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Coventina

(26,867 posts)
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:05 PM Jul 2018

Medical Dilemma: My cardiologist says NSAIDS are killing me. But I have severe arthritis.

Last edited Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:47 PM - Edit history (1)

The arthritis isn't going anywhere, and I have to take, at minimum, 1800 mg of ibuprofen a day to live a normal life.

I can't have opioids, thanks to the "crisis."

So what do I do? Kill my heart to live pain free? Or suffer even worse daily to live?


Thanks a lot, stupid "opioid crisis."



on edit: fixed dumb typo.

167 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Medical Dilemma: My cardiologist says NSAIDS are killing me. But I have severe arthritis. (Original Post) Coventina Jul 2018 OP
Are you in a Medical Cannabis state? Raster Jul 2018 #1
My employer won't allow me to take medical MJ. Coventina Jul 2018 #3
OK, there are still topical preparations that might be effective. Raster Jul 2018 #7
CBD oil that contains no active THC components OUGHT to be ok, BUT it is NOT... YET hlthe2b Jul 2018 #10
The CBD I take only has .3% Heartstrings Jul 2018 #127
Not "legal" for Federal employees and military though. That's what I was referring to. hlthe2b Jul 2018 #128
i'm not recommending or suggesting anything but strangely Horse with no Name Jul 2018 #135
Try it. brokephibroke Jul 2018 #102
MMj makes me completely non-functional; it is definitely not a replacement for an opiate/opioid pain TheFrenchRazor Jul 2018 #165
What state are you in SarasotaDem Jul 2018 #2
Please see my reply above. Not an option, unfortunately. Coventina Jul 2018 #4
I have RA and other stuff. I use cannabis daily. NightWatcher Jul 2018 #5
The studies on NSAIDS have shown Naproxen to be the safest, though still some risk... hlthe2b Jul 2018 #6
For whatever weird reason, I'm allergic to Naproxen, even though I Coventina Jul 2018 #11
Can you alternate your NSAID with some Tylenol? pnwmom Jul 2018 #122
Tylenol has never done anything for me. Coventina Jul 2018 #123
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Habibi Jul 2018 #130
Yes! OTC Aleve (naproxen) @220 mg helps me a LOT!! Just once a day for my osteo aches... NurseJackie Jul 2018 #16
Ditto - also, icing knees after strenuous exercise helps. spooky3 Jul 2018 #43
Defintely a YMMV thing. Ms. Toad Jul 2018 #84
the studies I am referring to were those linking NSAIDs with Cardiovascular risk... hlthe2b Jul 2018 #87
I know of the general risks - Ms. Toad Jul 2018 #92
Yes, Naproxen is poison for me. Yet I can take ibuprofen all day long Coventina Jul 2018 #96
Have you discussed your dilimma with the cardiologist....... WillowTree Jul 2018 #8
He wants me to get multiple major surgeries. Coventina Jul 2018 #12
I have had all those surgeries over the last 3 years, and am fine now. MoonRiver Jul 2018 #69
Those surgeries have kept me out of a wheelchair. Croney Jul 2018 #81
Goodness, Coventina, get the surgeries. Mr Nay has had a back operation and both hips have Nay Jul 2018 #131
I had a right hip replacement 5 years ago. 3catwoman3 Jul 2018 #149
What about area51 Jul 2018 #9
Interesting, I'll give the cocoa a try. I do take the Glucosamine/Chondroitin combo. Coventina Jul 2018 #15
Glucosamine, Chondroitin, Hyalronic Acid, Circulmin [tumeric], and empedocles Jul 2018 #17
Yes, I take all of those. And the exercise as well. Coventina Jul 2018 #24
Cut down on the carbohydrates as much as possible nolabels Jul 2018 #72
Absolutely - Ms. Toad Jul 2018 #88
I just started on a keto like diet. I don't miss sugars at all. I feel full. Because applegrove Jul 2018 #151
Are Tumor Necrosis Factor Inhibitors (infusions) for severe RA safer than NSAIDS? LeftInTX Jul 2018 #13
My arthritis is osteo, not RA. Coventina Jul 2018 #18
They won't work for OA..... LeftInTX Jul 2018 #28
As much as I dislike all the natural drug free ways to handle severe arthritis and I braddy Jul 2018 #14
I apologize, I'm not entirely sure what you are asking? Coventina Jul 2018 #20
Fully committing to stuff like this since you are being shut out of more simple help (drugs). braddy Jul 2018 #27
Well, I could try, but since I have a full-time job I have to be functional. Coventina Jul 2018 #32
Drug tests look for THC not CBD Phoenix61 Jul 2018 #19
Can you get that without a medical MJ card? Coventina Jul 2018 #26
My mom has good luck with CBD oil. There's lots to choose from on Amazon. Patterson Jul 2018 #60
Absolutely! Phoenix61 Jul 2018 #70
... Major Nikon Jul 2018 #118
Try CBD oil... it is legal in all 50 states (I've been told) no THC in it lapfog_1 Jul 2018 #21
I'm about to try that for my knees. Glucosamine just ain't doing it Roland99 Jul 2018 #90
it's very expensive and has minimal pain relieving effect, IMO. nt TheFrenchRazor Jul 2018 #166
You might be H2O Man Jul 2018 #22
I'll look into it., thanks! n/t Coventina Jul 2018 #29
Another helpful option, H2O Man Jul 2018 #75
Yes, taking the tumeric. Coventina Jul 2018 #80
is that also known as wild lettuce? Ed.: Yes -- just googled it RandomAccess Jul 2018 #74
Yes, it is. H2O Man Jul 2018 #76
I updated my post several times -- RandomAccess Jul 2018 #78
I've been able H2O Man Jul 2018 #82
LOL -- RandomAccess Jul 2018 #100
I just clipped H2O Man Jul 2018 #108
so how do you prepare them? RandomAccess Jul 2018 #109
I dry them, H2O Man Jul 2018 #111
I wish I were better at identifying herbs so I could wildcraft some RandomAccess Jul 2018 #112
They grow well H2O Man Jul 2018 #115
ROFL RandomAccess Jul 2018 #116
Proofe you haven't H2O Man Jul 2018 #117
Oh my! RandomAccess Jul 2018 #120
What's up with those old injuries coming back? hunter Jul 2018 #106
Right! H2O Man Jul 2018 #110
I quit taking ibuprofen PatSeg Jul 2018 #23
Thanks! I will look into that. Coventina Jul 2018 #34
I am surprised PatSeg Jul 2018 #93
IV Mag postpartum is usually given for preeclampsia Horse with no Name Jul 2018 #138
I'm quite sure her blood pressure was high PatSeg Jul 2018 #146
My doctor says Magnesium Citrate. hunter Jul 2018 #107
That is a laxative. I wouldn't recommend that. n/t Horse with no Name Jul 2018 #137
Heh. Maybe my doctor thinks I'm full of shit. hunter Jul 2018 #142
thats always the bomb I suggest to constipated patients Horse with no Name Jul 2018 #143
I was given Pennsaid (which is diclofenac sodium) cream Horse with no Name Jul 2018 #136
I use magnesium oil and haven't noticed any help with pain RandomAccess Jul 2018 #79
That's too bad PatSeg Jul 2018 #95
Not for pain, per se RandomAccess Jul 2018 #103
I'd never heard of Arnica gel PatSeg Jul 2018 #113
Defnitely give it a try RandomAccess Jul 2018 #114
Thank you PatSeg Jul 2018 #145
I was just using some of the last bit of a really good RandomAccess Jul 2018 #148
magnesium oxide is usually the best preparation for muscle cramps/pain Horse with no Name Jul 2018 #140
Oh, okay. I'll keep that in mind. RandomAccess Jul 2018 #144
I mostly rely on herbal remedies cally Jul 2018 #25
Yep, I guzzle the tumeric and garlic as well. Coventina Jul 2018 #35
Kratom. Order from: JanetLovesObama Jul 2018 #30
If she works for the government, Kratom can be on several agency lists of site banned substances. haele Jul 2018 #77
Try this for three weeks. Baitball Blogger Jul 2018 #31
Thanks. I've been taking the tumeric for a while now. Coventina Jul 2018 #41
My mother got opioids for a similar situation JenniferJuniper Jul 2018 #33
Here in AZ, it's almost impossible to get anything beyond Tramadol. Coventina Jul 2018 #45
That's the drug I was trying to remember - Ms. Toad Jul 2018 #94
Vitamin D3 supplements ? MarvinGardens Jul 2018 #36
Thanks, yes, I've been taking that as well. Coventina Jul 2018 #46
Fish oil has helped with my level 4 osteoarthritis in my knees minoan Jul 2018 #37
Accupuncture Runningdawg Jul 2018 #38
Thanks. I'll look into it. Coventina Jul 2018 #47
Most of the CBD oil sold OTC in TX health food stores and head shops are snake oil. LeftInTX Jul 2018 #39
Taking NSAIDS is one of the best ways to end up in kidney failure sweetroxie Jul 2018 #40
I'm sorry that the drug war has put you in this situation. Crunchy Frog Jul 2018 #42
Thanks, I will. Coventina Jul 2018 #55
I can't take NSAIDS either -- I take Gabapentin & Tylenol -- Gabepentin whathehell Jul 2018 #44
Thanks! I'll ask about the gabapentin Coventina Jul 2018 #49
You're very welcome! whathehell Jul 2018 #59
You may find it worth it - Ms. Toad Jul 2018 #97
You need a pain specialist, Coventina. Hortensis Jul 2018 #48
Thanks! Well, I'm allegedly seeing one of the best there is in the Phoenix area. Coventina Jul 2018 #52
It's shocking that treating pain has been back-burnered Hortensis Jul 2018 #65
You may be pleasantly surprised about surgery and amount pain control - Ms. Toad Jul 2018 #98
Please be careful with the ibuprofen csziggy Jul 2018 #50
Thank you! Coventina Jul 2018 #54
Is your pain localized in certain areas of your body or is it all over? smirkymonkey Jul 2018 #119
My GI doesn't let me take ibuprofen or naproxen. I survive on Loratabs and demtenjeep Jul 2018 #58
Have you thought about trying a Low Carb or Ketogenic Diet? Grammy23 Jul 2018 #51
Thanks! I will look into that!! Coventina Jul 2018 #53
On YouTube Grammy23 Jul 2018 #57
And if you decide to do that -- RandomAccess Jul 2018 #83
Look into Organic Sulfur Crystals thinkingagain Jul 2018 #56
I know it sounds crazy Beantighe Jul 2018 #61
NOT crazy... Sugar is a highly pro-inflammatory component of diet. hlthe2b Jul 2018 #62
Not crazy - I'm already eating near-keto for diabetes control. Ms. Toad Jul 2018 #99
Sugar was causing a severe skin darkening problem for me. Blue_true Jul 2018 #129
Meloxicam Bayard Jul 2018 #63
I was taking meloxicam for my osteoarthritis and getting about the same result ooky Jul 2018 #86
I have psoriatic arthritis and WhiteTara Jul 2018 #64
I take Otezla for mine Horse with no Name Jul 2018 #141
I'm in similar straits. What specifically are you seeing the cardiologist for? nolabear Jul 2018 #66
Suspected small vessel disease, not yet confirmed. Coventina Jul 2018 #68
Just keep an eye on your blood pressure. Ms. Toad Jul 2018 #101
My bp is remarkably good. Apparently it's genetic. nolabear Jul 2018 #104
osteo biflex advanced triple strength eShirl Jul 2018 #67
WFPB Doremus Jul 2018 #71
You may want to consider Voltaren question everything Jul 2018 #73
Two things: no_hypocrisy Jul 2018 #85
Doing the MSM, glucosamine & Chondroitin. Coventina Jul 2018 #89
Try to find an antiinflammatory diet Rainngirl Jul 2018 #91
Has your physician suggested one of the biggest logical? If not perhaps you should ask still_one Jul 2018 #105
Try arnica and lidocaine gel Meowmee Jul 2018 #121
Have you tried a TENS device, like physical therapists use? Individuals can purchase them. n/t pnwmom Jul 2018 #124
Yes, it works while I wear it, but doesn't do anything once I take it off. Coventina Jul 2018 #125
Is there a reason you can't wear it for half the day, and use NSAIDS the other half? pnwmom Jul 2018 #132
Well, I couldn't really wear it to work, it's too bulky. Coventina Jul 2018 #158
I suffer from gout. Started at a young age. Blue_true Jul 2018 #126
RA Under control Greyhead Jul 2018 #133
this is a very relevant topic at work Horse with no Name Jul 2018 #134
I was on naproxen for 5 years mcar Jul 2018 #139
I'm sorry to read this, Coventina Niagara Jul 2018 #147
I looked up hypnosis for pain relief and... 3catwoman3 Jul 2018 #150
there are lots of different nsaids Mosby Jul 2018 #152
The cardiologist said ANY NSAID contributes to heart disease / stroke / liver failure Coventina Jul 2018 #159
I'm in a similar boat The empressof all Jul 2018 #153
I took that much I ibuprofen for fibromyalgia and wound up with a perforated ulcer. hedda_foil Jul 2018 #154
I'm taking 4 tramadol daily. Coventina Jul 2018 #157
There's a related drug called Ketoprofin that is a lot less destructive than ibuprofin. hedda_foil Jul 2018 #160
I'll ask! Thanks! Coventina Jul 2018 #161
You're very welcome, Coventina. I hope the lead pans out. hedda_foil Jul 2018 #162
i would kill for tramadol; i can't even get that. nt TheFrenchRazor Jul 2018 #167
Pure EMU oil is anti inflammatory marlakay Jul 2018 #155
Just wanted to say thank you - really informative thread Justice Jul 2018 #156
Kick for a fellow chronic pain sufferer. Poiuyt Jul 2018 #163
i feel you; it's total BS. if the government is going to prevent me from obtaining relief from my pa TheFrenchRazor Jul 2018 #164

hlthe2b

(101,728 posts)
10. CBD oil that contains no active THC components OUGHT to be ok, BUT it is NOT... YET
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:17 PM
Jul 2018

Expect some court appeals in the future as a recent court case putting CBD on an equal footing with medical marijauna is not only indefensible but has created lots of other catch 22 kind of problems.

I would stay engaged on this issue....I see it changing pretty soon.

Heartstrings

(7,349 posts)
127. The CBD I take only has .3%
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 07:55 PM
Jul 2018

active THC. It is sold legally here in WI, medicinal marijuana is not legal.

This has helped my Chronic Migraine and Restless Leg Syndromes, anxiety and sleeplessness (especially these last few years with Wankmaggot in office) immensely,to the point I no longer need to take big pharma poison as frequently.

Highly recommend checking it out!

hlthe2b

(101,728 posts)
128. Not "legal" for Federal employees and military though. That's what I was referring to.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 08:02 PM
Jul 2018

It is stupid (CBD containing no THC)-- no debate from me on that, but a court case recently validated the stupidity.

Horse with no Name

(33,956 posts)
135. i'm not recommending or suggesting anything but strangely
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 08:26 PM
Jul 2018

the cbd oil sold in the essential oil sections of some retailers is the same thing that is being sold in states that it is legal....

 

TheFrenchRazor

(2,116 posts)
165. MMj makes me completely non-functional; it is definitely not a replacement for an opiate/opioid pain
Sat Jul 21, 2018, 03:57 AM
Jul 2018

pain reliever.

hlthe2b

(101,728 posts)
6. The studies on NSAIDS have shown Naproxen to be the safest, though still some risk...
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:11 PM
Jul 2018

Talk to your cardiologist about possibly using the lowest dose possible (e.g., 220 mg) and only once/day. If you take low dose aspirin as prevention against stroke and MI, you should definitely stagger them (e.g., naproxen in the morning, aspirin 81 mg late at night) as aspirin effects on clotting are somewhat inactivated by the naproxen.

If even that is a "non-starter" for you, based on your other health issues, you might look into alternative therapies, including acupuncture and cold laser. Time spent swimming can help. Walking, though difficult at first, can become easier and beneficial to keeping arthritic joints "lubricated".

Good luck.

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
11. For whatever weird reason, I'm allergic to Naproxen, even though I
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:18 PM
Jul 2018

can take ibuprofen with no problems!

I do take the aspirin, but my cardiologist was adamant that I need to get my IB use under 1000 mg a day. It's just not feasible.

I take yoga classes and practice meditation. I'll look into alternative therapies, but I don't know what I can afford if they are not covered by insurance. My insurance company has already said I can't go to physical therapy anymore because it's only management and not curative.

Overall, I am pretty active, I bike, I swim, I hike (although my Grand Canyon treks are behind me). But I just can't manage the pain without the IB.

Habibi

(3,597 posts)
130. I'm so sorry you're going through this.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 08:17 PM
Jul 2018

I have Crohn's disease and have been warned by my gastro against taking ibuprofen. Yet, that is all my oncologist would give me after cancer surgery, despite my pleas.

See if you have a "community acupuncture" clinic in your area. Mine charges on a sliding scale, around $20 per treatment for the lowest cost. I've found it helpful for all kinds of issues: Crohn's, chemo fatigue, arthritis pain.

Hugs, and good luck to you.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
16. Yes! OTC Aleve (naproxen) @220 mg helps me a LOT!! Just once a day for my osteo aches...
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:23 PM
Jul 2018

... and when I had minor outpatient surgery, the doctor Rx'd Naproxen @ 500mg that worked fine w/o opioids for me. With PT and reasonable activity, I may be able to avoid knee replacement surgery. We'll see.

Obviously, after my minor procedure, the goal was to manage my pain to tolerable levels during the recovery and healing period, with no expectations of eliminating pain entirely (ie: as if the surgery never happened.)

Anyway... I just wanted to reply and give a quick confirmation that Naproxen (for some people) is a good and effective alternative to aspirin or ibuprofen.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
84. Defintely a YMMV thing.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:50 PM
Jul 2018

Naproxen does nothing for me in terms of pain relief. I was put on it for an extended period of time in an attempt to reduce inflammation, but had several headaches while on it that ibprofen would normally have taken care of.

In addition, it caused ulcers throughout my GI tract - literally from mouth to anus and everywhere in between - which none of the NSAIDS I've tried have - even though I have been on both aspirin and ibuprofen for equivalent doses & periods of time.

Fortunately, as long as I only need it occasionally, ibuprofen works and is relatively benign (for extended periods of time, it causes me high blood pressure).

hlthe2b

(101,728 posts)
87. the studies I am referring to were those linking NSAIDs with Cardiovascular risk...
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:54 PM
Jul 2018

Any of the class can lead to GI ulceration and bleeding, especially at high doses.

It sounds to me like you have a hypersensitivity/allergy to Naproxen. Clearly not the drug for you.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
92. I know of the general risks -
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 04:06 PM
Jul 2018

but despite similar doses over similar periods of time - the only one that ACTUALLY creates ulceration in my body is Naproxen. That's why the YMMV tag.

For many people the ulceration risk is the same across all NSAIDs - but becuase it was an unexpected experience for me (despite decades of experience with other NSAIDS, when I was more on them than off, both before and after the Naproxen period), it's worth a warning that even if it is a better choice, from a cardiovascular perspective, it may be a worse choice for other reasons, and that your body's response to the other known NSAIDS risks may be dramatically different with Naproxen.

Ibuprofen is definitely a cardiovascular risk for me, if I am on it for an extended period of time. My normally low blood pressure (108-112/40-60) increased to 180+/80+ the last time I was on ibuprofen for an extended period of time. Once I noticed it and tracked down the culprit, it went back to where it belongs. I can currently take it for a few days with no ill effect, but no more extended ibuprofen treatment for me.

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
96. Yes, Naproxen is poison for me. Yet I can take ibuprofen all day long
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 04:12 PM
Jul 2018

and have no discernible problems (although it does raise my blood pressure, like with you).

But, now my cardiologist wants me to stop taking it.

*sigh*

WillowTree

(5,325 posts)
8. Have you discussed your dilimma with the cardiologist.......
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:15 PM
Jul 2018

.......and asked her/him to suggest an alternative?

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
12. He wants me to get multiple major surgeries.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:21 PM
Jul 2018

Like replace both hips, get my spine fused, etc.

However, I have watched my dad get all those surgeries and it hasn't helped him any!
He still is in enormous pain all the time.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
69. I have had all those surgeries over the last 3 years, and am fine now.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:08 PM
Jul 2018

But I only have minor arthritis in one finger, nothing like you're enduring. I lived with monstrous pain before my hip replacements (spinal fusion did nothing to help), so I know what you're dealing with.

Croney

(4,646 posts)
81. Those surgeries have kept me out of a wheelchair.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:43 PM
Jul 2018

Both hips replaced 20 years ago, shoulder three years ago, knee a year ago, plus surgeries on hand and foot. Arthritis LOVES me and wants to devour me but I refuse to lose this battle. My motto is -- if it's broke, fix it. I'm 73 and I ran a 5k last week. I hope you find relief, but I just want to put in a good word for surgery, in case it's an option.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
131. Goodness, Coventina, get the surgeries. Mr Nay has had a back operation and both hips have
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 08:19 PM
Jul 2018

been replaced due to arthritis. It's not a picnic to go through the surgeries, but he's walking around and enjoying life now, when before he was headed for a wheelchair.

3catwoman3

(23,815 posts)
149. I had a right hip replacement 5 years ago.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 10:46 PM
Jul 2018

It was a piece of cake. Did stairs the next day.

I was back at work 6 weeks later. I probably could have gone back sooner, but i decided to milk it.

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
15. Interesting, I'll give the cocoa a try. I do take the Glucosamine/Chondroitin combo.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:23 PM
Jul 2018

I also take marine collagen, and other various supplements that are supposed to help.

empedocles

(15,751 posts)
17. Glucosamine, Chondroitin, Hyalronic Acid, Circulmin [tumeric], and
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:24 PM
Jul 2018

as much exercise as you can handle, to get the blood circulation and body self-healing capacity up.

Works for me. MD told me, 'arthritis doesn't get better', in recommending a 2nd knee replacement for me. I found research that arthritis is reversible. 9 months of high intensity interval [HIIT] exercise later [mostly on low impact arc machine, 30 minutes 5x/ week], my arthritic knee, bone spurs and all, felt better than my artificial knee.

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
24. Yes, I take all of those. And the exercise as well.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:28 PM
Jul 2018

And, it definitely does help! I have bone spurs on both heels that no longer bother me at all.
But, the hips and back hurt no matter what.

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
72. Cut down on the carbohydrates as much as possible
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:19 PM
Jul 2018

Many foods are loaded with carbohydrates. Carbohydrates feed many conditions that progress with increased inflammation and it's not just the sugars. I am on a type of keto diet (low carbohydrates) to keep MRSA infections at bay. I found it also helps the joints and ligaments mostly be pain-free. I had a few joints with mild arthritis but not feeling anything with them now. This type of diet actually helps on a lot of things

(snip)
What is a Keto Diet?
overview of keto diet


A keto diet is well known for being a low carb diet, where the body produces ketones in the liver to be used as energy. It’s referred to as many different names – ketogenic diet, low carb diet, low carb high fat (LCHF), etc.

When you eat something high in carbs, your body will produce glucose and insulin.

Glucose is the easiest molecule for your body to convert and use as energy so that it will be chosen over any other energy source.
Insulin is produced to process the glucose in your bloodstream by taking it around the body.
Since the glucose is being used as a primary energy, your fats are not needed and are therefore stored. Typically on a normal, higher carbohydrate diet, the body will use glucose as the main form of energy. By lowering the intake of carbs, the body is induced into a state known as ketosis.

Ketosis is a natural process the body initiates to help us survive when food intake is low. During this state, we produce ketones, which are produced from the breakdown of fats in the liver.
(snip)
https://www.ruled.me/guide-keto-diet/

After being on it for about three months, I have contemplated that last statement a little and speculate it's not really a survival mechanism but more of a natural from when we were not farmers ten thousand or more years ago. All of these high intakes of carbohydrates are unnatural and our body does not do a good job accommodating them

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
88. Absolutely -
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:54 PM
Jul 2018

I am on a near-keto diet to control diabetes. I wouldn't have gone on this kind of diet to lose weight, or for pain reduction. But I have discovered that an added benefit is a dramatic reduction in pain (currently - rotator cuff pain), and an increase in alertness (that is more likely associated with lowering blood glucose).

applegrove

(118,020 posts)
151. I just started on a keto like diet. I don't miss sugars at all. I feel full. Because
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 11:30 PM
Jul 2018

i eat good fats like eggs, avocados, olive oil, milk, chicken, turkey fish, seafood and nuts and seeds i am always full and satisfied. I don't snack. I use lots of flavours like Sun dried tomatoes, balsamic vinagar, cheese and hummus (garlic and lemon) or a few berries. I eat sausages and chicken salad and fry 2 eggs in butter(I break them up in the frying pan) and add that on top piles of organic baby spinach. I actually go through a family sized baby spinach container myself in 5 days. For breakfast I have steel cut oats and no sugar Greek yogurt with pumpkin seeds (pumpkin seeds are the best). I seriously was not eating right before. I feel great now. I never thought I could do it. But I love me the vegetables now (grated real parmesan cheese on everything as a garnish). The only sugar I get are in the few berries I eat, the one pear I have every few days and the balsamic vinegar. Oh and I'm allowed two squares of 90% cocoa chocolate every few days (the cocoa is an antiinflamatory). It totally changes your gut and I would imagine your immune system. Worth a try. It is painless. I eat tons of veggies, a normal sized protein and some fat at each meal. I drink soda stream water with fizz and a splash of blueberry juice. I still cheat with diet coke for caffeine but hope to transition to tea when it gets cooler in the fall. I have jars of coconut, pumpkin seeds, pecans and cashews to toss over my meals. Good luck to you. Scientific American did a story on how immunity is an important system in your body this month: the seventh sense. I have not read it yet but it looks good. Might help with arthritis.

LeftInTX

(24,554 posts)
13. Are Tumor Necrosis Factor Inhibitors (infusions) for severe RA safer than NSAIDS?
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:22 PM
Jul 2018

Enbrel, Remicade etc.

LeftInTX

(24,554 posts)
28. They won't work for OA.....
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:31 PM
Jul 2018

My rheumatologist still prescribes opioids.

I've got OA, Fibromyalgia and Degenerative Disease.

One thing that helps me is Gabapentin and sleep meds (Doxepin and Clonopin). They control pain better than opioids, although Doxepin is not recommended with heart conditions. Doxepin is an old tricyclic anti-depressant. SSRIs are safer. (I can't take SSRIs due to seizure threshold stuff)

 

braddy

(3,585 posts)
14. As much as I dislike all the natural drug free ways to handle severe arthritis and I
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:22 PM
Jul 2018

personally endure the crippling pain to avoid them (out of male laziness, not philosophy), have you tried fully committing to them and seeing if that will enable you to endure?

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
32. Well, I could try, but since I have a full-time job I have to be functional.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:34 PM
Jul 2018

All the alternative methods have cut me back from 2400 mg. of IB a day to 1800 mg per day.
Every time I dip below that, I pay a heavy price.

Phoenix61

(16,952 posts)
19. Drug tests look for THC not CBD
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:25 PM
Jul 2018

CBD is very beneficial for arthritis pain. It can be used as a gel or taken orally. Look for products that are 100% THC free. With a little research you should be able to find something that works for you without risking your job.

Patterson

(1,525 posts)
60. My mom has good luck with CBD oil. There's lots to choose from on Amazon.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 02:07 PM
Jul 2018

Try to get some that says it has no THC.

lapfog_1

(29,166 posts)
21. Try CBD oil... it is legal in all 50 states (I've been told) no THC in it
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:26 PM
Jul 2018

I have to say that it didn't do much for me (migraine) but some people swear by it (especially arthritis sufferers).

I would use the tincture and not the e-cig juice... might work better.

Can't hurt to try.

H2O Man

(73,323 posts)
22. You might be
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:27 PM
Jul 2018

interested in a plant called "opium lettuce," that grows wild, just about everywhere. If you "google" it, you will find out more.

I deal with chronic pain daily. I'm not interested in taking pills. I'm good with the use of pot, but find that making one cup of tea from this plant gives me a relatively pain-free say, where I can accomplish things.

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
80. Yes, taking the tumeric.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:40 PM
Jul 2018

I've whittled down the IB through a bunch of alternative approaches, but I still can't get below 1800 mg. per day.

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
74. is that also known as wild lettuce? Ed.: Yes -- just googled it
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:24 PM
Jul 2018

I was just reading the other day that it's outstanding for pain -- I'd never heard of that, despite my mucking around with herbal remedies for decades now.

Ed.: You can buy tincture of it. I'm going to try it myself for other types of pain I live with.

Ed.: I just put it in my Cart -- the reviews on Amazon are quite interesting
https://www.amazon.com/Lettuce-Extract-Natural-Dropper-Top-Lactuca/product-reviews/B00AROH0TS/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_show_all_btm?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews

There are other manufacturers -- I just happened on this one.

H2O Man

(73,323 posts)
76. Yes, it is.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:30 PM
Jul 2018

I try to take turmeric daily, and drink the lettuce tea on the worst days. It's a curious experience, getting old is. When I was young, no pain or injury held me back. Boxed numerous times with a broken hand, once with a sprained ankle. But now, all those old injuries -- plus a cluster of new ones -- visit me daily. I prefer natural plant-based relief. It makes being trapped in this old bag of bones a little easier.

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
78. I updated my post several times --
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:38 PM
Jul 2018

Googled it, then went and found it on Amazon and have a bottle of tincture in my cart. Looks very good.

I hear ya about aging and pain. If I'm doing anything but sitting very comfortably or lying down, I'm in pain --- and sometimes even then. It's not arthritis for me (well, some of it is), but some sort of problem due to a big handful of genetic mutations. Unfortunately, those same genetic problems sabotage my entire methylation (detoxification) cycle, AND make it inadvisable for me to take turmeric, and many, many, many of my beloved herbs that I had used for so many years. All the liver detox herbs cause me problems, as well as herbs like red clover leaf, and so many others. It's heartbreaking. I'm hoping this one will not be yet another wonderful herb that kicks up my methylation problems.

H2O Man

(73,323 posts)
82. I've been able
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:43 PM
Jul 2018

to pick a good supplies in the late summer, that last me through the year. But since my daughter brought home a couple rabbits -- which has resulted in lots of rabbits running around my property -- I will likely have to buy some myself. I appreciate the link you posted above!

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
100. LOL --
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 04:31 PM
Jul 2018

well rabbits gotta eat too!

There's also tincture. I was going to get the capsules, then found I'd have to pay for postage AND wait longer. Switched to the tincture to try it NOW. (Love Amazon Prime.)

H2O Man

(73,323 posts)
108. I just clipped
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 05:56 PM
Jul 2018

five big plants; they will all grow back again at least once or twice this year. Another I planned to get had been hit up by the rabbits.

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
109. so how do you prepare them?
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 06:00 PM
Jul 2018

Do you dry them? Make infusions? Dry and tincture? Tincture them fresh?

H2O Man

(73,323 posts)
111. I dry them,
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 06:02 PM
Jul 2018

and make tea. I use fresh ones for tea, when I have them. Tea seems to work best for me.

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
112. I wish I were better at identifying herbs so I could wildcraft some
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 06:07 PM
Jul 2018

the only ones I can identify FOR SURE are dandelion (duh) and plantain (which is one of my very favorites anyway). I guess I could add violet and oh yes, queen anne's lace and goldenrod when they're blooming.

I've seen photos of wild lettuce on the internet, and from that I'm sure I've seen it in the wild -- but I sure wouldn't trust myself enough to harvest them.

So I envy you.

H2O Man

(73,323 posts)
115. They grow well
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 06:19 PM
Jul 2018

in gravel, and are often found along creeks. Many decades ago, I assisted an elderly Native American man who collected plants locally. Not the lettuce, though. I hesitate to mention one called "black Indian hemp" .....if harvested at the correct time, it is very strong. It was used to prepare people for surgery in parts of the old Soviet Union, as a type grows there. Tried it but once, many years ago. It's not good if you have to do something as complicated as remember your own name. (grin)

H2O Man

(73,323 posts)
117. Proofe you haven't
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 06:38 PM
Jul 2018

tried it today -- if you had, you'd be limited to staring straight ahead for 8-12 hours. I can't remember if I was even able to blink.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
106. What's up with those old injuries coming back?
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 05:45 PM
Jul 2018

I shattered a few bones in my foot when I was younger and the doctor recommended surgery. He said I'd regret it if I didn't.

Me, being unbreakable at the time, I walked it off, and no, it didn't hurt at all for the longest time.

Now it hurts like hell some days, and yes I do regret not having it surgically repaired when I was young and unbreakable.

H2O Man

(73,323 posts)
110. Right!
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 06:01 PM
Jul 2018

The only advantage is we don't need the Weather Channel to know what's coming up.

A few years back, I broke my collar bone falling o0n ice. I set it myself -- or thought I did -- and held it in place with Icy-Hot tape. Eventually, one of my doctor's saw it, noting it had healed wrong. Being that I'm still as stubborn and stupid as I was decades ago, when I broke a bone in my foot (stuck out through the skin), I did the Icy-Hot treatment again.

A few months later, when a bee stung my on the eye (not the eye lid), my doctor's first question was, "Didn't try Icy-Hot on this, huh?" Seemed a cruel joke, but I deserved it.

PatSeg

(46,804 posts)
23. I quit taking ibuprofen
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:28 PM
Jul 2018

because it had caused kidney damage. Now I use magnesium oil or magnesium gel and it really works better than NSAIDS. It also helps if you take magnesium capsules orally if you can tolerate them.

I just bought a new gel that is high absorption called MgSport Recovery Gel and it works better than other brands I've tried. You can get it at Amazon.

PatSeg

(46,804 posts)
93. I am surprised
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 04:09 PM
Jul 2018

as it is a fairly common treatment for pain these days. Someone I know was given magnesium intravenously after she had a cesarean section for pain and it worked as well, if not better than medication.

Horse with no Name

(33,956 posts)
138. IV Mag postpartum is usually given for preeclampsia
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 08:39 PM
Jul 2018

if she had high blood pressure and muscle cramps, that would definitely help that.

PatSeg

(46,804 posts)
146. I'm quite sure her blood pressure was high
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 10:28 PM
Jul 2018

That was one of the reason why they took the babies a few weeks early. It left her extremely relaxed and rather high.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
142. Heh. Maybe my doctor thinks I'm full of shit.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 09:08 PM
Jul 2018


As a dietary supplement doses are much smaller than the laxative dose, 100 mg, rather than 15,000 mg or more for the full laxative effect.

Magnesium gluconate is another suggestion for arthritis.

Magnesium oxide, which is cheap and sold everywhere as a magnesium supplement, doesn't have the same bioavailibility.

Horse with no Name

(33,956 posts)
136. I was given Pennsaid (which is diclofenac sodium) cream
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 08:36 PM
Jul 2018

some people swear by it but I didn't get any relief.

Some of our patients swear by the Lidocaine patches too but I have never tried them--and our Midlevel providers said you can get them in bulk on Amazon for fairly cheap.

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
79. I use magnesium oil and haven't noticed any help with pain
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:39 PM
Jul 2018

Also take a liquid magnesium chloride.

PatSeg

(46,804 posts)
95. That's too bad
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 04:12 PM
Jul 2018

I've used it mostly for cramps in my feet and legs, but I've also used it for backaches and neck pain. There are quite a few different kinds out there and some seem to work better than others. Meanwhile, your body is getting more magnesium, something that many people are deficit in.

Does the liquid magnesium help you at all?

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
103. Not for pain, per se
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 04:36 PM
Jul 2018

I take it because, as you point out, most Americans are magnesium deficient, AND all muscles use it including the heart.

For milder pain I use a product called Arnica gel (shhhh, it's a homeopathic product -- don't tell anyone). It's wonderful for bruises, including preventing a bruise if you bang yourself somehow. And it's great for some other types of pain as well. When I get a crick in my neck, or sometimes when I have "restless legs" at night I might try it. Or when my hands or arms are crampy from too much mousing around or typing. Would NOT be without it. Also good for arthritis, I think, but maybe not real severe stuff.

PatSeg

(46,804 posts)
113. I'd never heard of Arnica gel
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 06:10 PM
Jul 2018

I'll have to check it out. The magnesium gel doesn't always help with restless legs. I know people think all homeopathic remedies are bogus, but I've had luck with some of them. When you are in pain or discomfort, you will try almost anything and often the conventional remedies don't work or have too many side effects.

Thank you!

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
114. Defnitely give it a try
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 06:19 PM
Jul 2018

The thing about homeopathics is that it's "energy medicine." (Think: ch'i or qi.) I find it will work on some things, and not others. But arnica is an AMAZING product, really. Try it the next time you hurt yourself and are sure you'll bruise. Get it applied quick, if possible. But even after a bruise has formed, it will speed the healing.

You'll have to let me know how it works for you.

PatSeg

(46,804 posts)
145. Thank you
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 10:25 PM
Jul 2018

I put in my cart on Amazon. I'll let you know how it works.

I make a lot of my own creams and ointments with essential oils and natural ingredients. I noticed that customers were raving about Narayan Gel, so I checked out the ingredients and made my own. Using it on your temples helps get rid of headaches. I made some for a friend and she uses it on her knees. It is great to get away from NSAIDS and many of the natural remedies work better. Meanwhile, I'm not taking any chances with my kidneys.

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
148. I was just using some of the last bit of a really good
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 10:44 PM
Jul 2018

healing herbal skin cream I made and took a look at my label to see what was in it. I have to make some more. I haven't done much of that for the last number of years, but I sure could use some more of that cream.

I'll have to check Narayan Gel out. Oh -- camphor and menthol, clove and eucalyptus. Yep, good stuff. I just use Tiger Balm that I buy at the healthfood store.

But I also use a really good essential + emu oil blend called Essential Relief. My hips or upper thighs sometimes give me problems when I try to sleep (kinda similar to "restless leg" I guess, but not exactly), and that does the trick. I also use it to get my out-of-whack back to go back into shape saving me a trip to the chiropractor!! It has wintergreen and other than emu oil I don't know (offhand) what else. Very good product.

cally

(21,589 posts)
25. I mostly rely on herbal remedies
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:29 PM
Jul 2018

I like zyflamend or combination of anti inflammatory diet and include lots of raw turmeric ginger and garlic. I control chronic back pain

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
35. Yep, I guzzle the tumeric and garlic as well.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:37 PM
Jul 2018

As I said upthread: all of these alternative methods have allowed me to cut back from 2400 mg of IB a day to 1800.
But once I dip below that, the pain spirals out of control.

 

JanetLovesObama

(548 posts)
30. Kratom. Order from:
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:31 PM
Jul 2018

Purkratom.com. I have severe back pain and I love this stuff. Not a drug at all. just pain relief. And you will sleep like a baby every night.

haele

(12,581 posts)
77. If she works for the government, Kratom can be on several agency lists of site banned substances.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:35 PM
Jul 2018

If her agency has it on the list of banned substances - whether or not they're legal, some natural medicinal substances are grounds for termination. Some companies also ban the use of Kratom and other natural supplements/medicinals that can remain in effect over the work day.

Haele

Baitball Blogger

(46,575 posts)
31. Try this for three weeks.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:32 PM
Jul 2018

My symptoms of arthritis were beginning to set a debilitating stage for me, and then I took these pills and I have a very active life.

Took about three weeks to four weeks to get rid of the tendinitis in my knee and I noticed around three weeks that the arthritic pain in my hands had subsided.

http://www.gnc.com/turmeric/189704.html?mrkgcl=1098&mrkgadid=3200889187&product_id=189704&flagtype=brand&vendor=none&channel=ppc&adpos=1o1&creative=189757865905&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CjwKCAjw7cDaBRBtEiwAsxprXZPtu6Tchggm5FWAu1GfkGYuYOjzfJbGLvNOtKv31C1WKzEq7BKsaBoCUbUQAvD_BwE

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
41. Thanks. I've been taking the tumeric for a while now.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:39 PM
Jul 2018

I've cut down on the IB, but I still can't get below 1800 mg. a day.

JenniferJuniper

(4,496 posts)
33. My mother got opioids for a similar situation
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:35 PM
Jul 2018

It may be a question of finding the right doctor.

Not that they are ideal, but sometimes they are the best available option.

My mother's doctors are at Massachusetts General and there are signs everywhere there that say "You have a right to pain relief". I know that's not the philosophy most places, but I would check around.

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
45. Here in AZ, it's almost impossible to get anything beyond Tramadol.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:40 PM
Jul 2018

I do have a small amount of Tramadol I'm allowed, and I have to be randomly drug tested for it.

I used to give Tramadol by the fistful to my dog with no issues! Now it's considered a "dangerous drug"!
The world has gone insane.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
94. That's the drug I was trying to remember -
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 04:11 PM
Jul 2018

My mother doesn't have much she can take for pain because of her GI issues - Tramadol is one I was trying to remember so I could suggest. I think there's another - I'll keep looking for it.

MarvinGardens

(779 posts)
36. Vitamin D3 supplements ?
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:37 PM
Jul 2018

I don't have arthritis, but I'm in my early 40s and was having lots of neck pain, I suspect from an old injury, along with other aches and pains. I started on Vitamin D3 and most of that resolved. Most people can take up to 4000 IU per day safely. You can take a lot more than that if your doctor checks your level and finds it low.

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
46. Thanks, yes, I've been taking that as well.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:42 PM
Jul 2018

Since I live in Phoenix, I avoid the sun as much as possible.

So I've been supplementing vitamin D for years.

minoan

(95 posts)
37. Fish oil has helped with my level 4 osteoarthritis in my knees
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:37 PM
Jul 2018

You might try it; it is a good anti inflammatory. I refuse to take NSAIDS because of the risks to my heart. The fish oil might help you; you might ask your dr about it instead of trying more drugs.

Runningdawg

(4,494 posts)
38. Accupuncture
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:38 PM
Jul 2018

NOT by some quack with a certificate hanging on his wall that he earned by paying 3K and attending a weekend workshop. NOT by a MD who did much the same. But by a certified, highly qualified, Chinese Medicine Physician. (CMP).
You may need to travel and it may not be covered by insurance HOWEVER after an initial 3 day intensive treatment ($200) my father only needed to see the Dr twice a year to obtain relief for the last 20 years of his life. The cost of an office visit was $75, only $15 dollars more than he would have co-paid for a specialist under his insurance. She sent him a box of natural meds once every 3 months that cost about $40 a box.

LeftInTX

(24,554 posts)
39. Most of the CBD oil sold OTC in TX health food stores and head shops are snake oil.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:38 PM
Jul 2018

I'm sure if obtained with an Rx and from a practitioner, it is legit.

Other states might be different, but they've done tests on that OTC stuff and it doesn't contain CBD oil. It may contain some hemp, but it doesn't contain the beneficial oil.


Crunchy Frog

(26,548 posts)
42. I'm sorry that the drug war has put you in this situation.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:39 PM
Jul 2018

I've been profoundly opposed to this drug war ever since I was forced to go through untreated kidney stone pain.

I definitely think we're going to start seeing lots more deaths from overuse of NSAIDS and Tylenol, and probably even alcohol, as a result of the mismanagement of this "crisis".

You might try looking into kratom. It's a ground up leaf that has mild opioid and possibly anti-inflammatory properties, and is currently still legal.

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
55. Thanks, I will.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:54 PM
Jul 2018

And I very clearly remember your story!!



I strongly feel we will even see a spike in suicides due to this cruel policy.
There are some days when I look ahead to decades of misery and just think "I hope I die soon."

I'm not saying I want to kill myself, I don't. But I can sympathize with those who might choose differently.

whathehell

(28,969 posts)
44. I can't take NSAIDS either -- I take Gabapentin & Tylenol -- Gabepentin
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:40 PM
Jul 2018

is NOT an opiod and not addictive...Ask your doctor about it, and good luck.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
97. You may find it worth it -
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 04:15 PM
Jul 2018

but Gabapentin made me dizzy.

I used it for most of a year for vertigo (which seems odd, but vertigo is different from being dizzy). Gabapentin got rid of the vertigo (which was just plain exhausting), but replaced it with dizziness - which made me more likely to land on my keister, but was not nearly as exhausting as my vertigo.

I hated it, but it was definitely worth it as we worked on treating the underlying cause of the vertigo. (I have no knowledge of it in connection with pain relief.)

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
48. You need a pain specialist, Coventina.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:45 PM
Jul 2018

If you've been to one and it "didn't work," get another one and follow the treatment regimen scrupulously, taking notes of results and reporting back to the specialist frequently, until together you find a combination of therapies that works best for you.

You are also, of course, not your father, and it could be that newer surgical techniques and components on a different, younger body (yours) would have greater success. Please keep all doors open.



Coventina

(26,867 posts)
52. Thanks! Well, I'm allegedly seeing one of the best there is in the Phoenix area.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:50 PM
Jul 2018

But, maybe it is time to see if another one could do better.

I'm also really hesitant to have major surgery with this current hysteria about getting decent pain relief.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
65. It's shocking that treating pain has been back-burnered
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 02:44 PM
Jul 2018

through almost all of the medical revolution. I remember Oberman's passionate, ranting return to his show after witnessing his father's agonized, tormenteddeath from cancer, in hospital no less. One of many wake-up calls.

I understand as much as I can your fear of what could come after surgery at this time. Our daughter, who seemingly inherited spinal column problems from some unknown ancestor, has had 3 major back surgeries. The third was mercifully the very wished for charm, even if not magic, but the first two only improved her pain somewhat. Of course, not carrying around small children and their laundry, etc., would probably have helped.

Best wishes until the advances they keep talking about become real for you.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
98. You may be pleasantly surprised about surgery and amount pain control -
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 04:25 PM
Jul 2018

When I went in for treatment of rotator cuff injury 7 weeks ago, I caught the beginning of the class for folks having knee surgery - and heard what I thought was an indication the doctor was not going to give them pain medication. ( . . . there are other ways to deal with pain).

I've been doing physical therapy with those folks now for 7 weeks in a very small room, so I know they had access to opiod pain relief for at least two weeks (the therapists are asking about pain level, and which kind of pain relief they are taking). All but one of the group of around 10 didn't need pain relief after that period. The one did - largely because she has not been following the doctor's directions (not taking pain meds 30 minutes before physical therapy, not wearing her TENS unit to physical therapy, not doing exercises between visits). Everyone else seems largely pain free, with physical therapy mostly working on range of motion. (My mother is contemplating knee replacement - so I've been eavesdropping - and it would be hard not to because the PT room is only about 25 x 50)

So if the significant concern is pain relief, have a good long chat with the doctor about just how much relief, for how long, might be available.

csziggy

(34,120 posts)
50. Please be careful with the ibuprofen
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:48 PM
Jul 2018

After my left kidney was removed last year my urologist recommended only acetaminophen for general pain and said that ibuprofen and naproxen are both really hard on the kidneys. Acetaminophen really does not help that much so that is frustrating but it does mean I take less pain meds. I got better relief from naproxen but I'd rather not lose the other kidney!

Have your seen a doctor specifically for your arthritis? My sister has a specialist who has recommended some of the new medications specifically for it and she seems to be improved by what she was given. I don't know exactly what medication she is currently on so I have no hints for you.

I hope you can find something that will help. Good luck with your heart treatment and I hope you can find a way to relieve your pain.

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
54. Thank you!
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:52 PM
Jul 2018


Yes, I am currently seeing a specialist for my arthritis. Supposedly one of the best in the Phoenix area.
 

demtenjeep

(31,997 posts)
58. My GI doesn't let me take ibuprofen or naproxen. I survive on Loratabs and
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 02:04 PM
Jul 2018

I get two small doses of oxycontin extended release every day and am allowed up to 8 loratabs a day

Grammy23

(5,808 posts)
51. Have you thought about trying a Low Carb or Ketogenic Diet?
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:49 PM
Jul 2018

My husband and I follow a very low carb, moderate protein, high fat diet and both of us have seen a significant reduction in joint pain. My husband seems to have a severe reaction to wheat products and recently tried to add back in bread (made with grains) and within a couple of weeks of very modest consumption of bread was showing signs that his body was not happy. His shoulder pain returned, as did his hip issues. Needless to say, wheat and other grain bread is off the menu again.

I saw a similar reduction in aches and pains associated with arthritis after a significant reduction in carbohydrates. (No more than 20 grams per day.) The thinking on what constitutes a healthy diet is undergoing a significant revolution. The low carb/high fat/ moderate protein diet is being advised by more and more mainstream doctors for their patients with diabetes or are pre-diabetic or have a whole host of other medical issues. Nutrition advise is being revised every day. There is a ton of information on YouTube and the internet. Check it out if you want to explore a nondrug way to deal with your aches and pains. It might help your cardiac issues as well.

Grammy23

(5,808 posts)
57. On YouTube
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:58 PM
Jul 2018

Check out Dr. Ken Berry or Dr. Eric Westman. Berry is in private practice in Tennessee, I think. Westman is at Duke in Durham, NC. There are many others, of course, but those are two that come to mind who are MDs and have lots of info on YouTube. Much of their info is about diabetes or weight loss issues but they discuss other health problems they treat with a Low Carb or Keto diet. Good luck!
 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
83. And if you decide to do that --
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:47 PM
Jul 2018

actually, if you're not already off wheat, you should be. Some people have "cured" their arthritis completely by simply giving up wheat and/or nightshades.

But anyway -- if you do go keto, I am subscribed to 2 email newsletters that offer dynamite keto (low carb) recipes. You don't need to feel "deprived" if you've got great recipes to choose from.

thinkingagain

(905 posts)
56. Look into Organic Sulfur Crystals
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 01:56 PM
Jul 2018

Just google it and you can come up with a lot of info it is available at amazon and other places.

I have arthritis and other issues ( looking at hip surgery probability)
When I came across this stuff amazingly at my local shoe store the owner has R A
And only takes this stuff ( they sell it) and takes no other meds.
Although not perfect ( I don’t probably drink enough water) it has helped and I hardly take advil etc any more where as before I would take like 3 pills 3 times a day
I hardly can find anything negative about it
It does thin the blood they say for that’s ok because I am suppose to take baby aspirin daily to help my blood from clotting

Beantighe

(126 posts)
61. I know it sounds crazy
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 02:17 PM
Jul 2018

I know it sounds crazy, but cutting out ALL sugars helped my OA pain significantly. I fall off the wagon frequently though, and have noticed that when I do, my pain increases. Unfortunately, I am very weak when it comes to sugar. If you eat quite a bit of sugar/carbs throughout the day, maybe you would benefit by eliminating them completely for awhile.

Just thought I'd throw that out there for you.

hlthe2b

(101,728 posts)
62. NOT crazy... Sugar is a highly pro-inflammatory component of diet.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 02:23 PM
Jul 2018

So, reducing added sugar and limiting naturally-occurring, can make a big difference as long as you don't add in a lot of highly processed carbs.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
99. Not crazy - I'm already eating near-keto for diabetes control.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 04:29 PM
Jul 2018

But when I went to a specialist for rotator cuff issues, an anti-inflammatory (primarily low-carb) diet was one of his main recommendations.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
129. Sugar was causing a severe skin darkening problem for me.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 08:05 PM
Jul 2018

So it does affect people negatively. I run a low sugar diet now and use honey to get my sweet fix, so far so good.

Bayard

(21,805 posts)
63. Meloxicam
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 02:33 PM
Jul 2018

My orthopedic surgeon just put me on 15mg of this once a day because I was also taking handfuls of ibuprofen a day. Too many old broken bones that didn't set right, and arthritis setting up, among other things. It doesn't take the edge off quite as well, but I've only been on it a couple weeks. Wondering about asking if he can up the dose a little. I also consistently overdo things around the farm.

Don't know why I hadn't heard about the ibuprofen and kidney thing......I only have one kidney already. I may also look into some of the remedies mentioned here.

ooky

(8,885 posts)
86. I was taking meloxicam for my osteoarthritis and getting about the same result
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:53 PM
Jul 2018

as you were reporting. Not quite taking the edge off. My orthopedic surgeon had prescribed mine too.

Then my general practitioner took me off the meloxicam and prescribed diclofenac sodium, two 75 tablets a day. That took the edge off, it worked way better than the meloxicam. In fact, it worked so well I can usually get by with only one tablet a day. Now my knee feels real good, as well as some other joints I was having pain caused by inflammation.

However, it is an NSAID, so not for people who can't take NSAIDs.

nolabear

(41,915 posts)
66. I'm in similar straits. What specifically are you seeing the cardiologist for?
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 02:56 PM
Jul 2018

I find 500mg naproxin twice a day is the difference between mobility and real pain for me. I’ve tried pretty much everything mentioned in this thread- turmeric (helps some), low carb very restricted doctor supervised pain diet (meh), CBD (not bad-I’d try it if I were you), but naproxen just plain works. I haven’t used it that long but I used ibuprofen for a couple of years daily before switching. My heart has no issues so I have my fingers crossed. Every doc I see is ambivalent. They weasel on its potential damage.

I’m caught maybe between quantity and quality. Right now I’m rolling the dice and going for quality.

Good luck. It ain’t easy. ❤️

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
68. Suspected small vessel disease, not yet confirmed.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:01 PM
Jul 2018

Unfortunately, I'm allergic to naproxin. I know it works well for many people.

For me, IB is what works, but the cardiologist really had a fit when I told him how much I was taking.

I'm going for quality as well. I really don't see the point of a life in pain.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
101. Just keep an eye on your blood pressure.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 04:32 PM
Jul 2018

Ibuprofen, when taken regularly, moves my blood pressure from low to Stage II hypertension (the most severe)

nolabear

(41,915 posts)
104. My bp is remarkably good. Apparently it's genetic.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 04:37 PM
Jul 2018

I’m zaftig af and have no blood pressure or cardiac issues and no diabetes. My poor slender husband who still does jiujitsu in his sixties has had a bypass, has adult onset diabetes and takes a zillion meds. I don’t by any means Pooh Pooh self care. I take really decent care of myself. But genes help a lot in that regard.

eShirl

(18,466 posts)
67. osteo biflex advanced triple strength
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:01 PM
Jul 2018

not the one with added Vitamin D; they reduce the amount of the other stuff to fit the vitamin D in the pill

it has glucosamine, chondroitin, a bunch of boswellia extract, and sulfur in the form of MSM

question everything

(47,265 posts)
73. You may want to consider Voltaren
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:21 PM
Jul 2018

Diclofenac topical 1% gel (Voltaren Topical) is used to treat joint pain in the hands, wrists, elbows, knees, ankles, or feet caused by osteoarthritis. This medication may not be effective in treating arthritis pain elsewhere in the body.

https://www.rxlist.com/voltaren-gel-drug/patient-images-side-effects.htm

I don't have arthritis but have used it on local inflammation. I like it because it is topical, does not go through the GI system.

no_hypocrisy

(45,774 posts)
85. Two things:
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:52 PM
Jul 2018

1) Nutritional supplements: MSM, Glucosamine, and Chondroitin. I used all of them when I tore my knee and was trying to regain my balance and my gait. I swear by them.
https://www.webmd.com/osteoarthritis/arthritis-supplements#1

2) Bone broth. https://draxe.com/the-healing-power-of-bone-broth-for-digestion-arthritis-and-cellulite/
You buy it or make it yourself on the stove. The joints are lubricated when you eat this, among other benefits.

You can use your NSAIDs occasionally but not every day.

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
89. Doing the MSM, glucosamine & Chondroitin.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 03:55 PM
Jul 2018

I'm a vegetarian, so the bone broth is a no-go for me.
Although I do, admittedly, take a marine collagen supplement.
(I do eat fish on occasion, so I can justify it that way).

on edit: I guess technically that makes me a pescatarian?

Rainngirl

(243 posts)
91. Try to find an antiinflammatory diet
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 04:01 PM
Jul 2018

There is one that comes from Vashon Island here in Washington state. It's called "TQI" which stands for "to quiet inflammation." People give good feedback about joint pain, including arthritis and all kinds of other ailments. It's hard to do because it's pretty restrictive. The link is http://www.toquietinflammation.com. I took the class in person but they have it online. The beginning three weeks are pretty tricky, but if you're hurting that bad (I am, too), it's worth trying--at least commit to the "elimination" phase. There is a book and a little recipe book, but you can find them online for cheaper. It's called "The Abascal Way." The founder is Kathy Abascal and she has a background in science. It all makes sense. The class is only $180 (which is way better than so many programs or surgery).

There's also a pain cream that I get from a small company on Whidbey Island. The product is called "MSR" but I don't have the website available to me right now. It seems pretty helpful, too. And, I imagine, that any manner of cannabis products could help, but I don't know much about it yet.

Good luck!!! I know how awful it is to hurt all the fuckn time. I can't take ANYthing for pain since I'm on a blood thinner and NSAIDs affect that, too. Mostly, I just suck it up, but it sure does put a cramp in my style. Fibro and arthritis in hips and knees and hands, and knees without cartilage. GAH!

still_one

(91,957 posts)
105. Has your physician suggested one of the biggest logical? If not perhaps you should ask
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 05:14 PM
Jul 2018

seek a second opinion for alternatives etc

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
121. Try arnica and lidocaine gel
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 07:13 PM
Jul 2018

I use arnica pills and gel and lidocaine gel when I can’t take aleve. I can only take it for short periods now due to severe reflux. For severe pain/ headaches/ migraines I have stronger stuff saved now due to the crazy here now. Lidocaine gel can actually knock out potential bad back spasms for me. Arnica can lower bp so you have to be careful if you take bp meds. One of my students suggested cratom but I have no idea how that will affect me and I keep getting messages it has been recalled due to salmonella. Low vit D may be a factor as well. You may need high doses rx at first to raise it but make sure to take vit K2 with it.

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
158. Well, I couldn't really wear it to work, it's too bulky.
Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:26 PM
Jul 2018

I use it in the evenings, after I get home.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
126. I suffer from gout. Started at a young age.
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 07:50 PM
Jul 2018

I took indomethecine for the pain and swelling, it is an alternative to ibuprofen.
Indo is penicillin based.

I don't take MEDs regularly now at all because I found a good natural solution. I massage hurting areas and flex hurting joints, that creates blood flow to the area and the next day, I have no issues. If you can afford it, try working with a trained, experienced massage therapist and have that person work on your problem joints. Some of the better ones rub your skin with essential oils that promote blood flow to the area. If this works for you, you may be able to dramatically step down on the MEDs.

Horse with no Name

(33,956 posts)
134. this is a very relevant topic at work
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 08:24 PM
Jul 2018

have you considered CBD oil?
Some of our patients are having good success with it although we can't recommend it.

Have you tried some of the herbal things like st johns wort, saw palmetto or glucosamine?

Would your doctor prescribe butrans?

I'm sorry you are suffering. It is very difficult for providers too to know that their patients are suffering.

mcar

(42,210 posts)
139. I was on naproxen for 5 years
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 08:42 PM
Jul 2018

For bad TMJ and other joint issues. Ended up with gastritis and GERD, so no more NSAIDS for me.

The first few months were awful - I got migraines again because of my jaw. I nkw take Tylenol arthritis strength. It helps a little bit. Otherwise just struggle through. I need to look into CBD.

Worst thing about it is I had to give up tea because it triggers the GERD something fierce. Thank the sweet baby Jesus I can still drink white wine!

Niagara

(7,406 posts)
147. I'm sorry to read this, Coventina
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 10:31 PM
Jul 2018

As a person with inflammatory issues (not arthritis) I suggest the following:

1. Stay active, take a walk, do some easy peasy exercises like stretches and leg lifts.

2. Try to eliminate the 3 C's. Certain people's bodies have an inflammatory reaction to cheese, chocolate and coffee, even though these items are not considered an inflammatory.

3. If you eliminate the 3 C's and it doesn't help, go back to the 3C's and try to eliminate gluten. Gluten is a terrible inflammatory for
many people and they have no idea.

4. Add turmeric to your dishes. Turmeric has anti-inflammatory properties.

5. Ask your doctor about herbal supplements that you can take. The reason I say to ask your doctor is herbal supplements are not FDA regulated.


I hope this helps

3catwoman3

(23,815 posts)
150. I looked up hypnosis for pain relief and...
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 11:09 PM
Jul 2018

...found this article on "hypno-analgesia.". No personal experience with this modality. I have had acupuncture prior to my hip replacement, and it was beneficial.

http://www.apa.org/research/action/hypnosis.aspx

Mosby

(16,168 posts)
152. there are lots of different nsaids
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 11:40 PM
Jul 2018

Maybe your dr has some ideas about alternatives.

My dog takes one every day for herniated disks, is called metacam. Saved his life.

Coventina

(26,867 posts)
159. The cardiologist said ANY NSAID contributes to heart disease / stroke / liver failure
Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:28 PM
Jul 2018

/ kidney failure

They are all extremely damaging when used over the long term.

I've been living on them now for a decade.

The empressof all

(29,098 posts)
153. I'm in a similar boat
Thu Jul 19, 2018, 11:52 PM
Jul 2018

I have severe osteo as well as stenosis. NSAIDS didn't help at all and the opioids just made me mean and really didn't take away the pain. I had great hope for CBD and medical cannabis but have found it not as helpful as I hoped. I have managed to cut inflammation and pain by about 30% after a year of eating plant based. It's hard and I'm not perfect but am pretty much at 98% of my diet consisting of plants. The other 2 % is usually salmon but I will eat meat if I am out and there aren't other options. I also take magnesium, turmeric, Vitamin D- B12 and flax oil. I have also found DSMO cream helpful though it's more helpful with muscle ache. I have also just started with a plant based collagen.


I have had a hip and knee replacement. The knee was painful recover but is now pain free. My hip surgery relieved pain but left me with one leg shorter than the other. I'm reluctant to do the spine surgery as the surgeon did not seem hopeful that it would really work well for me. Kudos to him for being blunt. I would have done it if I could have possibly had a better result.


So I can offer you no real solutions...Just share what I am doing. I feel your pain!

hedda_foil

(16,368 posts)
154. I took that much I ibuprofen for fibromyalgia and wound up with a perforated ulcer.
Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:41 AM
Jul 2018

Not worth it. See if your doc will prescribe tramadol.

hedda_foil

(16,368 posts)
160. There's a related drug called Ketoprofin that is a lot less destructive than ibuprofin.
Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:29 PM
Jul 2018

When I took it around 2003, it was by prescription only. I don't know whether it could affect the heart, but it's worth asking about.

marlakay

(11,370 posts)
155. Pure EMU oil is anti inflammatory
Fri Jul 20, 2018, 02:04 AM
Jul 2018

I use it for another condition that is on same spectrom.

Agree with the cut out sugars and carbs. I am struggling with this but sugar causes inflammation.

Justice

(7,182 posts)
156. Just wanted to say thank you - really informative thread
Fri Jul 20, 2018, 08:09 AM
Jul 2018

Gave me lots to think about in terms of steps I can take in my own life. I appreciate it.
 

TheFrenchRazor

(2,116 posts)
164. i feel you; it's total BS. if the government is going to prevent me from obtaining relief from my pa
Sat Jul 21, 2018, 03:54 AM
Jul 2018

pain, so that i can function and survive, then the government can pay my bills. that's fair isn't it? but of course they won't; they don't care if chronic pain patients just suffer until they either die or kill themselves. and with all due respect to the people who have offered many suggestions here, why should someone who is suffering extreme chronic pain have to try a million different treatments that quite likely won't work at all, or may even make the person even sicker, when they could use a proven and relatively safe opiate/opioid pain reliever, and save themselves a lot of trouble, expense, and pain?

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