I just alerted my brother I will no longer talk to him.

[Goodheart]

He has crossed the line by calling Dr. Ford a "lying bitch".

I'm truly, truly sad that my own brother is among the basket of deplorables.

Did this need its own thread? Probably not.

[zanana1]

1. My sister and I no longer speak for that same reason. nt

[olegramps]

46. Trump and his cadre of have succeeded in driving the nation into hopeless division.

He has succeeded in turning citizens against citizen, brother against brother and sister against sister, Trump is jubilant. He has cause for celebration. His message of division and hatred has been such a success that he can cleave even the sacred bond the holds families together during the most stressful of times. He can be likened to one of the Horseman of the Apocalypse spreading hatred and basking in the spoils of his conquest.


There is a ray of hope. But it is up to the citizens to reclaim their county November at the ballot box. The country is under the control of a party that has been infected with such a lust for power that its leadership has become so morally corrupted that it will use any means to retain power. Each succeeding Republican administration has become increasingly more corrupt. The Nixon administration was so corrupt that its vice president was forced to resign for bribery, its president had to resign for corruption and his aides sent to prison, Reagan's saw twenty four of its administration indicted and many sent to prison, Bush the younger took us to war on outright lies costing the death of over 5,000 of our soldiers and tens of thousands hopeless maimed as his friends and supporters reaped millions in war profits. Their latest present for the nation is so corrupt that he defies description.

[Duppers]

102. He has revealed who they are. nt

[kag]

104. Beautifully written.

Thanks, olegramps. What an eloquent description of the progression of evil that we have seen unfold.

[CharleyDog]

113. it is important to remember, our degradation is from REPUBLICANS.

Republicans are doing this.

[FakeNoose]

127. I'm going to disagree slightly

Remember that a lot of people in the Republican Party are just as appalled as we are.

It's the Libertarians - the crazy right-wing nutjobs - who took over the Republican Party who are doing this. They know that Cheeto is an idiotic windbag and they're using him to achieve their agenda of destroying our government.

We need to convince the sane Republicans to join with us and put this nightmare to its ignominious end. I really think that many of them are willing, but they're not gonna tell us. They're just going to quietly stay home on Nov. 6th.

[krkaufman]

147. Far too few

No, it’s Republicans, whether Conservative, Evangelical, Libertarian, White Supremacist, whatever. The polling indicates far too few object to Trumpism.

[MadDAsHell]

131. We were in this place way before the Orange Turd.

Every election since 2000 has been claimed to have been stolen. The opposite political party isn’t just an opponent; they’re thieves.

The political opponent isn’t just different, they’re EVIL, they’re STUPID, they’re SATAN INCARNATE.

We’ve been in a very sad place in this country for at least 2 decades.

[olegramps]

159. I very much agree. As Obama reflected that Trump is the result, the symptom not the exception.

They have pursued a campaign to polarize the nation. They have succeeded in dividing the citizens turning them into enemies with their message of hatred of anyone who doesn't yield to their demands. It is a message of total intolerance that extends to any group they consider a threat to their dominance especially based on race. They masses are victims of demagogues who play on their fears and provide a scapegoat for the own failures. They have been transformed into innocent victims that through no fault of their own have been betrayed by radical liberals. The exploitation extends through the entire spectrum from race, religion, sexual orientation, economic class, to what ever is the present day event.

[OnDoutside]

2. Life is too short to be dealing with such ignorance.

[samnsara]

3. im no longer speaking to my t party sis...

..I cant trust her judgement on anything any more....

[Funtatlaguy]

4. Brother against brother. Another Civil War is not out of the question if things get worse.

[The Liberal Lion]

47. I think it's inevitable

but that's just me. We shall see. I'm ready regardless.

[DownriverDem]

62. Except

It won't be geographical. How will we know who we are fighting? I'm white and do not want folks to think I support trump and the repubs.

[CrispyQ]

76. This.

When you look at an electoral map by state, it looks like red dominates the center of the land. But when you look at one broken down by county, it's a whole other story. Those red areas are not one big color block of red. There's a ton of blue in there, too.

[jdoyle1x1]

105. 2016 map

?resize=570%2C366

[highmindedhavi]

116. is this real?

[reACTIONary]

143. It's real, but deceptive . .,,

,.... in general the red counties are low population areas. Some of those small blue dots contain more voters than some states.

Wyoming 563,626
LA County 10,000,000

[klook]

146. Great point. I've seen maps with

vertical 3D "bars" extending from each state or district to show population density. That's a much more elegant and more nearly accurate way to depict the data.

[AlexSFCA]

150. the map is very much on point in light of electoral college

those thousands of folks in wyoming may as well be counted as millions.

[John Fante]

151. Maybe, but they're still the minority.

and they won't have the electoral college to save them in 2018.

[reACTIONary]

158. Not really . ...

... electoral votes are roughly proportionsl to the population of a state: the sum of repeseatives and senators.

It is the winner take all asspect that creates the anti-majority structural bias in the electoral colllege. And this works to favor the Democratic party.

For instance, in a real red stste like wyoming with very few dems, only a few dem votes are canceled by winner take all. And only a smal number of electoral votes are gained. In a large blue state like California where there are a higher percentage of repubs but no where near the number needed to make the state red, a whole lot more repub votes are cancled than the number of dem votes canceled in Wyoming. And a whole lot more electoral votes are gained.

Right now the Democratics have the advantage in the electoral collage.

[CrispyQ]

121. I couldn't have been more wrong.

Then I thought I meant Congressional districts, but it's almost as bad. Now I'm super depressed. This country is seriously fucked.

[LanternWaste]

122. You've figured out the difference between common and rare, yes?

[spike jones]

125. election maps based on population not area

https://www.businessinsider.com/2016-election-results-maps-population-adjusted-cartogram-2016-11

[Pope George Ringo II]

130. I also like the vertical ones.

Slight offset rather than the direct overhead, and huge blue stacks jutting out of a mostly red carpet.

[CentralMass]

129. The very low voter turnout was a factor.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/11/10/why-did-trump-win-in-part-because-voter-turnout-plunged/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.83ab5fc545b0
"While Trump managed to gain an electoral college victory, not only did he get fewer votes than Hillary Clinton — a fact that, remarkably, seems to merit nothing more than a footnote in almost every discussion of the election — he got fewer votes than Mitt Romney in 2012, fewer votes than John McCain in 2008, and fewer votes than George W. Bush in 2004. In total, fewer than 26 percent of eligible American voters cast their ballots for the man who will occupy the Oval Office come January."

"What’s also important here is how poorly Hillary Clinton did. She got 6 million fewer votes than Barack Obama did in 2012, and nearly 10 million fewer than he did in 2008:"

[calimary]

148. Welcome to DU, jdoyle1x1.

Yeah, that looks like a discouraging map, until you realize that it reflects a LOT of wide-open spaces. Farm country. Cattle country. Low-population centers. The blue bits are all large population centers. Yeah, we cling to the coastlines but that's where a lot of the actual PEOPLE are. Acres of corn stalks and wheat fields and pastures full of grazing cows don't get to vote. Yet.

[JI7]

156. yes, most of the higher populated cities within Red States can be VERY Blue

[CaptainTruth]

64. IMHO Civil War II has already begun.

This battle is not being fought with guns & cannons, but with the modern weapons of lies, propaganda, social media, voter supression, hacking etc.

The Republican party has allied themselves with a foreign adversary (Russia) to attack our institutions & destroy the foundations of our country - our Constitution, our laws, & the standards of liberty & justice for all.

[dchill]

144. And that IS the Truth, Captain.

[calimary]

69. It IS developing into a latter-day Civil War.

I have NEVER seen the country this severely divided. And now it’s gender against gender.

This is getting uglier and uglier.

[Ligyron]

83. I've never seen it this divided either.

The worst of the sixties were a love fest compared to this.

[customerserviceguy]

110. Agreed

I remember there being open talk of a race war. A lot of people think of the 1960's as being nothing but peace, love, sex, drugs and rock-and-roll, but we had really bad riots in most major American cities starting in 1965, and culminating in some huge ones in 1968, most notably after MLK was murdered.

[OnlinePoker]

81. Didn't Alex Jones say the left would start a civil war this past July 4th?

I don't think it's the left that will kick it off.

[Ellen Forradalom]

112. Project and reverse

It's what abusers do

[BigmanPigman]

141. Good article in NY Times about this.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/02/opinion/the-american-civil-war-part-ii.html
"...that’s why our generation’s civil war is so hard to bring to a truce. There are so many fronts. There’s the battle between those who feel the American dream has slipped from their grasp and those who can easily pass it on to their kids. There’s the one between rural small-town Americans and “globalized” city slickers, who, the small-town folks are sure, look down upon them. There’s the fight between the white working-class Americans who feel that their identities are being lost in an increasingly minority-majority country and the Americans who embrace multiculturalism. And there’s the struggle between men who believe that their gender still confers certain powers and privileges and the women challenging that. There are so many fields of dispute."
"In essence, we’ve moved from “partisanship,” which still allowed for political compromises in the end, “to tribalism,” which does not, explained political scientist Norman Ornstein, co-author, with Thomas Mann, of the book “It’s Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided With the New Politics of Extremism.” In a tribal world it’s rule or die, compromise is a sin, enemies must be crushed and power must be held at all costs."

"It would be easy to blame both sides equally for this shift, noted Ornstein, but it is just not true. After the end of the Cold War, he said, “tribal politics were introduced by Newt Gingrich when he came to Congress 40 years ago,” and then perfected by Mitch McConnell during the Barack Obama presidency, when McConnell declared his intention to use his G.O.P. Senate caucus to make Obama fail as a strategy for getting Republicans back in power."

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

5. Hey, there's nothing wrong with making a thread.

I'm sorry about your brother. I'm sure that hurts a lot. I would say, maybe stop talking to him for now, but don't commit to forever. He could still change. Let him know you care about him. Explain what it is that he is doing that bothers you. Try not to be too mean about it though. Be the better person and give him a chance to come around.

[Goodheart]

6. Every day feels like a nightmare to me.

And, I promise you, I'm a very sane person.

[Ligyron]

86. You are absolutely right.

The biggest problem going forward always seems to be: those Trump loving type personalities seldom admit to ever being wrong. Their entitlement to victim-hood often knows no bounds.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

88. Maybe true..

But we have to give them time. It might take years. It might not ever happen for some.

[Ligyron]

91. Oh, I'd be the very first to welcome them back to sanity if it happened.

And some of them are just marginal, don't really pay attention to politics or just want to be on what they perceive to be the "winning team". Think their taxes are gonna go down or some shit.

But if they are avid Faux News watchers and/or Brietbart type media consumers? You can almost forget it.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

97. Yeah, the first type you mentioned is much easier to deal with

because their minds aren't so made up. They are uninformed/misinformed and they usually don't care about politics all that much so they aren't all that put off by someone politely disagreeing with them. That group accounts for a lot of people though. Those people are definitely reachable, but I think you can't be angling to change their minds. I think just being their friend, sharing your perspective while respecting theirs... they'll consider what you have to say. It has to be casual.

The ones with a religious bent are also hard to deal with. I have a friend like that. No chance she'll change her mind about politics because she makes those decisions based on religious thinking. I know she doesn't want bad things to happen to other people, but her religion feeds her all the wrong ideas about how to help people. It's kind of messed up. She means well.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. I'm not the DU Grand Poobah but I encourage you to post what you want.

[vlyons]

8. You might want to amend your thinking on that

to be "I will not talk to you for now." There's always the possibility, no matter how seemingly remote, that someone will have an epiphany and see the light. Besides, he's your brother. Pretty hard to persuade someone to see the light if you won't talk to him.

People like your brother have some sort of cement in their hearts that has shut out empathy. More importantly, their minds are filled with all sorts of illogical assumptions, beliefs, prejudices. What I call dark delusions, filled with negative emotions.

Sometime ask your brother, when was the last time he remembers a stranger, or someone he barely knows, who did him a totally unexpected kindness that really mattered to him?

[mythology]

29. Sometimes for your own health, you need to back away from a person

I haven't talked to my biological dad in 19 years. Sure I can't change him by not talking to him, but my efforts to explain to him that he was an abusive ass never worked. Maybe someone else could have, but I couldn't. No need to spend my time and emotional health reserves in dealing with him.

[kiri]

78. Julia Sweeney's dad refused to speak a word to her because...

Remember Julia Sweeney. When she told her dad that she was an atheist, he refused to speak a word to her for ~8 years, not a hello, not a goodbye.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

32. Yeah, I was saying the same thing

I think that is a better thing to say. Gives that other person some hope that you will be there for them if they do change. Who knows, maybe it would motivate them to change. They at least know that you care about them in some way, but you can't handle them right now. The future might be different. No one knows.

[pazzyanne]

63. My sister went off the rails about 10 years ago with the tea party.

I, being the peacemaker in the family, rode the middle of the road trying to patch the tears in the family fabric for literally years. Being kind, placating, trying to bridge the gaps. It just kept getting worse. I finally had to abandon her or lose myself.

[SunSeeker]

9. My brother is the same way. Staying away is best for your well-being. nt

[sarah FAILIN]

10. This is common now

I haven't had anything like do with mine since 2008.

[SimpleC]

11. I don't think trump should split siblings...

I was faced with a similar quandary with my own brother...

My brother has always been a free-thinker and very intelligent... in his heart of hearts I don't believe him to be an asshole...

Imagine my surprise when I talked to him last and he was spouting off shit right out of Fox News and even hurrumpt me when I called Fox News a propaganda machine.

He's become a trumper.

I believe one day he'll see the light and unfortunately with him I'm going to have to be like... "I told you so..."

It's not the first time I've seen him follow some stupid shit and I can only pray he'll grow out of it...

I'm not going to give up on him...

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

162. Yeah, maybe the people that seem to follow fads in general are more susceptible to Trump. n/t

[greytdemocrat]

12. That's sad.

[tymorial]

13. You need understanding and someone to listen to you

I get it and I am extremely sorry.

[Turbineguy]

14. My Brother-in-Law

Is a t-party type. We started out as colleagues, then friends and then his Wife's younger Sister and I got married. He knows and I know and he knows that I know etc.. We have an unwritten, unspoken rule. Never discuss politics.

He has on occasion, halting gone in that direction like a man gingerly walking through a minefield.

I didn't let Bush break up my family and friendships and I'm denying trump that happiness too. Although I have let go one or two FB friends.

[hostalover]

82. Yours sounds like my family in a way.

I have a dear cousin, grew up together. I know he is a solid right winger and he knows I am a solid left winger. We simply do not discuss politics. His brother, my other cousin, is a moderate repub, and I know he and his wife are more on my side, but again, when cousin #1 is around, politics are not discussed.

I appreciate your comment about not letting Bush or Trump break up your family. I feel the same way. Some of the success we have in my family, I think, is that the right wingers are not bombastic, ugly, etc.. at least not around me! I did hang up on a long time friend, though, when she said we weren't giving Trump a chance

[lpbk2713]

15. Faux Bot

So sorry to hear this. The real shame is an asshole like Trump has come between family members.

[Paladin]

16. Good. (nt)

[RestoreAmerica2020]

17. maxim: qui tacet consentit [silence gives consent]

[jpljr77]

18. Politics is absolutely no reason to sever ties with your brother. That's a lazy response.

Besides, if you really do follow through with that, then the terrorists (Republicans/"conservatives&quot are winning.

[ProfessorGAC]

21. Of Course It Is

The "sanctity" of family is already a ridiculous construct. Nobody gets to pick their family and sometimes family members just happen to be people one would NEVER pick to be a friend.

So, since it is a casual relationship to begin with, politics is as good as any reason to identify that ties are best cut.

[olegramps]

50. My grandfather told me: God gives you your relatives, you pick your friends.

[SWBTATTReg]

74. Your grandfather is a wise man. Thanks for sharing this saying. I love it. NT

[Wounded Bear]

22. Good luck with that line of "reasoning"...

That kind of toxicity is contagious. If a sibling can force one to condone that kind of talk/behavior with no consequences, that would indicate a toxic power arrangement that one should excape.

[BeyondGeography]

33. This stuff can be very bad for your health

I cut off a family member a long time ago and politics was a big part of it. If we weren't ferociously at odds in politics we could have worked past all the other stuff. Sometimes I wonder if I was being a little thin-skinned. In times like these, ie the entire Trump presidency, I know I did the right thing. And right now it would be particularly vile dealing with his cruelty. Life really is too short.

[Boomer]

43. What a toxic response

Setting boundaries for one's own sanity is never off the table.

Politics is a reflection of our values and priorities in life, and there's room to agree to disagree, but only up to a point. And that point is a very personal decision.

Maintaining ties with my blood family isn't that much of a priority anymore. The differences between us are just too great a chasm and I grew tired of accepting that they disapproved of my being gay, Hispanic and a liberal atheist. Some of those, you'll note, are things I can't even change about myself even if I wanted to (which I don't).

Family is supposed to be people who have our back, who share our struggle in life. If they make that struggle worse, what's even the point?

[Different Drummer]

92. +1,000,000. n/t

[The Liberal Lion]

52. In normal times you would be right

as in normal times we are only talking about the difference between economic policy and merely rhetoric on social policy. These times are different. This is not merely politics, but rather it's an orientation in life. We find those who cling to trumpism and right wingism are now bent on destruction of civility as well as collapse of our environment. They will have us bend our knee to pure evil instead of continuing down the path of egalitarian justice. In so saying, I don't think the this poster is being lazy by cutting off his brother, hell he should have done it as soon as the man said he supported trump. No, this is an act of courage that will be repeated many millions of times across this nation as we move forward. Every trumpster, no matter how close in the family, should be the subject of disdain and complete rejection. This is not a time for kumbaya. We are at war, like it or not.

[Oppaloopa]

66. True

[nini]

71. Sharing DNA doesn't mean we have to tolearate them when they cross a line

Sadly, some family members are supporting this fascist regime. They are hateful. who needs that crap in their life?

[bluestarone]

19. Man i can certainly relate to your problem!!

RUMP is DESTROYING this country!! All my siblings (5) are religious rights, and are RUMPIES! I cannot believe how easy Rump earned their praise! Totally unexplainable to me! I feel the SAME as you do!!!

[angrychair]

20. My list is longer than I would like

But I will not compromise. I don’t talk to a host of former “friends” and a couple family members, an uncle and my mil.
I will only tolerate so much and memes or comments meant to be racist or sexist or blatantly hateful, just to much for me to deal with so I don’t.

Wife still try’s to put it aside and ignore it, desperately clinging to the “disagree without being disagreeable” but these people clearly show, almost daily, they have no intention of honoring that ethos.

[pintobean]

23. I feel sorry for both of you.

Putting politics over love is just sad. You should talk and find a way around this.

[GusBob]

79. Its not politics and its not love

It abnormal human behavior and ones family and fear of hatred.

my brother, who started in with Hillary Clinton with this sort of hateful talk, is not allowed my wife and daughters

and they don't want to be around him for fear of his hatred

has nothing to do with politics, its misogyny

big difference

[Goodheart]

95. Putting politics over love? Sure.

Politics matter. As sad as it might be (quite sad, actually), I can live without my brother. I can't live outside of politics. Nobody can.

[lunamagica]

103. Politics? You call supporting someone who mocks the disabled politics? You call supporting

someone who separates families politics? You call supporting someone who will take health insurance away from millions because they have pre-existing conditions politics? Insulting a sexual abuse victim is politics? I could go on, and on, and on and on, and on...

I'm sick and tired of people treating politics like it was some football game. "We're support different teams, so what?"

No, politics involve life or death issues. And supporting trump tells me all I need to know about someones values, and the care and respect they have for the most vulnerable of out society.

[pintobean]

107. Don't worry

I'm not sad for you.

[lunamagica]

108. Why would I worry?

[Atticus]

135. This. nt

[LuckyLib]

119. Politics is about morality and values.

We live in it and of it every day. Many are choosing to stay away from folks whose morals and values are toxic. Family or no family. Life is short, and we need to surround ourselves with the beauty of nature and people who want to share the earth in a way that enriches us all.

[pintobean]

132. I thought that was religion.

[JI7]

157. you know people use politics to push their shitty religion like taking away gay rights

because of morals or some shit.

same people support Trump bragging about sexual assault while attack victims of sexual assault.

so these are moral issues.

[GoCubsGo]

24. I'm sorry. I have a brother like that, too.

I haven't heard him call Dr. Ford such a name--but I'm pretty sure he believes she is lying.

[SWBTATTReg]

25. You know, we all have challenges enough in life to have to worry about our own family ...

not being in our corner. Believe me, I know this. I'm the same way in not dealing w/ some of my siblings and mother, but my situation is not due to rump (in could in one situation) but to too much drinking on their part constantly. And I tried to get them help, but if they don't want to persist and use the help, then so be it. I'm tried too many times, had too many late night horror phone calls, emails, and the like that I pretty well disappeared from my immediate family and don't want to deal w/ them. My own family and life now is far more important to me.

Life is way too short to really waste time on trying to talk w/ people who won't not just talk, but listen, which is the most critical thing. I know because I have a 95% hearing loss, and listening is the most important thing of all to me, it's not the talking (believe me, everybody seems to want to talk all of the time!), it's the listening that is far more important (in my case it's the lip reading).

I find in most gatherings that by far, talking comprises by far the bulk of the communications, while listening is a very minor part of it. It's kind of like 'me me me me me ME me me me ME me me etc.' mentality and one does get pretty tired of it.

[Moostache]

26. My sister and I no longer speak either...

She is married to a real douchebag Kavanaugh-esque trust fund baby and the right wing nonsense that douchebag spouts is too much...as long as my sister stayed neutral I avoided talking about it and maintained a social relationship with them...once she started yelling about having to watch MSNBC and CNN at my parents' home instead of Fox, that was the last straw for me.

She is always welcome back to sanity, but her decision is made and I won't be meeting in any middle on this...it is either family or Trump supporter and I don't have the power to make that decision for her, only to enforce the consequences of it.

[Bettie]

27. Both of my brothers fall into that category

They figure that the Circus Peanut was selected by god and thus is perfect.

One of them said that there is no such thing as sexual assault, just women refusing to admit that they "wanted it" because they are ashamed of their sinful nature. Upon digging down into this statement, he said that his preacher says that Eve is the reason there is no sexual assault, because original sin gave men the right to be dominant over women and it is for the women, you know, to help them get past their sinful nature.

This man has two daughters.

I've unfriended them both on Facebook and will never speak to either of them again. I'm done with this crap.

[lunasun]

154. OMG that is one scary dad . Stay away

his preacher !

[KY_EnviroGuy]

28. I've came to believe we can change people only by example....

and by sharing what is working emotionally for us, not by instructing others on what they should do.

Republicans have been building this machinery of divide and conquer for decades and they ain't done yet. They and their plutocrats want an America that is filled with individualistic, isolated, greedy and fearful people. I other words, citizens with personalities just like the plutocrats but dirt poor.

We on the left have the right way on our side and we have a city of love and brotherhood and community. Their city is one filled with fear and hate.

Goodheart, I hope that by good example you are a shining light in the darkness to your brother and that he slowly comes back to reality and the peaceful side of human life.

.. .........

[D00ver]

30. No brother

I did the same over the children being jailed. It’s embarassing and I don’t need to socialize with that

[elmac]

31. In haven't spoken to my brother in years, fox fake news addict and racist

luckily my sister and her husband are progressives so I do have a few family members, very few, that I associate with.

[Joe Nation]

34. You can't pick your family.

Many of my 9 brothers and sisters are blue collar Republican voters. You know why I am not? I was the only one that went to college. Trump loves the poorly educated and they love him. Makes sense.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

35. Good for you... had the same issue with my Bushiphile brother after the 2000 election disaster.

But, we eventually did reconcile... maybe in time you'll do the same. But, don't feel bad... he's the one with issues, obviously.

[violetpastille]

36. Every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

First a big hug. (No hug emoji?)

i am estranged from my parents and have been for years. My mother is a racist and my father has Bannon-like fascistic beliefs.

These attitudes don't have a hard stop when it comes to me. They think that I'm "less than" they are as well. Political differences being one reason.

Abusive people have abusive politics, ime.

They have found another family to inhabit and love so they don't have to face the mess. They "adopted" one of my cousins.
I had to go through all the stages of grief, and I won't do it again. i had to bury them, emotionally. It is truly over.


Something to consider:
If your brother treats you halfway decently, there is hope.
If he treats you like shit because he thinks you are "inferior", cut bait.

[LuckyCharms]

39. This one here....

[LuckyCharms]

37. It has been 7 years since I've spoken to my siblings.

It had nothing to do with Trump, even though one of them is a Trump supporter.

I was wronged by them in the care giving process during my mother's prolonged dying process. They ignored her, I didn't.

They know what they did, they know it was wrong. But they won't apologize. They are the type of people that literally cannot say "I'm sorry". One of them puts up a charade with her friends and pretends that we are still in close contact. The other slimes me with untruths behind my back, that I won't bother to rightfully refute.

The estrangement changed my life, but I don't regret it. So I am writing here to let you know that I understand, and I'm sorry. It's a slap in the face when you realize that you never had what you thought you did. The act of taking a firm stand, however, kind of negates the emotional turmoil that comes with all of this. You will become a stronger, changed person. You know yourself better than anyone. Do what your heart tells you to do.

I'm just relating my experience here. Don't listen to the people that may come out of the woodwork telling you that you need to work it out. Do what your heart tells you, because you are the only one who knows.

[lark]

38. So sorry for your family tragedy, having a total ass as a brother.

I feel for you, having that kind of hate of women and total unreasonableness in the family would be so tough to deal with. My dad & mom & I fought tooth and nail over GW & the Iraq war of choice and I'm sure it would be far worse now.

[FromTheAshes]

40. Sometimes family is truly toxic. That is all. nt

[octoberlib]

41. Sometimes a relationship becomes so toxic that for your own health you need to walk away.

The only way I can still keep in contact with my stepbrother is that we've both agreed to never talk about politics otherwise I'd be in the same boat. The Trump supporters I've met refuse to listen to reason and it's useless to try to change their minds. If anybody needs to be a better person , he does, not you.

[HAB911]

42. Support for you!

I've lost at least 6 friends and all of my cousins, deplorables one and all

[riverbendviewgal]

44. You are not the only one

I already did this with my Trump loving brother.

[djacq]

45. Don't Blame You; Sister in Law Trump Supporter

Still a Trump Supporter.
African American.
Did not vote in 2016 election.
Single parent of an African American child.
Unemployed.
High School level education.
Finds Kavanaugh a lier.
Still a Trump Supporter.

[PearliePoo2]

48. Same with me and my older brother. We no longer speak.

Last edited Wed Oct 3, 2018, 11:30 AM - Edit history (1)

He is now in the cult of trump, fox and limbaugh.

I don't even recognize him anymore.

[Loge23]

49. Lines are being drawn

We were out last night with a couple we often dine with.
My wife and my friends' spouse got into it - friendship seems irreparably harmed now.
As much as I abhor the opinions and position of his spouse, I am truly upset at losing the relationship (interestingly, the male of the couple is anti-Trump).
We're seeing the fault lines widen in this country now - families, friends, colleagues - everyone is taking sides. The earthquake is unavoidable. This will not end well.

[sagesnow]

51. I refuse to be withing 1 mile of my brother.

He's an extremely violent, loud, tRump Humping lover. Family reunions are out of the question.

[Heartstrings]

53. Haven't spoken to my brother, my only sibling

since last January.....I just can't.

He's a Fox News addict. Sits in his recliner, loaded gun and Jack Daniels beverage next to him every single night.

I just can't.....

[The Liberal Lion]

54. I'm lucky, I have no direct blood family members who gave their support to that orange asshole

but I do have people who I once called friends who I cut off immediately. As far as I'm concerned if you voted for trump you are a moron. If you support him still you are my enemy. No exceptions.

[whathehell]

55. Good for you... Sounds like the right thing to do. Zn/t

[louis c]

56. I, long ago, even before Trump, decided to not associate with racists, mysogonists and morons

and it has made my life much more pleasant.

[catbyte]

57. Welcome to the sad club of folks who have had families & friendships torn apart by that

vicious orange nightmare. It is a sucky club to be in. I lost a friend I've known since 7th grade over it. And, yes, it does deserve its own thread. It's a very real, very important, very toxic side effect of what that thing currently infesting the White House has done and continues to do to this country. I'm sorry it happened to you, too.

[backscatter712]

58. Seems to be down to that.

This is yet another one of my unpopular opinions, but I'm now at the point where I am completely incapable of having basic respect for Trump supporters.

It'd be different if it was somebody like John McCain that was president. Sure we'd all be ranting and raving right here on this board about McCain, but at the same time, with McCain, I can see that lots of people could have a genuine disagreement on political philosophy without losing respect for each other.

Trump's a completely different animal. One that doesn't function by ideology, but by malice.

What's the first thing that happened when Christine Ford talked about what happened between her and Kavanaugh? Oh yeah, all the vicious attacking, slut-shaming, and general savagery that happens when a victim confronts an attacker.

Which is par for the course for the candidate chosen by the sexual-assaulter in chief. Bragged about grabbing women by the you-know-what. Attacked a Gold Star family on the campaign trail. Millions of people saw that vile crap, then checked the box for him anyway. I can't respect that.

I cannot respect Trump supporters. Not. One. If you like Trump, I don't like you. Simple as that.

Trump is a psychopathic piece of subhuman shit, and if you support him, you're a piece of shit too.

I don't want to hear "you should walk in their shoes first." I understand Trump supporters just fucking fine. That's not economic anxiety that brings them to Trump's Nuremberg rallies. That's bigotry. And maliciousness. That's a third of the country saying "I want to be an asshole to people and suffer no consequences!"

The only appropriate response to that is "Try it and we'll rip your faces off!"

Yes, I realize I called a third of America's population pieces of shit, but I suppose that's what it has come down to.

[The Wizard]

59. I have cut off all Trumpinistas

Life is too short to suffer fools.

[pazzyanne]

60. My sister and I parted company about a year ago.

Her worship of the orange one was detestable, and then she started crying about how I wouldn't say anything nice about her president. Next came the set ups with her bad mouthing me to mutual friends and family. After spending 45 minutes on the phone one day trying to calm her hysterical outburst concerning my youngest brother and listening to her set me up as the "bad guy". The things she was yelling into the phone had nothing to do with what I was saying. Her husband got on the phone and read my pedigree and called me names. I hung up the phone, blocked her on facebook, and blocked her number on my phones. Have not had contact with her since. She is freaking crazy.

[jb5150]

61. Me and my twin brother have been estranged

since the election of Obama. We talk maybe twice a year, and it's always "hey how's the weather", how's the family", .. "you take it easy, bye".

Sad perhaps, but I will not suffer homophobic, misogynistic, bigoted, self-righteous christian assholes anymore .. not even in my own family.

[Upthevibe]

65. I'm sorry that happened but you need to do what's

right for you. I'm so fortunate that my sister is very progressive. We speak sometimes daily about everything that's going on. Hopefully you have other people in your life who share your beliefs and are supportive...

[iluvtennis]

67. My brother is a Trumpian and I already know his misogynistic nature for strong professional women,

so I will not bring up Dr Ford with him. Last Thanksgiving we got into a big shouting match over Trump. Since then, I vowed to just never discuss politics with him to try to keep the family peace.

[mountain grammy]

68. For the most part, we've cut ties with my brother in law and family

we listened to their Obama hate all of 2012 while we traveled to Texas twice a month to care for my father in law.. We nursed him for the last 9 months of his life, a gift he didn't really deserve being a hateful and abusive father, but we did it with kindness and are better for it. That said, we have no desire to spend time with the holy roller trumpers. Saw them once in 2013 .. enough of their bullshit. My husband calls his brother on his birthday.

[ebbie15644]

70. I haven't been talking to my sister since Trump began running and she was "rabid" with me

[The Polack MSgt]

72. No Trumpsters is the only sane policy

Doesn't really matter who they are.
They are hate and your only options to deal with hate are:
To cut them off and keep them away from you.
Ignore their hate silently and enable them.
Or hate them back and actively fight them.

The only sane option is to cut them away from your life.

The last option is poisonous and leads you to become like them.

And silently making allowances for them is supporting their positions.

All this is sad, but they pushed the country into this situation and have no right to be surprised that others are unwilling to kiss their asses.

I came to the same point last year:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029822240

[mahina]

73. A story of two uncles and some hope

First, I’m so sorry. I’m sure you did the right thing for you.

I had two uncles, one a real uncle and one a man who grew up with my Dad and whom I have loved since I was able to walk. I had lost both to the loony right. Cut off ties with uncle 2 when he wouldn’t stop emailing me disgusting g mean shit about Hillary. I told him I don’t want to read that and asked him to stop sending but he wouldn’t. Finally closed the door.

I learned that he was seriously ill recently so I reached out to him, now 10 years later, through his son who s my age and also a winger on FB. Found out he has since unfriended me. Ok. It’s pau. (Finished).

My real uncle came back to reason in 2016. We just didn’t talk politics since we had a big disagreement in the lead up to the Iraq war. (How can I think I know more than the President, etc) I’m so glad my real uncle has returned to reason.

Still love both of them. Good luck.

[Hortensis]

75. THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT IRREVERSIBLE!

Research has discovered that, generally speaking, people (us!) choose their group they identify with, the group chooses their leader, and the members of the group adopt the positions of the leader.

That last is horrifying and goes against all our notions of who and what we are politically. But it's real.

Conservatives, influenced by both their own negative responses to an increasingly diverse world of galloping change, but also subjected to very deliberate insidious influences, have been electing increasingly poor, and now even depraved leaders. Reagan, Bush I, Bush II, Trump.

Most now support Trump and thus support his positions, even become "believers," including a large number of those who've left the Republican Party. They still need a leader, and he's it.

But this same mindlessly dutiful adoption of the leader's views and positions would happen if they somehow elected better people. Those better leaders would lead their followers to be better people.

Something for families to keep in mind. Keep the door open for the future.

[Ellen Forradalom]

114. Perhaps

But that change won't come from a lower-status person.

In relation to my brother, I'm younger and female, therefore lower status. So of course I've been mansplained to for over 50 years.

[Hortensis]

123. :) No, and guessing he won't change that way.

He would improve politically with more balanced, moral leaders guiding him, though.

Hopefully some day that will happen, and families will be able to mend. Fortunately, these days it's almost impossible to lose track of people entirely, which once happened often with estranged relatives and friends.

[Ellen Forradalom]

163. That view is optimistic

I see the same people who rhapsodized over Obama--who was a wonderful president, but not a god--call Hillary a warmonger and referred to her as "that woman." All this tells me is that the consistent feature in my leftist family and friends' politics is male supremacy. I hold out no hope for them either.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

77. I Lost A Very Good Friend Who I Once Respected

When we first met, he pontificated on how he was a big Libertarian and was all about freedom. Then he joined the Trump Cult, completely changed his views on just about everything in order to match up with his cult hero, and still supports him to this day. This was a person who I once respected and considered pretty intelligent. But one day he came to me and said he liked Trump, wasn't sure why, but probably because he liked it and thought it was funny when Trump was rude to the other candidates in the Republican debates. Now I can't even have a conversation with him anymore. To him, the mountain of evidence that Trump is incompetent and a criminal is nothing more than proof of the "Deep State" trying to bring down a good man because they're afraid of him "shaking things up."

What's really upsetting about it is that I'm actually saddened that I lost a friend over Trump Cultism, whereas he doesn't really seem to care.

[titanicdave]

80. .....So Sorry.....

........I am so sorry for your situation......I only have one brother and no sisters.......I live in a very Blue State on the West (Left) Coast......my one and only brother lives in a very Red State.......we agree completely that Blue is the ONLY way to go.....sometimes, he is certain that he is the only Blue Voter in a very Red State......

.......I truly hope that you can reconcile with your brother and even more than that, I hope your brother wakes up and realizes that Blue is the ONLY way to go so your reconciliation will be that much easier........

......Good Luck to you.......

[hatrack]

84. You did what you had to do . . .

Don't need the toxicity, and won't go along with humoring/enabling the venom?

Tired of the bullshit and anger, and family member just won't/can't shut up about it?

Do as I did - walk away.

[BlueJac]

85. I used to have a friend like that...

Civil War started by Trump

[BobTheSubgenius]

87. Actually, it kinda DOES need its own thread.

I'd be dollars to doughnuts that there are a pretty large numbers of families in a similar boat.

My brother-in-law is a Drumpf supporter, and no one can believe it. Thankfully, he never talks about it, but it's weird because he is SUCH a nice person. Masters in Environmental Engineering, committed to making the planet better, for one thing.

The day I met him was at a T'giving family (theirs) gathering, and he appeared to be extremely interested in making sure I felt included and welcomed. If I went into a different room of the gathering, he almost always came with. It wasn't intrusive or weird, but seemed genuinely solicitous. In fact, I REALLY liked him for it, although I was completely fine with or without.

So...there is a real spectrum, obviously. He would NEVER say that in front of his family, and I very much doubt he'd ever say it. No one can figure out what the attraction is for him.

[Nitram]

89. Some things run deeper than family.

[Goodheart]

93. That's what I've come to know.

[47of74]

90. I haven't reached that point in my family yet.

There are some ex-friends I've cut off because of their love for that orange fuck.

Fortunately my family either hates that orange fuck as much as I do or if they do like him have the good sense not to get all Branch Trumpvidian about it in my presence.

[Nitram]

94. If family members can respect boundaries and just avoid the topics they know will cause each other

pain, then they can remain close. I used to think families should be able to discuss these things rationally, and dispassionately, but that is not really possible when the gulf is too wide.

[lillypaddle]

96. My sister and I still speak - but barely.

We can NOT bring up politics for this uneasy truce to work. It's sad.

[HelenWheels]

98. Division in my family also

My youngest daughter and her husband are teabaggers. My son and other daughter will have nothing to do with them. I share a home with my leftist daughter and as I no longer drive seldom get to see my youngest daughter. The worst thing is my youngest daughter has 5 kids and the youngest 4 still live at home and I seldom see the kids.. Her oldest daughter has broken away from her parents and is leading a successful life with her husband and son.

It is just a big mess and has gotten worse with tRump as president.

[Goodheart]

100. I tell myself that this is what my BROTHER chose.

People like him didn't vote for Republican ideology, as there were plenty other candidates who would governed somewhat civilly. The ideology wasn't enough, it had to be accompanied by MALICE. This division was intentional, and our side didn't start it.

I can no more listen to him call Dr. Ford a "lying bitch" than I could hear him calling me the same. I won't tolerate it.

[LisaM]

99. Oh, this needs its own thread. It needs its whole national discussion.

For years, I've been convinced that many worldwide problems are due to the fact the World War I never ended, but now, looking at my own country, I've concluded that the Civil War never ended. Oh, I knew there was always a solid base of people dedicated to keeping it going, but I never realized how much it was still going on.

[Duppers]

101. I'm so sorry. Had my brother said that

I'd certainly do the same. For sure.

[0rganism]

106. now that's a "presidential alert" alright

our nation is so broken right now

[Ellen Forradalom]

109. I no longer talk to my brother

on the far left, who called Hillary Clinton a warmonger and contrasted her with a "real woman," Jill Stein.

Just like your brother on the right, he sees fit to pass judgement on who is and is not a real, credible, female human being. Fuck misogyny, left, right and center.

[sandensea]

111. I'm sorry to hear that.

He'll come around when you least expect it. You'll see.

[LittleGirl]

115. The re-election of President Obama in 2012

sent my brother over the edge and he didn't speak to my (now 86 yr old) Mother for 4 yrs. Pissed off me and my other brother so much we cut him off. He finally started to contact Mother a few months before the 2016 election. Never told her why but we all think it was political. My brother says that he will beat the shit out of my other brother if he ever sees him again so I was worried last week. My oldest brother died and they had a "celebration of life" for him in my home town (I live in Europe and couldn't attend) and I called my brother and asked him if he was going to beat up my other brother. He said no, it's Mom's birthday so he'll live another day. They had the celebration on my Mother's 86th birthday.

My sister and I have spoken twice in 6 years and the last time I saw her was right before the 2016 election and the first words out of her mouth were "How do you like Obama now?" Well, F* that, I said, no problems. She went on a 5 min rant against him and I said, you know what? Not the time or the place. (I was watching my favorite band play and didn't want to listen to her Rush Limbaugh, Fox Spews point of view anymore). I was civil and we parted ways and I haven't seen her or spoken to her since.

This is my life. I live in Europe with my very liberal spouse and the only family members I speak with are my brother and his daughter and my Mother. The rest of my siblings are not what I want in my life and I don't miss them. I can't miss them. They are horrible racist people and I don't want to have those toxic people in my life. I'm too old for that shit.

You do what you have to do and maybe some day, your brother will come around. If he doesn't, maybe it's for the best.
Do you want that toxic person in your life?

[trueblue2007]

117. sorry for your loss

[Marcuse]

118. Your family is not alone. Perhaps the most famous example is Rep. Gosar.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/22/us/politics/paul-gosar-arizona-family-siblings.html

https://www.adweek.com/creativity/in-the-years-most-brutal-campaign-ad-6-siblings-tell-you-not-to-vote-for-their-brother/

[Scruffy1]

120. It has to be done.

Listening to these fact free assholes just enables them. I foundit best to completely ignore everything they say. They hate that. They want to piss you off and argue, but you can't reason with them, so whats the point? If enough people ignore them maybe they might come to their senses. Alternate facts are like fottball. They both give idiots something to talk about.

[FakeNoose]

124. I'm pretty sure the same thing happened in the Trump famly

His kids still talk to him, but siblings, nieces, nephews, ex-wives, former in-laws, pretty much anybody else have all disowned him. It's happening all over.

[Sqee]

126. I have literally ended dozens of long time friendships over Trump

One entire side of my family are also now dead to me.

[CountAllVotes]

128. I do not blame you one bit

I'm on that same page with a lot of people, some relatives some not.

My what a disgusting batch of pigs.

Anyone that wishes you were dead and gone deserves to be on a list of just FUCK OFF. They earned it.

There is no coming back from something like that. Nope.

[Goodheart]

133. How do you fight this kind of nastiness?

An actual exchange:

Deplorable: "Her story doesn't add up."

Me: "You know what adds up? The number of women who have credibly accused him of being a victim of or witnessing his sexual assaults/rapes."

Deplorable: "Are all 7 women Democrats? I would guess YES. Why would he just rape Democrats? I guess he was interviewing the women he wanted to rape. I guess 35 years or so ago he knew he was going to be a Republican."

[Honeycombe8]

134. Might wanna stay away from him at least for a while, lest things are said...

that are even worse.

[jcsg]

136. that's beyond the pale

too bad, sorry to hear it.

[busterbrown]

137. Welp... Doubt if it will ever heal... Unfortunately!

Unless your brother finally gets it.. Doubt he will.. I'm in same situation...

and it's believe it or not a relief not to hear from him.

[CountAllVotes]

139. If you only hear from them when they want something well ...

You know where it is at already.

I have given up.

I have said person on email ----> trash. That way I don't have to read the sh*t.

[busterbrown]

140. really it's not worth the anger and pain..n/t

[CountAllVotes]

152. Right

The energy spent wasted on these types is just that, a waste.

You could be doing something else with your time, anything at all will do!

This nightmare is just that, a nightmare that isn't going to go away any time soon.

Why waste what time we may have left on such negative garbage? It isn't.

Hang-in there. I hope you find solace in knowing that you are not alone!

[hay rick]

138. People used to say "blood is thicker than water..."

With great sorrow I say "common decency is thicker than blood."

[Raine]

142. This is very sad

I could never let a family member go but we've always been really close, all families are different.

[Prof.Higgins]

145. Thank you. So many of us have this dilemma with diabolical words from family members.

My brother, a retired engineer from a huge corporation, watches FoxNews assiduously in order to keep his rightwing Republican hate-filled delusions stoked up.

I gave him a final warning when, in public, he called Pres. Obama a piece of s***. Since then he’s adhered to our agreement not to mention politics in any context.

I would certainly make the same decision as “Goodheart” has been forced to make if he reneged and shovelled any Rightwing manure whether it be sexism, racism or just the usual Republican Party/FoxNews propaganda lies. Thank you again, Goodheart, for sharing this with us DU progressives.

[Ilsa]

149. Trump should be burning in hell for his lies. (Tots & pears) nt

[lunasun]

153. I have separated from some family but no trumpers . Anytime it's uncomfortable to the point

of making you feel constantly miserable or repulsed in some way it's not worth it for family sake. I don't have any trump deplorables in my family but other issues have caused separation . Only a few, I still have other family and friends but even if I didn't I would have dumped the ones that I did and no regrets
Also thank you for taking a stand !

[Niagara]

155. I'm sorry

Welcome to DU.

You have the right to avoid toxic deplorables, even if it is your own brother.

There are many of us here that have cut ties with people like that. Not only is it deplorable behavior, it's also toxic. Toxic to the point where one dreads being around them. These days, I have zero tolerance for it.

[CousinIT]

160. I have a brother like that.

Still speaking to him - barely. He had voted dem until the nominee was a woman. Then he said he was "not going to vote for no feminism!"

He's an MRA, and now watches Fox.

I keep convos to a bare minimum- family issues. I didn't speak to him for MONTHS (could have been over a year) after Russia, racists and sexists like my brother forced Trump on us.

He's a nasty person politically. I mostly avoid him as much as possible. God forbid I'd ever have to rely on him for anything.

My sister is an idiot, also Republican. But at least she's kind to family. But she has strange political beliefs - hates politics though. Just goes by what my BiL tells her and he's a typical alt-right Fox Cultist.

My whole family except 2 other Dems are Trump Cult members.

[maryellen99]

161. My husband's extended family except for a couple are trump worshippers nt

I had to unfriend 2 of my husband’s cousins over the fact that they think the kids being separated from their parents is a-ok plus I’m 99% sure they all support Kavanaugh and think Ford is a lying slut. Funny thing is they are now posting on FB the meme “Just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean I hate you” which I think is BS and don’t believe it one bit.