Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 02:50 PM Aug 2018

My new explanation on why Trump supporters still stand by him...

...it goes like this. Usually there is a mixed crowd. A few people who support Trump, more who detest Trump and some quiet folks where you don't know where they stand. I try to take the lead during a quiet time in the conversation. I then take a very smooth tone. Usually, I'm the most historically rooted person in the group.

So, I say, "Look, I can understand why people who voted for Trump continue to support him. I remember when I was just 8 years old and Jack Kennedy became the first Irish Catholic President. The pride of all the Irish Catholics was overwhelming. They never thought they would ever see the day that one of their own would occupy the highest position in America. And I remember the November night in 2008, when Barak Obama became the first African-American President. The pride of every African-American in seeing one of their own become President. An accomplishment few even dreamed that they would ever see. If you can understand how those people felt in the elections of one of their own, then you can understand that a racist-bigot would have the same fellings now that one of their own is President."



71 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
My new explanation on why Trump supporters still stand by him... (Original Post) louis c Aug 2018 OP
The difference is neither the Hayduke Bomgarte Aug 2018 #1
Correct DallasNE Aug 2018 #54
Critical point! ailsagirl Aug 2018 #59
That is sweet.... Dan Aug 2018 #2
Isn't That Too Subtle? ProfessorGAC Aug 2018 #3
CHUD enid602 Aug 2018 #50
Oh snap! PatSeg Aug 2018 #4
Historically rooted Geechie Aug 2018 #5
True, right off the bat Woodrow Wilson comes to mind. The Liberal Lion Aug 2018 #7
Woodrow Wilson comes to mind Sedona Aug 2018 #8
I'm gonna guess that no Trump voter was around when Jackson ran louis c Aug 2018 #11
Point taken. Add to that Geechie Aug 2018 #55
Yes!!! Trump likes to take pictures with Jackson in the background ArizonaLib Aug 2018 #21
This is spot on. The Liberal Lion Aug 2018 #6
They know where they stand, but they keep it to themselves, so I don't know. louis c Aug 2018 #12
When we spend a lot of time following politics and Mr.Bill Aug 2018 #14
On top of that 2naSalit Aug 2018 #27
Exactly right. We're so used to watching and reading that we forget most dont do that. 7962 Aug 2018 #34
Here is my take... CynicalAtheist Aug 2018 #9
"We"? mac56 Aug 2018 #25
That is a good analogy. Especially if the team is Auburn or Miami. 7962 Aug 2018 #35
He was kicked off the team at Florida, not UGA MaryMagdaline Aug 2018 #52
I was referring to Nick Marshall, but his year they actually lost the championship game 7962 Aug 2018 #65
Sorry thought you meant cam newton MaryMagdaline Aug 2018 #67
Maybe matt819 Aug 2018 #10
Yes! "They don't have to pretend anymore." Kind of Blue Aug 2018 #30
He embodies and promotes white dominance in a time of cultural change. IluvPitties Aug 2018 #13
That is a perfect description mainstreetonce Aug 2018 #16
Yes, old scared white people who want the America of their youth Awsi Dooger Aug 2018 #26
And 2naSalit Aug 2018 #29
Plain, simple and 100% true. mountain grammy Aug 2018 #32
You must be a calming presence atThanksgiving... johnnyplankton Aug 2018 #15
One difference: Catholics and African-Americans weren't being played for fools. JustABozoOnThisBus Aug 2018 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author louis c Aug 2018 #20
They wouldn't see the word "racist" as bad lunatica Aug 2018 #18
In a nutshell: He hates the same people they do. Raster Aug 2018 #19
One difference, and it's a biggie. bluescribbler Aug 2018 #22
yeah, todays racists remember Wilson. sure. TeamPooka Aug 2018 #39
They're singing the same songs, and wearing the same costumes n/t Mopar151 Aug 2018 #68
cant argue with that. TeamPooka Aug 2018 #70
Well played, would love to try this approach on my family! Canoe52 Aug 2018 #23
You get to win when your'e good. That/s why people got excited over Crutchez_CuiBono Aug 2018 #24
Nicely done. zentrum Aug 2018 #28
Now that's a thought provoking take on things nt iluvtennis Aug 2018 #31
I would insert a word into your last line Persondem Aug 2018 #33
I would add ginnyinWI Aug 2018 #53
+1. You are correct. Anger is very much a part of trumper psyche. nt Persondem Aug 2018 #62
All I hear from my Trump loving friends and family is.... onlyadream Aug 2018 #36
Well done. Your new explanation is awesome. Captain Stern Aug 2018 #37
This is exactly it BumRushDaShow Aug 2018 #38
OMG louisc you have blown this subject to smithereens! bucolic_frolic Aug 2018 #40
KR NT ProudProgressiveNow Aug 2018 #41
if you want to know why they love trump IAMSPARTICUS Aug 2018 #42
They Stand By Him for the Same REason THey Voted for HIm in the First Place JI7 Aug 2018 #43
True, although LBJ is misquoted. There were no Republicans in the solid south then, only Dixiecrats. Marcuse Aug 2018 #44
"True, although LBJ is misquoted. There were no Republicans in the solid south then" BumRushDaShow Aug 2018 #45
Thanks BRDS. I meant that the text on the image I posted inferred that LBJ was targeting Marcuse Aug 2018 #57
Looking at your map BumRushDaShow Aug 2018 #58
WJ Cash "Mind of the South" jcgoldie Aug 2018 #48
Yes and more... jimlup Aug 2018 #46
I'm afraid that doesn't stand up. Some very intelligent thinkers, theoreticians, scientists, and Nitram Aug 2018 #51
Niels Bohr of Bohr's constant. Marcuse Aug 2018 #56
I was specifically referring to Trump supporters jimlup Aug 2018 #63
As Spock would say. "That's not logical." Nitram Aug 2018 #64
Yes and you are still missing my point jimlup Aug 2018 #66
K & R SunSeeker Aug 2018 #47
I think there might also be the coward's reluctance to admit s/he was wrong. Nitram Aug 2018 #49
Excellent. Well done. Nt PCIntern Aug 2018 #60
good barbtries Aug 2018 #61
fellings? Demonaut Aug 2018 #69
Van Jones had it right - Whitelash Algernon Moncrieff Aug 2018 #71

Hayduke Bomgarte

(1,965 posts)
1. The difference is neither the
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:17 PM
Aug 2018

African Americans nor the Catholics were a mob of drooling cretins. Drumpfer's are.

DallasNE

(7,403 posts)
54. Correct
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 09:57 AM
Aug 2018

Besides, those were identifiable classes of people. What we have today is a cult leader and his followers. And how do you deprogram 60 million people that will resist all efforts.

Geechie

(865 posts)
5. Historically rooted
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:28 PM
Aug 2018

Do you recall anything about Andrew Jackson? Just the most glaring example, but there have been others since.

 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
11. I'm gonna guess that no Trump voter was around when Jackson ran
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:42 PM
Aug 2018

and I'm using "poetic license" to make my point. I'm sure there were plenty of racists that served as President. Woodrow Wilson, Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan, just to name a few.

But none in the lifetime of Trump voters, so that's how the point is made.

Geechie

(865 posts)
55. Point taken. Add to that
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 10:15 AM
Aug 2018

the high probability that if you asked most Trump voters to name a dozen past US presidents, they probably wouldn't be able to!

ArizonaLib

(1,242 posts)
21. Yes!!! Trump likes to take pictures with Jackson in the background
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:54 PM
Aug 2018

Jackson defied the Supreme Court when they told him he couldn't march the Native Americans to Oklahoma, a move necessary for the plantation system in the south to flourish.

You are good to remind people about Andrew Jackson!

The Liberal Lion

(1,414 posts)
6. This is spot on.
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:30 PM
Aug 2018

But what I don't understand is people who don't know where they stand. How can someone not know where they stand? My attitude is those who are silent are compliant.

 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
12. They know where they stand, but they keep it to themselves, so I don't know.
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:43 PM
Aug 2018

My OP says "they are quiet, so YOU don't know where they stand.

Mr.Bill

(24,315 posts)
14. When we spend a lot of time following politics and
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:45 PM
Aug 2018

participating in forums like this one it is very to lose sight of the fact that there are many people, even a majority that don't really know that much about politics or candidates. Perfectly intelligent and decent people who are just ignorant about political matters. The most common reasons I hear from Trump voters as to why they voted for him is "He's going to shake things up" or "We need a businessman to run the country". And that is their complete depth of thought about their vote.

My stepdaughter has a masters degree in clinical nursing and is a hospital administrator. She is one of the most intelligent people I have ever met, but she leads a busy business life and doesn't watch MSNBC ten hours a day like I do. She didn't vote for Trump, but if you tell her the Russians hijacked the election, she just laughs. I also have to keep reminding myself that there are about two generations of voters that weren't even alive when I realized that Donald Trump was a slimy con man.


I have met many who genuinely think that Trump is the richest and therefore smartest businessman who ever lived. It's just plain ignorance.

2naSalit

(86,764 posts)
27. On top of that
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 04:38 PM
Aug 2018

some religious groups thin that the richer you are the holier you are, like the one mittens and orin hatch belong to.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
34. Exactly right. We're so used to watching and reading that we forget most dont do that.
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 05:10 PM
Aug 2018

Ive heard many times that bad news is only bad if it happens a few weeks before an election, because thats when so many voters START paying attention

CynicalAtheist

(3 posts)
9. Here is my take...
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:37 PM
Aug 2018

Think of Dems vs Repubs like a sports team, your QB is a wife-beater, alcoholic & goes around kicking dogs and it doesn't matter because this is the guy that will finally take your team to the championship this year and the next.

They had to see 8 years of Obama bumper stickers, t-shirts and seeing him on TV so now it is "our" turn so now we get to wear our MAGA hats to the office like you wore your "Yes We Can" t-shirts at work.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
35. That is a good analogy. Especially if the team is Auburn or Miami.
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 05:12 PM
Aug 2018

Auburn won a national championship with a QB that was kicked off the team at UGA for stealing. They gladly take in "bad guys" if they've got game. Its the power of the Alumni.

MaryMagdaline

(6,856 posts)
52. He was kicked off the team at Florida, not UGA
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 08:54 AM
Aug 2018

and why the Miami slam? It was FSU who backed the rapist quarterback, not Miami

Otherwise, good point. Steelers have one of the greatest family owned franchises and even they backed Roethlisberger, a twice-accused rapist.


Trumpsters have their Supreme Court picks. That's like winning the Super Bowl for the remainder of their lives.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
65. I was referring to Nick Marshall, but his year they actually lost the championship game
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 09:14 PM
Aug 2018

There are so many to choose from at Auburn, its hard to keep track!!!

As for Miami, their football program is considered one of top scandalous athletic programs in the country, according to Bleacher Report

matt819

(10,749 posts)
10. Maybe
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:38 PM
Aug 2018

But regardless of what they say, these people are not for anything. They just don't want people who are not like them - white - getting stuff. All stuff that can be got must be got by white people. Black, brown, and other people don't deserve stuff. And it's their own fault.

And it's not that only Christians should get stuff. Black people and Hispanic people can be Christians, but they can't get stuff that should rightly go to white people. And bad shit that happens to non-white people is their own damn fault.

They are well beyond the "I have friends that are fill in the blank. . . " They don't have to pretend anymore. They don't have friends that are non-white and they don't give a fuck.

Etc. etc.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
26. Yes, old scared white people who want the America of their youth
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 04:15 PM
Aug 2018

And their children who were taught the same priorities.

I dated some girls in college who were right wingers. I remained friends with two of them after they married and had children. For experimental purposes I googled those children a few weeks ago. They are now in their late teens to late 20s so I knew they would have social media. And sure enough, they are wing nuts. One kid had tens of thousands of followers on twitter because he is a Trump wacko who retweets everything that is pro Trump or anti-liberal. His twitter photo is himself decked out head to toe in Trump gear and going crazy at a 2016 Trump rally in Texas.

That is what we are dealing with.

And I'm glad I didn't marry them.

2naSalit

(86,764 posts)
29. And
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 04:41 PM
Aug 2018

the kocktopus is getting impatient 'cause their utopia is supposed to materialize before those old fuckers die.

mountain grammy

(26,644 posts)
32. Plain, simple and 100% true.
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 04:44 PM
Aug 2018

I would add "male" and "heterosexual" to the white dominance. Possibly even "Christian."

johnnyplankton

(352 posts)
15. You must be a calming presence atThanksgiving...
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:48 PM
Aug 2018

Nothing like starting a discussion with an insult. What could possibly go wrong?

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,362 posts)
17. One difference: Catholics and African-Americans weren't being played for fools.
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:49 PM
Aug 2018

Trump knows that his supporters are fools. His strategy as demagogue is to play back their own bigotry. They see a kindred spirit, the trusting lambs.

Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #17)

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
18. They wouldn't see the word "racist" as bad
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:51 PM
Aug 2018

So they would probably agree with you wholeheartedly and embrace you in gratitude!

bluescribbler

(2,120 posts)
22. One difference, and it's a biggie.
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:54 PM
Aug 2018

JFK and BHO were the first of their kinds. tRump is not the first racist bigot to become President. Woodrow Wilson came before him, and I suspect that many antebellum Presidents were, as well.

Crutchez_CuiBono

(7,725 posts)
24. You get to win when your'e good. That/s why people got excited over
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:59 PM
Aug 2018

Kennedy and Obama. When you are good, good things happen to you, sort of thing. You don't just "get your turn" regardless of who you are. That's not how it works.

Persondem

(1,936 posts)
33. I would insert a word into your last line
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 04:52 PM
Aug 2018

" ... then you can understand that an ignorant, racist-bigot would have the same fellings (sic) now that one of their own is President."

Of course many other descriptors could be added as well, that word sums up him and his followers rather well.

ginnyinWI

(17,276 posts)
53. I would add
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 09:45 AM
Aug 2018

Angry. Angry that a black man became President. Angry that a white woman was running for the office.

Anger is close to fear for many. Fear of change, fear of losing, "something" but not sure what it is. What it is is the feeling that they are riding on top of the heap and, whatever they haven't accomplished in life, or whatever they don't have, at least they have their position on the top of the heap.

Actually, doesn't racism and bigotry also go back to fear?

I am a white woman but I don't need to be above anyone else to feel worthwhile. I have what I have done with my life, which includes a college education. I don't need to fall back on the color of my skin!

I have relatives, though, who do. They chose to ride that horse called Trump in the last election in order to get back what they "lost".

onlyadream

(2,167 posts)
36. All I hear from my Trump loving friends and family is....
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 05:14 PM
Aug 2018

He’s doing everything he said he would!

Like that’s a good thing...

Captain Stern

(2,201 posts)
37. Well done. Your new explanation is awesome.
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 05:20 PM
Aug 2018

You didn't even need to tell us that you have a very smooth tone, and that you're "the most historically rooted person in the group". It's very obvious. You did great! And it's not just me that says that. This guy does too.........and,yeah, it's Hercules

BumRushDaShow

(129,355 posts)
38. This is exactly it
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 05:28 PM
Aug 2018

and has always been my thought.

People might recall that in the past, as far back as Nixon - Nixon and the GOP courting the "dixiecrats".... through Raygun manufacturing and courting the "Moral Majority", and the Bushes embracing "The Angry White Male™" - all during the Presidential primaries. Once they got elected however, all were shamed into throwing those groups under the bus and suppressing them.

But fast-forward to 2016 and a candidate who not only courted all of the above groups, but some of the most odious and obnoxious RW scum who were rarely "spoken to". And as he did this, he literally looked like them, acted like them, talked like them, thought like them, and was as hypocritical as they were and didn't care if he was a hypocrite because he was "In Charge™" and "Told It Like It Was™".

And key here is that he has NOT thrown them under the bus like his GOP predecessors. And he has been bolstered by the fact that his party has refused to do so either (while apparently backed by wealthy RW loons and a foreign country to underscore the lifeline).

bucolic_frolic

(43,257 posts)
40. OMG louisc you have blown this subject to smithereens!
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 09:23 PM
Aug 2018

Pride. They are reflecting Trump's pride in their own pride. So simple, yet so elusive, you have exposed it for all to see, thanks!!

IAMSPARTICUS

(17 posts)
42. if you want to know why they love trump
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 12:56 AM
Aug 2018

just watch commercials on tv. they see black, brown, asian, gay people in disproportionate numbers and see their culture being lost. i've personally heard such comments. "why is the white guy the stupid one?" spike lee addresses this point in blackkklansman.

JI7

(89,261 posts)
43. They Stand By Him for the Same REason THey Voted for HIm in the First Place
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 12:59 AM
Aug 2018

he is a bigot and has never stopped being one.

Marcuse

(7,504 posts)
44. True, although LBJ is misquoted. There were no Republicans in the solid south then, only Dixiecrats.
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 01:57 AM
Aug 2018

BumRushDaShow

(129,355 posts)
45. "True, although LBJ is misquoted. There were no Republicans in the solid south then"
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 06:25 AM
Aug 2018

Oh yeah there were -

1964 Presidential election -



What tipped the GOP numbers over the hump to win the national majority in 1968 after losing in 1964, were the dixiecrats, but the white southern GOP were already there - stoked into action by the Goldwater exhortation about "states rights", which eventually evolved into the "southern strategy" (PDF).

<...>

The big change came in 1964 with Barry Goldwater and ''states' rights,'' a phrase and philosophy widely seen as anti-black and opposed by President Lyndon B. Johnson, the godfather of voting rights for blacks. In that Presidential election and the seven after, no Republican gained more than 15 percent of the black vote.

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/09/19/us/gop-tries-hard-to-win-black-votes-but-recent-history-works-against-it.html


As a note - the oft-cited quote came from Bill Moyers, who served in several positions under Johnson including as Press Secretary. He penned an OpEd in the WP 30 years ago that said in part -

WHAT A REAL PRESIDENT WAS LIKE
By Bill D. Moyers
November 13, 1988

WHILE Lyndon Baines Johnson was a man of time and place, he felt the bitter paradox of both. I was a young man on his staff in 1960 when he gave me a vivid account of that southern schizophrenia he understood and feared. We were in Tennessee. During the motorcade, he spotted some ugly racial epithets scrawled on signs. Late that night in the hotel, when the local dignitaries had finished the last bottles of bourbon and branch water and departed, he started talking about those signs. "I'll tell you what's at the bottom of it," he said. "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

Some years later when Johnson was president, there was a press conference in the East Room. A reporter unexpectedly asked the president how he could explain his sudden passion for civil rights when he had never shown much enthusiasm for the cause. The question hung in the air. I could almost hear his silent cursing of a press secretary who had not anticipated this one. But then he relaxed, and from an instinct no assistant could brief -- one seasoned in the double life from which he was delivered and hoped to deliver others -- he said in effect: Most of us don't have a second chance to correct the mistakes of our youth. I do and I am. That evening, sitting in the White House, discussing the question with friends and staff, he gestured broadly and said, "Eisenhower used to tell me that this place was a prison. I never felt freer."

For weeks in 1964, the president carried in his pocket the summary of a Census Bureau report showing that the lifetime earnings of an average black college graduate were lower than that of a white man with an eighth-grade education. And when The New York Times in November 1964 reported racial segregation to be increasing instead of disappearing, he took his felt-tip pen and scribbled across it "shame, shame, shame," and sent it to Everett Dirksen, the Republican leader in the Senate.

I have a hard time explaining to our two sons and daughter -- now in their twenties -- that when they were little, America was still deeply segregated. The White House press corps, housed in Austin when the president was on vacation in Texas, would often go to the faculty club at the University of Texas, which was still off-limits to blacks in 1964. I remember the night it changed.

More: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1988/11/13/what-a-real-president-was-like/d483c1be-d0da-43b7-bde6-04e10106ff6c/?utm_term=.d184a2dd52d4

Marcuse

(7,504 posts)
57. Thanks BRDS. I meant that the text on the image I posted inferred that LBJ was targeting
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 11:27 AM
Aug 2018

“Republicans” specifically, rather than low white men in general. I should have said there were then relatively fewer Republicans in the solid south when Moyers quoted LBJ instead of none.




BumRushDaShow

(129,355 posts)
58. Looking at your map
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 11:53 AM
Aug 2018

I'm seeing that PA had the same number of electoral votes as CA in 1960. Now we have a bit more than 1/3rd (as of the 2010 census, CA had 55 and PA had 20).

jcgoldie

(11,638 posts)
48. WJ Cash "Mind of the South"
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 07:30 AM
Aug 2018

The perception of white privilege unfortunately is not just a southern phenomenon.

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
46. Yes and more...
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 06:33 AM
Aug 2018

I'm more and more convinced that it is directly correlated with intelligence as well as bigotry.

Nitram

(22,846 posts)
51. I'm afraid that doesn't stand up. Some very intelligent thinkers, theoreticians, scientists, and
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 08:39 AM
Aug 2018

artists have been racist, anti-Semitic or otherwise bigoted. Two examples: James Watson (Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine as co-discoverer of the structure of DNA) and William Shockley (Nobel Prize in Physics for researches on semiconductors and the discovery of the transistor effect),

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
63. I was specifically referring to Trump supporters
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 04:50 PM
Aug 2018

So no, I'm not claiming a correlation between intelligence and bigotry. Simply a correlation between intelligence and support for the Orange Clown thingy that the stupid people elected as POTUS.

Nitram

(22,846 posts)
64. As Spock would say. "That's not logical."
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 09:10 PM
Aug 2018

You can't single out Trump supporters with a blanket statement about IQ and racism. Intelligent people have succumbed to racism and bigotry like everyone else. It exists at an emotional level, not an intellectual one.

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
66. Yes and you are still missing my point
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 09:17 PM
Aug 2018

which is that Trump voters and lower intelligence or correlated despite bigotry.

barbtries

(28,810 posts)
61. good
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 01:00 PM
Aug 2018

but you could go on, how misogynists, narcissists, psychopaths, and authoritarians are finally getting their day. not to mention people who always thought Russia did it better than the USA....

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
71. Van Jones had it right - Whitelash
Thu Aug 30, 2018, 02:51 AM
Aug 2018

Aided and abetted by Russians, white America decided they'd had enough of BLM, and that illegal immigrants and not standing for a song were further signs the nation was going to Hell. A majority of white women decided it was more important to stand up for the white privilege than to defend women's rights.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»My new explanation on why...