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[Stinky The Clown]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Stinky The Clown) on Mon Jul 2, 2018, 11:00 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[maxsolomon]

1. I always wonder what % of gun owners have firearms

just to protect themselves from other gun owners?

Then I wonder how I've managed to make it to 54, living only in major American cities, without ever owning or even firing a gun.

[Coventina]

3. I know, it's weird. Somehow I'm able to live without a gun.

[smirkymonkey]

4. I am in the exact same position you are in - same age, have only lived in large

cities in adulthood - NYC, Boston, San Francisco - and somehow, somehow, I have managed to survive quite nicely with out ever owning a fucking gun. I have never even touched one. I just don't get it and I never will.

All I can say is that it's a damn good thing I don't have one, because I am starting to think of some pretty good reasons to use one.

[maxsolomon]

6. I know a very good reason I don't.

I'm afraid I'd shoot myself in a moment of despair. I've known too many that have.

2/3 of all firearm deaths each year are suicides. 20K.

[smirkymonkey]

10. I've would be afraid of that too.

It would be too quick and easy. Guns scare me.

[fescuerescue]

33. For police, its about 99.9%

Police really only carry guns to protect against people who have guns.

As for the non-criminal portion of society, its probably about 90%, the other 10% being hunters.

The problem of disarmament, is that nobody wants to be first. This is true of pretty much any weapon from knives, to guns to ICBMs

[maxsolomon]

35. I'll be 1st, and I'm not alone.

the majority of people in America are already disarmed.

your 90% & 10% are the non-criminal portion of gun owners, not society.

I didn't ask for cops to be disarmed.

[fescuerescue]

68. I don't think you can say they aren't part of society

A subset absolutely, but a subset big enough to swing elections and keep the issue something hot enough that we talk about it constantly.

[maxsolomon]

111. I didn't say gun owners weren't part of society.

Reread your post. You failed to specify that you were discussing "law-abiding" gun owners, not "society" at large.

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. I'm 65, never have owned a gun. Never felt the need. Not a fearful person.

[MadDAsHell]

79. Well something like half of all handgun crimes are committed with guns owned illegally.

In some larger cities it’s more like 70%.

But we can’t talk about handguns that cause 99% of gun deaths, we have to focus on AR15’s, they make much better news stories.

[maxsolomon]

109. I didn't mention AR15s. or handguns.

This massacre was committed with a shotgun.

If you're going to commit a crime with a firearm, why would you use anything BUT a handgun?

[brush]

81. What's disgusting is we all have to live with the possibility that we...

all might someday be at the wrong place at the wrong time when some nut with an easily obtained gun opens fire for whatever reason.

It could happen without warning just as it did yesterday at the newspaper.

We all live under this threat now thanks to the NRA and lawmakers beholden to them.

There are remedies. Australia handled their mass shooting effectively in the '90s but the NRA refuses to allow our lawmakers to follow the Aussies precedent.

[DaDeacon]

2. FUCK you too!

Yeah, fuck you for blaming me for a mass shooting while sitting at my desk at work. I'm a gun owner, a registered Democrat, a dad, a soccer coach, a youth mentor, and DU member so. Fuck me?!?! No, fuck you! I want better gun laws I talk to others at the range and they do too. The NRA are fucktards and we hate them too. Stop complaining at those of us who own a Gun. Start working against the companies that make them and politicians that won't pass laws to prevent them from doing damage!!!

[maxsolomon]

8. "Laws to prevent them from doing damage"?

Last edited Fri Jun 29, 2018, 12:41 PM - Edit history (1)

like a law that makes it impossible to fire the weapon? doing damage is a firearm's raison d'etre.

[SonofDonald]

13. And they want us gun owners to agree with them

Ain't happening, I didn't buy my gun to shoot people, it will never be used for that.

Unless you break into my house while I'm here caring for my elderly Mother at 3am.

And after being warned that the police are on the way because I call them first before I get the gun.

Oh and the car alarms of the two vehicles in the driveway are going off because the panic button on the key ring isn't just for away from home use.

I also have two baseball bats and a few big four cell maglites for defense.

If they're still breaking in then yes, I'm going to shoot them.

Period.

[maxsolomon]

17. Good Lord. Where do you live?

Sounds dangerous.

Your fantasy scenario reveals, in detail, that you DID buy your gun to shoot people. People you believe deserve summary execution - burglars.

[SonofDonald]

46. Wrong

[maxsolomon]

112. I'm not wrong. you didn't check your work before you posted it.

1. you wrote you didn't buy a gun to shoot anyone.
2. you wrote if someone broke into your house you'd shoot them.

[Act_of_Reparation]

116. Yes, you very well could be.

"I have X, and I may use it for Y" does not entail purchasing X explicitly for Y.

e.g., I did not buy a baseball bat for self-defense, but if the situation demands it, I may very well wind up using it to that end.

[maxsolomon]

125. did you even read what they wrote?

"I would never use it for that", then proceeds to lay out the scenario in which they would use it for that. "I bought X, which does Y, but I won't use it for Y unless I do use it for Y".

they bought a gun for self-defense; that is buying it specifically to shoot someone else who the shooter deems worthy of death. which is all well and good and super 2nd amendmenty, but don't claim the exact opposite.

baseball bats, as you are probably aware, have other functions beside bludgeoning humans, and are made for that other purpose.

[Act_of_Reparation]

129. No, I'm completely illiterate.

It's rather curious how I get through the day despite my unfamiliarity with the written word. Alas and alack, my various vicissitudes ineluctably carry me into an alphabetical ambuscade I find myself completey unable to navigate. Luckily for me the litany of literate literati here on Democratic Underground elucidate the many mysteries of the mots inconnus that verily vex me so.

Thank you, kind sir, for a most insightful and not-at-all assumptuous-to-the-point-of-assuming-clairvoyance and not-at-all condescending response. I might have more to say once I find someone intelligent enough to read it to me.

[maxsolomon]

132. my posts were not directed at you

but you came to the rescue with the baseball bat analogy, which always sets off my gunner-whataboutism alarm bells.

sorry if I condescended. mass murders make me irritable.

[NCTraveler]

18. The cornerstone of a good gun owner.

"I didn't buy my gun to shoot people, it will never be used for that. "

"Unless you break into my house while I'm here caring for my elderly Mother at 3am."

Good gun owners always keep the dream alive. You outlines some solid "I saw it in the movies" stuff.

[spin]

29. I own firearms but fortunately have never had had the need to use one for legitimate...

self defense.

However my mother used one to stop a man who had been hiding behind some bushes and rushed her when she was walking home from work after getting off a bus in a rural area. She pulled a tiny revolver from her purse and fired two shots over his head and he ran. Had she hit him the rounds she fired would have probably just pissed him off. Her S&W LadySmith revolver was definitely a mouse gun. This incident occurred way back in the 1920s in Pennsylvania.

My daughter was alone in our house in a bad area of Tampa when the burglar alarm went off. She walked into the kitchen and found a man trying to force the sliding glass door open. She pointed a large caliber revolver at him and he ran. No shots fired. All ended well. Police were called and responded quickly but the burglar was long gone. We never had any further issues in that home.

Realistically most people are like me and even when they live in a bad area they will most likely never have a reason to use a firearm to stop an attack.

[samnsara]

28. agree!

..when hubby is away for any length of time I have my guns under the bed and the car alarm next to my bed.

[Hoyt]

31. George Zimmerman said the same thing.

Zman was even training 3 days a week so he could beat people up. But, he carried a gun just in case that wasn't working for him.

[SonofDonald]

47. I don't beat people up

Period

The gun hasnt left my house since 1996 when I moved down from Alaska, it hasn't been fired since then either.

And to answer a question posed in another reply, it's not my fantasy in any way to shoot another human being, of course some folks don't read very well or just can't comprehend what they read.

But I don't mind, really, I don't.

[Hoyt]

51. One gun that doesn't leave the house, is not my concern. It's people who strap one on to walk down

the street, or to go to Chuck E Cheese or something, that give me pause, as do those who stockpile weapons as if they are in a war zone. Most to them practice shooting people, even if just shooting silhouette targets or drawing their weapon while posing in front of a mirror.

[GulfCoast66]

75. I can't believe it Hoyt.

This is the first gun post you have made that I absolutely agree with you.

Have a nice evening.

[DashOneBravo]

83. That's not the first pro gun post

I’ve been working on him for a couple of years.
😊

[mokawanis]

87. have you had to use any of those weapons to protect your mom?

Got many people breaking into your place at 3 a.m.?

[LanternWaste]

22. More accurately...

" Start working against the companies that make them and politicians that won't pass laws to prevent them from doing damage!!!"



"Start working against the companies that make the product I love to buy, and politicians that won't pass laws my side always argue won't work anyway to prevent them from doing damage to our commercial branding!!!"

[Codeine]

5. Some delicate flower alerted on this.

Heaven forfend you question the necessity of their penis extensions.

[Alea]

7. Right back at ya

Signed - 30% of the democratic party

[Hoyt]

32. I think you overestimate the percentage of Democrats who are gun-fanatics. But, at least you do

admit that the vast majority of gunners are white wing GOPers, meaning likely racists. Few Gungeoneers will admit that.

[fescuerescue]

34. I doubt that its 30%

But the % is certainly not zero, and I bet its at least 5%

Elections nowadays are decided on a few % points. Sometimes even being a point or two higher isn't enough (2000, 2016).

Can we give up 1% of our voting block? 5%, 15%, 30%.

I don't want to find out.

[Hoyt]

37. If some gun-fanatic Democrat would vote for GOPers like trump over guns, he's not a Democrat, sorry.

[fescuerescue]

67. That number isn't zero

is all I'm saying. Hell I know at least a few right off the top off my head.

Its a big country, hella lot of people in it.

The % of single issue gun voters isn't 30%, but it isn't 0% either.

[radical noodle]

76. My husband and I vote Democratic

straight down the line in every election. We hate the NRA and believe in better regulations for guns. My husband has numerous guns because he's interested in them and collects them. They remain locked in a big gun safe that is difficult to open even if you know the combination. He occasionally goes target shooting but he never carries them as a penis accessory. I think one might be surprised at the number of sensible Democrats who own guns and believe almost everything you do about controlling them.

[Hoyt]

86. I think we need to face the fact that they enable white wing gun-humpers.

I’m no longer OK with that, sorry.

[radical noodle]

89. I disagree

The NRA and their propaganda is the cause of much of this gun culture we see today. Democratic gun owners who support the same things you do are a plus.

[Adrahil]

57. Gun ownership is common among the Democrats I know.

Well over 50%. Most folks around where I live grew up hunting. I did not hunt, but I did participate in shooting sports (target and skeet).

[Hoyt]

70. If they are Democrats, they are likely for much tougher gun laws. If they can't give up guns on

Last edited Sun Jul 1, 2018, 01:15 AM - Edit history (1)

demand, AR15s and similar, high cap mags, etc., I’d be suspicious, sorry.

Guns today are as much a threat to our society as oligarchs, climate change, engagement with world, stopping racism and bigotry, protecting women’s rights, decent jobs, income fairness, safety net, etc. No Democrat would sit around and do nothing about guns or consider switching parties over guns. And I’m not talking about restricting all guns.

[Adrahil]

94. Most Democrats are for more serious restrictions...

But that wasn’t the issue at hand. Many Democrats do own guns. And the OP didn’t have any nuance, just “Fuck gun owners.”

[Hoyt]

95. Well, I understand the sentiment.

[Adrahil]

96. I know you do.

Bit if you want the support of gun owners who support stricter regulation, some nuance my help. If you don’t care, good luck.

[Hoyt]

97. What I don't want is us to coddle white wing gun owners because some supposed Democratic

gun-fanciers might vote for GOPers over their precious guns. And that is what we've been doing.

[Adrahil]

99. Okay.... but...

My point still stands. Telling democrats who own guns “fuck you” is not going to help. Having said that, I support more strigent controls whether you like me or not. I’d prefer to work together, but am not interested in maneuvering around insults to do it. I’ll just do my own thing if that’s the case.

[Hoyt]

102. OK, let's make it "F@&k Your Gunz My Blue Friend."

[Adrahil]

105. If it makes you feel better, fo it.

Last edited Mon Jul 2, 2018, 06:52 AM - Edit history (1)

My guns have never hurt anyone (except maybe my hearing). I really, really doubt they ever will. But your disataste for the object is fine by me. The vast majority of my guns are antiques in any case. Quite a few aren’t even legally firearms (made before 1896).

[Hoyt]

107. Your guns enable others to have guns. Without gunners, these guys would be neutered, sorry.

[Act_of_Reparation]

117. By what incredible logic have you arrived at that conclusion?

[Hoyt]

123. Climate change deniers enable pollution. Those opposed to universal healthcare, impede healthcare

for all. Those who are opposed to raising minimum wage, help keep low skilled workers poor.

For some reason, you believe people who work against tough gun restrictions -- and spread stuff like we can't attack guns because those Democrats will pull for trump or something -- aren't part of the problem. Those who speak against gun control, either directly or indirectly, enable this crud:

?quality=85&strip=all&w=400&h=225&crop=1

[Act_of_Reparation]

126. Are you not arguing that average, run of the mill gun owners enable the fetishists?

Do run-of-the-mill gun owners not favor of gun control?

Oh, and you can climb down off that soapbox and spare me the sanctimony. While I understand the need to appear aggressively virtuous, no one is particularly convinced or impressed by that crap.

[Hoyt]

135. You are the one opposed to gun restrictions, although you approach it passively as if you

are really for restrictions (as long as your guns are protected, of course). So, yes, I think that helps enable the George Zimmermans, Paskers, intimidators, armed spouse abusers, Bundy Ranch Militias, etc.

[Marengo]

136. If it weren't for thieves such as yourself, perhaps fewer people might feel the need to own guns.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=45338

[Hoyt]

137. Marengo, you were on that thread and you are leaving out the context, as usual.

You gun-fanciers were saying that when a crook locks the door, he's ready to kill everyone. I simply pointed out that, "when I was a robber," I locked the door to keep people out so that I could control the situation and not have to shoot anyone. Your aim is off. You guys are always looking for an excuse to shoot someone or strap on guns to go out in public, yet you can't even recognize context in the white boxes here.

Leave your guns at home, we'll all be better off.

[Marengo]

142. Irrelevant to the point I'm making in this thread, which is that you are an admitted thief.

Whatever conclusions anyone you engage may draw from this fact regarding your character and the legitimacy of your arguments I’ll leave to them to express.

[Hoyt]

144. Not true, but even looking for context, you are an admitted gun-fancier without regard to damage

they do to our society.

[Marengo]

145. What type of sites did you target? Residential, commercial, or...?

[Hoyt]

146. I didn't target anything, I'm neither a criminal or gun-humper.

My post you keep referring to, was an attempt to make a point to wanton gun-strokers who were posting about how they’d start shooting to save their rear without regard to innocent people.

You know, you were there on that thread. BTW, about half the Gungeoneers on that thread have now been booted from DU.

[Marengo]

147. Unless robbery isn't a crime, you most certainly are a criminal or at least were. In your...

Admission, you claimed to have locked doors while committing acts of robbery. Doors of what?

[GulfCoast66]

77. 5%...where do you live?

In states and localities I have lived or have family, hunting is a huge part of the culture no matter what party or even race. My family is in rural Louisiana and Arkansas. 75% are Republicans. But they all hunt or have someone in the family that does, the Democrats as well as republicans. I get tired of pulling up our party platform on my IPhone(where I have coverage) and showing the republicans that our party supports gun ownership as a constitutional right. Which it does.

Deer season is a major cultural thing that crosses party lines.

[hunter]

9. And fuck U.S.A. gun culture.

Gun fetishes are disgusting.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

59. Yup, yup... gun nuts are a bunch of pretty sick fucks!

[billh58]

11. Another good guy with

a gun, until he wasn't.

And for some perspective, from the Pew Research Center:

"There are also significant differences across parties, with Republican and Republican-leaning independents more than twice as likely as Democrats and those who lean Democratic to say they own a gun (44% vs. 20%)."

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/

[spin]

16. Obviously gun owners are be more likely to be members of the...

Republican Party. Most Democratic politicians talk about banning certain firearms or even all civilian ownership of these weapons. It is also fairly common on forums like this to read insulting posts about firearm owners.

Realistically you can’t expect gun owners to join the Democratic Party with its current approach to gun control and the way it views those that own them. You can also expect that many long term Democrats who own firearms have left the party.

I’m not arguing the issue but am merely pointing out why gun owners do not flock to the Democratic Party.

If a party were to advocate banning large gas guzzling pickup trucks and said those that owned one were compensating for their small penis size, you wouldn’t see many pickup owners in that party.

It is only logical.

[maxsolomon]

19. The current Democratic approach is to make a lot of noise

and get nothing done, even in the brief moments when they have legislative power. Remember 2009? Such a threat to liberty.

Your "logic" amounts to "they hurt my feewings, so I quit". That's hardly logic.

[spin]

25. That's why I feel the biggest problem in this nation is our Congress. ..

Rather than pass legislation that would help solve the problems our nation faces our Congress critters merely pontificate endlessly. All the hot air they produce only adds to global warming.

Plus Congress refuses to address any serious issues in the years when there is an election. That means they only think about doing something big one yerar out of two. When they do consider big legislation the big donors, corporations, pharmaceutical industry and the special interest groups take priority over those who voted to elect them.

Today the art of compromise is dead as both parties play foolish political games and fight like unsupervised kids in a school playground.

It seems they wish our president could address all problems via executive orders like a monarch.

I have no doubt our Congress is broken. It’s a lot like Humpty Dumpty after his fall.

[maxsolomon]

36. One party's playing Tiddlywinks.

The other's playing Russian Roulette.

But both are playing games, I suppose.

[Hoyt]

39. Most white wing gunners don't come close to accepting core Democratic principles, never will.

[spin]

43. I know a good number of blacks and Hispanics who legally own firearms. ...

Some have concealed weapons permits and carry. Most of course are Democrats.

Of course I live in Florida where it seems almost everybody owns a gun or has a small collection of firearms. That’s why it is often called the Gunshine State.

[Hoyt]

44. Home of George Zimmerman and went for trump.

[spin]

50. All those people I know who have carry permits agree with me that...

Zimmerman was playing Rambo. He went looking for trouble and it found him.

I seriously doubt that I would have noticed anything all that suspicious about Travon Martin. If I had I would have simply called the police and went on my way. Zimmerman had no reason to leave his vehicle.

Yes, Florida did go for Trump. That might well be because enough gun owners felt her comment that an Australian gun buy back program was an idea worth considering a big factor in their decision. Most gun owners view that program as a form of mandatory gun confiscation. The call for gun bans and confiscation of certain firearms has cost the Democrats a lot of votes in Florida where over 1,000,000 residents have concealed carry permits and firearms are ubiquitous. AR-15s are also commonly used to hunt feral hog in this state. Feral hogs are considered a major pest as they are not native to Florida and do considerable damage to the environment. When properly prepared the meat from these animals is very tasty and consequently many people in the fairly rural area I live in hunt hog.

[Hoyt]

61. Come on. I bet less than 2% of AR15 lovers have ever seen a feral hog, much less hunt them or

any other 4-legged animal. I bet 70% or more owners are white wing racists armed up in fear.

[Jakes Progress]

64. You use a lot of hysterical stereotypes.

People are not as simple as you want them to be. You can bet your preconceptions and knee-jerk flaming all you want.

Your own figures say that you are telling 30% of Democrats to fuck themselves. Good move in an election year. Putin would like that.

[Hoyt]

74. White wing gunners are pretty much the same. I grew up with them. Probably shot

more guns than any two of them. But I grew up and have seen the damage their damn guns do.

To keep them happy, we have to let people blast away with AR15s in churches, schools, etc., march around with them with confederate flags, and worse. Sorry, hunt feral hogs with a lever action or even a big-assed pistol that you leave at home otherwise, not an AR15, to help out the cause. That’s what many Democrats want.

[Jakes Progress]

78. What are you? 12?

Not everyone with a gun is a nut. You keep lumping assault weapons with gun owners. No sane individual buys an assault weapon. I like the old joke that if you need a gun that shoots 30 rounds a second to hunt deer, maybe hunting isn't your sport.

(Personally, I don't hunt. I don't think of it as a sport. I don't see the appeal.)

As long as you want to compare everyone with a 30-30 that they got from their dad when he died to drooling, gun fetishists, you will hamper the progress of the Democratic party, cause the gun nuts to dig in, and never bring about sorely needed gun control.

Slapping paint with that big old brush just makes everything crap.

[Hoyt]

84. Everyone standing in the way of sensible gun laws enables these fuckers,

?resize=1200%2C1495


BTW, I’m almost six times 12, and I outgrew guns decades ago when I saw what they did to innocent people. Too bad you didn’t.

[Jakes Progress]

92. Still can't handle a better brush?

Who here is against gun laws? I favor registering all guns - even those now in private hands. I favor banning loaded weapons outside of shooting ranges. I favor holding the owners of guns responsible for any damage, injury, or death that occurs with the gun registered in their names. Gun manufacturers should be accountable. 20 year felony conviction for having an unregistered gun. Mandatory sentencing for any crime committed with a gun. Ban and confiscate all assault weapons.

You can't get any of that done by whining, stamping you feet, and demanding that people who don't share your views should be fucked. Because you will not get anyone elected and never have a majority.

But hey. If self-righteous rage makes you feel better, that's all that matters - right?

[Hoyt]

93. Yet, to protect guns for Democrats, you are willing to coddle racist gun-humping GOPers.

If they are true Democrats, they won’t vote for trump or GOPers over tough gun laws.

[Jakes Progress]

101. And, to project your ego image

you would be okay if hundreds more die because you are too pure to compromise or work with anyone you don't deem pure. How saintly.

And that sloppy brush you use must really stop up your ears and eyes. No one said anything about coddling racists. You just can't imagine that anyone with a gun can be anything but a racist, gun-humping republican. That behavior and self-aggrandizing myopia does nothing to help the party nor to control the spread of guns in our culture. It only exacerbates a problem that is too complicated for some to get if it means realizing they are more ego driven than results driven.

(By the way, Woody was known to carry a gun. Wrote a song celebrating a sniper.)

[Hoyt]

103. Nowadays, in a civilized world, where we are not hopping freight

trains and living in the woods (most of us anyway), strapping on a gun or two to go to Chuck E Cheeze or town is an act of violence against society. The majority, and it’s a vast majority, of gun toters are GOPer racists. They are the party of gun-Humpers.

Democrats ought not enable that, and it’s surprising when they do.

[Jakes Progress]

104. You seem no more amenable to reason

than the majority of NRA gun nuts.

If you think you are safer now than when Woody rode the rails or that he was protecting himself from hoboes and bears, you are not very well informed. Woody sought protection from Pinkerton goons, work camp bosses, and government stooges.

There are analogous examples that harry peaceful citizens today. Throw in the militia thugs and the kind of white supremacists that attacked in Charlottesville and you have as much a reason as Woody to arm.

And if you want to garner the votes and support from gun owners who don't hump their guns and find the NRA just as distasteful as you do, you will stop equating the two. Earlier in this thread, you alluded to your age. Suppose I just chalk up your delusional raving as the results of the slobbering dementia that all elderly citizens possess. (Gotta put in a sarcasm note here, since some readers don't get subtlety no matter how heavy handed.) Or maybe I could lump you in with trump supporters since most of the elderly support trump. And you may be white. The majority of white people voted for trump. So you must have voted for trump and want to separate children from their parents at the border. You make the same kind of inane, knee-jerk statements when you carry on with your rants.

[Hoyt]

108. I don't think more guns will make anything better. Plus, I'd like to see your evidence that Guthrie

was a gun toter.

Finally, you can chalk my rants up to dementia if you like. I'll just chalk your love of guns up to irrational fears and concern about your own irrational needs over those of a civilized society. People do fine in European countries, Australia, Japan, etc., without strapping guns on to walk down the street.

[Jakes Progress]

138. Is it inability or unwillingness to read

that is the result of whatever bit of unfortunate history has caused this problem for you. I'm sorry for whatever trauma has made you so unable to discuss with rationality. I did the whole sentence about sarcasm, but it still escaped your notice. I can see that a serious discussion of the harm you do to the fight for better gun laws is not possible. My condolences to your acquaintances in real life that must deal with your trauma-induced myopia away from the internet. Better you get it out at the keyboard.

I won't bandy history or facts with you since, like the trump-hummers, you ignore facts and prefer histrionics and hysterics.

Have you can live in a nice gun-free world. Some one will be there to take care of you if the real life that trump is engendering comes for you.

Peace.

[Hoyt]

141. I've avoided using "trump" with you. And I've lived a long life

without a gun in my pants to go to town, or needing an armed hero-wannabe to protect me.

Suppose, you were unable to find proof of Guthrie running around with a gun, although he probably had more reason to have one than today’s gunners.

[Marengo]

127. Before becoming too entangled in Hoyt's nonsense, it may be of benefit for you to know...

He’s admitted to having committed the crime of robbery on this site. That may just explain his hostility towards firearms.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=45338

[Hoyt]

133. Marengo, you were on that thread and you are leaving out the context, as usual.

You gun-fanciers were saying that when a crook locks the door, he's ready to kill everyone. I simply pointed out that, "when I was a robber," I locked the door to keep people out so that I could control the situation and not have to shoot anyone. Your aim is off. You guys are always looking for an excuse to shoot someone or strap on guns to go out in public, yet you can't even recognize context in the white boxes here.

Leave your guns at home, we'll all be better off.

[Marengo]

143. Refer to post #142

[Jakes Progress]

139. It does seem that something triggered

a bit of irrationality. I feel for him then, but he can do horrible damage to the chances of the party to win back the legislative branch.

[wonkwest]

128. We don't live in a civilized world.

We just live in the world.

Which part of that is hard for you? Because some part of it seems to be.

[Hoyt]

134. BS. Too the extent we don't, you can blame gun-humpers.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gQAyLSEiS-g/U7m7rehxcMI/AAAAAAAAA1g/7Mnu_hkYAfk/s1600/open+carry.jpg

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=1484

[spin]

71. Since I have lived in Florida for almost half a century I have probably seen a lot...

Last edited Sat Jun 30, 2018, 12:52 AM - Edit history (1)

of animals and reptiles that you have never seen except in a zoo. Of course that includes feral hogs. They are smart and quick and I’ve known several people who had to climb a tree because a feral hog attacked them. Like you I am not a hunter but I have enjoyed hog meat through the years.

Hog Wild In Florida: UF Experts Say Feral Pig Problem Here To Stay
Date:
June 7, 2005
Source:
University Of Florida
Summary:
Florida's population boom now includes some 500,000 wild hogs whose piggish habits are causing problems for farmers, residents and health officials as well as native flora and fauna.

GAINESVILLE, Fla. --- Florida's population boom now includes some 500,000 wild hogs whose piggish habits are causing problems for farmers, residents and health officials as well as native flora and fauna.

"Nothing personal, but the only state with more wild hogs than Florida is Texas," said Bill Giuliano, an assistant professor of wildlife ecology at the University of Florida's Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences. Wild or feral hogs can now be found in every Florida county and in at least 35 states -- including 1 million to 2 million hogs in the Southeast. Nationwide, their population totals about 3 million.

***snip***

"Wild hogs, which usually weigh 100 to 200 pounds, are dangerous," Giuliano said. "Although they prefer to run and escape danger, they can be aggressive when they're injured or cornered. They can move with great speed and can cause serious injury with their tusks."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/06/050607012122.htm

While I don’t personally own any “assault weapons” like an AR-15 I do know a lot of people who do. None are white racists. In fact some are black or Hispanic. Most use these weapons for target shooting or hunting. They are not the greatest weapon for self defense in an urban environment and in most cases even in very rural areas the best weapon for home defense is a good old shotgun.

I wouldn’t describe the people I know who own firearms and have the skill to use them effectively as fearful. Prepared and cautious perhaps, but not fearful.

[Hoyt]

85. I've seen feral hogs on undeveloped land in rural SC. Didn't have an AR15 to survive.

I know, there are no people like this in a Florida, to hear gunners tell it.


?resize=1200%2C1495


Sorry, these people, who represent a big chunk of gun owners, are too big a threat to us to worry about a bunch of gun owners that can’t function without a load of guns and one or two strapped to their body when they go to town. If you can’t make it with a lever action and six shooter on your property, I suggest you reassess your needs and fears.

[spin]

88. I have never seen such people marching in Florida. ...

There are undoubtedly some here but as far as I know they don’t parade down streets often with rifles. The law in Florida frowns on the open carry of firearms in public. Upsets the tourists. Can’t allow that.

I live in a small town. Since I target shoot with handguns I have no real need for an AR-15 or a similar rifle. I might consider buying one if I move to a more rural area and live on some hog infested property. But then I am a dinosaur. I like revolvers better than pistols. I would probably just buy a lever action rifle to eliminate the hogs on my property. Of course I would also carry a .44 magnum revolver in case a pissed off hog put me up a tree.

[hunter]

100. I hunt feral hogs with a rake...

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/112721453

I'm not unfamiliar with guns or feral hogs. My family tradition is American Wild West. As I was growing up the freezer was full of wild fish and game, and farm animals I'd known alive.

Gun fetishes are disgusting and U.S. gun culture needs to go the way of drunk-driving culture, racist culture, and creepy-older-guys-hitting-on-high-school-girls culture.

If you think I'm bashing the South, I assure you there are plenty of creepy gun fetishists in California too.

[spin]

106. Some people hunt feral hogs with a spear or a big knife.

http://hoghuntinginflorida.com

[Watch This] Unbelievable! Man Went Hog Hunting With Only A Hunting Knife
https://outdoorwarrior.com/knife-hog-hunting/

Such people impress me.

Not many hunt hog with a rake. I’m really impressed.

[Hoyt]

140. +1000000000000000, and then some.

[sellitman]

12. I'm with you on this.

Wish more were.

[aikoaiko]

14. Another day. Another rant.

[LBM20]

15. There is a YUGE difference between legal safe hunting and target shooting and this shit.

Safe legal hunters and sport shooters are not mass murderers. Enough of this kind of nonsense.

[maxsolomon]

20. Most gun-control advocates have 0 issues with hunting weapons, or hunters.

I know I don't, except when they break the law. Of course, this particular mass murderer used a hunting weapon...

The OP is an emotional reaction to the ongoing random slaughter of Americans that firearms facilitate. You can expect it next time it happens, too, so gird your loins.

[samnsara]

27. thank you! Thats what I am altho hubby no longer hunts..

..we do target practice. Our local Dem group has many gun owners. We want to start a 2amend group which advocates safe responsible gun ownership....thru education and respect, not fear.

[Hoyt]

41. 6% of population has hunted at least once in past 12 months. That's not many, and I bet a good

chunk of those were just white wingers getting away from the wife over baited fields to drink and god knows what else for a few days. Point is, there are not many real hunters anymore. I'm fine with people who hunt to feed the family having one or two HUNTING rifles locked away at home.

Now, when the start toting in public, buying a bunch of AR15s, etc., or intimidating like this . . . . . . .

[maxsolomon]

113. 6% of 300 million

is a lot of hunters. do you count fishing in that 18 million?

[Hoyt]

115. "Once in 12 months" means a lot of them aren't hungry hunters.

And it doesn’t justify all the AR15 type weapons, maybe a shotgun or bolt/lever action rifle.

[SidDithers]

21. +1...

"sane" gun owners provide cover for gun-humping nutjobs.

I view the decision to own guns as a sign of poor judgement. Gun owners choose to perpetuate and support a system and a culture that causes tens of thousands of deaths a year.

Gun ownership needs to be made socially unacceptable, like driving while impaired. Yes, people will still choose to own guns, but I want there to be a stigma attached to that selfish choice.

Sid

[GulfCoast66]

23. Right back at you.

Because I view the decision to push our party into backing positions that will insure perpetual minority status a sign of Poor judgement.

Good judgement is realizing in many states a majority of our party members own guns and also support tighter restrictions on guns.

Hell, many non-democrat gun owners support tighter regulations and will vote for a party who supports that position but would never vote for a party that holds the position that “sane” gun owners provide cover for gun-humping nut jobs.

And I am re-violating my rule not to post on gun threads anymore! They just sow division, fail to educate or entertain and never change views.

[SidDithers]

24. I'm not interested in regulations anymore...

regulations don't work.

Culture change is needed. Reduction in the number of guns is needed.

And I believe that the only way to do that is to make the idea of gun ownership unpalatable to civilized society.


If you're not willing to work toward reducing the number of guns in your society, then you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Sid

[DashOneBravo]

54. I thought you were Canadian and lived there.

[SidDithers]

55. I am and have never made that a secret...

That information has been in my DU profile for 16 years.

What's your point?

Sid

[DashOneBravo]

56. I was just confirming

“I view the decision to own guns as a sign of poor judgement.”

That’s your comment and I’m going to politely explain a couple of things. Just to give you some feedback from a Democratic gun owner. A lot of us live in rural areas and there are 2 deputies in our county. The median combined income is $35,000 so we hunt with rifles and shotguns that were in some cases handed down through 2 generations.

Remember the Blue wall of MI, WI and Pennsylvania that went to Trump? What’s a big part of those states? I was in a Dana plant in Reading and they closed the plant on opening day of deer season.

[SidDithers]

58. I don't give a rat's ass why you've got guns...

Times change.

Our grandparents and, maybe, parents, thought nothing of getting into a car after a night of drinking, and driving home with way too much alcohol in their system.

A long campaign to stigmatize drinking and driving has worked. It's no longer a socially acceptable thing to do.

Your society has shown, over and over and over and over and over, that guns are too easy to get, and too easy to use, with tragic results. Gun culture, of which you and your hand-me-down guns are a part, is the cause of that. "Responsible" gun owners legitimize the gun industry and the gun culture in America. "Responsible" gun owners should be smart enough to recognize the fact that guns are a sickness in their society. "Responsible" gun owners should recognize that a healthier society is one with fewer guns.

It's long past the time to stop coddling gun owners. The time for live-and-let-live is gone. Every gun, whether passed down from dear-old pappy, or bought at the local Cabelas, is a danger to society, and should be treated as such.

And I reserve the right to question the judgement of anyone that props up the gun industry and gun culture in the US by continuing to own guns.

Sid

[DashOneBravo]

62. Nice wall of text.

Respectfully you can reserve the right to question the rights of American gun owners but a couple of points.

Thanks for another bystander lecturing us.

Gun control has been a losing plank for several cycles, I’d like to win some.

[SidDithers]

63. Wall of text. LOL...

Enjoy your fetish. And be sure to send thoughts and prayers next time some kid, with an AR-15 they got from their dad, shoots up a high school.

And the rest of us will once again recognize that you're part of the problem, not the solution.


Sid

[DashOneBravo]

69. Here's the thing

You don’t sound sincere. You come off sounding like someone who was told that they are special every day.

What are you doing to advance gun control beside posting your outrage?

You know what I’m doing? I’m teaching new pistol shooters and a bunch are elderly ladies

[hunter]

98. That's disgusting.

I'm NOT Canadian, born in the U.S.A., and I have no trouble equating gun fetishes to drunk driving and other socially unacceptable behaviors.

If you feel you must vote Republican because some anonymous guy on the internet finds gun fetishes disgusting, well, that's on you.

[wonkwest]

130. Great, you don't understand America in the slightest.

Yay for you, I suppose.

Meanwhile, we all have to deal with it.

[samnsara]

26. i own several guns..so does hubby..I've takes safety classes and have even shot competitvely..

..just cuz I own a gun doesnt mean im going to go shoot a person. We have predators where we live..bear..cougar..rattlesnakes..plus I have been alone up here in my home..in the forest.. when have had ppl bang on my door at midnight because they rolled their jeep or some other stupid ass thing. THANK GOD I had my gun. They eventually went away and banged on the neighbors door across the canyon.


Irresponsible gun owners are the ones who shouldn't have guns.

[maxsolomon]

42. So, being responsible, what changes would you accept?

Longer waiting periods of 3 or 6 months?
More thorough background checks, including Police interviews?
Yearly Militia duties with your fellow gun owners?

Would you accept any additional responsibilities if it cut down on "irresponsible" gun owners?

BTW, your story about refusing to help a stranger after a car crash in a canyon at midnight is probably not your best look.

[Kaleva]

121. Anything that passes Congress would be fine with me.

[The Polack MSgt]

30. I'd rather fight the Democratic Party on gun rights from the inside

Than fight the GOP from the inside over everything else.

I don't own guns at this moment because my son struggled with depression so I sold 'em. But I will be picking up a couple soon, depending on our budget.

So feel free to make fun of my dick I guess?

So, you know, fuck you right back.

[vercetti2021]

38. Don't rope me in with those people nt

[sweetapogee]

45. Say it loud

and say it plowed!

Exciting thoughts here!

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

48. Have a nice night

Hope you're feeling better.

[struggle4progress]

49. I Didn't Know The Gun Was Loaded

[Drahthaardogs]

52. Fuck that. With the way shit is going, we may NEED guns.

The country has changed

[Jakes Progress]

66. I'm angry too. But simplistic rage isn't helpful.

I canvassed for Obama with two African American Democrats who both own guns and shoot weekly. Like me, they would love it if you couldn't get guns. Actually, we would love it if idiots like the racists asshats at Charlottesville couldn't get guns. But they can. My friends know that they have a justifiable reason to own and know how to use firearms. They know that their families are at risk. They don't like supporting the gun industry so they buy used. But they aren't worried about the immigrants or the drug dealers. They sweat the hood-wearing knuckle draggers who can carry two AR-15s on their belts to church in our state.

They have about convinced me that they have a point. As shit gets worse, we might need to worry about the self-appointed brown shirts among us.

[Stinky The Clown]

73. It isn't simplistic rage. It's is a serious truth stated memorably.

Read upthread the several comments by Sid Dithers for a more expanded explanation.

[Jakes Progress]

80. Yep. It's simplistic.

And it ignores the reality of the situation.

You can pass out daisies to the klan members who bring their guns to blow up your yard signs (and you). Better would be to start regulating the guns that people have. All guns should be registered. Anyone with an unregistered gun goes to jail. Committing any crime with a gun calls for a mandatory 20 year sentence. All guns should have a ballistics test and owners of guns are responsible for any injuries, deaths, or crimes committed with those guns. The manufacturers of guns should be held accountable.

To get these laws, which many gun owners (including my two friends mentioned above) would approve, you need to have a nice majority in office. Blanket, incoherent rage not only doesn't help. It makes it almost impossible to get the majority.

So instead of fucking guns or fucking gun owners, fuck the idiots who take money from the NRA, fuck pissing off a large majority of gun owners who could help get that majority.

Or you can stamp your tiny feet and show how angry you are. See what that gets you.

[Devil Child]

72. The left must remain armed

We are facing fascists who dream of an American Reich and Pinochet style helicopter rides for liberals.

[Jakes Progress]

82. See this thread before you say no ones needs a gun.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210811676

[Lee-Lee]

90. Right back to you- good attitude to lose states like PA, NC, etc

I am a long time gun owner, firearms safety instructor and canceled carry/self defense instructor.

Probably 65% of my students are Democrats, because I make it a point to reach out to those communities who may not be comfortable with a white male instructor who are the majority.

My last class was all LGBT students who wanted to go through the CCW process and learn to be able to defend themselves in an increasingly hostile environment.

The class before that was all African American, getting CCWs for similar reasons.

So not only does your attitude alienate a lot of your typical white gun owner votes we need, it’s an attack on an increasingly large portion of the traditional democratic base.

Blaming all gun owners for the actions of one is as stupid as when the right wing blames all Muslims for a terrorist attack.

[Stinky The Clown]

91. To you and every other gun owner replying here or even reading . . . .

YOU have a fetish that is unhealthy.

YOU perpetuate the gun culture.

YOU support the NRA by buying guns from the companies that found it.

YOU are selfish in keeping your fetish fed.

I stand by what I said. Gun owners are the problem. You only want "sensible gun laws so as to keep ownership of these useless machines of death.

*YOU* is rhetorical, not necessarily you individually.

[Act_of_Reparation]

114. So sanctimonious.

Makes you feel pretty good, doesn't it? Empowered. Superior, even.

So, what's all this about "unhealthy" fetishes again?

[hunter]

120. Awesomely sanctimonious, don't you think?

As for pigs, speaking as someone with a very respectable university environmental biology degree, pigs are rather like coyotes.

Shooting them only makes them breed faster and it's the most invisible pig or coyote offspring who survive.

Ask Darwin.

The coyotes and wild pigs in my California homeland are damned near invisible, always a surprise when you see them. Even when you have talented dog friends.

I'm pretty sure the pigs are here to stay. They probably fill an ecological niche that was left vacant by the original maegafuana extinction event caused by humans first arrived in America.

Gun fetishists get off on fear, fear of who they might shoot. Disgusting.

I don't need guns because I don't let any human or animal I'd care to shoot live in my head.

The pigs are here to stay and honestly they're just not that tasty, even as well-made sausage. I've made pig sausage, stuffed in pig intestines. My great aunt gave me her sausage grinder, heavy early twentieth century indestructible nickel plated cast metal.

Here in reality, most U.S. Americans don't care enough about guns to bother owning one. Most U.S. Americans who happen to own guns have one or two safely locked away that they rarely think about except maybe when hunting season rolls around and their cousins call to shoot some overpopulated pigs, deer, or Eurasian doves. (There's no meat on native American hunting season doves, if you're asking my opinion... I'd rather fish.)

I look at gun fuck white America no different than the fourteen year old "urban" (dog whistle) gun gangsters I occasionally cross paths with.

If a gun is ever the answer, then it was a really stupid stupid question.

Speaking as a guy who has experienced gun violence and threats of gun violence firsthand, I'll tell you that once the guns come out everything is FUBAR.

Yep, I'm mocking white boy gun fetishes. Hell yes.

[Act_of_Reparation]

124. Not particularly, no.

I'm not disputing the wisdom of gun control, or denying the risks one takes when owning one. I'm questioning the wisdom of and motives behind assigning collective culpability.

[hunter]

131. If they're fearing loss of respect for gun fetishes then they are going to vote Republican anyways.

Doesn't matter me, pork in the freezer and long abandoned gun skilz dissing them.

Their fears, the lead poisoning and smokeless powder fumes that make them love their guns, all the killer bad guys and animals living rent-free in their heads, that's all important to them and won't be abandoned.

[Marengo]

122. Which of those don't apply to Lee-Lee?

[NCTraveler]

110. Fuck Guns. Fuck Gun Owners.

[Vinca]

118. Another day and an elderly lady in critical condition after a shooting.

In today's local paper. She was an 88 year old woman outside her house in Tunbridge, VT who was minding her own business. Authorities speculate that it was an idiot target shooting and not taking proper safety precautions. My husband and I had a similar thing happen once 30 years ago. We were standing on the side of our house at the time discussing plantings and someone shot buckshot into the trees above our heads. No idea who it was. Rural area, out in the boonies. We moved after local yokels who were deer hunting decided to sit in their car and shoot across our field at deer. Idiots. Total idiots.

[Alea]

119. Back at ya

and snickers

[canyondechelly]

148. I'm new to the forum and am a responsible gun owner.

I have been one all my life. My father taught me to shoot and to be responsible when handling a weapon. I also served in the US Marines and I am, these days, quite anti-war and think the US has government has been up to some very bad things overseas, support for Saudi Arabia and its affiliated terrorist proxy groups.

I have trouble making sense of the logic of giving up ones guns when we currently have an authoritarian commander-in-chief in office and a government that has had a runaway overseas war agenda for the past two decades. Are we supposed to give our guns up to Trump, of all people?

The reason that amendment is in the US Constitution is just in case for the very type of government we have today. My loyalty is to the Constitution first and foremost. On another note, I think we need to get these kids off psychoactive drugs and take a hard look at what is making people conduct mass shootings. These issues are societal and psychological in my opinion. They say a lot about the state of the nation.

[friendly_iconoclast]

149. Fuck your collective guilt-tripping. Change 'guns' and 'gun owners' to 'migrants'....

...and your frothing hatred would sound *exactly* like a Trumpet.

[Stinky The Clown]

150. I seem to be living rent free in many heads

The point of this and all my earlier threads is to point out how simple ownership enriches the gun makers and the NRA all for a tool that has as its sole purpose the taking of life.

If the income stream is reduced, and if gun ownership becomes like smoking and drunk driving, ours will be a better world.

No amount of rationale can change that fundamental point.

Have a swell day.

And since this is MY thread, I am going to self delete the OP after copying it to one more reply.

[Stinky The Clown]

151. Here is the OP

Fuck Guns. Fuck Gun Owners.

Another day. Another mass shooting.

Now i am self deleting the OP.