A The Civil War... and modern day parallels

[nadinbrzezinski]

Yesterday I was talking to a fellow historian. His specialty is the civil war, no, not the orders of battle or who led what army in what battle... we leave that to the military historian. No, no, the social and economic conditions that led to it.

First, like me, he sees the dam parallels and the trends are NOT good.

Second, like the period preceding the Civil War the country is getting southern style politics as they try to impose their values on the rest of the country.

Of course the election came up and the POSSIBILITY that neither candidate will get the 270 electoral votes. 1876 is the last time that happened...

We are, as I have said it before, in the middle of a constitutional crisis.

Other subjects came up like the 2nd amendment (I will leave it at that), and our penchant from the earliest of days to use cheap labor.

It was both a gratifying and terrifying conversation.

[nc4bo]

1. What makes '12 different than '08?

Honestly, I thought '08 would have been THE catalyst.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. What led to Fort Sumter?

We are at the point that the radical right, especially if they get punched in the elections, that the only way they see they can impose their will be the ammo box.

Realize, a civil war will be short and sharp... nothing like the blue and the gray... unless we see the rise of multiple guerrilla cells all over.

Now knowing this does not mean I am looking forwards to that... in any way, shape or form. But after 2008 the militia movement got an injection on steroids and have grown by leaps and bounds.

[rrneck]

3. Economic disparity makes things look more like

Gilded Age, pre depression United States or perhaps early 20th century Russia.

The south "imposing their values" is just spin. Political affiliation is more closely related to population density than regional identification.

We are in the middle of a resource depletion crisis which is contributing to an economic crisis.

[FarCenter]

4. Prior to the Civil War, it was the North that was attempting to impose its values on the South

Slavery had been legal, if not very common, in many of the northern states in the early 1800s.

The attitudes towards slavery changed first in the northern states because of the abolitionist movement. Then the northern states attempted to prevent the establishment of slavery in the new states in the west, even when those states were populated by settlers from the south.

So the imposition of values came from the north. The values in the south had not changed much at all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. The South was attempting to expand slavery

That is what the whole Kansas Little War was about.

Of course the Grand Compromise was the seed for the war in some ways, but.

[SlimJimmy]

7. Right on point and factually correct.

[zappaman]

6. So, you are predicting a civil war.

I say Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuullshiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.
Wanna bet?
I don't care how "trained" you are as a historian. To say there will be a civil war if Romney loses is jut irresponsible and more of your doom and gloom fearmongering.
And Obama will win the electoral...wanna bet?

Here's my prediction....like all of your predictions, this will not happen.