I've spent a lifetime reading fictional novels, classical and popular,

[PCIntern]

and many of those books and novellas concerned villains of all stripes: dictators, elected officials, generals, mad scientists, aliens, Nazis, criminals, sociopaths, serial killers, perverts, spouses and other family members...you get the idea.

But I have to say that no literary genius ever conceived of a villain like Donald Trump. Brazen lying compounded with full-bore criminality, utter sociopathic lack of empathy, vacuous stupidity, druggy dementia, hypersexuality channeled horrendously and dangerously and indiscriminately, ugly physically in every respect, incestuous verbal behavior coupled with suspicious physical actions with his child, transcendentally grotesque sense of entitlement and false braggadocio, academic failures propped up by a combination of nepotism and falsehoods allowed to be promulgated by the Establishment, poor dressing habits with outlandishly ill-fitting suits and peculiar tie which may be a doppelganger for his genitalia in his mind, and last but not least, an utter stupidity compunded by his hatred and denigration for anything which is not representative of him personally or his so-called "business world" which is and was a stupendous series of lies of staggering proportion culminating in multiple bankruptcies, complete loss of creditworthiness, and reliance upon foreign money which has given rise to seditious, treasonous behavior the likes of which have never ever been witnessed in this country or any other in the history of the world.

No one has ever created such a character: most are one, two or three-dimensional at best...this man is worthy of a scientist like Albert Einstein,Richard Feynman or Isaac Newton to describe mathematically. That is why most cannot fathom his evil...it is too encompassing and complex for routine description or analysis.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Maybe a stupider version of Baron Harkonnen from "Dune"?

But now that you have the description down so perfectly, maybe you should write the novel!

The movie that comes out of all this could be a real doozie. Who should direct it? I think Oliver Stone.

[diva77]

2. It's because one of the first rules of creating literary characters is that there has to be

something likeable about them regardless of how odious they are. There is absolutely nothing likeable in this case.

[dchill]

4. And relatively believable.

[catrose]

3. You might try "Tropic of Kansas" by Chris Brown

It's dystopian tale about a fascist businessman who becomes president. He finished writing it in January 2016. Frankly, I haven't been able to read it. I read fiction to escape this @#@#@*(~!! world. But Chris is a nice guy and his book got good reviews.

[MaryMagdaline]

5. At one point I thought the vanity and stupidity was on par with

Sir Walter Elliot in Persuasion. The constant need to primp and his obsession with how others look. Not to mention his older daughter as best friend. But the rest of it ... you are right. No character in literature has ever captured anything like this.

I’ve often thought as well that he doesn’t have a single friend in the world ... cronies and hangers-on, but no real friends. Not as a young man and not now. Very, very strange bird.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. It's Shakespearean tragicomedy. . . . nt

[Hekate]

14. In that eventually the whole damn family goes down & Dad is left madly howling on a blasted heath

...all alone except for his Fool.

One can certainly hope.

[UTUSN]

7. *Wow* for your post, but SHITLER ain't that big a deal.

Last edited Sat Aug 25, 2018, 01:39 PM - Edit history (2)

[oberliner]

8. Seems like a typical dumb greedy rich guy to me

[pecosbob]

9. How about Zap Brannigan?

No, you're right...even he doesn't encapsulate the Gump.

Edit...now I got it. Merge Zap Brannigan with C. Montgomery Burns...note that they're both cartoon characters.

[mucifer]

26. Zap isn't that evil Monty Burns seems about right.

[OxQQme]

10. Whew! I had to take a breath at each comma.

Sitting back, looking at your presentation, I see a Haiku-ish appearance.
One short, one long, followed by another short.

That mid section totally rocks my 78 year old world in one sentence.
Heinelin-ish, in that he used long sentences frequently.
love it

[bellmartin]

11. I JUST posted almost exactly the SAME point in other words (although less eloquently), and...

after I posted it, I went back to the forum to see how my post looked in print.

Then, I skimmed down the titles of the next several threads...

And my eyes fell on the title here, "I've spent a lifetime reading fictional novels, classical and popular,"

I thought "OMG" and opened and read this thread, my jaw dropping, after which I quickly deleted my too-similar post. I realized then that in a quick glance at thread titles earlier, I'd seen just this title (but not opened this thread).

My point is this: we're in such a time and place that if you merely read the title of PCIntern's thread, your mind is likely to go straight to the rather shocking point he's making... good authors just don't create such monstrous characters as Trump.

In real life and in interesting fiction, you don't find creatures with so many horrific characteristics unleavened by some sorts of positive or ameliorating characteristics. Trump's not uniquely powerful in his monstrosity, just uniquely monstrous, and that's part of why he'd be unbelievable in fiction.

[MaryMagdaline]

12. A friend of mine just posted in response to an article in the Atlantic

That he is like the wicked old father in Brothers Karamozov ... he will be abandoned and alone

[Hekate]

13. Don't hold yourself back; tell us how you reall feel! Tell you what, though...

I'm giving you an A+ for vocabulary and knowing just how to use it. That was splendid.

[lostnfound]

15. Count Olaf, Series of Unfortunate Events? Nt

[tavernier]

16. Nothing likeable about Lord Voldemort

from the Harry Potter series, but he was much smarter than Lord Orange, so therefore a more interesting villain.

[bellmartin]

19. Exactly, I keep coming to him and rejecting the comparison

And he did work with dedication to develop his considerable powers.

Basically, a single positive trait seems to kill the analogy with that other HWMNBN

[ProfessorPlum]

39. Vulgarmort

[Le Gaucher]

17. You have a way with words. Develop this and submit it to a top newspaper as op-ed.

[PCIntern]

18. I've actually thought about it...

I used to be published in University Presses a long time ago

[BlancheSplanchnik]

20. So well described.

Last edited Sat Aug 25, 2018, 03:11 PM - Edit history (1)

He’s so horrifically over the top on all measures of ickyness, that we are left continually trying to find and name the beast, just to try and categorize it for our own understanding.

I often wonder what pulls in his cult members, since he’s so repulsive, and all I can ever come up with is that fake folksiness, wherein he alludes and suggests and leaves sentences unfinished, instead using broad facial expressions and gestures which followers can interpret as (edit:according to) their own thoughts and urges.

It’s probably a long time defense he’s perfected, letting people think their worst impulses to fill in the gaps and implications, while they stupidly think he’s saying what they think, standing with them.

[PCIntern]

21. That's very insightful...

I think you're right.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

25. Thanks!

That’s how it seems to me.

[smirkymonkey]

22. I completely relate Blanche!

I know exactly what you are talking about. It's good to see you on here! I feel like I haven't seen you for a while!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

24. Hi smirky! Iv been in lurk mode lately,

For the most part. But give me some deep social psychology to speculate about....and here I am! Lolol!!

[smirkymonkey]

28. Good to see you!

I think we will have a lot of deep social psychology coming right up for you!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

32. Snarf! Yes! bwaHAAA! Why, yes indeed,

I think you are correct!!!

[dalton99a]

23. He is a piece of shit from Satan's toilet

[CrispyQ]

27. My writing critique group now starts every session with bitch session about Trump

& it always ends with, "If we wrote this into a book, people would say, 'That's not believable.'"

When you read a headline & wonder, "Is that Borowitz or is it Russian media?" you know your country's in trouble.

Putin Reportedly Close to Firing Giuliani

[wryter2000]

31. Or, the headline...

The Onion gives up.

[First Speaker]

29. Shakespeare could have managed to do him justice...

...but I'm damned if I could think of anyone else. Dickens would have made a melodramatic puppet out of the Trumpster; it would have been entertaining, but not quite "it". Maybe a team-up of Tolstoy, Doestoyeski, Phil Dick, Harlan Ellison, and Jim Thompson could have come close...*maybe*. Best leave it to old Will...

[Cha]

44. Shakespeare's Macbeth..

after a tumultuous and what will be historic week in #45's administration, we should think about this passage from Shakespeare's Macbeth (via Eliot A. Cohen, The Atlantic)

Those he commands move only in command,

Nothing in love. Now does he feel his title

Hang loose about him, like a giant’s robe

Upon a dwarfish thief."

http://progressiveerupts.blogspot.com/2018/08/and-on-this-friday-night.html

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11046284

[Dave Starsky]

46. H.P. Lovecraft would have been able to pull it off.

Particularly given that he was a racist.

Just tell him to knock it off with the slime, the tentacles, and the multiple eyes, etc., and just make the main character a fat old man with a bad haircut, orange skin, and a baggy suit.

[colinmom71]

30. This reads like Dennis Miller's fantasy version of The Aristocrats joke...

But seriously, yes I agree with you.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

33. 🤣

Oh god! 🤣. And, 🤢! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!

[PCIntern]

35. That's funny...thanks! nt

[Cartoonist]

34. Flashman

Even from his school days

[dlk]

36. As the Saying Goes, "Truth is Stranger then Fiction"

[VOX]

37. He's also a "poor pitiful me" type: "Unfair. "Sad." "Not nice to me."

Like his “stable genius” needs encouragement and great care to reach its zenith. An absolute crybaby.

[llmart]

38. Best description of him I've read yet.

I especially like "doppelganger for his genitalia".

[blitzen]

40. kick n/t

[Kablooie]

41. You are going to see a plethora of Trump like villains in future novels.

I'll bet he'll become a stereotype in the next few years.

[Crunchy Frog]

42. I always thought that he and his "presidency" would have made a good subject for a Vonnegut novel.

He's the writer that I think could have best captured the absurdist nature of the whole thing.

[Cha]

43. Bravo, PCIntern.. you've described his

several layers extraordinarily well.. a surreal evil game show host who was willing to sell out his country to get installed in the White House by a foreign agent.

Be his Just Fucking Desserts if that's what ultimately does the most thorough job of exposing him to the world and bringing his downfall.

Truly a The Bigger they are the Harder they Fall Cautionary Tale.

[Dave Starsky]

45. Even Stephen King said he would never have conceived of Trump.

When the most successful horror writer of all time says something like that, you know that the universe has conceived something uniquely abominable.