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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPosting this for anyone who argued Zina Bash was an innocent victim on Tuesday
Making the white supremacist gesture once may have been a clueless mistake.
But twice? Even after it was called out and received a lot of attention?
I'm posting this for anyone who argued Zina Bash was an innocent victim on Tuesday because regardless of her intention THEN, this shows who she really is NOW
VIDEO:
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Cha
(319,072 posts)saw it. I hope no one was sticking up for Zina besides Mr Bash and his "random" hand gestures defense.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,604 posts)her extreme right, just before she flashed the white power signal. Who was it? Bash was not a lone actor. She conspired with at least one other person.
Cha
(319,072 posts)It's "cue" by the by. 
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I just don't think there's nearly enough evidence to run with really serious accusations like this, "even" for the wife of someone involved in extreme cruelty to refugee parents and children.
Until almost yesterday the okay sign was something we all grew up with over several decades. Those whose personal cultures don't include exposure to the behaviors of 4chan types won't even know about a supposed new meaning. Even with her exposure to that culture, she lives and works in a very sophisticated, high-functioning DC environment and really would have to be more dysfunctional than Trump, more out of control than Alex Jones, to be flashing white supremacy signs to the nation at a time like this.
4chan has to be living for the way left-leaning Twitter jumped on the "Zina Bash is a white supremacist" bandwagon.
Link to tweet
@abbyohlheiser, on attorney Zina Bash allegedly showing an alt-right hand symbol at a hearing for Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh. That meaning of the gesture, which signals “OK,” is a hoax started on the website 4chan. Nonetheless, some accused Bash of being a white supremacist.
Kurt Eichenwald
✔
@kurteichenwald
Just because lunacy has become accepted part of political discourse does not mean you have to join it. The idea that zina Bash used the three percenter handsign while sitting behind Kavanaugh is ridiculous.
11:10 PM - Sep 4, 2018
1,468
829 people are talking about this
https://www.washingtonpost.com/express/2018/09/05/trending-sorry-zina-bash-twitter-didnt-do-its-homework-liberal-hoaxes/?utm_term=.cc1754b4f9d0
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Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Tommy_Carcetti
(44,498 posts)Honest question. Is there video of this from a reputable source?
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(44,498 posts)pazzyanne
(6,759 posts)I saw her do this on both days. It was called to her attention the first day and she was a really good girl for a couple days, and then repeated this hand signal. Guilty as charged. If confirmed, we will then have a Natzi on the Supreme Court! Nice, huh.
CottonBear
(21,615 posts)I am quite sure that is a calculated wardrobe choice.
But, WTF? How can a Jewish- Mexican woman be a deplorable, anti-woman, white power, neo-Nazi?
lunasun
(21,646 posts)not connected but are voting women (the majority
of white went trump ) or minorities who still support Trump -what's in thier head??
atreides1
(16,799 posts)Stephen Miller!!!!
Zina is a conservative, her ethnicity means nothing, she got her place at the table and no one else counts!!!!
She's kind of like the Uncle Ruckus character in the Boondocks comic/cartoon series...look it up!!!
UTUSN
(77,795 posts)
barbtries
(31,308 posts)but he is. i think they're best friends.
LiberalFighter
(53,544 posts)They hid their religion.
3Hotdogs
(15,368 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)rusty fender
(3,428 posts)and secondly, Stephen Miller. Thirdly, she considers herself to be white.
Caliman73
(11,767 posts)Who identify and assist groups that would just as soon see them oppressed. Several cultural and racial groups have names for members of their own group who would do that.
I personally know people who are brown as crap, speak with a thick accent, and talk about "those illegals" even though they came into the country without papers and were lucky enough to live during the "Amnesty" period.
People are odd creatures.
DFW
(60,186 posts)"No, not ME!! I voted for Trump!"
(Good for you, and now you are getting what you voted for)
Like the wife of the Marine.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. - Maya Angelou
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Last edited Fri Sep 7, 2018, 09:12 AM - Edit history (1)
has video of Day 3
https://www.mediaite.com/online/did-zina-bash-just-troll-the-resistance-at-the-kavanaugh-confirmation-hearing/
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)
FM123
(10,372 posts)"when someone show you who they are, believe them the first time"
Trueblue Texan
(4,464 posts)That AOK sign is a sign for white supremacy? Is that right? If so I certainly didn't know it. But what would she be making that sign for anyway, even if it weren't some kind of white supremacy thing? ( Is it?)
lunasun
(21,646 posts)
mythology
(9,527 posts)People want to believe it's a racist symbol because it's easier than admitting they got trolled and did exactly what the originators predicted.
brush
(61,033 posts)use it to signal each other, just as they co-opted the Pepe the Frog character.
FBaggins
(28,706 posts)Hundreds of millions of people use the “ok” gesture just as it has been used for decades. Arguing that some white supremacists have co-opted the gesture does not mean that anyone you see doing it is a white supremacist.
brush
(61,033 posts)white supremacist from using the sign for what it means to them.
You or I or anyone else has no control of what those racists think and how they use the sign.
Their re-purposing of that sign for their own use is not new. Long before the 2016 election the white supremacist were flashing it at their rallies and it's been seen often in photos, just as they re-purposed the Pepe the Frog character. Have you also not heard of that?
Google it if you haven't. And if they can do that to a cartoon character of course they can re-purpose a hand sign.
There's also the bracketing of someone's name with triple parenthesis, like so (((John))) to indicate to other white supremacist that someone is Jewish. If you haven't heard of that either it's an actual thing too.
There are many anti-semitic racist fucks out there. We have no control of what develops in their sick sub-cultures.
FBaggins
(28,706 posts)Nobody is saying that white supremacists might not co-opt some otherwise innocent hand gestures. The invalid logic is the claim that anyone later using the same hand sign must be a white supremacist.
They can start using the "hook em horns" hand signal tomorrow and it won't make fans of the U of TX suddenly members of the group when they keep using it.
"All cows have four legs. Therefore animals with four legs are all cows" is the same type of argument.
brush
(61,033 posts)flashes that sign is using it as a white power sign.
The re-purposing exists in white supremacist sub-culture, and that is not a fallacy.
FBaggins
(28,706 posts)brush
(61,033 posts)That's ok. Live in your fallacy world.
Caliman73
(11,767 posts)What you can certainly argue about the hand sign is that it is designed to annoy liberals and is some kind of supposedly internal joke among Trump supporters. Some sources have it starting in 2015 when Trump was gearing up for the primaries. Such wonderful people as Milo Yiannopolis and other right wing personalities were doing it at Trump speeches. It graduated to others during the general and then to staffers in February of 2017 when Trump was inaugurated. 4 Chan picked up on it around the same time and said, "Hey let's do this hoax on liberals called "Operation OKKK" which is where the ADL got the information that it was a hoax.
Whether it is or not is still being established, but it is popular with Trumpers and White Nationalists if for nothing else, than to troll people and have a laugh. Bash has been around long enough to know its current significance. She is just being an asshole.
Beakybird
(3,397 posts)Who had white supremacist views and would have nothing to do with the Jewish side of her family.
She had a stroke in her 60's at home, and she had such a history of being grumpy that when she didn't answer the phone, her own kids thought she was mad at them. So her stroke was untreated for 5 days before she was discovered. Died soon after.
I met her once as a child. I'm from the Jewish side.
dalton99a
(94,115 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)that mountweazels often become a standard in their own right.
LAS14
(15,506 posts)Not trying to defend her on any other grounds. But I just don't see the same sign that is pictured in a later post in this thread. Oh. I've examined the reply in the thread more closely. Does this mean that the old OK sign is now a white supremacist sign?????? They can't have it!!!!
haele
(15,399 posts)The three fingers that make the "W" are always held so they can be viewed above or before the circle which signifies the top of the "P"; sometimes they twist the circle into the palm and have the tip of the thumb touch the middle of the index finger to exaggerate the look of a "P" by giving the circle a tail down one side, rather than just touching the tip of the index finger to the tip of the thumb so it looks like an O.
A couple days ago, while stopped at a light, I saw a small group of peckerheads flashing that sign to motorists near the local CC; it looked like a few of the apparently more impaired ones were having troubles getting their hands correct. The local police had also noticed; I noticed two squad cars had parked down the hill and four of the city's finest (three had skin tones much darker than the young men) were approaching the group as the light changed.
The WP will always look like a sideways closed hand gesture - a more awkward OK; rather than the typical open handed gesture with the circle aligned with the body that most people make when they flash "OK".
Haele
You mean like this?
For some reason, gesturing OK to my students had become a habit over roughly the same time frame as people started freaking out over what is largely an innocent, common, gesture - that isn't even. according to snopes (relyingon the Anti-Defamation League), a white power gesture. The association is a hoax.
The “OK” hand gesture hoax originated in February 2017 when an anonymous 4channer announced “Operation O-KKK,” telling other members that “we must flood Twitter and other social media websites … claiming that the OK hand sign is a symbol of white supremacy.” The user even provided a helpful graphic showing how the letters WP (for “white power”) could be traced within an “OK” gesture. The originator and others also suggested useful hashtags to help spread the hoax, such as #PowerHandPrivilege and #NotOkay. “Leftists have dug so deep down into their lunacy,” wrote the poster, “We must force [them] to dig more, until the rest of society ain’t going anywhere near that s***.”
https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/09/04/lawyer-accused-flashing-white-power-hand-gesture-kavanaugh-hearing/
Even though I know it is a hoax, the reaction here on DU flashes through my mind in the microsecond my hand is forming, too late to stop it if I chose to. I should not have to be paranoid that using a gesture that has meant OK for all of my life is suddenly too close to a gesture that 4chan hoaxed everyone a couple of years ago into believing was a white power symbol.
As to Bash, I have no idea whether she believes in white power or not. But her actions appear intended to stir the controversy, regardless of what the gesture itself meant to her. She knows, from the reaction yesterday, that she is on camera and every detail of her movements are under a microscope. She knows her hand resting on her arm was scrutinized and alleged to be a white power symbol. She can't have intentionally flashed an OK symbol today without being aware it would be held up as even more evidence it was a white power symbol. From that perspective, it seems to me like a chain-yanking gesture: See, you took a completely innocent hand position and blew it up, so - since it bothers you (and your'e spreading lies about me), I'll show you how ridiculous you are by intentionally flashing it today.
W_HAMILTON
(10,333 posts)The 4chan thread popped up in 2017, after several instances of white supremacists had already been using the gesture (e.g., Richard Spencer was photographed doing it on Election Day in 2016, etc.).
Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)Their job is tracking stuff like this.
W_HAMILTON
(10,333 posts)White supremacists like Richard Spencer were using the hand gesture well in advance of the thread on 4chan. This is a fact.
Alea
(706 posts)If they start using the thumbs up gesture we can't use it anymore? What about the vulcan "live long and prosper" gesture? What if they start putting a patch on their clothing that says "Democrat"? Do we quit saying Democrat? Let them steal that too? Friggin white supremacist don't control what I do or say.
Give in to them if you want.
Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)4chan picked up on the media hype over the clock being right (perfectly common hand gestures), even though it was broken (they were white supremacists) and decided to hoax the liberals. It worked.
They could just as easily have picked up on Clinton using the gesture in the image posted here - and decided to make up some fictional meaning to hoax the conservatives.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)In fact, any number of people can be shown to be making this gesture for decades back. So what. You keep making that assertion about Spencer in the apparent belief that just because some anonymous person on the internet says so, it is true. Please produce any pre-2017 explanation of this symbol. Not someone making it, but a reference proving what you keep asserting without evidence.
W_HAMILTON
(10,333 posts)So was that stupid fucking frog -- what sort of stupid logic is that? The fact is, white supremacists appropriated it and started using it well before 4chan posted a thread about it. Whether some people use it to mean "white power" or are simply trolling those on the left into thinking they are using it to mean "white power" is of no consequence -- these Trump-supporting deplorables aren't using it to mean "okay!" they are using it for more nefarious purposes and calling it a """hoax""" is fucking idiotic.
Believing any damn thing on a trash forum like 4chan is your problem to begin with. I didn't start believing the gesture was a symbol for white power because of some shit I read there -- I don't read shit there -- I started believing it when all the white supremacists and other bigots started using it as their go-to gesture.
If I see some asshole marching in the streets wearing a white polo shirt and khakis and carrying a fucking tiki torch, I'm not going to go consult 4chan to see what their attire could mean -- I'm going to assume it's because they are """virtue signaling""" that they are like those fucking Nazis that marched in Charlottesville.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)That's a fact too.
Alea
(706 posts)So I guess we can't use it that way anymore. I don't know if I want to give in to that or not. I don't know how to do the grey box quote thing so I will quote you with quotation marks the old fasioned way. "The reaction here on DU flashes through my mind in the microsecond my hand is forming, too late to stop it if I chose to." If you watch the next 5 minutes of that hearing you would see her get a text, shake her head in frustration, and get a befuddled look on her face. I think someone texted her, maybe her hubby, and said "you did it again and they're going to eat you alive now".
I'm not defending her. Maybe she's what everyone here is saying or maybe she's just done it all her life to say OK, like me, and just can't shift gears fast enough to remember not to do it.
A quick google search shows Obama, both Clintons, Nancy Pelosi, many other politicians from both sides, and hundreds of people of all colors doing it in what I assume is in the context of "OK". I guess we have to keep up with changing times and meanings or risk getting "Bash(ed)" lol.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)In February of 2017, users on the anonymous imageboard /pol/ of 4chan set out on a prank to convince mainstream media outlets that the OK hand gesture had been hijacked for use by white supremacists to signal one another publicly.[11] The pranksters claimed that the three upward fingers of the OK hand sign represented the letter “W” while the circle formed by joining of the index finger to the thumb leading down the arm represented the letter "P". The acronym formed by "W" and "P" was asserted to be shorthand for “White Power.” The original thread produced infographics explaining this usage concisely, which were subsequently spread to many different media outlets according to the Anti-Defamation League (ADL). The hoax began to gain traction when media outlets began reporting on the usage of the OK gesture as if it were, in fact, being used as a white supremacist hand gesture.[12] Most of these media outlets have since recanted their statements, citing the official response from the ADL.[citation needed] The ADL has confirmed that the OK gesture is not a white supremacist hand sign.[13]
However, while the "OK" sign as a specific white power symbol was found to be a 4chan prank, it has been used as a gesture of identification among members of the white nationalist alt-right movement.[14] When asked about use of the "OK" sign, Right wing celebrity Lauren Southern said, “We just say ‘do the thing’ and everyone knows what you're talking about.” She linked use of the "OK" sign by the Alt-Right community to a gesture commonly used by United States President Donald Trump.[15] In July 2018, four Alabama police officers were suspended for being photographed making the hand gesture, since changing the uncertainty of the acceptable use of the sign.[16] Some Internet users have accused people in the political sphere of using the gesture.[17][18][19]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OK_(gesture)
Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)conveniently cut out the moment after she uses the gesture (likely because they don't support the connection they are trying to make - and I'm not about to go troll through the Kavanaugh hearing to try to find it).
I'll just get bashed - It is not worth the energy it takes to self-police myself over a hoax created to drive liberals crazy.
Kingofalldems
(40,277 posts)Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)and is trying to yank our chain.
So - even if they are being serious - what difference does it make? You need to see them flash a not-so-secret symbol to know their nature?
If Bash was trying to send a secret signal, do you thinks she would use a symbol that is so hyped?
This "I-See-Your-Secret-Handshake" crap is making a is a moutain out of a molehill, and it only serves to distract us from more important things - just as the anonymous 4chan expressly intended.
Ignore it.
Fla_Democrat
(2,622 posts)Put up 5 pictures, say Obama, Clinton, Trump, McConnell, and B. Sanders, all making the gesture, and the results will be....
2 Good
2 Bad
1 Let's all fight over the last primary again.
Bet you looked.
Gothmog
(179,857 posts)
Catherine Vincent
(34,610 posts)
AmandaRuth
(3,199 posts)even after her spouse used an official account to defend her, she does this. She knows exactly what she is doing, and someone needs to get her in front of a camera and have her explain.
dlk
(13,247 posts)AmandaRuth
(3,199 posts)if she was trolling, why troll about a subject like racial inequality, white supremacy, and the state of race relations under tRump - everyone needs to hear the explanation. because she KNEW exactly what she was doing
demmiblue
(39,719 posts)They are pawning it of as some sort of left-wing conspiracy theory, like they did here:
lunasun
(21,646 posts)
Ponietz
(4,330 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I assured right here on DU that I was over-reacting and that she is just making the OK sign, which is in no way racist, even though it's been highjacked by white supremacists.
Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)It was highjacked by an anonymous poster on 4chan for the purpose of yanking liberal's chains by fooling them into thinking it was a white power symbol.
From the Anti-Defamation League, via snopes:
https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/09/04/lawyer-accused-flashing-white-power-hand-gesture-kavanaugh-hearing/
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)rusty fender
(3,428 posts)The white power/neonazis/right-winger/Trumpasses have now embraced this sign as their own. Anyone using it now, knows that it’s the symbol of a hateful, racist ideology. It’s no longer an “innocent” trolling device.
Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)A relatively select group of hyper-political people on both extremes believe it is a symbol of white power. The majority of the US population recognizes it as an OK symbol, and is using it in that manner - and will continue to be used that way. And in places like DU people will go nuts over it - but only if it is used by someone we already hate. When it is used by Clinton, Obama, etc., we'll ignore it becuase it doesnt' fit with the story line.
It is also, for what it's worth, a life-saving gesture in diving - likely why it is a habit for me. If you don't make the OK symbol back to your buddy when requested (and if you don't use it to check on your buddy), it is a sign that something is wrong, and everything that is not OK on a dive is life threatening.
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)When racists and their ilk use it, it is definitely a sign to their brethren and a symbol of hate.
When you use it to signal a friend, then, of course, it means ok 
Grasswire2
(13,849 posts)It's a signal from them to other thems. 
And by extension a troll they use on non-thems. It first pissed me off when I saw the white nationalist stooge that Trump credentialed as a White House Correspondent use it -- he and his "publisher" stood in the podium of the James Brady Briefing Room and flashed the sign.
The next time I saw it, Roger Stone was posing with a small group of Proud Boys in a bar in Salem Oregon. All of them flashing the sign. We know who Proud Boys are and what they are.
I know what it is. It's not OK. And any person in a position of authority (LEO, teacher...) using that sign today is making a mistake thinking they are simply signaling OK.
You can see Gateway Pundit's Jim Hoft (a longtime Bannon cohort) and Lucian Wintrich in a photo at the top of the story in the link here: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/fake-news-gateway-pundit-white-house-trump-briefing-room-214781
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)sand and refuse to acknowledge that the “ok” hand sign has become something different than what we grew up with 
brush
(61,033 posts)They flash it to ID themselves to each other, and you can call it trolling, or it came from a 4chan prank all you want.
What it means to them is what it means.
Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)just like the annoying kid brother who has discovered exactly what to say to set off his big sister.
brush
(61,033 posts)Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)tha twas innocent the first time he did it, but it got a rise out of her - so he continued, even though he wasn't deliberately trying to get her riled up the first time - It only works if we respond.
I'm just not going to get all hyped up over someone flashing an OK sign, and cede use of an ordinary hand gesture to a vile ideology.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)It obviously hasn't been a thing but they are making it a thing and using it to just fuck with people.
The video of her doing it the first time is pretty unambigious. She's clearly making a sign with her hand and making sure it's visible to the camera.
She's quite the little shit stirrer.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)It was absolutely thrown out there to get people talking like a Rorschach blot and now people are praising her for last night as a “Fuck you” to “the insane left” who pointed her out. People who I’d consider good Democrats think she was treated horribly and have actually fallen for her “What, MEEEEEE?” act.
They are children. They are assholes. This is who is running this country.
Response to kpete (Original post)
Bonx This message was self-deleted by its author.
blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)But I also can't believe someone of a different race would be a white supremacist.
IluvPitties
(3,185 posts)Latin Americans of European descent.
salin
(48,958 posts)Bonus - a picture in the item shows the proud boys throwing the hand sign like a gang sign. Suggests an ingroup cooptation of the sign.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)
C_U_L8R
(49,384 posts)At least her last name isn't Reltih.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Wondering if Zina is her given name or if she made it up for reasons you suggest?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Caliman73
(11,767 posts)That is the generally and globally accepted meaning. It can also be interpreted as a gang sign in certain areas. Context is the key, which is why trolls on the right seem to have adopted the hand gesture.
I know when I do it, it is an Okay gesture. When Trump supporters do it, they are doing it to piss off liberals. Context.
Unfortunately, the more that the racists and idiots who support Trump do the gesture, the more it will grow into association with them and their ideology. Symbols and gestures change throughout history.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)You’ll get no reply
Caliman73
(11,767 posts)A lot of the time I just try to put out information in hopes that someone will look it up or think about it.
Donkees
(33,707 posts)Swede
(39,492 posts)Gothmog
(179,857 posts)
Historic NY
(40,037 posts)it was easier to see live
aikoaiko
(34,214 posts)
LAS14
(15,506 posts)... with my earlier reply. They can't have it!!!!! I'll continue to use OK without worrying about it. It would be weird if some white supremacist suddenly started treating me like an ally, but I'd welcome the opportunity to set them straight.