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(3,496 posts)Power
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)Moved the goal post or changes rules.
manor321
(3,344 posts)Republican voters showed up at the polls to take the White House and the Senate. This is what they get to do. This is how it works.
People need to show up and actually vote for us to get what we want.
Democrats cannot stop the hearings and can't stop the vote.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Crutchez_CuiBono
(7,725 posts)Cheating isnt winning...they cheated so hard, and have been since 2000. Don't lecture DUers about what we did wrong on top of it.
Anon-C
(3,430 posts)LenaBaby61
(6,974 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Democrats didn't come out to vote in 2010 and 2014 and allowed the Senate to turn Republican.
I remember it well. Something about "teaching Obama a lesson.""
fallout87
(819 posts)Would love to send a link over to a few family members who dont believe it's true.
Crutchez_CuiBono
(7,725 posts)fallout87
(819 posts)since you appear to know... why not just provide a link?
john657
(1,058 posts)it's all speculation at this point.
fallout87
(819 posts)But we have posters here claiming so, without any evidence. We know the other side loves to peddle fake news, but we are better than that and it's what separates us.
john657
(1,058 posts)the proof, they usually don't answer or tell you to google yourself.
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)john657
(1,058 posts)that it happened.
Some people love to push that meme despite there being zero proof, so far, it happened.
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)Grasswire2
(13,568 posts)...AND Russians ran interference for him.
They have no mandate. They cannot legitimately claim to be doing the will of the people.
The tyranny of this minority must be neutralized or all is lost. ALL is LOST.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)more votes than the scum sitting in the White House. I call that showing up.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)And let the Senate turn Republican.
I don't know why folks are now surprised or pissed - elections do indeed have consequences.
FSogol
(45,476 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)This is the ugly truth that needs to be said.
Gothmog
(145,130 posts)pnwmom
(108,976 posts)called DINO's-- which were the only kind we could get elected in red states. With their losses, we lost our Senate majority.
We used to be smarter about this, but the purists killed our majority.
Crutchez_CuiBono
(7,725 posts).............................................
..................................
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)Manchin, according to Progressive Punch, takes the progressive position about 56% of the time -- which sounds terrible till you realize that Susan Collins, the most "moderate" member of the GOP Senate, only votes with progressives 26% of the time. And the 2nd most "moderate" GOP, Dean Heller, only votes with progressives 13% of the time.
So unless we want to have a person like Manchin replaced with someone like Susan Collins or Dean Heller, we should be supporting him as much as any Democrat from a blue state.
http://www.progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate
Bluepinky
(2,268 posts)And they may be gearing up to vote for Kavanaugh. Dont know whats so great about them. Votes for Supreme Court appointments are among the most important, and if they cant vote with their party, it would be better to get someone who will.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)the 3 Democrats to vote for him, he strengthened their hand in their own states, while not changing the outcome.
As soon as the GOP had 51 votes, they won. Our 3 votes gave them 54, changing NOTHING.
(This is a tactic that has been around as long as there's been a Congress. If we let the DINO's vote with the R's on some votes where we would have lost anyway, we lose nothing. And the DINO, meanwhile, gets some votes that show he's not a knee-jerk liberal.)
Bluepinky
(2,268 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Manchin reps a pretty conservative area, I dont agree with the voters there but I also think you cant get someone if love elected there.
Literally their votes changed nothing at all.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)And that particular vote changed nothing.
The most important thing is that we need even more Joe Manchins from the red states to get a majority back.
john657
(1,058 posts)I thought that they were supposed to represent the people of their state, and Joe Manchin is in a pretty red state.
Bradshaw3
(7,513 posts)Seems pretty obvious from a strategic viewpoint but it needs to be said.
Kilgore
(1,733 posts)Kaleva
(36,294 posts)dsc
(52,155 posts)that is why.
Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)My old nemesis, gravity, has a similar winning streak.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)Position on the highest court in the land who will ultimately sit in judgement of his legitimacy. Th clowns will rule that dump is above the law and then it wont matter how much power Dems get because the court will overturn EVERYTHING weve made progress on for the last 100 years.
at140
(6,110 posts)President Clinton nominated justice Breyer during Starr investigation and the senate confirmed him.
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)Election or legitimacy. We have never been here before.
at140
(6,110 posts)is considered perjury, which is a serious crime. Perjury makes no distinction if it was lying about Russia collusion or a blow job. If I recall correctly, it was lying in court about the Paula Jones lawsuit. I am going by only memory.
Crutchez_CuiBono
(7,725 posts)Clinton was the 2nd best president in my lifetime I couldn't disagree MORE with your whole paradigm...starting at the foundation. ALL the investigations were political kneecapping. don has/is destroying our country. BIG difference. History has shown your ideas are misguided about President Clinton. (Bill, not Hillary)
New here?
at140
(6,110 posts)The stock market was great and the economy was great during Bill Clinton.
Anyways, there is a majority of repugs in senate, and they might even snatch a few dems to vote for Kavanaugh. We gotta choose fights we can win. Best option right now is to win the November elections coming up.
john657
(1,058 posts)Crutchez_CuiBono
(7,725 posts)bronxiteforever
(9,287 posts)pnwmom
(108,976 posts)unless it's changed -- and there's a long involved process for that, too.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Freethinker65
(10,009 posts)Distruction of individual rights for money and power given to them by the wealthy ruling class is what the GOP live for.
bottomofthehill
(8,329 posts)And when people stay home over going To the polls over a purity test, this is what we get. Mrs Clinton would not have made these decisions. For all the Bernie Bro, Susan Sarandon style bullshit, we now have this insanity.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Crutchez_CuiBono
(7,725 posts)it's figured out how and why and what the implications are? It's THE biggest irreparable harm to this country since the civil war. Why does an entire nation have to pay for the actions of a few? How is it Joe Americans fault? The guy who goes to work, votes etc? these crisp retorts about the reasons why are are null and void if the 51 figure or whatever is as a result of thrown elections right down the ballot. So...all of you voter lecturers can all just take a day off in my mind. Blaming the victim in any other scenario is appalling...until it comes to addressing the voting and the corruption in the Land of the Free. Happy Holidays everyone. Turning my phone off. Love Peace and elbow grease.
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)Bradshaw3
(7,513 posts)Not just complaining about what's going on, or not wanting to hear about why we are here, but what practical solutions do you propose - right now - that would change this? And resorting to the "courts should do this" doesn't qualify as a practical solution since conservatives also control the courts.
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)Im sorry but anything youve got to say about the law or the constitution doesnt fit here. The republicans do not give a fuck about the constitution. We need massive protests. People dont seem to realize what the guy getting on thhim court means for this country.
Bradshaw3
(7,513 posts)I think millions of people, including on here and in Congress, do realize what they are getting. They are fighting it and that may include protests and they already are all over tv making the case.
And it doesn't matter what I say about the constitution, it matters what the people in charge say. And that fits here much more than screaming and mass protests that will be ignored by the repubs in charge even more than they ignore the constitution.
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)You want to keep listening to republicans be my guest. We will keep going down the road of destruction. I guess we we will see how that works for us. Republicans do not follow the law or constitution so pretending they do is a pointless argument.
Bradshaw3
(7,513 posts)Quote where I wrote that we should "listen to repubs." You can't. I asked you for concrete ways to solve the problem and your answer was to make up something. That doesn't prove your case - it shows you don't really have one, which was obvious throughout the thread.
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)Good day.
Bradshaw3
(7,513 posts)Either there is a problem with reading comprehension on your part or you deliberately make up things about other DU posters. Instead of using falsehoods to attack DU posters, one route is to come up with solid arguments before you post. With all that's going on it's understandable people want to rant but using these kinds of tactics of attacking fellow Democrats doesn't make your point. As I said, your "point" about screaming on tv and mass protests aren't going to stop the Supreme Court nominee. There are ways to fight it but you haven't come up with any.
I asked you to come up with practical ways to fight it and you can't. You just attack fellow DUers using falsehoods.
bearsfootball516
(6,377 posts)Bradshaw3
(7,513 posts)I understand why people are emotional; with repubs in control of two/thirds of the government and a lying idiotic POS in charge of the other and doing horrendous things makes people angry. But you don't change things by denying reality and lashing out at those who are on your side.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)No, it's not. It's just screaming on tv.
And not attending the hearing just means he won't have to answer any difficult questions.
People should have been thinking of this possibility years ago, especially in 2010 and 2014, when they were busy trying to "teach Obama a lesson" because he didn't give them a pony. Some of us tried to warn people about this but were met with cries of "DINO!!!" "The enemy you know is better than the enemy you don't!" "Pragmatism sucks!" blah blah blah
Grasswire2
(13,568 posts)....prior to any major appointments.
One party went rogue and acted against the intention of the Constitution and the Rule of Law.
That party should not be profiting from the fruits of the assault.
john657
(1,058 posts)said it was illegitimate?
Did I miss that happening?
onenote
(42,694 posts)that alleged Obama was an illegitimate president and that were, for all intents and purposes, universally dismissed by the courts on the grounds that the plaintiffs lacked standing and the court lacked jurisdiction.
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)I have yet to see Hillary call it illegitimate. Have you?
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)By a 2:1 margin.
Depending on which stats you use in the studies mentioned either 94% or 88% of Sanders primary voters voted for the nominee, Hillary. Versus only 76% of Hillary voters who voted for Senator Obama in 2008. Relative to recent elections the number of Sanders voters who voted for the nominee when their candidate lost was high.
The study concludes that these Sanders - tRump voters were not Democrats to begin with and were never going to vote for Hillary
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/
We got our asses kicked by trump for a myriad of reasons in states that Democrat should not have lost.
Voter turnout was the lowest in 20 years.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/11/10/why-did-trump-win-in-part-because-voter-turnout-plunged/
Bluepinky
(2,268 posts)and reviewed? I dont hear the Democratic Senators making a lot of noise about this. Cant they refuse to attend the hearing until said documents are obtained? Can they filibuster?
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)Bluepinky
(2,268 posts)If Senators arent allowed to review requested documents, they are unable to advise. Withholding requested documents should be the basis of a lawsuit.
Another option: if no Democrats attended the hearing, would they legally be able to hold it?
TexasTowelie
(112,125 posts)there is nothing that Democrats can do to stop the hearing. As long as there are 49 Republican senators and the 1
Democrat who would make the motion to check that a quorum of senators are available then the hearing continues. They could delay the hearing for a bit, but that tactic would only work once since the Republicans would quickly assemble all of their senators to proceed with the hearing.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)legall speaking.
If no Democrats attended but a quorum was present, they could still legally hold it.
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)You've already backtracked when it was pointed out that if the under investigation standard would have blocked Breyer. You don't seem to have actually thought through what you actually want.
Here's a hint, we're outnumbered in the Senate and the filibuster was removed for judges, including the Supreme Court. So draw the map for how to block the nomination.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Bitching about illegitimate president does not count cause it will stop nothing.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)http://time.com/5382872/democrats-cant-stop-brett-kavanaugh-supreme-court/
https://www.businessinsider.com/r-democrats-slam-white-house-for-withholding-documents-on-supreme-court-nominee-2018-9
onenote
(42,694 posts)for the same reasons: lack of standing and lack of jurisdiction
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)And the purists never figured out that we can't have a Senate majority without some DINO's, because the Senate is weighted heavily toward low population, rural states.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)This is what happens when the Sarandons of the world get their way by voting "third party" or not voting at all. It will be a hard lesson learned that will last for GENERATIONS. I'll certainly be dead before the horrors we're living (and the horrors that await us) can be reversed.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)pnwmom
(108,976 posts)Bluepinky
(2,268 posts)An illegitimate, stolen Presidency is about foreign interference in our elections.
Skip the lectures.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Bluepinky
(2,268 posts)We dont need lecturing, at least I dont. I dont want to hear about party purity during the last election, I agree with you on that. I want to know what we can do to stop this illegitimate Republican steamroller thats destroying everything in its path.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)I also need to spend more time acting on ways to create roadblocks for all Republicans, the Party of Betrayal
brer cat
(24,559 posts)can help keep us from repeating it. We don't need a splintered party going after these republicans. If we elect, as we always do, some DINOs, some less than pure from the standpoint of some members, so be it if it gets us a majority. Stopping the wholesale destruction of our country should be priority #1 for everyone.
Keep it up, NJ!
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)The archived threads make for interesting reading.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... a dose of reality.
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)someone like Trump is president may have caused several to change their tune.
People evolve over time. A few of Hillary's strongest supporters here today used to attack her for being "hysterical" and make fun of her "cackle" back in 2008.
lastlib
(23,213 posts)Or whined about ideological purity when they should've been voting to stop GOPhers from getting elected.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)Vinca
(50,261 posts)Harry Reid of all people changed Senate rules so they can push whoever they want through with a simple majority. We're screwed and I can't think of much Democrats can do about it. Even if we win the House and Senate in November, Gorsuch and this character will be on the Supreme Court for life. I like Robert Reich's idea that if the election is proved to have been stolen, Trump's presidency and everything he's done should be annulled. Unfortunately, there's nothing in law to provide for it.
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)Bluepinky
(2,268 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Yes, the Dems changed the rules to get lower court judges through - after Democratic voters demand they DO something and they got tired of the Republican majority blocking every single one of Obama's circuit and district court judges. But they didn't take away the Supreme Court filibuster. McConnell and the Republicans did that all on their own.
And, although the Republicans and the media love to blame the Dems for "opening the door," to this, don't be fooled. Even if the Democrats had never changed the rule on lower court judges, the Republicans would have gotten rid of the filibuster when they got back in power, regardless what the Democrats had done previously.
Mike Nelson
(9,951 posts)
to decide.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)And "purity testing".
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)It's like some "grown-up" approach...which has no appeal to me, a rabid activist. Like asking questions is gonna change a single vote.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)It's not a "grown up approach." It's the right one.
Among other things, they can pin him down, hold his feet to the fire, get him to say things on the record. It's important for the public to hear him answer difficult questions and not just see him knocking softballs out of the park. And, just as important, he could very likely perjure himself, which could be addressed when the Democrats eventually take back the House and Senate. Supreme Court justices can be impeached and removed from the bench ...
We don't know if asking questions is going to change a vote but we do know that NOT asking any questions won't change a thing.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Argument...but I still think they are acquiescing. Sure they will get him to slip up...but it doesn't matter...he will still get in for life. We need drastic out-of-the-box emergency type tactics..or generations will be stuck with him.
john657
(1,058 posts)but what out of the box emergency tactics?
At this point in time, Senate Democrats have no procedural moves they can make to block Kavanaugh's confirmation.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)What exactly do you propose the Dems do?
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Kavanaugh a free ride.
Staying in the hearing, asking tough questions, calling out Grassley and the other Republicans isn't "playing along." It's not only their job, it's what they need to do now to bring attention to what's going on. And they've done a great job so far this morning.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)That's all there is to it. Peace
Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)They don't touch these kind of things with a ten foot pole when the GOP is running the show.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Why?
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)We lost Congress in a purely arithmetical sense, but the principle that those elected will represent voters instead of dollars is long gone.
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)From monied interests who have completely destroyed this country.
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)I grew up in the ERA(Equal Rights Amendment) era...how did that work out?
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)john657
(1,058 posts)and 2020.
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Gothmog
(145,130 posts)Gothmog
(145,130 posts)dlk
(11,552 posts)AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)and frankly we aren't a democracy... at least at the Federal Level.
still_one
(92,138 posts)wouldn't vote for the Democratic nominee in in 2016 by either voting third party or not voting
Grasswire2
(13,568 posts)1. A major leak of something so shocking as to stun the nation.
2. The people BORK him. Masses of people. Massive demonstrations. Soon. We need to provide cover for those wobbly Dems.
john657
(1,058 posts)1. Highly unlikely, at this stage, anything massively scandalous will come out, and,
2. Massive demonstrations isn't going to stop the pubs from confirming Kavanaugh.
Grasswire2
(13,568 posts)..a woman's right to choose and Dems SUPPORTED the rule of law and DEMS stand with all those issues that will affect the lives of millennials.
Capitulating quietly, with a little groaning is SPINELESS and UNAMERICAN.
Do we need the French to teach us how to do this?
Geez.
Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #124)
john657 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Grasswire2
(13,568 posts)Makes no sense.
john657
(1,058 posts)I'll delete my post.