General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNew Zealand to ban foreigners from buying homes
By Charlotte Graham-McLay 11 August 2018 11:13am
Home purchases by tycoons such as tech billionaire Peter Thiel, the PayPal founder, and Matt Lauer, the former NBC host who lost his job after allegations of sexual misconduct, have led the New Zealand government to crack down on the trend.
The country's allure for the mega-rich planning a safe space to ride out the apocalypse has become almost a cliché in recent years. Reid Hoffman, LinkedIn co-founder, told The New Yorker last year: "Saying you're buying a house in New Zealand is kind of a wink, wink, say no more".
But since President Donald Trump's election, it has increasingly been wealthy Americans buying up doomsday bolt-holes in New Zealand who have made international headlines.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/new-zealand-to-ban-foreigners-from-buying-homes-20180811-p4zwwi.html
CottonBear
(21,596 posts)Why do they even think that New Zealanders would want them in the country.
Initech
(100,101 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)nolabear
(41,991 posts)I can see their point in not wanting to become Argentina, so to speak.
OnDoutside
(19,969 posts)on UK TV, where Londoners might have a bolt-hole in the Cotswolds etc.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)shitty policies they want a nice place to escape to. The New Zealanders don't want them influencing politicians over there, I imagine.
mysteryowl
(7,396 posts)nolabear
(41,991 posts)We had cash offers from obvious foreign investors. Fortunately a really nice young couple could afford it too, and we could pick them. They were Chinese but just people looking for a home. Made me feel better not contributing to whats now a real issue here.
mysteryowl
(7,396 posts)Good for you!!
Baitball Blogger
(46,757 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)And that once the shit stops flying here, they can just fly in and land their private jets and get on with life as normal. Well, I have something to explain to those assholes, but I don't feel like writing a book. Suffice to say that their landing private jets just might as well be their coffins, because the welcoming committee is going to be hellish.
Baitball Blogger
(46,757 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The world came close to getting a taste of worldwide anarchy in 2008, but then President Obama was elected and pulled it back from the brink.
OnDoutside
(19,969 posts)picturesque locations. IIRC, Denmark had rules against Germans buying summer houses in particular areas. Something similar in Norway. In the UK & Ireland, in coastal/scenic/tourist areas, you won't get planning permission to build unless you are from the area because it was pricing locals out of the market.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Is NZ supposed to be safe when global climate change really starts hitting hard in a decade or two?
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I will give you time to rephrase your question.
shanny
(6,709 posts)with the highest elevation in excess of 12,000 ft.
I don't think it will sink.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Ever tried living on a 12,000 foot mountain? Hell, ever tried living on a 2,000 foot mountain in many places during winter. Try it, maybe it would work out, though I doubt it.
Everything has a price. People trying to run away from the societies that they fail to properly support will find that there is nowhere to hide.
shanny
(6,709 posts)which is that the rich stupidly think they can escape from what they have wrought...and they can't.
but otoh, yeah, NZ is a better bolt hole than most, and may well retain the ability to sustain human life long after less isolated locales would (fyi, there is a lot of space between sea level and 12,000 ft. It is not either/or). If I had my druthers, that is likely where I would go. Its beauty alone is a recommendation and solace to boot. Since I don't have that ability, I'm likely headed elsewhere. Luckily for me, I have no children to worry about. It is a minor consolation, but a real one.
As for the difficulty of living on a "2,000 foot mountain in many places during the winter"---jaysus H keeeeRIST: I've spent my life 3x higher than that, and not in a maritime climate...which given the small size of the NZ islands qualifies as such. Grew most of our own food, fished for more (don't hunt, never have), cut wood for warmth...sheeeeit, that was SOP and a pleasure, not hardship. It is laughable to me to think that the rich think they can escape to a Nice Place and everything will be fine. Also laughable to think you know eff all about me, or mine, or what we may be capable of.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)If the world go to hell and fall into anarchy, if I have any life in me, I hope that it ends fast. I won't kill myself, but if I have no food or water, I would hope to die from the outcome as fast as possible.
The ultra rich people may survive longer but their death almost surely would be violent and they likely will be tortured before because their killers could.
BTW, there are some high elevations where people can survive year round. But I tell you one thing, compared to all such places there are not many, and I promise you that a lot of the world will find those places, so there will be no solace, just a minute by minute fight for survival. So I repeat myself and you likely agree with the gist, it is much smarter for ultra rich and other rich people and all people that can to keep society working halfway properly, or better close to utopia for everyone - if everyone try to hoard, pretty much everyone dies.
malaise
(269,157 posts)My question is why would folks running from doomsday head to a region that had 15 quakes in just the last 24 hours
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Even people that are smart in some ways can be idiots in other ways.
malaise
(269,157 posts)Ah well good for the Kiwis.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)So in the event of a nuclear exchange, the radiation would stay in the North, and not cross the Equator.
Plus NZ has a low population density, and is 90 percent white. The other 10 percent is Polynesian. No Blacks.
edhopper
(33,615 posts)mainly Russians and Chinese laundering their money, is the main business model of Trump. He would be bankrupt without that.
But NY and many other American cities would have more affordable housing without this shit.
Wish we could do that here. But the GOP blocked a law that would just identify the owners (instead of a shell corp)
So odds of us doing something like this is nil.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)to buy a penthouse apartment so that his incoming freshman daughter could have a place to live while she went to college in NYC. Was freaking insane, but what is $32 million to a multi billionaire who likely stole his money?
NickB79
(19,258 posts)While the politicians and super-wealthy placate the masses by sowing doubt about climate change, they're fully aware of how fucked we are as a civilization, and they're preparing accordingly. Bolt-holes in isolated parts of the globe, underground bunkers, private islands, even Musk's talk of cities on Mars.
If you don't think that climate change is about to steamroll over our species, start paying more attention.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)During the meantime, those assholes may want to look up what doomsday means. Could they be better off just fucking paying a little more in taxes to keep society sane?
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Rich wanting to build their private playgrounds with enough walls and armed guards to keep the rabble out.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)No local cops, no FBI, no one to hold their armed guards accountable. Do you mind explaining to me what would keep the armed guards from blowing their fucking brains out and taking whatever they want?
appalachiablue
(41,170 posts)~ As for their security guards, they discuss having them wear 'disciplinary collars,' or using robots if developed in time.
"Silicon Valleys elite are hatching plans to escape disaster and when it comes, theyll leave the rest of us behind," Douglas Rushkoff for Medium, The Guardian, Tue 24 Jul 2018.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/23/tech-industry-wealth-futurism-transhumanism-singularity
Last year, I got invited to a super-deluxe private resort to deliver a keynote speech to what I assumed would be a hundred or so investment bankers. It was by far the largest fee I had ever been offered for a talk about half my annual professors salary all to deliver some insight on the subject of the future of technology...
After I arrived, I was ushered into what I thought was the green room. But instead of being wired with a microphone or taken to a stage, I just sat there at a plain round table as my audience was brought to me: five super-wealthy guys yes, all men from the upper echelon of the hedge fund world. After a bit of small talk, I realized they had no interest in the information I had prepared about the future of technology. They had come with questions of their own.
Which region will be less affected by the coming climate crisis: New Zealand or Alaska? Is Google really building Ray Kurzweil a home for his brain, and will his consciousness live through the transition, or will it die and be reborn as a whole new one? Finally, the CEO of a brokerage house explained that he had nearly completed building his own underground bunker system and asked: How do I maintain authority over my security force after the Event?
The Event. That was their euphemism for the environmental collapse, social unrest, nuclear explosion, unstoppable virus, or Mr Robot hack that takes everything down.
This single question occupied us for the rest of the hour. They knew armed guards would be required to protect their compounds from the angry mobs. But how would they pay the guards once money was worthless? What would stop the guards from choosing their own leader? The billionaires considered using special combination locks on the food supply that only they knew. Or making guards wear disciplinary collars of some kind in return for their survival. Or maybe building robots to serve as guards and workers if that technology could be developed in time.
Thats when it hit me: at least as far as these gentlemen were concerned, this was a talk about the future of technology. Taking their cue from Elon Musk colonizing Mars, Peter Thiel reversing the ageing process, or Sam Altman and Ray Kurzweil uploading their minds into supercomputers, they were preparing for a digital future that had a whole lot less to do with making the world a better place than it did with transcending the human condition altogether and insulating themselves from a very real and present danger of climate change, rising sea levels, mass migrations, global pandemics, nativist panic, and resource depletion. For them, the future of technology is really about just one thing: escape...
Its a reduction of human evolution to a video game that someone wins by finding the escape hatch and then letting a few of his BFFs come along for the ride. Will it be Musk, Bezos, Thiel
Zuckerberg? These billionaires are the presumptive winners of the digital economy the same survival-of-the-fittest business landscape thats fueling most of this speculation to begin with. Of course, it wasnt always this way. There was a brief moment, in the early 1990s, when the digital future felt open-ended and up for our invention. Technology was becoming a playground for the counterculture, who saw in it the opportunity to create a more inclusive, distributed, and pro-human future. - More...
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/23/tech-industry-wealth-futurism-transhumanism-singularity
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)screwed. Again, the wisest course is to work to build a more vibrant society, but those morons just can't get their smart minds to that conclusion.
DFW
(54,436 posts)I mean shady Russian mafiosi and Chinese industrialists are one thing, but Matt Lauer? One has to draw the line somewhere, right?
dameatball
(7,399 posts)I don't plan on going anywhere, but must admit I have looked.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)has been completed by the humans. Planet Earth and Mother Nature will have their justice. Not even Matt and his fellow wealthiest criminals will have sanctuaries.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)The food and water will run out eventually.
braddy
(3,585 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Though I could never afford to move there.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,376 posts)When.....(!) I win the Powerball, I was thinking of the South Island.
Google Street View is totally cool and you can tour the rolling countryside using it;
Near Roxburgh, South Island;
https://goo.gl/maps/8XRbo8b2Vcn
One of my favorite areas I've seen by using this feature, North and East of Invercargill -
https://goo.gl/maps/ZQgaazTTTM62
Gorgeous pastureland
(If you haven't used Street View, you can use your mouse to move up and down the roadway, rotate the shot and zoom out to see the area from above)
I lived in Alice Springs, NT Australia in the 70's and visited the Gold Coast of Queensland several times in the 90's. If I can't buy land in New Zealand, I'll just go for a property in Queensland!