When GOPrs can't win fair and square, they invariably cheat...

[MrScorpio]

[democratisphere]

1. Yep. The redumbliCONS will lie, cheat and steal to win elections.

Winning at ALL costs is the only thing that matters to these scoundrels and deplorables.

[RVN VET71]

8. In electoral cheating, they are not "dumb"

That's the one thing -- the only damned thing -- they're consistently good at.

Kennedy's retiring so Trump gets another one. RBG is pushing 90 and, tough as she is (and there's no question there) time is catching up to her -- and Trump may get yet another one. It is imperative the Dems win back both House and Senate in November -- and then the White House in 2020. If they don't, the Republic is dead and the fascists have won. If they do, the best they'll manage is a holding action against further regression to corporate fascism because the Right Wing Supreme's -- Alito, Gorsuch, Roberts, thomas, new nazi I, new nazi II -- will vote down any Democratic efforts at progress and decency for the next 40 years.

Remember: even without an overwhelming majority, the Supreme Court has found that there is no need to even permit unionizing, there is no racism in anywhere in the country that could possibly affect voting rights, that corporations are people. What's next?

[onlyadream]

13. I believe the situation we're in demonstrates the lifetime appointment rule is seriously flawed.

This is evident when the majority of citizens’ beliefs are not reflected in the courts.

[cannabis_flower]

16. Also up next

Being like El Salvador where you might get thrown in jail if you have a miscarriage.

[Left-over]

15. Remember these years!!

1968 - Nixon, 1980- Reagan, 2000-Bush II, 2004-Bush II, 2016-The spoiled brat child we have now. Te Democrats need to play rougher with these people.

[spinbaby]

19. Stealing comes naturally to them

Steal elections.
Steal Supreme Court Justices.
Steal children.

[mfcorey1]

2. They always cheat when it's time for elections. Someone needs to write a book

without fear about the tactics they use for each election.

[cannabis_flower]

18. Have you read

The Best Democracy Money Can Buy by Greg Palast?

[HopeAgain]

3. Our democracy requires a level of ethics and integrity to work

The Republican are people who have neither.

[beachbum bob]

4. nobody made jill stein voters vote for her, we had the antidote and those voters decided to screw us

[Old Crank]

5. Umm

These aren't good examples of gerrymandering. The senate is elected by state wide votes and the president is elected by electoral college votes decided by a state wide vote. The senate is set up by states so low population states have the same votes as large population states. This means that Democrats MUST start getting the message out to the lower population states.

If the post was left it at voter suppression I would be on this in a second.

[Skidmore]

6. Twittering this one? nt

[debsy]

7. We are seeing a coup organized by the dumpsters and their minions, Putin and his minions...

... and the GOP. Furthermore, they have every intention of continuing their takeover in the midterms and with another SCOTUS Justice appointment. Gerrymandering and other voter suppression tactics certainly are part of it, but they aren't the only methods being deployed to deconstruct our democracy.

[BlueJac]

9. That is GOP in a nut shell...

liars and cheats

[ehrnst]

10. But, but..... I heard that it was all Nancy Pelosi's fault for "not being a good leader"

[mythology]

11. That meme is really really dumb

The Electoral College isn't cheating, it isn't new. It's been there 200 plus years.

And the Senate was specifically set up to have equal representation from each state, again for 200 plus years.

It's sore loser whining. Gerrymandering has functionally nothing to do with either of those.

[zipplewrath]

30. Poorly presented

I agree, it's hard to both claim voter suppression while listing the majorities one achieves. But the larger point is valid, if poorly presented. The constitution set up the system to protect the minority from the "tyranny of the majority" by allowing for some disproportional representation. However, the GOP has managed to manipulate that into a system where they create a majority where there is none. Disproportional representation was designed to insure that the minority had SOME representation. It was never intended to ensure that the minority would rule over the majority. They were aware that it was possible, but it was never envisioned to this degree.

It has come about through various changes made over the last 200+ years. The way we elect Senators is one effect. Direct elections of presidents was not envisioned at the beginning. But the largest change is that there are now 50 states of wildly different sizes than early on. I figured out about 10 years ago that, properly placed, 13% of the population could control the senate.

Democracy has been said to be an agreement where the minority agree to be ruled by the majority. What we have going on here is the majority is being ruled by a minority. Democracy was never designed nor intended to do that. In this country, we've spent the last 200+ years slowly expanding suffrage to make the majority actually be a majority of the people. The GOP has spent the last 20 years undoing that.

[BlueTsunami2018]

12. You can't gerrymander the Senate.

Perhaps they mean congressional candidates.

[BumRushDaShow]

21. You missed the "voter suppression" option in the meme...

meaning there are states that really should have more (D) Senators save for suppressing the vote - notably in the south, based on the trend that there are generally more Democrats out there than the media and current makeup of the House/Senate suggest.

[meow2u3]

34. The only voter suppression I want to see is "reverse voter suppression"

Giving the right a taste of their own medicine--or the entire bottle--might be the only way to teach them a lesson in how it feels to be cheated. I know I'm tempted, but my anger is white-hot!

I'm sick of having to play by the rules when the other side is long on power and short on decency.

[BumRushDaShow]

36. Well in our state

With their unions now soon to be defunded, and their heathcare taken away, they may not survive to the next election and will be no-shows.

[heaven05]

14. Well the way I see it

Last edited Thu Jun 28, 2018, 10:09 AM - Edit history (1)

is we just have to win back the House and Senate. We will be able to get legislation drafted to short circuit ANY SC RW draconian measure they okay with the purpose of to impose a lose of liberty and rights on ALL women and brown skinned minorities. We must keep ameriKKKa from turning into deKlerk land...uhhh excuse me deBoerland...ohh sorry, another apartheid South Africa . This what trump, bolton, jones, bannon, gorka want people, a pure white ameriKKKa with all women and brown skiinned people underfoot of the WHITE KKKristian male. White people who voted for trump are chomping at the bit..to kill all people who resist their 'white skinned supremacy' and threaten their privilege and entitlement to the remaining 'goodies' our democracy offers them.

We must GOTV.

That is the only hope I see for trying, again, to be an all-inclusive america.

[cannabis_flower]

20. Lest we not forget

that poor whites are also not part of their agenda so that we also not forget that they have in the past pitted poor white people against poor minorities to create diversions from them stealing everything for themselves.

[heaven05]

25. true this

well maybe this time those very same 'poor whites', after getting the shaft from their/our rich class, realize finally who the their enemy is.

Yet I don't hold out much hope because of the racist hate the trump, bannon, gorka, bolton people have are continually stoking in those very same 'poor white people'. As long as trump has them fooled that their enemies are among them disguised as americans and that one day they will be as rich as the ahole trump, we cannot break through that barrier of wilful self ignorance of racist hate.

The RW has turned the stoking of racial and cultural hate into an malevolent and virulent 'art form' that is destroying america. THEY ARE LAUGHING while many continue to suffer horribly, especially kidnapped and separated from their parents, babies and children.

[NewJeffCT]

17. They've been doing this for years

The question is, what are we doing to fight back against this?

They even used a bogus video to shut down ACORN, which was a huge help in GOTV in the urban areas of the country. I wonder if they would have made a difference in places like Detroit, Philly, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Flint, etc?

I've seen Eric Holder and Obama fighting against voter suppression and gerrymandering, but it's not enough.

Would love if Tom Steyer was out there helping with GOTV efforts and helping to fund state parties.

[BumRushDaShow]

22. "I wonder if they would have made a difference in places like Detroit, Philly, Pittsburgh.."

Neither Philly nor Pittsburgh were the problem. The "problem" is the suburban turnout and the "fickle" voter.

Seems of late, there are alot of small town and suburban so-called "voters" who keep looking at cities to save their asses.

[NewJeffCT]

23. Wayne County turnout dropped in 2012 and dropped more in 2016

in 2008, Wayne County (Detroit) turned out 873,000 voters
in 2012, it was 810,000
in 2016, it was down to 748,000

Yes, they voted overwhelmingly for the Democratic candidate each time, but if turnout levels had held at 2012 levels, that is 62,000 total votes. If you keep the same 69/31 percentage, that is a net pickup of 23,560 votes for Clinton and she wins the state, and a little more than double that if we go back to 2008 turnout levels - ACORN was defunded in 2009, if I recall?

I can probably go through Philly and Pittsburgh and find similar results for Pennsylvania.

Yes, the suburbs are a problem, but voter suppression/turnout in the cities is a huge problem as well without an ACORN like organization to help manage/coordinate GOTV.

[BumRushDaShow]

27. "Wayne County turnout dropped in 2012 and dropped more in 2016"

Unlike Philadelphia, where the county and the city is the same, these "counties" with "dropoffs" have people OUTSIDE OF THE CITIES that are sitting on asses.

There is an insidious talking point that has started that blames minorities in deep blue cities, with the expectation that only they can save the country, which keeps people from encouraging their suburban neighbors to up their antes, and giving them a pass.

In Philadelphia, there was basically a 4000 vote difference (exact numbers shown below) between 2016 and 2012 for the Democratic candidate. Here is what I posted in a now locked troll thread -https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10799588

CLINTON, HILLARY
(DEM)
82.53%
Votes: 584,025
Running mate: TIM KAINE

TRUMP, DONALD J
(REP)
15.37%
Votes: 108,748
Running mate: MICHAEL R PENCE

DIFFERENCE = 475,277


THIRD PARTY

CASTLE, DARRELL L
(CON)
0.15%
Votes: 1,064
Running mate: SCOTT N BRADLEY

STEIN, JILL
(GRN)
0.94%
Votes: 6,679 <--
Running mate: AJAMU BARAKA

JOHNSON, GARY E
(LIB)
1.01%
Votes: 7,115
Running mate: WILLIAM WELD

TOTAL 3RD PARTY = 14,858 <--

https://electionreturns.pa.gov/General/CountyResults?countyName=Philadelphia&ElectionID=54&ElectionType=G&IsActive=0

In the past bunch of Presidentials, the total "3rd party" votes here in Philly were usually no more than about 5000 total votes. I.e.,

2004 = 1,765
2008 = 4,128
2012 = 5,054

But 2016 had 3 times that. Hmm....

Here were the 2012 votes in Philly -

ROMNEY, MITT
(REP)
13.97%
Votes: 96,467
Running mate: RYAN,PAUL

OBAMA, BARACK
(DEM)
85.29%
Votes: 588,806
Running mate: BIDEN,JOE


THIRD PARTY

STEIN, JILL
(GRN)
0.31%
Votes: 2,162
Running mate: HONKALA,CHERI

JOHNSON, GARY
(LIB)
0.42%
Votes: 2,892
Running mate: GRAY,JAMES P

TOTAL 3RD PARTY = 5,054

https://electionreturns.pa.gov/General/CountyResults?countyName=Philadelphia&ElectionID=27&ElectionType=G&IsActive=0

The difference was 4,781 votes out of the city between Clinton and Obama. But note what DID increase in 2016 - the 3rd party vote, where Stein increased her totals by 4,517 votes since 2012. Meaning you need to dive down deeper into the numbers beyond the superficial. I.e., you need to look at the above to see what was impacting the totals and you will find it was the 3rd parties - most significantly Gary Johnson and just behind him, Jill Stein - i.e, there were WHITE GOP/Indie voters here in Philly who probably voted for the first time and voted for 3rd parties.

And when you TOTAL the difference in turnout between 2012 and 2016 here in Philadelphia, there were 690,327 in 2012 and 707,631 in 2016, which means there were 17,304 MORE VOTERS IN 2016 than in 2012.

Here are our figures in Philly for the last 4 Presidential elections (links are in the above repost for each year) -

674,069 - 2004
717,329 - 2008
690,327 - 2012
707,631 - 2016

Again, I am sick of the "blame" being put on "minorities" while whites sit on their asses and debate - "Well... I don't like voting for the 'lesser of 2 evils'" and "Well... I have to 'vote my principles'" and other bullshit. POC don't have that luxury. It's vote for the Democrat or die.

[NewJeffCT]

29. as I said

it was due to voter suppression in the cities, partially caused by lack of a centralized GOTV operation like ACORN

[BumRushDaShow]

31. What "voter suppression" here in Philadelphia?

There were MORE votes in Philly in 2016 than 2012.

PA has a Democratic Governor and a Democratic SOS. The mayor of Philadelphia is a Democrat as well and there are polling places in every neighborhood to the point where no one has to travel more than 6 - 8 blocks to get to one (there are 1,687 of them, each one covering less than 900 residents)? We don't need ACORN here except for whites in older suburbia - like Bucks County or Delaware County, that flip back and forth.

So the SIGNIFICANT increase in "3rd party" votes is irrelevant?

How about looking at Erie, PA, a reliably BLUE county like Philadelphia and Allegheny County (which includes Pittsburgh) for decades until 2016, when the county suddenly flipped to GOP?

CLINTON, HILLARY
(DEM)
46.99%
Votes: 58,112
Running mate: TIM KAINE

TRUMP, DONALD J
(REP)
48.57%
Votes: 60,069
Running mate: MICHAEL R PENCE

CASTLE, DARRELL L
(CON)
0.39%
Votes: 488
Running mate: SCOTT N BRADLEY

STEIN, JILL
(GRN)
0.92%
Votes: 1,139
Running mate: AJAMU BARAKA

JOHNSON, GARY E
(LIB)
3.13%
Votes: 3,871
Running mate: WILLIAM WELD

https://electionreturns.pa.gov/General/CountyResults?countyName=ERIE&ElectionID=54&ElectionType=G&IsActive=0

The 1,957 vote difference between Clinton and Trump in Erie County would have been more than offset by the Johnson and Stein totals of 5,010.

[NewJeffCT]

32. and as also stated above

ACORN was dissolved in 2009, so turnout was down from 2008 to 2016, though only slightly. So, it did not have much of an effect in Pennsylvania. I stand corrected on PA.

But, in Wisconsin, turnout in Milwaukee was down from 491,000 in 2012 to 434,000 in 2016.

And, as I said above, this was from voter suppression and the lack of ACORN to help fight voter suppression, not the fault of how people in those areas voted.

Voter suppression helped flip both Wisconsin and Michigan.

You can say other things contributed as well - increased turnout among rural/racist whites, media bias against Clinton, Russian interference, etc, but you can't say voter suppression wasn't a part of it.

[BumRushDaShow]

33. I'm not saying there was no "voter suppression".

I posted as much in post 21 in this thread - https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210801850#post21

But ACORN has been gone almost 10 years. Since then, there are a several "known" outlets that have been working to GOTV - including Obama's old organization - OFA and the newest large organization - Indivisible. How you know they are out there is because of the results in the elections this year - and notably, the number of Democratic candidates running for office at all levels, including seats that were often without any Democratic candidates - from local town Councils, County Commissioner Offices, mayors, state reps/Senators, and including federal offices.

What I'm saying is that the issue is a bit more complex and the tactics will need to be different from state to state. There are certain states where voter suppression has been the easiest way to cheat to a victory - like in OH & MI & FL, and pretty much the entire south. Here in PA, all they needed to do was flip a few thousand here, a few thousand there - just enough to flip the whole state. And you cannot count out the increased turnout of "rural racist whites". That was a factor here in PA - notably in the western part of the state and somewhat in the NE part of the state. They are lost souls but they might also be fleeting souls.

But to counter them, I'm talking about getting the flakey suburban ones in the rim counties of cities like Philly, who in 2006, voted for Patrick Murphy (D) for Congress in the old PA-8. He was a Democrat in a county that was light red/purple (Bucks County, PA). But then flakeys flipped the seat back to Republican in the 2010 red volcano. This was not an "urban" Congressional District.

Since our state Supreme Court and Democratic governor, just un-gerrymandered our Congressional Districts this past spring, there is a guarantee of at least 2 new (D) seats that will result, and up to 4 more additional seats (if we can get those suburbanites and small town folks out in those counties where the newly-redrawn seats are) - to add to the current (D) delegation of now 6 Ds (those including 3 in Philly, 1 snaking across Montgomery County, 1 in Pittsburgh/Allegheny County, and 1 that Lamb won that was a flip).

[KY_EnviroGuy]

24. Our biggest battle is obscene amounts of money.....

corporations and the ultra-wealthy pour into the GOP - both from national and international sources. What pisses me off most is that they are using our money from profits from our purchases of goods and services to finance right-wing causes because of their greed.

It seems even more immoral that big money people have to lie, cheat and steal elections when they're already at a huge advantage financially. Their hunger for power is ravenous and they just cannot seem to buy enough.

Without a constant infusion of dark money and the parallel financing of right-wing media, today's GOP would be nothing. So long as the equation money = power holds true, this will be a never-ending human crisis.

Out of control capitalism and a huge boatload of very selfish, greedy people is what's destroying our Democracy....

[heaven05]

26. true this

as well as the apathy and ignorance of those not invested in saving our democracy and just staying at home or just hating.

[Gothmog]

28. The GOP is the party of voter suppression and relies on voter suppression to win races

[librechik]

35. forget fair and square. they start with cheating n/t