Ayn Rand was an Atheist

[B Calm]

Paul Ryan worships Ayn Rand. So now we have a Mormon and a so called Catholic that worships an Atheist. How will this sit with the right wing Evangelists?

[Xipe Totec]

1. And a welfare queen

http://atheism.about.com/b/2011/02/06/ayn-rand-welfare-queen-living-high-on-government-assistance.htm

[meaculpa2011]

91. You consider Social Security and Medicare...

to be welfare?

[Xipe Totec]

94. No, of course not.

Anything else?

[MattBaggins]

2. Militant Atheist

Make sure you use militant.

[Smilo]

3. And wrote fiction which Ryan adheres to n/t

[progressivebydesign]

4. Maybe I'm clueless.. but did Ron Paul actually name his son "RAND" because of Ayn Rand?? n/t

[B Calm]

5. I think he did!

[white_wolf]

7. Thom Hartmann asked him this. Ron Paul said no.

Rand Paul's name is actually Randy, he just likes Rand better.

[reformist2]

48. Krugerrand? :)

[cherokeeprogressive]

68. His name is Randal. n/t

[white_wolf]

6. Technically, hasn't Ryan thrown Rand under bus?

I'm pretty sure he said he had no clue about her atheism, which is bullshit her books make it crystal clear, and replaced her with Thomas Aquinas.

[Johonny]

8. they don't read Ayn Rand (does anyone)

they just are happy that someone wrote a book that tells them being greedy *holes is ok. So Republicans are perfectly happy to throw the using reason, the atheism, and sticking to the greedy part of the message. They LOVE Ayn Rand they just like they LOVE the bible. You have to know to throw out the parts they secretly know Jesus and Ayn didn't mean, you know most of their central message

[white_wolf]

10. "they don't read Ayn Rand"

Do they even read period?

[Tom Ripley]

23. That's a very good point. They do use her work like a totem that validates their faith

[mrs_p]

32. I haven't read Thomas Aquinas

in years, but I really can't recall anything that he wrote that would justify the selfish, unjust, plutocratic policies Ryan espouses.

[RebelOne]

9. How will this sit with Ryan's Catholic church?

[catbyte]

11. Does Ryan even care? The Bishops called his budget immoral

[hedgehog]

13. That should be

Even the Bishops called his budget immoral. They've been pushing Catholics to vote Republican, but even the Bishops can't stomach some things!

[alfredo]

38. They urged him to choose between Rand and Jesus.

I think Ryan is a CINO (Catholic in name only)

[JNelson6563]

14. *gasp* An atheist???

OMG!1! That's so scary!1!

They don't get any more evil than that. Ugh.

Julie

[B Calm]

17. You'd think any good upstanding

right-wing christian evangelical would have an awful hard time voting for this ticket, unless of course they are all truly sinful hypocrites!

Mitt Romney a Mormon who made 50 million tax dollars in the abortion industry and a so called Catholic who is really an atheist at heart.

Damn how ugly does it got to get before these right wing christians stay home in November?

[JNelson6563]

19. I doubt he's an atheist

If anything he is the quintessential American Christian.

Julie

[B Calm]

20. I think he is! He probably is

just using the Catholic Church as a cover to get elected.

[trotsky]

25. Yes, because only an atheist could be that evil, right? n/t

[2ndAmForComputers]

30. There seems to be exactly that implication.

[B Calm]

34. Why take Atheism so personal? It's

not a religion.

I'm very sure there are some evil atheists as well as some nice ones.

[trotsky]

37. What I'm taking "personal (sic)" is the insinuation...

that heartless right-wingers MUST be atheists, because no Christian could think like that.

If you don't understand why atheists might find such a sentiment offensive, you have a lot of learning to do.

[B Calm]

39. Having thin skin is not an atheist trait!

[trotsky]

43. Actually, the only "atheist trait" is lacking belief in god(s).

Everything else you want to tack on there, including your belief that bad people can only be atheists, is false.

[redqueen]

59. No, but a penchant for logic is, and you're failing at it. nt

[Shankapotomus]

44. I think the OP

is trying to say Ryan's hero is the antithesis to the typical conservative voter, not that atheism is inherently bad.

[trotsky]

45. The OP, yes. But subsequent posts have clearly tacked that part on.

I.e., not all atheists are bad people, but all bad people are atheists.

That's bigotry.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

50. I hear you on that...

But as an attack line, it's going to be helpful in driving a wedge between Ryan and a least a small segment of Christian voters.

Don't take it personally. Liberals (even Christian Liberals) know that there a difference between being an Atheist and a Heartless Little Shit.

[trotsky]

51. Would you be advocating for this tactic if it was associated with a different group?

What if there were rumors Paul Ryan was gay? Should Democrats use that to drive a wedge?

What if one of Ryan's parents or grandparents was Jewish? Should that be used as a wedge with certain Christian voters?

I highly suspect you'd say NO emphatically to each of the above. So why is it OK to perpetuate stereotypes and hatred against atheists?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

52. On the gay? I'd beat him like a rented mule.

Not because he was gay, but because he would be a hypocrit. Gay and Republican? Not Fabulous! Sort of like pretending to be a Christian while ignoring that whole "blessed are the poor" business in the Sermon on the Mount.

And Jewish? No. Not much of a wedge. But if it were, Hell yes, I'd use it.

[trotsky]

53. So you would exploit hatred against homosexuals and Jews...

in order to score political points? Wow.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

54. Bit of a leap, don't you think?

I would exploit a candidate's hypocrisy in being an anti-gay Republican while being gay himself. Just as I would exploit Ryan's public piety vs. his decidedly unpious budget and his ties to a radical atheist.

To paraphrase James Carville, "It's the hypocrisy, Stupid"

[trotsky]

56. No, you said you would use those issues as a wedge.

Meaning you would be relying on and promoting anti-gay or anti-Semitic sentiments among certain right-wing supporters.

You are also feeding the anti-atheist bigotry here by calling his budget "unpious." So the only good budgets are pious ones? And all bad ones are impious? Are budgets supposed to be devoutly religious?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

60. That's not what I said and it's not what I meant

And to be honest, if I have choice between Democratics in office and you with your nose out of joint, do I have to tell you which one I'm going to pick?

[trotsky]

61. I just think it's wrong to feed and perpetuate harmful stereotypes.

Thanks for the kiss off.

[Mr Dixon]

46. WOW

Agreed how scary

[LiberalAndProud]

15. Right wing Evangelists have more in common with Rand than not, I think.

I believe they share the same moral compass, Rand's atheism notwithstanding.

[Motown_Johnny]

18. Some Rand quotes

http://atheism.about.com/library/quotes/bl_q_ARand.htm

^snip^

14. The alleged short-cut to knowledge, which is faith, is only a short circuit destroying the mind.

15. Faith is the worse curse of mankind, as the exact antithesis and enemy of thought.

20. To rest one's case on faith means to concede that reason is on the side of one's enemies- that one has no rational arguments to offer.










http://listverse.com/2007/12/13/top-25-ayn-rand-quotes/

^snip^

11. Money is the barometer of a society’s virtue.

9. It only stands to reason that where there’s sacrifice, there’s someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there’s service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master.

8. Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities.

[LiberalAndProud]

21. Interesting quotes. I was mezmerized by this one.

9. It only stands to reason that where there’s sacrifice, there’s someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there’s service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master.

Romney: "My plan for America requires real leadership. And it calls for sacrifice. It doesn’t require a leader to promise bigger and bigger benefits, and something for nothing. Let me underscore that. It doesn’t require a leader to promise bigger and bigger benefits, and free stuff. It requires a leader ... to call for sacrifice."

Point 11 rather illustrates my point.

11. Money is the barometer of a society’s virtue.

Prosperity Gospel: He raiseth up the poor out of the dust and lifteth up the beggar from the dung hill to set them among princes and make them inherit the throne of glory...” (I Sam. 2:8). “The blessing of the Lord, it maketh rich and He addeth no sorrow with it.” (Prov. 10:22). “A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children’s children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just” (Prov. 13:22). “Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth” (3 John 2). These scriptures are evidence that as children of God, we shouldn’t live as if our lives are falling apart. God wants us to have the best that life has to offer and He is the only one that can provide us with these desires. Certainly, anyone with common sense knows that God wouldn’t say these things if He wanted us poor, sick, and unhappy. God has no respect of person. Read further and see what God said, “And the Lord shall make thee plenteous in goods in the fruit of the body... The Lord shall open unto thee His good treasure... and thou shall lend unto many nations and thou shalt not borrow... the Lord shall make thee the head and not the tail, and thou shalt be above only and thou shalt not be beneath; if thou hearken unto the commandments of the Lord thy God which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them” (Deut. 28:11-13).

[YellowRubberDuckie]

24. Austerity is what he is calling for....

And we see how well that is working in Europe...NOT! Europe is used to Socialism. They will not stand for this shit much longer. IT is a powder keg ready to blow over there. Sure, Americans will eat that shit with a spoon for a while...but it will sour quickly and I believe we are in for another civil war or the US splitting into different countries. It's long past due.

[Motown_Johnny]

16. And Joseph Smith was a Polytheist. I call that a balanced ticket.

[Tom Ripley]

22. And a douchebag with no writing chops

[valerief]

26. How will they ever find out? Their pastors and Fox and Rush won't tell them. nt

[B Calm]

88. I guess it's up to us to

educate the Evangelicals and let them know that Ryan pals around with Atheists!

[rrneck]

27. It wont matter.

If the powers that be say they're the guys, they'll fall in line behind them.

[Deep13]

28. Sadly, Rand was not the only RW atheist. nt

[Rosa Luxemburg]

29. Does Paul Rat know he is an atheist

[B Calm]

41. Of course he knows! The question is,

do the right-wing evangelists who plan to vote for him know?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

42. not yet!

[Ter]

31. Ryan likes NDAA, TARP, the Patriot Act, and bailouts

He's no libertarian or Randian in the least. In fact, the Ron Paul people hate him.

[cleanhippie]

33. Are you more concerned about Rand's philosphy or atheism that Ryan allegedly follows?

It would seem that you are espousing the view that being an atheist is a negative quality. Are we reading your correctly?

[B Calm]

64. Whoosh. . .

[JI7]

66. NO, the OP is talking about right wing Evangelical Types , and what their views on Ryan being an

atheist would be . and of course what they think of a mormon/atheist ticket .

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Which proves that even atheists can write bad novels and be admired by idiots.

[alfredo]

36. All the Libertarians I've known smoked dope and were Atheist.

[Major Nikon]

96. Ayn Rand didn't have any use for libertarians either

[alfredo]

97. Freud wasn't a Freudian they say. Why couldn't they

dress up like the Trekkies do instead of boring the shit out of us?

[Iggo]

40. Stupid atheists!

[mr blur]

47. and Hitler was a Catholic. So what? nt

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

49. They don't care...

Evangelicals really don't care much for any old grubby middle easterner. They worship themselves and their own piety.

If Jesus says feed the poor, they'll ignore that because it conflicts with their sense of entitlement. If Jesus says nothing at all about gays, they create biblical-sounding prosecriptions against gay marriage and pretend that Jesus said it. These people are no more Christian than their housepets.

Edit:

That being said however, even as a practicing Christian (still hoping to get it right one of these days) I object to the simplistic label of "atheist" being slapped on Ayn Rand. Sure, she was an atheist, but I have many friends who manage to be both atheists and decent, caring human beings. BIG difference.

[Nevernose]

55. Satanism is just Objectivism

With some superstitious mumbo-jumbo sprinkled on top.

[BarackTheVote]

67. Exactly

Read "Anthem" when I was on a dystopia kick a few years ago. That novella sent a chill down my spine. She goes beyond atheism into ethical egoism and self-worship ("man is God&quot . This is a form of satanism (LaVeyan Satanism takes some of its philosophical cues directly from Rand).

[redqueen]

57. Right wingers need to stop lying to themselves and just worship Ayn.

She was all 'Fuck the poor!' and so are they.

Jesus had a rather different message.

They need to just drop the pretense already. They don't worship god. They worship mammon.

[sarcasmo]

58. Kick!

[IcyPeas]

62. She was Pro-Abortion too.

[Major Hogwash]

63. Hero worshipping Ayn Rand was Ryan's downfall.

He can't run away from it. We have the tapes!!

[JI7]

65. Has anyone here asked Evangelicals in their area what they think of Ryan being an Atheist ?

Does Paul Ryan being an Atheist make you more likely, less likely , or no change in whether you will vote for Romney/Ryan ?

and of course while we are at it we can ask if Romney being a Mormon does one of those things also.

[Karmasue]

70. The Romney/Ryan ticket is bad for America...

It doesn't matter to me what the religion, lack thereof, gender, gender preference, race, class, or any other label we tend to attach to other people.

These are the extremely important issues - jobs, equal rights (again), mega-corporatism, congressional corruption, supreme court partisanship (and the ridiculous associated congressional "court" process), the election process (including Citizen's United, the electorate, donations and campaigns), feeding our hungry citizens and taking care of our elderly, Medicare, Social Security, Health Care, caring for our planet, and so much more.

I want America to be strong and healthy again, and a more socially and politically responsible member of the global community by addressing those issues (and others of course) and making knowledgeable, considered and appropriate decisions...that is what matters to me.

I haven't necessarily agreed with everything the President has done, and I know it can't be done overnight, but I can say with conviction that I think he has always made decisions that he believed were in the best interests of America and her citizens.

That is what matters.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

69. Don't a lot of Fundie mega churches preach capitalism, competition, and building wealth

and in fact pray to God as a means of getting rich? I think there is a strain of religion that glorifies scratching and clawing one's way to the top as the American and Godly way while rejecting government and social programs aimed at leveling the playing field. I don't think they see it as involving inherent contradictions with traditional notions of Christianity. I don't know but that they wouldn't admire Ayn Rand if they knew her teachings as being compatible with their selfish version of Christianity.

[liberalhistorian]

71. Not only was she a militant

atheist, she was downright overtly and openly hostile to Christianity and everything Jesus stood for, especially the social gospel. She spoke numerous times of how ridiculous and "inhuman" Jesus's altruistic doctrine was, because selfishness and making sure to "get yours" above all else, no matter who you fucked over, was the ultimate purpose of humanity, according to her.

Now, as a devout Christian who's attending a progressive, liberal seminary that focuses on the social gospel and social justice, I have no problem at all with atheists or agnostics., In fact, there are students at my seminary who are atheist or agnostic; their goal is not the ministry, but to teach. The problem I have is with those hypocrites who claim to be Christian and to follow Christ, (I'm looking at YOU, Paul Ryan, and your RW evangelical ilk), but who revere and espouse Ayn Rand, who was the absolute antithesis of Christianity.

[Alduin]

72. What's scarier than that is a guy who follows the teachings of Joseph Smith...

could potentially become our next president.

[Karmasue]

74. Is it all religions,

or just Mormons that scare you? Just curious.

[Alduin]

81. Mormons are idiots.

Anyone who follows the teachings from a guy who reads golden tablets out of a hat is an idiot.

And, if you can't tell from my avatar, I hate all religions.

[Karmasue]

84. Your avatar doesn't reflect hate, it's just clipart...

so I couldn't tell from it that you hate all religions. I just thought it meant atheist. Not all atheists hate, you know.

Why would you hate all religions? Most of them just worship one more god than you do, and a few less than the early Greeks and Romans.

[Alduin]

86. Why do I hate religions?

See what they're doing to our country? They're turning it backwards! They're anti-choice, anti-homosexual, anti-evolution, hell, anti-science. And I should respect religion? Fuck that!

[Karmasue]

85. And Mormons aren't idiots.

Most of my family are Mormons. They are not idiots. They are educated and intelligent. They are loving and kind.

But while we are on the subject, it seems your Avatar does give me more insight about you after all. It appears to reflect an intermediary fossil form that has not yet completed it's evolutionary journey. Good choice.

[Alduin]

87. You can't use "educated" and "intelligent" when talking about Mormons.

[Comrade Grumpy]

90. Religous bigotry is not nice.

And your broad-brushing of all religious people as fundie nutballs is inaccurate.

I'm not a believer in any creed myself, but I respect other people's right to believe what they choose--as long as they're not fucking with the rights of others.

Many bad things have happened because of religion, but so have many good ones.

[Alduin]

92. So Mormons are intelligent?

They follow the teachings of a guy who read golden tablets and translated them.

Those people are idiots.

[Comrade Grumpy]

95. At least they're not assholes.

[Alduin]

98. I'd rather be an asshole than stupid.

[Angry Dragon]

73. and a communist

[Karmasue]

75. Just to be clear...

You said: Paul Ryan worships Ayn Rand. So now we have a Mormon and a so called Catholic that worships an Atheist. How will this sit with the right wing Evangelists?



I am not a Ryan fan, but I don't recall him saying that he worshiped Ayn Rand. I really only recall him quoting her on a number of occasions, and even saying some glowing things about her philosophies. But worshiping?

Or was your use of the word worship an exaggeration simply used as a point of emphasis?

[cr8tvlde]

78. Requiring your staff to purchase and read a book, any book, goes beyond

being a fan/fanatic, IMHO. And if this was regards to the Bible and Jesus, yes, we'd assume there was Christian worship going on. Same for the Torah or the Koran or the Tao or Mein Kampf... it is evangelizing.

[no_hypocrisy]

76. Please, we don't want to explain or apologize.

[Heather MC]

77. ANYONE BUT THE BLACK GUY!

at the end of the day that's all that matters

[cr8tvlde]

79. I guarantee you that if Obama was in any, shape or form linked with Ayn Rand,

that's all we'd be hearing about.

It is true, the Republicans have fielded a ticket with candidates that worship/believe in Joseph Smith and a Ayn Rand/Russian Atheist. The Catholics ... Nuns or Bishops ... are not owning Candidate Ryan's thinly veiled religious cover...saw somewhere herein a CINO...Catholic in name only. (Had his staff buy and read one of her books and I'm guessing he didn't also require them to buy and read a Bible.) My dad used to say, your actions are so loud I can't hear what you are saying.

As for Evangelicals, kind of like Bristol Palin making herself a small fortune speaking out on abstinence, they forgive their own very quickly and fervently.

[B Calm]

83. They would be attacking Obama non stop.

They would be screaming at the top of their lungs to the Evangelicals that Obama pals around with Atheists!

[Green_Lantern]

80. As an agnostic/nontheist I'm concerned about highlighting the spectre of atheism...

As an attack.

I don't want people to keep having a negative reaction to the word atheist.

Rand wasn't just an atheist...she was a social Darwinist and anti-humanism.

[cr8tvlde]

82. Atheism is useful only because it is the only way possible to reach the intellectually challenged

RW Fundamentalists...yes or no, black or white, up or down, Heaven or Hell, Christian or non-Christian. Stuck in dyadic thinking. They proudly consider themselves anti-humanist (read, secular) , too ... it's a plank in most every RW religion. It's what is standing in their way from daily prayers in the classroom...secular humanism/separation of church and state...bad.

Militant, Russian Atheist...they understand. Oh, and not to worry, atheist is not only negative, it will send you to Hell. No way to get more negative than that. I've lived this nightmare for more decades than I like to count...LOL.

[Green_Lantern]

89. I only call myself atheist based on the Judeo-Christian definition of god

Being all knowing, omnipotent, etc.

As you said Christianity only accepts a narrow spiritual view.

[cr8tvlde]

93. I find it fascinating that Paul Ryan is thus far negotiating a foot in each camp...

Christianity/Catholicism for the Fundie troops and Atheism/Randism for his approach to life...and he's not getting called out on it...thus far.

RWers can be unbelievably obtuse.

[Act_of_Reparation]

99. Ryan lists Rage Against the Machine as one of his favorite bands...

...does that make him a socialist, too?

Give me a break.

You aren't going to sully his reputation amongst the wingnuts because...

1) It is very likely Ryan is not an atheist.

2) Conservatives believe whatever the fuck they want, regardless of facts.

This is why Ryan can like Rage Against the Machine and stand for virtually everything they stand against. This is why Paul Ryan can fawn over Ayn Rand and still consider himself a good little Catholic.

Reality is subjective to these people.

Furthermore, I can't even comprehend precisely what you people are trying to accomplish with this little atheist-roast. Do you think if you sully Ryan's name in front of the GOP's most reliable constituents that they'll realize the errors of their ways and vote for Obama? Or do you think they'll set aside their hatred for liberals for one election day and stay home?

I am curious to know.