After the Jacksonville Shooting, We Need to Talk About White Male Rage

[Soph0571]

This is how white male supremacy works in America. No matter how many white men go on killing sprees because they didn’t get what they wanted (a woman’s attention, popularity in school, a white America), we never discuss the problem of white male rage. Every white killer is a separate and unique “isolated incident,” disconnected from any larger pattern. This is like declaring every tree in a forest to exist in singular solitude and the forest itself to be invisible. Worse, anyone pointing out the obvious existence of the forest is treated as a heretic by polite society because it’s just rude to ruffle the leaves of all the trees. They’re extremely fragile and cannot handle any kind of criticism. After all, you never know what might set another one of them off on a completely isolated killing spree. They’re just under so much pressure these days!

But that’s the result of creating a society that tells exactly one group, white men, that the universe is theirs to command and control; that everything is theirs for the taking. When white men don’t get what they want, how they want, the way they want it, they lash out in a mindless rage at anyone and everyone they blame for denying them what they feel entitled to. Maybe if we stopped coddling them, they’d stop being so fucking fragile. And then maybe, just maybe, they’d stop killing so many of us in petulant rages when they don’t get their way.

The sooner we start talking about the problem instead of finding every excuse imaginable to avoid discussing white male rage, the better off the world will be.

[link:https://thedailybanter.com/issues/2018/08/27/white-male-rage/|

Lone Wolf bollocks is just that...bollocks

[ariadne0614]

1. Toxic masculinity is at the root of so many problems.

https://www.alternet.org/gender/masculinity-killing-men-roots-men-and-trauma?src=newsletter1095650

[Squinch]

2. Great article! Dead on. Especially on the Wapo coverage of it. It infuriated me.

[Soph0571]

3. You will enjoy this article also...

https://www.newstatesman.com/world/north-america/2015/11/america-s-domestic-terrorists-why-there-s-no-such-thing-lone-wolf

It is from a few years ago - but just as relevant today

[Sancho]

4. Virtually all of these shooters are known to be dangerous by someone...

family, friends, school staff, counselors, therapists, spouses, etc...NONE are consulted. We usually ask people to take a vision test when they get a driver's license - not to diagnose vision problems, but to keep OBVIOUS problems off the road. There is no rational check on gun possession.

There is nothing to prevent an angry, young man who has been treated by mental health professionals from walking into Walmart and buying whatever guns and ammunition he desires. There is no accounting when stockpiling weapons. Nothing.

Our society is as crazy as the individuals doing the shooting.

[Lee-Lee]

12. Actually there is, and the government as well as his family failed to use it

As well as the mental health professionals and police, they all failed.

According to what’s been released so far he was diagnosed with schizophrenia as a teenager and was involuntarily hospitalized for treatment at least twice.

He should have been barred from purchasing firearms.

But you have several things at play. Some states refuse to report juveline commitments to NICS. His parents, as is very typical, failed to acknowledge the real seriousness of his condition and while they still had parental authority take appropriate actions that would have led to him being reported to NICS (divorce records show his dad was obviously in deep denial about his sons issues, refusing to believe the diagnosis given by mental health professionals)

On top of that the people who treated him could have, and should have, reported their findings and diagnosis to the courts to have him flagged in NICS to bar him from passing a background check. But in so many cases like this they don’t. Some because they are lazy. Some because they object to adding a stigma to mental illness.

On top of that the police had been called to his home over 25 times for probelms and even domestic disturbances caused by him. But no charges were ever filed, probably because as typical Parents in denial about how serious their child’s problems are the parents wanted to “keep him out of the system”. They called and got the police to defuse the situation just enough and they acted like everything would be ok after that. Well, he should have been in the system. Because then he would have at this point at least been on probation and probation means no firearms possessed and you can’t pass a NICS check. Or at a minimum the reports would have come up when they did the deeper check required in MD to get a permit to own a handgun.

The tools were there on multiple levels, and at each opportunity they were not used.

On top of the NICS system Maryland has one of the most restrictive processes to purchase a handgun in the nation, requiring you to submit to a more in-depth background check and even submit fingerprints to get a license to own a handgun. He did that and passed with flying colors. Because nobody in the past did the right thing.

[Kittycow]

82. I appreciate you explaining that so clearly.

[HopeAgain]

5. I am a white male full of rage

at the U.S. gun culture, the oppression of women through a rape culture, the appropriation of Christianity by demagoguery, and persistent racism and xenophobia. Does that count?

[NCTraveler]

59. Big time.

[ariadne0614]

144. You sound like an enlightened ally to me.

We need more like you.

[ck4829]

6. K&R

[Mister Ed]

7. " But that's the result of creating a society...

...that tells exactly one group, white men, that the universe is theirs to command and control; that everything is theirs for the taking."

Good lord. The heavy truth of that statement hit me like the proverbial ton of bricks.

[CrispyQ]

90. As we stand on an ecological brink, they still think they are superior & should be in charge.

[brush]

108. Yep, and some of the ones who don't get to do the taking can't take it and end up taking it out...

on others.

[WestIndianArchie]

8. Amen

I am an advocate of rounding them up and tossing these assholes in prison if they have displayed any hint of racism/white supremacy.

[el_bryanto]

24. Hard to actually do I would think n/t

[WestIndianArchie]

45. Not hard

Simply use big data to target them, it's all there. Have you ever been to stormfront or 4chan? You could probably arrest enough terrorist from those 2 sites alone to put a significant dent in the problem.

[el_bryanto]

52. Well now I've never been to Stormfront or 4 Chan

Although I suppose now I'm glad I haven't since I don't want to be arrested.

Bryant

[WestIndianArchie]

56. hahaha

If you want to lose some of your faith in humanity. Stop in and have a look at some of the comments. These are only the 2 sites I know about that racist/white supremacist used to organize their activities, I'm pretty sure there are more

[Calista241]

69. 4chan does a LOT more than provide a forum to right wingers

It's a lot like Reddit.

[WestIndianArchie]

71. OK

So you say

[Calista241]

75. So, i'll cop to being a huge nerd that likes science fiction.

4chan is a great resource for my Star Wars, Destiny and Warhammer 40k lore addiction. If I don't have time to buy and read 50 books for my lore fix, I can go to 4chan and get a reasonable summary of the pertinent background.

4chan is more like a mixture of Reddit and Wikipedia, where there are pages of "official information" and then the comment threads. Their comment threads, like all comment threads, can be hijacked, manipulated, and abused. But in my interest areas, most commenters genuinely try to contribute to the knowledge base.

In Destiny, my big computer game focus, some techy users datamine the updates Bungie (which publishes Destiny) pushes out. From this datamined info, you can get the latest rumars, wishlists, and some hints on where to get all the good gear you want.

[Decoy of Fenris]

111. "Warhammer 40k lore addiction". Sounds oddly familiar.

[Calista241]

139. Nice username. ;)

40k lore addiction indeed.

[Decoy of Fenris]

141. I'll refrain from memeing further. :P

Always good to see another 40k lorehound here. It's tough to find Dems among the alt-right coopting of 40k.

[Calista241]

147. Fuck Erebus.

That is all.

[Decoy of Fenris]

148. Crap. I think he heard you.

[Marengo]

42. Would you advocate the same for non-white persons who display any hint of race based prejudice?

[WestIndianArchie]

43. ?????

It only seems to be these racist/white supremacist male suspects actually committing these evil act against us all. Because they seem to be the domestic terrorists then we should target and treat them accordingly wouldn't you agree.

[Marengo]

44. You didn't answer the question. Try again.

[WestIndianArchie]

48. Sorry about that I misunderstood

As a society, why would we have to arrest any non-whites that harbour prejudicial feelings? They aren't engaging in mass killings of citizens, especially school children. because they are fragile weak or ineffectual as men.

Racist/White supremacist males are operating in our country like terrorist cells, so why not treat them like the domestic terrorists they are. Our country already has laws on the books that could be used to stop this degenerate behaviour.

[Marengo]

54. Was Syed Farook white? Omar Mateen? Aaron Alexis? Seung-Hui Cho? John Allen Muhammad?

Christopher Dormer?

[WestIndianArchie]

55. Oh

None of these folks killed as many as weak, ineffectual, impotent racist/white supremacist males. Every one of these shooters you named was punished severely. Typically in our country, racist/white supremacist males do not receive punishment for their criminal behaviour. I'm just saying.

As a society, this would be easy. Round them up, jail them and throw away the key.

[Marengo]

60. You are advocating life imprisonment of individuals with no criminal record based on gender,

Race, and ideology?

[WestIndianArchie]

64. hahaha

We live in dangerous times. We cannot continue as a society to fail to deal with a clear and present dangerous national security threat (Racist/White supremacist males)

I read that FBI report that basically stated the same about racist/white supremacist males.

I am advocating for a safe society. If a safe society means removing its most violent, caustic and degenerate members, then so be it.

Try not to be so obvious in your attempts to mischaracterize my statements.

[sarisataka]

74. Wow

...just wow

[Squinch]

103. Shocking when the shoe is put on the other foot, isn't it?

Our culture has been saying this - and often acting on it - about young black men for generations. And our culture obviously still does often act on that sentiment.

[WestIndianArchie]

104. wow

We just can't figure out how to stop it I tell ya

[sarisataka]

114. I get it, the fix is easy

Dangerous to be allowed in society. Even if they haven't done anything now the potential is great that they will eventually do something.
The best thing we can do is concentrate these dangerous elements and isolate them from society in distant camps. This will eliminate their threat to society

[WestIndianArchie]

121. hahaha

So we agree, imprison them?

[sarisataka]

123. Yes that will do for now

Pending a final solution

[Decoy of Fenris]

125. This conversation has been a gas to follow.

Must be a really, -really- late night at the office for some folks. Working till 8:30 at night. That's some dedication right there; almost like working with a gun pressed to the back of your skull.

[sarisataka]

128. .

[WestIndianArchie]

126. I think you're bit extreme, hold on there

I didn't say anything about a final solution. I did say they should be treated just like any other terrorists operating in our country (find, round up and imprison) and dealt with according to the letter of the law.

Do you have any workable solutions that will really impact this problem???

[sarisataka]

130. You have not been talking about the letter of the law

You have been advocating using " Big Data" to locate anyone expressing any " hint of racism or white supremacy" and " locking them up and throwing away the key"

In your scenario, which you have specifically said you walk nothing back, a comment on social media would be considered equivalent to an act of terrorism and result in life imprisonment

The only solutions I can think of are sociological and are going to take a very long time. Mass imprisonment would likely have an opposite effect of what you desire

[WestIndianArchie]

133. Big data

algorithms are used to predict crime, buying behaviour, political leanings, possible terrorism, abnormal behaviour in airports, logistical flows, capital markets, The draft in all major sports and just about all other aspects of our lives. They seem to work in all of these, Why not use it to stem the tide of racist/white supremacist male violence?

I would love to live in a society where I wouldn't have to worry about my child or wife or a family member or friends or neighbours being killed by one of these degenerates, wouldn't you?

The FBI itself has said the number one threat to our national security is "Domestic Terrorist" specifically racist/white supremacists and white nationalist groups.

How do you think we can solve this problem?

[sarisataka]

135. Given the choice between a world

Where an algorithm monitors people and determines who is a potential future risk of criminal action at which point they are locked up or a world where we go about taking our chances and you have the risk of being a victim of violence?
I will choose the second thank you. I view that as the less dangerous of the two.

That would be a good premise for a movie however

[WestIndianArchie]

137. Fair enough

I believe that we are dealing with a degenerate social construct that's killing people daily (racist/white supremacist terrorism) and because of the shift in the demographics of this country, it is becoming more deadly.

We disagree.

[sarisataka]

110. When there is Injustice against the demographic

There are 2 possible solutions to create equality.
One is to correct that Injustice and bring everyone up to be equal and Justice dealt fairly.
The other is to throw out any illusion of Justice and treat everyone with equal Injustice.

I prefer the first solution.

The argument that "we are just making Society safe" has been used as an excuse for Injustice and genocide from ancient times through Modern Fascism and espoused by the KKK. I do not want to add myself to that grouping.

[WestIndianArchie]

120. I don't understand?

Are you saying they should be punished like everyone else that engages in terroristic acts? or we should not get proactive and try and stop them before they kill again? We should try and provide equal justice without punishing injustice. Are you saying if we punish racist/white supremacist domestic terrorists, then we are committing an injustice? I'm confused

[Marengo]

127. I'm not surprised you would be confused. Those who promote fascist policies generally are...

Confused by anything other than the simplest of concepts.

[WestIndianArchie]

136. That's not very nice

So I am promoting fascist policies because I want to solve the racist/white supremacist domestic terror problem plaguing our country?

What solutions/ideas do you have?

[Marengo]

76. You wrote: "As a society, this would be easy. Round them up, jail them and throw away the key"

You are advocating the permanent imprisonment of a specific demographic group based on racial and ideological characteristics. You can’t walk that that back with a ridiculous claim of mischaracterization. At least have the integrity to own it.

[WestIndianArchie]

91. Oh

The vast majority of these heinous acts are being committed by one subset of a racial group (racist/white supremacist males) with very specific and degenerate ideological characteristics (murder, death and mayhem) they are actively and continuously harming our society without punishment. Do you believe we should allow this behaviour to continue, unchecked? From what I understand and witness on a daily basis, racist/white supremacist males don't seem to have any compunction killing women, children, whites, non-whites alike.

I make no attempt to walk anything back. I actually thought I was clarifying my statement. So here it goes again, If we as society wanted to solve this problem, we would use big data, find them just like our government does any other terrorist cells, round them up, lock them up and throw away the key.

If that wasn't clear enough for you, then I don't know what else to say.

[Marengo]

115. Reinhard Heydrich will be calling, he thinks you'd be a great fit for his organization.

[WestIndianArchie]

122. Who is that?

I don't give out my number man. So he ain't calling me

[Marengo]

129. Please tell me you are joking.

[WestIndianArchie]

131. hahaha

Ok, I was trying to toss you a funny. lol

We obviously disagree on what the solution is to racist/white supremacist male domestic terror.

Do you have any ideas that may help to stem the tide domestic terror?

[sarisataka]

124. I'm glad

I'm not the only one that sees it

[Marengo]

132. It's something I would expect to see on Stormfront, not DU.

[wasupaloopa]

70. It isn't aginst the law to demonstrate racism/white supremecy

May be should lock you up without you breaking the law.

Now don't accuse me of supporting racism white supremacy. I just support the Constitution.

[WestIndianArchie]

107. huh?

[RhodeIslandOne]

152. The Jacksonville shooter displayed no political leanings

He was however clearly mentally ill and his family was vocal about it. Domestic violence laws fail again.

[WestIndianArchie]

156. Oh

According to CNN, The police had been called to his home 26 times.

But somehow, not one person could figure out how to get him some institutional assistance, Prison or otherwise.

[RhodeIslandOne]

157. Because being schizophrenic is not illegal

Yet.

[WestIndianArchie]

160. True

The township I live in the police would have gotten him some help and it would not have taken 26 times. It may have been a jail cell, a state mental hospital but he would have gotten help. Again, no one can find a way to punish violent white males for criminal behaviour.

[RhodeIslandOne]

162. There's punishment for mental illness where you are?

Hmm....

[WestIndianArchie]

164. Now you're being facetious..

Last edited Wed Aug 29, 2018, 06:36 AM - Edit history (1)

[genxlib]

9. Silly Rabbit

Systemic cultural blame is for brown people.

This was clearly just another case of mental health in a lone individual

[IronLionZion]

10. White males are often enraged by women, immigrants, minorities, etc.

society has failed to help these poor misunderstood white males get access to mental health treatment, preference for good jobs/schools, and sex with whoever they feel entitled to. Not to mention systemic control over the narrative of this issue. So they're the real victims here.

[mythology]

40. So you think a guy with a mental illness wouldn't have benefitted from more mental health treatment

Not all of the downsides of the toxic masculinity can be covered under the notion that if we just learned the world isn't ours things would be fine.

For example if we didn't tie up so much of being a man in not using mental health services, in winning above all else, in our job defines our worth.

[RhodeIslandOne]

153. The mental health movement is largely ignored on DU

[IronLionZion]

165. People who seek mental health treatment are often bullied for appearing weak

or punished in other ways. There are strong social stigmas to discourage men from seeking mental health treatment.

Those stigmas might be even worse for people in lower income or immigrant or minority communities than the upper middle class white males who solve their problem through mass murder. I would like people to have access to mental health treatment. I'm against using it as an excuse whenever a white male shoots a lot of people.

A mental health screening can be part of getting a gun permit, for example.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

11. Issue is privilege, not coddling. Need to raise whites and males as equals, not supreme. . . . nt

[PunkinPi]

16. It's both, they aren't mutually exclusive and it becomes a feedback loop.

I tend to agree with Michelle Obama here:

From there, Obama explained that all the issues that come with male adulthood stem from the way society raises its boys.

"The problem in the world today is we love our boys and we raise our girls. We raise them to be strong and sometimes we take care not to hurt men. And I think we pay for that a little bit," she said. "And that’s a 'we' thing because we’re raising them."

Obama then posed the question asking whether or not we are coddling young men too much "so they feel entitled and a little self-righteous sometimes?" And she added, "But that’s kind of on us too as women and mothers as we nurture men and we push girls to be perfect."

Source: https://www.glamour.com/story/the-problem-with-men-michelle-obama-entitled
___
We all need to do better.

[PunkinPi]

13. K&R

[LittleGirl]

14. Where do these men get this message?

Seriously, I don't think I've ever seen it broadcast that white males are superior.
I don't believe that teachers do this in the classroom (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't believe this is a cultural problem only angry males have access to guns especially in states like FL that have no gun control whatsoever.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

37. It may be hard to see because, as they say, you're soaking in it.

Women get about fewer percent of speaking parts on TV, and their roles are often limited to that of "wife" or "mother" to a male main character. Boys are called on more often than girls in class. White males are rewarded with higher wages and faster promotions in our competitive capitalism-based economy and society. When individual white males don't feel like they're getting the rewards society tells them are their birthright, it breeds resentment.

[LittleGirl]

50. thank you for that.

I know it's hard for me to understand...I just don't get these violent men and they are all men.

[Squinch]

84. There are studies of teachers that find boys get many more TIMES

the amount of attention as girls in the average classroom.

[LittleGirl]

149. You know,

I do remember reading something about that. It's been so long since I was in school (78 grad, and got my BS in 2005) that I wasn't sure if that study was real.
thanks for the clarification.

[Squinch]

87. Also, look up the Bechdel rule about women's roles in films.

Its an eye opener.

[Trust Buster]

15. Ridiculous article. Sanctimonious crap.

This was a kid with a history of mental problems that couldn’t handle the fact that he lost a video game tournament. To claim that this kid acted the way he did because he was a white male who felt that “the universe was his to command and control” is nothing short of ignorant and racist IMO.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

17. This post for the win

Excellent!

[Tarc]

20. Toxic masculinity has dominated pro gaming for years, and they are almost all white

Yes, it is indeed the core of the problem, turning a blind eye won't help. So if this a topic you have the stomach to tackle, then move on to some lighter fare.

[Fix The Stupid]

36. "crickets"...

Can't handle this discussion here. You'll never get an answer to this question.

Better just to blame it all on 'whites'...

It's easier this way then to actually try and confront and solve the issue.

Sad.

[LanternWaste]

83. Those crickets certainly got noisy, eh?

"You'll never get an answer to this question..."

(It's fun to pretend prophecy. As long as we fully realize that pretense is all it is.)

[Squinch]

88. Crickets certainly do give thorough, informative answers these days.

[Fix The Stupid]

93. I trust the crickets over the paid hacks. YMMV n/t.

[Squinch]

96. I lulzed. Why don't you go ahead and rebut all those crickets.

[spicysista]

57. This thread is not about that.

If you are serious, here's an excellent article which explains everything that's wrong with your response. Honestly, most folks that go on about "black on black" crime are actually bigots that rest on otherism. Ask yourself, have you ever heard the phrase uttered about any other group?
Please, read the article. It isn't very long. This topic is utterly tiring for black folk because, unlike many,we actually do care about crime that affects all poverty stricken areas. Trailer park and ghettos, crime is crime.....except when talking about black people.

Article here: https://www.thenation.com/article/about-black-black-crime/

[NCTraveler]

61. Oppression. Lack of opportunity. A multi-tiered legal system.

And yes, you can couple that with testosterone.

[haele]

66. Actually, sociologists do identify toxic masculinity as part of a "gang culture" mentality.

When looking at studies on minority gangs, the idea of being a "soldier" for the gang boss, of being a swaggering man who gains respect through violence is identified as the primary reason for "black on black" or "brown on brown" assaults, rapes, and murders.

We as a country just don't talk about it with white males as much, because who thinks they should be afraid of their average but resentful accountant or IT professional who questions why his life isn't as "cool" or as easy as that of his reflections in the corporatized media mirror suggests he should have it?

Enforced gender roles are toxic, for males, females and any of the more fluid variants that abound.

Any society that requires males to identify as either tribal warrior studs or wimps to be victimized suffers from toxic masculinity.
Any society that requires females to identify as secondary roles to a male-run society suffers from toxic femininity.
Any society that requires the color of one's (or one's ancestor's) skin to define the hierarchy of power or rights of citizenship one is entitled to suffers from toxic racial bias.

And if you're situated more at the top of the toxic political mess that separates and categorizes people into amorphous "groupings" when it comes to how much representation and what type of resource one may be "entitled to", it's very hard to see what happens to all the others who have been categorized below you.

The reality in the American cultural shorthand is that socially speaking, the lighter you are, the higher you are ranked socially and politically.
After that, what gender you are and then it's how much more money or property you have than others around you. What it comes down to is the lighter and better off you are, the more "excuses" you're allowed for failure, because you're represented as more "normal" to most people in power and they're going to give you the same benefit of the doubt they expect for themselves.

The darker you are, the closer to being an animal you are in most eyes, sadly even amongst many who have darker skin. Black on black crime is decried, but expected, because that's the sort of thing low primitives do, fight amongst themselves for petty reasons.

White males lashing out in public because they didn't get what they want?
Well, that's expected - but they're defending their honor. Because that's what rich sociopaths do. They have to show people who's boss...
(But men only, because you know that women who act out are unnatural and corrupted creatures)

This is a major problem people want to avoid. Because changing social norms, social thinking is hard work for a good half the population who can't conceive of anything outside their own experiences. It's so seductively easier not to push back or question one's own expectations, when one can remain the hero in one's own mind.

Haele

[treestar]

86. could be; though likely more complex than that

this isn't the only macho culture by a long shot. Still, you are kind of changing the subject.

[RhodeIslandOne]

151. And yet there have been hundreds of these tournaments

Over the years and no one has gotten shot, and the all the victims were “gamers” you sneer at as well who were all simply enjoying their hobby.

Guns are seeping their way into every aspect of American life. Let’s put it where it belongs, the fucking guns.

[Tarc]

166. Your point doesn't override mine, they can both be in play.

Entitled white privilege and easy access to guns has been the playbook for how many tragedies in recent times? Most? All?

[Paladin]

22. Yeah, well. At least he had access to all the guns and ammo he wanted, right?

[Trust Buster]

23. So do Americans of all colors, right ?

[Paladin]

25. Yeah, that's the hallmark of this country's mass murderers, all right:

Ethnic diversity.

C'mon, you're making this way too easy.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

39. I live in Chicago. I had to roll my eyes at the op.

[Squinch]

94. If a black man is stopped by a cop and is found to be carrying, what

is the likely outcome? Is it the same for a white man?

And given the answer to that, do you still believe both have the same right to carry guns?

[Trust Buster]

97. Terribly off topic.

[Squinch]

98. Not really. You said every race has equal access to guns. I say they don't.

[LuvNewcastle]

26. Thank you!

[Trust Buster]

28. What kind of "fragility" would explain the explosive minority shootings that happen in major cities

All around this country every weekend ? This would be good to be aware of.

[Marcuse]

46. Perceived oppression promotes fragility. Real oppression really promotes fragility.

It is not paranoia if you are really at risk. Most of violence to which you refer is over profit, market share and accounts receivable more than machismo. Moreover, those perps are not tactically suicidal. That having been said, the entire human race is vulnerable to testosterone poisoning.

[Trust Buster]

47. So, you are saying that all males believe that they "control and command" the universe ?

[Marcuse]

63. Most of us can control and command our selfish instincts most of the time.

[Trust Buster]

65. But, that is true of people in general and not just males.

[Marcuse]

150. Yes, but we are discussing the people who strike out and why.

Hence the fragility postulations.

[Trust Buster]

58. So I can't honestly disagree with an OP that opens up a huge umbrella by suggesting that a

24 year old with a history of mental health issues did what he did because the shooter thought that being a white male entitled him to “control and command” his universe without being accused of being “fragile” because I am white ? That is ridiculous. I have an honest disagreement with the OP’s use of such generalities in such a complex world. Please debate the issue and spare me your labeling.

[Squinch]

92. You have a disagreement because you can't see the white male privilege

and how pervasive it is. Those of us who are not male and/or not white do.

Have you heard the adage 'men fear women will laugh at them, women fear men will kill them'? Do you think it is literal or do you think it is hyperbole?

[Squinch]

142. Clearly you do see it. I can understand how some don't, but

I'm really losing patience for them.

[Squinch]

154. I'm a woman and I didn't see it at first either. For years. Maybe till my late thirties.

Then when I saw it, I couldn't unsee it.

[Squinch]

163. That reflection technique is great! Not a technique, but that Bechdel test that I referred to

in another post is really very eye opening. I'm sure you have heard of it, but it looks at books and movies and women's roles in them. It simply asks if there are two or more named female characters, and whether they speak, and when they speak do they speak about something other than a man.

It is shocking how many new and classical works cannot pass the test.

[RobinA]

146. Calling Someone

“privileged” who has been diagnosed as having schizophrenia makes it impossible to take any other part of the attached argument seriously. It’s just so...wrong.

[Squinch]

155. How many schizophrenic women have gone on shooting sprees?

[Squinch]

89. Why, I think we have a very instructive example right in this thread!

[Squinch]

105. Lol! Funny how you edited that! It was a bit blatant.

[brush]

112. Criminals commit crimes against those closest to them. White criminals as well.

[zanana1]

29. I knew this would happen.

The OP had courage; I knew there'd be a backlash.

[Trust Buster]

30. Courage ? The OP painted with a broad brush with respect to a 24 year old with past mental

Disease committing a shooting because he lost a video game tournament. I would not call the OP “courageous”, I would call it “intellectually lazy”. Life is so much more complex than to generalize that this was just a white kid that thought he was master of the universe. Please.

[zanana1]

32. I think that was an example of white fragility. nt

[Trust Buster]

33. What was an example of white fragility ?

[Squinch]

159. LOL!

[brush]

116. What is your guess on the percentage of mass killers being white males? It's pretty high.

[Calculating]

67. Thank you

For bringing a little sanity into this thread. This shooting had absolutely nothing to do with white males or toxic masculinity. It was a selfish guy who lost at video games and decided to kill people over it. A perfect example of the 'participation trophy' mentality more than anything else.

[DavidDvorkin]

134. You're right

Unfortunately, this type of racist, sexit nonsense has become common and acceptable on DU.

[Lonestarblue]

18. What is the source of thie rage?

I know that Fox and hate radio stoke anger and hatred, but millions of young white males who hear that nonsense do not buy guns and kill people. So what exactly does create young (and sometimes not so young) men who kill, sometimes in anger but sometimes well planned in advance. Certainly mental illness comes into play. Is it parents? Is it violent games? Unstable home environments? And even those who do not actually kill have warped views like those of white supremacists. Easy access to guns can be changed with laws, although the country is awash in guns so they’ll still be available through illegal means. But how do you change the creation of toxic masculinity in the first place? I feel as though we just go in circles after every mass shooting trying to figure out why, but nothing we do prevents the next shooting. There is no one answer, but if f we can’t address real causes, we can’t address the problem. I have no solutions, just frustration.

[cate94]

19. This kid was mentally ill.

I don’t think the privilege statement fits in this instance. OTOH, that assessment works 90% of the time. These men with rage issues are toddlers in men’s bodies, with access to guns.

[Squinch]

99. Of course. So were the umpteen other white males who shot up crowds.

Whereas any non-white man who shot up a crowd was a terrorist. That's just how it works.

[cate94]

117. No, really read his history.

Yeah sarcasm. They use this excuse all the time, but this kid had serious documented mental health issues for years, and still he obtained the guns legally.

Most of these white dudes have rage issues, which isn’t a mental illness. They just are privileged guys having temper tantrums.

[PatrickforO]

31. Lots of anger, lots of rage.

To me, the culprit is that we all feel trapped as meaningless wage slaves, cogs in a giant capitalist wheel. I suspect most people, regardless of gender, race, ethnicity or sexual orientation feel this to some extent.

As to white males, well...yes. Hard to understand when a white guy goes off on the racist or misogynist hate trail and then kills a bunch of people. Based in fear, I guess, fear of losing...what?

What, I wonder, is the root of toxic masculinity? Could it be capitalism?

[Calculating]

73. Capitalism has turned our economy into a zero sum game

If you're winning it's because somebody else is losing, and if you're losing it's because others are winning at your expense. It's easy to get quite angry while slaving away in such a system. No pay raises in years, cost of living keeps going up, no real opportunity for advancement, etc.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

34. Is it "Fortnight" or something that is recruiting alt-righters?

Dangerous to have people whispering in your ear when youre shooting guns etc.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

78. In this case yes. But, the alt-right is using war games online to inculcate

people w hate and to instigate weak links. Whispering sweet hate filled nothings in a kids(adults) ear while they destroy life and property in a fantasy universe, seems to be behavioral conditioning.

[Decoy of Fenris]

62. Careful. As many people play Fortnite as voted in 2016.

The same amount of people (Granted, worldwide not just nationally) play a game for fun as voted. That says less about gaming and more about the abysmal state of American politics.


EDIT: "Voted in 2016", not "last year".

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

79. I'm not sure if that was the game. I read where some alt-right messiah has

his own war game. i thought it was that one. I don't play video games.

[Decoy of Fenris]

101. I mean, I can give my gaming anecdotes, but that's far from gospel truth, of course.

Every game in existence, so long as it has an online factor, has its own right-wing propaganda machine. That's not a design or function of the game necessarily, it's more that socially reclusive people tend towards playing games as social outlets. At its most fundamental social levels, online gaming is essentially nothing more than a very lightly moderated forum with few, if any, rules.

Imagine if D.U. did away with the jury system and opened its doors to everyone of every political stripe; You now have the average gaming community in a nutshell. Calm, rational voices are smart enough not to engage, and the loud right-wing types have free reign. Therefore, their message is propagated, either through overt agreement ingame or through seeding the ideas/ideals of the right wing passively into their target audience. Certain games, such as EVE online, actually end up with clans having their own "propaganda" divisions devoted to spreading their messaging exactly how they want it to be heard, and right-wingers who now have damn-near professional levels of skill and tools at their disposal start using those skills in other avenues of social media. The article below is a good read if you want insight into the mind of a right-wing gamer. Follow at your own risk:

[https://www.resetera.com/threads/former-white-supremacist-leader-confirms-groups-using-multiplayer-gaming-to-recruit-young-people.52239/|]


And as an instance of the type, style and professionalism these folks can achieve, I'd direct you here:

[https://www.pcgamer.com/eve-online-propaganda/]

[https://kotaku.com/just-like-real-life-eve-online-wars-are-won-with-propa-1828497882]


Also, if you fancy a read into the day-to-day life of some of these social interactions (specific to EVE online, the game most notorious for doubledealing, backstabbing and propaganda), I'd further direct you here:

[https://www.amazon.com/Empires-EVE-History-Great-Online/dp/0990972429]



From a sociologist's perspective, the whole phenomenon is incredibly interesting to study.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

106. Thanks. i try to click on as few as possible on the internet.

i appreciate the time it took you to do that though.

[Decoy of Fenris]

109. I can't say I blame you. Links are always suspect.

The general gist of all of those links is, essentially: Gamers know propaganda. They know what works, and they know where best to apply pressure when pressure is needed. Not all of them are right-wing (Gamers are a mutually pan-political crew), but the right-wing weaponizes that knowledge against, to wit, "The Left". The right-wing propaganda machine online has fairly successfully established as "world-canon" that ills of the world are the cause of a nebulous "The Left" (Note the lack of actual party). Paradoxically, most of these groups don't have a political bent (though right-wing is the default if there is politics present), and their goals are as simple as "Make the Left suffer. Burn the world, so long as The Left knows [our] pain." In making "The Left" a scapegoat for every ill of mankind and of every individual misfortune, each member sees themselves as a noble crusader aiming to free the world from the oppression of "The Left" no matter where it may lie.

As I pointed out above, their enemy is described as "The Left" because it's as non-committal in a world dialogue as you can get. It's not anti-Democrat, or anti-Labour, or even pro-Republican, but essentially Anti-Democracy at its core and applies to any country that has an internet connection.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

113. Thanks for boiling that down.

instructive and well written.

[Decoy of Fenris]

118. As with all things, it's more nuanced than what I posted, but it's almost impossible to sum up.

Every game society has different subcultures, different techniques, different means and different ends. To categorize them all under "Gamer" or "Games" is a gross fallacy; To some gamers, "sports gamers" may as well be an entirely different species, while "sports gamers" would look at other subtypes of gamer and consider them "Nerds".


Anyways, I could talk on this subject for ages. The whole phenomenon is a fantastic study. I'll let it go for now, just to avoid spamming your My Posts with response after response of things I've forgotten to include.

[Roy Rolling]

35. Worth Thinking About

What is the connection? Like European countries, there are the same number of mental patients as in America, but only in America do patients commit massacres.

Similarly, there are millions of jilted white males out there, but only a handful commit massacres.

I still think it's the guns, but it's worth noting how many white males commit these murders.

[dembotoz]

68. yep....if people carry guns people will use them yes small percentage

but sucks if you are there when one goes off

[gordianot]

38. Not that different than the rage from the Oval Office.

...... other than how they manifest that rage. I am not sure this is mainly the property of “white males” (whatever group consists of white males). Given how and whom a similar sounding groups voted in the 2016 Presidential election I am in no position to argue. As one who many would operationally define as “white male” yes they are a problem when carrying weapons, internet devices, wearing clothes with odd white collars, have a creepy orange skin color, etc. etc. .

[Goodheart]

41. Obviously our laws are ineffective.

We need legislation that keeps white male citizens from being born into this country.

[wasupaloopa]

72. I would ignore most of the responces to this thread. They are usually not reasoned or lawful.

Of course they will accuse you of being a racist white supremacist if you disagree in any way with them.

[Major Nikon]

49. ...

The exception fallacy occurs when data about an individual is used to draw conclusions about a group of people.

http://changingminds.org/disciplines/argument/fallacies/exception.htm

[struggle4progress]

77. Let's be honest: who amongst us hasn't sometimes wanted to go on a shooting spree

after losing a video game?



It is one of our great American freedoms that we can all have the guns and ammo we need to fulfill such dreams

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

81. I'm going on record with a big NOT ME. on this one.

i've never felt like shooting a gun when I am mad about anything. I think about running on the trails.

[jalan48]

80. Super Predators are they?

[LanternWaste]

85. No surprise the violent, young, white male is again described as "troubled."

Seems the default descriptor for violent, young, white males.

[Caliman73]

100. There is no ONE thing that we should be talking about.

One attribute does not correlate with and especially, does not have a causal relationship with this mass violence. Yes, White Men have been the group most associated with mass shootings in the US. Yes, there is a culture that glorifies violence. Yes, toxic masculinity affect all men, not just White men. Yes, the criminal justice system and the media treat criminal acts by White people and People of Color very differently in terms of motive and coverage in general. Yes, guns are too easy to access.

All of the above, plus the effects of stress, poverty, and disconnect from community and family are contributing factors to the violence that we are seeing, which in reality, is still trending downward.

Talking about White Male Rage is not "the thing" that will solve this problem, although it is important in the context of a discussion of how society responds to these events.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

102. Sure do... thanks for posting.

[Bonx]

158. Says some fat guy at 'the daily banter'.

What a load of crap.