Did I Miss Something - Who Is Getting Killed By This MS13?....

[global1]

What am I missing?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

1. I don't have numbers but MS13 is AFAIK a real thing

I doubt that it is the kind of scourge Trump is making it out to be, however.

[lame54]

5. Trump's best lies...

Have a nugget of truth

[NCTraveler]

2. Far too many people are dying at the hands of MS13.

They are a serious force of evil.

[atreides1]

30. If we measure evil by people killed...

Best estimate from the Center for Immigration Studies, is 200 people killed in 22 states since 2012!



Through the first seven months of the Trump administration, estimates show that coalition air strikes have killed between 2,800 and 4,500 civilians.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

3. MS-13 makes up only like 1% of the gang members in the US.

Hardly anyone had heard of them so they make the perfect repub boogiemen.

[GoCubsGo]

10. Yep. I never heard of them until the Propaganda Channel turned them into a talking point.

Last edited Tue Jun 19, 2018, 07:59 PM - Edit history (1)

[john657]

15. They were featured on Discovery Channel or one of those channels

a couple of years ago as one of the most dangerous and violent gangs in America.

[GoCubsGo]

22. I don't have cable.

Consequently, I don't watch the Discovery Channel or any of their ilk.

[Different Drummer]

23. I think I saw that same program. My MAGA cousin said she saw something about MS13 on Faux, but...

obviously, I didn't see it there.

[Caliman73]

34. Yes they were...

So were the Crips, Bloods, Hell's Angels, 18th Street, Mexican Mafia, Latin Kings, and several others. There was a whole series called "Gangland" that featured gangs.

MS-13 is a problematic gang like any of the others listed above.

[john657]

36. Yep.

It's not just MS-13, it's a slew of gangs and you are right, it was called Gangland.

[Tipperary]

25. You may never have heard of them.

But they are real and vile and dangerous,

[GoCubsGo]

28. I never said they weren't.

But, so is every other gang, be they M-13, the Bloods, the Crips, the Latin Kings, the Juggalos, the Cornbread Mafia, the Gangster Disciples, the Hell's Angels...

[LenaBaby61]

31. "You may never have heard of them.

But they are real and vile and dangerous."

Yes they are.

A friend (Deceased now) who at one time worked at the then California Hospital and lived in the Pico-Union area where MS-13 was and is still prevalent, told me long ago that you didn't DARE get caught at certain times of the day of night there around that area, because you'd get beaten up, raped, robbed and worse. They robbed/raped, beat young, old, sick, folks in wheelchairs. Didn't matter. They're animals. Hell, there are certain areas and neighborhoods near and around downtown Los Angeles, Compton California and Lennox, California that I haven't gone to in YEARS because it's so dangerous there. MS-13 was not begun here, but in El Salvador. People need to read and learn more about them.

In fact, a friends nephew was murdered in cold blood (Shot in the head at close range) while fishing (Catch & release) in McArthur Park in 1984. He was minding his own business. Gentile guy. The nicest person you'd ever want to know my friend told me of her nephew. Luckily, they got the guy who did it because he was bragging about it (It was "rumored" that one of his own guys in MS-13 snitched to the police because by chance, he grew up with this guy and knew of his family on their block). He had MS-13 tattooed all over his body. And, he was laughing aloud it in court when the judge reamed him while reading him his life sentence. He was laughing and threw up the MS-13 gang sign even in cuffs as the bailiffs were restraining him and dragging him out of court my friend told me. He's been in federal prison running things in there since 1985 in his own set. Racist, homophobic and all. The murderer's mother and the rest of his family came to my friend's nephew's Mom/family and apologized profusely. My friend said her nephew's Mom didn't blame the family. They were so ashamed, remorseful and very sorry for what he did.

Now, does them being who they are give racist-caging-children-toddlers-babies-in-chief the right to LIE and say MS-13 is killing people all across this country? Hell no. He's conflating everything. However, I've heard people who are liberal-leaning even saying that since they don't know anything about them, then they may not really exist or they must not be that bad. YES, they are just that bad. But the Mom's/Dads, many seeking asylum, being separated from their children--the toddlers and young children being put into cages or soft buildings and in hot tents in the desert by racist-caging-children-toddlers-babies-in-chief and his racist cabal, and used as bargaining chips have nothing to do with MS-13, his fucked up wall et al. Like I said, he's conflating things purposely. MS-13 isn't taking over the country. Pres. Obama had nothing to do with them coming into existence either, but people do believe that he did. But MS-13 does exist, and like we know, they're vile, murderous and dangerous and should be dealt with.

MS-13 gang: The story behind one of the world's most brutal street gangs.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39645640


But karma IS coming for those people who are doing what they're doing to these poor women, men, children, toddlers and babies that they're in essence storing as human bargaining chips. And while tRump may even escape all of the Karma he will get, that man and his whole crew have kids, grandkids et al. I'll leave it there. Lord, a baby in a tender age shelter, because racist-caging-children-toddlers-babies-in-chief wants a wall that we don't even need built. He nor his racist cabal are softening on this at all from what I can see/hear/read about, and Dems can't cave this time around and give him $$$ for a damn wall because if they do, he'll start BLACKMAILING Dems for other things he wants done.

[ginnyinWI]

4. This gang is why they are fleeing north.

The idea is that the gang is upping the violence so that people will flee and clog the borders and enable them to operate easier themselves at the border.

[LeftInTX]

6. We shouldn't be separating families because of MS13

If a refugee becomes involved with MS13 and commits crimes, then deport.

[ck4829]

7. Pretty sure they're not the one shooting up schools, churches, music festivals, movie theaters, etc.

Good question.

[uponit7771]

11. +1

[cwydro]

8. They murdered other immigrants in my city.

As well as other innocent bystanders.

These are monstrous, murdering criminals. Their motto is rape, control, kill.

They force young immigrants to join or they kill their families. The immigrant community is terrified of them and begged for help from the authorities.

30 of the gang were rounded up here last year and sent to prison.

[global1]

12. What Is Your City?.....

Where are you?

[cwydro]

19. Charlotte, NC. nt

[oberliner]

9. Police: MS-13 members in Maryland stab man more than 100 times and decapitate him

As many as 10 members of the MS-13 street gang lured a man into a park in Wheaton, Md., spoke with one another over walkie-talkies as he arrived, stabbed him more than 100 times, decapitated him and then cut out his heart, according to police documents made public Wednesday in Montgomery County District Court.

The first alleged attacker to be arrested, Miguel "Timido" Angel Lopez-Abrego, 19, was charged with first-degree murder and held in jail after a brief hearing Wednesday.

"He is noted as being the first individual to thrust a knife into the chest of the decedent," Assistant State's Attorney Kelly McGann said in court. Police continue to search for other suspects.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-ms-13-members-in-maryland-stab-man-more-than-100-times-and-decapitate-him/2017/11/22/0cba9760-cf7e-11e7-a1a3-0d1e45a6de3d_story.html

[Kingofalldems]

13. 2017.

[oberliner]

16. Yes, November 2017 was when Operation Raging Bull led to the big crackdown on MS-13

And about 200+ arrests, including the one cited.

[haele]

14. I'm thinking we might have had 3 murders by people who could have been with MS-13 since 2017.

Of the 50 homicides/police involved deaths San Diego - a border town with a population of almost 3 million that is majority/minority Hispanic and a focus for immigrants (documented and undocumented) had from Jan 1, 2017 to now (according to the city website):

16 have been due to drunken behavior or mental illness (fights, random attacks, arguments) - of those, in more than half the situations, the suspect was white, including one where a white guy just snapped and shot at a black birthday party because it was "too loud", killing a woman. Most of these are also in tourist or "middle class/gentrified" neighborhoods; very few in the poorer or "gang infested" neighborhoods.

13 have been due to a domestic partner or a murder/suicide. Most of these are, again, in better "whiter" neighborhoods.

4 have been due to a local black gang turf war that has been going on since the last gang sweep in late 2017. I used to live in the area of town most of these murders occurred, so I'm familiar with the gang situation in this category and in the one following.

3 have been due to a local Hispanic gang activity. MS-13 may be involved, but there's many little local gangs that do not have affiliation with the big drug runners or smuggler groups - and who are trying to move into little neighborhoods they hadn't been in before. All the murders here were on the outskirts of the small local Hispanic gang territory.

4 were linked to a street robbery/random assailant. Two suspects were identified as white, one as Hispanic, one unknown.

3 have been due to police action (tazer, heart attack in custody, and being shot while under the influence and not complying)

2 were burglary/home invasion type murders where people were found dead in their homes by still unknown assailants

1 may have been due to a local Asian gang issue - the Asian gangs around here can be just as vicious or more-so than MS-13 has been

and -

6 were murders of homeless where there's been no suspect. The homeless are especially vulnerable to serial sadists; last year they caught a white guy who had doused over 7 homeless with gasoline as they slept and setting them on fire from 2016 - 2017, killing 2. And there is some rumor that there's someone is again targeting homeless.

I noticed when I looked into it, in all of 2017, there were only 27 homicides- and most were domestic violence or drunken/mental illness issues.

Because of the gang sweep, a possibility of another homeless serial killer, and the 3 police involved deaths, there seems to be an uptick this year, so we'll probably have another 20 or so homicides if the local environment keeps going the way it is. But I'm still not seeing anything that even whimpers "MS-13 Murderers and Thugs are attacking our values!".

All that being said, from what I can see, there's a whole lot more murder and mayhem in the city done by people who are supposed to be friends or family than there are by gang members, muggers, or undocumented immigrants.

I would think that it's far more important to keep a dialog open with the immigrant population - especially the undocumented immigrants, to keep the crime level down and get violent criminals identified before they commit more crimes.

ON EDIT - because open dialog with the immigrant population and dropping a lot of the "no tolerance" gang identification policies has done a lot to drop our violent crime stats down since 2010.

Let it sink in. 18 months, only 50 homicides in a city with a population of almost 3 million that has a high immigrant/transient population that butts up against the border with Mexico. We have our problems, but again - what keeps San Diego from being a Chicago, or Atlanta, or Miami?

Haele

[panader0]

17. I believe they had their origin in LA.

[Runningdawg]

18. Yes and predominantly CA prisons in the 1980s

[Tipperary]

20. According to google, Central American immigrants are their primary victims.

They are a nasty, murderous bunch.

[Exotica]

21. Transnational Criminal Capacity of MS-13

https://www.american.edu/centers/latin-american-latino-studies/transnational-criminal-capacity-of-ms-13.cfm

The U.S. government designation of MS-13 as a transnational criminal organization (TCO) in October 2012 has raised serious questions about the gang's transnational criminal capacity. At present, insufficient data has hindered the formulation and implementation of policies aimed at countering the steady growth and professionalization of this criminal organization. CLALS recently concluded a multi-year collaborative research project on MS-13 to advance scholarship on the gang's criminal activities and social networks and to assist federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies in keeping pace with the gang's expansion and evolution.

Researchers from CLALS, InSight Crime, and the Center for Violence Prevention and Community Safety at Arizona State University gathered data from official sources and from interviews with local stakeholders, law enforcement experts, and active MS-13 members in three major metropolitan areas: Washington, DC; Los Angeles; and San Salvador, El Salvador. The study was designed to provide key insights into MS-13's criminal activities, structure, inter- and intra-gang relationships, level of community penetration, and recruitment strategies.

Project findings aspire to serve as an empirical basis on which to shape new policies and practices, guide the allocation of law enforcement resources, anticipate MS-13's movement, and inform the design of intervention and suppression strategies. Work on four scholarly articles to be published in peer-reviewed journals is already underway. In addition, CLALS and InSight Crime released a comprehensive investigative report on MS-13, "MS13 in the Americas: How the World's Most Notorious Gang Defies Logic, Resists Corruption." The report details project findings across research sites in El Salvador and the U.S. in a format accessible to policymakers, policy analysts, law enforcement officials, journalists, and the general public. The report is also available in Spanish.

Throughout the course of the project, findings were published by InSight Crime and disseminated widely via their website and other media outlets, including The New York Times and The Conversation.

snip

MS13
in the Americas
How the World’s Most Notorious Gang
Defies Logic, Resists Destruction

https://www.insightcrime.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/MS13-in-the-Americas-InSight-Crime-English-3.pdf

MS13 in the Americas

Table of Contents

Major Findings .........................................................................................................3
Introduction ..............................................................................................................7
Methodology ............................................................................................................10
MS13: A Brief History ..............................................................................................13
From Stoners to Deportees ............................................................................13
La eMe and the MS13 ....................................................................................16
From El Salvador to the East Coast................................................................17
From Gang Truce to War.................................................................................18
Philosophy, Ideology and Guidelines ...................................................................22
Philosophy: El Barrio and Las Letras ............................................................22
The Ideology of the Other...............................................................................24
MS13 Guidelines ............................................................................................25
Organizational Structure .........................................................................................29
Cliques ...........................................................................................................29
Programs and Ruling Councils ......................................................................31
Modus Operandi .......................................................................................................34
Recruitment ...................................................................................................34
Joining the Gang ............................................................................................35
Day-to-Day in the MS13.................................................................................37
Criminal Economy...........................................................................................39
Use of Violence...............................................................................................47
Social and Political Capital ............................................................................49
Case Studies: The Dichotomies of the MS13.......................................................51
MS13: Hierarchy vs. Federation ....................................................................51
Violence: Method or Madness? .....................................................................54
Criminal Migration: Master Plan vs. Opportunism.........................................58
International Drug Trafficking: Gang Project vs. Entrepreneurism................62
Gang Truce: Social vs. Criminal Capital .........................................................66
Policy Recommendations........................................................................................71
Annex I: The Problem With Counting the MS13.........................................................74
Annex II: Glossary......................................................................................................77
Works Cited ..............................................................................................................80
Investigative Team ...................................................................................................88
Organizations ...........................................................................................................89

[eissa]

24. I live in CA's Central Valley with a large Latino

population, and I had never heard of MS13 until this buffoon started talking about them.

[Caliman73]

35. Typically more Norteno associated gangs in the Central Valley

There are a few Sureno affiliated gangs in the area where I live on the Central Coast, but the vast majority are Nortenos.

Nortenos are associated with the number 14 for N or Nuestra Familia, the prison gang that coordinates gang affiliation north of Fresno. Surenos use the number 13 as in MS-13. The 13 is for M or the Mexican Mafia, which coordinates gang affiliation in Southern California. MS-13 typically forms where there are larger pockets of Salvadorians.

[Bleacher Creature]

26. The voices in Trump's head are under siege. NT

[Sailor65x1]

27. Plenty

Just not the ones DU cares about.

[VOX]

29. In Trumplandia, MS-13 is the new ISIS: foreign/brown people sneaking into the United States...

and carving up defenseless whites in their sleep, part of an endless wave of violence and crime, as Fox "News" might frame it. The loosely-based "organization" has allowed Trump to associate crime with immigration. They're his perfect antagonist, since they make for sensationalistic copy.

But the media noise that MS-13 has generated is disproportionate to its impact. MS-13 hasn’t reversed nationwide trends of declining violent crime, even in the areas where they’re most concentrated.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/former-gang-members-offer-advice-on-how-to-combat-ms-13
Former Gang Members Offer Advice on How to Combat MS-13
The New Yorker
By Jonathan Blitzer, January 30, 2018
<snip>
U.S. authorities often portray MS-13, which started in this country in the nineteen-eighties, as a massive criminal enterprise reminiscent of the Mexican drug cartels. That vastly overstates the gang’s power, but, in some ways, undersells it, too. What makes MS-13 especially difficult to combat is that it is so decentralized. Its members insinuate themselves into immigrant communities across America and often victimize people who are socially marginalized, frequently undocumented, and distrustful of law enforcement...
<snip>

[peekaloo]

32. Check PBS's 'Frontline' series for past episodes.

Young men, mostly from Central America (I believe) who have made their way into the country and organized into a rather nasty and vicious gang. I think the Frontline story centered on murders in Long Island (?). See the parallels and why Schmuck L'Orange would want to exploit it?

I thought it was more of an East Coast thing but am willing to admit I may be wrong on some points.

[wellst0nev0ter]

33. Don't be distracted by the racist false flag

Yes, MS13 exists, but immigration overall, legal or otherwise, does NOT increase the crime rate--PERIOD.

Immigrant populations have lower crime rates than the native population--PERIOD.

Those who cite MS13 "animals" to justify baby internment camps are racist shitbags right to the fucking bone--PERIOD





https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/?utm_term=.dbe67ab674c6