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Fri Jul 20, 2018, 09:51 AM

 

Trump may have actually lost by 19 million votes.

https://thinkprogress.org/states-purged-16-million-voters-from-the-rolls-before-the-2016-election-1c5688dcaad7/

16 million people were illegally purged from voter rolls between the 2014 mid-terms and 2016 election. Most were low-income and minorities including in states like Florida and North Carolina.

That is terrifying. The GOP is attacking us from within and Russia is hacking from outside.

65 replies, 15018 views

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Reply Trump may have actually lost by 19 million votes. (Original post)
OliverQ Jul 2018 OP
Wounded Bear Jul 2018 #1
DemocracyMouse Jul 2018 #8
niyad Jul 2018 #14
AdamGG Jul 2018 #54
maddiemom Jul 2018 #62
FM123 Jul 2018 #28
peekaloo Jul 2018 #2
Hoyt Jul 2018 #3
Garrett78 Jul 2018 #5
FakeNoose Jul 2018 #9
LisaM Jul 2018 #17
thesquanderer Jul 2018 #12
Bettie Jul 2018 #18
thesquanderer Jul 2018 #51
FakeNoose Jul 2018 #26
mythology Jul 2018 #32
JonLP24 Jul 2018 #48
mountain grammy Jul 2018 #27
thesquanderer Jul 2018 #50
erpowers Jul 2018 #44
Hoyt Jul 2018 #46
dalton99a Jul 2018 #4
bucolic_frolic Jul 2018 #6
Raster Jul 2018 #7
FiveGoodMen Jul 2018 #35
Raster Jul 2018 #36
mikeysnot Jul 2018 #10
Raster Jul 2018 #37
erpowers Jul 2018 #45
mikeysnot Jul 2018 #60
Hekate Jul 2018 #11
47of74 Jul 2018 #13
Volaris Jul 2018 #24
RandomAccess Jul 2018 #31
Raster Jul 2018 #38
VOX Jul 2018 #64
triron Jul 2018 #15
AlexSFCA Jul 2018 #16
Bettie Jul 2018 #19
lunamagica Jul 2018 #20
triron Jul 2018 #25
SunSeeker Jul 2018 #21
hedda_foil Jul 2018 #22
Zing Zing Zingbah Jul 2018 #23
DFW Jul 2018 #29
47of74 Jul 2018 #33
DFW Jul 2018 #34
Raster Jul 2018 #39
47of74 Jul 2018 #47
MichMan Jul 2018 #59
toddwv Jul 2018 #30
flibbitygiblets Jul 2018 #43
fescuerescue Jul 2018 #40
shadowmayor Jul 2018 #41
MountCleaners Jul 2018 #42
Initech Jul 2018 #49
Lucky Luciano Jul 2018 #52
AdamGG Jul 2018 #55
Lucky Luciano Jul 2018 #61
oberliner Jul 2018 #53
mvd Jul 2018 #56
pansypoo53219 Jul 2018 #57
UCmeNdc Jul 2018 #58
Yellowdog88 Jul 2018 #63
UCmeNdc Jul 2018 #65

Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 09:53 AM

1. We've known this has been going on for years...

The media does us no favors by ignoring it.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 11:08 AM

8. I was sounding the alarms about purging and vote suppression 2 years ago.

I guess I should have done it naked while balancing on one foot on a horse.

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:01 PM

14. we have known since at least the 2000 debacle.

Last edited Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:06 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to niyad (Reply #14)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 01:27 AM

54. Jeb/Katherine Harris knowingly purged 8,000 people w/ the same names as different felons in Texas

The company contracted to do the work told them that these people had different middle names, different dates of birth, from the people on the Texas felon list and they didn't care.

This was the beginning of using this tactic to swing national elections.

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Response to niyad (Reply #14)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 10:11 AM

62. And let sixteen years pass without getting rid of the electoral college system.

Even voter suppression and 2000 Supreme Court shenanigans, did not stop Gore and Hillary from getting the most popular votes. Duh, something is going on here, for sure with the Dems, as well. Republicans were set up to raise hell in 2000 if things had gone the other way. Why not use the simplest solution of using the popular votes, as every other election contest does? The general public is being played, somehow.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 01:41 PM

28. Too important to ignore!

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 09:55 AM

2. Comrade Kris Kobach.

Purging voter rolls is a GOP tradition.

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 10:08 AM

3. Folks have to check their registration and local Democratic organizations need to help where

 

necessary.


However, 19 million people did not show up at the polls in 2016, only to be turned away. In fact, there were very few reports of people being turned away. That is something that poll watchers -- including Democrats -- specifically look for.

In my state, most of the cases turned out to be people who showed up at the wrong voting location. They were either redirected or given a provisional ballot. And this is a red state, but somehow we have pretty good voting laws -- can vote by mail, register on-line, usually have several weeks of early voting. There is absolutely no reason not to get registered and vote.

And, it is highly unlikely all those folks supposedly purged would have voted for Democrats, as much as it would be nice to have that pot of potential voters in reserve for 2018.


I don't think we score points with such exaggerations.


BTW -- I've been purged from voter registration at least twice in my lifetime. Both times, I moved to another district and did not let the old registrar know (most people do the same). I re-registered in the new location, and had no problems voting. Most purges are just that -- people move to new districts for states. I bet most here have been purged before, yet never missed a vote.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 10:22 AM

5. The biggest problems may be polling place closures in high density areas, along with...

...changes to voter registration requirements and shortening the early voting period. People in those high density areas can't always afford to wait hours and hours to vote. This is obviously going to hurt Democrats far more than Republicans.

Here's an article on all of that and then some: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/7/13545718/voter-suppression-early-voting-2016

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 11:09 AM

9. The new purging rules involve matching up data from drivers' licenses

Many states are doing this now as a cheap and easy way to get names off the voting registry. They run comparisons of voting registry against (presumably) up-to-date drivers' license data files. If there is any difference between 2 records, they assume that the driver license record is the correct one. They delete or quarantine the voter registration.

For example, your voter reg. record may have you listed as "Bob Jones" and your driver license may have you as "Bob K. Jones". (Same age, same address, same everything.) When that happens they assume the voter registration is wrong and delete it. Stupid shit like this! Don't wait until election day to find out if you've been deleted or quarantined. Check at least one month before and you still have time to get re-registered.

People who vote in every election usually have no trouble. I have never been asked for ID because I vote in every election and they know me. But if you haven't voted in awhile or if you're newly re-registered, you may be asked to show ID. Check to see if that's the case and come prepared to show ID when you vote. Every state and county has different rules, but a current drivers' license or US passport would always be accepted. Most states have other options as well.


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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:12 PM

17. And there is no need to do this.

Voter fraud (i.e., someone purposely over-voting or voting in the wrong place) is statistically non-existent.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 11:29 AM

12. Yes. And even if that would have further skewed the popular vote, it would not have changed outcome

unless perhaps this was happening in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:32 PM

18. It was happening in those states

and it changed the outcome.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #18)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 12:39 AM

51. Where is your source for that?

please see post 50

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 01:25 PM

26. The real problem was that people weren't aware of the purge

People showed up at their regular polling/voting center and were turned away. That should NOT have happened and it could have easily been avoided. Besides that, minorities were in some cases asked to show ID and it was a problem. Some didn't have ID and others didn't want to show it. So people were turned away.

My point is that, even if you have been purged it's a simple process to get back on again. Don't let anyone deny your right to vote!

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #26)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 02:30 PM

32. If 19 million people showed up at the polls and we're turned away

 

There would be evidence. Please present some.

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Response to mythology (Reply #32)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 10:52 PM

48. crosscheck

Plus minorities report at higher rates than whites of being turned aay at the polls.

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 01:36 PM

27. Exactly!

and that's where it happened.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #27)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 12:36 AM

50. Where is your info coming from?

The article says

According to the report, four states (Florida, New York, North Carolina, and Virginia) have engaged in illegal purges in the last five years and another four (Alabama, Arizona, Indiana, and Maine) have implemented purge rules that violate federal law.


No mention of Wisonsin, Michigan, or PA.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 07:28 PM

44. Do You Think Voter Suppression Played Any Role in the Outcome?

I am not trying to refight the 2016 election; I just really want to know your opinion. I actually think voter suppression cost Hillary Clinton the electoral college vote; however, I might be wrong. Maybe she just ran a bad campaign, especially in the swing states.

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Response to erpowers (Reply #44)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 09:43 PM

46. I am sure there were some convent polls that ever closed, lots of poll workers are

 

jerks to poor people, voter IDs could be a problem but there are ways around it, some states make it tougher to register, etc. But Democratic organizations should be helping people with that. I suspect the bigger problem is people feeling their vote doesn’t count, or not realizing things can be done online, by mail, etc.

So, yes, it plays a part, but is easy to overcome. Democrats ought to be winning in most states consistently by several percentage points or more.

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 10:14 AM

4. Kick

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 10:37 AM

6. Sounds reasonable. Who's going to tell Trump?

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 10:39 AM

7. The only way the GOP can stay in power IS TO CHEAT...

...and have made no secret that they want to limit potential Democrats from voting... by hook or by crook. emphasis on "crook."

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Response to Raster (Reply #7)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 03:58 PM

35. Unfortunately, they DO cheat and no one stops them.

Will anyone ever form a party that actually opposes the GOP with more than the occasional strongly-worded letter?

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #35)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 04:21 PM

36. I am hoping that this will be the time...

...it should be more than obvious TO ALL that the Rethugs don't care about tradition, decorum, rule of law or a sense of fair play. Of course, they want us to observe all of those things, but not so much themselves.

Take Comrade McConnell (PLEASE), I watched an interview where he said he was fairly positive that had the Dems had been in the same position, we would not have allowed a Repub President to sit their nominee on the SCOTUS bench, which is ludicrous.

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 11:21 AM

10. This can never be posted enough...

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Response to mikeysnot (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 04:25 PM

37. Thanks, Mikey...

... you are correct, it can never be posted enough.

I'm glad he's dead. I hope it was painful and drawn out.

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Response to mikeysnot (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 07:34 PM

45. You Are Right

That video needs to be played as often as possible. Democrats should use that in their campaign ads during every election cycle. People should know about this guy and what he said.

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Response to erpowers (Reply #45)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 07:00 AM

60. catapult the propaganda

right back in their KGOP face...

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 11:21 AM

11. KnR

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 11:49 AM

13. My dream Amendment XXVIII

 

Aside from totally outlawing slavery would mandate that

A) Each and every US citizen over the age of 16 has the right to vote and cannot lose that right for any reason.
B) Voter suppression and electoral fraud would be considered constitutional level crimes next to treason and counterfeiting.
C) It would be mandate life imprisonment or death for anyone convicted of violating section B.
D) The government has the affirmative duty to help US citizens to vote.

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Response to 47of74 (Reply #13)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:57 PM

24. I would would add a Section E:

All Federal Office elections (and their associated campaigns), shall be paid for via a Federal Tax.

All State Office elections (and their associated campaigns) shall be paid for via a State Tax.

There shall be no paid, broadcast campaign advertisements within 20 days of any Federal Election.

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Response to 47of74 (Reply #13)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 02:25 PM

31. I like it. A lot.

 

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Response to 47of74 (Reply #13)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 04:26 PM

38. I heartedly concur....

... the crime would be ELECTORAL TREASON!

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Response to 47of74 (Reply #13)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 10:19 AM

64. Wow. I share your dream.

I’m of a certain vintage that couldn’t vote until age 21. The way my birth year falls, I didn’t vote for president until I was 23.

If we’d had 18-year-old voting rights back then, I’m certain that Richard Nixon would not have been elected in 1968.

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:08 PM

15. I'm sure Russian hackers made some strategic changes to the voter rolls.

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:09 PM

16. this is a result of not holding reps accountable, like ever

When have dems held repubs accountable for anything?
Hillary Clinton allowed herself to be constantly bullied and defamed instead of pushing back hard and launching defamation lawsuits and forcing those crazies to testify under oath in courts. Repubs never let go, whether dems are guilty or not. The moment we win elections, we forgive everything for ‘unity’ sake. When you let bullies to bully you, expect more bullying.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #16)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:36 PM

19. And when you let an administration

get away with criminal acts, the next of that party does more...and then more...and then we get, whatever this is we're living through.

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:37 PM

20. Oh, but let's move on. Don't look behind, look ahead. The past is the past

this time will will have super-rock-star-perfect candidate who will pulverize trump

/sarcasm>

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #20)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 01:18 PM

25. Yeah, let's just ignore the fact that the Russians attacked the electoral process to install Trump

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:38 PM

21. K & R for exposure.

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:54 PM

22. More from link above: Kobach's interstate crosscheck is implicated of course.



Many of the states conducting illegal purges use the Interstate Voter Registration Crosscheck Program, the brainchild of Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach (R). The Crosscheck system is extremely flawed — a vast majority of the names the system flags as voters in two states are not actually double-voters, and at least eight states have pulled out of the system because of its high margin of error.

The use of voter purges is just part of a scheme by Republican politicians who vastly exaggerate the threat of voter fraud in order to push laws and policies that end up disenfranchising voters. The 2016 election was the first presidential contest without the full protections of the Voting Rights Act, and evidence of how many voters were affected by the loss in protections continues to emerge.

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 12:55 PM

23. All states should allow voter registration on election day

Then all that purging won't matter. Also,all states should let people in prison vote. They don't stop being Americans because they are incarcerated. They have families still.

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 01:43 PM

29. There should be just a few simple rules.

If you are a U.S. citizen, you have the right to vote.

U.S. citizens may vote either
1.) In the district and State of their birth, or
2.) In the state where they reside and/or spend most of their time, or
3.) Absentee by sending their ballots to their precinct's election office in either 1.) or 2.)

No U.S. citizen may be denied the right to vote. Anyone deliberately trying to suppress this right, be it by physical denial at a polling place, disposing of a duly executed ballot, computer denial by attempting to fraudulently manipulate data in a data base, or by any other method, shall be imprisoned in a maximum security prison facility for a minimum of 15 years. Attempts to fraudulently implicate someone of these crime who is in fact innocent, shall carry the same penalty. If someone innocent of these crimes serves time by being wrongly convicted, the guilty party shall forfeit all assets to the wronged innocent party, and in addition to his or her own sentence, serve an additional term equal to the time in prison that the wrongly convicted party spent locked up.

The chief executive and entire board of directors of any electronic vote tallying machines found to contain software that permits them to be manipulated, before or after an election, shall be imprisoned for as long as they live. Paper ballots should be phased back in wherever they may not already back in use.

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Response to DFW (Reply #29)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 02:59 PM

33. I'm a bit more of a hardass

 

I think it should be life imprisonment and on days when I'm in a really bad mood I think it should absolutely be eligible for the death penalty.

If the past two decades have shown anything, it's that voting has to be held as absolutely sacred and that anything that impedes free and fair elections cannot be tolerated.

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Response to 47of74 (Reply #33)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 03:29 PM

34. I am not a big fan of the death penalty

But life without the possibility of parole before age 90 would be acceptable to me. Especially for sleazeballs like the ones who deliberately try to kick people off of voter rolls for the crime of belonging to constituencies that tend to vote in ways they claim God doesn't like.

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Response to DFW (Reply #34)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 04:27 PM

39. I am also not a big fan of the death penalty...

...but I am willing to make exceptions.

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Response to Raster (Reply #39)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 09:57 PM

47. Yeah I'm not a big fan of it myself.

 

I too think there need to be some exceptions though due to the amount of death and destruction that can be caused when our elections get fornicated with and someone gets installed who has no business being in office.

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Response to DFW (Reply #29)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 06:50 AM

59. Why should I be able to vote in the state I was born in?

I haven't lived there since I was 3 years old. That doesn't make any sense

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 02:09 PM

30. Verify your voter registration.

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Response to toddwv (Reply #30)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 07:13 PM

43. This is cool!

Thanks

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 04:53 PM

40. We need to get every one of those 19 million to speak up and march on Washington

Imagine if every single denied voter, all 19 million showed up in Washington DC tomorrow.

That would get some attention.

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 06:15 PM

41. Greg Palast

Mr. Palast started writing and speaking about this in earnest following the 2000 election. He doubts that Kerry actually lost to Bush in 2004 based on the votes in Ohio and other places. He warned us specifically before 2016 that the republican suppression machine was gearing up for another major run of interference. And yet . . .

Folks, purging voter rolls is easily done and we don't fight back. And all ballots should be paper, with records kept in storage for review. The average precinct is fewer than 1500 people, so the votes can easily be tabulated. I would recommend that if the polls close on Tuesday, the results across the nation shouldn't be published until Friday. Right now, it's a giant media fest with big boards and idiots and elections being called way too early.

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 06:23 PM

42. Yes!!

You can order Greg Palast's video through his website for a donation. He has an updated video with stuff about 2016. I urge everyone to read all of his books and follow him on Twitter. He needs more publicity!

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Fri Jul 20, 2018, 10:56 PM

49. If they can't work to make it, they'll rob to take it.

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 12:53 AM

52. 19 million is the most extreme case and not believable. 8 million yes.

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Response to Lucky Luciano (Reply #52)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 01:29 AM

55. Enough to have flipped North Carolina & Florida

in addition to Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. The polls were right.

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Response to AdamGG (Reply #55)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 07:22 AM

61. No question we would be saying madam president. Not even close. nt

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 01:08 AM

53. That's not what the article says

 

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 01:44 AM

56. Lots of funny stuff about that election

With all the Russian infiltration, the numbers in WI, MI and PA also seem convenient for the Con.

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 04:30 AM

57. i started reading a GWB era book on this w/ footnotes til i got to depressed.

best govt you can buy? cheating GOP weasels.

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Response to OliverQ (Original post)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 06:18 AM

58. Well, there seems to be no Democratic Party leadership efforts to attack these problems

The Democratic party seems unorganized when it comes to making sure their voters are registered to vote and are able to vote.

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Response to UCmeNdc (Reply #58)

Sat Jul 21, 2018, 10:14 AM

63. Agreed

If the party is to take back what was lost, it can't rely on the blue wave and anger. It should be actively identifying voters who were impeded and ensure that they are registered and ready for November. And also tap into newly eligible.

The party is pretty incoherent in my opinion right now. We should have some new blood beating back against the avalanche of shit coming from that anus-looking mouth. Weirdly, we just seem to see faces like Rubio, Jackson, and others.

On this side, Schiff is doing the heavy lifting. Harris once in awhile, but the rest are lost in the din. We don't stand out. It's time to punch hard and often. (Please, less Chuck Schumer!).

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Response to Yellowdog88 (Reply #63)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 05:01 PM

65. I wonder if they D. leadership this is not think this is an important problem?

It would seem they will have an organized effort assigned to someone to fight this.

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