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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRadosh: Sanders, Ocasio-Cortez are losing the way home
Many here will remember Michael Harrington, the great socialist thinker who helped inspire the Kennedy-Johnson war on poverty, and a few may remember long time democratic socialist Ronald Radosh. Radosh recently penned a piece about what Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are getting wrong in their campaigns in the heartland and elsewhere, and says Harrington never would have approved of their approach that could help elect repubs.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/democratic-socialists-gain-momentum-and-lose-their-way?ref=home
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Thanks for posting.
ETA:
Harrington would, I think, have backed a victory in that six-candidate Democratic primary for the Democrat most likely to capture the center in a race against the existing Congressman, Republican Kevin Yoder, who seems happy watching Democrats fight amongst themselves.
This is a center-right district, he told Weigel, and people from time to time will cross over to vote for a Democrat. When they worry that the Democratic Party is being taken over by folks who describe themselves as democratic socialists, theyre not going to take that risk. As New York Times reporter Sydney Ember pointed out, after covering the rally, many establishment Democrats have bristled at the suggestion that the far-left ideas espoused by her and Mr. Sanders represent the partys position. Moreover, these Democrats fear that the socialist message in districts vastly different than hers will turn off, rather than invigorate, voters.
Sid
yardwork
(61,585 posts)OnDoutside
(19,949 posts)theaocp
(4,235 posts)there's also no "right time" to talk about policies Americans desire. To do so risks electing a Republican, apparently. How many times did the article smear AOC and Sanders as socialists? I lost count. They could talk about issues, but fealty MUST be observed. It was also noted how even the article put those who aren't AOC and her supporters as "establishment" Dems. So, which is it? You can smear the "socialists" or you can NOT be "establishment". Make up your minds.
Squinch
(50,932 posts)they don't see it as a smear.
And really? This "establishment" bullshit?
Sigh. With what's at stake in Nov, I guess we just have to expect this nonsense. Thank God we can all see through it now.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...hardly 'all seeing through this now.'
Funny how an echo chamber works.
Squinch
(50,932 posts)fighting Democrats. YMMV.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...and recognize all of this paranoia about Democratic primary opponents competing for the chance to face republicans in the general election as self-defeating navel-gazing.
Squinch
(50,932 posts)and effort should be going toward contested seats. We should not be spending it fighting Democrats in safe districts.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...there are ways to capitalize on this opposition.
It would be a mistake to just go on and on about the opposition and not recognize the opportunity to pull their supporters in.
Consider the millions who responded to the progressive challenges in the last election. In these challenges they aren't presenting themselves as independents. they are seeking recognition and a place in the Democratic party. that's opportunity, not the threat some portray it as here.
It's not Sanders' or AOC's fault that there are voters inclined away from the incumbent. It's the incumbent's failure to attract these votes. The sooner they face that reality, the better.
Squinch
(50,932 posts)bigtree
(85,984 posts)...I'm defending these Democratic candidates' right and reason to participate in our primary system of elections, and advising you to recognize the support that's behind these challenges as more than a threat to your own candidate.
watoos
(7,142 posts)lapucelle
(18,229 posts)Brand New Congress ran a candidate in the Republican primary in Arkansas who would have gone head to head with the Democrat in the GE had he won.
BNC is still running a Republican-turned-Independent in a Tennessee congressional gemeral election. Here's what one of their founders had to say about the Democratic party:
Corbin: Myself, personally? I have no relationship whatsoever. The organization has very little. We intend to run within their structures, and in their primaries, and were thankful that theyve set up an infrastructure thats going to allow candidates to run in primaries. But we think that the party hasa long time agostopped representing the needs of the American people.
Cha
(297,029 posts)away for our Democratic Party.
Mahalo, lapucelle
Gothmog
(145,046 posts)bigtree
(85,984 posts)...she'd be an excellent addition to the party and, I think, a fine legislator.
Cha
(297,029 posts)Cha
(297,029 posts)Gothmog
(145,046 posts)Cha
(297,029 posts)here" who don't think BS-AOC are doing the right thing by trying to label, Sharice Davids, Lacy Clay, Stephanie Murphy, and whomever else is in their sights, with their favorite slur insults like "establishment" "corporate shills" or whatever to suit their OR, cenk's Justice Democrats, and glenn greewald's so-called purity code.
Link to tweet
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts).....explaining away how its all well and good to randomly sandbag sitting Democrats.
theaocp
(4,235 posts)Previous drafts can always be revised. Hail democracy.
Hekate
(90,616 posts)Or, maybe not so surprising after all. SMH
Cha
(297,029 posts)Bradshaw3
(7,490 posts)Radosh is a credible left wing Democrat who makes some valid points. I didn't post it to start another refight of the primaries but rather because it is a thoughtful piece on the best approach to reaching goals that more than 90 percent of us on the center-left share. We can fight over the ways and rapidity of change after we win back the government. First we have to do that, and the author makes some good points about accomplishing that - while staying true to the vision of people like Harrington. FWIW I think Bernie takes too many hits on here but in this case I think he is making a mistake.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)from Wikipedia:
Radosh's political views eventually began to shift towards conservatism and his work as a historian has been characterized as being of a conservative variety. Currently employed by the Hudson Institute, Radosh has also published books about the activities of Joseph Stalin's NKVD during the Spanish Civil War and the foundation of the State of Israel.
here's something interesting:
"According to his close friend David Horowitz..."
...close friend David Horowitz? Really?
(Despite Horowitz being a founding intellectual member of the New Left in the 1960s, and an advocate for civil rights and equality, he has since the late 1980s become a driving force of the anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant and anti-black movements. SPLC)
Bradshaw3
(7,490 posts)But reading his article I don't think it qualifies as a hit piece at all and doesn't take away from his points. I grew up in Oklahoma, which has similar politics to Kansas in many areas. I just don't see the point in running very liberal candidates in most areas of red states. Joe Dornan ran for governor of Oklahoma in 2014 as an unabashed liberal and got 41 percent of the vote. Previously, Brad Henry had won twice as a moderate to conservative Democrat. I think 2018 is the year we have to come with our best game as Democrats. I don't think this strategy of Bernie and OC is the way to do it.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...I do think that relying on moderate voters to fill out our ticket is always going to be a dubious proposition.
I'd take this opportunity to try and expand and fill out the base of voters with these folks more inclined to Democratic politics.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)A sizeable chunk of "these folks more inclined to Democratic politics" (sic) don't vote anyway, and certainly won't vote for an "establishment" candidate. Meanwhile, you face the very real possibility of centrist to conservative Democrats, who reliably vote, staying home.
Great plan.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,986 posts)Fuck that divisive terminology. Forget shitty phrases like "establishment democrats". Stop dividing, please. Dividing pleases Putin and the RubleCon-Trump Party.
If you want to get socialist policies enacted, you have to elect Democrats. Period. Democrats. Republicans are not going to do it.
In Kansas, support Democrats who can win. In the Bronx, support socialist Democrats who can win. There is no contradiction and no smear to state it exactly as I have.
Support Democrats who can win, socialist or centrist depending on where they are running.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)Single payer is found in well run free market democracies, like Canada and France. That association of single payer with socialism buys into the GOP narrative and makes it harder for us to get single payer. Same thing with living wage legislation. Calling it socialism may get more people to sign up for Democratic Socialists of America. But it will not get us closer to these progressive goals.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)For that matter, except for Cuba and Venezuela I am not aware of socialist countries.
I go to Western Europe almost yearly. They are all capitalist with Social Democrat governments.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)True Blue American
(17,982 posts)With a non Democrat.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)How is Welder, a campaign operative of a 30-year congressman, not "establishment," but Davids, a lesbian Native American MMA fighter who lived on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, part of the "establishment" to you?
Cha
(297,029 posts)SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)Cha
(297,029 posts)MustLoveBeagles
(11,587 posts)I hope these women win in November. Natives need to have their voices heard. Their issues and concerns have been ignored for far too long.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Some people, including myself, would like to know.
Me.
(35,454 posts)And I will keep pointing out that while she's gadflying about what she's not doing is what Crowley did to lose the primary, ignoring the district in which she wants a win,
Also..."DSA still heralds the memory of Michael Harrington, but it has strayed far from the actual politics he practiced. Were he alive, he might even think twice about remaining a member"
She was just elected. She should be getting down to work, Not flitting all over the country like some ambitious ingenue.
Me.
(35,454 posts)which is a good part of my point, she won a primary and has yet to win an election
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)But she should really be focusing on her own district. She seems to have gotten caught up in the whirlwind of her sudden celebrity.
Me.
(35,454 posts)Dance with those who brought you, all 16,000 of them
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)And the Republican color is red.
Hoping that she will buckle down, focus on winning her race, and study up on issues beyond her platform. Her video interviews have not gone well.
Squinch
(50,932 posts)horrible and odious peter king in Long Island. OC has a voice there. Wouldn't it be great if she would help turn that seat BLUE?
lapucelle
(18,229 posts)We have a great shot with first time candidate who has already fought for and won a significant victory.
Liuba Grechen Shirley is the first female candidate to get federal permission to use the funds for babysitting. The decision comes at a crucial time.
https://www.vox.com/2018/5/11/17340698/mom-mothers-congress-child-care-liuba-grechen-shirley-campaign-funds-babysitting
We need all hands on deck, and Liuba is running in the county adjacent to the Queens portion of NY 14th.
Me.
(35,454 posts)A tough guy to beat, he's like a stone embedded in the landscape.
lapucelle
(18,229 posts)Even though he voted against the Trump tax giveaway, middle class Long Islanders were hit hard and are angry. We lost our federal deduction for property taxes and state income taxes, so many of us are paying more.
In addition, there are regular, ongoing protests against Trump's immigration policies in front of his village office. The types of people who show up tells us we have a chance.
?itok=47yFNc8l
Me.
(35,454 posts)brer cat
(24,544 posts)Flipping King's seat would be very sweet.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)run against Republicans. Constant campaigning just for the celebrity aspect.
Seth Moulton is hitting it out of the park on State of the Union about narrow views He totally nailed it. Not every voice fits in all areas. Politics 101.
Great post, NJ.
jrthin
(4,835 posts)to feel like 2016 again.
Bradshaw3
(7,490 posts)Obviously any candidate who starts getting national attention is going to get an ego boost out of it, as you would see in any public area like show business, sports etc. just because that is how most humans are. I think OC because of her age is maybe getting swept up in it all.
I just think all of us, Bernie supports and democratic socialists, HRC supportes, POC, red state Dems, etc. just have to be pragmatic and not start needless fights when we agree on 90 percent or more of the issues. Vote for the Democrat most likely to win. We can return to internecine batles once we've taken back the government.
Cha
(297,029 posts)just us on DU. The M$M is all about trying to shame Good Dems!
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...whatever floats his boat.
He's worried about upsetting 'centrists' and moderates' who regularly denounce what he believes in.
He has every right to his opinion, but people in these conservative states who identify with these progressive rivals might not be as obsequious to the beliefs of those who regularly spurn their interests and concerns as 'fringe' and radical in cynical campaigns.
People aren't going to be satisfied hiding their beliefs like there's something wrong with a living wage, guaranteed healthcare, abortion rights, or any of the panoply of progressive issues that are regularly put aside by candidates afraid of offending some conservative-minded voter.
Obviously these candidates' supporters aren't satisfied with the stealth approach to representing their issues and concerns. We'll see if they eventually subjugate those to support the election of one of these "left-wing of the possible" candidates.
melman
(7,681 posts)'an adjunct fellow at the Hudson Institute, is author of a history of the Democratic Party' according to the dailybeat bio.
here's the book in question.
https://www.amazon.com/Divided-They-Fell-Ronald-Radosh/dp/0684863626
adjunct fellow at a rightwing think tank and author of smear books.
Nice source
...
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)You should Google his criticisms. You seem to love it when he does it. Were told it is help.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...While describing itself as "non-partisan" and preferring to portray itself as independently "contrarian" rather than as a conservative think tank, the Hudson Institute gains financial support from many of the foundations and corporations that have bankrolled the conservative movement. The Capital Research Center, a conservative group that seeks to rank non-profits and documents their funding, allocates Hudson as a 7 on its ideological spectrum with 8 being "Free Market Right" and #1 "Radical Left."
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Hudson_Institute
BannonsLiver
(16,342 posts)She is above criticism or critique of any kind, apparently. If someone goes there even lightly whinging ensues from her followers.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...her critics believe their candidates of choice are made of glass.
Cha
(297,029 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)Look who supported his campaign according to the Mueller indictments. He is certainly useful to the RWers because of his criticisms of my party. Thats pretty hilarious that his criticism is coveted while others parroting him are maligned. Double standards again.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)..or not?
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)bigtree
(85,984 posts)...he'll be caucusing with Democrats and helping maintain our Democratic majority.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)criticisms helped the GOP. They micro targeted voters. Look who is in the White House. edit: re: double standards about criticism
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...that's happenstance and opportunism, not outright association with Sanders.
It's unfortunate, but it's sophistry to claim Sanders is deliberately complicit in all of that right-wing spin.
Look at what the Hudson Institute does. Their efforts are designed to do precisely what you're attempting here; to sow resentment against Democratic allies.
Diversion fail.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)have written it. It looks like you who is trying to sow resentment against Democratic allies. You cant cherry pick from the Mueller indictments and pretend Sanders criticisms didnt help the GOP.
Facts matter. Read the Mueller indictments.
Talk about diversion. You are the one introducing deliberate complicity This was about criticism of my party. Its applauded when it comes from one Senator. Double standards.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...under attack for having the temerity to challenge Democrats in power in a Democratic primary.
That's not sowing division. At least not in the real world.
Diversion #2 fail.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)You are trying to pretend that their attacks on my party are their God given right while trying to deny others from noticing what they are doing.
You should look at your own diversions.
You should read the Mueller indictments. That is the real world. Not your attempts to malign people who dont like incumbent Democrats being attacked in safe seats just to promote personalities.
You seem very invested in misunderstanding the fundamental issues here and instead try to personalize things. Its very obvious.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)Response to RhodeIslandOne (Reply #40)
bigtree This message was self-deleted by its author.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...his opponents in the primary are running as Democrats.
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but these Democratic rivals are competing for the chance to represent the state against the republican challenger. Voters will make up their minds who they want to take on that task.
In my view, the problem you ultimately have is with the people who are inclined to cast a vote away from the incumbent in that race, not the vehicles for that discontentment. Why are these Democratic rival's supporters inclined away from the legislator in power?
It's up to Carper to make certain those votes go his way in the general election, if he wins.
If not, he'll need to do what he can to deliver his supporters to the polls. It's not foreign territory. He can either posture against these candidates, or work to draw in their supporters, many of whom may well have sat out this election, save the appeals from these challengers.
It remains to be seen whether Carper can build on his voter base, and capitalize on that. It would make perfect sense to avoid, at the least, alienating this Democratic primary resistance to their incumbency.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)....to support an upstart, primary or not, over someone he currently caucuses with.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...I give it a C-.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)Have a nice day. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...to agree with your pov.
Smh.
sheshe2
(83,708 posts)JI7
(89,244 posts)sanders doesn't really work with other senators to get things done. that's why after being decades in office he only has the naming of post offices.
Cha
(297,029 posts)Well, here we are being "helpful". there better be just ONE Standard.
Voltaire2
(12,977 posts)That is why we control both houses of congress, the vast majority of states and have appointed liberal judges from the supreme court on down in record numbers.
Funny how the Republican Party never suffers by moving right or advocating policies that appeal to their base.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And, even if one were to agree with Radosh, how does campaigning in a safe GOP District elect more Republicans? If the District is safely gerrymandered to be far right, the GOP will win anyway.
Radish is being illogical on many levels.
JI7
(89,244 posts)and they are after some democrats who are more progressive than sanders who supported the NRA.
becsuse their reasons for supporting a candidate isn't whether they are progressive but only whether they supported sanders.
Squinch
(50,932 posts)the policies you espouse.
Cha
(297,029 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,918 posts)ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)exactly. Who cares what this nobody thinks?
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)so maybe they are onto something;
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)Clinton would have kept the sanctions in place and tightened them even more.
As SS (& as many on Intelligence committees know,) She well knew that Sanctions were what kept the Putin mob bosses from doing what they do around the world.
Bernie voted NO on the Magnitsky Act.
Repubs aren't afraid of Bernie.
Here:
MAGNITSKY ACT: The Biggest Threat To Putin's Regime [/b
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016211584
Repubs had to defeat Clinton to protect the demand from Putin to Lift Sanctions.
Note the vote as to Magnitsky Act.
DEMS All Voted Yes
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)I know he voted against the most recent bill. He is an idiot for doing that (twice). I am remaining tolerant of him only for the sake of unity; nothing should divide us right now even though I quietly just cant stand him and what he is doing to our party.
melman
(7,681 posts)This is false. Carl Levin, Jack Reed and Sheldon Whitehouse voted no.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Radosh seems to say that progressives should concede that certain areas are defined as center-right, but following this strategy would concede a huge part of the country and its voters to the far right GOP.
This is a recipe for losing.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)Remember him? The Fresh New Face of March?
ecstatic
(32,673 posts)Ocasio-Cortez, and whoever else helped usher us into fascism. This article provides even more examples of how clueless Bernie and his handlers are. He is not fit to be president. Period. Stay in Vermont!
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
been saying it for a couple years... Bernie needs to go back to work at his real job... maybe not stay in Vermont but represent us in DC
JCanete
(5,272 posts)How foolish is that shit? Really. I thought we were the side that cared about facts....
and Welder was leading in he polls against the republican. So what is all this nonsense and who is this fucking guy anyway?
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)It will be because of the same "We have to run centrist candidates because America is a centrist nation" drivel that has cost us 1000 seats and four presidential elections.
We, however, WILL forgive.
ecstatic
(32,673 posts)Just as Susan Collins can't run as a Ted Cruz in her district and vice versa, "our revolution" types are not going to fit in with every district.
I'm OK with finding the most liberal option that fits with specific districts, and hopefully in most cases, that person would be way to the left of Joe Manchin, etc.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)but you should run on what you believe in and give the people an option. Its not like running itself has the power to determine what the voters get. What is wrong with presenting the option?
Response to ecstatic (Reply #33)
Post removed
JI7
(89,244 posts)haven't read the piece yet. but sanders agenda isn't about helping democrats or progressives win.
it's about supporting those who support him and 0defeating democrats who oppose him even if it means republicans win the seat.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)My grandfather was a Democratic rep in the state legislature for years. To win , any Democratic candidate needs to be able to get some of those moderate Republican votes except maybe in the Kansas City/Wichita area. Kansas is primarily a rural state, which means people are on the conservative side. I can't see a DemSoc candidate winning there in a state-wide race against a Republican, not with FoxNews blaring on every TV.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)Bernie and AOC picked the wrong candidate if their goal was to get a Dem elected.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Radosh
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,318 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)outside the bounds. Welder was in fact leading the republican in the polls, so this point seems astonishingly dumb.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)KPN
(15,641 posts)center right ideologue. Radosh has always been about making the Democratic Party look inept and stirring internal strife. Good job supporting him with this OP.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...against Democratic nominees.
I guessed wrong.
Quixote1818
(28,925 posts)progressive candidates?
snowybirdie
(5,221 posts)Please don't tell me were starting another Bernie vs whoever here at DU! Let's ignore all the dissension and keep to defeating Repubs in Nov. He's not a Democrat btw!
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)because we have to make spaces for all voices. However, voters need to view their strategy from the perspective of how it serves Trump and the GOP in 2018 just as it did in 2016.
This is the paragraph that really stood out to me:
Harrington might have personally wanted Medicare for All, but he wouldnt have risked electing a Republican, in a state that voted for Trump, by campaigning for Welder, the most progressive candidate vying to challenge Republican Kevin Yoder. At a time when everyone knows that the only way to stop the Trump administrations policies is a Democratic takeover of the House, Michael Harrington would not jeopardize that goal when it might mean moderates and centrists might choose to either not vote or vote for Yoder. He would apply that same logic when it came to endorsing Thompson. At the rally, Thompson said others urged he be more centrist, a course he rejected as being nothing less than being Republican light.
So if Thompson wins the primary, Democrats are gonna have to work just as hard for him as they would for a moderate or centrist Democrat because the ONLY way we can protect our democracy at this point is to control both chambers of Congress. It's that simple.
Squinch
(50,932 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,115 posts)to a 28 year old Democratic Socialist, and a charismatic leader outside the mainstream, however popular he may be.
We will be sitting ducks, because right wing media will make it so.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)with a lot of republicon, and likely putin help.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)or is this just pulled directly from your ass?
empedocles
(15,751 posts)While the dems do not seem to be clearly on November. Instead dems do sloppy messages, and DO death march SOCIALIST - ABOLISH ICE stuff.
brush
(53,758 posts)with other Demstime, effort and money wasted IMO.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)She is just an inspiring progressive voice who managed to win a primary in a huge upset and many like-minded Democratic primary candidates are pleased to have her support.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)she is/could become one by default.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,168 posts)And because there are different levels, different applications, different interpretations of socialist policies adapted around the world means that Ocasio-Cortez and Sanders platforms must not fit them all, (not one could of course), and by his twisted logic, means they are 'lost'. . And so predicably he finds an example, and organization called the Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee started in 1973 by Michael Harrington, who has a slightly less ambitious version of the word. Thus by Radosh's short-sighted, one dimensional thinking, it means they must have made some kind of error. And are now "lost".
If ever there is a socialized medicare system put in place in the US it probably will not look like Sweden's. Hell, Swedens does not look or run exactly like Englands, or Canada's for that matter. There are different mixes of private and public services in all of them.
But the underlining connection between all countries with universal healthcare, no matter what percent is allowed to be administered by private companies, is that there is a basic level of guaranteed healthcare, including having a doctor, which includes being taken care of without any real cost, for traumatic injury or disease. That even if private insurers will not cover treatments, the government, by law, will always step in and provide the service. So in essence, they are all Single Payer, when you get right down to it. The basic principle that health care should be a right, not a privilege. That the pool of taxpayers mandatory payments are used to offset and spread the costs for everyone, is the same principle across the board of anyone calling themselves any kind of socialist. No one is 'lost' on that ideal.
But how the US organizes a Single Payer system would be unique, and difficult. Now that they have not followed the other western democracies when those others were implementing Single Payer, decades ago, means that the private system is much more entrenched, including having an army of lobbyists working 24/7 to stop any kind of government run system. How will the US deal with thousands of private insurance workers losing their jobs. Or with highly profitable doctors and hospitals having to share the wealth? It won't be easy, but it can be done.
But what a ridiculous article. There is no one perfect 'home' to stray from.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Not "just"
reACTIONary
(5,770 posts)..... idelogical stance. But that isn't what I got from the article, far from it. What I heard was that choices should be made situationally, not ideologicaly. In a center right district you don't go full pinko commie rad. You treat politics as the art and science of the possible.
Gothmog
(145,046 posts)bigtree
(85,984 posts)...some have her support.
Maybe not your candidate of choice. In the race where Davids is competing, for example, there's also another woman in that 6-way contest.
AOC is obviously supporting people of like agenda and those who supported her own campaign.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)Because Davids is just as progressive as Welders, so that can't be a reason she picked Welders over Davids.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...but, do go on and tell me how much Davids agrees with her.
She advocates a different candidate than you. Make of it what you will.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)What part of AOC and Bernie's "agenda" does this conflict with?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)These are all positions that Brent Welder has been espousing throughout the primary - and are the progressive positions that he shares with AOC.
Davids is a good candidate also, but Welder is definitely more progressive and to her left on economic issues.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)She also supports free state college for all who can't afford private college, and she also supports a higher minimum wage. And you are mistaking her support of Native American entrepreneurship with being to the right of Welder. She just has a broader economic position than Welder. https://www.shariceforcongress.com/priorities
Alas, she does not use Bernie's buzzwords, and she was not a campaign operative for Bernie, which appears to be her main disquailifier.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)She is an inspiration. She is a fine candidate. She is a solid mainstream Democrat. Those are all plusses compared to any Republican and Yoder for absolutely sure.
She is not progressive.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)She is very much a progressive.
crickets
Crickets from Davids critics in reponse to my post:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10910787
I'm not going to repeat myself just because you won't read the thread.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)You post your spin
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)Sharice believes -
The current Republican tax bill is a corporate giveaway and a handout to the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans.
Worst yet, the tax bill saddles our future generations with a crippling financial burden and further in debts our country to foreign nations, such as China.
Small businesses are the lifeblood of America and need to be front of mind when creating economic policy.
Modernizing our aging infrastructure is necessary to maintain our communities and our economies. It would create thousands of jobs and provide a foundation for decades of future growth.
Sharice plans to -
Fight for a true tax cut for the middle class.
Incentivize health care benefits for small businesses and create a small business standard deduction to lower administrative costs.
Create a childcare tax credit to help working families across America.
Support efforts to increase broadband access, which is key to economic success in the modern economy.
______________
Sharice believes -
Every student should have access to quality public education, regardless of their zip code, ability, or special needs.
Supporting early childhood education and afterschool programs benefits families and gives children more opportunities to succeed.
The cost of obtaining a college degree has skyrocketed and so has the likelihood of crushing student loans. We should be implementing policies that encourage and facilitate the opportunity for higher education.
Students should be exposed to careers in trades and technical areas - skills that are vitally important to a robust economy.
Sharice plans to -
Implement a holistic approach to education, focusing on access to quality public options from pre-K through secondary higher education and promoting strong, skills-based training programs.
Prioritize access to public education and facilitate ways for Congress to partner with and support states in implementing robust K-12 systems. Sharice will work to support opportunities to hone technical skills through apprenticeships and partnerships with community colleges and trade schools.
Support Head Start programs and ensure they are operating effectively. Sharice understands the importance of afterschool and summer programs for educational success, particularly in households where adults are working long hours to support their families.
Support policies that enable people to refinance student loans at lower rates and make it easier to renegotiate a loans terms.
Support initiatives such as loan forgiveness programs for those entering public service.
__________________
Sharice believes -
We must demand more than condolences from our lawmakers. We need swift legislation to enact common sense gun safety laws.
We can not allow legislators who accept millions of dollars from the gun rights lobby to continue risking the safety of our children and communities in exchange for campaign contributions.
Guns do have their place. As part of a military family, Sharice recognizes that firearms have a role in society. That place is not in schools, in hospitals, in mental health facilities, or in the homes of domestic abusers.
Sharice plans to -
Support a holistic approach to reducing gun violence and deaths in our country.
Treat gun violence as a public health issue, allowing us to study it and regulate it as such.
Never accept any campaign contributions or endorsements from the gun lobby.
Support expanded background checks and higher standards for conceal-and-carry permits.
Seriously, all of these are good policies but you'd be hard pressed to find a single Democrat who is to the right of any of the issues. Mind you, I think we should be proud of that fact BUT being no further left that the most right-leaning Democrats is not progressive.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)She is certainly to the left of red state Dems like Joe Manchin and Heidi Heidkamp, and probably to the left of Bernie, on guns, particularly her call for tougher requirements for concealed carry and refual to take money from the gun lobby. Bernie voted against the Brady Bill 5 times and still has not renounced his support of the PLCAA. It takes some guts to be pro gun control in a rural red state.
She is certainly a progressive Democrat on the economy, particularly her work with poor communities of color to spur entrepreneurship, since minimum wage hikes mean nothing if there are no jobs on a reservation. Davids is certainly progressive on social issues/civil rights. But she doesn't self-identify as a socialist. I realize that gives some folks the sads, but that does not make her any less of a progressive. How many progressive Dems fought alongside the Native Americans of Pine Ridge Indian Reservation to keep the Keystone XL pipeline from going through?
It is patently ridiculous and a smear to claim Davids is "no further left that the most right-leaning Democrats" and that she "is not progressive."
Regardless, pray tell why you would want a candidate in a red state who is outside the progressive Democratic mainstream?
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)You began by showing nothing more progressive than that Davids is to the left of Manchin and Heitkamp on guns, the two furthest right senators in the party (oh that and a bullshit attack on Sanders). You end by saying that me pointing out that she is to the left of only the most right wing in the party is a smear.
As I said, being mainstream as a Democrat is no sin and makes Davids and other centrist politicians a world better than any Republican. Unfortunately it appears her supporters are unwilling to support her based on that and her inspiring life story. No, instead they want to paint this as a contest between two people with identical political beliefs separated by some nefarious motivation which makes one of them repugnant.
It's pure Brock triangulation.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)Baby steps. Baby steps.
Obviously you're not a fan, since she doesn't foolishly and incorrectly invoke socialism to describe the progressive Democratic agenda.
bigtree
(85,984 posts)...pretending there aren't any differences is a strategy, I suppose.
Not a very good one, imo. ( I was being sarcastic about debating the details of these campaigns)
I don't think Welder or AOC is actually campaigning against any one of the six candidates in that race. He's actually campaigning in that contest for his chance to represent Democrats in the fall.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)Cha
(297,029 posts)home District 3 in Kansas.. and the AOC-BS bunch better not try to smear her with their favorite insult slurs.
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Welders supports Medicare for All, a $15 minimum wage, repealing the Trump tax cuts, tuition-free college.
Davids does not promote any of these positions.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)Regarding Medicare expansion, college tuition, and living wage, see my above post: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10910713
Regarding Trump tax cuts, here's what Sharice says:
https://www.shariceforcongress.com/priorities
Where the fuck did you get the impression she does not support repealing the Trump tax cuts?!
Cha
(297,029 posts)around spreading disinformation on Sharice Davids?!
Thank You for correcting the record, SunSeeker.
Guess I better get it down so if I encounter him spreading it again.. I'll whip this out. Mahalo!
Regarding Medicare expansion, college tuition, and living wage, see my above post: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10910713
The current Republican tax bill is a corporate giveaway and a handout to the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans. Worst yet, the tax bill saddles our future generations with a crippling financial burden and further in debts our country to foreign nations, such as China.
https://www.shariceforcongress.com/priorities
Bullshit on "Brent Welder is more "progressive than Sharice Davids.." Well, NO.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)randr
(12,409 posts)of how the Democrats are fractured and without a cohesive message.
Trump ended up with more Bernie supporters than Hillary had counted on.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Squinch
(50,932 posts)And it will lose us votes.
For once, given that the republic is at stake right now, we should present an unbreakable united front. But the usual gadflies won't allow that.
randr
(12,409 posts)they would defuse the frieght wing attack.
We ARE a nation of diversity, it is our strength. Democrats do not march in lock step because they believe the more voices at the table the better solutions are found.
EQUAL representation is important in a democracy, broad representation is a necessity.