Email from an old friend who's a Republican

[grumpyduck]

Recently I've cut down my presence here in DU -- it's just too depressing. Not the posts: the subject matter.

But just now I got an email from a loooong-time friend who happens to be a Rep. He's actually a very nice guy and I like him a lot, but I refuse to talk politics with him. There wouldn't be any point in it. So here's the email. I don't have a clue what the source was, but I can see several holes in the argument and a couple places where I want to YELL and SCREAM at my friend. What do you think?

“In March of 1993, The United States Supreme Court issued a ruling in Reno v Flores. (Yes, “That” Reno. Janet Reno, Bill Clinton’s first Attorney General who ordered that young Elian Gonzalez be torn from his family’s arms while hiding in a Miami closet. You might remember the iconic photograph.)

The Court in Flores decided that minors could not be incarcerated with the adults accompanying them across the United States border illegally. The decision was the result of a long dispute in how to best care for these children while the adults were detained for criminal proceedings.

You see, when aliens cross the border illegally, they are incarcerated until their criminal case is decided. The understandable argument at the time was “why should children be incarcerated while their parents are in jail?” It seemed a fundamental violation of international human rights. Makes sense, right?

As a result, The Flores case drew a line in the sand. Children could not be incarcerated with their parents or accompanying adult while being held for illegal immigration violations. And a subsequent 1997 agreement stipulated that children must be placed in a safer environment where they could enjoy certain privileges, including education, a clean, safe environment and other normal life cycle amenities that incarcerated individuals do not enjoy.

It was considered a “victory” for human rights. By separating adult and child, we protected the children, reducing any harm done to them for their parent’s or accompanying adult’s decisions.

A lot has happened since then. However; bottom line, these juvenile, shelters have been operating in accordance with the law, and overseen by the Department of Health and Human Services to protect those children from the hazards of parental incarceration since 1997.

So, since Donald Trump was running his real estate empire, selling wine and casinos in 1993, we are left to determine just how he managed to orchestrate this cruel “separation of immigrant parent and child” 25 years BEFORE he was President of the United States. The obvious answer is, he didn’t. He had nothing to do with establishing this United States immigration policy. Today, he simply enforces it.

This one story illustrates how important it is for us to do our research regarding today’s headlines. The Corporate Media either refuses to do the research, is incapable of doing the research or has done the research and decided to lie to you about its findings. Either way, this would make the Corporate Media lazy, incompetent or just plain deceptive. Liars, if you will.”

[The Blue Flower]

1. Must be the current talking point

I got something similar from my now former friend who was making excuses for this atrocity. I don't care about all the verbiage. What this is is simply more excuses. There is no excuse for the destruction of young lives.

[maryellen99]

10. It is my husband's trump worshipping cousin posted how Democrats cheered him being sent back to Cuba

I posted something in response and unfriended.

[samnsara]

2. i had a friend send this kind of stuff to me...finally i returned it and said they i would have to

...put them in my junk email if they cont to send me this propaganda. which I did anyway.

[Corgigal]

3. Mother drowned

Some family he didn't really know kept him. His dad wanted him back, and back he went.

[atreides1]

4. He isn't a nice guy

He's just another asshole trying to justify a cruel and inhumane practice, if I were you I'd find better friends!!!

[lagomorph777]

9. Yeah, block his address.

[Stallion]

5. His Dad-his only Surviving Parent Wanted Him Back in Cuba

that was a Conflict of Law issue involving conflicting laws between 2 countries concerning a Cuban national

so NO-not similar facts

[marylandblue]

6. The policy for all children separated from parents

whether incarcerated or for some other reason is to first try place them with relatives and second into foster care. Makeshift detention centers are a form of incarceration.

[eleny]

7. Using this is another example of Republican hypocrisy since they hated what happened at the time

[Vogon_Glory]

14. Yeah, Attorney General Reno Reno was trashed for returning

little Elian TO HIS FATHER!

[Freethinker65]

8. Ask how Trump is now suddenly able to fix this crisis with a stroke of a pen! What changed????

Is it perhaps that he was lying all along? Did he perhaps change the policy in the first place after agreeing with advisers like Steven Miller that separating families at the border would deter future "immigrants" and show political strength? Did he send Nielsen out to deny it was even happening and praise her communication skills (lies) and then have to later admit the separations?

Did Trump only change his tough alpha male brilliant mind when faced with the blow to his image, power, and pocketbook?

Did Trump, once again, play his 30% base for fools, knowing that he truly could shoot someone on 5th Avenue (or take babies away from mothers whose only crime was a potential misdemeanor for seeking asylum in th US), and they would believe any and changing stories for why this happened?

[jberryhill]

11. That is so fucking insanely stupid

The entire POINT of the Elian Gonzalez situation was to return him TO HIS SURVIVING PARENT.

[unblock]

16. his surviving parent, who was notably *not* an immigrant, legal or otherwise.

that case has virtually nothing to do with the present circumstances.

[Vogon_Glory]

12. Elian Gonzalez? The right-wing liars forgot something

Yes, Elian Gonzalez’s mother DID drown at sea, but Elian’s father was very much ALIVE, living in Cuba, and wanted to have his son sent HOME. To deny the Elder Gonzalez’s parental rights would have broken a number of international agreements and threatened the chances of tens of thousands of American parents involved in international custody disputes.

Yes, Elian was torn from the arms of those uncles but was RETURNED TO HIS FATHER, a point today’s righ-wing liars choose to overlook.

All I can say about claims that Donnie’s action is like Attorney General Reno’s action with Elian is

“LIAR!”

“LIAR!”

“LIAR!”

[unblock]

13. many if not most of these people are not crossing illegally, but are claiming asylum.

even if their claim is eventually rejected, it's not illegal to try to immigrate here claiming asylum.

donnie started the policy of treating *all* immigrants (on our border with mexico, anyway) as if they were coming here illegally *even when they are not*.


no other president has ever pried apart families wholesale based on arbitrarily lumping in *legal* behavior together with illegal behavior.

i shouldn't say "arbitrary". they have the same skin color (non-white) and language (spanish).

[eleny]

15. P.S. I don't know why you came here to post this bullshit

I urge you to self delete this propaganda.

[Vogon_Glory]

18. I hope s/he doesn't, because I firmly believe in knowing our enemies

And knowing their lies.

[eleny]

20. The OP is doing the work of the Republicans whether they know it or not

[Vogon_Glory]

23. I disagree. The other posters did a great job at refuting

that quoted right-wing deplorable’s lies.

[eleny]

26. The replies aren't the point

The OP is dragging up this story to demean Democrats. It's the "both sides do it" equivalency bullshit. Nevermind that at the time Republicans decried the decision to return the child to his father in Cuba.

[NY_20th]

19. Yeah, I'm not buying what his friend is selling

and I'm really not in the mood to read bullshit Republican lies.

[Mariana]

17. Are these parents being charged with crimes?

Are they being arraigned and having bail set? Are they being assigned public defenders to represent them? Are the children being placed with relatives when possible, or in foster care, which is what is done when a parent can't care for them due to arrest?

Your "friend" is full of shit.

[GoCubsGo]

21. Seems to me that Bill Clinton was reuiniting a family, not seperating them,

as this pile of nonsense would like one to believe. He sent the kid back to his father. I don't see how that is a bad thing, and it is certainly no comparison to what Comrade Trump and his storm troopers have been doing.

[bettyellen]

22. I'd ask him if he wants a genuine conversation but the fact he

That he sending you a cut and paste is kind of bullshit. This was a cruel policy change, and I’d ask him if he knows and can acknowledge that. He’s kind of screwed nor because Trump has admitted it.

But if you want to go zero tolerance since he doesn’t respect your boundaries, that’s okay too.

[lunamagica]

24. I'm sorry to tell you, he isnoit a nice guy. The fact that he voted fro trump and SILL supports him

proves otherwise.

[procon]

25. Crossing the border is a misdemeanor.

The government labels assault, theft crimes, DUI and prostitution as misdemeanors, too, "minor offenses" that are generally punished with fines, probation, community service. Only rarely, like when the defendant has a prior criminal history, is the maximum sentence of one year in jail ever used.

Putting immigrants in prison and forcibly taking their children away for a misdemeanor violation like crossing the border is a punitive political decision that doesn't match the sentences given to other people who are charged with other misdemeanor crimes, even when violent is used, and they are released with only a fine and no one takes their kids away.

[lunamagica]

27. Oh, and Elian was rescued fron cousins to be reunitd with his father