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Chickensoup
(650 posts)
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)that that is not necessarily so. What is true is that a good majority of Americans were and are solidly or leaning our way ideologically, even if some are not always voting that way.
But remember, all polls showed us winning by double digits for most of 2016, senate secure, major house gains for sure and control unbelievably suddenly in play, state legislatures, governorships, hundreds of judicial appointments. (Which the right is filling with hard-core conservatives, mostly social and religious conservatives.)
On November 9 we wondered how the polls could have been so unbelievably wrong. Now we know they weren't but that the right succeeded in taking power anyway and that they're planning on a repeat on November 6, 2018.
Scary as hell, polls are now revealing that conservatives, social/religious ones especially, after decades of losses at the polls are realizing that overthrowing democracy and replacing it with authoritarian leadership that imposes their "values" may be desirable and doable. They're fine with Trump, though most'd prefer him to be more competent as he restructures our nation.
We now know those white male Democratic workers we supposedly weren't "talking to" chose Trump out of misogyny and racism, angered by too much equality--socially at least leaning conservative males. We also now know that a fair number of those who answered Sanders' populist call are similarly social conservatives who happen to also like government programs. So the threat isn't only from those who identified Republican in the past.
Sure, if the midterms aren't sufficiently interfered with, the most common forecast is that that blue wave will probably be big enough to overcome our electoral college and other structural disadvantages and that we should win at least a slight majority in the house, but stay about the same in the senate so that Republicans continue to control court appointments.
More positive forecasts MUST turn out to be right, we must have at least solid control of the house, or else things are going to continue to go very bad and probably just as fast and dramatically as they already have.
I was never naive enough to imagine it couldn't happen here, just thought our strength meant it wouldn't. Two years ago I said what you do. Now I'm scared.
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)Your comment:
"But remember, all polls showed us winning by double digits for most of 2016, senate secure, major house gains for sure and control unbelievably suddenly in play, state legislatures, governorships, hundreds of judicial appointments. (Which the right is filling with hard-core conservatives, mostly social and religious conservatives.) "
I don't see a double digit lead at anytime in the poll below:
https://www.usatoday.com/pages/interactives/2016/election/poll-tracker/
This Quinnipiac University National Poll taken in Sept. showed the race too close to call:
"With third party candidates in the race, results are too close to call, with Clinton at 41 percent, Trump at 39 percent, Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson at 13 percent and Green Party candidate Jill Stein at 4 percent."
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2378
And I don't know what you mean by "senate secure" nor do I know where you got the info that we expected major gains in the house. Who predicted that?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)want names. Unless you lived in and are a citizen of another country, you really shouldn't need to be told this.
My statements were shorthand, of course. Not all polls at all times showed double digit leads. These things fluctuate. But by the end of summer, after Trump's depravity, profound moral and intellectual deficiencies, and at least "flirtation " as it was being called with treason had been displayed to the nation, they were common. Every respected pollster but a lone person at UCLA was predicting a Democratic sweep of the presidency and senate and at very least large gains in the house -- with control that was previously considered impossible newly possible, as well as many state offices.
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)Obvious is obvious.
I hope you respond back because I enjoy playing.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Until you can contribute to conversation, we're done.
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)You made claims but didn't provide evidence to support them. I questioned your statements and provided a couple of links to polls that contradicted one of your claims and asked for clarification about a couple of other of your statements. You responded with nothing.
George II
(67,782 posts)Kaleva
(40,365 posts)Here is what he said in post #18
"But remember, all polls showed us winning by double digits for most of 2016"
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11053590
George II
(67,782 posts)....Clinton hovering in the low 300s most of the campaign.
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)Can you cite me a few of those polls regarding electoral college votes or do you think she (btw, thanks for the correction) misspoke and was talking about projected electoral college votes and not polls? There wouldn't be confusion here if she would provide some links to articles that support her claim or if she would clarify her remarks.
True Dough
(26,667 posts)that has many right-wing posters (it's not supposed to be a politics discussion board, but what forum is immune from politics these days???).
Anyway, there are periodic posts where these ReThugs vent about the "illegitimate" investigation into Trump and how it supposedly has nothing to do with the original intent of looking into Russian collusion. So some of them swear up and down that if Trump is removed from office over this, they will take up arms and rid society of those "Antifa" types.
I'm sure this is the vocal minority and it's hard to say just how many of them would actually resort to violence. I expect there will be a few outbreaks but I don't believe a true civil war will ensue.
Thyla
(791 posts)There was a long running Trump thread that eventually got locked, as a non American I found it a fascinatingly entertaining and an appalling little slice of social discourse. They run the liberals off the forum except for a few diehards, most presumably know better than to engage them at all.
Guns too, for a pastime associated with peace and zen you would be surprised how the fools act.
Of course these people will never admit to being rethugs, they are fine upstanding libertarians lol. WHo just happen to spend a life time voting for and endorsing the Rs.
The mind boggles.
True Dough
(26,667 posts)Like the trees that you prune? There are gun nuts and alt-right cretins there too?
Thyla
(791 posts)Turns out has it's faair share of whackadoos.
True Dough
(26,667 posts)I know I'm generalizing, but I would have figured it would be a gathering of these sorts of placid people:
betsuni
(29,078 posts)Now that I think about it. My father-in-law had a big bonsai garden, "clip" clip" "clip" you'd hear on summer afternoons. He was a piece of work, wanted to clip everyone around him into shape too. Makes sense now!
ooky
(10,922 posts)Most of them are cowards - flexing their internet tough guy bravado from behind the safety and anominity of their keyboards. For any actual nutcase we'll just call the police, like usual.
When I encounter one of these mentally challenged dweebs I laugh at him.
ooky
(10,922 posts)I don't know if this is your experience, but when someone does start a political discussion on the sports boards I frequent, its always a right winger who starts it. Always. Thinking back 2-3 years I can't think of once when a left wing post led it off. I wonder if its their own feelings of insecurity that make them do this. When I'm posting in my favorite sports forums I don't want our good sports discussions messed up with politics.
I've also had to deal with it as an admin/moderator of a sports forum and its frankly a pain in the ass from that point of view.
True Dough
(26,667 posts)There are a few lefties on the forum who have taken it upon themselves to try to counter the alt-right wingnuts, and a couple of those lefties will start threads, but the liberals are badly outnumbered.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)They know they can get away with it because the moderators and administrators on those forums are right leaning, with few exceptions. So even if the board has a no-politics rule, or discourages the practice, the righty posters know they can get away with almost anything while the left leaning types will be scolded and often have their posts removed.
Worst example I've seen is on a Miami Hurricanes forum called CanesInsight. That site is so far lunatic right you wouldn't have room to place a marker to depict where they line up in relation to other sources. Naturally they hate me but I can out talk and out argue them with ease so I thrive over there, when the opportunity arises. They don't automatically delete the political stuff. They have a separate political site called West End Zone that maybe has one or two posters who aren't complete wingnut headcases. And there is no threat of actual discussion. It is nothing but hate, hate, hate.
On this site when I see posters who want Trump's approval rating to drop to low 30s or even the mid 20s, I have to conclude they live in a cocoon. Those white guys on the political forums have wives and sons and friends and neighbors and parents who feel the same way, to varying degree but much more often than not.
I do post on a Miami Dolphins forum called Finheaven in which the Political Forum has evolved wonderfully over the years and is now frequented by extremely sharp posters who lean left, for the most part. Great discussions there.
ooky
(10,922 posts)about the admins and mods they are so inconsistent. I like the jury system this site uses much better than our sports board moderating process. I just delete it all as soon as I see it because its a rule, but it just amazes me how aggressively and motivated right wingers are to get their spew out, no matter what the forum is or rules are. They seem determined to bring up their agenda.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)I've mentioned it here frequently. Right wing nutcases who despise liberals and particularly liberal women. They love guns and want more of them. If Democrats are elected they always use it as excuse to stock up on more guns and ammunition.
It is hardly talk because when I lived in Las Vegas for 26 years I knew that type and dealt with them every day. When Clinton was elected in 1992 they did stock up on guns. Prior to that election night they were in complete denial that the country would ever elect a Democratic president again.
That's the mindset you are dealing with. None of the recent trends surprise me that much because I encountered that white rural southern uneducated hateful bigoted crowd in Las Vegas sportsbooks beginning in 1984. It was unbelievable how many of them had moved there to bet sports, after their small southern home towns had declined and they couldn't find work or anything that interested them back home.
Likewise drive across country and turn on talk radio anywhere. Long lonely hours and nothing on the radio except right wing hate radio and country music. There are occasionally other options but those are the two guaranteed staples. State after state. So nobody is going to take me into Rachel Maddow's make-believe world of a nation that leans left on one issue after another. If we could presto 20 more cities of one million apiece and spread them everywhere, then her version holds validity.
Ponietz
(4,330 posts)empedocles
(15,751 posts)that a race war, at some point, is paraphrase here, likely.
Response to empedocles (Reply #11)
Ponietz This message was self-deleted by its author.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)I wanted to avoid any misinterpretation, since Ponietz self-deleted.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)empedocles
(15,751 posts)tradiing tool on Wall St.
If you know some things about elliott wave in general, [for the record I'm not a believer at all], Fibonacci numbers, Mandelbrot, fractals, wave theories, subscriber revenues from the many various ew theorists/newsletters, Prechter's 14 books, trader courses, - it is controversial, well known, and like if McCain has said something, right or wrong, it has impact - I would not summarily dismiss ew.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)empedocles
(15,751 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)34. Elliott Wave is very interesting, but claiming some kind of link to a "race war" is nonsense. . . nt
So, to make it crystal clear to you: I am not saying Elliott Wave analysis is nonsense. I am saying that your connecting it to "race war" is nonsense.
You still have not provided a credible link to support such a connection, because you won't be able to find one.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)I do recall Prechter in particular worrying about the 'race war'. I do not have access to his monthly publications. A quick net search showed the Prechter Socionomist, February 2013, 'A Gathering Storm', [Nazi Germany], Could We Really Be Headed There Again.'
Again, right or wrong, widely known opinions, do have impacts.
Your dismissive attitudes are hurtful.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)I can see the Feb 2013 Socionomist cover on scribd, but it is behind a paywall.
When I search socionomist "race war" there is nothing cogent, just random hits.
"elliot wave" "race war": nothing cogent.
prechter "race war": one cogent hit, from Socionomist, July 2015, which make an opposite point to yours.
https://www.socionomics.net/2015/08/article-positive-social-mood-drives-manifestations-of-inclusion-in-us/
Grasswire2
(13,849 posts)They talk openly about civil war. Here's one amusing comment:
To: Sooth2222
#15. A charging mob of leftist women and men-hating lesbians, all armed with dildoes and armadildos, is a frightening thing to behold.
However, it is war and while I would like to wait to see “the whites of their eyes”, I prefer a longer range shot to stop the first couple of waves in their tracks.
My son was a sharpshooter (qualified at 1,000 yards) in Iraq and my son-in-law was a Marine ground pounder/enemy pounder in Kosovo and Iraq. They both prefer different ranges and some heavier weapons for effect.
However since you can’t own a Vulcan minigun (damn it), we have to settle for the legal stuff and just fire as fast as a Vulcan. (Saw a Spooky in action at night while having dinner in Saigon. Would not like to have been the recipient of that fire).
And just to make the fight against Leftist women fair, we would also be armed with back-up rolling pins, frying pans, and fish-filleting knives. The poor bastards.
Tally ho and once more into the breach!"
dameatball
(7,669 posts)
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Dreaming of fighting a modern war with primitive weapons. Just remember, we believe in and excel at science, they don't. If there is a civil war, they will come to learn how foolish they were.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)Secessionist talk, periodic upticks in KKK and other white extremists, trump really angry voters, gun clubs, . . . John Birch, back to tremendous Brown v Bd of Ed rage, dixiecrats. Klan culture after effects still around.
hedda_foil
(16,985 posts)There are just a few states to sign on before it happens. Thanks for tuning in to what sounded crazy but may be a warm up act to the real thing.
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)by all the rest of us, it would be a really, really dumb thing for them to do. But, then, they've never failed to surprise me with their seemingly endless stupidity.
As to your question, no. I have not been hearing this. But maybe I don't watch stupid television "news" shows and listen to stupid people.
Sneederbunk
(17,491 posts)
Boomerproud
(9,292 posts)Convinced they can win this time.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)Duppers
(28,469 posts)Heard this just the other day, I think on Chris Matthews,
"The Civil War never ended."
Sadly true for too many southerners. 
Scary and sick.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)traitortrump holds the House and Senate!
Immediately fires Sessions/Rosenburg/Mueller, and many others.
Trump starts making himself, unofficially at first, President for Life.
Then what?
Given a majority of Americans will oppose all of the above - an organizing 'drumbeat' is greatly needed.
Political game strategists of all sorts have considered this it would seem.
Is it possible for Mueller to have filed numerous sealed indictments which can restart ' 'hard evidence for the democratic core to start from, .. . .drumbeat . . . resistance, . . . blue state governments.'?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
Ilsa
(64,368 posts)They'll monitor them online and turn it over to the FBI if the talk gets more serious, as in likely to try and instigate an attack.
Meanwhile, I suppose you could casually ask the wicked poster if they are part of a secessionist or white nationalist group.
Geez, why do they hate lesbians so much?
Volaris
(11,704 posts)Oh, the HORROR...
Ilsa
(64,368 posts)do hetersexual women with one or both hands or a good vibrator. 
If they only knew!
I always request a definition for the word treason. If they don't follow up I post it, then end everything by quoting the lyrics to God Bless America. (For some reason it really makes them mad.)
nolabear
(43,850 posts)Just as with the Second Amendment shriekers, when reasonable people don’t actually participate in what they’re howling about it’ll just fade away. But they have to sell outrage to keep the mob ginned up.
dameatball
(7,669 posts)"Well, we didn't get all dressed up for nothin."
This is how I figure many of the 3 %er types think. When you have more invested in weaponry, ammo, bulletproof vests and helmets than you do in your truck or your 401K....you want to eventually use it.
Locrian
(4,523 posts)When you have more invested in weaponry, ammo, bulletproof vests and helmets than you do in your truck or your 401K....you want to eventually use i
A lot of these guys (and they are mostly guys) buy their shit as some sort of magic talisman. That just by owning the "gear" makes them a fully qualified navy seal, ranger, green beret, etc.
Gym membership? Survival skills? Not so much....
3Hotdogs
(15,368 posts)Remember the asshole last year from Charlettsville who was in tears when he found out he might find his sorry ass in prison? Or the loser who was yelled at by his father for having a conversation with his racist friend while in his father's bedroom?
It is the Survivalist yahoos that would be the biggest threat.
Yeah, I'm what they would probably call a "libtard." Still, I earned the N.R.A. "First Bar" in riflery when I was a kid. It doesn't take much brains to learn how to hit a target. It may take a bit of practice and a good eye. My point is that in a "range war," all of the bullets wouldn't be flying in one direction.
Regarding a second Civil War, I believe it could be done without firing a bullet. There are enough assholes in Congress and enough conservative states, that they could change the Constitution to allow for secession. Of course, I don't know what they would do without east coast and west coast money to fund their states.
Volaris
(11,704 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)We are so divided, one side is openly cavorting with the country's sworn enemy. Divide the country in two along a geographical line, give adults that want to live in the other half assistance to relocate. Give minor children one chance to relocate once they reach 18 and before they turn 24.
MountCleaners
(1,148 posts)...about the Oklahoma City Bombing.
Response to area51 (Reply #23)
sfwriter This message was self-deleted by its author.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)They are not really talking about a civil war either.
They are talking about right wing/nazi/kkk terror attacks.
You really think there is an organized right wing army out there ready to take on the federal government?
99% of them are fat slob keyboard warriors that couldn't jog from the bedroom to the kitchen without passing out and are still living in mom's basement.
What they are hoping for is a wave of right wing terror attacks. Their right wing army such as it was in Cville has been decimated afterwords.
Only the lone crazed infowars/fox trump cultist killers remain.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)
This right here!
Locrian
(4,523 posts)It's a far cry from buying shit online and fondling your "weapons" to being cold, hungry, exhausted, afraid, etc on some patrol or mission.
The more common name for keyboard warriors in an actual battle is "cannon fodder"
Not that there aren't some hardcore nut-jobs with enough training and equipment to cause problems - but the general stuff on youtube and other posts - probably not so much to worry about.
Response to workinclasszero (Reply #24)
sfwriter This message was self-deleted by its author.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)waiting to attack the government if Orange Shitstain 45 is impeached.
Lots of separate small cells of potential right wing terror like the KKK, Nazis and various alt-right nutcase orgs yeah.
We can fear these cells acting out but these idiots are not going to seriously threaten the federal government.
A constitutional convention OTOH could be a real serious threat in many ways.
U.S. Constitution Threatened as Article V Convention Movement Nears Success
03.21.2018 / BY JAY RIESTENBERG
https://www.commoncause.org/resource/u-s-constitution-threatened-as-article-v-convention-movement-nears-success/#
wundermaus
(1,673 posts)has been very effective in dividing us. When the public discourse is poisoned with intentional distortion and exasperation within existing socioeconomic fault lines, we can be easily played. myself included. We must be vigilant to the poisoned manipulations of the public conversations, as there is no doubt of the sinister motives behind them. The Russians, et al are operating sort of like agent provocateurs on steroids warfare - with potentially devastating damage to our social fabric. The Russian mob has already declared war on us as we fight amongst our selves. So far, they have been very good at what they have done to us with a mole in the Whitehouse . I think their success even astounds them. Their exploitation of our ignorance and bias is a terrible handicap used against us - combined with domestic propaganda from our entertainment based "news" media has all but sealed fate.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)For example, London (Agnew's lawyer back in the day), said on TV something about tRump needs to resign to save his own "skin" from Mueller and then went on to say to save the "skin" of his children and grandchildren. It was a bad choice of metaphor. So of course the tRumpLickers call him "liberal" and some awful names.
However, they immediately jump to absurd conclusions because it fuels their worst fantasies, which they project on to the left. Note ironic tag line:
Taking their cues from Mexican drug cartels!?
38 posted on 8/24/2018, 4:51:33 PM by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
178 posted on 8/25/2018, 7:59:10 PM by Eleutheria5 (“If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization, then be prepared to accept barbarism.)
185 posted on 8/25/2018, 8:25:10 PM by datricker (Cut Taxes Repeal ACA Deport DACA - Americans First, Build the Wall, Lock her up MAGA!)
GoCubsGo
(34,914 posts)They're hoping it scares people out of voting Democrat. I really hope people are not falling for this shit.
Turbineguy
(40,074 posts)The last one was enjoyed by so many.
DBoon
(24,983 posts)All it takes is s few hundred or thousand of these individuals to take action to create very visible problems.
The Bundy gang shut down a major highway, and a group of a few dozen managed to take over a bird sanctuary for months.
In both cases it took law enforcement a long time to defuse the immediate incident. Sympathetic white rural juries make conviction difficult.
Multiply that by twenty and we have a problem.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The miscreants were allowed to talk up their cause. What should happen? No compromise, you take up armed insurrection against the country, you get two hours to either surrender or send out women and children that don't want to die. If the two hours go unanswered, everyone inside come out in a body bag. Two instances in succession of the later and talk of and armed insurrection ends.
xmas74
(30,058 posts)With very little repercussion.
These idiots would block the highway leading to the local Walmart, leading several to become bits and pieces and hood ornaments on a few pick ups.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)I told the dum-dum who said it if he wasn't just spewing hot air and they actually WERE going to commit treason against the United States of America they had better make sure to get it right on the first shot because otherwise I would personally make sure that what Sherman did to Atlanta would pale in comparison to what happened to them.
It did end the conversation and hastened the end of the get together, because these same goofers had done that to me 2-3 times in the Obama years and I said nothing out of politeness. The look on their faces was priceless though. They had neatly placed themselves in opposition to all their patriotic fetishism and I slammed the door leaving them out in the cold.
Later they told me I was overreacting to a joke. I told them that jokes are one thing, treason is another and that they learned something about me that perhaps they should keep in mind in the future.
gordianot
(15,772 posts)He did as I walked back into the house and returned to the drive way. My Father always told me when threatened do not make threats back. He mistook decades of silence. That was 10 years ago we have been free of him since.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)Yeah, they sounded like loons. Yes, they were lying and making stuff up.
But by not calling them out, all I did was enable them further.
So now, I speak my mind. I might smile like I did here while saying it, but I made my point.
spicysista
(1,731 posts)since 2012. Check the archives of amren and American thinker. The re-election of President Obama left many, on the right, distraught with fear. "The country has just....changed", was repeated in the most ominous manner all over fox news.
lpbk2713
(43,273 posts)Instigated by the silly ass keyboard commandos using Mom's computer.
underpants
(196,495 posts)I've heard tons of it rightwing radio.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)And it ain't going to .
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)Jesus Fucking Christ, can you imagine a General Alex Jones huffing along in his tinfoil army helmet? 
They are puffing themselves up but good. One or two of them might do something, but few will follow their lead. So on the one hand, there will not be a second Civil War. On the other hand, the handful who take action could cause some serious trouble in isolated areas.
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)When they settled down for a long winter siege (a la Washington at Valley Forge), and found themselves begging on the Internet for shipments of soda pop, Doritos, and Pop Tarts not a week later. They were sent dozens of cartons of sex toys instead.
Let's go to the tape, shall we? It never fails to amuse.
Again, these were their champions.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)Sounds familiar. 
xmas74
(30,058 posts)The gummy dicks might be mine. Several of us sent them.
Poor widdle babies never did get their socks, chewin' tobaccy and French vanilla creamer.
Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)That's pretty much what it'd be...
Walmart accoutrements; dumb as fuck; overweight; brainwashed ex-military and military wannabes.
They bought an AR and 1,000 rounds and told everyone it's for 'yotes and DEFINITELY NOT because of some warped, fear/ego-induced fantasy where they envision themselves as heroic figures protecting them and theirs from the inevitable starving hordes of black, brown, and libtard snowflake invaders streaming from the city when the SHTF. Note: This delusion is particularly hilarious, as most of them are way out of shape and would have a coronary if forced to run flat out 50 yards.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)
Generic Brad
(14,374 posts)If there is a revolution, it will be goaded on by Russian keyboard warriors but in actuality will amount to a single battle that will have to be canceled because only 23 single alt-right warriors who live in their parent's basements will actually show up.
Squinch
(59,522 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)They hang, to the last man and woman. No reason to have their decendants talking about their proud heritage 150 years after they lost.
xmas74
(30,058 posts)Thr Cheetos, Little Debbies and Mountain Dew plants. The yahoos who think they will kill a million libs will slither back to Mommy's basement before supper. Can't fight when you're lightheaded from a lack of snacks.
Glamrock
(12,003 posts)
SeattleVet
(5,903 posts)A few of the most over-the-edge ones declare that they are ready to hit the streets right now to protect their 'president' and 'murica.
Not sure how much we really have to worry about, from what we've seen in the past:
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Great pic of the fascist army waiting to start a violent revolution when their god emperor Trump is impeached.
struggle4progress
(126,150 posts)write a long manifesto about Area 51, stockpile guns and ammo, and then leave my parent's basement one day to start a global race war by killing everybody I meet at the supermarket!"
Kashkakat v.2.0
(1,940 posts)Ever since I read a detailed account of how that unfolded, its been at the back of my mind as a possibility. One striking parallel is the role hate radio played in that country towards fueling the mass slaughter of Tutsi. I remember quote from someone saying how ridiculous and over the top the radio broadcasts seemed to most people, until it was too late& the signal to commence slaughter was given ("cut down the tall trees."
I listen to rw hate radio from time to time, incl that whiny voiced Levin .... like fingernails on a chalkboard.