116
WTF. Give him a Nobel prize already dalton99a Jun 2018 #7
Turning a monster into a hero? randr Jun 2018 #13
Which one are you referring to, randr? nt sheshe2 Jun 2018 #34
Oh for fuck's sake. A position based solely on lies told by Trump about his phony meeting. MrsCoffee Jun 2018 #14
Peter Beinart's CRAP shouldn't be POSTED on DU. Cha Jun 2018 #15
Really? I always thought of him as a reliable quartz007 Jun 2018 #24
So, now you can say... lame54 Jun 2018 #28
Pretty much...I was actually surprised quartz007 Jun 2018 #32
Maybe the first for you, but others here remember him about Iraq. JHB Jun 2018 #104
Iraq was long ago, I have no recalls quartz007 Jun 2018 #108
This CRAP article is the one I'm talking about that shouldn't Cha Jun 2018 #29
Check out post #21 quartz007 Jun 2018 #33
So? I already did and I ain't buying.. Check out Cha Jun 2018 #41
Did you prefer what Rump was doing before the summit? quartz007 Jun 2018 #72
Peter Beinart Got his Support of the War on Iraq WRONG, too. Cha Jun 2018 #74
Could not disagree more about Iraq war quartz007 Jun 2018 #75
Why post his pro trump crap? rockfordfile Jun 2018 #96
If? n/t tazkcmo Jun 2018 #102
He was a vocal cheer leader for the bush invasion of Iraq, and his judgment in still_one Jun 2018 #58
Thanks for all the clarity, still_one, I appreciate it.. Cha Jun 2018 #71
I wasn't criticizing you Cha, and actually agreeing with you that Beinart's opinion is full of still_one Jun 2018 #80
I know! Cha Jun 2018 #81
The Atlantic is not a rw propaganda outlet Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #113
I didn't say it was. This piece of Beinart's is. Cha Jun 2018 #115
Successful in that Trump did NOT start a nuclear war. Ok. Sure. Freethinker65 Jun 2018 #16
No and nope! quartz007 Jun 2018 #76
Credit for what? TCJ70 Jun 2018 #18
Well stated, thank you, T thewhollytoast Jun 2018 #62
Sems lsewpershad Jun 2018 #19
Dems lsewpershad Jun 2018 #20
I tend to agree. If trump found world peace, healthcare for all, income equality, etc., he'd still Hoyt Jun 2018 #21
Well written post... quartz007 Jun 2018 #27
the problem with the is Orange Fuerhrer is taking credit treestar Jun 2018 #64
Much Worse was trading insults with Kim Jong UN quartz007 Jun 2018 #67
That's allowing him to create the problem and then solve it treestar Jun 2018 #68
Yes, that is his usual M.O. quartz007 Jun 2018 #70
Then cooling that off was the least he could do treestar Jun 2018 #106
Taken in I see lame54 Jun 2018 #31
Aren't things just back to pre-Trump threats to nuke NK? leftstreet Jun 2018 #49
No, it looks like we have a hard time giving trump credit for anything, me too. Hoyt Jun 2018 #53
Seriously? kcr Jun 2018 #89
Is that all you get out of that? Hardly said trump is not the problem. Hoyt Jun 2018 #93
You're a trump supporter. Why are you here? Trump is a traitor. rockfordfile Jun 2018 #94
I agree he's a traitor, but the summit was one semi-good thing. Apparently, you are too myopic Hoyt Jun 2018 #97
The summit was a Christmas present to NK, and Trump brought nothing back but a bill of goods. LanternWaste Jun 2018 #119
So much in this paragraph. NCTraveler Jun 2018 #122
This is one of the most inappropriate and stupid post I've ever seen ladjf Jun 2018 #22
Really! Kajun Gal Jun 2018 #25
Post written by Author, not me! quartz007 Jun 2018 #30
And you posted it here. Shit stirring crap. Again. Squinch Jun 2018 #39
Beinart BLEW IT on this one.. and you posted it. Cha Jun 2018 #42
I agree. This is the kind of crap that let Trump ,with of course Russia influence in the WH rockfordfile Jun 2018 #95
Beinart should be ashamed for normalizing bullshit. Another progressive, Rachel Maddow, says.... Tarheel_Dem Jun 2018 #36
Yes, Beinart is an Idiot on this POS. Thank you for Cha Jun 2018 #43
Because he normalized a mass murdering dictator? Initech Jun 2018 #37
Sorry, but this is the reality: catbyte Jun 2018 #38
Yes, Beinart was played and anyone else who doesn't Cha Jun 2018 #45
This! smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #54
Exactly right. GoCubsGo Jun 2018 #114
Credit for a photo op with a fellow tyrant? samir.g Jun 2018 #40
+1 uponit7771 Jun 2018 #44
Spoken like a true Trumplican . GeorgeGist Jun 2018 #46
Don't think Beinart is a Trumplican. quartz007 Jun 2018 #77
Beyond the obvious question of why would anyone give Trump credit for grantcart Jun 2018 #48
This message was self-deleted by its author mr_lebowski Jun 2018 #55
Absolutely, surprised I used that word, would have bet $ 100 I had used "addict" grantcart Jun 2018 #61
Been there brother ... not a prob ... I knew what you meant ;) mr_lebowski Jun 2018 #85
I saw a video once of a motorcyclist riding too close to the car in front of him. Rustynaerduwell Jun 2018 #50
I'd give him credit for a well-staged stunt, myself ... unless proven otherwise (nt) mr_lebowski Jun 2018 #56
I can't say what I think. I will go to sleep instead and have nightmares rzemanfl Jun 2018 #51
Because I disagree that we are safer. ooky Jun 2018 #52
Much to early to say if summit was a success quartz007 Jun 2018 #78
No doubt for you it is. The rest of us are pretty clear. Squinch Jun 2018 #117
Glad you can see the future clearly! quartz007 Jun 2018 #118
Because he gave up so much for little in return. Dawson Leery Jun 2018 #57
Writer may have a point about 'optics' but you know what? I don't GAF ... I'm post-optics ... mr_lebowski Jun 2018 #59
We got fuck all! And I give Trump all the credit. dawg Jun 2018 #63
Give credit? For what? neeksgeek Jun 2018 #66
Trump would auction off Ivanka if the thought it would make him look good. YOHABLO Jun 2018 #79
Let me add, The Pig gets credit when he gets a signed treaty approved by the Senate. Thomas Hurt Jun 2018 #82
Your post is crap sarah FAILIN Jun 2018 #84
Hilarious. shanny Jun 2018 #87
If you think the path to lasting peace is through a bunch of autocrats glad-handing for the camera.. renegade000 Jun 2018 #88
Not my opinion, it is P Beinart's! nt quartz007 Jun 2018 #109
You keep digging in with that deflection, punkin! LanternWaste Jun 2018 #120
Peter Beinart is a well known and quartz007 Jun 2018 #123
Why can't we also believe in the tooth fairy? nolabels Jun 2018 #90
Because he deserves no credit. WTF did he do except give a murderous dictator legitimacy. Caliman73 Jun 2018 #91
Your post is right on points,,nt quartz007 Jun 2018 #124
There's no evidence anything actually happened: he flew off to Singapore, with essentially struggle4progress Jun 2018 #92
Because it was nothing but a photo op duforsure Jun 2018 #98
We do. tavernier Jun 2018 #99
it is a failure. The idea that we should count it as a success because with bolton it could be worse Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #100
total bullshit BlueJac Jun 2018 #101
Credit for what, exactly? All that's been done is that photo op in Singapore. JHB Jun 2018 #103
Yes, I do not like hawks of any feathers quartz007 Jun 2018 #110
The summit was all talk rock Jun 2018 #105
18.00 Sunday, 23C, Partly cloudy Stinky The Clown Jun 2018 #107
The Singapore Summit prob. made the world more dangerous jmowreader Jun 2018 #111
Clearly stated in the first two paragraphs. NCTraveler Jun 2018 #121

lame54

(35,130 posts)
23. His theory is...
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:39 PM
Jun 2018

Hey we can always start the military exercises again
But Trump may pull the troops out
And putting them back in would be equal to Trump admitting a mistake
Trump don't admit to mistakes

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
35. Yes! Trump will never admit any mistakes!!
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:53 PM
Jun 2018

I can bet my last dollar on that. However Peter Beinart makes a valid point in his article and frankly I was surprised he wrote this article.

lame54

(35,130 posts)
83. Not valid...
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:58 PM
Jun 2018

This may open up trade to NK
= more money
= more nukes
Making Kim a world player is not a good idea

86. Trump always doubles down when he makes a mistake.
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:23 AM
Jun 2018

If the deal with North Korea goes down as many us expect, he'll blame the Democrats, Obama, Trudeau (his new favorite whipping boy), Mexican rapists, and the failure of Congressional Democrats to pay for his wall.

Oh, yeah -- don't forget Crooked Hillary. He certainly can't.

Then he'll ask Kim Yung Un what else he wants from us and then try to explain to "his people" why giving the North Koreans more than they want shows what a masterful deal maker he is.

still_one

(91,944 posts)
47. I don't care what he identifies as, he was a vocal supporter of the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:10 PM
Jun 2018

and his assessment worked out real well on that one.

As for his thesis in this OP impling that the Democrats should not say the Korean summit was a failure, perhaps he should be a little more objective and realize while some of the critique is from the Democrats, most of that of that criticism is coming from republicans in the Senate, independent foreign policy experts, along with our allies, and other independent sources.

By all indications the U.S. took our ally, South Korea by surprise by canceling the scheduled military exericises with them, did not receive anything in return, and cut off the press when they asked the reasonable question if they will have the means to inspect the dismantling of the nuclear weapons. Instead of responding with something to the effect, "the discussions hadn't gotten that far", this administration took the question as an insult, became defense, and said it was an impertinent question.

If Beinart wants to characterize that as a success, then I suggest his judgement is severly lacking




 

Tavarious Jackson

(1,595 posts)
3. North Korea will not give up nukes
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:04 PM
Jun 2018

and maximum pressure can no longer be applied in the future. Why? Because North Korea has been normalized n the world stage and we no longer have the help of other nations. It's the long game that works not the short game.

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
12. I have serious doubts about N Korea giving up nukes
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:12 PM
Jun 2018

That is their passport to survival and world prestige.

I am surprised Peter Beinart thinks Trump deserves credit. He has been a reliable anti-Trumper in the past.

Thomas Hurt

(13,903 posts)
5. WTF? Where is there any proof that the Chubby Un is still not working on his nukes? LOL.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:04 PM
Jun 2018

What success? Was the proper ass kissing as success? If so, what result?

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
9. So what? He is normalizing the insanity that is the Rump and bashing Dems
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:08 PM
Jun 2018

That is what he is doing in the excerpt you posted, so fuck him!

DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
65. Why not? He supported the invasion of Iraq....
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:43 PM
Jun 2018

Republicans held him up as a "good" liberal, beating up the rest of us with his "goodness."

treestar

(82,383 posts)
60. How about sticking to the point rather than who wrote it?
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:31 PM
Jun 2018

So he is not a right winger. That does not mean he is correct.

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
69. Any article is never guarantee of being accurate
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:48 PM
Jun 2018

prediction of future. Every article is to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
10. Well no rockets have been launched recently
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:09 PM
Jun 2018

by Kim Jong Un. But only fools will trust N Korean leaders. History is the proof of that, and never ignore history otherwise you will be doomed to repeat it.

lame54

(35,130 posts)
26. That's because he blew himself up...
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:41 PM
Jun 2018

And instead of using that to our advantage Trump makes him a world player

Voltaire2

(12,610 posts)
112. Uh no they wrecked their underground test site
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:13 PM
Jun 2018

they have missile test facilities, at least 6 that are known.

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
24. Really? I always thought of him as a reliable
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:39 PM
Jun 2018

progressive. This is the first article I ever came across written by Beinart which has something good to say about Rump.

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
32. Pretty much...I was actually surprised
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:49 PM
Jun 2018

Peter Beinart wrote this article. I guess there is always the first time.

JHB

(37,128 posts)
104. Maybe the first for you, but others here remember him about Iraq.
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 09:24 AM
Jun 2018

His reasoning then bore a close resemblance to his reasoning here. Essentially "yes, it's being proposed by despicable people, but because of (assumption), (believed lie), (ignorance of important aspects), (more assumptions), and above all (wishful thinking), it will make the world safer."

In doing so, he and his fellow "liberal hawks" helped Bush sell the upcoming invasion as having "bipartisan support", undermined the people trying to stop it, and made it easier for Bush to get congress' authorization to launch that half-assed neoconservative joyride that made the wold decidedly less safe.

A little perspective on why people are reacting so negatively to the OP. We've seen Beinart with massive blinders on before.

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
108. Iraq was long ago, I have no recalls
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 11:59 AM
Jun 2018

of What Beinart wrote back then. But There is no reason to doubt what you recall.

I have said this so many times, attacking Iraq by Bush-43 was the worst foreign policy blunder in 100 years.

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
72. Did you prefer what Rump was doing before the summit?
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:54 PM
Jun 2018

Do you recall the panic in Hawaii over rumors of incoming missiles from N Korea?

It is a good thing Rump is not insulting Kim anymore. But I have grave doubts if Kim will give up his much beloved nukes.

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
75. Could not disagree more about Iraq war
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:59 PM
Jun 2018

It was the biggest foreign policy blunder by any president in 100 years. If Beinart was for Iraq war, he was totally mistaken.

still_one

(91,944 posts)
58. He was a vocal cheer leader for the bush invasion of Iraq, and his judgment in
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:28 PM
Jun 2018

that sorry affair destabilized the entire middle east, and killed over a million people

Also, what is missing from Beinart's criticism of Democrats, is that they were not even close to the biggest critics of this non-deal. Foreign policy experts, the military, our allies, and a large number of Senate republicans were not pleased at all, and made that very clear


I could care less whether it gets posted at DU or not, plus adding that his points can easily be refuted make it a nonsensical premise



Cha

(295,899 posts)
71. Thanks for all the clarity, still_one, I appreciate it..
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:51 PM
Jun 2018

I wasn't clear enough.. I meant this particular piece of crap shouldn't be posted on DU.

Yeah, I do remember now.. Beinart Blew it on Iraq, too.




I sense a pattern.. seems he hasn't learn from his previous egregious "mistake".

still_one

(91,944 posts)
80. I wasn't criticizing you Cha, and actually agreeing with you that Beinart's opinion is full of
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:22 PM
Jun 2018

crap

Give trump credit for what?



Nothing

Voltaire2

(12,610 posts)
113. The Atlantic is not a rw propaganda outlet
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:15 PM
Jun 2018

so unless things change posting articles from there is fine, even if they are wrong.

Freethinker65

(9,929 posts)
16. Successful in that Trump did NOT start a nuclear war. Ok. Sure.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:17 PM
Jun 2018

Successful in that things may have calmed down for a bit after Trump fucked up earlier and escalated tensions? Ok. Sure.

Trump's negotiating skills were shown to be non-existent. Is that something to be pleased about as a nation?

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
18. Credit for what?
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:20 PM
Jun 2018

He got a whole lotta nothing in writing, and said the important stuff they agreed to they just didn't have time to write down. That's pretty convenient. If two maniacs decide to work together I'm hesitant to view that as a good thing.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
21. I tend to agree. If trump found world peace, healthcare for all, income equality, etc., he'd still
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:31 PM
Jun 2018

be an ignorant, hateful white wing racist/bigoted buffoon. And he is not going to do any of that, just the opposite.

But, we are better off for having the summit. trump did little if anything to get the summit or make it through, but peace -- even if short-lived -- is better than nukes flying and hundreds of thousands of thousands innocent people killed. Just months ago, we were rightly criticizing trump for threatening to attack, even nuke, NKorea. Now, he bumbles through a summit and things have cooled down a bit for awhile, maybe just a short while.

Jeeez, people actually think because he didn't come back with a 500 page agreement -- that typically takes a year or so to negotiate -- he totally failed. That's wrong. This kind of meeting was to set some kind of lofty goal. The next steps will lead to verification, etc., and hopefully some requirements to improve human rights in NK. Bombing them into treating their people right, isn't going to work.

I know the GOPers viciously criticized Obama for every great thing he -- and the First Lady -- did. They bashed him/her on little things too, including wearing a tan suit or a sleeveless blouse. The outright racist insults were disgusting.

But we don't have to be like GOPers, just because they did it. trump did one thing sort of right, hopefully he or the next Prez can expand upon this beginning of detente and work on human rights for the good of the people in NK and the region. Maybe this moves us a few years closer to that end.

The best message we can send him, rather that yapping at everything, is to win big in November. That would be a renunciation of trump, and display a lack-of-confidence.

I despise GOPers, but rather than wasting time criticizing trump on that, maybe it would be better to just ignore the so-called "summit," and move on to things that do matter -- health care, immigration, raising minimum wage, education, human rights here, corruption . . . . .


treestar

(82,383 posts)
64. the problem with the is Orange Fuerhrer is taking credit
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:41 PM
Jun 2018

not for that, but for establishing world peace.

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
67. Much Worse was trading insults with Kim Jong UN
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:46 PM
Jun 2018

Remember the panic in Hawaii over incoming missiles?
At least orange Fuehrer is not trading insults with the dictator in NoKo.

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
70. Yes, that is his usual M.O.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:50 PM
Jun 2018

But the fact is harsh insults were being lobbed, and could have started a nuclear exchange. Hawaii was in panic once.

leftstreet

(36,078 posts)
49. Aren't things just back to pre-Trump threats to nuke NK?
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:13 PM
Jun 2018

You make good points, but by your own observation:

Just months ago, we were rightly criticizing trump for threatening to attack, even nuke, NKorea.


the whole thing looks like a Trump-manipulated P.R. attack on all of us

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
53. No, it looks like we have a hard time giving trump credit for anything, me too.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:23 PM
Jun 2018

Last edited Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:44 AM - Edit history (1)

We are better off with the summit. It surprised me when trump said yes, rather than going into his fire, fury, Rocketman, chest thumping routine.

Of course, one half-assed semi-accomplishment hardly makes up for the crud he’s done recently.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
93. Is that all you get out of that? Hardly said trump is not the problem.
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:48 AM
Jun 2018

But the “summit” is not the problem. Find something real to bash trump about, there’s plenty there.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
97. I agree he's a traitor, but the summit was one semi-good thing. Apparently, you are too myopic
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:57 AM
Jun 2018

to see there are lots of really bad things to go after trump about. The summit isn’t one of them.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
119. The summit was a Christmas present to NK, and Trump brought nothing back but a bill of goods.
Mon Jun 18, 2018, 03:33 PM
Jun 2018

The summit was a Christmas present to NK, and Trump brought absolutely nothing back but a bill of goods.

Though I certainly don't think you're an idiot, I do think your premise, unsupported by any objective evidence is.

Though I get it... holding an opinion others than yours is merely our myopia.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
122. So much in this paragraph.
Mon Jun 18, 2018, 03:39 PM
Jun 2018
But, we are better off for having the summit. trump did little if anything to get the summit or make it through, but peace -- even if short-lived -- is better than nukes flying and hundreds of thousands of thousands innocent people killed. Just months ago, we were rightly criticizing trump for threatening to attack, even nuke, NKorea. Now, he bumbles through a summit and things have cooled down a bit for awhile, maybe just a short while.


Trump acts like a fool and backs down from his own rhetoric.... for a bit. WIN!

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
22. This is one of the most inappropriate and stupid post I've ever seen
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:32 PM
Jun 2018

on DU. Who would be dumb enough to think that Trump deserves credit for a tacky piece of stage craft?


rockfordfile

(8,682 posts)
95. I agree. This is the kind of crap that let Trump ,with of course Russia influence in the WH
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:56 AM
Jun 2018

That piece reads like Sanders crap.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
36. Beinart should be ashamed for normalizing bullshit. Another progressive, Rachel Maddow, says....
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:54 PM
Jun 2018

this all came about at the behest of Vladimir Putin. We gave away the store, and got little in return, and Democrats are not "wrong" to label this little piece of Russian stagecraft "a failure".

Initech

(99,912 posts)
37. Because he normalized a mass murdering dictator?
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:57 PM
Jun 2018

Kim Jong Un is a murderous thug and putting him on a pedestal is not a good idea. One meeting and Trump's suddenly an expert in diplomacy? Get the fuck out of here!

Cha

(295,899 posts)
45. Yes, Beinart was played and anyone else who doesn't
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:06 PM
Jun 2018

see the reality of what happened with the two Dics.



Thanks catbyte

GoCubsGo

(32,061 posts)
114. Exactly right.
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:21 PM
Jun 2018

The only thing that sack of human waste deserves credit for is suckering people like Beinart into believing he did something more than beating up the strawman he created.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
48. Beyond the obvious question of why would anyone give Trump credit for
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:11 PM
Jun 2018

a destabilizing empty photo op that is not going to increase safety because it raises expectations which North Korea will only smash down the road so that they can get more concession is the whole methodology.

One of the great achievements of the Obama administration is in reinforcing the patient stable diplomacy of multilateral diplomacy which creates a wide net of stable structure rather than the bull in the china shop of bilateral bullying.

Just as he has created chaos in unilateral trade actions Trumps go it alone method simply creates a metric for all of the crazy authoritarians who want to leverage particular advantages to carve out individual state advantages.

This same article could have been written for Neville Chamberlain. In this case not just one dictator has been emboldened but two. You have now fed Trump on glorifying the great leader like giving a crack addict a newer more potent drug.

Response to grantcart (Reply #48)

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
61. Absolutely, surprised I used that word, would have bet $ 100 I had used "addict"
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:33 PM
Jun 2018


Being in a constant stage of outrage about what Trump is doing is having an impact on my ability to keep focused.

Thanks for the heads up.

Rustynaerduwell

(646 posts)
50. I saw a video once of a motorcyclist riding too close to the car in front of him.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:13 PM
Jun 2018

When the car braked the motorcyclist hit the back of the car. Instead of dying, the motorcyclist flew head over heels forward, flipped, and made a perfect landing on his feet on the roof of the car. Not a scratch on the cyclist, but his bike was totaled. I don't credit him for surviving.

rzemanfl

(29,540 posts)
51. I can't say what I think. I will go to sleep instead and have nightmares
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:20 PM
Jun 2018

about saluting North Korean generals. Jesus H. Christ. (That's my bedtime prayer, not an insult).

ooky

(8,885 posts)
52. Because I disagree that we are safer.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:22 PM
Jun 2018

When I see a concrete denuclearization effort coming together then I will give credit for an accomplishment. I think what we saw last week was a grand, Donald Trump style production, intended to glorify Donald Trump. I'm for talking, but my opinion was this approach was all wrong. This should never have been about Trump's "greatness". But that's what it was, and always is with Trump involved. I can see a lot of ways this can blow up in Trump's face, and ours. So I need to see it play out for a while before I start to feel safer.

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
78. Much to early to say if summit was a success
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:05 PM
Jun 2018

Only thing I prefer is less verbal bombs thrown at dictators.

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
118. Glad you can see the future clearly!
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 11:12 PM
Jun 2018

Can you do us all a favor and tell us how high the DJI will be by year end?

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
57. Because he gave up so much for little in return.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:28 PM
Jun 2018

The right bashes the Iran deal but loves this Putin Stagecraft.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
59. Writer may have a point about 'optics' but you know what? I don't GAF ... I'm post-optics ...
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:31 PM
Jun 2018

Then again I'm so far post-this-entire-ridiculous-shitshow that I don't even ...

dawg

(10,609 posts)
63. We got fuck all! And I give Trump all the credit.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:38 PM
Jun 2018

Not a single missile, warhead, or even conventional piece of artillery pointed at Seoul has been decommissioned.

We gave a photo op, and we got one in return.

Yay?

neeksgeek

(1,214 posts)
66. Give credit? For what?
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:44 PM
Jun 2018

The only thing that Trump achieved in Singapore is further distance from democracy.

Now I’m debating whether to stop reading The Atlantic.

sarah FAILIN

(2,857 posts)
84. Your post is crap
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:01 AM
Jun 2018

Trump has done not one thing that hasn't been done before except embarrass our country multiple times and give away everything with nothing in exchange.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
87. Hilarious.
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:49 AM
Jun 2018

trump ratcheted up tensions with his little rocket man and my-button-is-bigger-than-your-button BS. Now he's ratcheted them down again, for the sake of a photo op and a win.

And that's all this is. There is no "agreement" with NK that hasn't been agreed to before, 14 times iirc, going back to 1985. That's on their side; on our side we have colossal liar preznit doing his usual thing.

renegade000

(2,301 posts)
88. If you think the path to lasting peace is through a bunch of autocrats glad-handing for the camera..
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:52 AM
Jun 2018

You're pretty naive...

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
120. You keep digging in with that deflection, punkin!
Mon Jun 18, 2018, 03:35 PM
Jun 2018

You keep digging in with that particular deflection, punkin! It seems to be working, for you if for no one else. But as long as it's working for you...

Heck, say it loud enough and repeat it seventeen times, and people may even begin to believe you're sincere in the reasons you alleged to post it here.

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
123. Peter Beinart is a well known and
Mon Jun 18, 2018, 04:27 PM
Jun 2018

Much published progressive author. I see no reason to ban his articles on DU.

Caliman73

(11,690 posts)
91. Because he deserves no credit. WTF did he do except give a murderous dictator legitimacy.
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:20 AM
Jun 2018

Democrats are not lining up with Bolton either, that is utter horseshit. You can be against One imbecile talking to a murdering shit bag without being against an actual peace process.

I suppose Beinart was all in for Neville Chamberlain too. That poor guy got a bum rap. I mean who knew Hitler wasn't trust worthy? Trump did what Trump does ALL THE DAMNED TIME. Vague promises of greatness with NO details to a guy who has been schooled by his Father and Grandfather on the skills to take actual well written documents with checks and verification methods, extend them out, then break agreements.

North Korea launched a cyber attack against parts of the US infrastructure, just days after the "historic, world made safer" summit.

struggle4progress

(118,032 posts)
92. There's no evidence anything actually happened: he flew off to Singapore, with essentially
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:41 AM
Jun 2018

no preparation, signed a meaningless document for a photo-op, made his usual off-script remarks, and rushed back before his limited attention-span was utterly exhausted

International observers will suspect that the White House is a chaotic mess, that the US has no reliable analysis, and that US commitments will flutter unpredictably with the wind, especially after his bizarre performance in Canada immediately prior

Perhaps it improves US-NK relations, if by US-NK relations we mean nothing more than Trump-Kim relations, but viewed in recent immigration context, the real take-away message may simply be a further step back from US human rights postures -- and that damages US standing in the world, while also weakening US labor against goods manufactured under repressive conditions. It's hard to read that as a defeat of the thuggish interests that people like Bolton serve

duforsure

(11,882 posts)
98. Because it was nothing but a photo op
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 06:06 AM
Jun 2018

Claiming something he didn't do, make us safer. If anything he made us more unsafe from Kim and Putin , and China aggression. Just like right now trumps doing nothing to prevent more election fraud from putin, doing nothing to take away nukes from sick kim, and allowed him to test enough bombs he no longer needs more testing, and now is mass producing weapons with them still having their delivery systems, and with the help of putin and China, and trump. Then pulling out our service members , and stopping military exercises for putin is a huge national security threat, and hasn't made us safer at all, just the opposite . Kim is a corrupt lying killer and trump wants us now to trust both him and kim ? lol. They both should never be trusted.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
100. it is a failure. The idea that we should count it as a success because with bolton it could be worse
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 07:50 AM
Jun 2018

is dumb...he got nothing good in that deal. Other presidents have made better deals which Korea ignored. This is no different except he gave the despot murderer, stature and that is a mistake...and without sanctions, he will be free to improve his weapons. We leave South Korea ...he invades...bad bad deal... made by the dumbest president ever.

JHB

(37,128 posts)
103. Credit for what, exactly? All that's been done is that photo op in Singapore.
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 08:51 AM
Jun 2018

That's all that has actually happened (as long as you discount, as he does, damage to relations with allies), but Trump is touting it as if Kim has already dismantled everything.

It did not "ma(k)e the world a safer place", and by asserting it Beinart is showing the same wishful thinking, lack of perceptiveness, dismissal of Democratic opposition as contrariness, and myopia that he had when he was one of the "liberal hawks" who supported Bush's invasion of Iraq.

This is another round of Pete-splaining how narrowly other people are seeing things, not noticing his own tunnel-vision.

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
110. Yes, I do not like hawks of any feathers
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:05 PM
Jun 2018

Liberal hawks are no better than neocons on the right wing.

What all these people fail to understand, is that we are no longer the superpower we were post WWII and Korean war and even Vietnam.

To spend dollars on wars with borrowed money is as stupid as it gets. Especially since these wars are not defensive. Korea and Vietnam and Iraq did not attack us.

rock

(13,218 posts)
105. The summit was all talk
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 09:43 AM
Jun 2018

Of course, it's true, we may deliver on what we have promised, and Kim may deliver on what he promised. BWAH HA HA! Just kidding!

jmowreader

(50,447 posts)
111. The Singapore Summit prob. made the world more dangerous
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:06 PM
Jun 2018

Problem 1: immediately before going, he alienated all America’s allies at the G7 summit.

Problem 2: he basically promised to remove the US military from South Korea. The ROK Army is better now than it was when I was stationed there, but it’s going to need US reinforcements to fend off a dedicated North Korean People’s Army invasion. And it’s going to need them right then, not three days later - we have to stop them before they get a chance to get into the hills. (MASH fans know the 4077th sometimes got hundreds of casualties from a battle over one hill...well, that’s how the real war went. And now they have ten times the manpower, a 6-million-member Reserve Force, and an active defense industry. If North Korea invades the south, there are no guarantees they won’t turn the whole peninsula communist.

Problem 3: in exchange for giving KJU everything he wanted - entry into the world of nations and defanging the military opposing him - Trump got nothing real in return.

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