General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPelosi and Clinton have a lot in common. The cowardly right hammered them and used
their names and slandered them and lied and abused and tried to humiliate and belittle, and
reduce them to be less than human, and accused them of murder and and and and....
Meanwhile they did their job. Women. 2 women who withstood as much as any humans could.....
.......
And.
Many times in many ways certain Democrats said "yes they are" and "yes, they must go"
So when upstarts speak, do we nod in agreement? Sometimes in my 74 years being a Democrat is a cross very heavy to bear.
madaboutharry
(40,152 posts)what exactly do they hate about Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi, they can't even articulate a reason.
They grab onto vague statements or an internet rumor, or in the case of Hillary bring up Vince Foster or how she was somehow responsible for her husband's womanizing, but they can't actually point to one thing in particular that either of them have actually done wrong.
The real reason is that many people, and this includes women, fear powerful strong women. It is all about misogyny. And sadly, in my experience, some misogynist are also women.
Ninga
(8,266 posts)than this....women standing together can change this world for the better...
WhiteTara
(29,676 posts)very dangerous to associate with other women and as women became more and more subjugated, and with isolation of nuclear families; other women became competitors for the better men and thereby enemies of other women.
Women's Empowerment groups of the 70s began to break down those barriers, but change comes hard for many who have been brainwashed. JMHO of course
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)were both old and poor. They lacked support or standing in the community and made particularly good victims for the malicious and fearfully aggressive.
I don't actually believe the extreme numbers referred to in "the burning times" stories, though without doubt some women made particularly good victims throughout the Dark Ages. People who believed in demons and spells to explain the unknowable sought explanations for all the dreadful things that were happening.
Mass deaths were all too common through that terrible period, of course, from the breakdown of societies across the continent and far beyond, famines, various epidemics including 30 waves of the black plague that some estimate killed almost half of Europe, and the mini ice age. And of course crimes of violence were horribly prevalent. What a dreadful time to live.
WhiteTara
(29,676 posts)may indeed have been poor and old.
The women of Europe were land holders, had wealth and were respected in their communities and many were doctors of the day. They were excellent targets as the persecutors got to strip them of their wealth and that's when men became doctors and began "practicing" medicine. No women were allowed in the profession.
Ohiogal
(31,664 posts)pazzyanne
(6,518 posts)about misogyny. And sadly, in my experience, some misogynist are also women."
Nail, meet hammer! I can truthfully say that I received a lot of praise and encouragement from people in my life. That included a lot of men who supported me. I had several notable strong, smart women who mentored me. The one person who shocked me, was my best friend at the time who threw shade at me every chance she got because "women could never be as smart as a man". Needless to say, she didn't stay my best friend for long. Following the example of the women who mentored me, when you get ahead, you don't stop there, you reach back to help up other women. Clinton and Pelosi are the women who help other women to climb higher. I admire and support them both for having their priorities in the right place.
Cracklin Charlie
(12,904 posts)Words are right, but the tense is wrong.
Should read hammer and use, because they will never ever stop.
Edit to add: these are two women I vocally defend at every opportunity. Someone may bad mouth them once in my presence, but they will not do it twice. Especially after I ask them why theyve so afraid of someones grandma.
Ninga
(8,266 posts)WhiteTara
(29,676 posts)and future is "continues" to hammer and use. It's true in the 3 times--past present future.
I keep wondering why no one is challenging Chuck baby. His fiery statements sound as though he's speaking under the influence of thorazine and that he tucks his balls away in a hidden drawer in his closet. His caucus defies him at every turn and he's very ineffective. But hey crickets for his leadership.
Le Gaucher
(1,547 posts)Same goes true for a random John or a Jack.
Republicans are going to attaack.
Ninga
(8,266 posts)Ninga
(8,266 posts)vast experience upon those who think otherwise?
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)Hmmm.
Ninga
(8,266 posts)perhaps the men who disparage them are jealous? Or for just being women?
All of the above and more?
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)Just seems like they are missing something that republicans look for in their leaders...
Just can't pinpoint what it is.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)lapucelle
(18,040 posts)about these two women. Here are the On The Issues political philosophy pictographs for Nancy, Elizabeth, and Hillary, in no particular order. (Hint: the one farthest to the left is not E Warren.)
Greybnk48
(10,148 posts)That's why they've been hammered for years. I hear people who claim to be Democrats ranting about Pelosi! They're either ill informed, or not Democrats because she has been historic.
dchill
(38,321 posts)who DON'T scare them.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)FakeNoose
(32,351 posts)RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)StevieM
(10,499 posts)I would add that they were helped along that path by partisan officials at the FBI and State Department Inspector General's office.
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)They must truly love their country.
Perhaps 2018 midterms will be the day we do the right thing for these remarkable women of fortitude, and we kick the abusive moochers out of our house, in their name
Amen Ninga
🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸
JHan
(10,173 posts)33taw
(2,420 posts)RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)What did any democratic socialist say that was slanderous??
33taw
(2,420 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 25, 2018, 09:06 AM - Edit history (1)
Russians as Donald Trump. See: Tad Davine, Paul Manafort.
If you want to talk further about a relationship with Russia, look no further than the Clintons. As we've said time and time again, Bill Clinton was paid half a million dollars to give a speech to a Russian bank, and was personally thanked by Putin for it. Hillary Clinton allowed one-fifth of America's uranium to - reserve to be sold to a Russian firm whose investors were Clinton Foundation donors. And the Clinton campaign chairman's brother lobbied against sanctions on Russia's largest bank and failed to report it. If you want to talk about having relations, look no further than there.
For whatever reason - the candidate did not not mention their own connections to Russia - ever wonder why?
bucolic_frolic
(42,676 posts)They use anger and fear to keep us preoccupied defending our own instead of attacking theirs.
We don't wage attacks like pack dogs as well as Republicans do. That's why we lose this game.
The fear and anger they generated at HRC kept us occupied defending her instead of attacking Trump's agenda.
They attack Pelosi in the same manner. They know she's politically astute. They'd like to see her gone for that reason.
infullview
(978 posts)WE NEED TRUMP GONE!
sandensea
(21,529 posts)Michelle Obama, though not a politician herself, falls under this category too. As you know, most Rethugs literally believe she's a transvestite.
And where'd they get that idea? From hate radio and the right-wing blogosphere.
pecosbob
(7,511 posts)neither of these ladies could ever be accurately described as leftist or extremely liberal...don't know where those diagrams above came from but I don't view them as accurate. The Rs will demonize anyone who stands in their way, so picking candidates or leadership based upon who the other guys hate more or less is pretty stupid IMO. IMO, Dems are entitled to their own individual opinions concerning party leadership. There will always be those of us who stand further to the left and those that stand toward the center. Anyone that even considers Dem policies of the last couple of decades as leftist or liberal (anything other than centrist) has been drinking the Rs kool-aid.
lapucelle
(18,040 posts)Here is their fact and record-informed, criteria-based assessment for one of the "ladies".
http://www.ontheissues.org/VoteMatch/candidate_map.asp?a1=1&a2=1&a3=1&a4=5&a9=1&a16=4&a10=5&a5=5&a7=5&a8=5&a14=1&a15=1&a17=2&a19=5&a18=2&a6=1&a20=2&a11=1&a12=5&a13=1&i1=1&i2=1&i3=1&i4=1&p=90&e=10&t=21
When an opinion about certain "ladies" in politics doesn't conform to the facts about these "ladies", it might be time to rethink the opinion.
Hekate
(90,196 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)barbtries
(28,702 posts)to take leadership, but when they start to bash these women, i tune out. but i am with them.
what i think we all need to remember is that no one is perfect and there just doesn't exist a candidate who's going to tick every item on my list or almost anyone's list. example i would give for myself is Kamala Harris - I really like her for the next president. In order to maintain this support I must forgive her - if not in thought, then in deed - for what she did to Al Franken. I am bitter to this day over the way he was railroaded by democrats.
Obama broke my heart. After 8 years of his presidency we are still waging an endless war. Would i vote for him again? in a heartbeat. perfection is not compatible with humanity, plus i don't think it's even possible for everyday people to apprehend all the pressures bearing upon a president.
Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi are great women who have served for decades and they have been treated incredibly badly by the right and the left. and the media. and you and me...
Orsino
(37,428 posts)That's not really their fault. We let the media get away with it.