The Double Sovereignty case soon coming to SCOTUS was just discussed on AMJoy

[brush]

It's about being charged by both Federal and State authorities for the same crime.

It is feared that this case has the potential to exponentially expand trump's pardoning power visa a vis the Mueller probe.

Couldn't Mueller just refer some cases to state AGs and bypass what is likely to come out of SCOTUS (one reason repugs want Kavanaugh on the court so badly)?

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. Funny how GOP assumes they already have four certain votes to do TERRIBLE

things to this nation, including putting this traitor above the law.

[onenote]

5. One of those four certain votes is Ginsburg.

This case was brought to the Court and accepted in significant part because of an opinion authored by Justice Ginsburg (and joined by Justice Thomas) suggesting that the time had come to revisit the dual sovereignty exception to the double jeopardy rule. To quote from the opinion written by Justice Ginsburg:

"The double jeopardy proscription is intended to shield individuals from the harassment of multiple prosecutions for the same misconduct. Green v. United States, 355 U. S. 184, 187 (1957). Current “separate sovereigns” doctrine hardly serves that objective. States and Nation are “kindred systems,” yet “parts of ONE WHOLE.” The Federalist No. 82, p. 245 (J. Hopkins ed., 2d ed. 1802) (reprint 2008). Within that whole is it not “an affront to human dignity,” Abbate v. United States, 359 U. S. 187, 203 (1959) (Black, J., dissenting), “inconsistent with the spirit of [our] Bill of Rights,” Developments in the Law— Criminal Conspiracy, 72 Harv. L. Rev. 920, 968 (1959), to try or punish a person twice for the same offense?"

[brush]

6. Can't Mueller though refer cases to state AGs like he did recently with a trump case?

[calimary]

2. Yep! I think that's why Kavanaugh was plucked from relative obscurity

and added to the Federalist Society list late in the game, as I understand it. They had a list already drawn up. He hadn’t been on it originally. Those bastards are trying to engineer a work-around for trump to evade ramifications from the Mueller probe. And what a perfect strategy - to throw in the name of a prospective candidate who doesn’t believe those cases should be thus separated.

[onenote]

4. FFS. If there are already four votes on the issue, it's not as if Kavanaugh was the only

potential supreme court justice that would join the other four.

By the way, Ginsburg and Thomas are the two justices who have been most vocal in rolling back the dual sovereignty exception to the double jeopardy rule.

Loosen the tin foil.

[brush]

8. I think they want the attempted rapist not just for this but also for his belief that presidents...

are exempt from prosecution.

Currious, what's the reason for your last sentence?

[onenote]

11. Because the notion that he was picked because no one else who protect the president

is something that has been tossed around here on DU even though it makes no sense at all.

[Fullduplexxx]

3. I was told this about that

Nevilledog

27. That is an incorrect analysis.

Gamble involves a case where a defendant was prosecuted for the exact crime from the same event in both State and Fed. Court.......Prohibited Possession of a Firearm. The Petitioner is asking the SC to overturn an issue that has been settled since 1959 when Abbate v. US was decided. 

I invite you to read the government's brief 

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/17/17-646/28031/20180116184058367_17-646%20Gamble.pdf 

Even if Abbate was to be overturned the prosecutions could proceed in both State and Fed jurisdictions, they'd just have to divide up any crimes that relied upon theexact same elements for a crime arising from the exact same facts.


https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211190592

[Hortensis]

7. Here's the concept behind dual sovereignty. Arising

from something like 1000 years of English common law, it's one of the many concepts that have been included in our legal systems in the colonies and then our republic for over 500 years now.

The dual sovereignty doctrine is founded on the common-law conception of crime as an offense against the sovereignty of the government. When a defendant in a single act violates the “peace and dignity” of two sovereigns by breaking the laws of each, he has committed two distinct “offences.”

As the Court explained in Moore v. Illinois, “[a]n offence, in its legal signification, means the transgression of a law.” Consequently, when the same act transgresses the laws of two sovereigns, “it cannot be truly averred that the offender has been twice punished for the same offence; but only that by one act he has committed two offences, for each of which he is justly punishable.”

The ACLU is for abolishing dual sovereignty because it does confer double jeopardy for a single action. Today's Republicans, of course, are for abolishing it to lessen the risk from their own criminal activities, including of course indirectly by increasing Trump's power to pardon people he needs to keep quiet.

[brush]

9. What's Mueller's workaround though? No one is answering that...refer some cases...

to state AGs?

[Hortensis]

10. We know he started doing that very early on, Brush.

What else he's up to, though, you know as well as I. I only get a clue after he exercises something new from the huge powers and range of maneuvers of the DoJ that I wasn't aware of. And after the talking heads explain it, almost always unaware themselves that he was going to do it.