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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis is why sexual harassment will never end.
If he's our guy (D or R), he must be innocent. Facts don't matter. The accuser must be crazy/a liar/part of a conspiracy.
Examples: Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Brett Kavanaugh.
There are some exceptions. When the evidence is overwhelming - like with Harvey Weinstein - society will condemn the predator. Otherwise, it's "if he's our guy, he must be innocent".
And that's what the predator counts on.
DURHAM D
(32,606 posts)He's our guy. So he must be innocent.
Jarqui
(10,122 posts)Post-Weinstein, These Are the Powerful Men Facing Sexual Harassment Allegations
https://www.glamour.com/gallery/post-weinstein-these-are-the-powerful-men-facing-sexual-harassment-allegations
These names:
Les Moonves
Bill Cosby
Charlie Rose
Ryan Lizza
Kevin Spacey
Mark Halperin
are examples of men who have paid a price.
Brett Kavanaugh is about to join them
flotsam
(3,268 posts)is predatory?
DURHAM D
(32,606 posts)Shemp Howard
(889 posts)...but I'll take a guess. When a very powerful person has consensual sex with a lowly employee, maybe that's approaching predatory behavior.
When a relationship is roughly 50-50, neither person is under any great pressure. But when one person has significant control over the other person's professional life, that's different.
And that's why generals are not permitted to date soldiers in their command.
But suppose the two people really want to be together? Simple. One of them needs to resign. Then we are back to a healthy 50-50.
flotsam
(3,268 posts)Sure, my boss took advantage of me, but I will always remain firm on this point: it was a consensual relationship. Any abuse came in the aftermath, when I was made a scapegoat in order to protect his powerful position. . . . The Clinton administration, the special prosecutors minions, the political operatives on both sides of the aisle, and the media were able to brand me."
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)Monica Lewinski never should have entered into a relationship with a married man. That's on her. But the punishment she received far exceeded her crime.
Anyway, her quote - while sincere - does not change my mind much. A general taking advantage of a willing private is still doing something very wrong.
mythology
(9,527 posts)her consent, but also more recently (2018) she wrote this, specifically referencing the quote you cited:
But its also complicated. Very, very complicated. The dictionary definition of consent? To give permission for something to happen. And yet what did the something mean in this instance, given the power dynamics, his position, and my age? Was the something just about crossing a line of sexual (and later emotional) intimacy? (An intimacy I wantedwith a 22-year-olds limited understanding of the consequences.) He was my boss. He was the most powerful man on the planet. He was 27 years my senior, with enough life experience to know better. He was, at the time, at the pinnacle of his career, while I was in my first job out of college. (Note to the trolls, both Democratic and Republican: none of the above excuses me for my responsibility for what happened. I meet Regret every day.)
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/02/monica-lewinsky-in-the-age-of-metoo
There are very good reasons most companies ban sexual relations between people in direct line of authority. It's very complicated and dangerous because consent is tricky when one partner holds all the power. Sure there may not be a direct statement of "sleep with me or you're fired", but the subtext is there. It's why hospitals are requiring doctors to take communication training to help a patient actually be able to give informed consent.
It's why we don't allow inmates, even death row inmates, to donate organs because consent is so tricky and it can have the potential for improper behavior.
Is Bill Clinton a predator? I would say yes, just as I would say about any boss who has sex with their employee. Is Bill Clinton a criminal for that? No and obviously so.
rzemanfl
(29,554 posts)Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)The #metoo movement is powerful! It is rocking and shacking this country from the top down. It is working!
Times Up!
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)The #metoo movement has changed the landscape to a great extent. But -unfortunately - when it comes to politically powerful predators, it's still our guy/not our guy.
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)We through out a couple of sexual predators in our state legislature, one red and one blue. The both resisted, but more women came forward and they both stepped down.
I think we are moving into an era that we believe the victims. FINALLY!!!!
lordsummerisle
(4,651 posts)Shemp Howard and a pic of Bernie Sanders?
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)Funtatlaguy
(10,862 posts)Shemp Howard
(889 posts)I thought about including Franken somewhere in my original post.
Franken was abandoned by his fellow Democrats. But from what I could tell, Franken resigned because he himself had a moral compass. He thought that his resigning was what was best for the Senate, and for his party.
It was a very selfless move on Al's part. And for what it's worth, I think he should have stayed and fought the charges. I know that goes against my original post. Al's case is a rare one.
Funtatlaguy
(10,862 posts)thucythucy
(8,039 posts)Shemp Howard
(889 posts)The evidence was overwhelming.
thucythucy
(8,039 posts)Shit, he flat out admitted he assaulted women--bragged about it on tape!
And he is still supported by the core of the KGOP.
Please, this equivalence argument is getting old.
As of today, when Democrats do wrong or are at all credibly alleged to have done wrong, they are asked, by members of their own party, to resign. Al Franken come immediately to mind.
The KGOP offers men like Trump, Roy Moore, Ted Nugent, and the current nominee as role models and pillars of (their) society.
Huge difference.
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)And I forgot about Roy Moore and Ted Nugent. They are two more examples of "if he's our guy, he must be innocent".
But I think my original argument still holds. When it comes to politics, most people judge sexual harassment claims not on the facts, but on whose side the harasser is on.