Saw this on FB - difference between men and women when asked how they avoid sexual assault

[meadowlark5]

What do men do on a day to day basis to avoid sexual assault opposed to what women do:

Truth. And important to remember, especially now. From Jackson Katz, PhD.... “I draw a line down the middle of a chalkboard, sketching a male symbol on one side and a female symbol on the other. Then I ask just the men: What steps do you guys take, on a daily basis, to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? At first there is a kind of awkward silence as the men try to figure out if they've been asked a trick question. The silence gives way to a smattering of nervous laughter. Occasionally, a young a guy will raise his hand and say, 'I stay out of prison.' This is typically followed by another moment of laughter, before someone finally raises his hand and soberly states, 'Nothing. I don't think about it.'

Then I ask women the same question. What steps do you take on a daily basis to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? Women throughout the audience immediately start raising their hands. As the men sit in stunned silence, the women recount safety precautions they take as part of their daily routine. Here are some of their answers: Hold my keys as a potential weapon. Look in the back seat of the car before getting in. Carry a cell phone. Don't go jogging at night. Lock all the windows when I sleep, even on hot summer nights. Be careful not to drink too much. Don't put my drink down and come back to it; make sure I see it being poured. Own a big dog. Carry Mace or pepper spray. Have an unlisted phone number. Have a man's voice on my answering machine. Park in well-lit areas. Don't use parking garages. Don't get on elevators with only one man, or with a group of men. Vary my route home from work. Watch what I wear. Don't use highway rest areas. Use a home alarm system. Don't wear headphones when jogging. Avoid forests or wooded areas, even in the daytime. Don't take a first-floor apartment. Go out in groups. Own a firearm. Meet men on first dates in public places. Make sure to have a car or cab fare. Don't make eye contact with men on the street. Make assertive eye contact with men on the street.”

[Roland99]

1. :(

[Demovictory9]

2. k&r

[donkeypoofed]

3. Owning penis is easier than owning a vagina

[RainCaster]

32. Less maintenance

[Delphinus]

4. Oh my god,

I just burst out crying. This is so true.

[Greywing]

6. I had the same reaction Delphinus

It doesn't matter how young or old we are ... from the time we are young girls we have been brought up to protect ourselves from sexual assault. And we all feel the need to do that every day.

I'm 62 and it was refered to "avoid drawing unwanted attention". A pinch of the butt, a tweak of the breast, being grabbed by some stupid fool thinking they can just give you an open mouthed slobbery "kiss" and so much more. I think this is why there is so much raw emotion for many of us as women right now we are free to call it for what it is and was - sexual assault. And with that freedom comes with the pain of all those tamped down memories ...

[Merlot]

11. Your post reminds me of that image of a soldier forcing a kiss on the nurse

"being grabbed by some stupid fool thinking they can just give you an open mouthed slobbery "kiss" "

look at that nurses body language...she's limp, not responding.

I absolutely hate that image, it gives me the creeps.

[Greywing]

13. And to think that photo was used as an iconic photo for so long

as an example of how people were expressing joy that WW2 was over ... the irony.

[colorado_ufo]

25. Very true.

But please forgive that young man. World War II was hell on Earth. It was such a relief to have it over and be back home again and be still alive, that it was an act more of unbounded joy rather than assault.

So many decades have passed that even those of us 50 or 60 years old, or even 70 or more, will not understand the full impact of this.

[Merlot]

34. Did the nurse feel "unbounded joy" at having a stranger force his tounge

down her throat...or do you think it felt more like an assault to her? Hint, look at her body language. If that image showed a woman celebrating and engaging in the moment, it would be a different situation and wouldn't creep me out in the least.

[colorado_ufo]

36. We are not sure that it was that kind of kiss.

I seem to recall from many years ago that the nurse was interviewed. I think I will check back with Google and see if I can find that. It would be interesting to see how she actually felt. Or perhaps, she didn't express how she felt and just talked about the situation.

Don't get me wrong. I am a woman who has suffered through my share of unpleasant situations! My sympathies are with Dr. Ford and others.

[Merlot]

37. That image gives men permission to grab a stranger and it's ok.

How she felt, beleive it or not, isn't the issue. It's making that image into an iconic image when everything about her body language says she's not participating.

It's the image that matters. I'm sure someone went and interviewed her and what do you expect her to say - that she hated being part of something that is now an iconic moment?

Anyhow, I was just posting my feelings on that image which I felt defined an earlier post. I don't care if other people like the image. I don't think that image would go over very well in contemporary times. It's a relic of the past and should stay there.

[colorado_ufo]

38. Well said.

[3Hotdogs]

46. I would go for "joy," given the number of women who claim to have been the nurse in the photo.

[marlakay]

14. Thinking about unwanted attention

And I realize that’s probably why all my life I don’t wear makeup or very little when i used to work and never tried to dress to get attention unless for my husband. I used to think it’s because I have a bit of hippie in me but after what you said and thinking back to attention I didn’t want in high school, I unconsciously have done this all my life. I am 62 also.

[Greywing]

26. I totally get that ... I just find myself having these

little epiphanies now and again as I get older and some kind of self-awareness is triggered.

The past 2 weeks with Dr. Ford have been an eye-opener for me personally. I had always blamed myself for any unwanted attention as though I must have done something wrong. It turns out it wasn't my fault at all! Painful but liberating.

[raccoon]

24. In my lifetime I've encountered stupid fools like this.

being grabbed by some stupid fool thinking they can just give you an open mouthed slobbery "kiss"

[Greywing]

27. I think too many of us have, my friend. n/t

[turbinetree]

5. And hearing Stephanie Miller talking about "Tiger Claws"..................

a woman's protection device.....................

[leftieNanner]

7. I would add

that when I am walking down the street by myself, I am constantly evaluating the people who are around me.

"Is that guy walking toward me a creep?"
"Who is behind me?"

Even in the day time.

[iluvtennis]

17. +++ Agree.

[oberliner]

8. What about non-binary?

[KitSileya]

43. Non-binary people as well as trans women and men are also on alert

But I bet you knew that. They have a high rate of being victims of assault as well, and quickly learn to be wary of cis men, who are the undisputed majority of perpetrators.

[yardwork]

45. What about them? What is your opinion?

[Oneironaut]

60. Imagine a world where that man walking down the street might clock you and then decide to kill you.

(Clock meaning determining that the sex you were assigned at birth is not the same as the gender you express now).

Now, rinse and repeat for every man walking down the road. Also, every car is being driven by your potential kidnapper and murderer. Groups of male teenagers are terrifying - especially if you’re alone.

You don’t have the strength to fight them off if you’re a woman - not even one of them. They can destroy you pretty quickly, and they know it. If you’re a man - you will probably be ambushed by a group of other men. Cowardice is a common trait of predators.

It doesn’t matter if you even looked at them. Many people feel that it’s their right to murder any transperson they find. Some courts agree with them.

While I’m not NB - I just described the problems everyone but straight men face. They will often say, “I can be attacked on the street too!” It’s not the same thing.

[Raven123]

9. Powerful messaging tactic

[Leghorn21]

10. This is fucking spectacular - thanks for posting, lark.

Such a simple question, but who ever thought to ask it?

Powerful. Simple.

WELL DONE

[meadowlark5]

19. That's what I thought when I saw it

Such a simple question but such glaringly different responses. I never even thought of it this way before.

[Danascot]

40. Predators prey on the vulnerable

In that moment you stopped being vulnerable.

[warmfeet]

12. Exactly.

This is just one aspect of male privilege.

Most males never realize they have it.

Most males will never admit they have enjoyed a lifetime with this privilege.

It is long past due for things to change, and to change dramatically.

[calimary]

15. So much for equality, 'eh?

[LuckyLib]

16. Many years ago, living in Ecuador, I travelled to a small resort town.

I went walking alone up some beautiful mountain trails. After a mile or so, In the distance ahead, I saw two men sitting on a fence along the path. I walked, debated, walked, debated, and finally turned around. To this day I remember the sadness -- as a woman I could not risk it. I still think about the freedom men would have in the same situation.

[meadowlark5]

20. I've done that before

Of course not that exact situation, but I have altered my path before to avoid men because I just didn't know.

[japple]

22. All women do that on a regular basis. There are so many beautiful areas where I would love to just

go to alone and experience the beauty of nature, but fear keeps me from it.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

18. +1. Truth. . . . nt

[Xipe Totec]

21. Ladies, can I share a story?

This is a repost originally posted Apr-14-2006

This morning I walked with a buddy to the ATM. When we got to the ATM, there was a woman already using it. It's mid morning but nobody else is around, just her and us guys walking toward the ATM booth. She saw us and I could see apprehension in her face, so I slowed my pace to keep some distance. My buddy was yakking away so he did not take notice. As he walks up to the door of the booth, she steps out, pushing the door open to block his path and rushes to her car parked next to the booth. My buddy steps into the booth while I'm still a few paces away, and the woman is already in her car, her door shut, stumbling for her keys. My buddy sees that she left her ATM card in the machine. He grabs it and rushes out to her car, taps on the window, and waves the card so she can see it. The woman is jumping out of her skin by now, seeing this guy appear out of the blue next to her car. After a second or so, she rolls the window down a crack, my buddy hands the card to her, the window closes, and off she goes. My buddy comes back to the ATM and goes about his business as if nothing happened.

Several things bothered me about this incident:

First, that we live in a world where the mere presence of men is enough to frighten a woman so much.

Second, that men take this a perfectly normal.

Third that, frankly speaking, this is reasonable behavior given the circumstances.

From time to time I find myself in situations, in parking lots especially, where I am the only male around and there is a female walking toward her car. I can sense the apprehension immediately, and I try to keep a respectful distance. Sometimes I have to walk a circle around her to avoid invading her perimeter.

This is so sad. Sometimes I wish I could just say. Do not fear me; I am not your enemy. I will keep my distance to prove I'm harmless. Go in peace, but please do not be frightened by me.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5028657

[meadowlark5]

47. I know there are good, decent and aware men out there

But thinking of my husband - if he encountered a woman in a similar situation, he wouldn't notice. I think part of men, good men, not noticing is because they have no bad intentions so it never even crosses their mind a woman could be nervous or scared in their presence.

Not until I read that question that I posted, I never really though of all of the ways I have adapted my life in an effort to be safe from men.

[CrispyQ]

48. Thank you for your awareness.

Maybe all this will make more men aware.

[hostalover]

23. What a powerful message!

[Hekate]

28. This. My entire life, and I turned 71 this week. nt

[Separation]

29. It all comes down to power

It doesn't matter if its rape, or the sexist remark in the office. It all comes down to man asserting power over women. I hope that if/when the women of this country get fed up enough to vote out these old white, "wasn't the 50's just a peach of a time" assholes out of office. I just don't see these men giving up that kind of power.

[liberal N proud]

30. As a father of two women and a husband I do think about it

Every time I know one of them is in a potentially dangerous situation I worry about them.
I say dangerous situation as one where they could be assaulted or even happened.

[keithbvadu2]

31. video for the ladies

Some videos for the ladies

Alas, it does not always work out in favor of the woman.

[narnian60]

41. This is really disturbing.

What a bastard. Bravo for her.

[dsc]

35. I will say that gay men do some of those things

the ones related to preventing date rape. I will say we usually don't check our cars, carry our keys as weapons etc. but we do not leave drinks unattended, go on first dates in public, I also usually make sure someone knows I am on said date just in case something happens.

[rickyhall]

39. Actually I used to deliver pizza

I was assaulted, but not sexually, & robbed 3 times. The last time I was beaten with a bar stool. kicked & pummeled by 3 assailants. So, yeah, I practiced several of those precautions mentioned above when delivering pizza, especially to dark apartment complexes. However, we had no women who delivered at night. I can ONLY imagine how scary it would be for a woman.

[Ijustgot_here]

42. BOOM, headshot

Male privilege and you didn't even know it, because not having to think about it IS YOUR PRIVILEGE!

[KitSileya]

44. It illustrates how different the world is for straight cis males vs everybody else.

It reminds me of the story told on an advice forum I frequent. The poster was relating an experience of her husband on a corporate workshop, where a young, beautiful, female colleague was pursued (harassed) by another male colleague. Poster's husband took up the position of buffer, escorting said female colleague and giving her some relief from awkward male colleague. He derailed several attempts A made to get Beautiful on her own. In the evening, after Poster's Husband and Beautiful had gone on a hike, for some reason P'sH hung back before going to his room, while B went to bed. On his way he discovered that A had cornered B outside her room at the end of the hallway. With the moment of distraction P'sH created, B managed to pop into her room and close and lock the door, and the workshop was over the day after.

How chivalrous of P'sH for helping B and providing her with a buffer, right? Poor A for being so awkward about girls, right? He shouldn't have been reported to the workshop manager for not being able to talk to a beautiful woman, amirite? But the QUESTION, which most women spot immediately, and most men do not, shows how differently we traverse this world. Why was A waiting for her outside her room at night?

Other important questions raised by this story are why was A's participation in the workshop considered more important than B's? Why was P'sH first instinct not to get A thrown out of the workshop for inappropriate behavior, but rather, as a 'safe' married man, to shadow B pretty much everywhere? Why was there an automatic assumption that A must have good intentions, and was only awkward instead of actively harassing B? Because that is what he was doing. Actively harassing B. And everyone gave him the benefit of the doubt (he must be awkward around women) instead of shutting it down when they were amply aware that the attention A gave B was unwanted. Why should the awkward men of the world get to hit on women again and again, instead of being told - "if you cannot learn body language, YOU need to learn when it is appropriate to flirt with women, and then you only get to ask her directly whether she is interested, and you MUST interpret anything other than an enthusiastic YES as a no and back the fuck off!' Otherwise other guys will police you and not leave that job up to the women.

[volstork]

49. As a woman, I have thought about this

a great deal over the years, and, to extrapolate, I have realized that this is how all people of color have to live their lives each day. Although female, I have the (unasked for, but acknowledged) luxury of white privilege. Being a POC , especially a female POC strips all of that away; fear stalks daily, and sometimes hourly.

[Nitram]

50. Thank you for posting.

This should be posted in every classroom and every office win the country.

[backtoblue]

51. Taking self-defense classes

Not wearing much, if any, makeup.

Being aware of my surroundings at all times

Never going into a closed off space with a man I'm not completely trusting of

It's sad. It's not fair. Always in a fight or flight mentality.

[gus1985]

52. Men are at risk too, Common sense and my observations

Women or men taking safety precautions mentioned above to prevent becoming any type of victim is common sense, I am pro safety/security and I practice good safety habits and do it without thinking.

Men are victims of crime as well including sexual assault which is under reported when men are victims .My stepfather a good man, My mother a strong woman mentally and physically made sure my brother and I understood that as did my grandmother another strong woman and discussed some of the more high profile cases as an example. Regardless of sexual orientation men can find themselves a victim of a sexual assault. Male victims have been ganged up on, drugged or overpowered by a strong male or just caught by surprise. It is important to practice safety and be able to recognize yellow and red flags.

In my social circles in my late teens/early 20's it seemed to be more of the women in my social circle not taking safety/security as serious as the men.

[uppityperson]

53. Yes, sexual assaults are underreported, regardless of gender or sexual orientation.And yes, everyone

should have safety awareness.

Sexual assault needs to be taken seriously, the survivors listened to and not blamed.

While I agree with this, please be careful because this sounds similar to responding "all lives matter" to pointing out that skin color too often makes a huge difference in police response. What women do is far more than men, as a whole, in being watchful. Do you agree?

[gus1985]

61. I agree, I was in no way minimizing women's risk/or crime statistics

I was in no way trying to minimize women's risk, Of course women are more at risk and are are the highest percentage of victims of sexual assault. It's sad and stomach turning. As a member of the LGB community I am aware certain groups and demographics are more at risk for certain crimes.

I agree that in general women are more safety minded in our nation, Just saying my experiences. Of course women are for the most part more watchful, At least on average compared to straight men.

I was not looking at it in a political sense more as just common sense life stuff.Of course we want the government to do all they can to prevent and when it happens punish crimes against women particularly sex crimes. Since the article also mentioned men I guess that is why I focused in on that part since I am a man and I have heard those hyper masculine types think it is crazy that it could happen to them.

[Tarc]

56. Buzz off with this BS, Mr. 1-post

"Men too!" belongs in the MAGA forums, not here.

[gus1985]

62. Chill out, Let me explain

1. I Cannot remember my old username/email or may have deleted it.

2. The article asked Men and Women what they did to prevent sexual assault, If it was asking about just women I would not be talking about sexual assault of men.

3. Men too, You know there are a lot of men in the LGBT community who certainly have to worry about sexual assault at a higher rate than straight guys, as well as hate crimes more than straight males. There are plenty of straight men on the left, and there is a chance they can be assaulted while not as high of risk.

4. Please do not encourage any more people to go to any kind of MAGA forums or groups.

Thank you!

[Tarc]

63. Still singing that "all lives matter"-esque tune?

Shoo.

[gus1985]

64. I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

But I am happy to agree to disagree. The article and the post is asking men and women what they do to prevent sexual assault. I acknowledge in a previous reply to another person of course women are at higher risk and are victims at a higher rate. If this was an post on what do women do to prevent sexual assault I would not have ever mentioned male sexual assault.

[NastyRiffraff]

54. Most of us have taken at least some of those steps

Women, that is. It's terrible, but we have to assume that we're going to be attacked. Especially those of us who HAVE been attacked.

[Alwaysna]

55. One thing that always pissed me off about some women who have sons.

Is the expression "A woman can run faster with her dress up than a man with his pants down" and other victim blaming from other women.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

58. Never heard that expression before. That's a weird one. n/t

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

57. I'm a woman and I honestly don't do anything

Fear isn't something that drives my actions or influences the way I think. I haven't had any experiences that would make me fearful either. I live in a low crime area right now and I don't worry about it. I used to live in Orlando, which has much more violent crime than this area does, but I was never worried about it then either. I'd go running by myself all the time. Wasn't worried about it back when I was dating either. Men and women are all just people. Yeah, some people suck. I'll deal with it if I have to. I figure it isn't likely to happen to me. No sense in wasting time being worried.

[CTyankee]

59. Back in the early seventies I rode the NYC subways to work and after my first experience with having

a guy "cop a feel" from under my skirt, I took to carrying a long, pointy umbrella (rain or shine) so I could wield it as a weapon. I would have jammed it into his nuts like you wouldn't believe...