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Thu Oct 4, 2018, 02:14 PM

I've been trying to frame the narrative around assault.

Many people, especially men, cannot relate. Now I’ve tried Sept. 11th. Here, in the NJ, NY, PA tri-state area, this has had an impact. I’ve learned that the more you move away from this area, the less people were impacted directly and emotionally, so I’m not sure if this will universally work. Here’s what I’ve been saying:
“She can’t remember how she got home. Her friend doesn’t remember.”
“Do you remember Sept. 11th?”
“Of course. Every last detail. Like it was yesterday.”
“What did you do that Sept 10th?”
“I have no idea.”
“Right. Because that was a day like every other day. That was the party to her friend Leland.”
“What did you have for breakfast on the 11th?”
“I don’t know. It didn’t seem important.”
“That’s was Dr. Ford getting to the party. Since you forget the time surrounding the attacks on Sept 11th, should I assume that you’re making it up and it didn’t happen?”
I’ve tried it on Twitter. Crickets so far. In person, people open their mouths to argue, leave them open long enough to catch flies, and either walk away or mutter something. Nobody continues. There is no longer a debate.

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Reply I've been trying to frame the narrative around assault. (Original post)
Tucker08087 Oct 2018 OP
mr_lebowski Oct 2018 #1
Tucker08087 Oct 2018 #2

Response to Tucker08087 (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2018, 05:39 PM

1. I wish you luck ... the problem is in the details like 'where it happened' ...

And not being able to nail down the date, not 'what you had for breakfast that day'.

Everyone remembers where they were when 9/11 started going down, and obviously they know the date.

It may be the case that there's legit science about how sometimes people block out details of very painful memories ... but ... most people ... either aren't aware of that, or don't really believe it, or have personal evidence to the contrary, or can't see how an experience of an adolescent girl having a similar aged-boy ripping at their clothing, then covering their mouth, but then getting 'tackled off' of them ... without anything 'worse' occurring ... at which point they walked away ... constitutes an incident of such disabling severity ... that they've then suffered a blackout on nearly all the details surrounding the incident.

The bottom-line when it comes to this argument is that most people actually remember the most traumatic things that ever happened to them ... with UNUSUAL clarity, rather than the opposite. And that's why her lack of being able to fill in many details ... is felt to be 'undermining' by a lot of Americans.

Personally I believe her, because I don't claim to know how impactful or traumatic any particular event might be to any given individual, and I found her testimony very heartful and credible anyway, plus she has no reason to lie either.

But there's a LOT of people in this country that will look upon the inability to fill in details as a 'sign' ... that what happened to Doctor Ford was more like September 10, 2001 ... than September 11, 2001. To use your analogy, as it were.

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 4, 2018, 06:13 PM

2. I was viscously assaulted on campus in college.

I’ve realized that I don’t know how I got to and from the hospital. I know it was the end of a semester, because I went home on break and didn’t want to go back. That means that I sat for exams with a blackened, bloodied face and body. I don’t remember that. I don’t remember anything before what happened that day. It was a normal day. I remember the event with immense clarity. I was able to pick the assailant out of some book the police had. I do remember that moment. I started shaking and vomited. There was a trial. I remember little of that. I think my brain was trying to hold me together. He was a serial rapist. Got 18 months for 5 of us, about 3 months for each of us. Hardly worth the fight. He got out and raped a poor 15 year old within the week. Served 5 years for that. He was about 30 and she was a minor.
Asking things like “how did you get there” is very similar to “what did you have for breakfast.” Breakfast was an hour or two before the attack on Sept. 11th. Who would remember that? It’s unrelated. How she got there are hour or so is just as unrelated. At that time, it was just like any other day. She never expected to have to remember details. In fact, she tried to forget all of it.

I DO know first-hand how memories of trauma work. People who don’t know need it framed for them. Going to that party was Sept. 10th for her. The assault was seeing the planes crashing into the towers. If people can’t remember what they had for breakfast before they knew it would be a day they “would never forget,” how can they then insist she know how she arrived before HER trauma, a much more personal trauma, took place. Not remembering afterward, I’m assuming is from shock, just as I know the university sent me to the hospital, but I don’t remember getting there. And I know I went to work (on campus) after dinner, but I don’t know what I ate. And sadly, I didn’t keep detailed calendars as evidence.

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