General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)wtf. no.
what's wrong with people's taste!
JI7
(93,580 posts)when you first talk to them,but when you are alone or out of nowhere he will just say something perverted .
Drale
(7,932 posts)that seem all nice and normal but later their neighbors tell the news reporters that he was always nice and quite after they find the bodies in his crawlspace.
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)
hlthe2b
(113,893 posts)
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)That creep looks exactly like an adult Eddie Munster.
MotorCityMan
(1,203 posts)he looks like Terry 'O Quinn in the movie "The Stepfather" (the original, not the unneeded remake).
Agreed, though, pure evil.
ellisonz
(27,776 posts)
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)
TheMightyFavog
(13,770 posts)While gun deer hunters can fire at distances of over 150 meters, Bowhunters have to let their quarry get within 25 meters for them to have a chance at hitting. No small task when one takes a whitetail deer's superior senses of smell and hearing into account. And then there's tracking the deer once it has been hit. With a gun hunter, usually the deer drops when the bullet hits them. Unless they are fortunate to pierce the heart, bowhunters have the task of tracking their prey, a task that can take hours, depending on where the deer is hit.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)it dies an agonizing death with an arrow in it.
NickB79
(20,343 posts)An arrow through the chest with a multiple, 2" long razorblades causes a deer to bleed out pretty rapidly. They're so sharp, they usually pass right through the entire deer!
All things considered, hunting with a gun probably leads to more run-offs than hunting with a bow.
Paladin
(32,354 posts)A bullet from a deer rifle striking anywhere close to a vital area drops a deer instantly, via massive shock. An arrow-shot deer runs off and has to be tracked to where it falls after losing a sufficient amount of blood---and the tracking skills of a lot of bow hunters aren't that good, so animals are lost. Just one more reason to dislike Ryan.
Equate
(256 posts)any different than a bow hunter's?
I've had to track a Buck once and an Elk once after my arrows only wounded them, I had no trouble tracking them.
A bow hunter's tracking skills are just as good as a hunter that uses a rifle.
Paladin
(32,354 posts)Rifle hunters normally don't need much in the way of tracking skills; a rifle shot in or near a vital area will drop a deer in its tracks, cleanly and humanely. Conversely, a bow hunter had better be a skilled tracker, because an arrow-shot deer will run. And run. And run some more.
FYI, I know several Texas ranchers who have disallowed bow hunting on their places. Way too many rotting, arrow-shot deer carcasses turned up, weeks after bow hunters shot and lost them. An elegant game animal deserves better.
rl6214
(8,142 posts)Not true...I shot a deer with a 30-06 thru the heart while it was standing still and it still managed to take off. I found it about 30 yards away. I know I shot it thru the heart because when I field dressed it, it's heart was just exploded.
madokie
(51,076 posts)You or mr. rabbit don't have a fucking clue, sorry
My apologies, it should read Ms rather than mr.
formercia
(18,479 posts)For Bears, a 5 Gallon pail of cake icing works like a charm.
I doubt if Ryan spent any time figuring out when the Buck does his rounds. They were probably captive shoots.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)formercia
(18,479 posts)She swears by cake icing and her pics prove it. The local bakery provides her with free leftovers.
Carroll
(16 posts)Is it also true that without some hunting, the deer population would explode, leading to outbreaks of diseases more gruesome than looking up at that dude's face?
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)shot with an arrow sounds like so much fun. Only a sociopath would enjoy doing that.
Equate
(256 posts)Only a sociopath would enjoy knowing that the animal is out there with an arrow and no one is tracking it.
You don't like hunting, good for you, however, there are scads of us that do and I refuse to apologize for it nor do I feel the slightest guilt for it.
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)It does keep the deer population in check and most hunters are conservationists. I just didn't like the idea of tracking a wounded animal until it finally dropped dead.
Equate
(256 posts)and when I'm wrong, I'll admit to being wrong. I apologize and offer myself up for the appropriate punishment. 
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)I'm sure I wasn't clear about what I meant.
I always admit when I'm wrong as well. There's nothing sillier than someone who refuses to admit they're wrong even it's when obvious even to them that they are.
podiceptor
(2 posts)In states like Wisconsin, Quality Deer Management and other programs actually contribute to deer over-population through the cultivation of food plots and so forth. People don't realize that a lot of deer "management" actual entails precisely this type of "mismanagement" for the benefit of hunters. Hunters can then say they're culling the population, all the while the programs in place are keeping the deer numbers elevated for the hunt -- and all the while other predators are effectively eliminated from the ecological cycle. It's a big ruse, and people should educate themselves on this before they buy into the PR that hunting groups so cleverly spread around under the auspices of "conservation."
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)the road to and from work.
I think bow hunters sit still and wait until a deer comes by. Besides with one of those high tech bows it's practically shooting a rifle. I use to own one and could hit a target easily with it.
Equate
(256 posts)
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)
Squinch
(59,484 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Hopefully you don't eat factory meat, where the animal often isn't dead before they start dismantling it....
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)I like having a freezer full of food. I am finishing up processing a boar now. Making Italian sausage today.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)
Peregrine Took
(7,583 posts)RebelOne
(30,947 posts)It is not a sport unless the other side is equally armed.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)
GCP
(8,167 posts)I couldn't give a fuck. If you were living in post-apocalypse times, OK, I salute you, otherwise, nobody needs to hunt in a so-called first world country.
Mike_Valentine
(35 posts)... and deliver it to your local supermarket.
Seriously, what is the difference?
At least with hunting it yourself you know the source. Lots of hoighty toighty snobbery in this whole thread.
eek MD
(391 posts)Having grown up in a rural area, hunting is pretty much a rite of passage. I've never actually killed anything, but I've been hunting several times with my folks (along with fishing). It might seem gruesome, but unless you're a vegetarian you would probably be getting your meat somewhere else anyway (probably from animals that aren't raised in a very humane way). Also, the way we've fucked things up, the deer population is out of balance in many areas and hunting basically keeps the deer population from ballooning out of control. It's also a great excuse to get out into nature and walk around.
The statement above is certainly illustrates a big reason we never do well in rural areas as a party.
mostly game birds like quail, chucker, pheasant, duck, dove and once a year, if I'm lucky, I will bag a deer or an elk. Nothing tastes better than wild game w/o the anti biotics and steroids added to those factory farm animals you are so fond of eating.
If I have meat left over, I'll donate it to a homeless shelter to help feed the homeless and they are damned grateful for the donation.
And I do pose by the deer or elk I am lucky enough to kill and I make no apologies for it.
If you knew what went into those factory farm animals, you would be horrified.
We also grow our own vegetables.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Hunting is also a management tool. Do me a favor though, do not look up how your cows, pigs and chickens are raised.
xmas74
(30,054 posts)It feeds their families in the winter time, as a supplement to what they've processed from their gardens. You have a family of four living off of just a smidge over minimum wage, living on a trailer in the country, then hunting can be useful.
I know a family of five who does just that. They live in a trailer out in the country, grow most of their own food, buy large bulk grains from the local Amish, have a couple of chickens for eggs, goats for their milk, and the only meat they eat is what they get from hunting/fishing.
You can make the argument about first world countries and living arrangements but it doesn't matter. All the talk in the world isn't helping them stock their freezer, their pantry, and their cellar for the winter and spring. Without hunting they would be much worse off.
adigal
(7,581 posts)Bu I don't think that is the case with Ryan. He hunts because he likes to kill.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Surely you have some evidence to back it up...? 
adigal
(7,581 posts)And he looks giddy over his kill. Who takes pictures like that? Not a real hunter who honors his kill for providing him with food.
Equate
(256 posts)about posing over the kill.
Every hunter I know, myself included, pose with the kill, for me, it's a rite of passage and more photos for my scrapbook.
How do you know he isn't hunting for food? You don't know.
I live pretty comfortably also, but I hunt for my food, grow my own vegetables. Being worth almost a million dollars has nothing to do with hunting.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)There are a lot of people "worth almost a million dollars" that hunt for food. Look at any big family farming operation.
Regardless, "need" has nothing to do with it... unless you are suggesting that you are somehow morally superior to people who kill their own food, or those that kill your food for you.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Who takes pictures like that? Every bass, bluegill, crappie, bonita, or other animal anyone in my family has hunted or fished for and bagged has made it onto the table and provided my family with its sustenance. Some of the biggest/most colorful have made it onto film.
If I had the opportunity to show you pictures of my Grandpa, Father, Uncles, and yes even my Grandma posing with everything from doves (peaceful doves? NO!) to elk going back all the way to the 50's, I would. They exist, as do pictures of me with my first deer, taken in Utah back in 1970. My family has hunted and fished since long before I came on the scene and not only do I hunt and fish to this very day, there's always a camera somewhere within reach to record a particularly successful outing.
What would you say about those honest workaday labor union supporting Democratic voting people? Would you hold them in contempt and disrespect them?
I understand that Paul Ryan is the enemy. Equating your hatred of him with normal everyday people is something I have a problem with.
Grave Grumbler
(160 posts)I've noticed that the outrage of the anti-hunting crowd is usually directly proportional to how cute the animal in question is, with the notable exception of animals that they describe as "magnificent" (lions, elephants,etc.).
xmas74
(30,054 posts)He doesn't do it for necessity. He does it for sport.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)...I'm not a hunter, but understand that deer basically have no natural predators anymore, and that human hunters are necessary to avoid overpopulation and starvation. It's not just about being nice to animals. Those animals evolved being hunted and they ned to be hunted to be in balance with the ecosystem.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)
cordelia
(2,174 posts)Grave Grumbler
(160 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)There are still plenty of subsistence hunters in this country. Especially in poor, rural areas and among the Native People of Alaska.
gulliver
(13,961 posts)I wonder if he used C'mere Dear like Ted Nugent.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)gulliver
(13,961 posts)
Fla_Democrat
(2,622 posts)He probably got it through the bow show loop hole. What's with all those arrows in the first picture? Who needs that many arrows? When are we finally going to get some common sense quiver capacity reform?
madokie
(51,076 posts)You climb in a tree and sit and wait until a deer comes to you. Then when it gets close enough that you think you can kill it you draw back the bow and let the arrow fly, most times you'll miss even at that.
It takes a lot of skill to kill a deer with a bow my fucking crying ass
Equate
(256 posts)Most don't just sit in a deer stand and shoot as a deer comes by. Every bow hunter I've ever known, including me, we stalk our prey and when close enough, draw our arrow back and let fly. it takes skill to bring the animal down with the first arrow.
Any bow hunter who sits in a stand is just lazy in my opinion. I love the thrill of the hunt and the taste of the meat because I know that I harvested it myself and I did it the hard way.
madokie
(51,076 posts)most don't sit in a deer stand my aching ass. I know of no and I mean no bow hunter who stalks his prey and I doubt you do either. Its easy to be a lot of things sitting at a keyboard.
come visit me I've a brother with 500 acres of prime deer hunting land and show me how its done
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Different people hunt in different ways personally i prefer to stalk but eill use a hide in the yard sometimes.
madokie
(51,076 posts)I want to see you sneak up on a whitetail
Truth be known
Equate
(256 posts)but it can be done, the main thing is stay down wind and no sudden movements and alot of frustrating days.
Just because you don't do it doesn't mean others don't.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Equate
(256 posts)here in No. Nevada, we have alot of trees and shrubs which are a huge advantage.
I myself don't use a rifle for the big game, I much prefer the bow, much more challenging, for the game birds, I'll use either a .410 shotgun or a .22 rifle with bird shot.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)On my property i have a gorge that is a transit area for the deer that opens onto my meadow and creek. I have about five acres of wild raspberries that house shit loads of groundhogs and rabbits. Ive never bow hunted prefering the rifle shotgun and i trap a lot with snares and kill traps.
Equate
(256 posts)my property borders the Truckee River, if you step outside my backdoor, walk appox. 50', you will be at the banks of the Truckee River.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)loli phabay
(5,580 posts)As its been done for thousands of years or do you think treestands are a stoneage invention.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)I snuck within 20 yards of a bedded mule deer buck once. I even had to sneak past four does to get to him. I had taken off my boots and moved barely an inch at a time. It took four hours to close the distance.
a la izquierda
(12,326 posts)I can't walk in my own damn house without scaring the hell out of deer outside.
And I'm a small woman.
Equate
(256 posts)It makes no difference to me. I bow hunt, I don't sit in a stand, and neither do any of my hunting buddies. We stalked our prey, no exceptions.
I usually take people at their word, like I see your avatar is the VN Service Medal. I could say it's easy for you to say you served in VN, after all, you're just sitting behind a keyboard right now just like me, but I won't because I take your word that you actually did serve.
Anyway, I didn't come here to make enemies, your experiences are different than mine and let's just leave it at that.
madokie
(51,076 posts)A lot of things I might be but a keyboard commander is not one of them. What I type you can take to the bank.
Where you from? What kind of terrain is it there?
lots of deer and elk. Beautiful country, good hunting country. Born and raised in Wy.
I have no doubt you served and served honorably and deserve that avatar, I'm not questioning your service, I was just making a point on what you said.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Or even just your bow target shooting skills.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Is this a frequent topic? I have only seen it a couple of times on the board.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)We hunters get called all sorts of nasty things by people ignorant of how nature works and whose conceptions of wildlife are based on Bambi.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)xmas74
(30,054 posts)and bigoted. I'm not sure who it was against, since I'm favor of hunter's rights.
podiceptor
(2 posts)I work with wildlife and in conservation, spend a lot of time in the field on shared land with hunters, and have seen so much wretched mistreatment of wildlife in the hands of hunters -- not to mention scandalous injury rates in sports like duck hunting -- so my opinion of your sport is a lot more informed than what you suggest here. Not all of us who oppose hunting do so because we are naive to the realities. Some of us have grown to dislike the practice based on intense personal experience. The fact is, even if you yourself enjoy hunting, it's difficult to defend a sport that from the standpoint of civility, compassion and ethical consideration of other life on this planet, results in death and suffering for the sake of one's recreation. Even if the end result is meat, it's a logical fallacy to say that neutralizes any negative actions toward the wild animal. It's an ends-justifies-the-means argument, where the rationalization of acquiring meat allows for all sorts poor treatment of wildlife in between.
TheMightyFavog
(13,770 posts)Come off it. I'm from Northern Wisconsin. Hunting pics like this are nothing unusual where I come from. A lot of local Dem voters and politicians have similar pictures like this on the walls of their houses, on their desks at work and on their Facebook profiles.
And I will say this: Ryan may be a 100% USDA Grade A Fancy asshole, but he managed to harvest a couple of nice bucks there. Too bad those older bucks are no good for anything but sausage and hamburger.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)Too bad those bucks are only good for sausage and hamburger, but that is not why he killed them. He just wanted trophies.
Equate
(256 posts)How do you know that he didn't have them processed for consumption? Or maybe he donated them to a homeless shelter.
There are a lot of things wrong with him, but attacking him for hunting is stupid considering millions of american's, Dems and Repubs. alike, hunt for food.
This is a non issue.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)I read enough deer hunting stories to make me sick. It's all about trophy hunting. Hunters do not want to kill does. They only want bucks with 9-point or over antlers.
Equate
(256 posts)how do you know he didn't have it processed for consumption or donate it to a food pantry? He may very well have the antlers mounted, so what? As long as the meat didn't go to waste.
Neither you nor I know what he did with the meat, but unlike you, I''m not speculating on what he did with those bucks.
There are a lot of things that we can attack Paul Ryan on, but it's counterproductive to attack him on this.
belcffub
(595 posts)and have taken maybe 40 dear over those years... I have taken one 7 point... 1 three point... and one spike... the rest have been does... if its brown (with no spots) its down... I hunt and process my own deer... everyone I hunt with is pretty much the same... Those magazine hunters are the exception not the rule...
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Sounds like you only know a small sub-section of urban hunters.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)For the record, they could have gotten heads for trophies and processed the rest.
The willful ignorance astounds me.
Equate
(256 posts)I didn't even think of that, probably because I don't keep the heads for trophies. Wife won't let me keep them. LOL.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)xmas74
(30,054 posts)Otherwise, they look like they'd become venison summer sausage. Man, I haven't had that in years. A friend in high school's fiance was a hunter and made fantastic sausage and jerky. We'd sit in study hall and she's pass me me pieces to snack on all the time.
Sorry to derail. Carry on and thanks for the memory!
Equate
(256 posts)Venison chili, topped with grated sharp cheddar cheese and red onions on a cold night, 3 ft. of snow on the ground. My idea of a delicious meal.
xmas74
(30,054 posts)I haven't had venison in years. I don't hunt and the people I used to associate with that hunt are no longer in my life. I do remember having venison chili in the dead of winter at a friend's farm. We'd sit outside surrounding a bonfire, drinking beer and eating chili, even with snow on the ground. Why? Because we could. Bonfires are for any time of year and chili just warms you up.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)
Equate
(256 posts)stop by and I'll treat you to some venison chili and a beer. 
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)I'm originally from Vermont/New Hampshire, currently in Tucson via several other states and countries, parents and brother now in SLC. There's some good hunting north, south and east of here, but it's a lot drier than yours. Hopefully I'll get out and try to get something this year, have a Mosin-Nagant I just finished getting a scope on.
If you're ever in souther AZ, drop me a line.
Equate
(256 posts)
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Voters with their own wells and septic systems will generally support them.
agent zero
(33 posts)and he just zoomed in to pose for the picture.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)What do I get out of the deal?
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)and frankly, as long as he eats the meat or donates it to a shelter who will use it, I am okay with that.
There are a few dozens others things to hate about this guy.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Peregrine Took
(7,583 posts)Now that would be manly and show to the world the same, albeit more time consuming, bloodthirstiness.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)not many on either side is gonna think bad of him for this unless he's one of those salt lick bait n kill hunters. (that's not hunting, just killing. And is still acceptable if meat is being used)
We have much better things to hate about him than this.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)I am anti-hunting, especially trophy hunting, which is exactly what his kills are. Deer with big racks.
Peregrine Took
(7,583 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)kctim
(3,575 posts)when I went hunting for a wife, one of the criteria was a big.............Oh, you mean deer hunting. 
wasn't talking about deer
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)
sadbear
(4,340 posts)When young boys kill animals, we worry. Why do grown men get a pass?
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)You do understand theres a difference between wanton killijg and killing for food or to protect your crops. For the record i shot two rabbits this morning in my carrot beds.
sadbear
(4,340 posts)you understand the difference between killing animals for nourishment and killing them for sport.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)I figure i will wait and see what happened with the meat before i start on this one. Remember not all animals are killed for nourishment and not for sport either.
sadbear
(4,340 posts)He's not starving, has plenty of money, and food in the grocery store is aplenty. This is not about nourishment. It is about killing a sentient being for sport, plain and simple.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)sadbear
(4,340 posts)
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)The meat is better and there is some integrity associated with harvesting your own meals.
Focusing on his bow hunting will do nothing except possibly help him gain support. Attack on the other issues
sadbear
(4,340 posts)ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Hunting and the consumption of meat has no inherently political content. Those who claim otherwise are part of the problems the party has to deal with
sadbear
(4,340 posts)There are some Democrats who feel the need to kill animals for fun, too. I disagree with them as well. That doesn't change the fact that this is one of the reasons why Paul Ryan is an asshole in my opinion.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)What difference does it make ethically between deer starving because of over-population and the deer getting shot? Most places where people deer hunt is too close to human settlement for wolves, so we have to be the predators to keep the population of deer from exploding.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)
Doremus
(7,273 posts)Dying at man's hand is so much more legitimate than natural causes.
More of that superior wildlife "management" stuff I guess.
Equate
(256 posts)We hunters have ours and I will never apologize for hunting or enjoying the thrill of the hunt and enjoy consuming what I kill.
And whether you want to believe it or not, it is wildlife management.
Doremus
(7,273 posts)What specific qualities do humans possess that intrinsically make us superior to other animal species?
How has our wildlife "management" improved animal life?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)I'm not expecting you to understand that.
Do you eat the flesh of dead animals of any kind?
Doremus
(7,273 posts)famine, etc. Uh-huh. And you question MY grasp of the subject matter?
For the record, I abstain from consuming, wearing, or otherwise using animal products of any sort. I do not consider myself more important or more deserving of life than other sentient beings. Thanks for asking.
Equate
(256 posts)Sure about that? If I understand you, there have never been any of those in the history of those animals?
I really don't think you thought this through. Also, I really don't care if you don't wear, or consume any animal products, I do and I will continue to do so despite what you or others think.
Doremus
(7,273 posts)You are the one trying to make the argument that dying of starvation is somehow worse than being wounded by a bow and arrow.
I am merely pointing out that animals have been contending with death from natural causes since the first creature crawled out of the slime. It's a testament to man's incredible ego that they would think a death at their hands is superior to death by any other cause.
Equate
(256 posts)just challenging you on what you said. And dying of starvation is a hell of a lot worse than dying a quick death.
You may not like hunting, ok, no skin off my butt, but don't condemn us that do.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Those who die during droughts, floods, and other naturally occuring famines serve to strengthen their species and provide easy pickings for other species who struggle during the same times. You failed to include predation though. That would be the most important challenge facing game animals in North America today; lack of predators due to the encroachment of humans on their environment. Due to the lack of predators, some animals are able to reproduce faster than the environment can sustain their numbers. That's when the starvation comes into play. Yes, its the fault of humans, but there it is. Without human predation, there would be much more starvation than there is now.
You claim to abstain from the use of animal products of ANY sort. On that, I'll call bullshit. Plain and simple bullshit. Your brush is broad enough so as to paint the whole side of a barn in one fell swoop.
Respecting your attempt to distance yourself from constructive use of any kind of animal related product; I'm going to have to say attempt is the operative word.
Response to sadbear (Reply #71)
Post removed
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts) 
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)untouchables?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)It does seem to deny the "entertainment/sport" aspect by purchasing groceries. And if one receives pleasure or delight from the act of killing rather than, or in addition to the act of eating, one could argue a case for more/less ethical behavior...
NickB79
(20,343 posts)I've seen and participated in the raising of cattle, pigs and chickens, on a family farm no less, and they are still subjected to all sorts of pain most people never think about. Tail docking, beak clipping, tooth pulling, castration with no anesthetic, held in pens for the majority of their lives. And remember, these animals had it good compared to the factory farmed creatures that supply 95% of the meat at your local grocery store.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)loli phabay
(5,580 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)loli phabay
(5,580 posts)loli phabay
(5,580 posts)No idea why predictive sex would replace rabbits with rabbis.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)There's a difference between killing for food or protection and killing for fun.
Equate
(256 posts)Posing alongside a kill is common for hunters. There is nothing unusual about those pics, none at all.
There are alot of issues that Ryan needs to have his feet held to the fire about, this ain't one of them.
And, yes, I do pose with my kills. It ain't no big deal.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Sounds like you're doing it for fun to me. Or, perhaps you call it "sport".
Equate
(256 posts)it's challenging and rewarding. I don't hunt for "sport", I hunt for food and I use what I kill and I will also donate to our local food pantry.
I make no apologies whatsoever for hunting animals.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And do not look into industrial systems of food production. If you do, you might as well become vegan. I am as serious as a heart attack.
As long as he eats the venison, this s really a non issue. Or perhaps it is a city -country cultural clash.
Humans have been hunting for at least 100,000 years, and hominids were hunters before we came into the scene. It's is not about available fod either. The permis are also meant to control a population that woud easily get out of control otherwise. Apex predators have been removed from arge swaths, so yes, you need to do that.
xmas74
(30,054 posts)I don't like Ryan at all but I don't have a problem with the hunting, as long as it's not trophy. I don't hunt but I've known plenty in the past who do and know some who do still to this day. Most of the rural DU'ers, even the vegetarian ones, will usually count hunting as a lost cause and not worth the fight.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I live in a city, but some of us city slickers get it
xmas74
(30,054 posts)Like it, don't like it, it doesn't matter. Make any play towards hunting rights and this party will lose its rural vote.
I've known far too many good people who hunt, fish, and garden/forage to feed their families in the winter. $10 an hour doesn't go too far and this really supplements the food budget, allowing money to be saved for the kid's winter coats and for the heating bill.
You do get it but some don't. I understand it-they've just never had to see it face-to-face.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)indicates an opinion on hunting that is at best irritated tolerance and at worst outright bigorty. In any degree it appears very patronizing.
xmas74
(30,054 posts)It's here on DU that people argue it to death, some even in this thread stating that it's better to just go buy some meat wrapped in cellophane at the grocery store.
What irritates me here is that so many do not realize how many people still get their meat from hunting and some do get their primary amounts of meat that way. And one of the big things I hear in my area is that the some Dems want to take their hunting guns. As of this time for this party it's a lost cause. If we fight this then we lose rural areas.
There is nothing bigoted about it. There is no irritated tolerance. This is not patronizing. I live in a rural area full of hunters. I know any number of hunters, some of who do vote Dem. Arguing against hunting is a losing fight.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts) lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)Peregrine Took
(7,583 posts)If so its probably just for show.
Kablooie
(19,107 posts)
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Mother Nature is not a gentle and caring mother, she is a violent and abusive one who kills most of her "children".
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)....so they can experience the trill of the hunt. That entire argument is fucking lame.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Kablooie
(19,107 posts)I work for Disney so I'm obligated to shove this into any discussion of deer hunting.
xmas74
(30,054 posts)if the meat will be used to feed their family or, at the very least, donated to a food pantry/homeless shelter/battered women's shelter/etc. And it does take some skill to take down a deer with a bow.
What I don't like is the pictures posed with animals. I've never liked them. Friends from high school who really did hunt for their families food supply never took pics of the animals-they didn't understand why anyone would want to pose with their food. And they used everything they could. Bones were boiled down to make broth, even the hides were tanned. They were good kids who did what they could to help their families.
In this case, I'd bet the meat wasn't consumed. He probably has the racks mounted on a wall and, more than likely, dumped the meat. Now that's a shame-someone could have really used it.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Yup i hate the kill and dont use. Around here the local butchers will take your deer and process it and then donate if you dont want to eat it. But sometimes you just cant eat all the meat or store it if you have a major infestation.
xmas74
(30,054 posts)We have local butchers and processors here who will do the same. They will process and donate if you ask-they have a list.
I worked in a small town for the police department ten years ago. In that town they also had a list for people with too many deer that they couldn't process and for what we called the "kill list". The kill list was when deer was hit by a car and killed. The driver would call the station,tell us where it was located and when it had been hit (nothing more than an hour or so old). We would then go down the "kill list" and call the next person on the list, anytime day or night. Some on the list were charities, some were churches, one was an in-home daycare and a few were individuals. (Two of the individuals were too old to hunt anymore and would go in on the process fee, the other individuals usually had large families and very little money.) Anyway, we'd call the person on this list and they would report to the location and pick it up. It was their job to then find a processor or, in the case of a few families, process it themselves.
I'm not a fan of hunting for myself but I don't have problems with others doing it, as long as they are not wasteful. It's the waste that always makes me angry.
Doremus
(7,273 posts)That's one way to look at woodland creatures I guess.
The fact that they were here first and we are the species that keeps multiplying and stealing all the land, well, I guess that's just an inconvenient fact that we should sweep under the dead animal skin rugs, huh?
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Before we were here those deer would be being killed by wolves, and wolves do live like to live close to human settlement even if we were to let them. Without wolves and without hunting the deer population would explode and many deer would die of starvation and many would end up as roadkill.
undeterred
(34,658 posts)There are much bigger things to hold against him.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)non issue as far as I am concerned.
Humans have hunted for as long as humans have walked on this planet.
Now his budget, that is a real issue.
gulliver
(13,961 posts)I doubt Ryan got his family to choke down two deer. Ryan was hunting for one reason, and it is displayed in the OP. The pictures.
I don't have anything against deer hunting, but I also don't think it's a big accomplishment. I do notice Ryan's fancy compound bow (joked about it above) and his state-of-the-art Walmart camo. Last time I was in a Walmart buying fishing stuff, I noticed they were stocking all kinds of nasty deer bait and hormone stuff. That's a grossly perverted form of hunting in my opinion.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)but people do process the animals and FREEZE them or donate the meat.
There is more, MOST hunters and fishermen I know off do exactly what Ryan did after they bag their pray.
It is truly a rural-urban issue. I live in the city, and I know this is a non issue. There is so much more to go after him than the bow he used, or the clothes he wears, or the fact that he did like most hunters I know off, pose with what they bagged.
And as I said bellow, hunting of white tail is part of the population management strategy. You do know that in most of their territory wolves, their natural predators, are simply not there, right? So what is your other choice?
Oh and Venison is considered a delicacy by the way.
OneBlueDotBama
(1,487 posts)called deer jacking where I come from and very illegal.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Otherwise, there are several ways that picture could be entirely legal.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Where I live, deer are a problem. Far too many. People die from hitting the damned things in their car. He can come here and shoot a few as far as I am concerned.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)We were using a car ahead of us as...literally a deer detector.
Doremus
(7,273 posts)New rule: People must drive in pairs now. The lead car is the sacrificial lamb that will run into all the deer, clearing the way for the car in the rear.
This is necessary because humans have lost the ability to drive defensively and cautiously, knowing they will likely encounter a deer in or near the road at some point in the near future.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Deer jump in the middle of the road suddenly.
It is a little known reality in the flatlands though.
Sad that you make fun of things like this.
It is not defensive driving.
Don't worry, I removed myself fron both juries and alerts...so keep at it.
Doremus
(7,273 posts)Because it's so stupidly lame.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Once wolves return to wild areas you could make the argument that humans are not needed for that job. Until that happens, well we need to manage them.
You probably ( won't) should do some reading into this.
Even the hardest advocate of wild areas understands this management principle.
Personally I would not mind more wolf introduction, but that is another story.
Doremus
(7,273 posts)Believe it or not, quite a few people disagree with the basic premise that wildlife needs "managing."
Deer and other woodland creatures aren't the species that keep bulldozing more and more of the land for their own purposes and whining when the animals that were here first dare set foot upon it.
If anything needs managing, it's the human ego that believes that it is better/more deserving of life than sentient beings it considers inferior.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Carry on, the curtain has been pulled.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)big cats and wolves that used to help keep things in balance.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Mostly due to the vast monoculture of beans and corn in the midwest. There is not enough other types of cover for the large predators, plus honestly, wolves barely make sense in most of the Rocky Mountain West (I lived in wolf country in Wyoming), and there is just not that kind of habitat in Iowa, Nebraska, or the Dakotas.
Mountain lions could help, but again, protective cover is at a minimum because very last shred of tillable land has been tilled. It will get even worse now that corn is going to hit almost $9 bushel for new crop. On the flip side, with corn at that price, farmers might be more inclined to let more guys hunt deer.
My fruit trees are saved (as are my fenders)!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Into multiple areas.
Doremus
(7,273 posts)
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)What happens when any predator is taken out of the equation or they don't have a natural predator? This is really basic...why I woud not mind wolve reintroduction.
But this is really basic.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)And your ignorance of population ecology. Got it. 
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)The last time I drove across Nebraska on I-80, I swear there was a road-kill deer every five miles.
Equate
(256 posts)and it's not unusual to see herds of deer and elk alongside the Interstate, also in my front and back yards.
Peregrine Took
(7,583 posts)You know, ones that annoy you?
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Rats, snow geese, and cockroaches. Too many of them as well do to poor human habits and even poorer wildlife management. Sorry if it does not fit your bambi world, but seeing 75 whitetail deer in every corn field is simply ridiculous.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Confusious
(8,317 posts)Oh, and motherfucking Mosquitos.
Those little bastards can burn in hell.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Botany
(77,291 posts)Although I would rather see him harvest does in order to keep the population
down. Deer hunting is part of the culture of Wisconsin and their is nothing
wrong with it but ......
Ryan and Romney both hunt for the big bucks.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)I used to be in the volunteer fire/EMT company. I could tell you stories...
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)
ibegurpard
(17,081 posts)e/o/m
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)Really, of all the things...
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)truly sporting.
Doremus
(7,273 posts)Whenever I read or hear about an animal that was cruelly mistreated and/or chased down and shot, my fervent wish is that, just once, the animal could have been able to defend itself. 
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)
Faygo Kid
(21,492 posts)
ellenfl
(8,660 posts)i guess this offsets mitt the varmint killer.
ellen fl
Logical
(22,457 posts)Equate
(256 posts)Growing up, that's how we put meat on the table. Hell, it's how I put meat on our table now, even though I don't have to, and, once again, I make absolutely no apologies for it.
I don't get these people that think hunting is a cruel thing.
Logical
(22,457 posts)for sport, why not fight hand to hand?
Equate
(256 posts)I hunt for food. And posing alongside a kill is not unusual at all. It's, to me, a rite of passage and memories in my scrapbook for later in life when I can no longer participate in the hunt.
Besides, those antlers, they'll tear you a new asshole.
Logical
(22,457 posts)NickB79
(20,343 posts)Think of all the fishermen that pose with their catches.
And you know you can hunt for both sport AND meat, right? In fact, I have yet to meet a hunter that doesn't eat the meat or at least donate it to a food shelf.
Logical
(22,457 posts)need a photo of me with the person I defeated. Weird to me.
Equate
(256 posts)this is common with hunting, it's not weird to us.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)loli phabay
(5,580 posts)If you could get the deer even into the ring.
Fla_Democrat
(2,622 posts)gloves on them critters. The hooves would slice you to pieces in 'bare knuckle' bouts.. oh, and hell no on any kick boxing. 
Now, if you could get them in a Judo match..........
riverbendviewgal
(4,396 posts)I am not surprised he hunts..
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)Both my grandfathers, my dad and two of my uncles liked to go deer hunting. It's not for me, but I don't get worked up about it.
Deer are a hazard on the highway, especially at night, and they eat just about anything people grow, including our now pathetic corn crop. They seem to like baby vegetables, like inch-long green beans. YUM!
Anyway, the most important question is whether this might help him with Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Colorado or New Hampshire. It is a cultural signal. However, it has to be balanced out against cuts to Medicare, Medicaid (which keeps grandmother in the nursing home), and the mortgage interest deduction. Notice that I don't mention Florida. He's toast there now, as far as I'm concerned.
riverbendviewgal
(4,396 posts)Lots of hunters there in all the states you mention. I am sure there are democratic hunters too.
I live in the north part of Ontario. Lots of hunters and fishermen. Had deer and bears in my last house's yard. I never hunted but got my PAL....and never got around to get my long gun.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)Equate
(256 posts)amandabeech
(9,893 posts)Equate
(256 posts)I've had alot of my pre-conceptions torn apart here since I joined. It's quite disturbing. 
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)Equate
(256 posts)for the most part, every one has been polite even when we disagree on a subject.
Thanks for the welcome.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)
valerief
(53,235 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)women who have died from botched abortions. Charming fellow.
sure he will.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)is such a defender of his rights to his own resources, he doesn't seem to have any problem taking the life of a being that worked for its own life and resources too. Seems to be a bit of a contradiction.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Please restrict your diet to raw minerals and sunlight.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)But at least realize you are not exempt from nature's law of resource interdependence. Ultimately, sunlight is free and everything on earth feeds off sunlight so let's not act like we've earned everything we've got. We haven't. Some of what we bring in belongs to our neighbors.
jwhitesj
(168 posts)But it's legal and there are a lot of people in this country that identify with that behavior. These pictures will have very little effect because people who would not vote for someone because of these activities will not have voted for him anyways, and people that vote for him because of those activities will vote for him anyways.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)Equate
(256 posts)There is some of that but for the most part, we hunt for food, not trophies, and who cares if the antlers are mounted on the wall? If the meat is processed for eating or donated to a food pantry, why should you care?
riverbendviewgal
(4,396 posts)Hunting for the meat, fur and antlers is good...There are limits on hunters. Too many of the animals can be bad for them, leading to starvation.
Hunting can provide a living for many people up here who provide guiding, lodging, and supplies.
To me this is sensible, rather than people who have automatic guns for target practice.
DTinAZ
(346 posts)Obama has already referred to Romney's ideas as "Robin Hood in Reverse" idea, and now his Veep pick turns out to be an archer...how perfect. BTW, given the "robbery" aspect of "Robin Hood," I'm suggesting "RobMe / Ruin 2012" as a play on all of this.
sofa king
(10,857 posts)
I wish I could do a better job, but you get the idea, and someone will be along shortly with a better version, I am sure.
Incitatus
(5,317 posts)
Grave Grumbler
(160 posts)loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Equate
(256 posts)didn't have antlers.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts) PavePusher
(15,374 posts)If you're going to play the fool, at least don't cantilever your uncoverd gluteous maximus.
Grave Grumbler
(160 posts)
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Makes him look like a Regular Joe.
Thats the part I don't care for.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)but that reads far to easily as a comment against "regular Joe's".
I suggest a little editing...
uppityperson
(116,017 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)deer with a bow. It is extremely challenging, because you have to shoot from up close, not far like with a rifle.
Doesn't mean I have to like Ryan, though.
belcffub
(595 posts)this will get him votes in country areas... going after him for it will cost us votes in those same areas...
TransitJohn
(6,937 posts)n/t
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)As well as a lot of Dems who hunt.
DLine
(397 posts)The only thing I dislike about the pictures above is that its Paul Ryan in them. Otherwise I dont see a problem with it. Those are some good looking bucks. Had I taken them I would have probably taken a picture too.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I can't tell you what I'd like to do with his body.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)And seriously, comments like that about elected government personnel are no better than any fucktarded Repub saying the same type of thing about President Obama.
Let's not become the opposition, eh?
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)He is also revolting in many other ways. And I don't care if I am offending the opposition. Are you sure you are on the right board?
Equate
(256 posts)Hunters do this, so what?
For me, it's a rite of passage and great pics for my scrapbook.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I find hunting revolting unless you absolutely need it for food.
DLine
(397 posts)I enjoy hunting and salt water fishing. It isn't that I enjoy killing either. For most it is the joy of stocking them and their families freezer with delicious meat they themselves harvested. The same goes for fishing. I enjoy the sport behind finding the fish and then what it takes to get them to bite and then once they bite, getting them in the boat. What I don't want to eat goes right back in the water.
As far as deer specifically, they are becoming more and more over populated and with fewer natural predators to control their population, one could easily argue that by man hunting them they are doing the deer population as whole a favor.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)By equating us with Mr. Randoid
Autumn
(48,954 posts)ugly republican.
NickB79
(20,343 posts)All the people here concerned about Ryan hunting for sport and not meat must not realize that shooting a deer and only taking it's head as a trophy is a crime punishable by fines and loss of hunting privileges, right? You must take the meat as well as the head and hide.
For example, here is a case from Colorado: http://wildlife.state.co.us/RulesRegs/LawEnforcement/CurrentCases/Pages/CurrentCases.aspx
DNR officers do not take this sort of thing lightly.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)RZM
(8,556 posts)So Paul Ryan hunts . . . yeah . . .
Trying to give a shit but it's just not happening. Hardly anybody else cares either.
But people do care about cutting benefits, so that's probably where the focus should be.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)We have a hunting tradition. What he is doing here, posing with these deer, is seen as a respectful and part of the ritual or the hunt for many in my state. I dislike him but outside of a rather distinct minority in my state, this is a non issue. Even a bit of "proof he's a regular guy" kind of thing.
ForgoTheConsequence
(5,185 posts)If certain people in the party keep putting down hunters, rural americans, people who don't live on the coasts you're doing nothing but living up to the rights claim that our party is elitist. I'm going to see the president on monday, I hunt, I fish, I'm a liberal. If you want this party to be only upper middle class academics, progressive socialites and elitists you're never going to win another national election.
The backbone of this party has to be working families, and guess what? A lot of working families hunt and fish and get a little dirty.
They may not fit in at a 5,000 dollar a plate fundraiser but they vote just the same.
Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)
Post removed
SlimJimmy
(3,251 posts)big deal to those of us in parts of the country where it's common.
WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)
Historic NY
(40,019 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)like this in WI alone. Start talking other states and...
Equate
(256 posts)because we pose with our kills?
Are you kidding me?
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Not the same as a serial killer, but sick in its own way.
Equate
(256 posts)and mine is that there is no problem with posing over a kill, and I will make no apologies nor will I feel the slightest guilt.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)I have family members who hunt. Now I don't know Ryan's situation the hunters I know use what they kill. I actually enjoy eating venison.
If he's not obeying hunting laws or wasting what he kills then I have a problem.
Other than that who cares? We have plenty of other issues to nail Ryan on other than this.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)bobthedrummer
(26,083 posts)Chronic Wasting Disease (Wikipedia entry)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_wasting_disease
flvegan
(66,258 posts)Killing animals.
Vehement explanations and apologies aside.
ForgoTheConsequence
(5,185 posts)Dairy or eggs? You're such a better person that most. Congrats.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Who knew the mighty hunter was such a liberal ideal?
ForgoTheConsequence
(5,185 posts)No one is apologizing for Ryan. Lots of liberals hunt, cry about it.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)What's your point?
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Equate
(256 posts)what's your point?
ForgoTheConsequence
(5,185 posts)And if you eat meat or factory farmed dairy and egg products you have no right to judge. A hunted deer leads a much better life than a dairy cow on a factory farm, or chicken laying eggs in a tiny coup.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)I'm no hypocrite.
Equate
(256 posts)but you made the accusation that there were alot of Ryan apologists here, show one post of that happening, and I don't mean our support for hunting, I mean supporting or apologizing for his politics.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)And their whole argument seems to be "OMG, YOU ARE KILLING BAMBI!!!1!!11!", showing that they are naive and think nature is kind and benevolent, a view based on Romanticism and fluffy New Age Neo-Pagan nonsense.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts).....shooting a deer, or,in my opinion eating meat when their are other viable sources of protein is cruel.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)There are a lot of ignorant and naive people, mostly city folks whose conception of nature is based on Bambi, bashing hunters in this thread.
Bashing hunters is a perfect way to scare rural people away from the Democratic Party.
RZM
(8,556 posts)And that's because nobody here cares for his politics. But many people (myself included) don't give a shit that he hunts. I care about his politics. I don't give a shit how he spends his free time.
He can hunt all he likes and I don't care. I care what he does on the floor of the house.
RZM
(8,556 posts)
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Not so. That's bad form, Joe.
rad51
(89 posts)
Kerry
Big Ed
Richardson posing
Nelson and Schumer
Pres. Clinton
LARED
(11,735 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)
MatthewStLouis
(921 posts)Knowing Dick Cheney likes to hunt caged game, one wonders if Ryan is that kind of "hunter"?
If he is, shout it from the rooftops, else stop carrying GOP water with this wedge issue. Lots of people hunt. Democrats and Republicans.
Alduin
(501 posts)Killing animals with a bow.
If he really wants to prove he's a man and to make it a fair fight, he should hunt the animals with nothing but his hands. Then let's see if he's able to pose with dead animals.
Equate
(256 posts)And then come back here and tell us what a man/woman you were, I mean if your still alive or out of the hospital yet. 
Bow hunting is very challenging, it takes alot of skill and patience and the kill is rewarding, especially when I sit down with my wife and we have a couple of delicious venison steaks cooked on the BBQ, and I and the hundreds of thousands of other hunters make no apologies for hunting.
There are a lot of things to go after Ryan for, but not this.
Alduin
(501 posts)I'm not a neanderthal and prefer to buy my food.
I'll attack Ryan on this if I feel like it, fyi.
Equate
(256 posts)Got it.
BTW, have you seen how those factory farm animals are treated? The drugs they pump them full of? You can keep your store bought meat, veggies, eggs, I prefer to hunt my own meat, grow my own veggies, and have my chickens lay eggs that I eat.
Go ahead, attack Ryan on this, your in the minority and all you do is piss off alot of rural Democrat hunters like me.
It's a non issue and should be left alone.
I'm not a neanderthal either and your description of hunters, Dem. and Repub. alike, is offensive and you really should apologize, but I'm not holding my breath.
Alduin
(501 posts)I don't.
Thanks for playing.
Equate
(256 posts)And I will continue to hunt for my food. I don't trophy hunt and I donate some of my kill to the local homeless shelters who are grateful for the donations.
Alduin
(501 posts)
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)He is simply pro-death.
Equate
(256 posts)rl6214
(8,142 posts)A good majority in WI are as well.
judy70
(8 posts)From what I have been hearing about Paul Ryan, I am beginning to think he has masculinity problems.