General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTrump is FUCKED
Last edited Fri Sep 14, 2018, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)
When Manafort was caught tampering with witnesses, along with the evidence revealed in the indictments, as well as the indictments of the others whove already pled guilty, I knew that Manafort Was Fucked.
Then again, during the Trial when Manafort's defense was focused solely on discrediting Gates, but the documents, with revision history intact, said otherwise, I could affirm how truly fucked Manafort was.
Now, given the others whove recently given grand jury testimony and who are cooperating, and given that Manafort is *fully* cooperating, I can conclusively say, Trump is FUCKED.
Who above Manafort would they need? From the evidence already revealed and from Popadopolouss public statements, its safe to say Sessions is fucked without Manaforts cooperation. The same is likely true for Trump Jr and anyone else who was in the Trump Tower meeting.
Manafort is the money guy. Recently it was discovered that the FBI was investigating suspicious transactions immediately following the Trump Tower meeting. We must also not forget the special private network connection setup between the Trump Organization and the Russian Alpha Bank during the campaign. Manafort can answer all the unanswered questions surrounding these transfers of money and private network connections to Russian banks. And ultimately, as Trump inadvertently admitted, Manafort can implicate Trump in all of it, to the very level of Trump committing Treason.
Dems will take the House back. That means when all this comes out, Trump *will* face impeachment. The only question remains is are there enough GOP Senators who will vote to convict. I suspect that the evidence will be damning enough and Muellers report will be convincing to the point that it would be political suicide for those Senators not to convict.
Trump. Is. Fucked.
asiliveandbreathe
(8,203 posts)names have NOT been changed...they are ALL effin' guilty...
PearliePoo2
(7,768 posts)We need a champagne smilie! Seriously, how can we get one?
K&R
ginnyinWI
(17,276 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Hekate
(90,550 posts)brush
(53,740 posts)Manafort's cooperation is shaking up the trump campaign ilike a New Year's eve reveller shaking up a bottle of champagnethey both eventually pop and spew.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)Grammy23
(5,810 posts)I hope the leakers at the White House spill the beans on the chaos going on at the White House right now as they scramble to come up with explanations/excuses. This is too delicious to have to wait for another book to come out. We wanna know now if tRump has pooped his pants yet.
Or if his head exploded all over the Resolute Desk.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)even not poopey pants doing the leaking..
Moostache
(9,895 posts)Trump is taking the poop from his pants and smearing it all over the Resolute desk...or flinging it at the walls and doors and anyone who enters the Oval Office.
Once he is removed, the clean-up of the Oval Office is going to be a major renovation project for sure...
Grammy23
(5,810 posts)That will haunt my dreams. Or produce nightmares. Gee, thanks.
Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)and seeing how much he LOVES to see himself on TV and in all the newspapers it is iffy, will he STILL be charged with any crimes? He should be, certainly, but WILL he be? Still can not save the "kids" from their misdeeds.
ginnyinWI
(17,276 posts)He'll go faster and faster until he explodes.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Pacifist Patriot
(24,652 posts)Hekate
(90,550 posts)...a lot.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,652 posts)Grasswire2
(13,565 posts)Frank Figluzzi (sp)
Jeremy Bash
etc.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)Our country will remain FUCKED.
Moostache
(9,895 posts)But the longer he stays in office, the more damage he inflicts, so best to rip off the band-aid and get started ASAP!
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,121 posts)radical noodle
(7,997 posts)He understands the process of governing and can easily make things worse.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)As long as only 33% are full of shit, we can survive.
olegramps
(8,200 posts)I know that the Republican vote is solid and unwavering at this point and doubt that anything could change it short of child molestation. The Democrats are far less solid in their support, so it can be really dependent on the Independents. I am hoping that the Dems will show up. They sure haven't in most non-presidential off year elections.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)And Dems will show up. We are effing pissed, as every recent poll shows.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)The WaPo's article just now doesn't mention Pence, but Manafort was heavily involved in helping Trump accept him as VP. I don't believe for a minute that Manafort chose him; was anyone else involved outside family/campaign staff? Koch agents?
In any case, Pence was there during the Trump-Manafort-Kremlin mess. Will Manafort's testimony support Pence's plausible deniability for everything and anything?
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Flynns cooperation will take down Pence. Pence was picked by Manafort yes, but why? So Pence could coordinate the other half of the deal with Russia through Flynn. Flynn was caught lying to investigators. Lying about communications with Russia about dropping sanctions. Orchestrated by Pence who was in charge of the Transition team.
Theres a reason why Flynns sentencing has been delayed. And we have heard absolutely nothing about this part of the investigation. The shit is about to hit the fan.
ScratchCat
(1,977 posts)I sure hope you are right about that. Sounds very possible. People are forgetting about Flynn.
FakeNoose
(32,577 posts)Mueller has been playing this like a pro. He is a pro!
Also I think he's getting under-the-table cooperation from Sessions.
When this is all over, I only want one thing: I want to see the full, un-redacted Steele dossier.
Is that too much to ask?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)a member of the Christian right and a far-right authoritarian conservative whose ideology combines service to god through the monied classes. The latter didn't choose Trump, but if he became president he would almost certainly be succeeded by his vice president.
Pence already had a solid relationship with the Kochs, who already were considering running him for president one of these times.
We've always wondered WHY a governor whose reelection was endangered but far from lost would become Trump's VP when, on the face of it, it promised to leave him humiliated and unemployed, and his reputation destroyed in Trump's dumpster fires.
I think Pence met with people and agreed to run, but what he was promised by whom...?
Except that a how-level hired man, way below Pence's stature btw, didn't choose Trump's VP and make him an offer more attractive than being reelected as Indiana's governor. I break down at that idea. What would Pence do 4 months later after they lost?
Putin making him an offer he too attractive to refuse seems very unlikely also. Pence had people who control half the wealth in America behind him in the Koch alliance. Why commit what is commonly called treason when undoubtedly at least one of his meetings to discuss his future was with his own American patrons?
This is mostly speculation, of course, but great wealth means great power. The Koch alliance had to decide whether to invest in electing Trump, and It seems very likely that their own information sources had discovered early on that Putin was interfering to cause as much trouble as possible for the Democrats who posed a grave threat to his personal and hegemonic plans. Was there any coordination of interests, perhaps through very careful cutouts?
And that's where I leave off speculating. Except to point out that Hillary was right long before about a giant right wing conspiracy. Scalia spoke at Koch etcetera events openly now and then, but it seems very plausible that conspiracy was behind many of those trips Scalia took to secret gatherings like the one he died at also.
Oh, forgot to toss in: Once Trump's initial cabinet was installed, a "designated survivor" event would have very likely left a Koch ally as the survivor, that's how many cabinet members had significant associations with them. #2 Ryan, #3 Hatch, #4 Tillerson, others, and of course #1.
Hekate
(90,550 posts)I just figure Mueller keeps pulling threads, and at least one is going to be tied to Pence's sweater.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)might his chances unravel?
Hekate
(90,550 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Fla Dem
(23,585 posts)Is he any better than Trump? Maybe just a little more rational, but more of a RW ideologue. 2 more years of Pence would it be any better? But let's say Pence knows they've got dirt on him too so he refuses to step up to the Presidency and in fact resigns. Next up is Paulie Ryan, Speaker of the House. I really don't see anything improving until 2021, even if we take the House in November..
Hekate
(90,550 posts)...literally and figuratively, given that he is retiring to count his money.
I don't know who's next up to be GOP Speaker, but it won't matter if we have a Democratic Speaker of the House.
The timeline is all -- no matter how the election turns out, the GOP rules the House until January.
Fla Dem
(23,585 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)The Republicans have to keep control of the senate to continue stacking the courts.
But of course this is much bigger than just who's in national office now, including Trump.
A huge goal behind the "Article V" constitutional convention movement, being systematically developed by ALEC and other right wing groups, is, of course, to repeal direct election of senators. They would once again be appointed by mostly business-dominated power groups at the state level, a huge shift of power to the few.
It's unclear that any one group would be able to control what came out of such a convention, though. Right-wing billionaires, religious right groups, and white nationalists/social conservatives all intend to prevail. SCOTUS does not have the power, of course, to rule any outcomes of a constitutional convention unconstitutional, no matter how extreme or bizarre. It would be the new constitution.
They claim to have 28 of the 34 states needed to call the convention. On the plus side, just this summer North Carolina rejected joining this "convention of states." They'll try again in 2019.
As said, this threat is from over for the next few decades. Unless it turns out in retrospect that we are leaving the conservative era that began in the late 1970s and entering a new liberal one.
Voltaire2
(12,957 posts)The disaster of a Trump removal will knock the Republican Party down at least for an election or two.
GetRidOfThem
(869 posts)was Melania's choice...
Mrs. Overall
(6,839 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Grasswire2
(13,565 posts)berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)and we need 2/3rds of the Senate to convict.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)the 2019 Senate.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)we will win 2/3 of the senate this election (which I don't believe is possible).
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)With the pace of information being released, along with Mr. Mueller's report being issued, there will be more than 2/3 who would convict. However, as that approaches, Trump will resign -- to spend more time with Ivanka -- as he is a cowardly pup. His past record in court cases follow a similar path: he makes a lot of threatening noise, then backs down with his tail between his legs. Indeed, there is nothing else between his legs.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)I believe the evidence and the case are so damning that we'll get enough GOP to convict... still, I have been surprised by the complacency of some Senators, especially Graham.
Keep in mind, if impeachment comes, we'll lose some of the Senators who would likely convict (Flake, Corker).
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)However, I believe that in this instance, he has been tasked with trying to stabilize the unstable Trump, by saying supportive things about him publicly. This allows him to exercise more influence -- at least in theory -- in a dangerous time for democracy. I believed that to be true even before Woodward's book came out; the book provides information that helps build a foundation for that belief. I'm not expressing agreement with what he is attempting, but I understand why he has suddenly started kissing Trump's fat ass.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)#NRAROUBLES
olegramps
(8,200 posts)blaze
(6,344 posts)I know I shouldn't laugh at that. I do not approve of violence.
But still.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)Let's say that Democrats pull off a miracle and win 51 seats in the Senate, in addition to taking the House by at least 10 or more seats.
They hold hearings and morons like Don Jr, Eric Trump, Jared, etc melt under the pressure of testimony and either make major gaffes and/or stab each other in the back.
Public support for Trump drops further - independents unite against him and even some GOP support peels away. A few GOP members of Congress are more openly critical of Donny Dollhands as well.
Mueller then delivers his first report to Congress detailing multiple charges of Obstruction of Justice and Witness Tampering against Trump and also Perjury and Conspiracy against several below him.
Impeachment hearings commence and more information comes to light causing more Republicans to turn against Trump.
Trump tries pardoning himself of any and all crimes, but Mueller (or somebody in Congress) sues to block and Trump loses SCOTUS decision and he cannot pardon himself. Support plummets for Trump...
empedocles
(15,751 posts)3Hotdogs
(12,323 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,779 posts)The scenario that might work the best after this is for Pelosi to resign as Speaker with Adam Schiff becoming Speaker and next in line of succession following Pence's removal too. Then Pelosi reinstalled as Speaker. But I don't know how Nancy P would feel about whether she be Prez.
Liberalagogo
(1,770 posts)Volaris
(10,266 posts)Crawl back under their rocks for 50 years so we can get some real work done and bring this damn nation ( and the world that follows our lead) FINALLY into the 21st century.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,102 posts)to blindly believe that they Democrats will push for impeachment is not historically based. How else is the phrase "keep our powder dry" in our lexicon?
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Manafort is pleading to some huge crimes and giving the highest level of cooperation. Imagine what crimes are worse than that that they need his cooperation for. Now imagine what kind of report that would look like going to Congress. If the Dems have control, there is no way they will not impeach.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)helpisontheway
(5,004 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,955 posts)It may require legislation from Democratic control of both chambers and the Presidency.
bucolic_frolic
(43,044 posts)All actions since the illegitimacy began deserve a thorough review, especially if the Insane Congress proves to be tainted with illegitimacy too. A regular Congress could review, revote, confirm or deny. But something should be done to heal the wounds of illegitimacy.
sandensea
(21,596 posts)But if Democrats regain control of both (even just one) house, the Cheeto regime will simply become untenable.
At that point, I wouldn't put it past some Republican to poison Cheeto - in hopes that a Pence regime will "appear" more presidential and legitimate (with Big Media'a cooperation, of course).
lame54
(35,262 posts)Blue Owl
(50,256 posts)SHRED
(28,136 posts)Javaman
(62,500 posts)and that is the million dollar question but not for obvious reasons.
I believe many are tied up in this fucked up mess as well.
if they are, will they even be allowed to vote?
this will be interesting.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Pres. Turd bigly has a sad today.
world wide wally
(21,738 posts)matt819
(10,749 posts)With this plea and cooperation in the bag, I wonder if the time is now right for subpoenas for Sessions, Don Jr., Eric, Ivanka, and Jared? After all, who's left?
onit2day
(1,201 posts)Trump already. 2 SC picks, Two massive tax breaks, deregulation of coal, etc. This PINO replaced the republicon party which should now be called Trumplicons ...a cult of sociopaths. The damage done proves elections have consequences which are hard to correct
Dopers_Greed
(2,640 posts)Based on where we are now, Trump will likely lose if he runs in 2020.
I think that Pence could potentially win, and if he takes over after these midterms, he'd be able to serve until 2028.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Repubs will want to have a Repub president so if they see impeachment is imminent, they would get Ryan in there now vs. a Democratic Speaker of the House after the new Congress is seated.
Dopers_Greed
(2,640 posts)He's retiring at the end of the year.
I doubt both Trump and Pence could be removed by then, even if impeachment started full-steam tomorrow.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)He failed miserably as a Governor in Indiana and would not have won a second term.
Many of Pences programs were canceled out after he took the VP job and the new IN governor took over.
thegoose
(3,115 posts)He's never had to face up to his corrupt shit his entire worthless life. Maybe now? It'd be so good....
C Moon
(12,208 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Manafort may have some things to give up about financial fraud, but #1...that may have nothing to do with Russian conspiracy, and #2...that may have nothing to do with obstruction of justice.
Manafort may not have anything to give up regarding Trump at all. Manafort & Trump don't seem to have known each other well before Manafort joined the campaign.
So I wouldn't get excited about this as it relates to Trump. We'll just have to see.
Pride cometh before the....you know.
Paladin
(28,243 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)fucked without manafort's cooperation?"
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)And Popadopolis's public statements have implicated Sessions was aggressively in favor of pursuing the information held by the Russians. If that's true and that information has already been corroborated by Mueller's team, then they are only keeping Sessions in office because they need him to protect the investigation. In fact, Session may already be cooperating with them as a witness which explains the urgency in the Trump admin to get rid of him. If that's the case, as others have noted above, Graham may be publicly stroking Trump's ego while he works behind the scenes to support Sessions.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)When you can't remember it all! Everything you wrote makes total sense...but how does manafort fit in related to sessions?
Bottom line sessions is not innocent. He is either cooperating with Mueller or someone somehow will entangle him.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)So that means Manafort's cooperation if for bigger fish... and I can only think of two bigger fish...
Unrepentant Fenian
(1,078 posts)👍
ffr
(22,665 posts)That's the only way this happens globally. Mueller's investigation will have twice the merit when dems retake the People's Chambers and have representation again.
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)sellitman
(11,605 posts)I just don't think any GOP Congress critter or Senator will EVER vote to Impeach. I don't care how damning the evidence. If they have gone this far they have no morals. The rule of law isn't as important as the ability to impose their will on the judiciary and the tax codes and our way of life.
jimlup
(7,968 posts)The GOP is in a state of reality denial and expect that it will continue. They will not vote to impeach and Trump will remain. The nightmare will continue and a wounded crazy lion is worse than just a crazy lion.
I don't how this nightmare will really end. At least if we can retake the house we will gain some check on this power. We MUST retake the house. It is drop dead serious!
RainCaster
(10,831 posts)That treasonous toddler needs to be shown to his "base" for what he is. That sumbich should go to prison for a long time.
nvme
(860 posts)Look at how they are slithering around the Kavinaugh the Rapist. they are goose stepping along with Trump at every turn, so they may not vote to convict if there is an impeachment trial. that is a high threshold to get 12-17 Republicans to turn.
duforsure
(11,884 posts)To turn on him , like Malanie, and 2 or more of his kids , and ghouliani. Its just a matter of time . Everyone hates him.
pansypoo53219
(20,952 posts)Jersey Devil
(9,874 posts)plus, if I had to guess, failure to declare income on a lot of the money laundering he was doing with the Russians. I am sure Mueller has all this info and is busy checking it.
pansypoo53219
(20,952 posts)ut oh
(891 posts)they should annul his presidency. That way we should be able to unwind Garbage... errrr Gorsuch from the Supreme Court (and Kavanagh assuming the GOP pushes him through).
Eliot Rosewater
(31,106 posts)Since Mueller wont indict and neither will the house unless we take it back
How is he fucked?
If we take the House but not 66 seats in the Senate, how is he fucked?
Serious question, I am as mad as anybody, more so maybe, but for him to be fucked the GOP have to be patriots, to some extent.
Right? Wrong? Help me celebrate with you. Explain how?
Faux pas
(14,644 posts)UNBRIDLED GLEE
elocs
(22,541 posts)Those who gloat and dance last gloat and dance best.
Remember Fitzmas.