I lived with a sociopath and liar. They really really believe what they say.

[jodymarie aimee]

All this time trying to analyze Trump...wasted time. I lived with a sociopath and liar. They are not wired like us, there is no reforming them or changing them. They really really believe what they say. When Trump says 6 died in Puerto Rico he believes that. And they believe they are superior....do not question him...

I used to watch Peter study people so he would know how to react like a normal person, when he had to impress someone....get out of a jam....but Trump never had to do that, his $$ always bailed him out.

The pundits (and we citizens)have to stop 2nd guessing him...what will he do....why did he say that....how can he get away with that....because America elected him President SOMEHOW....he is a damaged excuse of a human being. All we can do is VOTE and get out alive and hope to God Mueller puts him where he belongs. The rest is wasted air...life is too short to give this guy too much of our thought, emotion, anger.

I do mourn how generations are growing up now learning it is ok to lie and hate 1/2 the country, tho..we took our country for granted.

[PJMcK]

1. Great insights, jodymarie

thanks for sharing your experiences.

Peace.

[Merlot]

2. "All this time trying to analyze Trump...wasted time."

I agree, and like you, I've had experience with this personality disorder that is trumpt. So I actually don't waste a lot of time hating him or reacting to him. But for the people who don't understand what he is, it's a whole new frontier for them. In a way I can envy them, but at the same time I see their learning curve.

And I agree the pundits and citizens give to much space to "oh, look what he did, what he said, what he tweeted." None of that is important, what's important is rule of law, and how or democracy is at a tipping point. Focus on that, the rest is a distraction.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[yonder]

4. +1.

and the OP too.

[Sherman A1]

5. +1

To Your +1.

[llmart]

16. +1 to yours also.

I, too was married to a man with personality disorders, albeit not as off the charts as Trump's. I agree with the poster that when you finally learn and understand the behaviors, it is so much easier to spot them. I never really knew what to call what I was living with until I spent a lot of time learning about NPD. Nothing is ever their fault and the world is always out to get them. They are suspicious of everyone and have extreme trust issues.

As jodymarie says, they're really not worth expending any of your own emotional energies on trying to figure them out. This guy will be gone one way or another and the country can hopefully move on. We just need to focus on gaining control of the house.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

7. Not wasted, but def agree with conclusion: No changing tRump; he is baked-in, no introspection. . nt

[Pepsidog]

3. John Dean's Conservatives without Conscience is a great book that discusses the psychology that

drives the sociopath Republicans, the group think mentality and constant feedback loop that underlies their demented thinking. It’s very disconcerting. My view is until this country deals with its Fox Problem and the right wing media nothing will change.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

10. Funny, I just said the same about fux spews on a different thread.

It’s established fact that propaganda is a highly effective weapon.

[Pepsidog]

12. Sure is. I am stunned by the level of ignorance especially in DC lawmakers.

I think many republican lawmakers believe the propaganda coming from Fox. They are truly ignorant, living in a bubble. Crazy town

[Liberalagogo]

6. FYI

America did NOT elect the Shithole.

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. +1000000! And tRUMP knows that. It's why he's so defensive about the election #'s. Like, who is

he trying to convince, us or himself. And tRUMP's just a spoiled brat that never grew up. A school yard bully.

[OMGWTF]

36. Traitor Tot Lost by TEN MILLION Votes if you include the third-party votes

[Tucker08087]

8. Same here.

Borderline Petsonality Disorder, made worse by alcohol and then prescription pain meds, and then I really don’t know. It was bad. Everything was someone’s fault. He could never see that he wasn’t a victim. Smashed my face in the wall? Well, our son talked back to him and it’s because I never parent. (I did 90% of the parenting.) Sometimes I didn’t even know the why. Eventually, I took my son and checked him out of school and drove for two days to live on an unregistered boat on a river in the south. All cash. No tracking. No GPS. No use of Fass Pass on highways. Even my family was not permitted to know where I was. Dangerous for them and for us. The police helped me here and when I reached the final destination, the police there helped me as well. They also checked us against photo ID, because child services was not sure that we had gotten out. In other words, they thought we had been killed and dumped. Still he found us. (I’m a chemo patient-oh yes, another thing that was my fault and caused him great anger) and he managed to sweet talk someone into giving the place of my next treatment. Child services called and told us to get on the move. He even knew the name of the boat.
I see a lot of my ex in Trump, except my ex was incredibly intelligent, talented, witty and devious, and Trump doesn’t have there character traits.
By the way: just a self serving plug: I’ve been posting poetry about this time and my time healing self. Please check it out in the poetry forum!

[Tucker08087]

9. Man!

I just cannot give a short response! I really do try!

[Tess49]

11. This is terrifying. Did you get out again, after he found you? n/t

[Tucker08087]

34. Yes. Moved again.

And then eventually he attempted suicide. (This sounds cold, but I think he never really intended to die. His suicide letter was full of lies, but the psych people tell me that they eventually believe their own lies, so I could be wrong.) That finally allowed the police to take custody, and after being hospitalized, they transferred him to a psych ward. Then I came home. I can’t even begin the describe what I found, but it was clear he had completely lost his mind. The day he learned I was home, he walked right out of the asylum. They called to warn me that he got on a bus headed South. That would be my direction. I called the police who said he had to actually DO something for them to help. My family told me I was overreacting and needed therapy. That is until he showed up several hours later and tried to break down the front door. He was arrested and has numerous warrants for violating the restraining order, but all evidence seems to show that he has left the state and is now in a state that will not extradite. I try to live my life, but it’s very hard to not always look over my shoulder.

[Tess49]

35. Sorry you have to live like this. My anxiety would be through the roof! n/t

[Tucker08087]

38. Well, I certainly suffer from PTSD!

[Tess49]

40. I can only imagine. Hope he stays far away from you. n/t

[Texin]

48. You're never really safe until they're dead and buried. Be vigilant.

[BigmanPigman]

13. I lived with a sociopath too.

There is a difference between a narcissist and a sociopath. The fucking moron is both and a sadist. One of the psychiatrists who signed Duty To Warn with over 50 others in his profession confirmed this. The sociopath would lie about stuff so easily, it was second nature to him. Also, he would lie about stuff that he didn't even need to lie about, like saying he was in Alabama once when it didn't matter. When asked to prove it not only would he stick with the lie but he'd make up another one without batting an eye. I was seeing a therapist since this was causing problems and I was told that "sociopaths are everywhere, just look at the government". That has come back to haunt me often since the moron has turned the W House into The Bellevue Mental Ward.

Here are two great articles by psychologists...
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder

Sociopath
https://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

He is both to the Nth degree. Add bigot, misogynist and racist and you have one big walking nut job sitting in the W House. What will he do when he becomes more and more cornered?

[eppur_se_muova]

14. Hopefully, one day we'll hear those read aloud into the Congessional Record ...

... as part of an impeachment trial in the Senate.

[Hekate]

19. What will he do when cornered? Start WWIII? I am hoping we get thru the next week...

...since Manafort flipped like an Olympic gymnast.

Seriously.

[BigmanPigman]

22. Right now he is using a hurricane as a distraction

from Manafort and Kavanaugh. When his kids get indicted, look out! Even politicians and pundits have said for over a year that they seriously are worried that he would start a war as a distraction. We know he is UN-American so no love lost for his country. It will be about saving his hide and nothing else will matter. If he can start a war with a tweet, even the NY Times Mr. Anonymous won't be able to stop him at 4 AM when he is still awake and tweeting.

[worstexever]

17. K & R

[Wellstone ruled]

18. Shortly after Dipstick Donnie did the

Escalator thing,then I knew who he reminded me of. Grew up around a fellow that was a Narcissist with a pure ugly Temper. Sad to say,as a kid,did not understand what the heck was with this Guy,just learned to watch my actions and learned how to placate Him when he went it a rage. Sad to say,he would never blow off with in earshot of his Mother,Gamma would have sent him packing to the Spirit World or worse.

Fully understand what anyone who has put up with any type of human caused violence against another Human. Still have a bum ear from the flying five pound hammer that hit the Tractor wheel I was working on. One of many. All this stopped the day I picked him up and hung him by his bib overalls on the Barn Wall after one of his Tirades . Never again did he raise his voice to me or anyone else.

[kwassa]

20. Trump doesn't understand Trump.

and understanding doesn't even matter to him. He has no insight into himself, only coping mechanisms.

I honestly think he was a victim of abuse himself, and many who grew up in that situation become abusers themselves, because they only know two roles: victim or abuser. His speech reflects this; he deifies strength, and hates weakness, real or perceived. He sees the universe as full of winners and losers. Winners are measured by their wealth and power. They deserve to rule. Losers are to be stomped on, for being losers.

Trump simply needs to be opposed, and his lies, policy inconsistencies, and incompetence need to be pointed out over and over in a rational manner. It will have it's effect.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

26. To me, the most frightening thing about psychopaths of Trump's type is....

that they will try to execute revenge on anyone that has ever crossed them until the day they draw their last breath.

And, the worst case scenario for us is when those types gain powerful positions (as they often do) and have thousands of followers to execute their evil plans and to carry out that revenge for them.

As you implied, the best way to deal with them is to apply maximum pressure from many directions until they simply implode. However, with tRump, this is one psychiatric breakdown I don't want to witness because of the damage he may inflict in the process. I just wish he would quietly go away - to jail, to Siberia, just go away.

[Canoe52]

21. At times I feel I'm reliving my marriage

Ex was borderline personality disorder, which means they are somewhere between a sociopath and psychopath on the crazy scale. Or in other words they have the traits of both.

All the crap that the orange splat is doing, I have also already lived through, like others have said here.

However the difference here is what jodymarie said so well, that tRump never had to learn how to appear normal to function in society. And that is what is going to screw him now.

[dlk]

23. I Used to be Married to a Psychopath and I Feel Your Pain

They lie about everything and think it’s funny. It’s all a game to them and they usually win because having no conscience frees them to do anything.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

24. Our culture is part of the problem & I don't pretend to know the answer.

In most of the world, it's considered taboo to openly label anyone with a mental "illness" and that may be the most fair thing to do, considering our poor system for dealing with these issues.

However, this may need to have limits to protect society from the worst of those ills such as psychopathy when they are extreme cases such as with Trump. I would guess that any major news outlet that openly labeled tRump as a psychopath would be in court for years over defamation. Hell, they're too afraid to even call him out as a habitual liar!

I have an odd belief system that says no one is born defective, but instead people are born with natural genetic variations that stem from evolution. It is our society that chooses to label those perceived to not fit into the "norm", usually because the odd ones can't be as productive and add to the GDP.

With most mental and behavioral disorders, many people can adapt and live a decent life with proper care. However, those that cause trouble are locked up or otherwise hidden from view, and/or kept on strong drugs.

........

[Hekate]

25. The problems discussed in this thread seem to be inborn, with no source & no cure...

I have read thoughtful essays (even some here) by psychologists and psychotherapists that work in institutional settings such as prisons. They all agree that in their experience an ordinary criminal can be rehabilitated, change their ways of thinking and behaving; but that a sociopath/psychopath will never change -- not with drugs and not with psychotherapy. It is as the former spouses in this thread have testified: they think there is nothing wrong with them, and they don't give a flyng fig what you think or feel.

Many walk the streets in business suits and occupy board rooms in tall buildings. They get elected to political office or start mega-churches. I'm sure they are represented in the military as well. They are good at what they do, and are rewarded by society for their performance. The fact that the path of their progress is littered with broken people they have crushed seems to be beside the point. They are very functional -- and again, they think there is nothing wrong with them, and that other people are just tools and fools. They can get away with this for a lifetime -- and if they are busted for their behavior (#MeToo), they still will believe there is nothing wrong with them.

It seems to me that there is something physically wrong in the wiring of their brains, and that there is no "cure." Society needs to be protected from them more than they need to be compassionately understood. Or rather, by all means compassionately understand the sociopath, but only after you put him in jail or help his wife and kids escape.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

27. Thanks, Hekate. This is certainly worthy of open-minded discussion.

I'm an amateur psychologist as a useful hobby in my decades-long process of chemical abuse recovery and self-understanding. It also helps me to be more understanding and accepting of others.

That said, I agree that many of these mental oddities are inborn but can now see how we may have inherited those characteristics from early evolution. For example, our species went through millions of years in extremely brutal struggles just to survive, and it may have been that literally 100% of our populations at times were what we would today label as psychopaths. We still carry fragments of those genes in all of us. One could also argue that each and every one of us is a little bit of a psychopath as part of our survival instinct.

So, I believe most mental "oddities" come in degrees, and my experiences with many everyday people seem to prove that. Some of the most interesting people I've been exposed to in my 70 years were those with multiple personalities, and several that were bipolar. Those types will try one's patience and tolerance to our very core. Low-level psychopath are simply just a pain in the ass.

Bottom line is that unless our society is willing to test and classify people mentally at an early age, and then be willing to segregate those we don't want to deal with in open society, then we'll be stuck with the occasional madman that makes it to the top. Seriously, I doubt if humanity will ever be willing to go there to any degree. For a number of practical reasons, I personally would be against it, at least in the near-term.

I do, however, think a thorough mental evaluation should be a requirement for anyone running for very powerful positions in government or business, and it would be fair to the public interest. Republicans would fight against that to their death.

[beachbum bob]

28. majority of americans do not have direct contact with a sociopath combined with serial lying and

extreme narcissism.....and why trump has ran rampant over everyone all his life. He never believes he is wrong.

[no_hypocrisy]

29. My father.

Also I lived with a psychopath and nobody called him on it -- except me. And that made me "the enemy" and the family "pot stirrer".

How bad was it? Dad once called me to demand (not ask) that I tell him all the ways he hurt me. I told him to sit down as it was going to take a while. One hour later, after a litany of real transgressions including blocks of exchanges, he claimed that he didn't remember any of the incidents and/or conversations. I didn't know what made my eyes bulge more: the list of injuries or his denial.

When he died, I shed no tears, nor did my brother and sister.

[jodymarie aimee]

31. imagine if your Dad and my ex

were on the TV 24/7 with 30% of the country cheering them on...that is what we have in Trump.

[no_hypocrisy]

33. Dad had a pretty good act for the rest of the world.

People still talk about him as though he were a living saint.

Trump gives me PTSD when he talks. He reminds me too much of Dad.

[OMGWTF]

37. My mother is a psycho bitch from hell

who hides behind her "Christianity" to get away with her evil deeds. She's 88 next month and I'm not going to her funeral when she dies.

[no_hypocrisy]

39. I hear you about the latter.

Dad's ashes are not buried yet. He's in my sister's closet because I've threatened to pour him on the carpet and turn on the vacuum.

[3catwoman3]

44. Get a cat and put the ashes...

...in the litter box.

[demigoddess]

47. I got one of those too. Never could figure out

was it evil or some sort of personality disorder. Haven't spoken to her in over 50 years. Thank heaven.

[ProfessorPlum]

30. Great post, except that Trump _has_ had to get out of a jam, several times

Because he blew Daddy's $.

He had to go begging the Russians for a massive bailout, with all of the life-of-servitude to them that came with it.

[jodymarie aimee]

32. Peter had no access to Russian oligarchs !!

Don's $$ meant he didn't have to finesse his way out of a jam....he had $$ or ACCESS to it...his stupid brand name.

[lunatica]

41. This entire thread is an eye opener and needs to be kicked

I was also married to a Narcissit Psychopath who I literally had to escape from with my baby son. He was psychologically and physically abusive and beat me for reasons I still don’t get today.

But never did I believe I deserved it as he would have me believe. It was knowing that in time he would hurt my son that made me decide to leave him. I had my sister help me move away, out of the country to get away. It worked because he didn’t know where I was. My friends never gave my whereabouts away.

I never talked about it to my son because I knew he would ask about it one day. He did when he was 9 years old. I knew he was old enough to understand so I told him the truth. I answered every follow up question he asked. I didn’t demonize his father or protest my victimization. I did my best to just tell him the facts as I saw them.

[CousinIT]

42. Mueller can't do jack

With a Republucan congress or with Kavanaugh on the USSC.

You know what that means we all have to do to ensure Democrats dominate congress & to keep rapey brett off our court (shitler only wants him for personal legal protection anyway).

There should not be one day where we all are not doing something to save this country because the aforementioned is the ONLY WAY now.

[SCantiGOP]

43. I have contended for a couple of years

that you could put Trump on a lie detector for all the stuff he has said and it would show that he was telling the 'Truth,' at least as he saw it. So I am seconding the OP as being completely accurate.

[extvbroadcaster]

45. Yes, Trump has mental problems

It is sad to see the talk shows try to make sense of Trump's behavior. They offer excuses that range from he's a amateur politician to he's just an ass. But they never hit on the real problem, he has multiple untreated personality disorders. His money and so called fame always insulated him from responsibility for his behavior. Now he's an old man, thinks he knows everything and has butt kissers around him to enable his delusions. He won't get better. The only answer is to get him out of office and the sooner the better. And hope we don't have a crisis that needs Presidential leadership.

[GentryDixon]

46. Your last sentence is chilling, and so spot on.

It's going to take we citizens to take our country back from the haters & moneyed, indifferent rulers of our government.

Seeing the people in North Carolina helping their neighbors during this storm is very heartening. I have a home in Harnett County, but live in Utah. For the last two days I have been streaming https://www.wral.com/ to know what is going on. The humanity being shown makes me think we can get past this abomination of the trump (sorry, can't capitalize) administration.

Anyone hear from grits? I've been off DU for a few days, so have not seen anything from her.