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Ninga

(8,266 posts)
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:09 AM Jul 2018

Pelosi and Clinton have a lot in common. The cowardly right hammered them and used

their names and slandered them and lied and abused and tried to humiliate and belittle, and
reduce them to be less than human, and accused them of murder and and and and....
Meanwhile they did their job. Women. 2 women who withstood as much as any humans could.....
.......

And.

Many times in many ways certain Democrats said "yes they are" and "yes, they must go"

So when upstarts speak, do we nod in agreement? Sometimes in my 74 years being a Democrat is a cross very heavy to bear.


40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Pelosi and Clinton have a lot in common. The cowardly right hammered them and used (Original Post) Ninga Jul 2018 OP
When you speak with republicans and ask madaboutharry Jul 2018 #1
Sad, sad, sad commentary madaboutharry.....I keep asking myself why we aren't better Ninga Jul 2018 #4
During the Burning Times it became WhiteTara Jul 2018 #21
I've read that most of the Salem victims were women who Hortensis Jul 2018 #26
The women who were refugees from European harassment WhiteTara Jul 2018 #36
Well put, madaboutharry Ohiogal Jul 2018 #9
"The real reason is that many people, and this includes women, fear powerful strong women. It is all pazzyanne Jul 2018 #24
"Hammered and used" Cracklin Charlie Jul 2018 #2
Noted and sadly agree. Nt Ninga Jul 2018 #5
hammering and using is present tense WhiteTara Jul 2018 #22
Replace them with a random Jane and Jill .. you will have the same amount of Vitriol Le Gaucher Jul 2018 #3
We must protect our own....yet....nt Ninga Jul 2018 #6
is it at all possible for those of us who are grey hairs to impress our Ninga Jul 2018 #7
Wonder what it is about those two that is so unacceptable to the right? jcgoldie Jul 2018 #8
Strong women working at doing their jobs and having a level of success, maybe? Or Ninga Jul 2018 #10
Yeah I dunno jcgoldie Jul 2018 #11
THANK you! EffieBlack Jul 2018 #12
It's not just Republicans who are selling or who have sold a phony narrative lapucelle Jul 2018 #14
Both Pelosi and Clinton are brilliant and effective. Greybnk48 Jul 2018 #13
Yes. Republicans don't go after people... dchill Jul 2018 #19
In short, misogyny in action. nt ladjf Jul 2018 #15
Indeed, the glass ceiling is still intact FakeNoose Jul 2018 #25
+1 RandomAccess Jul 2018 #37
That pretty much sums up the 2016 election. StevieM Jul 2018 #39
Still, they all persist. Wwcd Jul 2018 #16
And when I see Democrats repeating the slander, I could scream. JHan Jul 2018 #17
Or, democratic socialists. 33taw Jul 2018 #27
Like what? RandomAccess Jul 2018 #38
Really! I'm not your research librarian. But here is one by a candidate connected to the same 33taw Jul 2018 #40
It's a GOP Strategy, though we think it's personal bucolic_frolic Jul 2018 #18
At this point, I'll vote for a warm body as long as they are not a republican in democrat clothing. infullview Jul 2018 #20
It's the go-to tactic by fascists around the world, when dealing with progressive women. sandensea Jul 2018 #23
Say what you will...labels are misleading pecosbob Jul 2018 #28
OnTheIssues.org lapucelle Jul 2018 #30
This. Absolutely. nt Hekate Jul 2018 #29
So true...so sad lunamagica Jul 2018 #31
i'm ready for the next generation barbtries Jul 2018 #32
They were hyperscrutinized into playing it safe, and then castigated for that. Orsino Jul 2018 #33
so true and spot on! nt Ninga Jul 2018 #35
So many of these posts absolutely deserve their own OP........so much wisdom....nt Ninga Jul 2018 #34

madaboutharry

(40,152 posts)
1. When you speak with republicans and ask
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:18 AM
Jul 2018

what exactly do they hate about Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi, they can't even articulate a reason.
They grab onto vague statements or an internet rumor, or in the case of Hillary bring up Vince Foster or how she was somehow responsible for her husband's womanizing, but they can't actually point to one thing in particular that either of them have actually done wrong.

The real reason is that many people, and this includes women, fear powerful strong women. It is all about misogyny. And sadly, in my experience, some misogynist are also women.

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
4. Sad, sad, sad commentary madaboutharry.....I keep asking myself why we aren't better
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:22 AM
Jul 2018

than this....women standing together can change this world for the better...

WhiteTara

(29,676 posts)
21. During the Burning Times it became
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:37 PM
Jul 2018

very dangerous to associate with other women and as women became more and more subjugated, and with isolation of nuclear families; other women became competitors for the better men and thereby enemies of other women.

Women's Empowerment groups of the 70s began to break down those barriers, but change comes hard for many who have been brainwashed. JMHO of course

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
26. I've read that most of the Salem victims were women who
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:59 PM
Jul 2018

were both old and poor. They lacked support or standing in the community and made particularly good victims for the malicious and fearfully aggressive.

I don't actually believe the extreme numbers referred to in "the burning times" stories, though without doubt some women made particularly good victims throughout the Dark Ages. People who believed in demons and spells to explain the unknowable sought explanations for all the dreadful things that were happening.

Mass deaths were all too common through that terrible period, of course, from the breakdown of societies across the continent and far beyond, famines, various epidemics including 30 waves of the black plague that some estimate killed almost half of Europe, and the mini ice age. And of course crimes of violence were horribly prevalent. What a dreadful time to live.

WhiteTara

(29,676 posts)
36. The women who were refugees from European harassment
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 01:58 PM
Jul 2018

may indeed have been poor and old.

The women of Europe were land holders, had wealth and were respected in their communities and many were doctors of the day. They were excellent targets as the persecutors got to strip them of their wealth and that's when men became doctors and began "practicing" medicine. No women were allowed in the profession.

pazzyanne

(6,518 posts)
24. "The real reason is that many people, and this includes women, fear powerful strong women. It is all
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:54 PM
Jul 2018

about misogyny. And sadly, in my experience, some misogynist are also women."

Nail, meet hammer! I can truthfully say that I received a lot of praise and encouragement from people in my life. That included a lot of men who supported me. I had several notable strong, smart women who mentored me. The one person who shocked me, was my best friend at the time who threw shade at me every chance she got because "women could never be as smart as a man". Needless to say, she didn't stay my best friend for long. Following the example of the women who mentored me, when you get ahead, you don't stop there, you reach back to help up other women. Clinton and Pelosi are the women who help other women to climb higher. I admire and support them both for having their priorities in the right place.

Cracklin Charlie

(12,904 posts)
2. "Hammered and used"
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:18 AM
Jul 2018

Words are right, but the tense is wrong.

Should read “hammer and use”, because they will never ever stop.

Edit to add: these are two women I vocally defend at every opportunity. Someone may bad mouth them once in my presence, but they will not do it twice. Especially after I ask them why they’ve so afraid of someone’s grandma.

WhiteTara

(29,676 posts)
22. hammering and using is present tense
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:40 PM
Jul 2018

and future is "continues" to hammer and use. It's true in the 3 times--past present future.

I keep wondering why no one is challenging Chuck baby. His fiery statements sound as though he's speaking under the influence of thorazine and that he tucks his balls away in a hidden drawer in his closet. His caucus defies him at every turn and he's very ineffective. But hey crickets for his leadership.

 

Le Gaucher

(1,547 posts)
3. Replace them with a random Jane and Jill .. you will have the same amount of Vitriol
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:21 AM
Jul 2018

Same goes true for a random John or a Jack.

Republicans are going to attaack.

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
7. is it at all possible for those of us who are grey hairs to impress our
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:28 AM
Jul 2018

vast experience upon those who think otherwise?

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
10. Strong women working at doing their jobs and having a level of success, maybe? Or
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:36 AM
Jul 2018

perhaps the men who disparage them are jealous? Or for just being women?

All of the above and more?

jcgoldie

(11,584 posts)
11. Yeah I dunno
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:41 AM
Jul 2018

Just seems like they are missing something that republicans look for in their leaders...



Just can't pinpoint what it is.

lapucelle

(18,040 posts)
14. It's not just Republicans who are selling or who have sold a phony narrative
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:02 AM
Jul 2018

about these two women. Here are the On The Issues political philosophy pictographs for Nancy, Elizabeth, and Hillary, in no particular order. (Hint: the one farthest to the left is not E Warren.)





Greybnk48

(10,148 posts)
13. Both Pelosi and Clinton are brilliant and effective.
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 10:53 AM
Jul 2018

That's why they've been hammered for years. I hear people who claim to be Democrats ranting about Pelosi! They're either ill informed, or not Democrats because she has been historic.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
39. That pretty much sums up the 2016 election.
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 08:03 PM
Jul 2018

I would add that they were helped along that path by partisan officials at the FBI and State Department Inspector General's office.

 

Wwcd

(6,288 posts)
16. Still, they all persist.
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 11:47 AM
Jul 2018

They must truly love their country.

Perhaps 2018 midterms will be the day we do the right thing for these remarkable women of fortitude, and we kick the abusive moochers out of our house, in their name


Amen Ninga
🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸

33taw

(2,420 posts)
40. Really! I'm not your research librarian. But here is one by a candidate connected to the same
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 08:35 AM
Jul 2018

Last edited Wed Jul 25, 2018, 09:06 AM - Edit history (1)

Russians as Donald Trump. See: Tad Davine, Paul Manafort.

If you want to talk further about a relationship with Russia, look no further than the Clintons. As we've said time and time again, Bill Clinton was paid half a million dollars to give a speech to a Russian bank, and was personally thanked by Putin for it. Hillary Clinton allowed one-fifth of America's uranium to - reserve to be sold to a Russian firm whose investors were Clinton Foundation donors. And the Clinton campaign chairman's brother lobbied against sanctions on Russia's largest bank and failed to report it. If you want to talk about having relations, look no further than there.

For whatever reason - the candidate did not not mention their own connections to Russia - ever wonder why?

bucolic_frolic

(42,676 posts)
18. It's a GOP Strategy, though we think it's personal
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:11 PM
Jul 2018

They use anger and fear to keep us preoccupied defending our own instead of attacking theirs.

We don't wage attacks like pack dogs as well as Republicans do. That's why we lose this game.


The fear and anger they generated at HRC kept us occupied defending her instead of attacking Trump's agenda.

They attack Pelosi in the same manner. They know she's politically astute. They'd like to see her gone for that reason.

infullview

(978 posts)
20. At this point, I'll vote for a warm body as long as they are not a republican in democrat clothing.
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:36 PM
Jul 2018

WE NEED TRUMP GONE!

sandensea

(21,529 posts)
23. It's the go-to tactic by fascists around the world, when dealing with progressive women.
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 12:41 PM
Jul 2018

Michelle Obama, though not a politician herself, falls under this category too. As you know, most Rethugs literally believe she's a transvestite.

And where'd they get that idea? From hate radio and the right-wing blogosphere.

pecosbob

(7,511 posts)
28. Say what you will...labels are misleading
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 01:01 PM
Jul 2018

neither of these ladies could ever be accurately described as leftist or extremely liberal...don't know where those diagrams above came from but I don't view them as accurate. The Rs will demonize anyone who stands in their way, so picking candidates or leadership based upon who the other guys hate more or less is pretty stupid IMO. IMO, Dems are entitled to their own individual opinions concerning party leadership. There will always be those of us who stand further to the left and those that stand toward the center. Anyone that even considers Dem policies of the last couple of decades as leftist or liberal (anything other than centrist) has been drinking the Rs kool-aid.

lapucelle

(18,040 posts)
30. OnTheIssues.org
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 01:10 PM
Jul 2018

Here is their fact and record-informed, criteria-based assessment for one of the "ladies".

http://www.ontheissues.org/VoteMatch/candidate_map.asp?a1=1&a2=1&a3=1&a4=5&a9=1&a16=4&a10=5&a5=5&a7=5&a8=5&a14=1&a15=1&a17=2&a19=5&a18=2&a6=1&a20=2&a11=1&a12=5&a13=1&i1=1&i2=1&i3=1&i4=1&p=90&e=10&t=21

When an opinion about certain "ladies" in politics doesn't conform to the facts about these "ladies", it might be time to rethink the opinion.

barbtries

(28,702 posts)
32. i'm ready for the next generation
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 01:17 PM
Jul 2018

to take leadership, but when they start to bash these women, i tune out. but i am with them.

what i think we all need to remember is that no one is perfect and there just doesn't exist a candidate who's going to tick every item on my list or almost anyone's list. example i would give for myself is Kamala Harris - I really like her for the next president. In order to maintain this support I must forgive her - if not in thought, then in deed - for what she did to Al Franken. I am bitter to this day over the way he was railroaded by democrats.

Obama broke my heart. After 8 years of his presidency we are still waging an endless war. Would i vote for him again? in a heartbeat. perfection is not compatible with humanity, plus i don't think it's even possible for everyday people to apprehend all the pressures bearing upon a president.

Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi are great women who have served for decades and they have been treated incredibly badly by the right and the left. and the media. and you and me...

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
33. They were hyperscrutinized into playing it safe, and then castigated for that.
Tue Jul 24, 2018, 01:23 PM
Jul 2018

That's not really their fault. We let the media get away with it.

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