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Mon Jul 23, 2018, 11:47 AM

Terrified moderate Dems terrified by the "Sanders Wing" that might actually help people

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/sanders-wing-party-terrifies-moderate-dems-here-s-how-they-n893381

Terrified Third Way Dems apparently include:

former Delaware Gov. Jack Markell

Rep. Tim Ryan, D-Ohio

Iowa state Sen. Jeff Danielson

Rep. Cheri Bustos, D-Ill

former New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu

Rep. Jim Himes, D-Conn


According to the article, they are all scared of "anger", rocking the boat, abolishing ICE, fighting in an "uncivil" way, single-payer healthcare, going after Democratic voters rather than trying to court Republican voters fed up with Trump.

Here's my favorite quote from the article:


"You're not going to make me hate somebody just because they're rich. I want to be rich!" Rep. Tim Ryan, D-Ohio, a potential presidential candidate, said Friday to laughs.


ha ha ha!!! That's funny because hating the rich is obviously what motivates the progressive wing of the party. Not actually wanting to take care of ourselves and our fellow citizens. Oh ho ho, Rep Ryan, you hilarious comedian.

Many of these people in the article are nominally Democrats, and we aren't supposed to criticize Democrats. I will say, however, that I disagree with their election strategy.

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Reply Terrified moderate Dems terrified by the "Sanders Wing" that might actually help people (Original post)
ProfessorPlum Jul 2018 OP
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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 06:31 PM

198. I call BS on the OP.. Awesome Dems are out there Winning All Over the Country and Actually Helping

People!

There are all kinds of Dems across the Country Fighting to TAKE the HOUSE with what works in their District.. think Conor Lamb and incumbent Eliot Engel in NY District 16..

For Democrats Challenging Party Incumbents, Insurgency Has Its Limits

snip//

Nancy Pelosi, the minority leader of the House of Representatives, recently made an appearance with Mr. Engel in his district and praised him profusely. “We couldn’t be better served than by Eliot Engel,” she said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/21/nyregion/congress-primaries-democrats-midterm-ny.html

"it’s the establishment wing of the Democratic Party that is having a good 2018. And, more important, it’s having a good year in the places that matter most this November."



"What about those other 19 primaries, where the establishment Democrat won? There are a lot more congressional battlegrounds in that group, 11 in total, including 5 true tossups."

snip// from your link..

But the stories this week about the surprising power of the left side of the party may have overstated the case a bit.

Going by the numbers, it’s the establishment wing of the Democratic Party that is having a good 2018. And, more important, it’s having a good year in the places that matter most this November.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/bernie-sanders-backed-nominees-score-wins-longshot-races-n888071

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Response to Cha (Reply #198)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:52 AM

230. Excellent post Cha.

But the stories this week about the surprising power of the left side of the party may have overstated the case a bit.

Going by the numbers, it’s the establishment wing of the Democratic Party that is having a good 2018. And, more important, it’s having a good year in the places that matter most this November.




We will rock you.

And Stacey Abrams.


Let's just keep moving this forward.

An apology

“We took too many people for granted,” Perez continued, “and African Americans—our most loyal constituency—we all too frequently took for granted. That is a shame on us, folks, and for that I apologize. And for that I say, it will never happen again!”

Applause broke out before Perez could even finish his apology, heads nodding in acknowledgment and appreciation.


An apology and as Abrams said:

Her nomination over Stacey Evans, a white woman, in May drew a surge of national attention, and the DNC’s decision to hold Thursday’s gala alongside an African American leadership summit in Atlanta brought major party donors to Abrams’s home base.

“Welcome to Georgia,” Abrams told the DNC donors on Thursday, before adding a gentle dig of her own at the party: “It’s about time.”

“Georgia is not a red state,” she continued, setting up one of her signature campaign lines. “We’re just blue and confused.”


It sure as hell is about time.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/07/the-democratic-party-apologizes-to-black-voters/565697/?utm_source=twb


Cha. We have so many good people out there. Their voice is being heard. We can do this.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #230)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 01:36 AM

235. Our Dems ARE Helping People.. "terrified of

BS".. lol I think it's just the opposite.

Thank You for bringing up Stacy Adam's wise words, she!
“We took too many people for granted,” Perez continued, “and African Americans—our most loyal constituency—we all too frequently took for granted. That is a shame on us, folks, and for that I apologize. And for that I say, it will never happen again!”

I know Hillary is happy to see this all unfolding because she never did!



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Response to Cha (Reply #198)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:58 AM

232. +1

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Response to Cha (Reply #198)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:58 AM

267. plus++ a gazillion!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 11:50 AM

2. Same old same old... maybe it's time for a new strategy?

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:01 PM

11. Hard to call Tim Ryan same old same old.

 

Thankfully he got spanked by a progressive when he made a move to become speaker.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #11)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 07:36 PM

208. I can't stand him. N/t

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 11:52 AM

3. The "Sanders wing" won't "help people" if Democrats don't win the election.

How many House districts could Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez actually win in?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 11:57 AM

8. All of them?

The alternative to AOC and Democratic Socialism has been the only strategy of the Democrats since the DLC.

And look at all of the winning!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #8)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:04 PM

12. How about Conor Lamb?

 

I guess March was ten years ago.

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Response to RhodeIslandOne (Reply #12)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:23 PM

34. Doh !

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #8)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:05 PM

13. OFFS

You complain about mainstream dems not taking you seriously, and then you say that?

No, Ocasio-Cortez would not win all or even most House districts. She would lose badly in districts more conservative than hers.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #13)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:08 PM

14. the question was how many _could_ she win in?

Offer the voters a chance to actually stop letting the rich/corporations get _all_ of the benefits of their labor, and we may be pleasantly surprised at how enthusiastic voters are towards these ideas.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #14)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:09 PM

16. There's about 15 or 16 House districts she could win

and we may be pleasantly surprised at how enthusiastic voters are towards these ideas.

Nope. You'll be painfully reminded how white voters who like these things for themselves would prefer to suffer rather than let non-white people benefit from them.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #16)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:30 PM

44. thank you for the look into the future, Kreskin

I agree that white Americans seem to consistently shoot themselves in the ass as long as they can stick it to a minority person at the same time.

Perhaps it is time that our marketing and messaging (and policies!) show them how pursuing their economic interests would be an even sweeter deal than screwing over someone from a different race. Instead, we get a lot of "we can't do anything that would make our corporate donors uncomfortable".

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #44)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:54 PM

67. I dig how you indict others for the same things you do

 

" thank you for the look into the future, Kreskin..."

I dig how you indict others for the same things you do. Now is the time to justify a distinction lacking a relevant difference to better maintain a creative patina of rationalism. Kreskin, indeed...

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #67)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:58 PM

75. Thanks!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #44)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:28 PM

106. Amen.

 

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Response to Recursion (Reply #16)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:32 PM

111. You nailed it

Exactly

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #8)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:19 PM

25. How many primaries have candidates like her won?

 

It's hard to claim they would win general elections when they don't win many primaries.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #8)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 05:21 PM

187. lol

This reminds me of the time the Bernie Bros were gonna take over Montana during that special election and then they were shown that one size fits all doesn't work!

Same here in northern MI where our CD is over 30 counties.

"The Democrats" are not some faceless monolithic entity, it is made up of people who are not all the same. We live in very different places with different concerns and the same answer will not fit them all.

Lastly, Democrats are not the enemy, remember?

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Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #187)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 07:33 PM

207. I remember that Democrats are not the enemy. We are Democrats

I note that the people in the article don't feel the same way.

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Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #187)


Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #187)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 01:44 AM

236. Straw man. No one is promoting a one size

fits all agenda. What is being promoted is a return (key word: return) to sensible priorities from the standpoint of what serves all citizens better if not best. The only “one size fits all” that is being promoted is what is best or better for all. We strayed as a party from that long ago. I’m 67. The “extreme left” being ridiculed here at DU (yes, being ridiculed) is what used to be known simply as Democrats from my perspective. If we aren’t pursuing what is better for all citizens, we are capitulating to the opposite and, in so doing, compromising our basic democratic principles. If anyone is against that, they are against fundamental Democratic Party values in my view.

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Response to KPN (Reply #236)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 05:14 AM

241. Well said

I thought the attitudes and defeatism in this article would be roundly condemned by Democrats at DU, who have heard this kind of "don't help anybody" kind of rhetoric before.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #8)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 06:02 PM

193. Highly inaccurate statement you are making here.

 

All of it.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #8)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:11 AM

253. you cant

possibly believe that.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #253)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 01:13 PM

275. How has the Sanders wing helped people since we lost in 2016?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:27 PM

41. Stop attacking her.

At least she won while last election
We lost to a con man.
People are hungry for real Chang !!!

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Response to Chickensoup (Reply #41)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:31 PM

46. I had the real Chang last week

too salty.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #46)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:59 PM

76. You should tly the fly lie.

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Response to Chickensoup (Reply #76)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:00 PM

80. will. . . .not . .. . laugh . . .

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #80)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:05 PM

85. Then u will cry alone!!

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Response to Chickensoup (Reply #85)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:08 PM

87. literally LOLing now

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #87)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:32 PM

179. for whatever it's worth I like u.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:02 PM

132. Luckily for all of us,

only one district matters in regards to Alexandria. More, she will win that district.

The best thing is for members of the Democratic Party -- and our elected representatives at all levels should lead on this -- focus on those things we have in common. There is no benefit from identifying others in the party as "the enemy."

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #132)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:15 PM

143. i agree, especially when they are meeting together

and organizing their message as if progressive Democrats and policies are the enemy. It doesn't benefit us as a party. I also happen to think that progressives have a much more winning set of policies, but that's a matter of opinion.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #132)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:22 PM

147. +1000

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:16 PM

272. Exactly!

We want to help people, then we make sure all Dems are competitive in their respective districts and drop this nonsense that one-size-fits-all, everywhere. Ocasio-Cortez is viable in her district. That doesn't mean she's viable in all districts. In fact, I'd charge that her appeal is limited to voters who support Democratic Socialism reducing her reach across the country, even within the Democratic Party.

If we fail to do what we need to do in November, all these brand/litmus/purity tests, all the headlined fights between liberals vs moderates, progressives vs liberals yada, yada will be meaningless and beside the point. Even more than they are now.

We need to win in November not only for the Democratic Party but for the country at large. This has become a National Security issue.

We need to be strategic and smart.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 11:53 AM

4. Looks like the Republican owned media has found something to split the Democratic party again.

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Response to docgee (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 11:54 AM

5. Exaxctly, they are even dusting off the term "third way."

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Response to FSogol (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 11:56 AM

7. Third Way is the name of the think tank that hosted this get together

you can't blame that on the media.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:16 PM

21. In the real world they are insignificant. On DU they are the most

Powerful boogie-man ever. See the 2016 election on DU.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #21)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:24 PM

36. Third Way is the most powerful boogie-man on DU?

Not sure I have seen that. However their ideas (corporations set the agenda, nothing should rock the elites) are quite common and usually vote killers.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #21)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:08 PM

169. "they are insignificant"?

lol
They are only the most influential force in the Democratic party for the last 30 years.

Triangulation or Third Way is what they call it. It means finding the elusive 'third way' by finding common ground with the greedy assholes on the other side. The idea being that even if it meant losing the respect of the more grassroot liberal party members, they'd make that up with enough Independents and disgruntled Republicans that would like their more 'pro-business' adjustment). It began with Bill Clinton's rise and the DLC where top corporate leaders were invited to shape policy in much larger prominent role for the party. It boiled down to 'if you can't beat em, join em' It was a time that the leadership thought the Republicans had gotten themselves in trouble too many times (read my lips) and now they could be beaten if we show them that we could be better at schmoozing the .1% than they had done. That we could threaten the social safety net too. We could be 'tough' on crime too (three strikes). We could abandon unions and promote charter schools over public schools too.

The only thing is that they miscalculated on just how far right the Republicans were willing to be pushed. The plan was to just roll over them because they had nowhere else to go, if we scooped up all the corporate money and loyalties. But they just packed their bags and went to "crazyland" as I fondly remember Jon Stewart admonishing John McCain during his primaries. They went into criminal territory, where nothing was off the table. They consolidated the RW media and created an efficient non stop barking attack dog on 24/7 and were not phased by using downright lies and disgusting baseless charges and CT. They promised THEIR corporate donors, many the same as Third Way Dems, a price match guarantee on any Dem promise of tax cuts or deregulation, and double it.

All going Third Way did to Democrats is push the Republicans into a position of abandoning the last shred of being a respectable Grand Old Party, and going all in on putting party ahead of country. Promising the corporate classes that if the Dems were promising to make them rich, then they would promise them they'd make them obscenely rich. Who cares at who's expense. It wouldn't be at theirs.

Anyways this Third Way, even if it is now the term that-shall-never-be-spoken-of, is still very active and powerful and is still the leading direction of the party. Its not a boogie-man at all. Its a millstone.

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #169)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:10 PM

171. BS. The DLC did not become the Third Way. The third way is minor un-notable think tank,

barely mentioned outside of DU.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #171)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:15 PM

173. Useful as a bogeyman, though, neh?

The DLC shut down long ago, and the Third Way is not known at all by most people. They are only useful when someone wants to demonize some Democrat.

At least that's how they're used in political discussion.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #173)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:23 PM

174. Exactly. n/t

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Response to FSogol (Reply #171)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:25 PM

176. The DLC and the Third Way as a policy, were tied to the hips.

But one was a steering committee and one was/is a school of thought. So you are technically correct. A think tank cannot become a policy.

But the DLC died in name only. It was purchased by the Clinton Foundation, who were big supporters. Surprise surprise. They just changed their name to "New Democrats".

https://truthout.org/articles/third-way-democrats-are-trying-to-push-the-party-rightward/

However, the victory dance was premature. The DLC was dead in name only. Even before it officially dissolved, its allies were laying the groundwork to continue its agenda. “I am a New Democrat,” Obama told the New Democrat Coalition in 2009, according to Politico. Obama’s unambiguous words of support to this faction of the party was notable, especially since for most of his career he has, as Politico noted, “largely avoided the Democratic Leadership Council.”

It is indeed telling that President Obama kept his distance from DLC, but still assured their people he was on their side. He knew the DLC name would hurt his carefully crafted image in the eyes of progressives, but in terms of general philosophy, Obama’s description of himself as a “New Democrat” was accurate. He embraced industry to a fault and kept his distance from the left. He relied solely on “market solutions” to health care, despite being a long-time supporter of single-payer.

He also hired DLC alumni often and in positions of importance, most notably appointing two White House chiefs of staff who were proud DLC allies: Rahm Emanuel and Bill Daley, the latter of which is a Third Way board member. “Visitor logs show that Third Way leaders have enjoyed excellent access to the Obama White House, with at least 50 visits since 2009,” reported the Boston Globe in 2014.

In this context, the White House’s decision to vigorously oppose Keith Ellison as chair of the Democratic National Committee, a move supported by New Democrats, makes plenty of sense.


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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #176)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:28 PM

178. Pure Claptrap.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #178)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:43 PM

181. Brilliant rebuttal

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #181)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:55 PM

183. Ham and Cheese!

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #169)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 06:37 PM

199. All of this happened in the 80s and 90s. Catch up. Or at least

give the Whigs equal time in your complaints. I'm sure you can find something to complain about in their policies. I bet they weren't progressive enough either.

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Response to docgee (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:36 PM

114. Yup

Notice the word "terrify." No bias there.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 11:55 AM

6. As a past supporter and actual delegate for Bernie

I can say I am not "terrified" at all by the Sanders Wing".
I am surely at a loss as to why they continue to buy into the fact that we can not defeat the evil we face without unity.

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Response to randr (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:00 PM

9. Because last election there was too much protest voting.

And now look what we have. Kind of makes people worried.

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Response to docgee (Reply #9)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:26 PM

39. If you have to explain it to them



republicans are loving this stuff. Wouldn't be surprised if they were looking for ways to fund the bernie fanatic candidates.

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Response to docgee (Reply #9)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:27 PM

40. A higher percentage of Saders voters voted for Clinton in 2016

 

Than Clinton supporters voted for Obama in 2008.

Schaffner's numbers show that after a bitter Democratic primary, more than 1 in 10 of those who voted in the primaries for the very progressive Sanders ended up voting for the Republican in the general election, rather than for the Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton.

...

For example, Schaffner tells NPR that around 12 percent of Republican primary voters (including 34 percent of Ohio Gov. John Kasich voters and 11 percent of Florida Sen. Marco Rubio voters) ended up voting for Clinton. And according to one 2008 study, around 25 percent of Clinton primary voters in that election ended up voting for Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., in the general. (In addition, the data showed 13 percent of McCain primary voters ended up voting for Obama, and 9 percent of Obama voters ended up voting for McCain — perhaps signaling something that swayed voters between primaries and the general election, or some amount of error in the data, or both.)


https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

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Response to mythology (Reply #40)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:17 PM

96. I absolutely don't believe the study that says 25% of Clinton voters went for McCain.

Among other things, this varies wildly with my experience IRL, where without exception every single Clinton voter I know dusted herself off and supported Obama, in many, many cases by putting boots on the ground and actually working, quite enthusiastically, for him.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #96)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 04:34 PM

184. CNN exit poll puts it at 17% voting for McCain.

Exit polls have 12 % of Sanders supporters voting for Trump over Clinton.

Compared that with 2008 when 17 % of Clinton supporters voting for McCain over Obama.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #184)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:28 AM

225. Not certain "a CNN exit poll" is a sufficiently accurate measure

 

According to a Gallup poll taken at the end of March 2008, only 59 percent of Clinton supporters said they’d vote for Obama and 28 percent of them said they’d vote for John McCain. Likewise, a Washington Post survey from May of that year found 26 percent of Clinton supporters promising to vote McCain and only 64 percent promising to vote for Obama.

As the Post noted on Wednesday, though, “Obama's support among Clinton primary supporters rose from 64 percent in May to 73 percent in mid-September, 79 percent in mid-October and 83 percent by Election Day, according to [a CNN] exit poll.”


does support = voted for ?

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Response to LisaM (Reply #96)


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:01 PM

10. They should listen to Stacy Abrams,

 

she has it right.

Namely, forget compromising on issues like civil rights and abortion access; run candidates who look like your base; and stop devoting so much time, energy and money to winning over people who will never vote for you. “My approach is this,” Abrams says. “I’m not going to spend a disproportionate share of our resources trying to convert Republican-leaning voters when we can invest in lifting up the voices of those who share our values. Because here’s the thing: I think our values are the right ones. And I think these values that are shared actually are going to be victorious on their own.”


https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/stacey-abrams-georgia-democrats-701308/

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Response to NY_20th (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:09 PM

15. great idea to stop pursuing Republican voters

and to make Democratic voters and Independents feel like their votes and views are respected and valued.

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Response to NY_20th (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:09 PM

17. The next governor of Georgia!

 

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Response to NY_20th (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:15 PM

20. She doesn't get the point of politics

It's to convert more people to your side. Ignoring people is a good way to lose big.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #20)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:18 PM

24. Which is why Republicans control all three branches of the fed government. They

try to outdo each other on appealing to Democrats! it's obvious.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #24)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 05:48 PM

190. Whenever I see folks try to bring up "well thats why republicans control all three branches" stuff

 

I like to remind them that correlation does not necessarily imply causation.

If you want to assert a cause for losing the branches, you need to prove it. Not just assert that other things were happening at the same time.

Just because I drop a penny a few seconds before a thunderstorm hits doesnt mean my dropping the penny caused the storm.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #190)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:30 AM

255. Whenever I see folks question the rightward shift of the party,

 

and ask for "causation", I like to remind them of what PARTY LEADERSHIP has wrought...

Chuck Schumer said this...

“For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

before the 2016 debacle....

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Response to disillusioned73 (Reply #255)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:06 PM

269. That has nothing to do with what I wrote. Your attempt at distraction does not change the facts

 

if you want to assert a cause for something, you need to prove it.

Again, correlation does not necessarily imply causation.

I know this is very inconvenient for some folks who simply want us to take on faith what they want to be true so we can all do exactly what you want us to do. It doesnt work that way.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #269)

Wed Jul 25, 2018, 08:11 AM

276. Yeah.. your right.. all is well - we're doing fine here..

 



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Response to disillusioned73 (Reply #276)

Wed Jul 25, 2018, 01:41 PM

277. No sale. If you want to control people's behavior, which is really what this is about. You need to

 

provide proof of your assertions.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #277)

Thu Jul 26, 2018, 11:04 AM

278. Control peoples behavior??..

 

your telling us not to not believe our lying eyes and I am trying affect behavior??.. no, I just don't buy the spin anymore.. I've seen what the rightward shift has done to "the people's party" - the statistics & facts are not on your side & really not worth my time to prove something too someone who refuses to accept the realities that are right in from of them..

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Response to disillusioned73 (Reply #278)

Fri Jul 27, 2018, 04:32 PM

279. Yep, that's what this is. You want people to do what you want them to do (vote a certain way)

 

and to justify that, you are using a completely unproven assertion.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #20)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:20 PM

28. I don't see it that way at all.

 

She believes our message is enough to win on and she's right. If voters ignore our message, they can't be won over.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #20)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:31 PM

109. so THAT'S how the pukes win!

 

they totally reach out to the other side! how could we have missed that???!?

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Response to shanny (Reply #109)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:33 PM

112. IKR? LOL

those devious Republicans. Always campaigning for higher minimum wage and healthcare for all.

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Response to NY_20th (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:23 PM

33. THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!

 

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Response to NY_20th (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:06 PM

135. I'm with Stacy. nt

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Response to NY_20th (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:48 PM

168. On MSNBC last week, one of the

panelists on the "tell me something new" type segments said that a GOP consultant told him that the Rs were worried about GA's governor's race. To me, seems like Abrahms is on the right track.

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Response to NY_20th (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:23 PM

175. Well said

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Response to NY_20th (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:53 AM

264. But isn't the Sanders wing trying to win republicans?

With the constant dog whistles about "working class/ people?" A lot of his voters flipped to trump.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:10 PM

18. what the hell is a 'moderate Democrat?'

...does that mean they're tepid Democrats?

They lean toward republican positions and republican initiatives, more concerned with upsetting republican voters than with including progressives in their representation.

This is as good an example of how they intend to treat what is a growing movement of Democratic voters (many compelled to participate in our party because of direct appeals to their progressive interests, initiatives, and concerns). They'd rather strain the party toward conservatism to attract republicans and conservative independents than expand their voting base by embracing progressive voters.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #18)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:21 PM

29. I would use the term "pragmatic" to describe a moderate Democrat.

Focus on the big picture and the obvious and dont waste time and effort on things that are impossible.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #29)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:22 PM

32. ah yes, "pragmatism"

the "eat your peas" approach to getting voters excited about you.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #32)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:31 PM

45. There's always Pokemon Go.



Do you refuse your breakfast unless your pancakes are shaped like Mickey Mouse?

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #32)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:31 PM

47. If eating peas gets us back in power and removes that lunatic from the WH..

that should be more than enough excitement for anyone.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #47)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:35 PM

55. "If eating peas gets us back in power" Relies on facts not in evidence

eating peas hasn't done much for us at all.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #55)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:40 PM

61. If all who claimed to be progressives supported and voted Democrats in the last election..

we would not be in the awful situation we are now in.

That's why peas are good for you even though you may not like them.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #61)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:52 PM

66. I think a huge percentage of them did

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #66)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:01 PM

82. Yes, perhaps, but clearly not all.

That small percent who didn't and bashed the party played a big role in creating the monumental mess we are now in.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #82)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:04 PM

84. we could have used everyone's help, for sure

and I understand why people would want less corporate butt smooching from the Democratic party.

but when the alternative was fascism, I hope most of my fellow progressives voted like their lives depended on it. I did.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #84)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:54 PM

124. I'm not fully onboard with Democratic party candidate and incumbent corporate

derričre kissing; however, to a certain degree, corporation butt smooching is necessary [🤔] and inevitable. Unfortunate, but true, in my estimation. JMWO.

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Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #124)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:56 PM

127. for now, of course. We've built a huge, corrupt (and corrupting) system

there is a certain amount of playing the game that must be tolerated.

but the sooner we change the game the better.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #127)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:19 PM

144. Understood. I have strong qualms regarding divisiveness, purity testing,

sour pusses when a choice of nominee fails or when one fails to get a nomination.

Get Dems elected, then advance to liberal +/ progressive. Not hog wild or bust or we will
experience 'bust'.

This critical election coming up, I pray, will be the turn around point to right our nation's ship.

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Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #144)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:26 PM

150. that is my fervent hope

as well. It has to happen.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #150)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:35 PM

160. Gotta. Just gotta.



💙🇺🇸🌊

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #61)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 04:44 PM

186. If union members had supported and voted Democrats in the last election...

425 of union members voted for Trump. Why aren't we blaming them?


If Latino voters had supported and voted Democrats in the last election...

28% of Latino voters voted for Trump. Why aren't we blaming them?


Etc.

They are part of the big picture too. Strange that the blame tends to land mostly on "progressives"



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Response to progressoid (Reply #186)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 06:08 PM

194. During the last election many Progressives relentlessly criticized us who supported Hillary Clinton.

We and her were called Corporatists, Republican lite, DINOs, etc as if they were better Democrats than we were. I think we now all realize that supporting Hillary and other moderate/pragmatic Democrats would have been the wise thing to do considering where we are now.

Of course there are many to blame for Trump and the losses in Congress but clearly the self proclaimed "smartest" Democrats deserve a big part of the credit.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #194)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:01 AM

217. I can't post some of the things I heard Hillary supporters say about Obama during the 08 campaign

It would get removed as hate speech.

So, based on my anecdotal experiences, should we declare that most Hillary supporters were racists? Probably not a reasonable deduction.

So many Democrats pride themselves in their pursuit of facts over emotion. It's often stated here that "truth has a liberal bias" Yet, too often we find ourselves debating anecdotal evidence rather than empirical evidence.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #217)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:11 AM

220. Not comparable at all.

There was no Hillary or bust movement or any push to vote third party. I suspect every Hillary supporter ended up happily supporting and voting for Obama.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #220)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 04:12 AM

238. Your suspicion would be incorrect.

Exit polls say that in 2008, 17 % of Clinton supporters voted for McCain over Obama.

In 2016, 12 % of Sanders supporters voted for Trump over Clinton


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Response to progressoid (Reply #238)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 05:30 AM

242. If you recall there was a group called the PUMAs back then.

They claimed to be Hillary supporters but were racists and hated Obama. Those people should not even be considered as Democrats.

I stand by my claim that real Democrats that originally supported Hillary Clinton ended up happily supporting Obama. There was nothing like the BOBs or Susan Sarandons or Jill Steins. There was party unity and that helped tremendously.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #242)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:20 AM

246. Ah, the "No True Scottsman" comeback.

Oh well.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #47)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:25 PM

149. Wasn't "pragmatism" the battle cry of the winning side of the primary this last round?

How did that work out for us being in the WH? Or in power at all?

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #149)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 06:25 PM

195. It would have worked out fine..

had it not been for:

-- Bitter Bernie or bust progressives refusing to vote or voting third party
-- Comey's last minute announcement about reopening the email case against Hillary
-- Russian interference in the election

I think if any one of those items above did not happen she would have won.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #29)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:29 PM

42. they are actually defined by what they vote for. I don't trust those votes.

...

I don't trust their Supreme Court votes.

I don't trust their votes on climate change.

I don't trust their votes on immigration.

I don't trust their votes on taxes.

I don't trust their votes on Social Security.

I don't trust their votes on abortion.

I don't trust their votes on gun safety.

I don't trust their approach to 'law and order.'

I don't trust their votes on military engagements.

I don't trust their votes.


(I always vote, and I always vote for Democrats.)

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Response to bigtree (Reply #42)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:32 PM

49. You have a "trust" problem.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #49)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:35 PM

53. doesn't take a genius to understand that this isn't just my problem

...but you sounded snappy, so, win.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #29)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:14 PM

141. OH! Let's bring the woodchuck back to life, shall we?



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Response to bigtree (Reply #18)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:50 PM

182. You must live in a very small world. Moderate Democrats are the backbone of the Party.

 

Call them names, and ignore their "wants" and you end you losing elections. Us moderate Dems want to know exactly how free healthcare and college are going to be paid for. None of this "tax the wealthy and corporations" nonsense. Spell it out as to how it can be achieved. But here really is only one way, and that is to keep moderate Dems at the voting booth. Far too many stayed home in 2016. They won't vote GOP. They won't vote 3rd party. Instead, they will not vote at all.

THAT is what a moderate Democrat is. THAT is who WE are. Keep up this nonsense about elevating someone up onto a pedestal will only equal losing. But then, I doubt you understand that.

Frankly, I'm sick to death of this "progressive" stuff. Either you are a Democrat, or you aren't. Either you vote Democrat, or you vote GOP or third party. Try to run a congressional campaign in WV like you would in NY and you'll lose every time.

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Response to tonyt53 (Reply #182)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 04:38 PM

185. I love the last part you wrote

..come together, just not in WVa.

Got it.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:14 PM

19. Democrats need to focus on getting elected

Not on calling each other out. These kinds of posts don't help elect Democrats.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #19)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:20 PM

27. they do if they encourage Democratic leaders and candidates to embrace progressive

ideas. Which are massively popular with Democrats and Independents.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #27)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:29 PM

43. I think we need to embrace whatever it takes to win back Congress and the WH.

Criticizing our leadership because some think they aren't progressive enough does not help with that effort.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #43)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:37 PM

58. please examine that list

and tell me who is in "leadership".

I think that being more progressive will help us both in policy and in politics, but your mileage may vary, of course.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #27)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:23 PM

102. For the most part "progressive" candidates have lost, and in many cases...

...lost by a larger margin that so-called "centrist" Democrats.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:16 PM

22. "Third Way Dems" --- Oh brother! GMAFB!

Terrified moderate Dems terrified by the "Sanders Wing" that might actually help people





Terrified Third Way Dems
Oh brother! GMAFB!



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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #22)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:18 PM

98. That term must have focus grouped very well in St Petersburg

Here in the states it sounds like a bad Google translation.

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Response to Generic Brad (Reply #98)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:15 PM

142. LOL! Exactly!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:17 PM

23. Fuck that noise.

Cheri Bustos is not terrified about anything. She won her district by 20%.

And do you know who votes for her? White working class males. Just the people the purists on the left whine about winning over.

Cheri is no nominal Democrat. And who mentored her? Dick Durbin.

This article sucks.

Here is Cheri:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/12/cheri-bustos-trump-territory-democrats-215126

I consider HER the future of the Democratic Party.

Cheri is also taking leadership positions:

https://bustos.house.gov/house-democrats-round-leadership-posts/

And she runs a regular program called, "Build the Bench." They train new young leadership for future elected positions. Many of the trainees are women.

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Response to murielm99 (Reply #23)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 05:55 PM

192. THIS



And do you know who votes for her? White working class males. Just the people the purists on the left whine about winning over.

Cheri is no nominal Democrat. And who mentored her? Dick Durbin.


And this

And she runs a regular program called, "Build the Bench." They train new young leadership for future elected positions. Many of the trainees are women.



From you link, geez murial...she is amazing.

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Response to murielm99 (Reply #23)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 09:35 PM

210. Cheri Bustos for House Speaker!

Time for Nancy Pelosi to ride off into the sunset after a marvelous career... and to turn the gavel over to the next generation.

And Cheri is totally badass!

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Response to farmbo (Reply #210)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 02:56 AM

237. I think she may be house speaker someday,

or vice president. But not yet. We need Nancy for quite a while.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:20 PM

26. The Democrats have been doing pretty well electorally since Trump was elected

And AFAIK they haven't all been Bernie clones, who have, in fact, won few primaries and fewer general elections.

But let the division of the Democratic Party continue apace in the light of the upcoming midterms where we NEED to win big.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #26)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:21 PM

30. this is true

they aren't all social democrats. however, it would be great to be able to win when things aren't going completely to hell as well.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #30)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:26 PM

38. I can't speak as to why that isn't happening

or why things fell so totally apart on all levels (legislatively) while Obama was President. I blame voter apathy for that. Our people don't pay as much attention to the midterms as they should. But progressives werent' really running and winning much then either, so..........

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #38)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:34 PM

52. progressives are garroted pretty routinely by the party in primaries

I agree with you the Democrats have been terrible at mid terms. Their (the national party) whole focus for years seems to have been for the most part on the Presidency.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:22 PM

31. Vote your conscience or preference in your primary

Vote Dem in the general...everything else is argumentative bullshit.

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Response to pecosbob (Reply #31)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:32 PM

48. yes, a good strategy

more Dems first, and then better Dems.

But better Dems too if we can get them sooner

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #48)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:33 PM

50. yes...but never forget that a blue dog is in fact, still a dog.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:24 PM

35. I really don't care if the moderate wing is terrified of the liberal wing or

the liberal wing is terrified of the moderates. Vote for the person with the "D" after their name without giving them a purity test. Otherwise, the country is at risk . . . seriously.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #35)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:36 PM

57. Nicely put!

Unfortunately I'm starting to get the feeling that some candidates seem to think they are more worthy than others and will have no problem blowing up the system for a later "cure".

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:24 PM

37. LOL

Who isn't terrified of a 76 year old junior senator from Vermont.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:34 PM

51. Way too many divisive threads like this turning up. I'm suspicious. (nt)

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Response to Paladin (Reply #51)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:35 PM

54. I'm suspicious, too. n/t

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Response to Paladin (Reply #51)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:36 PM

56. Yep. Names we haven't seen in ... why, it must be almost two years, now! How time flies.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #51)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:38 PM

59. I arranged to have Third Way hold a meeting ridiculing progressives

and then arranged to have NBC report on that meeting

just so I could start this thread. My plans are working beautifully.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #59)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:44 PM

118. Nice work!! hahaha!!

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Response to Paladin (Reply #51)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:43 PM

63. don't mention the numerous AOC attack threads

... several seem pinned to the top of the forum. Apparently they're right and fine.

This article is enlightening:

"Party members and fundraisers gathered for an invitation-only event to figure out how to counteract the rising progressive movement."

That bears discussing, whether someone finds it 'divisive' or not.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #63)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:43 PM

180. Yes, exactly.

I find it hilariously absurd, and I like absurd humour, that a Democratic leaning, liberal for the most part, disscussion board has members that run screaming, frantically pushing the alert button as they run for the apron strings, when anyone dares to want to discuss subversion like this from the right spectrum in the party. That the conservative wing of the party can scheme and smear and openly try and derail the more liberal wing of the party, but gawd help you if it was the other way around.

That Bernie and other libs can give constructive criticism and be pillared

But this Third Way and other cons can not just criticize, but openly scheme to destroy a large segment of the party, and that's ok.

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #180)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 05:07 AM

239. Thank you, me too

That does seem to be the message.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:39 PM

60. Rising Tide Lifts All Boats

The progressive wing needs to speak plainly about how it all works. Pay most everyone a living wage, with low cost universal healthcare....they then have the resources to buy products and services, everyone wins. Inequality is greatly reduced. Ocasio-Cortez explains this as well as anyone.

The right has been pushing the snake oil of trickle down for decades, it does not work. Look at what Brownback did to Kansas.

Right now perpetual war and tax cuts for people and corporations who do not need it are bankrupting us and leaving crumbs for the lower class.






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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #60)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:41 PM

62. totally agree

I would love for all Democrats to embrace this very basic economic reality (even Bush pere called trickle down "voodoo economics" in the 70s because it obviously does not work). That act itself is now considered "progressive" and, for some in the party, terrifying.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:45 PM

64. Wouldn't it make more sense to go after republicans instead of fellow Democrats?

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Response to George II (Reply #64)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:54 PM

68. Yeah... you'd *think*, wouldn't ya?

Wouldn't it make more sense to go after republicans instead of fellow Democrats?
Yeah... you'd think, wouldn't ya?

Anyone still clinging to their irrational hatred and resentment (and still using "Third Way" as a pejorative) always makes me suspicious.

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Response to George II (Reply #64)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:56 PM

71. By who? When is it going after other democrats and their messaging and when is it just being

 


pragmatic? When Ryan totally reframes the argument in as inflammatory a way as possible wouldn't it make more sense for him to fight republicans?

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Response to George II (Reply #64)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:00 PM

81. yep

from the NBC article:

"Party members and fundraisers gathered for an invitation-only event to figure out how to counteract the rising progressive movement."


Counteract? When did progressives become enemies to the party?

"Where progressives see a rare opportunity to capitalize on an energized Democratic base, moderates see a better chance to win over Republicans turned off by Trump."


They're 'going after republicans' alright, while plotting to 'counteract'progressives.

What about 'work to draw progressives into the party' as a goal? This is ugly.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #81)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:30 AM

254. Third Way?

Of course, I'm sure you forgot to mention that this was Third Way, right? I'm sure you didn't leave that out on purpose to look like you were talking about the Democratic party as a whole. Even though you linked to this article that is kind of sort of implying that it's the Dem party as a whole even though they mention that it's actually Third Way. It's not like our media is never working to divide us and push that Dems in Disarray! narrative.

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Response to kcr (Reply #254)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:41 AM

257. what a weird and insidious game you're playing here

...the article was clear. These conservative Democrats are plotting to 'counteract' progressives while courting republican voters.

Dance around that if you want. Pick it apart and play it every which way but loose.

Fact is, these conservative Democrats are plotting to 'counteract' progressives while courting republican voters.

That's pretty fucked up. This is actual voter suppression. Self-described 'moderate' Democrats plotting to suppress the vote and influence of a major voting bloc of our party.

I read these 'moderate Democrats' as 'tepid Democrats' in this effort

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Response to bigtree (Reply #257)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:46 AM

260. Really? Clarifying things by pointing out the facts is insidious?

Huh.

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Response to kcr (Reply #260)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:51 AM

263. you had your moment

...I'm blocking you now.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #263)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:54 AM

265. I'm heartbroken

That someone who thinks it's my "moment" to have their posts read by them is blocking me. Good lord.

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Response to George II (Reply #64)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:10 PM

89. +1000

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:46 PM

65. Moderate/Centrists are the true progressives

 

I've been active 43 yrs, marching, donating, working as a volunteer and paid staff, for Democrats. We "centrists" keep pushing the country a bit further toward progress. We don't just huff and puff and shade true, registered Democrats b/c "revolution" or "oligarchs"..

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Response to poetshepherd (Reply #65)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:57 PM

73. I can make no sense of this post

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #73)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:00 PM

78. I think some puffing is going on.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #78)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:34 PM

113. and fluffing

 

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #73)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:27 PM

153. there is no sense to make.

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Response to poetshepherd (Reply #65)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 05:43 PM

189. Welcome to DU.

You may find that there are peeps that don’t understand the concept of throwing shade, or that all politics are local. One piece of garlic is to suggest: show us ten years of tax returns.

Laters.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:54 PM

69. Why do we need a new freedom caucus?

I do not think that we need a new liberal Freedom Caucus


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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:55 PM

70. Better Believe It!!

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #70)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:19 PM

146. LOL!



Made me spit coffee, Mrs. Coffee!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:56 PM

72. I'm a bigger fan of the warren wing. And she doesn't use fear tactics against me.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #72)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 08:16 AM

243. This exactly

Elizabeth Warren has been in Congress for a much shorter time than Bernie Sanders, yet she has gotten more progressive policies passed.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:57 PM

74. "Third Way Dems?" Again?

What other defeatist terms from 2016 will we start to see, now that primary season is almost over? This is so freaking transparent, you know.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #74)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:59 PM

77. that's the name of their own organization

I didn't make it up

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #77)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:08 PM

86. It's an out-of-date, slanderous shibboleth.

That's what it is. It signals the intent clearly, though.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #86)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:09 PM

88. do not get

who is slandering whom?

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #88)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:11 PM

90. I won't waste any more of my time.

Good luck to you!

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #90)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:13 PM

92. Ok, thanks. I didn't call them Third Way, it was the name of the group that organized the meeting

I would probably call them "corporate friendly" or "DLC" Democrats, or something.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #92)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:15 PM

94. Of course you would call them those things.

And here you are, doing just that.

I remember. I remember everything.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #94)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:16 PM

95. Oh no. I wouldn't have said anything if I thought you would

remember it. Damn it!

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #94)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:19 PM

100. I didn't realize your love for Cheri Bustos would brook no argument

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #100)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:27 PM

104. Not my district.

Yours? I don't vote in Illinois.

But, you're back, I see.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #104)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:32 PM

110. Back from where

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #110)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:37 PM

115. Posting stats are visible to everyone.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #115)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:46 PM

120. are you talking about this spring when I was battling cancer?

but reading DU frequently, even if I wasn't posting?

Otherwise I've been posting pretty steadily since 2001, when I joined.

What are you implying, exactly?

Not sure the hostility. I've enjoyed your posts in the past. Didn't realize you were so corporate friendly.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #90)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:11 PM

137. You probably shouldn't

 

Because trying to say that the actual name of the think tank is 'slanderous' is really ridiculous.

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Response to melman (Reply #137)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:12 PM

138. I see. Haven't seen you around for a while.

Are you going to be more active now?

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #138)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:14 PM

140. You should take a closer look at those 'posting stats'

 

I'm here all the time.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #138)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:38 PM

163. I think you are starting to see boogeymen (boogeypersons?)

Where none exist. And the imputed slander is not terrible attractive either.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #77)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:43 AM

258. What's slanderous is tarring the entire Democratic party

by implying that this group is their leadership. Just one in the arsenal of tools that Bernie and his crowd use that I object to and the reason I will never support him.

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Response to kcr (Reply #258)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:49 AM

262. Let me know when somebody does that

In the meantime, try to improve your remedial reading skills.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #262)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:09 PM

270. You. In your OP.

Unless you really believe that everyone outside the Bernie movement loves those guys. Everyone, the whole wide Dem party, and all their supporters are all conspiring to push out the Bernie left because we are all ideologically just like the Third Way. If so, that's embarrassingly stupid. Otherwise, it's the typical argument that leaves out other details by omission to leave the reader to fill in their own blanks. No nuance whatsoever. It serves Bernie's interests because he wants voters to think he and is acolytes are the only solution in an otherwise corrupt and evil world. He doesn't seem to care that hurts everyone else.

I'm sorry. I just can't take it seriously that you are getting so up in arms about one supposed meeting. Sabotage! End of the fucking world! And yet primarying incumbents is totally harmless! That's just democracy!

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Response to kcr (Reply #270)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:15 PM

271. Strawman much?

I actually listed the politicians from the article. There were like 7-8 of them. Not the "whole wide Dem party".

I am trying to serve the interests of Democratic Socialists and good progressive policies. That used to be called the Democratic party.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #271)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:18 PM

273. No. You only acted like it was the whole damn party.

Because really. 7 or 8 Dems having a meeting isn't progressives being silenced or attacked by the party. Hyperbole doesn't even describe what that is.

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Response to kcr (Reply #273)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:20 PM

274. welcome to ignore, you liar

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #74)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:02 PM

83. Scary: Third-way Dems gonna git ya!

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #74)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:13 PM

91. It's where they met. It's where they're organizing

...this effort to 'counteract' progressives as they work to attract republican voters.

That's one cynical strategy.

I like this quote:

"The only narrative that has been articulated in the Democratic Party over the past two years is the one from the left," former Delaware Gov. Jack Markell told NBC News.

and this one:

"You're not going to make me hate somebody just because they're rich. I want to be rich!" Rep. Tim Ryan, D-Ohio, a potential presidential candidate, said Friday to laughs.

this one gets me all tingly:

Rep. Cheri Bustos, D-Ill., a member of the House Democratic leadership who represents a district Trump won, invoked Richard Nixon's "silent majority."

"If you look throughout the heartland, there's a silent majority who just wants normalcy. Who wants to see that people are going out to Washington to fight for them in a civil way and get something done," she told reporters.

...but hey, 'boo' on the op mentioning the name of the think tank that's referenced in the article. Boo! Hiss!

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Response to bigtree (Reply #91)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:15 PM

93. Is the name of the think tank a problem?

I must have missed that memo . ..

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #93)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:19 PM

99. it's a good vehicle to steer around substance, and a trigger here at DU

...remembering the dark days of the 'Third way' wars. The casualties, the needless carnage.

I'd go with conservative Democrat, but I've been scolded for that, as well. That org is like the DLC. It's just a conduit for conservative Democrats' policy positions and initiatives. But it's used as a pejorative label here, so it's best to just avoid it if you want to avoid all of this reaction to the name, and get more of a focus on the substance of your post.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #99)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:21 PM

101. hmmm. thanks for the clarification.

It's kind of tough to avoid the phrase when that is what this group is calling themselves.

I'm glad I missed the action.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:00 PM

79. Terrified? Nope

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:17 PM

97. They always claim 'big tent' when they want us to vote for right wingers. nt

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:26 PM

103. How can there be a "Sanders wing" of the Democratic Party when Sanders isn't a Democrat?

 

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #103)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:29 PM

107. keep thinking. you'll figure it out

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #107)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:58 PM

128. Sorry... if he isn't willing to register as a Democrat, I'm not willing to acknowledge his "wing"

 

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #128)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:04 PM

133. jesus, talk about old talking points

yet, some Democrats quite like his policies. And many many voters do too.

Let's not discourage good policies and lots of voters choosing our party, shall we?

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #133)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:07 AM

218. I Don't "like" BS always throwing insults at our Democratic Party.. here in his Own words..

Bernie Sanders 'deeply humiliated' Democrats lost white working-class voters

snip//

Washington (CNN) — Sen. Bernie Sanders expressed his disappointment Monday with Hillary Clinton's failure to secure the support of white working-class voters in last week's presidential election.

Donald Trump "very effectively" tapped into "the anger and angst and pain that many working class people are feeling," the Vermont independent senator who challenged Clinton in the Democratic primary said on "CBS This Morning."

snip//

"I think that there needs to be a profound change in the way the Democratic Party does business," Sanders said. "It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to where I came from."

www.cnn.com/2016/11/14/politics/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-loss-working-class-voters/index.html

That was just after the Rigging in of trump by the Russians and all their enablers.

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #103)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 06:29 PM

197. There Isn't.. and No one is "terrified" either.. it's

BOGUS BS.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:28 PM

105. We'll see how helpful the "Sanders Wing" are, once the primaries are over. It shouldn't take that

long to find whether they continue to attack the majority of the Democratic Party for not being "pure" enough, or whether they join with the majority of the Democratic Party and take the fight to the Republicans. And that includes dropping dumbass rants about "Abolishing ICE". Reforming ICE is one thing but demanding the Abolition of ICE will just hand a free gift to Republicans.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #105)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:31 PM

108. abolishing ICE as it exists now

and reforming ICE are the same thing. And progressive candidates should be enormously helpful in fighting against the completely corrupt and wholly corporate-owned Republicans.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #108)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:40 PM

116. You continue down the Abolish ICE trail and you will have saturation coverage of ads saying that

Democrats want to abolish ICE to give a free pass to "MS13, rapists, murderers blah blah blah". Your "as it exists now" will be lost in the dustbin of the history.

"Reforming ICE so babies aren't ripped from their mothers" is a world of a difference to "Abolishing ICE as it exists now". The GOP will (and have already) jumped on AOC's statement. That was at best naive.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #116)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:48 PM

121. We can have better sound bites and also better policies

ICE has become the gestapo. They will only be mourned by racists, who won't vote for Democrats anyway.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #121)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:53 PM

123. Well then come up with sensible policies to reform ICE and campaign on that. That's something likely

to attract widespread support. Running around the country shouting "Abolish ICE" as AOC is doing, is handing a free gift to the Reps. as I said earlier, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt that she is just naive, but someone needs a chat with her.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #123)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:58 PM

130. I'll let AOC pick her messaging, she seems to be doing just fine

I can understand why you think it is perhaps not the best messaging for the party as a whole.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #116)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:25 PM

148. It is analogous to killing NAFTA, Korean Trade Deal, and the Trans-Pacific Free Trade Agreement

This is where I parted company with Sanders. We are seeing what has transpired when Trump pulled out of these agreements. The Trans-Pacific trade agreement, for example, would have resulted in 18,000 foreign tariffs on American products being lifted. It is agreed that there were issues with the agreements, but would have been far better to work to correct them than to trash them. The same with ICE. We must have secure boarders, it only the administration of ICE that is in question and that is solely the blame of this administration. The ICE personal will do what the are told to do. Its really that simple. If they are commanded to do separate the children they will. The problem is this damn administration.

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Response to olegramps (Reply #148)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:29 PM

156. The thing is

we had border security before ICE.

ICE isn't needed for legitimate functions, and their illegitimate functions are quite frankly inhuman.

As a campaign message, this may or may not be a good one depending on how it is handled. But abolishing ICE (and moving its personnel into different, less nazi-like positions) is a perfectly good policy.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #105)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:41 PM

117. icymi

 

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Response to shanny (Reply #117)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:46 PM

119. Yes I saw it, but that's irrelevant to feeding Rep talking points.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #119)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:53 PM

122. sorry but the pukes are going to have nasty over-the-top talking points

 

no matter WHAT we do. can we please stop allowing them to set the framing? thanks in advance

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Response to shanny (Reply #122)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:54 PM

125. Then don't GIVE them a free gift of an over the top talking point !!!

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #125)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:00 PM

131. We could, for example, shove their love for ICE and their Nazi tactics

right up their asses. Make THEM explain why they don't want to abolish ICE, even though it is fascist, antithetical to our laws and system of laws, and separates and destroys families of refugees.

For fuck's sake.


Make THEM fear to talk about ICE. Two can play at that game, you know, and not every strategy should be based on your fear.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:58 PM

129. How much longer a we going to continue to drive a wedge in the Democratic Party

 

and allow the Republicans to remain in control because of it?

Is this being done by Republicans masquerading as Democrats, so they can wreak havoc?
Are these Russians continuing to cause problems in the United States for their own benefit?

Or are these really some naive Democrats that are still being tools for both Republicans and Russians?

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #129)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:05 PM

134. I agree

these Democrats shouldn't be meeting together and trying to drive a wedge between voters and progressive Democrats. It's not cool.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #134)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 10:12 PM

213. No, you don't agree

 

You continue to separate us into "progressive" Democrats and "DLC" Democrats and continue to pit one group against the other.

We are ALL Democrats. And until people like you realize we need all of us and we need to quit looking down on one faction or another, we'll continue to be in the minority party.

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #213)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 11:07 PM

214. sorry, did I do that? Or did the people in the article separate themselves and

pit themselves against another group of Democrats? I want that behavior to stop, too, and I don't want those feckless cowards who did it to put a shiv into progressive ideas, progressive Democrats, or a strong, forceful message.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #214)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 11:19 PM

215. Yes, you have done it and you continue to do it n/t

 

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #129)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:27 PM

152. I suspect it is not naivete. I suspect it is malicious. The tells are all there.

Just look for the words "third way" and "corporatist" and you'll have your answer.

As another poster pointed out, it seems like those must have worked really well in the Russian test group.

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #129)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:28 PM

155. We don't need division for crying outloud. Unity, Unity!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:07 PM

136. Sanders Democrats want to bring the functions of ICE under some authority

 

that is accountable. There is no discussion of abolishing the legitimate work that ICE does. It's about making it more transparent and law-abiding.

All human beings deserve rights under the law, the right to a fair hearing, due process, respect. Those are rights due to every human being on this earth, especially if they are in the United States. That is what we stand for as a nation.

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Response to Sophia4 (Reply #136)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:13 PM

139. well stated

I totally agree

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:19 PM

145. Tim Ryan makes around $147K

 

Yes, I know cue the usual apologists with "That's not that much in a lot of places!!!!".

But yeah. In rural Ohio, his district.....it is.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #145)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:29 PM

157. Plz,,,,,,,These crooks would work with no salary,,,,

most their money comes under the table to off shore accounts,,,,, their salary is just pocket change!

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Response to vi5 (Reply #145)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:30 PM

158. you can almost support a family in the Boston area

with that. It's plenty.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #158)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:43 PM

167. Oh, I know that....

 

.....I live in one of the most expensive areas in the country and $147K is plenty. But you have the usual frightened children around here who go crazy when anyone dares to imply that $100 is doing just fine.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:26 PM

151. A little bit strange today...

The little bit I have looked at DU, I have seen three paranoid threads that partition Dems against each other.

We need to unite and figure our differences after the election! The main goal is saving our democracy.

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Response to BittyJenkins (Reply #151)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:27 PM

154. .

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Response to BittyJenkins (Reply #151)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:32 PM

159. yeah, again, I'm not sure the threads (like mine) are the problem

rather the meetings where some office-holding and past office-holding Democrats are conspiring and building fear up of other Democrats that makes me a little worried/angry. Especially when the other Democrats are progressives with policies that might actually improve things.

And I agree, the most important thing is the great blue wave in November.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #159)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:42 PM

166. You may not be sure, but most of the rest of us are.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #166)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 06:42 PM

201. +1. (n/t)

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Response to BittyJenkins (Reply #151)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:10 PM

172. Thank you for keeping track of these type of threads, I've been seeing more of them also

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:37 PM

161. I guess losing it all in 16 wasn't enough...more losing with this sort of post.

Tim Ryan is my congressman...and if we lost him, we get a Republican so maybe some who don't live in the district should mind their business...we need Democrats to win back the House.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:38 PM

162. America is not a leftist country, will never be one, we are a

 

Center-left. Outright socialism will never take. That doesn't mean we don't move many programs towards socialism like national health and college/trade school education.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:40 PM

164. "There's a lot of people that just don't really like protests and don't like yelling and screaming,






....................Moderates said they feel they're being drowned out by louder voices on the left.

Rep. Cheri Bustos, D-Ill., a member of the House Democratic leadership who represents a district Trump won, invoked Richard Nixon's "silent majority."

"If you look throughout the heartland, there's a silent majority who just wants normalcy. Who wants to see that people are going out to Washington to fight for them in a civil way and get something done," she told reporters.

"There's a lot of people that just don't really like protests and don't like yelling and screaming," she added.


And they worry the angry left will cost Democrats a rare chance to win over those kind of voters, including Republicans who no longer want to be part of Trump's GOP.

"Republicans have chosen the far right, which means that they have ceded a good portion of the middle of the road," said former New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu, who is considering a presidential run. "The Democrats, in my opinion, would make a big mistake if they decide to run a base election and just say, ‘Our base is bigger than your base.'"

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Response to riversedge (Reply #164)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 02:42 PM

165. isn't that nuts?

especially "the angry left". Everyone should be angry! If they are paying attention, they already are.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:09 PM

170. Think it would be helpful if the "terrified" Dems worried about their own districts

Instead of worrying about who a district in NYC has nominated being a drag on the local candidate, they should get the best candidate for their local districts. It should only matter if the local candidate invites her support and that will again be based on how they view their district. The DNC should support each candidate based on their needs and chances once nominated.

The GOP is going to try to run against Obama/Hillary/Nancy/Maxine/... anybody except the local Dem candidate because they know their policies stink and any discussion of the current administration and GOP congress will not go well for them.

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Response to bigbrother05 (Reply #170)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 03:26 PM

177. Bingo!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 05:31 PM

188. Can we cut the decisive crap?

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 05:49 PM

191. Dah Komrade!

 

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Response to whistler162 (Reply #191)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 06:40 PM

200. Lol!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 06:26 PM

196. I call BULL on the OP.. We have Dems All Over the Country Actually HELPING PEOPLE... & No One is

Terrified of what's his name.

There are all kinds of Dems across the Country Fighting to TAKE the HOUSE with what works in their District.. think Conor Lamb and incumbent Eliot Engel in NY District 16..

For Democrats Challenging Party Incumbents, Insurgency Has Its Limits

snip//

Nancy Pelosi, the minority leader of the House of Representatives, recently made an appearance with Mr. Engel in his district and praised him profusely. “We couldn’t be better served than by Eliot Engel,” she said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/21/nyregion/congress-primaries-democrats-midterm-ny.html

"it’s the establishment wing of the Democratic Party that is having a good 2018. And, more important, it’s having a good year in the places that matter most this November."



"What about those other 19 primaries, where the establishment Democrat won? There are a lot more congressional battlegrounds in that group, 11 in total, including 5 true tossups."

snip// from your link..

But the stories this week about the surprising power of the left side of the party may have overstated the case a bit.

Going by the numbers, it’s the establishment wing of the Democratic Party that is having a good 2018. And, more important, it’s having a good year in the places that matter most this November.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/bernie-sanders-backed-nominees-score-wins-longshot-races-n888071

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 07:09 PM

202. Journalism School Drop Out That I am

cringes at the use of terrified twice in the same sentence. And I for one believe the Democratic Party needs to join me over here on the left........

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Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #202)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 07:31 PM

205. that was my own not subtle attempt at humor

like 'obvious guy is obvious'

However, NBC really did use the word terrifies in their title.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 07:14 PM

203. Tim Ryan is a fool if he thinks he has a chance to be President.

There are still some standards. One of those is a Representative does not win.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #203)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 07:19 PM

204. I think he's just an attention getter

Glad Pelosi won over him for minority leader. As for the OP, I think left views would play quite well with the right messenger! We've gone further to the right as a country and time to pull things left.

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Response to mvd (Reply #204)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 09:31 PM

209. We need to be more aggressive in taking credit for liberal beliefs.

It needs to be in the minds that the benefits are liberal and good for America and the people. That right wing want to take it all away from everyone.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 07:33 PM

206. Kiss the mid-terms good-bye

 

Certain folks haven't learned a goddammed thing.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 09:49 PM

211. Their strategy is nothing new.

 

Last edited Tue Jul 24, 2018, 01:14 AM - Edit history (1)

They think acting as Republican Lite will entice that elusive unicorn, moderate Republicans, to vote for them. Let us not forget Chuck Schumer's strategery in 2016:

"For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 09:57 PM

212. Sanders never accomplished jack, get real man. lol. nt

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #212)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:10 AM

219. Exactly.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:12 AM

222. I'm not terrified by the "Sanders wing." Just tired of them.

 

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #222)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:19 AM

223. +Millions!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:34 AM

226. "Terrified moderate Dems terrified"

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Response to betsuni (Reply #226)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:46 AM

228. "Terrified!!!!!111"

Act Scared!

"moderate".. just 'cause they aren't in some OR group with nina turner they're deemed "moderate" or "establishment"



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Response to Cha (Reply #228)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:57 AM

231. Terrified of things that "might actually help people."

Because we all know that the Democratic Party doesn't want to help people.

I find posts like these ...

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Response to betsuni (Reply #231)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 01:26 AM

234. Right.. well, that's what they're tying to push

anyway. And, they wonder why everyone doesn't like them.

Jill RatFucking Stein and RatFucking SS' LIES weren't enough for them to swallow.

CLINTON, HILLARY
(DEM)
47.85%
Votes: 2,926,441
Running mate: TIM KAINE

TRUMP, DONALD J
(REP)
48.58%
Votes: 2,970,733
Running mate: MICHAEL R PENCE

DIFFERENCE = 44,292 <---

THIRD PARTY

CASTLE, DARRELL L
(CON)
0.35%
Votes: 21,572
Running mate: SCOTT N BRADLEY

STEIN, JILL
(GRN)
0.82%
Votes: 49,941 <---
Running mate: AJAMU BARAKA

JOHNSON, GARY E
(LIB)
2.40%
Votes: 146,715
Running mate: WILLIAM WELD

TOTAL 3RD PARTY = 218,228

https://electionreturns.pa.gov/General/SummaryResults?ElectionID=54&ElectionType=G&IsActive=0

Here's Big Mouth Again.. I'm so sure M$$$$$M didn't give them all the airtime they could spew..







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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:41 AM

227. Expecting the wealthy to pay their employees living wages

and pay their fair share of taxes does not mean we "hate" them.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:47 AM

229. The incomparable Charlie Pierce:

 

These Aren't 'Moderate' Democrats. They're Conservative Democrats.
Their ideas are stale, cowardly....do nothing to address the issues that have led to national crisis.
....
. You know who’s a moderate Democrat these days? It’s a Democrat who wants to get to universal healthcare by degrees, and someone who wants to get to free college a couple of years at a time.

It’s certainly not a person who thinks it impolite to point out that the creeping oligarchy in this country is a threat to its most basic values.

Amen, brother Pierce.

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Response to shanny (Reply #229)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 01:13 AM

233. +1

 

Amen.

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Response to shanny (Reply #229)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 05:08 AM

240. Thank you

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 08:27 AM

244. "Abolishing ICE" is a nonstarter position

We need an agency that does what ICE does, and there’s no guarantee the replacement agency wouldn’t be worse. It is possible to reform even the worst agency, and that’s what we must do.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #244)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 08:35 AM

245. ICE is only 15 years old

we had border control for all of the time before 2003 without ICE, and we will do just fine without it again. The legitimate functions of ICE can all be performed legally and competently, and the illegitimate functions of ICE should not be performed at all.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #245)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:25 AM

247. You miss the point entirely...

ICE isn't the problem; Trump is. If you closed down ICE today and restored INS tomorrow, it would take it's direction from the same Administration people.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #247)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:34 AM

249. It is certainly a problem of both leadership and structure

corrupt leadership and un-regulated structure both contribute.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #245)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:28 AM

248. La Migra was just as bad as ICE

In the old days we had INS and the Customs Service. We went from two corrupt organizations to one.

Abolish ICE and we’ll probably get an even more corrupt new organization.

Decorrupting ICE would be a better idea, and it can be done.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #248)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:35 AM

250. call it what you will

we will have border security, but it doesn't have to be un-controlled in the way ICE is. I'm all for less corruption.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #250)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:45 AM

251. What you would like...

is ICE with adult supervision, something our immigration system has always needed and never had. Sounds and is good.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #251)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:47 AM

261. Or even just any immigration security with adult supervision

"ICE" as a concept seems to have been poisoned by Nazi-style tactics.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:00 AM

252. You know who's pushing this Pro-Sander's message? Bernie Sanders..

Daily Kos


Received this e-mail from U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders (I. VT) in support of Brent Welder’s (R. KS-03) campaign:

Let me tell you about two different kinds of meetings that took place this past weekend.

On Friday, along with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, I went to Kansas and held rallies with two great progressive candidates who are running for Congress. In Wichita, according to local media reports, more than 4,000 people joined us at a rally with James Thompson.

Then in Kansas City, at our rally for Brent Welder, the convention center was so crowded the staff had to remove a wall in the middle while the event was going on to let more people in. These were incredible crowds coming out in more than 100-degree weather to participate in our political revolution. And, yes, this was Kansas where Republicans control almost everything.

There was quite a different event in Columbus, Ohio. Two hundred and fifty wealthy invited Democratic donors and Wall Street insiders came together at a gathering hosted by a real estate billionaire. Why were they there? The headline on an NBC News story tells it all:

"Sanders' wing of the party terrifies moderate Dems. Here's how they plan to stop it. Party members and fundraisers gathered for an invitation-only event to figure out how to counteract the rising progressive movement."

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:36 AM

256. False hyperbole...no demoract is fearful but we do know how easy it is for

 

more left leaning if they don't get their way, they take their ball home. 2016 is the prime example along with 2000

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:45 AM

259. The Sanders' Wing. Like the Buffalo Wing, but more terrifying.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:56 AM

266. please don't attack any "wings" of D votes, we can't fly without wings. we need them ALL.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #266)

Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:03 PM

268. agreed, we should just let these Democrats

spread fear about progressive Democrats without paying attention to it. With any luck, they'll be able to scare all of the other Democratic politicians into not running on a strong platform.

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