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yardwork

(61,539 posts)
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:16 PM Sep 2018

I attended a private university during the late 70s - early 80s

I attended college with men who had attended prep schools in the D.C. area and the northeast.

The alleged behavior of Kavanaugh and his buddies sounds familiar to me. Their alleged behavior matches behavior and attitudes that I witnessed among college men of Kavanaugh's background.

Spiking the punch at parties to get women drunk? Check.

Targeting vulnerable women to get them drunk and then gang rape them? Check.

Getting drunk and becoming loud, belligerent, and abusive toward women? Check.

Speaking of women in demeaning and exploitative ways, even when sober? Check.

It's all there. It's all familiar. It's why I avoided fraternity parties, in fact I avoided men of this type while I was in college.

And by the way, the same people who behaved this way toward women were ALSO highly racist and homophobic. I expect that Kavanaugh is as well.

These are the worst. They are the core of the Republican Party: privileged wealthy white men who treat everybody else like dirt.

That's how Kavanaugh would rule on the Supreme Court.

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I attended a private university during the late 70s - early 80s (Original Post) yardwork Sep 2018 OP
You make me wonder if we were classmates. Squinch Sep 2018 #1
All too familiar for me. Solly Mack Sep 2018 #2
Wow, I must have led a sheltered life. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2018 #3
I never encountered parties like this, either. Late 70s, early 80s. LisaM Sep 2018 #18
Reading through the responses on this thread, it appears that fraternities are the problem. yardwork Sep 2018 #20
Yes, I think the frat "culture," especially where the members were entitled rich brats The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2018 #23
I went to college in the mid-80s. Dulcinea Sep 2018 #35
Ditto lapfog_1 Sep 2018 #4
That describes the University of Georgia in the 1980s to a tee. GoCubsGo Sep 2018 #14
The entire culture in the 1980s was sick. Reagan got elected by Young Republicans. yardwork Sep 2018 #21
Tritto... MountCleaners Sep 2018 #26
Holy cow, just saw this. LuckyCharms Sep 2018 #5
Where's your thread or post? I'd love to read it. yardwork Sep 2018 #22
Here you go: LuckyCharms Sep 2018 #36
It has been Wellstone ruled Sep 2018 #6
Thanks for this, yardwork. This described behavior does not sound unfamiliar. R B Garr Sep 2018 #7
Yes, Facebook. The name says it all. yardwork Sep 2018 #24
I remember the pig book! janterry Sep 2018 #30
This male behavior existed at small liberal arts college campuses.. Guilded Lilly Sep 2018 #8
I don't know Kavanaugh but I know Kavanaugh C_U_L8R Sep 2018 #9
The jargon, yes! Entitled twits. yardwork Sep 2018 #25
That wasn't a "private university" exclusive BumRushDaShow Sep 2018 #10
as Micheal Moore said to Chris Hayes last night "We all know these guys" Judging from the handful mulsh Sep 2018 #11
Recommended. H2O Man Sep 2018 #12
Frats today Johnny2X2X Sep 2018 #13
Yes, the women who were targeted and victimized were blamed. yardwork Sep 2018 #38
And the frat boy douchebags are the ones currently running the country. Initech Sep 2018 #15
Thank you for all your responses. yardwork Sep 2018 #16
Check. zentrum Sep 2018 #17
I guess I was lucky to have gone to a school where this sort of partying wasn't common, The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2018 #19
I think the decade between the 60s and the late 70s/early 80s shanny Sep 2018 #33
Could be. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2018 #34
GOP has supported rape from day one. Women who disobey will be raped or killed Eliot Rosewater Sep 2018 #27
I picked a women's college in the early '80s torius Sep 2018 #28
Me too. Rutgers and NYU at age 14-16. By the time I was in college I could afford booze and bettyellen Sep 2018 #29
The coverage and discussions about this have impacted me personally... Moostache Sep 2018 #31
I went to a public university in the mid to late 1970's customerserviceguy Sep 2018 #32
This message was self-deleted by its author DeminPennswoods Sep 2018 #37
I graduated from a private university in 1983 AngryOldDem Sep 2018 #39
I remember a party that a good friend of mine had, at her house (she was ... SWBTATTReg Sep 2018 #40

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
3. Wow, I must have led a sheltered life.
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:29 PM
Sep 2018

I was talking about this very thing with some friends yesterday, and we found that none of us had ever attended or even heard of parties like that. We'd all been in college in the late '60s or early '70s, and while there was certainly plenty of drinking, pot-smoking and making out, none of us encountered gang rape - nothing worse than some crude passes or ass-grabbing, which was easily dealt with - or drugged punch or any of that other really debauched behavior. We drank til we puked sometimes but that was about it. Maybe those other things happened sometimes but we never witnessed them. But maybe the difference was that we had all either attended state universities or liberal arts colleges that didn't have fraternities. And if there were many students at our schools who had attended elite private prep schools we didn't know them. I guess that's just a different culture.

LisaM

(27,794 posts)
18. I never encountered parties like this, either. Late 70s, early 80s.
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 03:52 PM
Sep 2018

I went to the University of Michigan and there were plenty of rich kids there - maybe this went on in fraternity parties, though I even went to a couple of those and didn't see anything along these lines.

I never even heard of the date rape drug until long after I was out of college. I don't remember hearing anything about it when I was in school. And I was no stranger to parties. In fact, as I noted in a different thread, when someone had too much, it was the norm to care of the person, making sure he or she was put in a quiet room to sleep it off, or making sure the person got home okay, giving them water before they went to bed, that kind of thing. I never witnessed anyone taking advantage of a drunk woman at the parties I went to.

yardwork

(61,539 posts)
20. Reading through the responses on this thread, it appears that fraternities are the problem.
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 06:19 PM
Sep 2018

After what I witnessed my freshman year, I avoided fraternities. I went to parties off campus or with non-fraternity social clubs. We drank a lot. We took drugs. There were punch bowls with "additions," but the difference was that everybody drank from the punch bowl, including the guys, and they weren't doing it to rape women.

I was very lucky. I put myself in vulnerable positions. Apparently, staying away from fraternities was an accidentally wise move on my part.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
23. Yes, I think the frat "culture," especially where the members were entitled rich brats
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 06:24 PM
Sep 2018

from posh prep schools, led to an attitude that they could do whatever they pleased, social mores be damned. It seemed to have really flourished during the '80s, when being a rich entitled preppie was considered a good thing instead of a putative douchebag.

Dulcinea

(6,606 posts)
35. I went to college in the mid-80s.
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 07:13 PM
Sep 2018

But I went to a large state university, not an elite private school. I didn't like frat parties. I had plenty of friends to party with who didn't act like assholes. I never could stand that whole frat culture. I resented being treated like I was less human than they were.

lapfog_1

(29,194 posts)
4. Ditto
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:30 PM
Sep 2018

all except I knew these assholes from private "academies" in the midwest. Something something "Country Day School" or blah blah Academy. They all joined frat houses at the state U. They were all given cars by daddy. They all acted like the entitled assholes they actually were.

morally bankrupt...

GoCubsGo

(32,075 posts)
14. That describes the University of Georgia in the 1980s to a tee.
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:32 PM
Sep 2018

That's where I went to grad school. My undergrad alma mater was not a big fraternity/sorority school, so I didn't see any of the drunken partying there. A good chunk of the student population was, and still is commuters. When I got to UGA, it was a whole different world. It wasn't just the Greek culture. which was and is HUGE, that was like that, either. There were loads of rich kids from Atlanta who didn't get into the frats and sororities, but still partied like they were. And, they also behaved like drunken, entitled assholes. UGA, at the time, had the reputation for being THE "party school." That shit went down not only in frat houses, but in off campus housing, and downtown in the many bars and night clubs. What's been described regarding Kavanaugh is far from an anomaly. It was the norm back then.

yardwork

(61,539 posts)
21. The entire culture in the 1980s was sick. Reagan got elected by Young Republicans.
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 06:21 PM
Sep 2018

Greed was good and everybody was yapping about Ayn Rand. I hated the 80s.

MountCleaners

(1,148 posts)
26. Tritto...
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 06:28 PM
Sep 2018

I went to Northwestern in the late 80's. I lived in a women's dorm. We were told which frats to avoid because of how they treated women. It was clear what that implied: rape.

One time we were so bored we went into one of the sporty frats. We were punk and goth kids who wouldn't be caught dead in them, but one of our more conservative friends was invited to a party there and she made us go. I saw a bunch of frat boys pick up a TINY girl and try to carry her up the stairs. She was screaming. A bunch of us intervened and they let her go, but they seemed to think it was funny. They were all drunk as fuck and awful.

LuckyCharms

(17,414 posts)
5. Holy cow, just saw this.
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:32 PM
Sep 2018

We must have been having the same train of thought at the same time. I just posted something similar.

I'm watching MSNBC, and the discussion made me think of college days.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
6. It has been
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:46 PM
Sep 2018

fifty six years since College. Yes,we had one Frat on Campus that fit everything that has surfaced around Kavanah and Gang. Many moved on into Wisconsin Politics .

Familiar comment was,Daddy has my back.

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
7. Thanks for this, yardwork. This described behavior does not sound unfamiliar.
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:52 PM
Sep 2018

There are young people, a young man in a recent case, who was killed by the alcohol poisoning/consumption and frat pranks, so everything this new victim described has been seen and heard of before, especially about scoring with women.

Wasn't Facebook founded by frat boys who started an internet chatroom where they graded women by looks and other measures of sexual scoreability,etc??

I didn't go to school in the East, but these parties are very well known. This Kavanaugh creep is such a liar.

yardwork

(61,539 posts)
24. Yes, Facebook. The name says it all.
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 06:25 PM
Sep 2018

At my school they called it the "pig book" and male students scanned it for targets.

And when women walked past the fraternity benches, the men called out numbers from 1-10 to rate us based on our appearance. That's what we were to them - objects to be rated.

And then we were all supposed to graduate and be treated equally in our professions? No wonder there's a glass ceiling and gender-based pay disparities.

No wonder we can't get a woman elected president.

 

janterry

(4,429 posts)
30. I remember the pig book!
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 06:37 PM
Sep 2018

I transferred out of that college .

There were frats and talk about 'trains'. The next day we were well aware of who got 'trained.'

Terrible.

Just before I went to college, I remember Animal House was popular. College was not all that far from that experience

Guilded Lilly

(5,591 posts)
8. This male behavior existed at small liberal arts college campuses..
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:57 PM
Sep 2018

in the late mid to late seventies as well. Where there were fraternities, there were houses. Where there were frat houses there was drinking, there were parties. There were habitual and horrific abuses and disrespect of women at those colleges.

It existed.

Make no mistake, it was a part and parcel of many campuses, elitist, church-backed, private or broadly publicly attended.

If you never heard of or witnessed such activity, you were lucky.

It was not that rare.

C_U_L8R

(44,992 posts)
9. I don't know Kavanaugh but I know Kavanaugh
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:58 PM
Sep 2018

Same here, went to school with the same yuppie jerks... reveling in their piggishness and entitlement... complete with the stupid jargon, keggers and pussygrabbing. Such assholes.

BumRushDaShow

(128,529 posts)
10. That wasn't a "private university" exclusive
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:59 PM
Sep 2018

EVERY big university (notably state schools) had the same thing going on (I attended one during the late '70s - early '80s).

The drinking game "Pass Out" was popular.

You STILL have magazines publishing annual "Top Party Schools", something popularized by Princeton and Playboy.

mulsh

(2,959 posts)
11. as Micheal Moore said to Chris Hayes last night "We all know these guys" Judging from the handful
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:59 PM
Sep 2018

of jerks at my all boys Catholic high school in the '70's I say you're spot on.

Johnny2X2X

(18,973 posts)
13. Frats today
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:01 PM
Sep 2018

Last edited Wed Sep 26, 2018, 08:35 PM - Edit history (1)

Just about a couple times a year a college fraternity gets banned for drugging women at parties.

I've got an unpleasant truth for people, in the 80s it was much much likely not to be reported and the women who were drugged and raped were most likely shamed as whores afterwards and blamed themselves.

yardwork

(61,539 posts)
38. Yes, the women who were targeted and victimized were blamed.
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 08:13 PM
Sep 2018

I now know a lot more about predatory behavior. I realize now that the women who were victimized at these parties were identified, stalked, and attacked as prey by young men for whom this was a game.

And if they dared to complain, they were blamed. "Why would you wear that?"

Initech

(100,043 posts)
15. And the frat boy douchebags are the ones currently running the country.
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 02:06 PM
Sep 2018

Oh you know - "boys will be boys".

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
19. I guess I was lucky to have gone to a school where this sort of partying wasn't common,
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 05:02 PM
Sep 2018

although there was plenty of garden-variety beer drinking and pot smoking. I would have been a prime target for one of those frat party gang rapes because I was kind of nerdy and shy, and I wanted to be popular and accepted but didn't know how to go about it. I'd have been the girl who was flattered and pleased to have been invited to a party where the cool kids were, and I'd have drunk the spiked punch because I'd have been too clueless to see what was going on until it was too late. I'd have been fresh meat. And I probably never would have reported it to anyone, either.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
33. I think the decade between the 60s and the late 70s/early 80s
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 06:56 PM
Sep 2018

made a big difference. Vietnam, Watergate, the assassinations? Leading to loss of respect in institutions, mores? I don't know...but there was a sea change.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
34. Could be.
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 07:05 PM
Sep 2018

We thought we were pretty hard-core party animals in the late '60s, but when somebody got too drunk to stand we took them home and put them to bed instead of leaving them alone and vulnerable. I distinctly remember helping carry a very drunk female friend back to her dorm room. Smoking pot also seemed to operate against orgiastic behavior. Must have been the Reagan years that caused kids to go nuts.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
29. Me too. Rutgers and NYU at age 14-16. By the time I was in college I could afford booze and
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 06:37 PM
Sep 2018

Avoided them like the plague.

But when I did, I...
Never drank from an open container.
Never went downstairs or upstairs.
Kept an eye on my friend and vice versa.
Discreetly dumped beer in the floor becasue dudes were trying to get me to drink too fast.
Declined too many invitations to “lie down somewhere”.
Got out before we were too drunk, went someplace else less rapey to dance it out of my system.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
31. The coverage and discussions about this have impacted me personally...
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 06:39 PM
Sep 2018

I know first hand about prep-school party culture. I lived in it during the mid- to late-80's, though not on the East Coast. Money, privilege, luxury and a lack of accountability or consequences combined with access to drugs and raging teenage hormones all combine to make for a seriously toxic mix. I know that some people are reading the barest of details from this case and are shocked, all I can say it you really are just scratching the surface of what was (and certainly still IS) happening.

I believe every single word of Kavanaugh's accusers. Every. Single. Word.

I don't believe ANY of Kavanaugh's denials. They are clearly put together to appeal to a subset of people who WANT to believe him and will latch on to ANYTHING to put out of their mind the possibility that he really is as scummy as these charges make him out to be....well, HE IS! GUARANTEED.

My kids have been sheltered and held away from this culture intentionally. I never felt the need to describe chapter and verse all of the hedonistic, misogynistic and downright amoral things I was witness to...lately, judging by the level of shock in general, I am thinking it may be necessary and cathartic at the same time.

But know this much...these brave women coming forward to tell their stories are ALL familiar to anyone who experienced this particular culture at any level. It is all true and then there is much, much more.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
32. I went to a public university in the mid to late 1970's
Wed Sep 26, 2018, 06:46 PM
Sep 2018

and we had that sort of thing going on, too. I pledged a frat house when I got there, and promptly dropped out when I figured that I was there to get an education, and not a permanent hangover.

It was part of the culture back then, and that's why Kavanaugh gets any sympathy at all.

Response to yardwork (Original post)

AngryOldDem

(14,061 posts)
39. I graduated from a private university in 1983
Thu Sep 27, 2018, 09:44 AM
Sep 2018

This is my first post on DU in a very long time. I’m back because I’m getting sick of the worsening state of this country, as well of those who are having no issue with destroying it for their own twisted agendas.

That said, whenever I see Brett Kavanaugh I am reminded of those boys — not men — who swaggered around campus, thinking the world owed them all deference and honor because of their very existence — the boys who would strut around campus and into classes late, sit in the back and openly mock the professor, brazenly cheat on tests, and provide cover for one another if need be. Of course, they had their posse and made the rest of us who weren’t part of the beautiful people feel like shit. They ruled the roost.

I had a roommate my sophomore year. One night I had a basketball game on TV, and a member of the campus jockocracy appeared. Her reaction was immediate, unexpected, and frightening. All she would say was she was at a party with this guy, and she never wanted to see him or hear his name ever again. I didn’t feel right pressing her for details, and I honored her request.
After all these years, I still think about her and wonder how she’s doing, moreso after Dr. Ford bravely came forth with her story. There is no question that something bad happened at that party, all because of some asshole who thought he had the God-given right to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. And he’s out there somewhere too like Kavanaugh, a success at whatever he’s doing, and totally oblivious to the pain he caused a 19-year-old all these years ago. If he even remembers.

It’s time these Cocks of the Walk be called on their criminal, entitled, misogynist behavior. We owe them nothing. They deserve nothing. They have earned nothing. Kavanaugh will most likely be confirmed, but we can all put him and the rest of his twisted ilk on notice that we are on to them, we know what they were/are like, we will never forget, and that we will always stand with those they abused in all their “youthful indescretions.”

SWBTATTReg

(22,077 posts)
40. I remember a party that a good friend of mine had, at her house (she was ...
Thu Sep 27, 2018, 11:33 AM
Sep 2018

single at the time, recently separated from ex-husband, w/ 4 good kids.)

I enjoyed going to her parties for she had friends that would come in from the caves along the MO/AR border and who grew pot inside the caves and so forth. Very interesting and very revealing to a kid who was just starting out in life (me, in college). I really enjoyed her gatherings and met the most interesting people. A experience in life I'll never regret.

One time, someone was caught spiking the punch bowl...and it wasn't just alcohol, it was something else (we never could figure out what it was, probably a preliminary date rape drug or something of the kind) and
they were caught. We ran him out of the party, especially after a couple of people started 'acting' up and tempers were very hot. I'm surprised that they didn't lynch (I hate this word) the guy after he was caught spiking the punch bowl. Probably thought it would be a good ol' boys trick. Pathetic.

This is why I never trust an open punch bowl. Too easy of a target. And there are scumbags who'll take advantage of it. True scumbags who'll dump crap into something and not realize (or they may, pathetically taking advantage of someone) the impact that the unknown drugs could have on people.

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