General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsdembotoz
(16,826 posts)brooklynite
(94,703 posts)...it was: Do you want a candidates who's MORE LIKE Obama or Sanders...
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)dembotoz
(16,826 posts)Cha
(297,528 posts)Fail.
Nice zing, Cha!
Me.
(35,454 posts)Yes?
Cha
(297,528 posts)beat out BS as to whom Democrats want their Reps to be more like.
Me
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It exactly what was happening not long ago a a certain poll was being touted.
handmade34
(22,757 posts)Cha
(297,528 posts)R B Garr
(16,973 posts)Cha
(297,528 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)Cha
(297,528 posts)dsc
(52,166 posts)Without knowing how the voters were judging this it is hard to read into this. Was it personality, issues, a combo of those?
You know what it means, a majority of Dems want a solid left of center Dem, they aren't looking for a revolution.
dsc
(52,166 posts)or some what a candidate who has Obama's personality (no drama Obama) vs Sanders' personality.
no.
Cha
(297,528 posts)Cha
(297,528 posts)that so many took for granted.
pandr32
(11,605 posts)Aloha
Cha
(297,528 posts)sweetie?
pandr32
(11,605 posts)...but just fine along the North and Hilo areas, but we did have some tremors. Been humid as a steam oven though! Good for skin.
Hopefully none of the vog is making it's way to Kauai.
sprinkleeninow
(20,254 posts)Democratic President Barack Obama.
No "Misters In-Between".
💙🇺🇸🌊
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)And there is only one person who can make that claim. Any poll that includes an Obama option will turn out like this one.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But funny thing - I don't see a whole lot of "we have no idea what that could possibly mean" when polls showing Sanders on top are discussed ...
dsc
(52,166 posts)I probably would pick Obama but since I have a candidate in my district it really doesn't matter. I am not even sure which one she is closer to to be honest. I think this question would have made more sense on our side at least, if it had been issue based.
sheshe2
(83,860 posts)sl8
(13,864 posts)Economist/Yougov poll (pdf):
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/wa3gpxn761/econTabReport.pdf
Tweet in OP is based on poll question 95.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)lapucelle
(18,305 posts)Liberal 50%
Moderate 39%
Conservative 17%
Not sure 25%
More like Bernie Sanders
Liberal 37%
Moderate 26%
Conservative 28%
Not sure 10%
According to the poll, the "prefer congressional candidates like Sanders" highest percentage rating on the ideology scale is with conservatives.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/wa3gpxn761/econTabReport.pdf
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The question asked is:
"Do you wish the Democratic candidates who run for Congress this year will be more like Barack Obama or more like Bernie Sanders?"
Presumably, the Republicans/conservatives who say they want the Democrats to run someone like Sanders is because they think someone like him would be easier for them to beat than someone like Obama (not because they actually prefer Sanders).
I don't really get why they even asked this question of Republicans, to be honest.
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)candidates based on things like policy, effectiveness, statesmanship, character, personality, and the ability to win elections.
So the argument is that conservatives prefer Sanders-like candidates because they would be weak and easy to beat?
Given your presumption, it could be true that some of the Independents who prefer Sanders-like candidates fall into the "I identify as a conservative and Sanders-like candidates are easier to beat" category that you delineated.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Your response would be based on which of the two you thought would be easier for the Democrats to beat, wouldn't it?
So my argument is that the Obama vs. Sanders question would invoke similar types of responses from Republicans.
Republicans are generally not open to the idea of voting for Obama or Sanders, just like Democrats are generally not open to the idea of voting for Trump or Bush.
Independents, however, are people that could conceivably vote for candidates from any party.
I think this survey is pretty pointless, to be honest. Seems obvious that Democrats would prefer a candidate like Obama, since he won the presidency twice and is very popular.
If they did a survey based solely on policy positions, there might be different results.
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)I would answer that question. I'm not sure why anyone would think that his personal presumptions would factor in to other people's actions.
I would imagine, however, that in the interest of insuring that bad actors are prevented from manipulating results, anyone making this presumption would be in favor of closed primaries.
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....conservative respondents chose to mess with the pollster and screw up the results.
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)but at least it gave "Sanders-like" a win.
Cha
(297,528 posts)Yes, exactly! And, the cons prefer the other one because he'd be easier to beat. That's only logical.
Mahalo, lapucelle!
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)That is a VERY telling fact, isn't it?
George II
(67,782 posts)musette_sf
(10,204 posts)shenmue
(38,506 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)spite of being fairly moderate on policy, not because he was moderate on policy. He particularly crushes in this poll when it comes to people of color, both black and Hispanic, and given that no matter what racist shit was thrown at him over the years to attempt to take him down and damage people of color in the eyes of the white public for higher office, he either stayed above it all or brilliantly disarmed it.
Also, whether his and the party's approach to getting through good legislation was ultimately proven to be a miscalculation, He was a sane, measured and compassionate statesmen. The tone of his executive orders show just where his heart was. He would be a stabilizing rather than destablilizing force in the wake of a Trump Presidency that has introduced a whole lot of uncertainty, and I would agree, that somebody in the mold of Sanders could not be that, for good or bad.
But again, this poll does not succesfully demonstrate that the issues at hand here are issues of....issues, policy or party direction, especially given that there's another YouGov poll that says quite the opposite.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/j4bk4qaafk/econTabReport.pdf
Cha
(297,528 posts)a lot in spite of the gop. In spite of that BS thought it was a good idea to have him primaried in 2012.
President Obama is a beloved former President who is helping Eric Holder with the gerrymandering issue to help with our Demcracy
BS is out there bashing our Democratic party with the message that we're the party of the "1% and not the party of workers" Yet BS' fans say he votes with this party 90% of the time".. that's why he's considered a dem. He put himself in a Catch 22.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)don't see it that way. And as the other YouGov poll shows, people in our party want more Sanders-like politicians. Some, if they could get Obama again(and really there's nobody like Obama) would choose that over somebody like Sanders, but in a more general poll, Sanders and his direction IS appreciated by democrats.
Cha
(297,528 posts)Dems 90% of the time.. and then bashes them disingenuously.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)politics? Please don't tell me you're that naïve about what has been the most significant threat to our democracy.
And I have no idea what you are driving at regarding Sander's voting record? What do you think that is saying? That he's practical and will take the best he can get, because that doesn't gel with the "purist" straw-man.
Cha
(297,528 posts)that Twitter is pushing back on him exponentially because there are many many people who do see that BS is Wrong.. and they're not playin'.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)betsuni
(25,598 posts)Is that Insult of the Week? Maybe more like one-insult-fits-all.
Cha
(297,528 posts)lapucelle
(18,305 posts)would suggest someone else is "naive" or in any way not thinking clearly.
Mahalo, my friend!!!!!
Cha
(297,528 posts)of par for the course!
Thank You, lapucelle!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Thats how he is wrong. His overall thoughts on economics come at the expense of the oppressed, not the advantage of the disadvantage. Smoke and mirrors.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)He paired with conservative Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) on a restrictive immigration amendment. And Sanders backed provisions characterized as poison pills to unravel the bill, while voting to block the final measure in June 2007.
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)In other words, a dark money group.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Cha
(297,528 posts)to talk about "money" coming to the Democratic Party in any way shape or form.
'Cause who the hell can tell where their money comes from? Suppose to take their word for it? uh No.
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)It doesn't say that "people in our party want more Sanders-like politicians". It says that Democrats prefer Sanders-like politicians to Trump-like politicians.
In the poll you cite, the head to head comparison is Sanders to Trump not Sanders to Democrats specifically or in general.
BS comes up short in the poll where he goes head to head with a Democrat.
sl8
(13,864 posts)Question 87 in the "other poll" cited doesn't mention Trump. Are you referring to a different question?
87. More like Sanders
Do you wish the candidates who run for Congress this year will be more or less like Bernie Sanders?
[snipped other categories]
??????????????Party ID
???????????Total ?Dem ?Ind ?Rep
More like Bernie Sanders ?33% ?57% ?27% ?13%
Less like Bernie Sanders ?38% ?16% ? 35% ?74%
Not sure ????????29% ?27% ?38% ?13%
_________________________________________________________
Totals ????????100% ?100% 100% ?100%
Unweighted N ???? (1,473) ? (503) ? (581) ? (389)
...
dansolo
(5,376 posts)The question immediately before it was phrased identically, but had Trump instead of Sanders. There were no other politicians included in these two questions.
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)The head-to head question (#95) is omitted from the Sanders-like versus Trump-like poll.
That may account for the extra "question omitted" from the July 8-10 poll. (There were 28 unreported questions from the "Trump-like" poll and 27 from the "Obama-like" poll.)
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/j4bk4qaafk/econTabReport.pdf
sl8
(13,864 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)sense then. 57 percent of democratic voters want politicians more like sanders than....Trump? Are you fucking kidding me right now?
They are two separate questions, and this isn't a binary.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)betsuni
(25,598 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....the limited choice the pollster presents, who knows how many Democrats? What we do know is that less than a third appreciate Sanders and his direction.
This is another one of those pre-ordained polls, choosing the "preferences" of the respondents before they even respond. Why aren't Harris, Booker, Warren, O'Malley, Feinstein, et. al. included in that very very narrow choice?
And we can interpret the results in other ways:
Almost twice as many respondents preferred Obama's vs. Sanders' ideology.
Almost twice as many respondents preferred the Democrats' vs. the Independent's ideology.
As noted above, two thirds do NOT prefer Sanders and his direction.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)doesn't at all say the same thing that you just said. You aren't given the choice to "appreciate" both in that poll.
Whereas the other poll is not binary. It simply asks, would you like candidates to be more like Sanders? The answer to that poll is that 54 percent of Democrats say 'yes'.
George II
(67,782 posts)I pointed out the poll is extremely flawed.
It's like asking "would you prefer having a broken leg or terminal lung cancer?" I'm sure that respondents would overwhelmingly say a broken leg. Then the headline would be "a majority of Democrats want broken legs!"
JCanete
(5,272 posts)The poll cited in the op though, yes, was "Sanders or Obama".
And you did say that we know that only 33 percent of democrats appreciate Sanders. You said that. If the point was that you can rephrase the results anyway you want, well sure, but I don't know what about the question as to the direction of the party you find flawed. It wasn't forcing a choice between two bads ore two goods.
George II
(67,782 posts)"Do you wish the Democratic Candidates who run for Congress this year will be more like Barack Obama or more like Bernie Sanders?"
The results* are:
Barack Obama 54%
Bernie Sanders 29%
Not Sure 18%
The poll was forcing a choice between one or the other (or no choice at all)
Among those with a choice 54% preferred Obama and 29% preferred Sanders. So 83% had a preference, of those 2/3 of them preferred Obama, meaning only 1/3 preferred Sanders. It's simple algebra.
On the other hand, more than 70% did NOT prefer Sanders. More algebra.
*the results actually add up to 101%
By the way, I prefer a broken leg to terminal lung cancer.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I can't understand the folks who seem to ignore how politics works in this country. It does no good to stake out a policy that has no chance of getting enacted.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)bully pulpit to get his own party in line, not that I'm saying I know how that would have worked, or that given the delicate balance of all kinds things Obama had to strike as our first black President, that some of those tools weren't fully available to him...but anything we enacted we enacted entirely without Republicans...so why were we the problem standing in the way of more progressive policy?
treestar
(82,383 posts)Do we want people bullied into our policies anyway? That is not a good foundation.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)politicians when they push back against that bullying impact of big money, but certainly don't let them get away with taking the easy way out.
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)Asking
is not the same thing as asking
JCanete
(5,272 posts)say they do. That would be a single question.
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)When you look at the data from the two questions on both surveys, respondents were presented with a binary choice and they expressed their preference regarding that binary choice.
It is interesting that the one-on-one comparison question is absent from the July 8 poll (for which there are 28 unreported questions), but not from the July 25 poll, which has 27 unreported questions. Only the pollsters know why they omitted certain questions from their results, but a common reason for such omissions is insufficient response.
At any rate, making the inference that the July 8 poll somehow refutes the finding of the July 25 poll can be (at most) generously called highly dubious. To begin with, the scope of the questions in the first poll is not as definite as those in the second poll, and the binary choices are different in the each. What we know with certainty is that Obama-like is explicitly preferred over Sanders-like.
Secondly, the July 25 poll is fresher (and arguably more complete) data, so even if your conclusion were remotely logical, it is refuted by newer data.
And finally, something may have happened in the weeks between July 8 and July 25 that caused respondents to reassess the preferability of Sanders-like candidates. Was there any campaigning going on this month?
Data analysis is complex and best left to experts.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)party as a whole, and as such, probably more represents just how beloved Obama is. Sure, I can't definitively say it doesn't speak to direction, or that things haven't changed as you say, over the time these polls have been conducted, but to draw the conclusion that this IS about party direction is absolutely stretching it. In contrast, the former poll does seem to be speaking more to direction, or, I guess you could argue no, that it instead might reflect an appreciation for candor or independence?
And YOU did say even though the poll questions explicitly do not operate that way, that the older poll was a question of Trump or Sanders. That just isn't correct. So are you the expert in this equation?
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)It is dangerous to impose criteria that was absent in the poll design and then reach conclusions on matters that were not measured by the questions or reflected in the data.
In what way does the July 8 poll speak more or less to "direction" and/or "issues" than the July 25 poll? How does the earlier poll say "quite the opposite" of the July 25 poll when they are not asking about the same set of politicians?
The most solid conclusion concerning this question set from either poll is that respondents preferred Obama-like congressional candidates to Sanders-like congressional candidates for some reason. If pollsters are interested in discovering the reason, they need to do a follow-up. Both casual and expert readers need to employ caution when looking at the data and especially avoid reaching the type of categorical conclusions that a word like "opposite" suggests.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)by the nature of the subject, is more likely to draw out a vote based upon philosophical alignment since there is a well known philosophical divide currently between a Sanders-like progressivism and the more traditionally main-stream progressivism..so a question of whether one wants a politician like Sanders, may invoke that reasoning in the answer. In fact, Sanders does very well with people of color in that poll, whereas he gets creamed when it is him versus Obama in the latter poll.
Yes there are a lot of things to weigh, and I walk back any "conclusion" I may have drawn too forcefully , but I've got to say, the experts seem to leave shit out all the time in their own analysis...so at the end of the day, its always about interpretation. as you say, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.
Now I'm confused as to the origin of the quote though. I'd always thought it was Twain, and Twain himself attributed it to a Brit named Disraili, according to wiki.
WhiteTara
(29,721 posts)mcar
(42,372 posts)This should stop the arguing, but I'm sure it won't.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)But a difference in results would speak more to ignorance or to the cult of personality. Because in terms of policy, a Clinton presidency would have been an extension of the Obama presidency.
Nonetheless, as I wrote below, the 2016 primary results made it clear that Clinton was preferred over Sanders among the base (women and persons of color in particular), which is why it was clear by the end of Super Tuesday that Clinton was on her way to the nomination.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)The race was essentially over by the 2nd week of March and only appeared close due to disenfranchising caucuses.
That said, it's worth pointing out that the difference between the 2 isn't as great as it's made out to be. Part of the problem is that Sanders and his ilk have made an unfortunate labeling error. It's not unreasonable to promote the Nordic Model, but it's wrong to associate the Nordic Model with socialism.
The other problem is how dismissive Sanders and his ilk are of the role racism and sexism play in Republican success. Voting against economic interests is a default (and not a product of Democrats having a lousy message) because Republicans are voting *for* their (perceived) cultural/social interests. The likes of Sanders have a fundamental misunderstanding of the relationship between social justice and economic justice. Economic injustice is enabled by racism (including xenophobia), sexism, etc. This has been true since the invention of whiteness and the construct known as race. Whereas the reverse isn't true. Social injustices are not enabled by economic injustice. Racism and sexism are used, after the fact, to justify economic injustice. Those things are fostered and exploited so that people will overlook their own economic woes or blame the wrong people for said woes. Support for right wing economics, right wing environmental policy, right wing health care policy, and so on, would collapse without racism, sexism, etc.
dansolo
(5,376 posts)For those who believe that any Trump supporter would vote for a Socialist Jew
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)I believe it was in Wisconsin, and he was quite dismissive of the notion that racism played a big role in Trump's rise. That's an absurd position for anyone to take; even someone from the whitest state in the US.
Cha
(297,528 posts)fit his agenda.
Right out of the gate..
Bernie Sanders 'deeply humiliated' Democrats lost white working-class voters
Washington (CNN) Sen. Bernie Sanders expressed his disappointment Monday with Hillary Clinton's failure to secure the support of white working-class voters in last week's presidential election.
Donald Trump "very effectively" tapped into "the anger and angst and pain that many working class people are feeling," the Vermont independent senator who challenged Clinton in the Democratic primary said on "CBS This Morning."
"I think that there needs to be a profound change in the way the Democratic Party does business," Sanders said. "It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to where I came from."
https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/14/politics/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-loss-working-class-voters/index.html
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)...this white working class narrative (and all the trappings that come with it) only hurts the cause. In fact, I'm more than sympathetic to the Nordic Model. It would be a major improvement, which is why it's all the more frustrating that Sanders and his acolytes are failing so miserably in their approach (the misguided approach has contributed to a knee-jerk opposition to what really are sound policy proposals). And, again, misrepresenting the Nordic Model as socialism does a grave disservice (unintentionally so, I suppose, which is really inexcusable for an educated member of the US Senate). When you call yourself a Democratic Socialist while promoting Social Democracy, many who don't know any better make the mistake of equating the two. This leads to attacks from all sides (both Democrats and Republicans who don't know the difference, and Republicans who do know the difference but want to exploit the ignorance), which could have been avoided by being more cautious when subscribing to labels.
Anyway, the white working class narrative itself is rooted in racism, which is not to say everyone promoting it is intentionally being racist. Many right wingers and members of the media seized upon the narrative following the 2016 election, which ought to tell Sanders that he's off-base. Right wing politicians and strategists know full well that their survival depends upon racism, sexism and so on. So, anyone who pushes the idea that "identity politics" is where Democrats go wrong is playing right into the hands of right wingers.
As I've written before, Democrats already do better than Republicans among the working class. In saying Democrats shouldn't go out of their way to appeal to the *white* working class (or, even more narrowly, white working class men), the point isn't to denigrate that subset of the population. The point is that the Democratic Party platform should already appeal to the working class. And, for the most part, it does, based on exit polls following every election.
Why speak specifically of *white* working class folks? We all know why. Either it's because there's this assumption that only white people work or experience economic anxiety (which is what makes the narrative racist), or it's because a certain portion of *white* working class folks are voting based on factors that have nothing to do with candidate positions on wage stagnation, workplace safety, health care, equal pay, paid family leave and all of the other issues that should matter to the working class (nobody can honestly argue that the Republican position on those issues is better for working class folks than the Democratic position on those issues).
As for the notion that Clinton didn't talk enough about economics and focused too much on 'identity politics', a Vox article made it clear just how false that narrative is.
The bottom line is that we must address racism (including xenophobia) and sexism head-on. If we don't, there's no hope of substantially redistributing wealth or opportunity.
mcar
(42,372 posts)Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)There is no one more popular among Democrats than President Obama. Period. He was and is an exceptional man and leader. He won the presidency twice, handily. So many Americans, not just Democrats but certainly Democrats, miss him greatly. Especially when we look at who is in the white house now.
Actually I am surprised that 3 out of 10 surveyed named Sanders rather than Obama. I would have expected fewer given that type of competition.
RandySF
(59,158 posts)betsuni
(25,598 posts)Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)More like Obama because of what.....? Age? Color? Policies? Taste in Music? Experience as President?
Cha
(297,528 posts)flor-de-jasmim
(2,125 posts)It could be age, gender, being photogenic, race, speaking ability, gentleness, etc. There are so many things I can think of before I get to political stances.
Be wary of polls!
True_Blue
(3,063 posts)She's young and healthy like Obama and I really like her voting record. I think she would draw in younger voters.
sellitman
(11,607 posts)I think she would govern in between the two which would work for me.
H2O Man
(73,593 posts)I'd add that she has outstanding skills in debate, which is a huge factor.
Response to brooklynite (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
rusty quoin
(6,133 posts)But the country is controlled by the right, and of course we want Obama over Sanders. We want what is safe.
I would wish either one over what we have going on.
I am not one here who distinguishes so much one against the other. I think of it like, lets take back the country and then we can argue over direction. I like Bernies message, but I love the hell out of the smartest guy in the room.
Obama was to me the perfect president with the perfect family, but he of course ran up against too many things after Democratic voters decided to stay at home in the 2010 midterms.
If we dont vote in large numbers, the rest does not matter.
betsuni
(25,598 posts)Cha
(297,528 posts)work Done.. but wasn't good enough for suckers who fell for stein-sarandOn LIES. They wanted the fantasy story stein told them and Throw Away 8 years of going Forward.
Suckers !
True Dough
(17,314 posts)but what troubles me is that nearly 30% of Dems prefer Sanders' approach and policies. That is a significant number. Should there be a strong independent candidate again in 2020, especially one that leans left, we could see a repeat of vote spitting, possibly enough to allow the ReThugs to retain the presidency.
The thought turns my stomach. We need unity behind our next candidate, or to come as close as we possibly can.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)more like the greatest president of our times and a transformative figure in American history or . . . (Insert any name you wish)?
Easy question. It's like Obama every time. Now ask the same question but substitute McCaskill, Harris, Biden, or even candidates who are no longer running for office for Sanders.
Followed by:
PATHETIC spin trying to portray Barrack as a moderate establishment Democrat. Obama ran AGAINST a moderate Democrat AND the party establishment in the 2008 primary and beat them into submission. He ran as a progressive agent of change in the 2008 general election.
He compromised toward moderation from 2008-12 because disloyal blue dogs wouldn't get behind the policies he ran on and the Republican caucus had no such loyalty issues when it came to opposing him.
Moderates abandoned him anyway in 2010 and got their heads handed to them and Congress handed to Republicans. The moderates blamed Obama. In 2012, he won a clear majority, not merely a plurality, of the popular vote because the people still believed in him and the people in my community turned out like never before.
From 2012 through 2016, he used the power of the unitary executive to take radically progressive measures that to this day wouldn't get 100% support from our caucus.
Watching the establishment try to appropriate his legacy borders on hilarious, or disgusting.
Maxheader
(4,373 posts)could have handled the recession the rightwing handjobs
handed obama. Lehman bros, prime mortgage, etc...that one?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)jalan48
(13,881 posts)Gothmog
(145,489 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...these polls that limit respondents to a small sampling.
Why Obama vs. Sanders? Why not Obama vs. Clinton? Obama vs. Biden? etc..................
Obama's not running for office, and Sanders isn't a Democrat. An odd choice.
0rganism
(23,966 posts)and i also bet there will be a couple candidates in the primary who provide a pleasing mixture of their positive traits.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Barring economic collapse, I can't see him suddenly becoming much more popular--and I would hope that only Democrats will enter the primary.
H2O Man
(73,593 posts)We need candidates that appeal to all of the Democratic Party. Ongoing efforts to divide should not be promoted.
James48
(4,438 posts)I am a strong Bernie supporter for PRESIDENT-
But if you ask me about who I would want my Congressman to be more like, it might be more like Barack, because at age 56, I can count on that Congressman fighting longer for me. Like two decades longer.
But I really want BERNIEs radical left socialism to become mainstream in the White House.
Cha
(297,528 posts)No.
BlueTsunami2018
(3,503 posts)And most of Bernie Sanders policies.
Cha
(297,528 posts)"charisma".. it didn't work when BS tried it and it's Not working Now.
BlueTsunami2018
(3,503 posts)I loved the guy as President. But his charisma and oratory skills were his very best assets. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous.
Cha
(297,528 posts)your narrow view.
And, as for your "..pretending otherwise is ridiculous.. " insult.. I boomerang that right backatcha.
BlueTsunami2018
(3,503 posts)I said they were his BEST assets. And they are. Hes a tremendous speaker above all. Hes smart, measured, classy, empathetic, self deprecating, resilient and level headed. He had to be Jackie Robinson in there and I totally respect all that.
I dont see what your problem is. Wanting people to have his best attributes while having a more progressive platform spells victory for the good guys.
We are on the same side you know.