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octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 05:58 AM Jul 2018

Anybody else sick of these articles? "White, and in the minority"

She speaks English. Her co-workers don’t. Inside a rural chicken plant, whites struggle to fit in.



In a country where whites will lose majority status in about a quarter-century, and where research suggests that demographic anxiety is contributing to many of the social fissures polarizing the United States, from immigration policy to welfare reform to the election of President Trump, the story of the coming decades will be, to some degree, the story of how white people adapt to a changing country. It will be the story of people like Heaven Engle and Venson Heim, both of whom were beginning careers on the bottom rung of an industry remade by Latinos, whose population growth is fueling that of America, and were now, in unusually intense circumstances, coming to understand what it means to be outnumbered.

They didn’t know the heavy burden of discrimination familiar to members of historically oppressed minority groups, including biased policing and unequal access to jobs and housing. But some of the everyday experiences that have long challenged millions of black, Latino and immigrant Americans — the struggle to understand and be understood, feeling unseen, fear of rapid judgments — were beginning to challenge them, too.


Studies have shown how some whites, who are dying faster than they’re being born in 26 states, react when they become aware of a tectonic demographic shift that will, with little historic precedent, reconfigure the racial and ethnic geography of an entire country. They swing to the right, either becoming conservative for the first time, or increasingly conservative — “politically activated,” explained Ryan Enos, a political scientist at Harvard University, who among others found that white Democrats voted for Trump in higher numbers in places where the Latino population had recently grown the most.

They feel threatened, even if not directly affected by the change, and adopt positions targeting minorities out of “fears of what America will look like,” said Rachel Wetts of the University of California at Berkeley, who argued in one study that recent calls by whites to cut welfare were born of racial resentment inflamed by demographic anxiety, even though whites benefit from the social safety net as well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/07/30/feature/majority-minority-white-workers-at-this-pennsylvania-chicken-plant-now-struggle-to-fit-in/?utm_term=.fedd3eb7796d



If I worked in a plant where everybody else spoke Spanish, I'd learn Spanish. There are free courses available online. Problem solved.

62 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Anybody else sick of these articles? "White, and in the minority" (Original Post) octoberlib Jul 2018 OP
The article seems mistitled, since it's actually about language whathehell Jul 2018 #1
The article's not mistitled. It's about how white people are afraid of and resent the octoberlib Jul 2018 #2
It is mistitled if it's using a language difference as an example.. whathehell Jul 2018 #3
If you don't understand how race & privilege are central to the story Tarc Jul 2018 #6
That is the most rediculous idea some DUers have wasupaloopa Jul 2018 #7
Nice try whathehell Jul 2018 #9
Good point. OnDoutside Jul 2018 #17
Thanks, Mr. C. whathehell Jul 2018 #19
Oops ! OnDoutside Jul 2018 #20
Oops.. whathehell Jul 2018 #21
I never replied to your message ! OnDoutside Jul 2018 #26
You forgot? whathehell Jul 2018 #33
Hahaha no, not at all ! OnDoutside Jul 2018 #38
Okay then whathehell Aug 2018 #62
Wyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyypipo Tarc Jul 2018 #22
+1 ck4829 Jul 2018 #14
Heehee. How true. brush Jul 2018 #31
Thank you. cwydro Jul 2018 #8
But but but EffieBlack Jul 2018 #5
You could be a black person who doesn't speak Spanish.... RhodeIslandOne Jul 2018 #25
I am white and live in a 70% Hispanic city wasupaloopa Jul 2018 #4
Sorry, but I laughed at the fools in that article. FSogol Jul 2018 #10
I think this sentence sums it up very well. brer cat Jul 2018 #12
True. n/t FSogol Jul 2018 #13
Yeah, guess she thought it was all up to the Spanish speaker to approach... brush Jul 2018 #57
Right. brer cat Aug 2018 #61
+1. "The lowest white man is still better than any person of color" has consequences ck4829 Jul 2018 #15
To Your First Paragraph ProfessorGAC Jul 2018 #40
I agree. I have no doubt Juan puts more effort into the work and FSogol Jul 2018 #42
As Someone We Regularly Discuss Here. . . ProfessorGAC Jul 2018 #43
Probable, but more likely they're part of the 50% that can't bother to vote. n/t FSogol Jul 2018 #44
I think Doug Stanhope says it much better than me: ret5hd Jul 2018 #54
K&R. I'm learning and speaking Spanish just to spite the fascists and authoritarians running the US ck4829 Jul 2018 #11
Fixed. BumRushDaShow Jul 2018 #16
There are poor white working in chicken factories cwydro Jul 2018 #18
Thank you RhodeIslandOne Jul 2018 #27
Bingo... dembotoz Jul 2018 #28
It's kinda sad you think learning a new language is so burdensome and expensive. LanternWaste Jul 2018 #29
So the whites in that chicken plant could learn Spanish from being... brush Jul 2018 #34
I don't at all. I took Spanish all through school. cwydro Jul 2018 #49
Not everyone has an aptitude for languages, but making FSogol Aug 2018 #59
I suspect cagefreesoylentgreen Aug 2018 #60
Their passivity is remarkable. They completely sideline themselves. VOX Jul 2018 #23
Nope. I mostly read articles that provide information Hortensis Jul 2018 #24
Did you read the piece? It's not about fear or resentment at all. VOX Jul 2018 #30
seems like an opportunity... lame54 Jul 2018 #32
Yes. It's an opportunity as the article said Spanish was spoken... brush Jul 2018 #36
Both sides - really?... lame54 Jul 2018 #37
I can't argue with you on that. Unfortunately she didn't have enough sense... brush Jul 2018 #50
My great grandparents, despite living in the US for decades, never learned English. Kaleva Jul 2018 #39
I tried learning some spanish JonLP24 Jul 2018 #35
Thing Is, Jon. . . ProfessorGAC Jul 2018 #41
I took it twice in high school and lived in Arizona JonLP24 Jul 2018 #45
Spanish is actually one of the easiest languages to learn. cwydro Jul 2018 #46
It is too difficult for me to learn any language then but when it comes to Spanish JonLP24 Jul 2018 #47
You could learn it in a total immersion situation. brush Jul 2018 #51
I do understand some of it and have for years JonLP24 Jul 2018 #52
I took a class too and was starting to grasp it. I could understand many... brush Jul 2018 #53
I'm actually starting trying to learn Spanish. moriah Jul 2018 #48
I took latin too. Wish I had taken Spanish as I grew up in the Southwest... brush Jul 2018 #55
Et tu, Moriah? ret5hd Jul 2018 #56
Watch an hour of telenovellas everyday on spanish tv. FSogol Aug 2018 #58

whathehell

(29,033 posts)
1. The article seems mistitled, since it's actually about language
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 06:37 AM
Jul 2018

rather than race.
The Democratic Party's Path to Citizenship includes a requirement to learn English. If I moved to a country where everyone spoke
English, I'd learn English. There are free courses available online. Problem solved.

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
2. The article's not mistitled. It's about how white people are afraid of and resent the
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 06:44 AM
Jul 2018

"other" and will punish the "other" even if they punish themselves by doing so. These white people aren't victims of anything except their own ignorance.

whathehell

(29,033 posts)
3. It is mistitled if it's using a language difference as an example..
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 07:13 AM
Jul 2018

If my white English speaking self moves to white Spanish Speaking Spain for a job and expect my co-workers to speak English, that would be a problem of mine that had zilch to do with race.

It's a poor premise on which to build another thread recounting the varied and sundry shortcomings of 'white people'.











Tarc

(10,472 posts)
6. If you don't understand how race & privilege are central to the story
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 07:49 AM
Jul 2018

Then you are probably the target audience for this piece.

 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
7. That is the most rediculous idea some DUers have
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 08:05 AM
Jul 2018

Last edited Tue Jul 31, 2018, 08:38 AM - Edit history (1)

with articles like this.

I can’t put it into the right words but there is something mentally wrong with this “white” is bad thinking. It’s people with a guilt complex guilt tripping other people.

It is not healthy to loath yourself.

Yes there is racism and fear but that is a minority position it does not describe the majority of white people.

This article is about some white people.

whathehell

(29,033 posts)
9. Nice try
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 08:45 AM
Jul 2018

but neither you nor the article establishes a clear link between language and privilege.
Language can be learned, being born into a particular race cannot. Thus, the analigy to the "white privilege" meme fails.











whathehell

(29,033 posts)
19. Thanks, Mr. C.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 01:00 PM
Jul 2018

and now that you've popped in, I was wondering if I'd be hearng from you soon on the pm.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
8. Thank you.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 08:41 AM
Jul 2018

Whenever I’ve even traveled to another country, much less lived in one - I’ve made every effort to learn the language.

If an American complained that no one in their adopted country spoke English, they’d be vilified, and rightly so.

 

RhodeIslandOne

(5,042 posts)
25. You could be a black person who doesn't speak Spanish....
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:05 PM
Jul 2018

....and also feel like an outsider. Especially in a southern factory.

 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
4. I am white and live in a 70% Hispanic city
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 07:36 AM
Jul 2018

and whites are the minority in my state of CA.

It hasn’t hurt me one bit. All the other whites I know here think the same way.

Nobody is afraid. This article is for the mea culpa white people on this board.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

FSogol

(45,446 posts)
10. Sorry, but I laughed at the fools in that article.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 08:54 AM
Jul 2018

They had every opportunity such as free education, growing up in a stable environment with 2 parents, and being white. And yet their only employment choice is competing against people who don't even speak the language? I'm sure Heaven and Venson are the two laziest people in the plant. The guy, Venson Helm, wonders why people in the plant ask Juan for help when machinery breaks instead of self-proclaimed greatest mechanic in the world Venson? Maybe it's because you are a racist asshole? Nobody wants to hear your crap or your attitude when something needs fixed. I'm sure Juan is 100x more understanding.

If ether applied themselves and learned a little Spanish, they'd probably become supervisors. The folks that work with them need to improve their English and would probably be overjoyed if Heaven took a little interest in communicating. Both Heaven and Venson think they are better than their co-workers, so I doubt there will be any self-improvement on their parts.

The only sad part of the article is that Heaven's own family encouraged her to work there and considered chicken processing to be a good career. Jesus Christ people, it is the 21st century, not the 19th. Educate your kids, don't doom them to factory work because, "that's the way we've always done it."

brer cat

(24,523 posts)
12. I think this sentence sums it up very well.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 09:33 AM
Jul 2018
Months before, Salvador had marshaled all of her English to ask Heaven her name, and for a moment Heaven had felt less isolated, as though maybe that could be the beginning of a friendship, but that had been the extent of the conversation, and now neither said anything as Salvador collected the chicken breasts and left.


So the tools needed to establish communication and friendship were all to be acquired by one side. Heaven whines and cries but doesn't have the gumption to learn even one word in Spanish. That attitude reeks of superiority.

brush

(53,740 posts)
57. Yeah, guess she thought it was all up to the Spanish speaker to approach...
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 11:22 PM
Jul 2018

her instead of reciprocating and returning the gesture with some effort in rudimentary Spanish to her co-worker.

brer cat

(24,523 posts)
61. Right.
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 06:59 AM
Aug 2018

It wouldn't have taken much effort to learn a few words to get started. They could have helped each other learn and develop friendship at the same time.

ck4829

(35,038 posts)
15. +1. "The lowest white man is still better than any person of color" has consequences
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:51 AM
Jul 2018

They had that going for them, "I could work in the chicken factory and life will be good. I will lord over those Mexicans".

Turns out you can't do that anymore.

ProfessorGAC

(64,847 posts)
40. To Your First Paragraph
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 05:21 PM
Jul 2018

Maybe Juan is a better mechanic, too. Like you said, Venson proclaimed himself the greatest mechanic in the world. If others view it differently, it may be because he's not as good as Juan.

The rest of what you said, i completely agree with.

FSogol

(45,446 posts)
42. I agree. I have no doubt Juan puts more effort into the work and
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 06:23 PM
Jul 2018

probably does it without attitude or belittling anyone.

ProfessorGAC

(64,847 posts)
43. As Someone We Regularly Discuss Here. . .
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 06:27 PM
Jul 2018

. . .people who really are good at stuff don't tell others they are the best ever at it.

They may say they know they're good, but they don't say "best ever" and "only i can fix it". I bet i know who that tool voted for.

ret5hd

(20,482 posts)
54. I think Doug Stanhope says it much better than me:
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 11:12 PM
Jul 2018

my favorite line:
(speaking about non-english speaking immigrants taking "your" job)
"...and if that guy is as qualified for that job as you are, you are a loser of such epic and humiliating proportions. I would be ashamed for anyone to find out that guy took my job. Did they do your job training in pantomime, shithead?"

?t=2m45s

BumRushDaShow

(128,436 posts)
16. Fixed.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 11:03 AM
Jul 2018
recent calls by whites to cut welfare were born of racial resentment inflamed by demographic anxiety, even though whites are the majority recipients of the social safety net (benefit from the social safety net as well).
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
18. There are poor white working in chicken factories
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 11:30 AM
Jul 2018

There are poor whites working in chicken factories. But, in the Tyson plant near where I live in rural North Carolina the vast majority are black.

So you think the poor whites and blacks in these plants all have access to the internet? Do they have the time and money to subscribe to language services? Nope.

It’s nice that you think foreign languages are so simple to learn.

I volunteer in this rural town’s library. Those who come in to use the internet (black, white, and Hispanic), do NOT have access at home. Many barely know how to pay bills on line, much less pay for and utilize a language service. Smh.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
29. It's kinda sad you think learning a new language is so burdensome and expensive.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:11 PM
Jul 2018

I learned conversational Spanish simply by working in the office where I do (majority Latino office). Within one year of starting there. And I'm pretty dumb... and poor, as well.

brush

(53,740 posts)
34. So the whites in that chicken plant could learn Spanish from being...
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:23 PM
Jul 2018

constantly exposed to it easier than the Spanish speakers there as Spanish was the language most spoken there, right?

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
49. I don't at all. I took Spanish all through school.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:19 PM
Jul 2018

Also, I was lucky enough to grow up in a family that valued education, especially learning other languages, and enjoyed extensive travel.

There are at least two posters in this thread who tell how they’ve had difficulty learning Spanish, so I guess you’re simply special.

FSogol

(45,446 posts)
59. Not everyone has an aptitude for languages, but making
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 02:54 AM
Aug 2018

The effort is the 1st step. That's something the couple in the article won't do.

60. I suspect
Wed Aug 1, 2018, 03:45 AM
Aug 2018

Being serious here, I suspect this is the same attitude that’s preventing Trumpers from applying for Russian citizenship. That requires fluency in Russian after five years of residency, something that probably terrifies them.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
23. Their passivity is remarkable. They completely sideline themselves.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:58 PM
Jul 2018

Take ownership of your situation. Hustle up some curiosity about the world around you, and beyond. Stay in school. Learn Spanish, as the demographics are shifting— as they have done everywhere on earth over the centuries. Get out of your isolating home town.

And good god, stop with the chain-smoking.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
24. Nope. I mostly read articles that provide information
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:00 PM
Jul 2018

and ideas to enlarge my understanding, not those that aim at the gut for the purpose of arousing fear and resentment.

Fwiw, I'm also assisted in this by distaste for anything that encourages a psychology of victimhood. Whining, resentment toward powerful others, and supposedly helpless self pity always irritate me.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
30. Did you read the piece? It's not about fear or resentment at all.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:14 PM
Jul 2018

And while it’s not designed to offer up any fantastic solutions, it does provides a detailed snapshot of how ill-prepared America’s uneducated young whites are in the face of changing demographics.

The conclusions one may draw from it are the keys to keeping this country afloat, and it makes one think about the steps necessary to ward off another fascist coup, providing we survive the current precarious situation.

lame54

(35,262 posts)
32. seems like an opportunity...
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:19 PM
Jul 2018

i tried learning Spanish - it didn't take
in that situation i think i could get it

brush

(53,740 posts)
36. Yes. It's an opportunity as the article said Spanish was spoken...
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:27 PM
Jul 2018

in the plant, which is why the workers didn't have to learn English.

Both sides could benefit by an exchange of learning each other's language.

lame54

(35,262 posts)
37. Both sides - really?...
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:33 PM
Jul 2018

in that building there is only one side
being the only english speaking worker it is up to her to conform or be left out
If her co-workers find themselves in places where english is the main language they would do well to try to pick it up
but in that factory the responsibility is hers

brush

(53,740 posts)
50. I can't argue with you on that. Unfortunately she didn't have enough sense...
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:45 PM
Jul 2018

to see it as a chance to become bilingual. A lost opportunity as she had Spanish speakers all around her who probably would've eagerly help her—if she approached with a non-patronizing attitude.

Too bad for her small horizon and small mind.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
35. I tried learning some spanish
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:24 PM
Jul 2018

I can understand some of it hearing better than speaking but it's too hard for me. I never had issues with people speaking Spanish that I work with. Sometimes they would transfer in and out of English and Spanish sometimes even speaking to me.

ProfessorGAC

(64,847 posts)
41. Thing Is, Jon. . .
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 05:24 PM
Jul 2018

. . .that this is near immersion learning. Per the article, the Spanish is not just common, it's ubiquitous. It's a lot easier to learn a language when fully immersed in it. Probably because one has little choice, unless they are actively resisting, as appears in this case.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
45. I took it twice in high school and lived in Arizona
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:07 PM
Jul 2018

Knew some Puerto Ricans in the Army. I never could learn it but some people do pick it up. It's too hard for me.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
47. It is too difficult for me to learn any language then but when it comes to Spanish
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:13 PM
Jul 2018

I've actually tried.

brush

(53,740 posts)
51. You could learn it in a total immersion situation.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:50 PM
Jul 2018

Don't sell yourself short. You said you even started to "hear" it in some cases. That's the first step.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
52. I do understand some of it and have for years
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:58 PM
Jul 2018

I can't speak it though only a few sentences but forgot most of what I learned or write it.

brush

(53,740 posts)
53. I took a class too and was starting to grasp it. I could understand many...
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 11:03 PM
Jul 2018

words and phrases when I heard them but wasn't quite able to string sentences together when trying to speak it.

I had to quite the class because of a death in the family.

I hope to get back to it.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
48. I'm actually starting trying to learn Spanish.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:16 PM
Jul 2018

Was a dumbass and took Latin as my high school foreign language. Totally useless in the real world.

brush

(53,740 posts)
55. I took latin too. Wish I had taken Spanish as I grew up in the Southwest...
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 11:15 PM
Jul 2018

with Spanish speakers all around.

Latin did help with recognizing the origin of many English words though and figuring out what unfamiliar words may have originated from.

For instance, I still remember the Latin word for farmer is "agricola". It's easy to see the english word agriculture was derived from that word.

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