Lots of misunderstanding around here about what Michael Moore is doing.

[LBM20]

I have never agreed with everything Michael Moore says, but he is an unabashed progressive who has most always supported Democrats, wants the Democrats to win in November and is saying so LOUDLY AND CLEARLY, and hates Trump to his very core. He was out there protesting over Trump's Muslim ban and has fought very hard for progressive causes for decades.


The circular firing squad among progressives/Dems needs to be killed dead once and for all. Moore is out there right now, so importantly, telling EVERYONE on our side to get the heck out in November and VOTE VOTE VOTE as though our lives depend on it.

Moore was one of the few correct in predicting Trump's inside-straight win in 2016 because he understood the deep anger and frustration of so many in the heartland. He is now warning loud and clear about the serious danger of Trump to our very democracy and that we need to get up off the couch, get the hell involved, and behave AS THOUGH we are going to lose IN ORDER TO PREVENT THAT VERY THING. He WANTS US TO WIN and WIN BIG! He has said over and over again that he wants a massive blue wave and for the non-voters to vote, and for women and young people and people of color to vote in record numbers in order to totally wipe out the GOP in November. And he is 1000% right.

So don't misunderstand when he says "Act is if we are going to lose." because he just means Act With A Sense Of Ultimate Urgency And Purpose. Do Not Sit Out! Get Involved! Go Campaign! Donate! And VOTE VOTE VOTE.

This is what Michael Moore is clearly saying, and it is very good. It is one more strong voice saying what needs to be said RIGHT NOW. In fact, he is saying not to be thinking about 2020. NOVEMBER IS THE ELECTION OF OUR LIFETIME! VOTE VOTE VOTE! This is what he is saying. And he is entirely correct! We can't say it enough.

[ecstatic]

1. Saw him on Real Time on Friday bashing Hillary and

Pres. Obama.

[DrDan]

2. he also said PBO was the best president of his lifetime

and he was a Clinton supporter in 2016 after Bernie dropped

[ecstatic]

8. Yeah, but his attacks completely neutralized the positive comments. nt

[True Dough]

56. Well, Bill Maher's show isn't the DU

In real life, no president is immune from criticisms. I have enormous respect for Obama but he wasn't perfect and he would admit as much. He was badly hindered by the obstruction from Republicans, especially during this second term. It's a shame he had to fight so damn hard for everything he accomplished, and a greater shame that Trump has rolled back so many progressive gains.

Anyway, Moore often doesn't get enough credit for how prescient he's been. He's forecasted many political situations correctly and he's often been bashed in the weeks and months leading up to the event that proves him right. He's definitely worth listening to, even though he too isn't perfect.

[BannonsLiver]

65. Yeah and DU ain't real life either.

In “real life” Moore’s film is tanking bigly.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/news/box-office-house-a-clock-walls-eyes-20m-fahrenheit-11-9-falters-1146144

There some “real life” for you.

[Me.]

121. And So Is His Film Festival

He's being called a liberal Trump for the way he treats employees and then there this....

This is a long read but sad that this is who/what he has become:

“In 2005, Michael Moore launched the Traverse City Film Festival, along with his dream of creating a nonprofit that brought cultural events and film classes to the Michigan lakeside town of 15,000 residents. Key to that vision was exhibition expert Chapin Cutler and his company, Boston Light & Sound. In addition to restoring and installing over 100 projectors for Quentin Tarantino and Christopher Nolan’s 70mm roadshows, Cutler also helped transform TCFF from asbestos-curtain movie screens to state-of-the-art cinemas.

Thirteen years later, with the festival in debt, two executive directors gone within five months, and struggling to find financial stability, Cutler is suing TCFF for an unpaid bill of more than $150,000. Meanwhile, TCFF dropped BL&S, with Moore suggesting at a recent public meeting that the company provided poor service to the industry…cont…

According to sources, by early 2018 it was clear that Moore was extremely angry with Cutler. Meanwhile, Moore recruited Sundance Institute veteran Joseph Beyer as Lake’s replacement, saying he offered “a unique combination of experience, creativity, and passion” and TCFF was “lucky” to hire him. In April, when Beyer officially took over, he was tasked with informing Cutler that not only would BL&S not be back in 2018, but the festival would only offer 50 cents on the dollar to settle its 2017 bill. Beyer would then quit TCFF three weeks after his start date, despite having moved to Michigan….cont…

Instead of doing something honorable and saying we don’t have the money, this what we’re going to do, are you willing to work with us on this, which we were very willing to do,” said Cutler. “They started flailing around and looking under the rug and putting together a lot of nonsense that basically that was all made up, because they were trying to find a way to scare us out of dropping the suit. Well, we’re not scared.”..cont…

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/09/michael-moore-smear-law-suit-boston-light-sound-chapin-cutler-1202003806/

[PinkTiger]

174. Moore is a self-proclaimed "polemicist" and he isn't trying to make us like him.

I think there is always room for criticism, fair criticism, and yes, he was critical of Hillary Clinton and President Obama.
We have been buffeted by unfair attacks from the right, so much that we are sore of it and not wanting to openly examine our wrongs as progressives.
We need to look at the entire picture. I have not always liked what Moore says, and yes, it hurts a bit to have our darlings tramped upon, but we are in a crisis here.
It is time for us to stand up for what we believe in and realize that no candidate is perfect.
That said, I think getting out the vote in November should be our primary objective.
My age (68) and living in a red state and county - Missouri, Stone - make activism difficult. I told my husband I was going to put on my pussy hat and go down in front of his accounting firm on Main Street and pickett. He laughed and said to go ahead. Our town is small, only a couple of thousand people, and that includes the country dwellers with a town address.
I'm not going to pickett here. But I live near Springfield and I can work a phone bank out of my house to call likely voters and get them out to the polls.
Even in our red area, I noticed a lot more people picking up Democratic ballots during the primary than usual. Even though Democrats can't make a noticeable difference county-wide, every vote counts toward a state-wide initiative or candidate and must not be discouraged. If I had some money, I'd do a mailer to every resident about voting, including how to register, where to vote, ect.

[Cha]

183. Michael Moore is a Liar.

Link to tweet

"In new film, Michael Moore compares Trump to Hitler. And he's not so crazy about Obama, either."

"I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

"trump is comparable to hitler", but it's the Democratic Party(old guard).. Like John Lewis?.. that is the roadblock? He's an idiot.. and so Full of Shite.

[mcar]

226. Thanks for this fact check, Cha

Moore lied. I guess I'm not surprised. All in keeping with his biennial suppress the Democratic vote actions.

[Cha]

264. Moore is a Liar and a Divider.. the Obamas are out there

GOTV!

Link to tweet

And, Moore is spouting bullshit about our Democratic Party.

Mahalo, mcar!

[Honeycombe8]

255. But saying water is drinkable, if you use a filter, is saying it's safe.

Obama didn't say "for now." He said it's "safe now."

But Obama reassured Flint residents that the water is safe now — as long as it's properly filtered.

"I really did need a glass of water. This is not a stunt," he said as he asked for water during a bout of coughing. "If you’re using a filter, if you’re installing it, then Flint water at this point is drinkable."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/04/obama-flint-visit-drinking-water-lead-poisoning/83916778/

But Moore didn't point out that Obama then signed a bill giving Michigan $150 Million to replace the pipes & such. It didn't go into effect until the Trump administration. But Obama did it. To the contrary, Moore said the pipes still haven't been replaced, not making it clear that Michigan got the money for that from Obama, and didn't explain why those pipes haven't been replaced yet.

That ticked me off. It seemed as if Moore was trying to give the impression that Obama didn't care and didn't do anything. It was quite the opposite. Obama went there, and then gave Michigan the money to replace the pipes. Plus, the state of Michigan is responsible for some things.

Moore also said that Obama PRETENDED to drink the Flint water. WTH? I saw no reference in the news articles that Obama pretended anything. It was probably for show, but no article said it looked like he only pretended to drink it. That shows a bias on Moore's part.

[Gothmog]

278. Thanks Cha

[lapucelle]

231. At least Moore is fighting hard to preserve his $50,000,000+ personal fortune.

He's a poseur slob who has done more political harm than good over the decades. The only thing he's been successful at is monetizing his "progressivism" to the greatest extent possible.

https://www.courthousenews.com/michael-moores-ex-says-he-wont-share-royalties/

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/what-is-michael-moore.html/

[Cha]

281. Other people use their star power to help and rebuild their devastated communities. Moore just runs

Link to tweet

Thank You, lapucelle!

[lapucelle]

284. Mahalo Cha! Moore is a profiteer and no friend to Democrats.

It disgusted me to see him do his mansplainin' schtick at the Women's March. Our cause needs respectful allies, not tone deaf lecturers.

[Cha]

288. Nor do we need Idiots like this..

“But I think we have to embrace Trump,” Moore said in the interview. “People reading this will say, ‘What do you mean? Embrace Trump?’ But we have to embrace him. We have to listen to him. He’s telling lies, and he’s telling the truth at the same time"

From the WaPo intro.. "Moore argues that Barack Obama and the Dems share the blame with trump for the state of state of the country."

"No. I'm against hope,” called back Moore. “Hope was back then with Obama. I'm for a generation of action."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

MM.. So fucking bitter.. while Barack and Michelle are out there GOTV

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

285. Interesting, thanks for posting.

[Honeycombe8]

252. Moore points out flaws only insofar as it relates to getting votes.

He's pointing out reasons why voters in certain areas voted the way they did, and why they would in the future, if the Democrats make the same mistakes again.

It's not pleasant to hear, but it's necessary, if we want to get those votes, and more importantly, address the concerns of those people.

People won't vote for a party that it thinks doesn't care about them or their concerns. So that's why Moore wasn't surprised that many in his area voted for Trump and is again pointing out where the party can do better. A party can always do better.

(But...I think Moore does have his own agenda, or movement, that doesn't necessarily always align with the Democratic Party, if push came to shove. Still, he wants the Dems to win over Republicans, unlike some third party activist movements. Moore is a Democrat, as far as I know.)

[mountain grammy]

77. True that, True Dough

[Cha]

179. Yeah, Michael Moore isn't immune from criticism, either.. don't forget that

as you jump on the band wagon.

Link to tweet

"In new film, Michael Moore compares Trump to Hitler. And he's not so crazy about Obama, either."

"I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

"trump is comparable to hitler", but it's the Democratic Party(old guard).. Like John Lewis?.. that is the roadblock? He's an idiot.. and so Full of Shite.

[Eliot Rosewater]

185. I wont say his name anymore, fucker.

He BASHES our party and our leaders and offers NOTHING positive

FUCK HIM

LIed about Obama and I knew that the instant I saw it

[Cha]

189. Yes, Michael Moore is a GD Liar and look at how many people

are the fuck ok with that.

[certainot]

296. his problem is the same as most political observers - they contort themselves into pretzels trying

place blame for 30 years of progressive left dem liberal failures while listening to music, completely missing the coordinated propaganda operation called talk radio because it hurt their heads to listen to it

mm is guilty of is the same stupid most other dems are guilty of - ignoring talk radio while it beat the shit out of them - biggest and stupidest political mistake in history

it's the talk radio, stupid, dumbass, twit, bloody idiota, should have been the slogan

dumbshits on msnbc have sam nunberg on regularly and never ask him about the 4/3/16 piece by gabriel sherman in which he said he listened to 1000s of hours of talk radio to formulate the trump/stone strategy for the primaries - and probably to coordinate with putin trolling

[True Dough]

228. Thanks, mountain grammy!

[Hulk]

94. Spot on!!

President Obama, without a doubt or even a close second, was the greatest President this country has had in my lifetime, and yet there were many things I can say were wrong with the direction of issues during his 8 years; but YES, the Great Recession left to him and the stonewall obstructionist party, not to mention the reich wing movement of teabaggers across the country were fighting him every step of the way.

NOBODY is going to be the perfect President. We have a Congress, and now a corrupt Supreme Court, that assure that will never happen.

Moore has been spot on also....every step of the way. The Democratic Party has MANY faults, and has done lots of things wrong and hurt it's reputation. We have to admit our shortfalls and missteps, and move forward....remembering the progressive movement and the Democratic Party are ALWAYS better than the alternative.

[True Dough]

227. Glad we agree!

As if any public figure or political party is infallible. Silly thinking.

[Cha]

175. Michael Fucking Moore isn't immune from being called out

for the Liar he is, either.

Link to tweet

"In new film, Michael Moore compares Trump to Hitler. And he's not so crazy about Obama, either."

"I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

"trump is comparable to hitler", but it's the Democratic Party(old guard).. Like John Lewis?.. that is the roadblock. He's an idiot.. and so Full of Shite.

[Doremus]

222. How many times are you going to post this?

Regardless of my opinion on the subject, enough is enough already!

[Cha]

223. If it bothers you so much don't read it.

If you think you can order members around you're wrong.

[Nitram]

243. Cha, you are very close to trolling and/or spamming when you post the same long post

three times in the same thread. Yelling the same thing over and over is counter-productive and counter-persuasive. I'm asking you to cut that out. Please. We got your point the first time.

[Cha]

263. Bullshit. I never posted it to you.. only people who are

Rah Rahing MM for Lying about President Obama. I'll post what I want when I want.

No thanks for your concern, Nitram.. or calling me "very close to trolling or spamming".

Oh, you think because it's posted once on a long thread that others are going to see it who already left the thread or don't read the whole thread?

[R B Garr]

265. Thank you, Cha. You are exactly right about responding to

individual posters who are repeating disinformation. I appreciate your efforts. Especially with phone reading and longer subthreads that have repeated distortions and distractions, it’s good to see your follow up! Much appreciated. I’m so glad to see the “criticizers” like Moore being questioned themselves. It’s about time. No more unanswered junk from them.

[Cha]

271. Aloha, RB! It's so good

to see You! Mahalo for your words of supporting the numerous pushbacks on Moore..

Not one of his supporters care that he lies about President Obama and is a divider. I'm sick of the bitter bullshit coming from him.

Meanwhile the Obamas are out there GOTV!

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

270. Thank you, Cha.

I've been typing the same damn quotes again and again for two days! Truth is truth.

[Cha]

273. Thank You so Much, betsuni!

You guys are the best.. Thank you for helping set the record straight on Michael Moore.

[betsuni]

275. Strange, the "Who are you going to believe about MM, me or your lying eyes?" posts.

I believe my eyes and ears. Are they saying MM didn't say what he said? Do they think we're lying? That MM needs a translator, he doesn't mean what he says?

[Cha]

280. Here's more stupid statements from MM in the WaPo..

Last edited Sun Sep 23, 2018, 10:12 PM - Edit history (1)

“But I think we have to embrace Trump,” Moore said in the interview. “People reading this will say, ‘What do you mean? Embrace Trump?’ But we have to embrace him. We have to listen to him. He’s telling lies, and he’s telling the truth at the same time"

From the WaPo intro.. "Moore argues that Barack Obama and the Dems share the blame with trump for the state of state of the country."

"No. I'm against hope,” called back Moore. “Hope was back then with Obama. I'm for a generation of action."

MM.. So fucking bitter.. while Barack and Michelle are out there GOTV

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

Link to tweet

The Moore fans are saying "crickets".

Thanks again for the clue to the WaPo link.. omg.

[betsuni]

283. Embrace Trump, he's telling lies and telling the truth at the same time.

After Trump (the "genius" ) goes down in flames, these things he's saying will be unfortunate for him.

Thanks for the tweets!

[Cha]

287. No, MM.. trump is LYING his fucking head OFF. End of story.

This statement of Moore's is the height of idiocy..

Wonder how many of his fans are going to follow MM's advice on "embracing trump"?

You're quite Welcome!

[betsuni]

290. MM has talked about the first time he met Trump.

They were both going to be on a talk show, but Trump saw MM in the green room and told the producer he didn't want to go on, he was afraid of being attacked. The producer asked MM to do something, so he went over to talk to Trump, who said something like, oh, we don't have to mix it up out there. They chatted a little. MM said he ended up not saying anything against Trump during the show, not being himself: "he played me," said Trump isn't stupid, this guy is good.

I guess that's the origin of why he thinks Trump is a genius. A little chat and MM can't be himself. Weird.

[Cha]

294. Such principles! lol I blame Michael Moore.. he's bitter & jealous

of President Obama and acts a like a mean twit.

And, now he calls trump like "hitler" BUT "EMBRACE" him! but "Dems are more of a roadblock".

Damn.. I'm grateful I wasn't destined to be one of his fans and have to go along with that shite.

[JI7]

298. he is no Sacha Baron Cohen

i guess he was impressed by Trump's "genius" .

[Nitram]

323. I guess you just need attention. nt

[R B Garr]

328. What an ironic comment. Maybe Moore just needs attention.

He needs to stir the divisive pot with misinformation. It’s about time these divisive tactics are called out. edit: Moore profits from promoting disinformation.

[betsuni]

268. No, it needs to be repeated.

There are people disputing that MM said what he said.

[True Dough]

235. Hey Cha!

Don't blow a gasket. We'd like to keep you around here!

[Cha]

272. Gaskets all in place, True Dough..

[True Dough]

274. Good to hear!

[thesquanderer]

106. No, his "attacks" show moderates he's not a "left wing kool aid drinker."

He doesn't need to try to get US to go out and vote, he needs to try to get "Middle America" to go out and vote.

Similarly, a Republican who admits his party isn't always perfect has more appeal to moderates than does a Republican who marches in lock-step with the party and thinks every one of their candidates has been perfect.

[liberalnarb]

108. Oh get over it.

No one is immune to criticism.

[Cha]

176. That's right.. especially the Liar Michael Moore..

for the Liar he is, either.

Link to tweet

"In new film, Michael Moore compares Trump to Hitler. And he's not so crazy about Obama, either."

"I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

"trump is comparable to hitler", but it's the Democratic Party(old guard).. Like John Lewis?.. that is the roadblock? He's an idiot.. and so Full of Shite.

[liberalnarb]

178. John Lewis? Who the fuck mentioned John Lewis?

[Cha]

181. Your deflection about Michael Moore being a GD Liar is noted.

[liberalnarb]

186. He might be mistaken about Obama's press conference

but he's no liar. He's been one of the most important voices on the left and a truth teller devoted to fighting for good for the last few decades. Hating him for his critiques of Obama/Clinton is absurd and infuriating.

[Cha]

193. Yes Michael Moore is a Liar.. and a fucking idiot about President Obama..

Michael Moore calls Obama a ‘huge disappointment’

<Moore continued: “When the history is written of this era, this is how you’ll be remembered. He was the first black president. OK, not a bad accomplishment. But that’s it. That’s it, Mr. Obama. A hundred years from now, (it’ll be noted that) he was the first black American that got elected president. And that’s it — eight years of your life and that’s what people will remember.”>

https://nypost.com/2014/09/11/michael-moore-calls-obama-a-huge-disappointment/


BULLSHIT "..that's all what people will remember about President Obama". That's what Moore wishes.. ain't gonna happen.

Moore is a HUGE Disappointment.. Always Whining his Freaking head off about President Obama

[liberalnarb]

197. Unfortunately, Pres Obama was disappointing in certain aspects

Not pushing for Universal Healthcare, or at least a public option was a big one for me personally. Obama was, without a doubt, the best and most honorable President of my lifetime, but he did seem more devoted to compromise and nonexistant bipartisanship than Progressive goals. Also, the quote you cited is years old and it's an opinion, not a lie.

[Cha]

202. Oh Bullshit.. I don't need to hear anymore of that Moore Bullshit.

Fucking Liar Michael Moore just called him the "greatest President in his lifetime".. he needs to get his gd story straight.

Michael Moore is a fucking idiot saying "President Obama will only be remembered as the first Black President and that's all."

You say President Obama can be criticized.. well the Liar Michael Moore can, too.

And, what's this Bullshit from Michael Moore?..

"In new film, Michael Moore compares Trump to Hitler. And he's not so crazy about Obama, either."

"I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

"trump is comparable to hitler", but it's the Democratic Party(old guard).. that is the roadblock?

[liberalnarb]

211. You keep showing yourself to be very unreasonable.

Your posts are repetative and read as hysterical. You keep citing a quote ("hes not so crazy about Obama either" ) from WaPo, not Moore himself. The quote about Obama only being remembered as the first black President is 4 or 5 years old, a lot has happened since then. What he said referring to the Democratic Party "old guard" may just be true. And no, hes not talking about John Lewis. Hes talking about those who remain committed to outdated third way politics.

[Cha]

214. You didn't respond without personally attacking me. Why not address that MM is a LIAR?

[liberalnarb]

215. Read the rest of the thread.

[betsuni]

218. Who is "committed to outdated third way politics"?

Can you please name one or two?

[liberalnarb]

237. Dianne Feinstein, Heidi Heitkamp, Joe Manchin

A few that come to mind.

[betsuni]

238. You say that MM referring to the Democratic Party as old guard may be true.

Moore said the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump. How are the three people you name being a roadblock? Why do a few Democrats represent the entire party? No one would say that a few moderate Republicans represent the party.

[Cha]

301. ...

[betsuni]

302. Ha!

[George II]

321. Weren't all three elected to their Senate seats by their constituents?

[betsuni]

291. "The quote about Obama ... is 4 or 5 years old." We have to hear about "super-predators,"

a word from a speech about gangs Hillary Clinton gave over 20 years ago. Four or five years is nothing compared to that. MM's feet should be held to the same fire as Democrats' feet.

[liberalnarb]

191. Also, as far as what he said about Obama's Flint response is concerned, his general criticism

is that Obama's visit seemed to signal that Flint's water crisis was solved and that everything was hunky dory, when in fact poisoned water was still being pumped into the homes of Flint residents, filters or no filters.

[betsuni]

213. The mixed messages are vexing.

One minute he says he loves Obama, best president in his lifetime, worked hard for Hilary and voted for her, vote for Democrats.

The next he's saying the primary was rigged, Obama's a liar who wanted to poison people and sent in the military to attack them, and Democrats are a bigger roadblock to social progress than Trump.

Whaaaaaaaaaat.

If his message is to vote for Our Revolution-type candidates, the primaries are over. All this nonsense about establishment, centrist, old guard, status quo: what is the purpose?

[George II]

42. He said that Obama was a disappointment.

[Gothmog]

99. Moore spends more time attacking Obama than attacking trump

[liberalnarb]

110. Horse shit.

[Gothmog]

141. Moore hates the democratic party

I stopped paying attention to him a long tome ago. Moore's attacks on President Obama are really sad

[liberalnarb]

145. That's just plain wrong.

Hes critical of the Democratic Party, but no, he doesnt hate the Democratic Party.

[Gothmog]

154. I disagree

Moore hates the party and want to remake it in the image of a failed candidate

Moore has lost all credibilty with me. I stopped caring about this person's crazy rants a long time ago

[brush]

158. We went thru a whole campaign in 2016 with another progressive attacking the Dem party.

It didn't help us at all. We don't need so-called allies attacking us and thus influencing some voters to turn away.

Attack the fu_king repugs for God's sake.

We need to win in Nov. so we don't need this sh_t now.

[Gothmog]

166. Agreed

We do not need moore's attacks on the party

[Eliot Rosewater]

188. That guy you are all talking about is going to elect more GOP

but he isnt the only one with that agenda that we talk about around here
i have to be cryptic, being that I am a liberal who supports my party

[Hamlette]

209. spot on

If you need to vent about Dems, do it in a room of Dems. Seems the bitch Moore and others have with the Dems is they don't go far enough. Never that they go the wrong way. That is what makes us different from the GOP. We get a Dem who goes the wrong way and I'll join you on TV.

[Gothmog]

343. I am so happy that real Democrats are boycotting this attack on the Democratic Party

Moore’s hatred of the Democratic Party hurt this film

[R B Garr]

151. Yes, that is very noticeable. He makes big bucks

attacking Democrats. All of those “criticizers” do. Hmm. 🤔

[Gothmog]

156. Moore is not credible

His constant attacks on the party are ignorant and have convinced me to ignore him

[betsuni]

217. He says that his film spends only about 20 minutes on Trump.

I guess he saves a lot of the rest of the time for the party that's the "greater roadblock to social progress than Trump."

[Gothmog]

269. Who is suprised by this?

Moore's main target is the Democratic party

[Qutzupalotl]

111. Only because Obama drank the Flint water on camera instead of

sending in the Army Corps of Engineers to change the lead pipes. DESPITE THAT, he still thinks Obama is going to end up being the best president of his lifetime.

[DrDan]

149. Friday evening - "I love President Obama; we may not have a better president in my lifetime,"

[brush]

171. Him saying O was the best pres. of his life but then turning around to bash the Dems...

is like saying someone is a nice guy but has he stopped beating his wife yet?

We don't need two-faced crappola criticism with the Nov. election just some 40 days away.

We need enthusiastic support.

This should not even have to be said to alleged allies.

[DrDan]

172. so no Dem is less-than-perfect?

So sorry he offered criticism of the party - but sometimes the truth hurts. We should listen, not demonize him because he recognizes and points out our faults as he sees them.

and your example is simply faulty.

[brush]

177. I REPEAT. THE ELECTION IS 40 DAYS AWAY. WE NEED SUPPORT NOT CRITICISM.

This is such a no-brainer why does this even have to be said?

If we don't win at least the House it's all downhill to trumpism and fascism.

We don't need party bashing disguised as criticism that can actually influence voters away from us.

Not rocket science.

Think about it. Why are we getting this crap just before the election? Are you aware that Moore pulled this crap before in 2000 in backing Nader and saying there's no difference between the two parties?

He needs to STFU until after the election.

[DrDan]

192. I think, as do others here, that offering criticism is not

equivalent to lack of support for our candidates and our party. We prefer to not stick our heads in the sand. One can provide financial, support, make calls, vote, and be otherwise active in getting our candidates elected, yet recognize we have flaws. And sharing these thoughts can bring about positive change.

Sorry to disagree with your obvious "no-brainer".

[brush]

195. Is 40 some days before the election the time to risk driving voters away?

There couldn't be a more obvious no-brainer.

Not only has Moore been on Bill Maher with his "helpful" criticism, he was also on Chris Hayes spotlighting a guy who didn't vote in 2016 because Hillary didn't inspire him, now his movie is out.

How many voters has his campaign to highlight Democratic faults costs us?

His agenda is pretty apparent.

Allies don't do this stuff right before such a critical election that will decide if we at least get control of one branch of government to stave off trumpism and fascism.

[DrDan]

200. I'm done - good luck quieting those that offer objective criticisms

I'm sure they are open to your suggestion of censorship.

[brush]

203. Is it censhorship or is their timing stupid as hell?

40-some days to the election and he's bashing the party.

Allies don't do that. What is his real agenda?

[DrDan]

212. pretty clear to me

Censorship, the suppression of words, images, or ideas that are "offensive," happens whenever some people succeed in imposing their personal political or moral values on others.

according to the ACLU

[brush]

216. Seriously? If he can criticise the party he can be criticised.

Call it censorship if you want. I call it not him not being smart with probably the most important mid-term in decades only 40-some days away.

[OilemFirchen]

248. This OP is still standing.

What fucking censorship are you talking about?

BTW: Time and place. Picking battles. Bathing before a television appearance. Dude's old enough to understand all three, no?

[LBM20]

13. No, he said he "LOVES" Obama but took issue with the water crisis matter. He wanted Hillary to win

like many other, including me, has criticized her campaign and the party for legitimate mistakes. You can't win if you don't fix mistakes.

[ecstatic]

18. It's bullshit. For genuine criticism, read Avenatti's tweets

Or Bill Maher's tweets. Moore is a fake. It's obvious he hates democrats but he pretends not to in order to be welcome in liberal circles and to be invited on shows with Bill Maher, etc.

For example, if you truly believe Hillary and democrats stole the primary election, you would not vote or campaign for her. Period! Every attack he's made, if true, would be a deal breaker for most people. So his pretending to support democrats, Hillary, and Pres Obama in spite of the very nasty accusations he's made is nonsensical.

Finally, midterms are coming and his best contribution is to put out a movie that says trump sucks, but Democrats suck too? Come on now... He's not a friend. Why does it take so long to face reality regarding some of these frauds (Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich, Ron & Rand Paul, etc)?

[justie18]

34. Exactly!

Talk about a circular firing squad - I started to watch his appearance on Bill Maher - even Bill Maher thought he was out of line to question Hillary's primary victory! And Bill Maher was a Bernie supporter all the way!

The inference that Bernie was denied the nomination, when Hillary won fair and square - no rules were messed with at all to ensure her victory - is just inexcusable. Not to mention the fact that Bernie is / was not even a member of the Democratic Party.

I had been looking forward to watching his movie, but now you could not pay me to waste my time on his garbage.

He worked hard to Ralph Nader in 2000 and look how that turned out! Definitely not a friend of Democrats.

[olegramps]

44. What is the difference between the tarffs and trade that Bernie proposed and what Trump is doing?

China should have been dealt with from a position of the power of the collective Western communities confrontation and ultimatums. Trump's handling is an absolute disaster. He is doing far more harm than good to our economy without any real consequences for the Chinese. He has accomplished nothing constructive so far.

[rainy]

57. The question we should ask: is it true?

Did Bernie win those primaries and the powered Dems squashed his win against the will of the people? Look this country is so far right but the people are way more progressive yet progressives are stopped, ignored, blocked at every turn and you know it’s all about money in politics!!! Democrats need to excite their HUGE base if they want to WIN. Sadly their base can’t donate on the same level as their corporate donors who like them right of center.

[ecstatic]

68. No it's not true. He mainly won the very undemocratic caucuses

And/or open primaries. The base did not support Bernie. He lost by over 3.5 MILLION votes!

His supporters often bring up the superdelegates as an excuse. Guess what? The superdelegates were all aligned with Hillary Clinton in 2008. But when the base shifted to Obama, so did the superdelegates. I'm sure it would have been the same for Bernie, had the base shifted towards him. Again, Bernie lost the primaries by over 3.5 MILLION votes!

[charlyvi]

72. Exactly. +1

[Gothmog]

102. Exactly. Sanders mainly won undemocratic caucuses

Moore is simply wrong in his bogus claims

[radical noodle]

103. She also won the nomination without

the superdelegates. He was the one that actually tried to use the superdelegates against the rightful nominee.

[justie18]

114. Exactly! plus +1000

Thank you for bringing up that point. Yest he was trying to convince the superdelegates to switch their vote to him at a time when he should have already conceded the nomination to her and helped unite the party. The ugly divisiveness caused great hullaballoo during the DNC convention and was not helpful - to say the least!

[R B Garr]

144. Exactly. Maybe they think some won't notice the

opposite world talking points where one is actually doing/attempting what they accuse others of doing. Trump also parroted the “rigged” system meme. Manafort and Devine worked together before.

[lunamagica]

101. Hillary received almost 4 million more votes tan Sanders did. The people spoke. Does that answer

your question?

[Fred Sanders]

39. As far as I can tell Moore was saying Hillary being given the debate questions in advance, which

has been admitted, for the debate in Flint I believe, was...influential in the outcome.

Any part of that inaccurate?

[JHan]

46. It was a question about the water situation in Flint during the Flint debate..

.. during the Flint Debate.

A question about the Water situation during the Flint Debate.

who didn't expect a question about the Water situation in Flint during the Flint debate?

It was a question Clinton didn't even answer all that great which makes me wonder if Donna even passed it on to her. Where was the benefit here? How did that question change the dynamics that Sanders was unable to win the Democratic base?

There has always been an incestuous relationship between campaign insiders and the media, it's why Pundits are usually former Political aides. Corporate News Media Houses nurture these relationships because it gives them access to leaks and backstories. If Moore really thinks that a question about about the water crisis during the flint debate is evidence of a primary being rigged, he's either idiotic or can't accept the reasons why the guy he wanted to win lost.

[Fred Sanders]

54. Truth, or fiction?

https://www.truthorfiction.com/hillary-clinton-received-debate-questions-advance/


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-debate-question_us_5817a3b7e4b064e1b4b4367a

Moore was borne and raised in Flint...to see it's decline no matter who controlled the federal government is real and justified. The water situation was a litmus test everyone failed.

[JHan]

66. Okay..

The question remains: How do you think it changed the game? Again, how was it shocking that a question would be asked about the water crisis in flint? I knew a question would be asked about the water crisis in flint. My point is these were questions Clinton didn't need, and clearly didn't benefit from ( As your Huffington Post link points out, why was her answer so unsatisfactory if she had all the time to prepare for the question anyway)

Sketchy unethical behavior by Donna Brazille over obvious questions doesn't equal a primary being rigged. Even if Sanders were competitive during the primaries, it would still be lame evidence of "internal" rigging at the DNC.

The focus should not even be the primaries itself. If Moore actually cared, he would push for getting the debates out of the hands of the Corporate News Media Houses ( at least some of the debates). And while it was ethically sketchy what Donna did, it's hardly new in politics.

[Ninsianna]

310. If Moore gave a crap about Flint, he'd not have pushed the dumb lies he did

about the only chance Flint had for federal help. The candidate he maligned was the only one who actually sent people down there to see what could be done to help and educated them on what was needed and set up organizations and parternships to do something.

Moore's lies are not justified. The water situation was a litmus test HE failed, Clinton passed that one, doing as much as she had the power to, as the residents of Flint have said.

[betsuni]

313. But she diabolically "stole the election" so that doesn't count.

[Fred Sanders]

324. Obviously no amount of evidence will convince some...that Moore even loves his hometown....

kind of says it all.

[WhiteTara]

60. he's either idiotic or can't accept the reasons

He is a narcissist and thinks he's #1. He's a very substantial reason we are here today. It should have been Gore, not Bush in the White House and he has NEVER issued a mea culpa in the way of a film about how our country was stolen on 12 12 2000.

I tweeted him about this yesterday. I've decided I like twitter and I tweet right on out to all those people who either annoy me or make me proud. They may or may not personally read it, but others will.

[calimary]

63. Nobody seems to remember the first Democratic debate

in which NOBODY brought up the Flint water crisis - before Hillary did, or made any reference to it AL ALL. She used her closing statement not to make the usual platitudes. She went straight to the Flint water crisis, voicing the outrage we all felt - and still do feel, at this late date. She was the ONLY ONE who even brought it up. Didn’t wait to be asked.

Or maybe she did it because she had waited for a question about it to be asked - of ANY of what were then five Dems on that stage in that first debate. And the question was never asked. The issue never came up. And so she made her entire closing statement about the Flint Michigan water crisis. I remember marveling at that. She blew off the customary thank yous to the panel, the audience, her opponents, her followers, and used that key moment (so important when that’s your FINAL opportunity to make your case for your candidacy and leave ‘em with some memorable closing line). She threw that guidebook and the conventional wisdom away and made a vigorous appeal for serious attention to that water crisis.

[JHan]

69. thanks for that reminder, she made it an issue..

she even talked about "environmental racism", where was Moore then?

[Squinch]

59. The "scandal" was because, in the debate in Flint, she was told there would be a question

about the Flint water crisis.

The whole "scandal" was a lot of bro-manufactured bullshit, and Moore is STILL pushing that bullshit. It hurt her and it contributed to the situation we find ourselves in now.

Most recently, Moore was fawning over the non-voting asshole on Chris Hayes who said he didn't vote because he "wasn't inspired."

Moore is busy jumping sharks these days, as far as I can see. He is not helping Democrats. And these days, if you are not with us you are against EVERYBODY. So...

[Ninsianna]

91. he forgot that Bernie was given the same heads up.

That in Flint, they would be asked a question about Flint. This is a nonsense talking point used by people who believed stupid things about why their favorite did not win millions of votes by Americans who has heard of him, from him and about him and rejected him.

People talking about rigging and cheating are ones who don't understand how anything works or whi know their target audience is ignorant.

[brush]

160. IIRC the debate questions being given was during the general election.

[Fred Sanders]

163. The Washington Post, CNN and Donna Brazile disagree.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/07/donna-brazile-is-totally-not-sorry-for-leaking-cnn-debate-questions-to-hillary-clinton/?utm_term=.860e6dd92bd3

[CentralMass]

70. I voted for and strongly supported Hillary in 2008 ,voted for Bernie in 2016 and felt that the ..

DNC rigged the primary but voted for Hillary in the general. I'm Democrat, not a sycophant. Your argument doesn't make sense.

We lost that election and there were root causes for that loss. Voter turnout was abysmal. Hillary recieved 6 million fewer votes then President Obama did in 2012 and 10 million less the. he did in 2008.

Several studies, as reported by the WAPO show the Sanders primary voters voted for Hillary by a 2:1 margin in the general election over Hillary voters who voted for Senator Obama in 2008.

I haven't watched any of Moore's movies and don't watch Maher's show but I dont have any issues with him being critical of the party. I think that a lot of what he is saying has merit.

[Ninsianna]

93. Hiw did the DNC rig the primary and where are you getting these numbers from?

[lunamagica]

107. *Crickets*

[CentralMass]

125. The links.

On the prinary voter issue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/?utm_term=.87e4ab894214

"How many Sanders voters voted for Donald Trump?

Two surveys estimate that 12 percent of Sanders voters voted for Trump. A third survey suggests it was 6 percent.


First, the political scientist Brian Schaffner analyzed the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, which was conducted by YouGov and interviewed 64,600 Americans in October-November 2016. In that survey, Schaffner found that 12 percent of people who voted in the primary and reported voting for Sanders also voted in November and reported voting for Trump.

Second, the same 12 percent figure emerges in the 2016 VOTER Survey, which was also conducted by YouGov and overseen by the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group (of which I am research director). In 2016, this survey interviewed 8,000 respondents in July, when they were asked their primary vote preference, and then in December, when they were asked their general election preference. This has the advantage of measuring primary preference closer to the primaries themselves and then tracking people over time. But their turnout in both elections has not been validated as of yet.


The third survey is the RAND Presidential Election Panel Survey, which interviewed the same group of about 3,000 Americans six times during the campaign. Again, this survey has the advantage of tracking voters over time, but nobody’s turnout has been validated. Among voters who reported supporting Sanders as of March 2016, 6 percent then reported voting for Trump in November."

"Another useful comparison is to 2008, when the question was whether Clinton supporters would vote for Barack Obama or John McCain (R-Ariz.) Based on data from the 2008 Cooperative Campaign Analysis Project, a YouGov survey that also interviewed respondents multiple times during the campaign, 24 percent of people who supported Clinton in the primary as of March 2008 then reported voting for McCain in the general election."


On the voter turnout

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/11/10/why-did-trump-win-in-part-because-voter-turnout-plunged/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.83ab5fc545b0
"While Trump managed to gain an electoral college victory, not only did he get fewer votes than Hillary Clinton — a fact that, remarkably, seems to merit nothing more than a footnote in almost every discussion of the election — he got fewer votes than Mitt Romney in 2012, fewer votes than John McCain in 2008, and fewer votes than George W. Bush in 2004. In total, fewer than 26 percent of eligible American voters cast their ballots for the man who will occupy the Oval Office come January."

"What’s also important here is how poorly Hillary Clinton did. She got 6 million fewer votes than Barack Obama did in 2012, and nearly 10 million fewer than he did in 2008:"

[John Fante]

137. If 24% of Hillary voters truly voted for McCain, he would have won

the presidency.

Please explain how the primaries were stolen from Bernie. Proof would be nice, but I won't hold my breath waiting for it.

Hillary recieved just under 66 million votes in 2016. Obama, just over 66 million in 2012. Your numbers are waaay off.

[Ninsianna]

308. I think you forgot to answer my question.

Nothing in that link explains the conspiracy theory the propagandists have been pushing about how a political party that does not run any election somehow rigged anything?

Interesting, that the opinion writer forgot to correct for that little thing that affected 2016 that was in effect in 2008 and 2012, the VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

Historic voter suppression, Crosscheck, and the dedicated Russian hacking of the DNC, Voter Registration systems and the voting machines that were supposed to be so secure.

And yes enough Bernie voters were affected by the propaganda to affect the 2016 election, we literally saw the ballots in MI, Moore was talking about the tens of thousands who didn't fill in the top of the ballot, or mention the numerous others that wrote in Bernie or rude words, due to what Moore and the Russians were spreading around.

Without taking into account all these factors, it's ridiculous to compare numbers without context.

[betsuni]

314. +1

[R B Garr]

142. +1, "rigged" systems were also parroted by Trump.

Manafort and Devine both managed the opposition campaigns against Hillary. They both worked together before.

[CentralMass]

147. I posted the numbers links in another reply to my post. Regrading the rigging..

I have to leave and dont have time for multiple links but as a primer.

Superdelegates disproportionately declaring Early for Hillary in numerous states that Sanders won skewed rhe primary results and the media publicizing these skewed delegate counts altered public opinion and perception of the race. NH was the just the first incident.

ttps://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/10098414

At the polls Bernie Sanders won New Hampshire’s pledged delegates by a landslide 22 percent. Bernie Sanders received 60.4 percent of the poll vote, just about 150,000 votes. Clinton received 38 percent of the poll vote, tallying just about 95,000 votes. Yet, six Democratic New Hampshire superdelegates gave their support to Hillary Clinton, effectively erasing Sanders win, leading both candidates to leave the state with the same 15 delegates. The six votes of support by Governor Maggie Hassan, Representative Ann Kuster, Senator Jeanne Shaheen, and DNC members Bill Shaheen, Kathy Sullivan, and Joanne Dowdell, effectively erased the impact of 55,000 Democratic voters on this election.
By the numbers Sanders with his win, recieved 15 of 24 of the standard delegates and Hillary recieved 9. NH has 8 superdelegate 6 declared for Hillary and 2 chose not to declare yet. So the story was Hillary ties Sanders with 15 delegates each in his backyard.

Proportionally Sanders should have recieved 5 of the 8 Superdelegates by his margin of victory and the delegate count would have been reported as (15+5) versus (9+3) or Sanders with 20 delegates and Hillary with 12 delegates.
Those 6 super d's had the weight of and usurped the votes of 55,000 New Hampshire voters. This scenario repeated itself in numerous states.

[Ninsianna]

309. Sorry, but that doesn't seem to reflect a basic understanding of superdelegates

or of the word "rigging".

Is that the Huffington Post, which hosted the ever hilarious HA HA Goodman who kept spreading much propaganda and then outed himself as a Trumper?

Sanders didn't win VOTERS. Superdelegates had nothing to do with anything, Bernie lost in a landslide because voters didn't like his failure to back up his slogans with actual policy.

Superdelegates only have a vote at the Convention, after all the actual votes are tallied, and they didn't erase something that never existed in the first place.

I mean, when the guy who invented the system, before he ran off wreak havoc with murderous dictators and Manafort's boss, is the one leading the campaign, surely they should have educated their supporters better?

I mean if they had an actual desire to honestly run in race with something approaching integrity?

Instead they spouted outright lies to their followers, and then blamed the candidate who won in every race she ever ran, for the damage they did.

This is why Democrats are rightfully saying Moore, Hayes etc. are attacking the party and are not our allies.

Lots of this stuff with Assange with Moore and the emails they take out of context that he received from Putin and released. This is rather pungent BS and Moore needs to stop the toxicity, the people of Flint didn't buy any of this bullshit, it's why Clinton won in the primary and the general in that county.

[Fla Dem]

135. I don't know where you got your numbers from, but they're off.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election

Hillary Clinton received the 3rd largest popular vote in American history.
She received more popular votes than any other WHITE MALE candidate in American history.

More than GW Bush
More than Bill Clinton
More than GHW Bush
More than Ronald Reagan
More than John Kennedy, Dwight Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln.

She received 3,653,906 less votes than Barack Obama did in 2008, an historical Presidential election.
Hillary Clinton received 71,185 less votes than Barack Obama did in his 2nd election in 2012.

Voter turnout was not abysmal. It also was the 2nd highest number of voter participation for the two major candidates.
2008---129.5 million
2012---126.8 million
2016---128.8 million

If you're talking about rate of participation, here's an article

New report finds that voter turnout in 2016 topped 2012
BY REID WILSON - 03/16/17 03:00 AM EDT

More voters cast ballots in November’s elections than when President Obama won reelection in 2012, though the number of Americans who showed up to vote remains well below all-time highs set half a century ago.

About 139 million Americans, or 60.2 percent of the voting-eligible population, cast a ballot in November’s elections, according to data compiled by the U.S. Elections Project. That compares with 58.6 percent of eligible voters who turned out in 2012, but it’s below the 62.2 percent who turned out to help elect Obama for the first time in 2008.

Last year, President Trump won just shy of 63 million votes — enough to secure a majority of the Electoral College, even though he fell almost 3 million votes shy of his Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton.

The states where Trump and Clinton battled most fiercely also tended to be those where voter turnout was highest. Nine of the 13 states where voter turnout was highest were battleground states.

<<<snip>>>
Voter turnout in 2016 was the second-highest in the past half-century, after the 62.2 percent who turned out in 2008. Voter turnout topped 62 percent in all three presidential contests held in the 1960s, the most recent surge in voter participation.

Voter turnout most recently topped 65 percent in 1908, though among a much smaller population: Women did not get the right to vote until 1920.

more>>>>>
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/324206-new-report-finds-that-voter-turnout-in-2016-topped-2012

Having posted all of the above, I am not denying the HRC Campaign may have made some tactical errors, particularly where she campaigned. But it's time to look forward not back. Enough with the Hillary bashing and the attempts to divide Democrats, Liberals and Progressives, whatever they want to call themselves. We have three objectives, to take over the House and Senate in 2018 and the White House in 2020. That's it. We can only do that if we're united. Look forward not back.

[liberalnarb]

118. When did he say Hillary stole the primary?

[betsuni]

242. Evidently in his movie because Bill Maher asked him about it.

Bill says he came away from the movie thinking, "with that old Republican talking point you keep harping on, this notion, Oh, Crooked Hillary, she stole it from Bernie. But she didn't steal it from Bernie. She got a lot more votes."

Moore goes on to talk about superdelegates, did not really explain why he thinks the primary was rigged (or maybe he thinks the superdelegates did it). Maybe he explains in the movie.

[jrthin]

129. Exactly! With friends like this, who needs enemies

[DownriverDem]

96. Moore also said

after trump's win: As bad as you think it will be, it will be way worse. How right he was! I thought we would see the repubs in the House and Senate ramming bills through and trump signing them. Instead we wake up every day waiting to see what tweets and chaos trump will inflict on us and the world.

[lunamagica]

119. "Hillary stole the primaries from Bernie, vote for her" Yeah, that helped

[Cha]

305. MOre BULLSHIT from Moore.

[Cha]

199. Michael Moore is Full of Shite.. this is what he said in 2014 about President Obama..

Does he think people forget what his big bullshit mouth said?

Michael Moore calls Obama a ‘huge disappointment’

<Moore continued: “When the history is written of this era, this is how you’ll be remembered. He was the first black president. OK, not a bad accomplishment. But that’s it. That’s it, Mr. Obama. A hundred years from now, (it’ll be noted that) he was the first black American that got elected president. And that’s it — eight years of your life and that’s what people will remember.”>

https://nypost.com/2014/09/11/michael-moore-calls-obama-a-huge-disappointment/

BULLSHIT "..that's all what people will remember about President Obama". That's what Moore wishes.. ain't gonna happen.

Moore is a HUGE Disappointment.. Always Whining his Freaking head off about President Obama

[BootinUp]

32. Lol. Nt

[KPN]

33. Bashing? What exactly did he say?

[mountain grammy]

80. Honest criticism same as bashing on DU

Just a bit of hyperbole.

[Ninsianna]

97. what we have learned is that most of this bashing is dishonest and nonfactual

People.on DU, and on numerous sites really enjoying repeating dishonest propaganda and are resistant to facts while attacking thenpqety they claim to support.

You can tell because they engage in tired propaganda and can never back up anything, like how this "rigging" was supposed to occur.

Honesty is not the goal of these bashers of the party.

[brush]

165. We need support now of the party with Nov. looming, not critcism.

This is so obvious it shouldn't have to be said. If we don't win at least the House it's all downhill to trump and fascism.

The election is 40 some days away.

SUPPORT THE PARTY NOW. WE DON'T NEED CRITICISM THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD FOR US BUT ACTUALLY MAY TURN SOME VOTERS AWAY.

THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

[Cha]

205. Well, that's just it.. Michael Moore is a gd Liar.. so how is that

"honest"? Please tell us?

Link to tweet

"In new film, Michael Moore compares Trump to Hitler. And he's not so crazy about Obama, either."

"I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

"trump is comparable to hitler", but it's the Democratic Party(old guard).. Like John Lewis?.. that is the roadblock. He's an idiot.. and so Full of Shite.

[Honeycombe8]

247. Well, he didn't "bash" Obama. He said something about Obama pretending to drink Flint water.

If that's true, it's correct that he should point that out, because that would have an effect on how working class people view the Democrats and feel that they failed them and no one cares about him. That was Moore's purpose in telling that story.

I recall that Obama's visit to Michigan didn't go over that well, but I wasn't following the news closely at that time.

However, Moore did mention that the pipes haven't been replaced, and seemed to blame both major parties. I looked that up and found that Obama signed a $150 Million fund for Michigan to replace pipes & infrastructure related to the water. It didn't go through until 2017 (Trump took credit of course). I think it goes some of that money before 2017, but not sure. So I'm not sure why the pipes haven't been replaced.

And some or most of the issue lies with the state officials...their failures in so many ways.

Anyway, Michael Moore seems to be an equal opportunity criticizer.

I don't remember what he said bad about Hillary except that she didn't go campaign there...which is true. However, I'm not sure it's true that Obama pretended to drink the Flint water. That sounded to me like something Moore made up.

He did say that Obama was the best President we'll ever see in our lifetimes (meaning he was great).

[manor321]

3. Nonsense

The circular firing squad among progressives/Dems needs to be killed dead once and for all.

Moore is one of the leaders of the firing squad.

...because he understood the deep anger and frustration of so many in the heartland.

It was anger at white Christians not being in full control, not legitimate anger.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

9. Correct . . .

I understand what Michael Moore is doing here. Michael Moore is promoting Michael Moore. That is what Michael Moore is doing here, and, indeed, is all that Michael Moore ever does.

[LBM20]

17. Shallow thinking.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

120. "Shallow," perhaps, but, then again, maybe Occam's Razor . . .

In the case of Moore, believe me, I can go even "shallower" if I so desire -- e.g., to me, his sloppy, slovenly personal appearance is a pretty good reflection of the quality of his thinking.

[jcgoldie]

24. I agree

The reality is that Michael Moore's movies play much better when republicans are in charge. I'm not saying he's insincere, I just don't understand why you would go on an interview cycle to promote your new anti-Trump movie 6 weeks before the midterm elections and spend at least half of your time talking about how Hillary stole the democratic nomination and Obama drank fake water in Flint and made everyone stay home.

[comradebillyboy]

36. I must agree...

[LBM20]

14. No, and enough of ONLY the "white anger" point. That is shallow thinking. It was WAY more than that.

White anger was part of Trump's win but not nearly ALL of it. People lost their factories and strip malls and towns and lives as they knew it and were angry, and Trump was a big "fuck you!" to BOTH parties who they felt had failed them. Many registered Republicans voted for Trump because they felt they had nowhere else to go. MANY young people, low income people, and people of color who voted in 2008 and 2012 did not vote in 2016. That is just the indisputable fact. That was not a result of white anger. It was largely a result of voter apathy. Sure plenty of Trump's tribe are just racists and that was their motive. But it was not all of it by any stretch, and that it just the indisputable fact.

[jcgoldie]

28. People lost their factories and strip malls?

What are you talking about? People were angry because the president was black, "economic anxiety in the heartland" is just code for racism.

[Leighbythesea]

98. My personal experience but

Here it goes. I grew up in Michigan on the west side of the state (Republican). But the state was blue, union etc. My mother was progressive & educated.

I left for 20 years to enter the fashion industry. Did iI become coastal, elite, and out of touch? I would have told you NO,, I wasnt alwrays on a coast. Then l i moved back in August of 2016 (my mother has Alzheimer's).

My cousins HAD lost their facrory jobs starting in 2008 onward. There were malls and strip malls that looked hollowed out. There was new growth in medical. Good luck if you weren't in that field. People were angry and under-employed. Trump yard signs were everywhere. It was an awakening for me.

I started a masters. I couldnt get a job at the 2 fashion companies in my area. I lived 10 blocks from one. My dad had worked there (not in design or merchandising) and I knew VP level people. I am director level so there just never was that level available. As a matter of fact, companies have been eliminating middle levels consistently in fashion. (So that is my own specific challenge). And I recognize that part contributes uniquely.to my story.

Coming back to that area at this time was a risk. One I regret.

My husband couldnt find work but he is now FT, but at a lower pay scale. My theory is moving to north Dakota would have been about the same.

That I grew up there made zero difference. That my cousins didn't have the mobility to leave the state is probably common. Did I become down-trodden, disillusioned and bitter. YES. Am I still fact based and liberal. Yes.

But where's the "line" for an independent, or non-voter type? Where do they say, well I'm not strongly one party or another, and this sucks? I give up. Or, blow it up?

I see what Michael Moore sees, especially as Michigan as your back drop.

Side note. I have a house in another state near by. I'm doing contract work for a brand, for the last month. I found out Friday they are making me a job offer. Happy happy news. But I have a saying too--It's all bullshit til theres a contract in your hand.

It's a level lower than I was.. But its 2 YEARS LATER and the terrible "experiment", as I have come to call it, may be over.

But what happened? I left the state. I have 2 houses, lucky me! My husband won't move where I am because:

A- my mother still has Alzheimer's. (And already had polio her whole life)

B-We have custody of kids recently and the oldest has a disability. Don't want to move a kid given the last couple of years. Long story.

C-My only sister who could help with my mom was diagnosed with MS six months ago. She's 11 years younger than me, and has 4 kids. Also in my industry. Miraculously had found a job in southern Michigan at a pay cut. Shes got her own big chalkenges.

My life was ok. Then it blew up. Now I've struggled back. But with SO many advantages. This is how poor people become regionally trapped too I see. Family circumstances.


Michael Moore has always discussed the blue collar guy and still is.
And you can be bull-dozed out there. We all know it.

I am not mad in, or at, this thread. I just crossed over for a time to the "hard" side. One where I contemplated minimum wage and poverty became a real spectre.

YET
It was not my life condition. I didnt understand.
Until I did.

[spooky3]

143. That is a lot of challenges to face. Good luck to you.

[deancr]

157. Thank you

I have lived in Michigan my entire life. Yours is accurate and honest appraisal. I've lived in northern rural Michigan for 30 plus years working labor jobs, never management or professional. I get these folks who voted for Trump. It was surely, largely racism, but also desperation fueled by decades of hate propaganda that caused the Trump vote. Not an excuse, but an explanation.

My wife and I have been lucky in that we never had crushing economic misfortune and have a shot at dignified retirement. It was not always so and we spent too long seeing through the eyes of poverty. That desperation has spread broadly in these decades since Reagan started the dismantling of the middle-class.

We have enemies aplenty. Michael Moore is not among them.

Michael Moore has done a great deal to lead by example here in the Traverse City area. I have had the pleasure of seeing his impact on local politics through his "walking the walk" by quietly, selflessly building community here. None of that gets national press, but it has helped modify this area. An area that has been republican since the civil war.

That is to say, you get it. And thank you.

[jcgoldie]

164. Thanks for sharing your story

And I'm not trying to disregard your personal experience of hardships and persistence when I point out that the economic data do not support the thesis that a greater number of people were facing greater economic instability in Obama's 2nd term. Something else was driving that "righteous anger" that made people vote for a racist zealot in Trump because they certainly weren't worse off in 2016 than they were in in 2008.

I'm from rural southern Illinois where a lot of the small towns may as well be in Alabama. People fly confederate flags and paint them on the windows of their trucks despite zero historical connection to the confederacy. I live in a farm community and I saw firsthand on a daily basis the "angry" poor white working class. By and large these people weren't angry because they suffered more economic anxiety or instability than previously. They were angry that the president was black and they were angry that Hillary Clinton is an "uppity" woman.

[betsuni]

240. "they certainly weren't worse off in 2016 than they were in 2008" So true!

[spooky3]

49. Several studies have shown that racism and sexism,

Rather than economic standing or anxiety, accounted for 2016 results. There is also research showing that voter suppression rather than apathy was the primary reason that voter turnout among people of color was lower in 2016–where it was lower.

[JI7]

124. yup, this election was after the court struck down voting rights

which would not have happened if more people supported al gore and didn't lie and say he was the same as bush.

[liberalnarb]

127. Racism and sexism accounted for votes for Trump. One of Moore's points is that the largest

political force in the American populous is what he calls the "Nonvoter Party". Those who choose not to participate outnumber those that vote for Dems of repugs.

[USALiberal]

229. 120 Recs says your wrong! nt

[Ninsianna]

311. Also, the votes of the heartland and Flint spoke volumes, they chose Hillary.

[klook]

4. Looking forward to Fahrenheit 11/9

I'm planning to see it this week!

Many got bent out of shape over the Chris Hayes Flint broadcast and miss the point tha MM is on our side.

[comradebillyboy]

37. Just like Susan Sarandon is on our side...

[klook]

45. No comparison, but hey, keep trying. (nt)

[MrsCoffee]

50. They said the same things.

[paleotn]

73. Those so simplistic its laughable.

[jcgoldie]

6. "he understood the deep anger and frustration of so many in the heartland"

i.e. racism. Not sure I understand how that is Hillary Clinton's fault or Barack Obama's as he seems to contend:

[dalton99a]

7. Why the attacks against Obama and Pelosi - just before the midterms?

I liked what he did and paid money to see his other movies. No, not a dime from me

[LBM20]

16. No, he has said he LOVES Obama time and again. It was just about his response to the Flynt water

crisis and how that was fumbled and in order to explain why many in Flynt stayed home in 2016.

[Fred Sanders]

38. He said he very much loves Obama and he is the greatest President of all time! On Bill Maher just

2 days ago.

Can folks pillaging Moore just put that on "ignore".

The OP describes Moore's prediction of a Trump win very accurately...it I was not a prediction, it was a warning that Trump was in position to hit an inside straight on the River.

[Tom Rinaldo]

47. The man is FROM Flint

I am extremely upset about what that city was put through, but it isn't personal for me the way it must be for someone who lives and/or grew up there. Yeah, he wishes Obama hadn't vouched for Flint's water, that upset him. Honestly, I can understand that reaction from someone with deep roots in Flint. However on the whole he still remains pro-Obama.

[jcgoldie]

51. Larry Flynt?

Sorry I could not resist.

[Tom Rinaldo]

52. Fair enough, ya got me. I get lazy checking spellings. Corrected now, Thanks. n/t

[JHan]

55. What he's peddling is disinformation.

Obama said that once filters were installed, the water will be okay as a short-term measure. He stressed getting kids tested. He called for a state of emergency and called for all children to be tested for lead poisoning.

"If you’re using a filter, if you’re installing it, then Flint water at this point is drinkable."

In Michael Moore's brain, this equals: Obama's response to Flint was shitty. This is what's called a cheap shot.

Noting that it's a cheap shot doesn't detract away from important issues he raised. But it's still a cheap shot at the end of the day.

[Gothmog]

182. Moore is not credible on this or other issues

[betsuni]

250. Especially if you make documentaries.

Way to ruin your reputation. People are going to feel they can't trust him, find him unlikable.

[hlthe2b]

10. I think when one has to translate another's message & motives to those who have always supported ...

that is NOT a good thing. Always liked Moore, but I'm not with him on this equating "both sides" tact, at all.

His heart might remain in the "right" place, but, his current "tact" is SOOO not helpful.

[Gothmog]

11. Moore's rants are no longer amusing or relevant to me

I stopped paying attention to Michael Moore a while back. I will not watch his new movie

[LBM20]

19. Hopefully when he rants to vote in November in order to wipe out the R's that is relevant for you.

[Gothmog]

48. Moore does not care about the party

Moore is not a friend of the party. He only cares about his platform. I would be please but surprised if Moore does anything to help Democrats get elected. Moore is a great deal like Sarandon.

If Moore wants to get Democrats elected in November, he would not be attacking President Obama

[Gothmog]

344. How does attacking President Obama and the Democratic Party help voter turnout?

Real Democrats are not going to listen to Moore or care about his attacks on President Obama and the Democratic Party

[BlueJac]

12. I will watch this movie...

saw him with Bill Maher. He wants the Democrats to win big in November, and he said President Obama was the best President during Moore's lifetime. Has anyone seen Active Measures? A must see movie!

[BannonsLiver]

23. Yeah I watched Active Measures Friday night

And anyone who wants a focused, informative film about trump and Russia should check it out, rather than another one of moore’s unfocused messes full of his self agrandizing circus antics and Dem bashing.

[sheshe2]

15. No misunderstanding.

Published on Sep 13, 2014


"Political documentarian Michael Moore has repeatedly expressed his frustrations with President Obama, but this week he really stuck the knife in, saying in an interview that Obama will be remembered as the first black president and “that’s it.”

[LBM20]

27. Moore said Obama did some good things but is showing disappointment that he didn't do more. So,

he does go too far, but I entirely agree that while in many ways Obama was a very good and honorable president, he was not strong enough in pushing an agenda and failed to build the party as he should have. He was a transformative campaigner but a transactional politician in office and not a gloves-off fighter as we wanted and needed and as he had campaigned. Under his watch, the party got wiped out all over the country.

That said, Obama is brilliant, honorable, and did some good things. And he is now very missed especially in comparison to the circus clown Trump.

[BannonsLiver]

31. So GD patronizing

But hey at least you didn’t note that he was “just so articulate” as well.

[Ron Green]

58. Not "patronizing" at all; this post is the truth.

Stop with the bullshit, please.

[BannonsLiver]

62. You first

[elleng]

21. THANKS, LBM.

The circular firing squad among progressives/Dems needs to be killed dead once and for all.

[G_j]

190. On DU?

never

[Scurrilous]

22. It appears to be a big dud.

"Michael Moore’s latest documentary, “Fahrenheit 11/9,” should earn about $3.13 million from 1,719 locations in its debut, far below initial estimates in the $5 million to $8 million range."

https://variety.com/2018/film/box-office/house-with-a-block-in-its-walls-box-office-fahrenheit-11-9-life-itself-assassination-nation-1202953578/

[BannonsLiver]

26. That's great news. Thanks for posting.

[LBM20]

29. May be due to Trump fatigue. So many books, other films, etc.

[lunamagica]

92. No, I don't think so. The books have been huge hits. The problem is that he is attacking Democrats.

Republicans despise him and Democrats will not support a movie critical of Democrats coming out just weeks before the midterms. The timing is awful

So, who is his audience? I'm sure the Sarandons and the bros are loving it, but their numbers are just not enough to deliver a box office hit for Moore

[Gothmog]

184. Yeah

People are boycotting this movie

[lunamagica]

88. GOOD!

[ProfessorPlum]

115. Wtf

Is this nonsense

[lunamagica]

117. The less people see Democrats being bashed just weeks before the midterms, the better

[ProfessorPlum]

159. And yet here you are

Wishing harm to an extremely effective and energetic ally.

[lunamagica]

170. I'm hoping he is not effective in his bashing of Democrats, and I don't

consider anyone who bashes Democrats so close to the midterms an ally.

Why did he release this movie NOW? Couln't he have waited until November or December?

[ProfessorPlum]

194. He does a lot more than "bashing Democrats"

But you know that

[lunamagica]

198. "He does a lot more than "bashing Democrats", right, but he DOES bash Democrats, as you

just admitted.

There no excuse for bashing Democrats just weeks before the crucial midterms.

[ProfessorPlum]

201. No I said "bashing Democrats", your phrase

[Gothmog]

187. Moore is not an ally of the party

I am glad that this movie is doing poorly

[Gothmog]

105. Yeah

I will not support Moore

[zentrum]

25. Agree. Thank you.

But hold onto your seat.

[RandiFan1290]

30. I was here in 2004

and the same crowd was trashing him for making Fahrenheit 9/11

This is nothing new on DU

[Hassin Bin Sober]

43. Republicans and Reagan Democrats have always hated the guy.

[R B Garr]

79. "Reagan Democrats" have a specified definition and demographics.

It’s laughable how it is misused consistently by some who want to distort the true meaning. Look up the actual definition and see which candidate pandered to them more.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

234. You mean by sponsoring wars and flag burning legislation and banning gay marriage?

[R B Garr]

257. Trying to smear Democrats by calling them

“Reagan Democrats” is bogus, lol. Reagan Democrats are a certain demographic. You can look it up. You can look up that it is mostly about regional white working class. Pulling things out of the air about this and that grievance doesn’t fit the definition of Reagan Democrats.

[betsuni]

307. I don't think there will be any looking things up.

More fun to make up your own meaning for words, as long as they bash Democrats.

[betsuni]

306. Talking point: insinuating DU members are "Reagan Democrats"

The early 80s called, they want "Reagan Democrats" back.

[Cha]

303. Bullshit.

I appreciated 9/11.

[betsuni]

316. "the same crowd": Democrats were trashing Fahrenheit 9/11? No they weren't.

Oh, Randi.

[Fred Sanders]

35. Thanks. Wrote an OP before I saw your more excellent one in defence of Moore. Totally agree.

[we can do it]

40. So tired of him and "both sides are the same".

[ismnotwasm]

41. He did "predict" Trump

But in retrospect the signs were all there, Nate Silver, for instance, took a bunch of shit for his less than shiny polling. Truth is, Donald Trump should never have happened, he’s disgusting.

I’m not inclined to give Moore a pass for political prescience, given how complex the situation actually is.

I don’t like Moore. I don’t pay attention to his shit, I’ve seen maybe one of his movies, forget which one. That doesn’t mean I don’t think he hasn’t done some good work, it means he’s not the first, or even fifteenth source I use for a damn thing. He wants a shiny revolution in a country that allowed Donald Trump to be in the first place. Bashing Democrats is not the way to go about it.

What is happening now, with women and people of color running and winning and serving as elected officials of the Democratic Party, is.

[Squinch]

61. He also predicted Romney would win. If you predict the Republican every time, sometimes you'll be

right. But he also shouldn't be surprised when Democrats start giving him the side-eye.

[ismnotwasm]

85. Very true.

[rainy]

53. You are so right! Thank you. It was disturbing

reading all the dumping on Moore here.

[watoos]

64. Wow

Putin and his Republican friends must be jolly over this thread.

Can we bash Avenatti here too? He is getting pretty popular.

[paleotn]

74. Bingo.

Them Democrats have meet their worst enemy and he is us.

[denvine]

76. I agree!

I will not disparage anyone who is trying to get out the vote. Yes he does criticize some in our party but anyone who thinks Democrats are perfect are not willing to see the big picture. If everything in the Democratic party was great, we would be in power right now. Talking about mistakes in the past should make our future better if we learn from them.

[Power 2 the People]

67. +1

[paleotn]

71. Ugh...

When oh when will we learn the difference between criticisms and attacks. Criticisms, in this context, are meant to make fellow Dems and Progressives better. To bring up valid points that need to be addressed. Attacks are thrown around by those who don't agree with us in essence and substance. Republicans attack Democrats because they don't follow our fundamental narrative or belief system. Michael Moore agrees with our fundamental narrative and belief system. Is Moore right all the time? Hell no, but neither am I and goddamn it neither are YOU!

The premise behind this is NO ONE IS PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not Barack Obama. Not Hillary Clinton. Not Bernie Sanders. Not Mahatma fucking Gandhi. We all benefit from well meant criticism. When we go off the rails, and we all do, it gets us back on track. When we're wrong, it points out to us why we're wrong. And if we've got one whit of sense, we recognize it's for our own good. One thing I love about the Democratic Party is we're don't do lock step, salute das fuhrer like Republicans. If one of our own is wrong about something, we will damn well point it out and NOT DO Republican, logical gymnastics to cover it up.

Damn it folks, politics is a human endeavor and has no room for cult of personality bullshit!

[mountain grammy]

86. Hear,hear!!! +1000

[Cha]

208. Michael Moore is a Liar.. and Yes I know I'm posting this a lot .. with no response so far, btw.

Link to tweet

"In new film, Michael Moore compares Trump to Hitler. And he's not so crazy about Obama, either."

"I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

"trump is comparable to hitler", but it's the Democratic Party(old guard).. Like John Lewis?.. that is the roadblock. He's an idiot.. and so Full of Shite.

[shanny]

90. Amen.

Even great presidents make mistakes (see FDR and the internment camps).

[scarletwoman]

109. Bravo! Exactly this:

Michael Moore agrees with our fundamental narrative and belief system.

That's what matters, thank you.

[lunamagica]

113. Saying that Hillary stole the primaries is a clear attack.

[uponit7771]

148. This ... SEEMS ... like an attack due to ignoring outside interference !!! It existed and HAS TO BE

... factored in.

NOT factoring it in is Flat Earth logic

[Cha]

206. Michael Moore is a GD Liar. How's that for criticism?

Link to tweet

"In new film, Michael Moore compares Trump to Hitler. And he's not so crazy about Obama, either."

"I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

"trump is comparable to hitler", but it's the Democratic Party(old guard).. Like John Lewis?.. that is the roadblock. He's an idiot.. and so Full of Shite.

[onecaliberal]

207. Precisely! So very succinct and spot on.

[Duppers]

75. K & R

[Farmer-Rick]

78. Wow, after reading some of the comments on your post

You have proved your point in your first line.

Moore is supporting Dems. It's that simple. Trying to get DU up in arms over some nit picky crap that Moore said on a comedy show or over the past 5 years is very Russian Troll like behavior.

We shoud accept all the help we can get to save our democracy.

[watoos]

84. Well said

I believe Barack Obama was one of our nation's best presidents, but can I not also say that there are some things he did that I totally to this day oppose? It's not an either or choice for me that if I liked Obama I am not allowed to say that he did some things I disagree with.

What matters beyond all of this bullshit is we need to vote. We need to vote in numbers that overcome the rigged voting machines. We need to be sure our neighbors and friends vote, take them to the polls if necessary.

VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE

November can't get here fast enough for me, it also is the start of college wrestling season.

[mountain grammy]

87. From another Farmer, thank you!

[G_j]

196. wishful thinking

“We shoud accept all the help we can get to save our democracy.”


There are a few here who don’t even seem to sleep. It’s as if they are awake 24/7. Mention MM, Bernie or a few others and presto! I’m afraid they are a fixture.

[Farmer-Rick]

239. Yes, bots never sleep.

[LakeArenal]

81. Sounds all so decisive.

Don’t know why DU gets in big debates about Moore or Sarandon.

They come out when they want media coverage. Say insane things like Trump will be our last president. Media gets them lots of coverage.

Then DU takes sides. If this thread likes Moore and you don’t, don’t play into it.

We have so many Moore important things to be agitated about than Moore.

[violetpastille]

82. Moore is not a Democrat

Michael Moore is a registered Independent.

If he "supports Democrats" so much why can't he believe in the cause enough even to register as one?

[QC]

233. Why can't he be more like that nice Joe Manchin?

Now there's a Real Democrat!

[betsuni]

244. Talking point: Because Joe Manchin exists, both parties are the same.

[Cha]

300. Michael Moore wants YOU to "Embrace trump"

“But I think we have to embrace Trump,” Moore said in the interview. “People reading this will say, ‘What do you mean? Embrace Trump?’ But we have to embrace him. We have to listen to him. He’s telling lies, and he’s telling the truth at the same time"

From the WaPo intro.. "Moore argues that Barack Obama and the Dems share the blame with trump for the state of state of the country."

"No. I'm against hope,” called back Moore. “Hope was back then with Obama. I'm for a generation of action."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

Bitter Divider Michael Moore.

[Perseus]

83. "Moore was one of the few correct in predicting Trump's inside-straight win in 2016"

The danger with what Moore did during the election with those predictions is that some people actually become discouraged when they believe what Moore was saying and do not vote. In my humble opinion, I don't believe the republicans won anything, not the presidency, congress or senate posts, I am convinced (I understand that I don't have proof) that all the results were the product of cheating and Russia helping, and that is why so many republicans are afraid to contradict the idiot, because he has them by the balls.

Moore's predictions do not help, his calling the man-child an "evil" genius" doesn't help, and the fact that his brainless base only hears "genius", they can't hear the "evil" part.

I like M. Moore, and I do believe he does the country a good service, but some of his comments need to be thought out better by him, if you feel your comments can have a negative impact, then keep then to yourself, action do have consequences.

[scarletwoman]

112. He was sounding a warning: "Do not be complacent about having this election in the bag." nt

[Squinch]

152. Moore also predicted a Romney win.

[Adrahil]

89. Whenever I see him doing his "Democrats are at fault too" schtick....

I no longer wonder why so many just feel discouraged and stay at home.

Moore is smug, and he is just plain wrong.

[lunamagica]

95. Sorry, he is not getting a penny from me

Let's see Sarandon and the bros flock to this movie. It looks like that's his audience.

Me? I rather support Democrats.

[scarletwoman]

100. Thank you. You speak for me.

It's exceedingly tiresome, the habit of some people to declare enmity against anyone who dares utter any words of criticism toward their political idols.

No one is sacred and without fault - not Moore, not Obama, not Clinton. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses, each has their part to play in the ongoing endeavor of creating a better country.

I'm glad and grateful to have Michael Moore as an ally in our collective fight against the dark side.

[icaria]

104. Not perfect, but generally a voice from the Left

We must acknowledge that he is a voice from the Left and there are precious few of those. He isn't perfect but in my mind he provides some balance against the screeching, hateful voices of the Right. It's fine to criticize him, but it might be good to distinguish that criticism from the screeching hate for anyone who expresses compassion for the working class.

[ProfessorPlum]

116. Thank you I very much agree

Moore has been pushing progressive ideas for decades, is fearless, and humane.

[dembotoz]

123. Very much so

[Hortensis]

346. Do you actually believe Obama told Flint parents

their water was okay for their children to drink?

What kind of person would lie like that about Obama? And why? Moore did. And not at all accidentally. He's been sliding dishonest shivs in for decades. The cover provided by reasonable criticisms does not fool honest people. That requires pretending such egregious lies aren't part of his product, or perhaps being unable to recognize them.

I've come to believe, btw, that most people who behave like Moore can't help themselves. Yes, they are left and also take moral positions and say honest things.

But their defining malice toward whatever group is largest and most powerful on the left rules them emotionally and must always come out. The more passionate the malice, the more extreme all the twists and lies to "justify" it. So Moore blasts Obama for supporting the poisoning of children, not really all that different from the right.

[Kurt V.]

122. thanks for the great post

[tiredtoo]

126. It never ceases to amaze me

When i come to this site and see Democrats attacking other Democrats. At this time our total focus should be on getting Democratic candidates elected no matter their leanings. Divide and conquer still works well for the repugs, why do we constantly fall for it? Personally I agree with some of the things Moore said. But that does not mean i did not support either Obama or Hillary. I worked as much as possible in support of both of them in their campaigns.

[Leighbythesea]

130. Thanks I agree

My post is buried in a sub thread above, but my story is a Michigan based "what-the-hell-is-happening" and gave me extra perspective.

I think Michael Moore gets a lot right. And his main message is vote! Why is that not enough to put him squarely on the citizens side.

[still_one]

131. No Michael Moore has NOT always supported Democrats, and in 2000 when he said that a vote for Gore

Last edited Sun Sep 23, 2018, 05:39 PM - Edit history (1)

was a vote for bush to a crowd of thousands of people, his intentions were quite clear.


Michael Moore also said that Romeny was going to win. Well he was wrong. Moore's prognostic skills are not that attuned.

He will do whatever he needs to do to get attention.


During the women's unity march, which was ABOUT WOMEN UNIFYING after trump won, Moore took it upon himself to take the opportunity to start bashing the so-called establishment Democrats, until Ashley Judd cut him short in midsentence, and pushed the divisive bullshit that he was pontificating out the door.

There is a time and a place for everything.

Right before critical elections, or events whose goal is to unify Democrats, and get them out to vote is NOT the time to start bashing Democrats

It is NOT unusual for Moore, doing this bullshit right before a critical election.

He predicted the 2016, bullshit at the time when a good number of self-identified progressives were conning enough people NOT to vote for the Democratic nominee in 2016 by either voting third party, or NOT voting, and that didn't just apply to the President.

EVERY DEMOCRAT running for Senate in the critical swing states lost to the incumbent, establishment, republican, and most of those Democrats were progressive by any standard.

Hillary lost in each one of those states by less than 1%, and that 1% was just the percentage of votes that Jill Stein received.

People are not going to be duped again by his demoralizing bullshit to get attention this time

People want to make excuses for him, that is their right, but I perceive he is back to his usual green party bullshit that he was pushing in 2000, about the false equivalency between the two parties.

That he throws the Flint crisis on the back of President Obama completely ignores the fact that it was the STATE and LOCAL elected officials in Michigan, that the people in Michigan voted for who created that situation, and part of the reason I suspect they voted those representatives in was because of the false equivalency LIES that were spewed by some of those self-identified progressives who actively campaigned as such.

Well, those damn ESTABLISHMENT DEMOCRATS, were the ones who gave us Medicare, the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, and Supreme Court justices like Rose Ginsberg, so his holier than thou of the ills of establishment Democrats, completely ignores the fact that the Democratic party IS NOT A MONOLITHIC PARTY, just as this country isn't a monolithic country. Howard Dean demonstrated that with his 50 state strategy.

[lunamagica]

132. Hear hear!

[dalton99a]

134. +1. In politics, timing is everything.

Exhibit A: Comey memo

[Gothmog]

169. Moore supported Nader and Moore is responsible for the Iraq war, Citiizens United and the gutting of

the Voting Rights Act.

Moore was wrong then and he is wrong now

[still_one]

225. I woulldn't say that, but I would say that he helped lead a lot of guilible naive people from voting

for Gore which were one of the factors responsible for the what you just stated

[Gothmog]

262. Nader, Moore and Sarandon need to take responsibility for the 2000 election

[still_one]

286. Nader and Sarandon have no remorse or regrets. Moore did express remorse on Bill Maher's show, but

how sincere that was I have to wonder since he tends scape goat what he refers to as establishment Democrats for all the ills of the Democratic party, at the most inopportune time, right before critical elections when unity is paramount

He is not a stupid person, and the timing is not an accident in my view, which implies to me his motives are not the most honorable, and attention getting to sell what ever medium he has just produced. It is not a coincidence that the media has been reporting on Moore's 11/9 movie, and having him on interviews which I suspect would not be as frequent had he not criticized President Obama and the Democratic party in the movie.

[Gothmog]

293. Moore is not an ally of the Democratic Party and it is in his best efforts to hurt the party

Moore is not trying to GOTV but is trying to hurt the party

[still_one]

297. I agree

[uponit7771]

133. *** BULLSHIT !!! *** Where is the mention of Russia !?!? Either they DID or DID NOT interfere !!!

[dalton99a]

136. .

[uponit7771]

146. It's flat Earth logic to ignore outside factors like voter suppression and Russian interference.

He can say Russia x 1000 that still doesn't mean the interference didn't exist.

[violetpastille]

150. This is not just covered on Russia Television

Last edited Sun Sep 23, 2018, 06:23 PM - Edit history (1)

Googling: "Michael Moore Russia Russia Russia" (a play on Jan Brady's "Marcia Marcia Marcia&quot The Hill, Salon.com and others quote his rant on "corporate media" waving the "shiny keys" of the Russia Investigation and Stormy Daniels in our faces instead of the "real issues". For instance the West Virginia teachers strike. And Bernie Sanders (?!)

There is a lot to unpack here.

But at the end of the day as long as someone is registered Democrat and votes exclusively Democratic at every election I'm cool with them giving their attention to Michael Moore. Michael Moore himself has not and does not, however.

[moondust]

138. My problem is the timing.

He releases his film "criticizing" both sides 44 days before a critical midterm election. I suspect very few Trumpanzees will see the film and the ones that do will simply ignore his criticism of their Rump.

That leaves the left, some of whom didn't vote in 2016 because of the criticisms of Democrats. So what happens when MM reminds them of their dissatisfactions with Democrats and perhaps some Russian bots pick up on his criticisms and push them 24/7? Is MM trying to suppress Democratic turnout by releasing it so close to the election? Is that his plan? Does he, too, work for Vladdy Daddy?

[lunamagica]

153. Spot on analysis and great question

[violetpastille]

161. I shudder to think of the Kompromat eom

[stopbush]

139. Actually, Moore was 100% wrong about the reasons behind Hillary losing the EC.

Did Moore ever say she would win the popular vote by 3-million but lose the EC? No.

Did Moore ever say that tRump was conspiring with the Russians, not only to discourage voters voting for Hillary through their social negative media campaigns, but to also flip votes in the machinery, as now seems to be the case? No.

Did Moore point out that voter suppression efforts by the Rs in key states was going to deny the people their choice? No.

No, with Moore it’s all about what a bad candidate Hillary was, how she didn’t address middle-class issues, even while any idiot who bothered to look at her platform knew definitively that she not only addressed every one of these issues honestly (unlike Sanders), but that she disclosed how she was going to pay for everything she proposed.

[ProfessorPlum]

155. Way to miss the point

[stopbush]

162. Way to believe a line of self-serving bs.

[Gothmog]

168. No, it is you who is missing the point

Trying to cram the views of an idiot like Michael Moore down our throats is not doing to work. We know what moore stands for and we disagree with his opinions

I am glad that his movie is flopping at the box office.

[betsuni]

246. Correct.

[Cha]

266. Thank You, stopbush, for calling out Michael Moore on his BullShit.

[MountCleaners]

140. Moore did something stupid in 2000

A lot of people took the DLC's explicit condescension toward "the little guy" to heart and thought they were out of the party, and endorsed Nader. They underestimated the threat from the right. It was a mistake, and four years later, Moore begged Nader not to run. I think some people need to get over it. Used to be on DU, people said we need those Nader voters.

Moore is from the left and you can't expect him to be uncritical of Clinton and Obama. I associate cults of personality with the idiotic thinking of the right wing and Democrats should be better than that. I cringe at some of the posts I see here sometimes. You can't attack the lack of education on the part of right-wing voters and then behave with religiosity toward Democrats. We're better than that, or should be.

I have mixed feelings on Moore, but people need to get over their anger and spend more of their energy opposing the right wing.

[Gothmog]

167. Moore and Sarandon both endorsed and voted for Nader

Moore has never apologized for this stupidity. A vote for Nader was a vote for W

[Honeycombe8]

258. Moore's vote probably didn't make a difference in Michigan. But by FL, it was clear...

it was close, and it was Bush or Gore. That was it. There's no way anyone who voted third party did not understand that Bush would likely win. Florida is/was a swing state, but leans right. The polls reflected how close it was. Nader knew very well what he was doing. He was intentionally disrupting the election, to make points for his so-called movement. He said both of the major parties were the same.

[Cha]

267. Moore needs to get over his Bitterness and concentrate on the RW.

[Owl]

173. K&r

[The Wizard]

180. Who are these trolls who

come on this site to create division and disruption to the mission at hand. Either we stay focused on the midterms or marginalize our Party. Knock off the cheap shit.

[jcgoldie]

221. When people disagree with you it doesn't make them "trolls"

Moore is being criticized for exactly what you are accusing his critics of doing... sewing division among democrats immediately prior to the midterms.

[melman]

204. I think 'misunderstanding' is too generous an interpretation

For what is very deliberate trashing, bashing and ugly negativity from people that seem to contribute little else.

[sheshe2]

232. Then perhaps he should stop.

[Demsrule86]

210. Michael Moore with other like Susan Sarandon shares the blame for 2016

He recently bashed Obama and Hillary...Moore is dead to me. All Democrats running need support period...not just the darlings of Sarandon and Moore.

[elmac]

219. I'm ony here to comment on the spectacular circular firing squad that is being carried here

I'm sure putin and the Government Of Putin, GOP, would be very happy with this disgraceful display.

[elmac]

220. When we start destroying fellow progressives we are destroying any chance of ridding

this country of fascists. What we will get, if this crap keeps up, is 4 more years of tRump and the Government Of Putin.

[Cha]

224. Michael Moore is a Liar and a Divider.. I'm Not supporting that Bullshit.

Link to tweet

"In new film, Michael Moore compares Trump to Hitler. And he's not so crazy about Obama, either."

"I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

"trump is comparable to hitler", but it's the Democratic Party(old guard).. Like John Lewis?.. that is the roadblock. He's an idiot.. and so Full of Shite.

[elmac]

327. oh my

cry me a river

[Cha]

333. Yeah, I know you don't care if the LIAR MM calls trump "hitler"

and says he's less of a "roadblock" than the Democratic Party to social progress".


Oh and be sure and listen to Moore when he tells you to "Embrace trump".

“But I think we have to embrace Trump,” Moore said in the interview. “People reading this will say, ‘What do you mean? Embrace Trump?’ But we have to embrace him. We have to listen to him. He’s telling lies, and he’s telling the truth at the same time"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

[still_one]

230. Perhaps it would be instructive if you would look at see who is attacking who, and who is the one

sending the message of demoralizing and dividing Democrats right before the critical midterm elections.

[elmac]

325. perhaps you should. nt

[still_one]

329. Predictable. Have a nice day

[Cha]

334. Yes, so predictable. Are they going to Follow MM into "Embracing trump", too?

like he tells them, too?

“But I think we have to embrace Trump,” Moore said in the interview. “People reading this will say, ‘What do you mean? Embrace Trump?’ But we have to embrace him. We have to listen to him. He’s telling lies, and he’s telling the truth at the same time"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

[still_one]

335. WOW!!! With that statement, Moore is even more incoerhent and irrelevent

[Cha]

338. Yes, Michael Moore has No credibility whatsoever.

"Embrace trump "

[Gothmog]

340. I stopped paying attention to Moore a while back

Moore has no credibility and I am glad that his latest movie bombed

[elmac]

330. one good thing about this thread

it gives me a chance to populate my ignore list with progressive haters!

[betsuni]

337. Are you calling progressives haters? That's not very nice!

[OilemFirchen]

236. Where is there evidence that DoD was "using Flint as target practice"?

The story peppers a few right and left-wing conspiracy sites, along with Jade Helm hilarity, but, as far as I can tell, no legitimate media reported on this. Moore says that it was "under-reported", but that would also appear to be a lie. It was not reported. Why is that?

BTW, on Obama's drinking habits:

https://www.cnn.com/2016/05/04/politics/obama-flint-michigan-visit/index.html

Obama spoke following a briefing from officials on response efforts to the lead poisoning, which includes new money for filters and expanded access to blood tests for children.

After the session, Obama took a sip from a glass of filtered Flint water, insisting that residents should feel safe doing the same. Later, he called on a staffer to deliver a glass of filtered water during his remarks, which prompted cheers from the crowd.

"It just confirms what we know scientifically, which is that if you're using a filter, if you're installing it, then Flint water at this point is drinkable," he said, noting that didn't negate the need to replace some of the old pipes.

My emphasis.

[Nitram]

245. In general, when the military or the CIA are blamed for planning a domestic health crisis, it is

pure BS. But you'll always have conspiracy sites that blame the CIA for AIDS, drug addiction, and now Flint? Flint was created by Republican politicians more concerned with looking like fiscal conservatives than protecting the people they were elected to serve.

[OilemFirchen]

251. Yeah, I'm used to that.

I'm also accustomed to the appropriate derision that follows, coming from sentient individuals who know that disproving whacko CTs is imperative in order to maintain the sanity of the public.

But Moore's film includes an unattributed video of something happening somewhere and a claim that it's Obama's DoD "bombing" Flint for ten hours. That's pretty incendiary, yet no one seems to be challenging him on it.

Including, BTW, the OP.

[betsuni]

254. I know! It's the worst thing MM said, but not getting much attention.

He says "Obama sent the Pentagon in to use Flint for target practice for 10 days and nights in a row." First he says Obama is a huge liar who wants to poison everyone in Flint, then that he sends the army in to finish them off.

[Cha]

304. Thank You for challenging Moore on his vid, Oilem..

I don't trust anything he says.

Btw.. he wants YOU to "Embrace trump"..

“But I think we have to embrace Trump,” Moore said in the interview. “People reading this will say, ‘What do you mean? Embrace Trump?’ But we have to embrace him. We have to listen to him. He’s telling lies, and he’s telling the truth at the same time"

From the WaPo intro.. "Moore argues that Barack Obama and the Dems share the blame with trump for the state of state of the country."

"No. I'm against hope,” called back Moore. “Hope was back then with Obama. I'm for a generation of action."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

[Honeycombe8]

260. The Flint water problem was caused by STATE and LOCAL govt. Not the federal govt.

So whoever those politicians were, I don't know. That's who is to blame. Three officials have been indicted.

[AlexSFCA]

241. he is a nice genuine person but not the most intellectual

I like him when he takes on a cause like healthcare, crony capitalism, mass shooting, etc. rather than getting directly involved in prez talks; seems more effective and non polarizing that way.

[Boomerproud]

249. I saw the film today. Very powerful.

We are in deep trouble. I was in tears at the end. The teachers who went on strike, the students from Parkland and the people from Flint are heroes.

[SidDithers]

253. No misunderstanding at all, on my part...

Fuck Moore.

Sid

[JI7]

259. fuck that

that's why he still ignore or dismiss the Russian attack on the election.

[dalton99a]

276. June 9, 2016 - same day as Trump Tower meeting

[JI7]

299. interesting

[betsuni]

277. +1

[NurseJackie]

320. WOW! Amazing photo! Sickening. That reveals much.

[LiberalLovinLug]

256. Circular firing squad is right.

Just looking at this thread. This is the purity test to a whole other level. Now even MM must be shunned.




So ANYONE that says ANYTHING critical of ANYTHING ever done or said by ANY Democrat in office....but still overall supports the party, and encourages everyone to vote for them.....


IS THE ENEMY?

And this is some kind of brilliant strategy to bring liberals together in November? lol


Don't stop and think for a minute how ostracizing Michael Moore will ostracize all those that are prudent enough, adult enough, to take a criticism on the party without melting like the snowflakes we are always accused of being. They will look at some of these posts and shake their heads and laugh at the idiocy of this strategy of purity laws. No allies allowed! MM must give up his journalist documentary career which questions everything and all sides. Be sanctioned by the DNC, run as a Democrat, and if he wins then, maybe, he can criticize a bit.

Until then Hahahahahahahahaha the movie he made against Trump is failing!!!

[Alhena]

261. I thought his movie was kind of all over the place but it was clearly progressive

so I don't think anyone should question that. Wasn't great film-making, imo- but it was progressive.

[NurseJackie]

279. Lots of people are much smarter than they are being given credit for.

[Cha]

282. Fresh Shite from Michael Moore..

“But I think we have to embrace Trump,” Moore said in the interview. “People reading this will say, ‘What do you mean? Embrace Trump?’ But we have to embrace him. We have to listen to him. He’s telling lies, and he’s telling the truth at the same time"

From the WaPo intro.. "Moore argues that Barack Obama and the Dems share the blame with trump for the state of state of the country."

"No. I'm against hope,” called back Moore. “Hope was back then with Obama. I'm for a generation of action."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/07/new-film-michael-moore-compares-trump-hitler-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/?utm_term=.77221405d03e

MM.. So fucking bitter.. while Barack and Michelle are out there GOTV

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

292. Real Democrats are actually working on getting out the vote

I am not sure what Moore is actually doing

[Cha]

295. Moore is depressing the Vote Lying about the Democratic Party.. he's bitter

and jealous of President Obama.

“But I think we have to embrace Trump,” Moore said in the interview. “People reading this will say, ‘What do you mean? Embrace Trump?’ But we have to embrace him. We have to listen to him. He’s telling lies, and he’s telling the truth at the same time"

"Embrace trump".. like hell I will.

Yes, Real Dems who care about our Future are GOTV! Like Barack and Michelle.. &.. Sharice!

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

345. Here is what a real Democrat is doing

Link to tweet

[colsohlibgal]

289. The Big Reason That Creep Won

That is the stupid Electoral College......remember at least 3 million more voted for HRC.

Minus that ridiculous system where the person getting the most votes can lose no Dubya no Orangeman, no Iraq War.

That had much more to do with that than Michael Moore did. Thought we were suppose to support all people left of center.

[Raine]

312. Agree

Very good post, Thanks!

[empedocles]

315. Dp we really need moore now?

[betsuni]

318. "Look at this thread. DU has made it impossible to discuss the realties of the Democratic Party

and its leadership and policies by erecting its own censorship barriers, from behind which DUers can hurl all manner of assumptions and opinions knowing that direct response by other DUers is nearly impossible because of the apartheid wall of censorship 'rules.'"

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLLOLLOL

[betsuni]

319. Moar LOL

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

322. The irony is this 319-post string is as much a "circular firing squad" as anything - the strength

the proressives/dems/left has always been the "big tent" thing.... working in coalition. Anyone else remember that word - coalition? Wish it would come back into more common useage.

And fierce debates on tactics and strategies have always been part of it - at least that was my observation in late 60s/early 70s. Its been argued that the angry violent radicals served a purpose by making the more moderate and/or peace loving people seem more "reasonable" in comparison. Don't know if I agree with that - but its a thought.

There is no one single message that will reach every single frikken voter and motivate them to vote. There needs to be diverse voices and approaches.

[elmac]

326. Its lot looking good for November if we keep

gutting fellow progressives, as this just gives ammo to the party of putin and keeps us a party divided.

[Gothmog]

332. Real Democrats are working hard of GOTV efforts

Moore's failed movie was not going to help Democratic turnout

[Gothmog]

331. 'Fahrenheit 11/9': Why Michael Moore's Trump Doc Bombed

Moore's attacks on Democrats and the Democratic Party are not amusing https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/%E2%80%98fahrenheit-11-9%E2%80%99-why-michael-moore%E2%80%99s-trump-doc-bombed/ar-AAAAxO4?li=BBnb7Kz

Michael Moore’s trump card failed him this weekend.

“Fahrenheit 11/9,” Moore’s satirical takedown of President Trump and the current political landscape in America, picked up an abysmal $3.1 million when it opened 1,719 venues.

[still_one]

336. I guess he can blame the dismal premiere showing on the establishment Democrats also

When you trash a large portion of the Democratic representatives your prime audience supports, what would you expect?444

[Gothmog]

339. Attacking Democrats and the Democratic Party was a stupid move

Moore hates the Democratic Party. Real Democrats are boycotting this crappy movie

[still_one]

341. seems that way

[Gothmog]

342. It seems that real Democrats did NOT buy Moore's lies about President Obama and the Democratic Party

We do not need Moore’s lies to get Democrats out to vote. I am amused that anyone believes thay attacking President Obama and the Democratic Party would help voter turnout by Democrats

I am glad that real Democrats are boycotting Moore’s bad film