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(53,061 posts)
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 01:56 PM Aug 2012

Dear Dumbshit Republican who stopped by to argue that we don't need radical health care change.

In response to


You came, you left your turd and now your gone. We don't want to waste our time having to go all the way back to Copernicus and reestablish ever logical point that the reactionaries have been fighting for the last 500 years so your ticket was punched. If you have observed the different voices at DU you might have noticed that I never use "Repug" and other pejoratives and I openly state that I have family I love and friends I respect who are Republicans, so when I use the word "Dumbshit" it is not a broad bush, it is aimed 100% at you and the millions of other obstinate knuckle draggers who think that you have any intellectual basis for your reactionary bullshit.

You have none. And if any of you have ever lived outside of the US you will find just how little respect your point of view gets in the other major democracies. And here I am speaking of other conservative even right wing parties.

Three years ago I spent an entire day researching the position of every major political party in every single developed democratic country and their stand on universal access to health care. I expected to find a couple of parties that agreed with you. There were none. Not even the racist far right nativist parties agreed with you.

You are alone in the civilized world when it comes to your repugnant, unethical, inhumane, counterproductive, parochial, hubrisitic, jingoistic, overburdened and anticapitalist approach to health care.

In the 'marketplace of ideas' that you like to pretend you believe in you are 0 out of 60. NO OTHER POLITICAL PARTY IN THE WORLD SHARES YOUR POINT OF VIEW. If you go to Europe and have dinner with a pious religious family who votes 100% of the time with the most conservative party in their country the first substantive question they will ask you when they want to have a meaningful discussion is "How can you justify a system that puts a price on seeing a doctor? In a wealthy country why should anyone have to worry about paying to go see a doctor?" And again this is from the conservatives. You are apart of the most reactionary far right wing movement in Western Civilization. You put on the clothes of respectability but does it ever bother you that the only reason that you are still in the game at all is that 30% of your votes are from self admitted racists who cannot correctly identify where the President was born. You have no shame, no respect from other conservatives. You have nothing and you are nothing and the American people are going to hand you a huge Electoral College defeat.

Here is the result of that original post.

The link has the original post with all of the HTML effects which make it easier to read:


In the world of political opinion the Republican Party stands alone in not supporting either universal national health care or universal health care insurance

While the Republican Party gives lip service to the idea of competing in the 'marketplace of ideas', history has made its choice. Looking across the span of political parties in modern development Democratic countries there is broad unanimous agreement among political leaders and parties that health care should be universally accessible.

The overwhelming numbers support a nationalized health care system.

A smaller minority support a nationalized insurance, or nationally controlled health insurance system that requires insurance companies to issue guarantee acceptance at regulated rates.

Only one party, The Republican Party, supports the proposition that individuals are better suited to work it out on its own.

In glancing at the partial list below, the most striking point is that very Conservative parties in Canada, the UK, and Australia all support positions that are to the left of even the Democratic Party in the US.

In all cases these countries spend about 30% less than the US (as a percentage of GDP - 16% versus 10%) and deliver more effective care to more people.

This is because national health care does three things;

1) Eliminates an unnecessary profit center (The health insurance industry).

2) Eliminates the unnecessary cost of administrating an expensive mechanism to approve care and achieves other efficiences of scale.

3) Focuses care on earlier stages of health problems allowing for more effective and less expensive preventative steps to be more universally accessed.

Universal health not only works but it saves money. Because of the eradication of Small Pox by governments across the globe this year we will spend no money and suffer no human loss due to small pox.


Government programs underpin the key aspects of healthcare. Medicare, which is funded out of general tax revenue, pays for hospital and medical services. Medicare covers all Australians, pays the entire cost of treatment in a public hospital, and reimburses for visits to doctors.

Australian Labor Party (center left 43%) "defend and strengthen Medicare, which is the cornerstone of Australia's health system"

Liberal Party of Australia (center right 36%) The government should &quot make) health services available, while encouraging preventative measures and private insurance http://www.liberal.org.au/info/docs/federa...

(no party advocates major changes to their health system http://www.economist.com/countries/Austria... )

Social Democratic Party (socialist 57 seats) (website is in German but the SDS is considered one of the most socialist parties in Europe http://www.spoe.at /

People's Party (center right 51 seats) Access to medical care must be guaranteed for every human being, regardless of his/her financial situation, social status and place of residence. http://www.oevp.at/download/general/036201...

Freedom Party (far right 34 seats) The freedom Party has a 5 point platform - none of them relate to changing health care http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Party...

Alliance for the future of Austria (eclectic some far right some far left 21) The AFA has a 21 point platform - none of which advocate any change to Austria's socailized health care. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_for_...

Green Party (center left 20) build a society respectful of fundamental human rights and environmental justice: the rights to self‑determination, to shelter, to good health, to education, to culture, and to a high quality of life;


Belgium's health care system is one of the best in Europe and none of the parties want to make major changes to it;

Devoting only half as much of its GDP to health as the United States does, Belgium has created a flexible, public-private partnership to pay for and deliver health care that preserves many of the attributes that Americans desire: universal coverage; comprehensive coverage of physician services, hospital care, and prescription drugs; free choice of primary physicians and specialists; and acceptable waiting periods for non-emergency services. (Belgium parties each have a seperate Flemish/Walloon-French speaknig Parties which are listed together) http://www.brookings.edu/events/2007/0205h...

Christian Democratic and Flemish/ Humanist Democratic Centre (Christian Democratic 25%)

Reformist Movement/Flemish Liberals/ (Liberalism 12%)

Flemish Interest (Right wing popularism/facist/anti immigrant 12%) Even this party, one of Europe's most far right wing parties, does not include any change in the health system in its extensive 18 point platform. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlaams_Belang

Open VLD (Liberalism 12%)

Socialist/Socialist Different (socialist 21%)

Ecolo/Green (green 10%)


Since 1962, Canada has had a government-funded, national healthcare system founded on the five basic principles of the Canada Health Act. The principles are to provide a healthcare system that is: universally available to permanent residents; comprehensive in the services it covers; accessible without income barriers; portable within and outside the country; and publicly administered. http://www.medhunters.com/articles/healthc...

Universal Health Care is considered "sacrosanct"

Conservative (center right 36%) A belief that all Canadians should have reasonable access to quality health care regardless of their ability to pay; http://www.conservative.ca/EN/4679 /

Liberal (center left 30%)
Medicare—single tier, universal access, publicly-funded health care is still regarded as sacrosanct, and people are very concerned that we’re losing it. More and more people understand that within that system, some publicly-funded services can be privately delivered—the far larger concern is wanting to avoid a two-tier system. This creates an opportunity to have a more open discussion—
even if we don’t have the answers, we should be looking for them. http://www.liberal.ca/pdf/docs/platformrep...

Quebec Party (french national 11%)

New Democratic Party (Center left 17%) NDP wants to expand public health care including expanded dental and prescription drug coverage, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrati...

Czech Republic

Civic Democratic Party (Center right 81 seats) Ideologically similar to British Conservative Party

Christian Democratic Union (Center left 29 seats) "the creating of a universal health care system and the guarantee of its functionality" http://www.kdu.cz/EN_Videa/Media_11_2006_5...

Communist Party (Communist 26 seats)

Christian and Democatic Union (Center right 13 seats)


Every resident in Denmark has free access to the ealth care system with free examinations and treatment. Residents receive a health insurance card from their municipality, which also arranges for the patients choice of doctor. http://www.ouh.dk/wm237197

Venstre (Center right 26%) Recently ran on increasing investment into Denmark's national health care system to reduce waiting lines http://www.venstre.dk/index.php?id=4620

Social Democrats (25% Socialism) Equality means applying decency and engendering a socially fair distribution of society’s goods. It means equal opportunities and equal access to education, health care and other services regardless of gender, social or ethnic background. http://socialdemokraterne.dk/A-English+ver...

Danish People's Party (Right Wing Populism 13.9%) The party is mostly an anti immigration policy and does not advocate major changes in the Danish Health System. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_People...

Socialist People's Party (Socialist/Green 13%) Supports universal free health care.


Although the French system faces many challenges, the World Health Organization rated it the best in the world in 2001 because of its universal coverage, responsive healthcare providers, patient and provider freedoms, and the health and longevity of the country's population. The United States ranked 37

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial... /

Union for a Popular Movement (Center Right 317 seats) refund at fair value both dental work expenses and spectacles, to put an end to inequalities in health care. http://www.support-sarkozy-france.com/nico...

Coalition of the Left (Center Left/Socialists 204 seats) Several different Leftist Parties all supporting universal health care.


Germany has the world's oldest universal care system and is arguably the most successful. Like Americans, most Germans get their health coverage through their employers. But Germany's rich pay higher premiums to subsidize insurance for the poor — a principle the Germans call "solidarity" http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...

The principle of "Solidarity" has been endorsed by all of Germany's political parties".

Social Democratic Party (Center Left 34%) Free or low cost nursing, doctor medical and hospital care for those who are sick, injured or unable to care for themselves. This may also include free antenatal and postnatal care. Services may be provided in the community or a medical facility. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_th...

Christian Democratic Union (Center Right 28%)

Free Democratic Party (Center 10%)

The Left (Socialism 9%)

Green (Center left 8%)

Christian Social Union (Center Right 7%)


Many Greeks have been clamouring for reform in their country’s health care system. Still, it was ranked by the World Health Organization as one of the best health care system in the world. Health care cost is the lowest among the European Union member countries. . . Public health system in Greece provides free or low cost health care service to residents contributing to the social security system including their families. Other benefits include free laboratory services, maternity care, medical-related appliances or gadgets, and transportation. Other European Union nationals can also avail of the free health care benefits provided they have with them their E111 forms.


New Democracy Party (Center Right 42%)

Unrestricted healthcare, guaranteed by the State. Healthcare is the principal social benefit.
For current and future generations, a person's quality of life will depend on healthcare. We struggle for a healthcare system, free of restrictions; lifetime healthcare, covering all health needs, for all citizens.
http://en.nd.gr /

Panhellenic Socialist Movement (Center Left 38%) Ensuring good education, health care, child care, et cetera for all citizens through government fundings.


All persons resident in Ireland are entitled to receive health care through the public health care system, which is managed by the Health Service Executive and funded by general taxation. A person may be required to pay a subsidised fee for certain health care received; this depends on income, age, illness or disability. All child health and maternity services are provided free of charge as is emergency care.

All Irish Parties support Universal Care


A survey, commissioned by the HSE in 2007, found that patient satisfaction with the health service was quite high, with 90% of inpatients and 85% of outpatients saying they were satisfied with their treatment. In addition to this, 97% said they were satisfied with the care provided by their GP.

Fianna Fáil (Center Right 41%)

Fine Gael (Center Left 27%

Labour Party (Socialist 10%)


In the Japanese health care system, healthcare services, including free screening examinations for particular diseases, prenatal care, and infectious disease control, are provided by national and local governments. Payment for personal medical services is offered through a universal health care insurance system that provides relative equality of access, with fees set by a government committee. People without insurance through employers can participate in a national health insurance program administered by local governments. Since 1973, all elderly persons have been covered by government-sponsored insurance. Patients are free to select physicians or facilities of their choice.


Generally speaking, the healthcare in Japan is not only provided free for every Japanese citizen, but also for expatriates and foreigners. http://www.allianzworldwidecare.com/health...

All Parties in Japan support universal health Care

Democratic Party of Japan (Center Left 40%)

Liberal Democratic Party (Center Right 28%)

New Komeito Party (Buddhist 13%) Supports Universal Care and wants cancer coverage expanded. http://www.komei.or.jp/en/policy/manifest....


The National Health System of Italy, called the Servizio Sanitario Nazioanale, offers inexpensive healthcare to all European citizens. In-patient treatments which are covered include tests, medications, surgeries during hospitalization, family doctor visits, and medical assistance provided by paediatricians and other specialists. The health system is also responsible for drugs and medicines, out-patient treatments, and dental treatments.


All Italian Political Parties support Universal Health Care

PDL (Center Right 275 Seats)

PD (Center Left 217 Seats

Lega Nord (Regional Parties 60 Seats)

UDC (Center Right 35 Seats

Idv (Center Left 29 Seats)



Of all of the developed Democracies (besides the US) the Netherlands relies most on private insurance to combine with government subsidies and is therefore the closest to the US system:

The Netherlands has introduced a new system of health care insurance based on risk equalization through a risk equalization pool. In this way, a compulsory insurance package is available to all citizens at affordable cost without the need for the insured to be assessed for risk by the insurance company. Indeed health insurers are now willing to take on high risk individuals because they receive compensation for the higher risks <3>.

A 2008 article in the journal Health Affairs suggested that the Dutch health system, which combines mandatory universal coverage with competing private health plans, could serve as a model for reform in the US.

Nevertheless the Dutch system is both substantially lower and provides higher care;

"In 2003, the Netherlands spent 9.8 percent of its gross domestic product on health care, below the spending levels in Germany, France, and Canada and more than one-third less than the United States. Even under the constraints of this budget, the Netherlands has implemented a number of health sector reforms that have led to important quality improvement. . ."

While it is not a nationalized system it does provide for Universal Health Care Insurance

Since 1 January 2006, there has been a single healthcare insurance system in the Netherlands, Everyone living in the Netherlands, or paying income tax here is required to take out compulsory healthcare insurance, Although the basic package is fixed by law, people are free to choose their insurer.

Insurers have a duty to accpet everyone for the basic package and older or chronically ill people may not be charged higher premiums for the basic coverage. The new system should lead to more efficient and client-centered healthcare services.

All parties in the Netherlands support Universal Insurance (or completely nationalizing the medical service).

CDA (Center Right 41 Seats)

Labor Party (Socialist 33 Seats)

Socialist Party (Socialist 25 Seats)

VVD (Center Right 21

United Kingdom

The National Health Service (NHS) is based on the principle to provide a universal service for all based on clinical need, not ability to pay. It is supported by all major parties in the UK.

Labour Party (Center Left 350 Seats) Labour considers NHS "their greatest achievement'.

Conservative Party (Center Right 193 Seats) Now supports the NHS without reservation. In 2006, for example, David Cameron unveiled changes to his party's stance on healthcare which effectively undid Thatcher's efforts to try and subsidize patients going to private medical insurance. In his first speech becoming leader he said that he wanted the NHS to be free for all.

Liberal Party (Centrist 63 Seats) Supports NHS and would like to decentralize it and expand its drug coverage.

Discuss (18 comments) | Recommend (+15 votes)

60 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Dear Dumbshit Republican who stopped by to argue that we don't need radical health care change. (Original Post) grantcart Aug 2012 OP
What Do You Think 'American Exceptionalism' is All About, Sir? Honestly. Why Do You Hate America? The Magistrate Aug 2012 #1
Sir, my taglline informs on all things Hubristic, including American Exceptionalism. grantcart Aug 2012 #2
Of Course They Are Not Embarrassed, Sir, They Are Family, Members In Good Standing The Magistrate Aug 2012 #3
K/R Fuck anyone who says that we don't need radical health care change. Autumn Aug 2012 #4
K & R Liberal_Dog Aug 2012 #5
+1 freshwest Aug 2012 #16
Complete list of all countries that overturned their national health plan after enacting one.... Scuba Aug 2012 #6
Post of the week Patiod Aug 2012 #7
Thanks grantcart Aug 2012 #37
Best post I've ever seen on DU. Best response DevonRex Aug 2012 #8
Wow, I was just hoping for a "meh". grantcart Aug 2012 #9
You did the work that I DevonRex Aug 2012 #17
Grantcart wins Gold!! nc4bo Aug 2012 #10
i second that heaven05 Aug 2012 #11
thank you grantcart Aug 2012 #13
Grantcart, as usual, you totally rule! I'm in awe! - n/t coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #12
Could you repeat that? DearAbby Aug 2012 #14
Sorry. DearAbby Aug 2012 #15
Thank you for an informative article. part man all 86 Aug 2012 #18
My suggestion is that you surprise them by saying that you have been convinced that the grantcart Aug 2012 #26
Nice work Grantcart tnlurker Aug 2012 #19
Thanks and good luck grantcart Aug 2012 #28
USA! USA! USA! USA! annabanana Aug 2012 #20
Great information! AnnieK401 Aug 2012 #21
thanks grantcart Aug 2012 #33
One of the best posts I've ever seen on DU (or anywhere else for that matter)! FourScore Aug 2012 #22
thanks grantcart Aug 2012 #27
K&R Great research. Thanks. JDPriestly Aug 2012 #23
This argument will have zero impact Kyad06 Aug 2012 #24
K&R nt TBF Aug 2012 #25
I've enjoyed the past hour or so of reading through your information about other countries' pacalo Aug 2012 #29
Thank you grantcart Aug 2012 #31
Well done. AtomicKitten Aug 2012 #30
thanks grantcart Aug 2012 #32
Wow! That is some impressive research Lifelong Protester Aug 2012 #34
Thanks grantcart Aug 2012 #38
excellent post ! nt steve2470 Aug 2012 #35
Thanks grantcart Aug 2012 #39
Excellent! 99Forever Aug 2012 #36
Thanks. It was great to see John singing at the Olympics tonight. grantcart Aug 2012 #40
Well done! silverweb Aug 2012 #41
Excellent, excellent, grantcart! Sharing! Thanks for your work! patrice Aug 2012 #42
Thank you grantcart Aug 2012 #46
thank you and all of they syllables are yours. grantcart Aug 2012 #51
And that, folks... Duchess St.Rollins Aug 2012 #44
Its always nice to get a nod from royalty. grantcart Aug 2012 #54
For you... Duchess St.Rollins Aug 2012 #59
anytime but I am not sure I saw the link grantcart Aug 2012 #60
re:Dear Dumbshit Republican who stopped by to argue that we don't need radical health care change. allan01 Aug 2012 #45
Damn concern trolls.... Historic NY Aug 2012 #47
So I guess no one here changed the RePUGs mind? bayareaboy Aug 2012 #48
74 surrendered and were lined up in front of my door this morning. grantcart Aug 2012 #55
THANK YOU, grantcart, this is amazing! BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2012 #49
I vote for this article to be the post of the year SmittynMo Aug 2012 #50
What a superduper fantabulous post! Thank you. nt valerief Aug 2012 #52
My admiration to you for this fine research. n/t mlevans Aug 2012 #53
thanks grantcart Aug 2012 #57
they are coming ever 15 minutes or so, so I thought I would just keep this near the top so that they grantcart Aug 2012 #56
Why is that the idjits who claim we don't need radical change want to privatize Medicare? gkhouston Aug 2012 #58


(53,061 posts)
2. Sir, my taglline informs on all things Hubristic, including American Exceptionalism.
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 02:22 PM
Aug 2012

BTW did you ever notice that those who make the biggest noise about American Exceptionalism are never examples of anything exceptional.

On the same note have you evern noticed that people who support White Supremecy save us a lot of time needing to discuss it by simply having their picture taken?

And finally, Sir, have you ever noticed that these bullshit Republican intellectual wannabees are never embarassed to be in the same company, fighting the same battles, using the same arguments as the racists and that if those numbers were subtracted from their votes we wouldn't have to talk about filibuster reform, they wouldn't have enough Senators to have a picnic?

The Magistrate

(95,636 posts)
3. Of Course They Are Not Embarrassed, Sir, They Are Family, Members In Good Standing
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 02:28 PM
Aug 2012

The modern Republican party depends on racism, nostalgia for a White Supremacist world, for its voting strength.

An excellent write-up, by the way, on the health-care issue. I do not mean for my comedic impulse to derail your substantial effort.

"Romney loves America like a tick loves a dog."



(53,475 posts)
6. Complete list of all countries that overturned their national health plan after enacting one....
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 02:44 PM
Aug 2012



(11,816 posts)
7. Post of the week
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 03:06 PM
Aug 2012

Like the Thom Hartmann show says, we need this kind of hard factual information to win the watercooler wars.

Posting things like "ReThugs" on yahoo isn't going to do anything. Showing these sort of hard data to our friends and family members who have been unduly influenced by Fox "News" and the Wall Street Journal is.


(22,541 posts)
8. Best post I've ever seen on DU. Best response
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 03:34 PM
Aug 2012

one of those disgusting people who occasionally drop by, thinking they are so superior when they are nothing but ignorant, selfish fools.


(22,541 posts)
17. You did the work that I
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 04:26 PM
Aug 2012

was thinking about doing but I was too lazy. I really can't thank you enough for this. It's everything we need in one place.

Anyone who has relatives or friends who make stupid remarks about health care can really use this. I can use this. As you know, I'm overrun with RW family. I can't tell you how many times I wished I had this at my fingertips. Now I do.


(17,651 posts)
10. Grantcart wins Gold!!
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 03:47 PM
Aug 2012

Outstanding and sobering reminder to every citizen in America that we lag where it really counts, the health of our citizens.

We have nothing to stick chests out and be proud of in this regard. Change is desperately needed.

part man all 86

(367 posts)
18. Thank you for an informative article.
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 04:28 PM
Aug 2012

I can only hope to remember some this when talking to "dumbshit republicans". Their dipshit list of stupidity to counter is so long.


(53,061 posts)
26. My suggestion is that you surprise them by saying that you have been convinced that the
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 05:04 PM
Aug 2012

Conservatives are right.

And then hand them the platform of the Conservative Party of Canada

Our Government is committed to a publicly funded, universally accessible health care system. We want to see a strong, sustainable health care system in Canada that is there when you need it.

And hand them a copy of the platform


You can then ask them to bet $ 10 that they cannot find another major conservative party outside the US that agrees with their idea and that every single party in the developed world believes that access to health care should not be denied due to inability to pay.


(1,021 posts)
19. Nice work Grantcart
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 04:29 PM
Aug 2012

I am going to save this for those Republicans at my work that still talk to me about politics.


(541 posts)
21. Great information!
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 04:41 PM
Aug 2012

I knew we were alone in the developed world, but had never heard it put like that before.


(9,704 posts)
22. One of the best posts I've ever seen on DU (or anywhere else for that matter)!
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 04:51 PM
Aug 2012

Bookmarking. Kicking. Recommending. Memorizing!


(127 posts)
24. This argument will have zero impact
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 04:58 PM
Aug 2012

They take pride in the belief that our for profit healthcare system is the only one in the world. After all who wants to wait 6 months to see a doctor like they do in ----------. They don't want that socialist death panel type healthcare lol.


(24,722 posts)
29. I've enjoyed the past hour or so of reading through your information about other countries'
Sun Aug 12, 2012, 07:24 PM
Aug 2012

successful, progressive universal healthcare programs and the hilarious thread of the concern troll who was very ably shown to be out of his/her league on DU. We find attempts of persuasion without providing credible sources to be, well ... fainaent (sic).

44. And that, folks...
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 06:00 AM
Aug 2012


Bravo and thank you for the info. I debate someone about this almost every single day and this will come in handy for sure.

I'm pretty into Lakoff and the power of language and I think your invocation of shame (the antithesis of 'Merkkin pride) was brilliant.


(1,950 posts)
45. re:Dear Dumbshit Republican who stopped by to argue that we don't need radical health care change.
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 09:51 AM
Aug 2012

thanks for publishing this exaustive and most comprehenisve list . this country is now so backwards it is not funny. i also saved the link for future reference


(793 posts)
48. So I guess no one here changed the RePUGs mind?
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 11:20 AM
Aug 2012

So did he change any minds on the board?

Probably not, huh?

Those folks are like the kind of jerk that lights a paper bag full of dog poops on your porch, catches his leg on fire then steps on the bag, on the way out.


(53,061 posts)
56. they are coming ever 15 minutes or so, so I thought I would just keep this near the top so that they
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 09:21 PM
Aug 2012

think it is just for them


(21,642 posts)
58. Why is that the idjits who claim we don't need radical change want to privatize Medicare?
Tue Aug 14, 2012, 01:34 AM
Aug 2012

No sirree, nothing radical about that.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Dear Dumbshit Republican ...