MSNBC right now: Kavanaugh texted friends...

[dchill]

to refute Ramirez claims!

[blm]

1. He just fvcked up - bigtime

Bye Brett

[Hassin Bin Sober]

7. How so?

I hope so. But how?

[sheshe2]

22. Witness tampering from a Gawd Damn JUDGE!

[Fullduplexxx]

55. If it's just a job application how is it that those people are witnesses

[Blue_true]

100. Someone posted on DU.

Kavanaugh was to speak before a federal panel under oath. I think the statue said that he could not contact witnesses or potential witnesses.

[blm]

31. It's called Witness tampering

And he cannot claim he isn’t familiar with the law now, can he?

[FarPoint]

78. Yeap.....

Piss poor lawyer judge too.

[EffieBlack]

41. Didn't he also claim under oath he didn't know about Ramirez's allegation until it was published?

[tandem5]

69. Besides witness tampering -- perjury

from the transcript:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/national/wp/2018/09/27/kavanaugh-hearing-transcript/?utm_term=.88c5e50c26df

[Autumn]

72. Someone should be all over that.

[TheBlackAdder]

40. What a fucking moron.

[OliverQ]

61. Come on. You think witness tampering will stop Republicans from voting yes?

McConnell already said they're voting this week because this is all character assassination.

[blm]

67. I think Republicans lose at least 2 because of the additional issues.

.

[diva77]

2. is that considered witness tampering? is it a felony?

[dchill]

6. I think for a Yale Republican rapist it's just a boo boo.

[YessirAtsaFact]

16. Legal beagles please chime in!

It sure looks like a cover-up of criminal activity.

[Grasswire2]

17. this is not a criminal trial. So no. Not witness tampering under the law.

HOWEVER, that could change.

[diva77]

20. under what circumstance could it change?

[Grasswire2]

24. If he was charged. nt

[diva77]

30. Of course! ( I misinterpreted your previous post )

[diva77]

36. he has the weight of Dubya behind him, so it'll be an uphill battle for that

[Mr.Bill]

56. How about impeding an investigation? n/t

[Samspadesnark]

57. Witness tampering is not limited to criminal cases. Moreover,

You do not tell anyone what to tell the FBI. Ever. That is, if you want to be believed by the FBI when it comes your turn to be questioned by them. And to do it in text, leaving a permanent record? Now, to see whether he is lying about trying to influence a witness, the FBI can seize his cell phone – and God only knows what they would find there. One thing leads to another.

While it's true that witness tampering must involve intimidation or physical force, at least one witness in this situation (Dr. Ford) has already received death threats. Thus, any pressure exerted by Kavanaugh might be taken more seriously. Moreover, the question at this point is not whether Kavanaugh has committed the crime of witness tampering; it is whether the FBI will believe everything/anything he says. If I were Kavanaugh, I'd want the FBI to believe me 100 percent . . . . because if Kavanaugh is found NOT credible by the FBI, while simultaneously telling other people what to say to the FBI, he may set himself up for obstruction of justice charges.

Legal Definition of obstruction of justice:
The crime or act of willfully interfering with the process of justice and law especially by influencing, threatening, harming, or impeding a witness, potential witness, juror, or judicial or legal officer or by furnishing false information in or otherwise impeding an investigation or legal process
the defendant's obstruction of justice led to a more severe sentence

Kavanaugh is literally giving the FBI the middle finger at this point, the dumbest thing he could do. If the FBI doesn't believe that he is truthful, they could opine that other things in his sworn application papers are not true and then open this investigation up to include a lot more than just the sexual harassment allegations made by women against him. The worst sword on which he could fall would be lies about his finances. If that happened, he's really toast.

[uponit7771]

62. +1, "Kavanaugh is literally giving the FBI the middle finger at this point"

[Fred Sanders]

73. Yes. Tampering with public opinion for sure though.

[Kaleva]

99. This law may say otherwise

"1729. Protection Of Government Processes -- Tampering With Victims, Witnesses, Or Informants -- 18 U.S.C. 1512

Section 1512 of Title 18 constitutes a broad prohibition against tampering with a witness, victim or informant. It proscribes conduct intended to illegitimately affect the presentation of evidence in Federal proceedings or the communication of information to Federal law enforcement officers. It applies to proceedings before Congress, executive departments, and administrative agencies, and to civil and criminal judicial proceedings, including grand jury proceedings. See 18 U.S.C. § 1515(a)(1). In addition, the section provides extraterritorial Federal jurisdiction over the offenses created therein. See 18 U.S.C. § 1512(g); 128 Cong. Rec. H8469 (daily ed. Oct. 1, 1980); H. R. Rep. No. 1369, 96th Cong., 2d Sess. 20-22 (1980)."

https://www.justice.gov/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1729-protection-government-processes-tampering-victims-witnesses-or

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11219934

[hatrack]

50. Hey! He went to YALE!!! He likes BEER!!!! This is a SMEAR!!!!!

[Grasswire2]

70. From WaPo -- just a part of a column.

Last edited Mon Oct 1, 2018, 08:45 PM - Edit history (1)

HOW DARE YOU?!
HOW DARE YOU DO THIS TO BRETT KAVANAUGH?
HOW DARE YOU DENY HIM THIS SEAT?!

Listen, NO, YOU listen!
Do you know who Brett Kavanaugh is? Brett Kavanaugh went to Georgetown Prep!
BRETT KAVANAUGH IS AN OPTIMIST WHO LOOKS ON THE SUNSHINE SIDE OF THE MOUNTAIN!
BRETT KAVANAUGH IS NOT YELLING!
YOU’RE YELLING!

If Brett does not secure a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court, this country will be IN SHAMBLES! THIS IS HIS BIRTHRIGHT! Do you know how embarrassing it is for a Georgetown Prep graduate to NOT be on the Supreme Court? They are literally 12 PERCENT of the court! THIS IS PROBABLY THE WORST INDIGNITY YOU CAN INFLICT ON A HUMAN BEING!

ALL BRETT IS ASKING FOR IS DUE PROCESS! DUE PROCESS BEFORE HE IS DEPRIVED OF HIS GOD-GIVEN RIGHT TO A SEAT ON THE HIGHEST COURT IN THE LAND, WHERE HE WILL DETERMINE THE FATES OF MILLIONS!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2018/09/27/how-dare-you-do-this-to-brett-kavanaugh/?utm_term=.55c030780904

[renate]

79. that's wonderful! n/t

[JonLP24]

3. Is this bad for Kavanaugh?

I'm watching the Rockies lose.

[Brother Buzz]

34. Your Rockies had it all but wrapped up....

That is, until my Giants got swept by the Dodgers over the weekend and put the Bums right back in the game.

Single tiebreaker games are a crapshot, why not a three game series?

[LandOfHopeAndDreams]

37. You're Watching The Dodgers Win! nt

[MontanaMama]

58. Dang.

Was hoping my Cubs would be playing the Rockies tomorrow.

Back to Kavanope...this can’t be good for him, can it?

[SaintLouisBlues]

103. Don't worry

[aggiesal]

85. Sad, I hate LA ...

Go Cubs Go!

[MontanaMama]

107. Smooch!

[YessirAtsaFact]

4. He went to Yale and doesn't understand that text messages are not secure?

He may be smart, but he's not very wise.

[malaise]

26. Marley says it best

Why boasteth thyself oh evil man
Playing smart and not being clever

Small Axe
https://m.

[certainot]

104. that's the biggest bud i've ever seen!

[wcmagumba]

5. Not a shred of ethics or morality...

in these "bastard people"...Corky St. Clair

[The Genealogist]

21. Well, he can just bite his pillow

What a slimeball he is!

[malaise]

8. Oops!

He's fucked. Well he fucked himself! How perfect.

[HipChick]

33. What an idiot..

[malaise]

43. Too smart for his own good

[MontanaMama]

59. He's probably under the influence, so...

fucking himself while inebriated is in his wheelhouse of expertise, eh?

[malaise]

68. Yes and

lOL.

[donkeypoofed]

9. If that is true, then Ramirez' s claim is true

Last edited Mon Oct 1, 2018, 06:41 PM - Edit history (1)

That's very incriminating. Innocent people don't do that.

[dchill]

14. Seems obvious, doesn't it?

[uponit7771]

65. +1

[pazzyanne]

86. Look where that got Manafort.

GO TO JAIL
Do not pass go.
Do not collect $200.

[KTinaY2008]

10. I thought during the hearing

he said he had not reached out to any of the witnesses.
What a liar.

[Grasswire2]

19. I think he just did it, after the hearing. nt

[dchill]

35. So somebody just gave him the idea!

[W_HAMILTON]

52. No.

The article from NBC News points out that he reached out to them as early as July:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/mutual-friend-ramirez-kavanaugh-anxious-come-forward-evidence-n915566?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

[Autumn]

74. No, he reached out to them before her story was released.

[Samspadesnark]

96. I read that he did it at least as early as last July.

Clearly he lied under oath about this. He should be in a flop sweat now, unless he's just too drunk/high to notice.

[Grasswire2]

98. Yes, you are right. I was wrong. nt

[eleny]

11. Ooops!

..... .....

[BigmanPigman]

12. The text messages show that Brett and his "team"

wanted the friend to go on the record to defend him. Is this witness tampering?

[dchill]

18. If it's not, then nothing is.

[Grasswire2]

23. not a criminal trial

Just a hearing for confirmation.

[BigmanPigman]

28. So it is not illegal than?

[dchill]

38. Suborning perjury IOKIYAR?

[onenote]

54. No it's not. Here's the federal witness tampering statute

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1512

[Silver Gaia]

75. What's the definition of "an official proceeding"?

[onenote]

80. That's not the relevant question.

Even it is an "official proceeding" (and I think it is), texting someone about their testimony in and of itself doesn't constitute witness tampering under the statute.

[Silver Gaia]

93. I am trying to understand this.

So, it does not fit under this section?

(b) Whoever knowingly uses intimidation, threatens, or corruptly persuades another person, or attempts to do so, or engages in misleading conduct toward another person, with intent to—
(1) influence, delay, or prevent the testimony of any person in an official proceeding;
(2) cause or induce any person to—
(A) withhold testimony, or withhold a record, document, or other object, from an official proceeding;
(B) alter, destroy, mutilate, or conceal an object with intent to impair the object’s integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding;
(C) evade legal process summoning that person to appear as a witness, or to produce a record, document, or other object, in an official proceeding; or...[etc.]

Text messages aren't mentioned, but I wouldn't expect them to be. Would this not be "corruptly persuading" someone?

[onenote]

97. Corruptly has been narrowly interpreted by the courts.

Indeed, a 7-2 majority (with Alito and Thomas dissenting) concluded that an over broad reading of "corruptly' would put too much power in prosecutors' hands. Even the dissent acknowledged that showing that someone acted “corruptly” requires proof that the defendant both knew he was obtaining an “unlawful" benefit and that the defendant's objective or purpose was to obtain that "unlawful" benefit. The problem here is that, at least as described, the texts weren't trying to do any of the unlawful acts described in the statute.

[Silver Gaia]

106. OK. Thanks.

That helps. I haven't seen any of the texts in question, so don't have an opinion on that. Basically, I think he absolutely was tampering with witnesses, but in a sneaky way that he knew would be difficult to prove, especially in the brief time he knew would be alotted to investigating him.

Thanks for your patience with my questions.

[sarah FAILIN]

101. What if..

You tell them to say what backs you up instead of what happened? Asking them to lie..

[C_U_L8R]

13. The cover-up gets 'em every time

Bye K.

[avebury]

15. And a friend has tried to talk to the FBI

because siphe felt they need to investigate. Ramirez was obviously trying to avoid him on another occasion and appeared fearful of him. It sure sounds like he is trying to obstruct the investigation.

He wanted to make a picture disappear that had both of them on opposite sides of the picture.

[dchill]

27. Something is going to have to break ...

this FBI investigation out of its chains.

[triron]

25. witness tampering?

[mainstreetonce]

29. MSNBC. Photo?

Showed a photo with two people circled.
Does anyone know who they were?

[avebury]

39. Kavanaugh and Ramirez

Kavanaugh wanted to make that picture disappear.

[mainstreetonce]

42. There is actually a picture of Ramirez in a group with Brett?

Wow!

[EffieBlack]

45. Or the other way around

He wanted to use the pic you sent me show they were copacetic...

[dchill]

32. New MSNBC: FBI expanding probe after Trump backs down.

[mcar]

44. Holy shite!

How did this guy graduate from law school?

[dchill]

46. Law degrees for sale - right here at Yale.

[Nevilledog]

48. With a .20 BAC, apparently.

[mcar]

49. ...

[dchill]

51. His best grade!

[rzemanfl]

77. You win the thread. n/t

[Nevilledog]

108. Hey!

[magicarpet]

53. Affluent/White - Privilege

Right zip code
Right prep school
Right connections
Mommy a DA then a judge
Member of the right golf course
Spoiled rotten only child
Athletic prowess - backed up by coaches

[uponit7771]

64. +1

[JI7]

66. if you have money, name, connections, that's all one needs

just like how kushner brothers went to harvard after huge donation from parents.

[Scurrilous]

47. ...

[OliverQ]

60. Perjury, witness tampering, and sexual assault.

This man needs to be in jail and disbarred. Not put on the Supreme Court.

[uponit7771]

63. So another BK lie under oath

[tandem5]

71. From Kavanaugh's testimony...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/national/wp/2018/09/27/kavanaugh-hearing-transcript/?utm_term=.869cec2a8044

[underthematrix]

76. Oh damn. Now witness tampering

[bearsfootball516]

81. I'm absolutely no legal expert, but this isn't a criminal trial, so does it matter legally?

Sure it's super shady, but it doesn't sound like it's actually illegal because it's not a trial.

[MrScorpio]

82. Oh, yeah. Witness tampering

This gets curiouser and curiouser

[BumRushDaShow]

83. Before Tweety's show ended, his closing monologue said that the "tampering" ALSO applies to Congress

which had me doing this -

I.e., the hearings are considered "proceedings".

1729. Protection Of Government Processes -- Tampering With Victims, Witnesses, Or Informants -- 18 U.S.C. 1512

Section 1512 of Title 18 constitutes a broad prohibition against tampering with a witness, victim or informant. It proscribes conduct intended to illegitimately affect the presentation of evidence in Federal proceedings or the communication of information to Federal law enforcement officers. It applies to proceedings before Congress, executive departments, and administrative agencies, and to civil and criminal judicial proceedings, including grand jury proceedings. See 18 U.S.C. § 1515(a)(1). In addition, the section provides extraterritorial Federal jurisdiction over the offenses created therein. See 18 U.S.C. § 1512(g); 128 Cong. Rec. H8469 (daily ed. Oct. 1, 1980); H. R. Rep. No. 1369, 96th Cong., 2d Sess. 20-22 (1980).

https://www.justice.gov/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1729-protection-government-processes-tampering-victims-witnesses-or

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1512

[FarPoint]

87. Well DONE

BRAVO....and Thank YOU!....

[BumRushDaShow]

89. When I was hunting around

I believe the addition of "Congress" and other entities outside of the judicial system happened via legislation passed in the early '80s.

[wiggs]

84. the nation should be grateful that once again the dems are doing the heavy lifting to

avoid catastrophe.

[honest.abe]

88. That sounds seriously bad.

This has to be the end of him.

[dchill]

90. I agree with your assessment.

But my name is not McConnell.

[honest.abe]

94. Good point.

But we dont need McConnell.. just a couple of Repubs to say they won't vote for this lying drunkard jerk.

[dchill]

95. I'm truly hoping for exactly that.

[LAS14]

91. How did anyone find out about...

.... these texts? I'm not doubting they exist, but I'm just curious as to how stuff like this gets leaked. Did some recipient call up a news organization? Are there other ways to discover people's texts?

tia
las

[BumRushDaShow]

102. The reporter was just on Rachel's show (Joy is in for Rachel) & was on Tweety's show earlier

Apparently one of his friends (Kerry Bercham) had copies of some of the texts and included them in a "memo" that she is trying to get to the FBI.

On Sunday, Berchem emailed FBI agent J.C. McDonough her memo. After getting no response, she resent the summary on Monday morning along with screenshots of certain texts that she thinks raise questions that should be investigated. “I’m sure he’s really busy and expect that he’ll get back to me,” said Berchem.

Berchem’s memo outlining her correspondence with Yarasavage shows there’s a circle of Kavanaugh friends who may have pertinent information and evidence relevant to the inquiry who may not be interviewed. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has already set in motion a vote on Kavanaugh’s nomination on the Senate floor for later this week.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/mutual-friend-ramirez-kavanaugh-anxious-come-forward-evidence-n915566

[LAS14]

109. Ah! Thanks very much. nt

[Ilsa]

92. He's unqualified. He's an unethical liar.

Kick his ass into private sector.

[Retrograde]

105. This guy seems to be a flat-out bad lawyer

as in incompetent: contacting potential witnesses before accusations come to light to make sure they're singing the right song? Trying to intimidate them after accusations surface? Has he ever practiced, or did he just go from political operative to appointment to a federal court by a fellow Yalie without doing any legal work in between?