"Dear white women: Black women can't save you"

[EffieBlack]

Link to tweet

[greymattermom]

1. Except, if a black woman is on your ballot

(like mine), you can vote for her.

[populistdriven]

232. I love how this is the very first reply :-)

Thanks

[oberliner]

2. "Do not EVEN TRY to tell me...you don't know any white women who are ok with Kavanaugh..."

That's a straight up lie.

Link to tweet

[Tree-Hugger]

19. I know plenty

And I know plenty who have daughters of their own. Religion and internalized misogyny is a helluva drug.

[Texin]

52. As do I.

Religion institutionalizes misogyny. And talk radio and Fuck's Spews reinforce it.

[Politicub]

72. There are several in my family

They would rather stick it to the libs than admit that Kavanaugh is going to make life worse for them and their daughters.

[Snackshack]

230. You hit the nail on the head.

“Owning the libs” is what is the main driving force behind trumps base. They could care less that future SC decisions (when Roe gets over turned or the ACA gets completely shot down) are going to affect them as well. They could care less if trump is violating the emoluments clause or if kushner is leaking info or if trump really is working with Russia. They simply don’t care. The “libs are being owned” and that is literally all they care about. That is why it is pointless to try and talk to them. They will never not support trump, it is not that they don’t realize or understand just how corrupt trump is they understand completely and do not give a crap.

[zentrum]

77. 53% of white

...women did not vote for Trump.

The statistic refers to the white women who voted. 53% of white women who voted, voted for Trump.

The problem, apart from this, is the white women who did not vote, who stayed home.

We need to figure out how to address the fact that white women are not voting.

Partly we need that 50 state, ground game strategy that Dean suggested but which was squelched by the DNC back in 2008. would have made a huge difference in 2016.

[CentralMass]

107. A majority of white women have voted for the Republican presidential nominee in all but two election

Note: I'm just posting the article for the discussion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/12/22/whats-wrong-with-white-women-voters-heres-the-problem-with-that-question/
"
It also ignores the fact that a majority of white women have voted for the Republican presidential nominee in all but two elections since 1952."

"Among women overall, 54 percent identified as Democrats or lean Democratic and 38 percent said they were or lean Republican, according to the Pew Research Center’s party identification report. Among white women, however, voter identification was split almost evenly — 47 percent Republican and 46 percent Democrat. Still the percentage of white women who identify as Republicans is far lower than white men, 61 percent of whom say they are or lean Republican.

Women, just like men, tend to vote based on their party affiliation and ideology, and Dittmar said it’s wrong to assume these women don’t know what they’re doing. For some women, free markets, smaller government and curbing abortion “is pro-women. They see that as particularly helpful to women and families, so it doesn’t seem to stand in contrast to voting for somebody from that party.”

[zentrum]

132. I'm still wondering

...if even the reference you cite about the majority of white women voting Repug for 60 years---is referring to ALL white women who exist in America or if it refers to ONLY the women who vote, which is a sub-set.

It is a well known fact that the Repugs, gun-toters, anti-choice, pro-school-prayer-type voters do turn out at much higher levels than we do.

So I'm back to why? Why are we not able to galvanize the vote for Democrats?

Research also shows that the country is more progressive than the Congress when asked about specific policies. This means there's a huge missing piece in the analysis our side is applying.

[CentralMass]

142. The article was about women who vote.

[zentrum]

155. I get that.

53% refers to a subset of white women. Only those who vote.

To make this real simple: If there are 100 white women altogether , but only ten bother to vote and 53% of those 10 vote for evil---The question still remains why aren't MORE or all the white women voting?

This is something we must have break through with. Must turn out the majority of women. We're not reaching the majority of women, period. And a subset is ruining the country.

[appalachiablue]

168. Huge factor, many women in business & the private sector corporate world.

It relates to the rise in Independent or non party affiliated voters, and the growing popularity of libertarian ideology especially in the last 20 years.

>For some women, free markets, smaller government and curbing abortion “is pro-women. They see that as particularly helpful to women and families, so it doesn’t seem to stand in contrast to voting for somebody from that party.”

[Caliman73]

127. Irrelevant

Of the White women that voted, more than half saw Trump and what he said, or didn't, have heard about Trump's views on women, racial issues, etc... or didn't bother looking; or didn't care.

THEY VOTED FOR HIM over a woman who has been performing at the highest levels of public service for DECADES.

That is the point.

If 53% or more of White Women had voted for Hillary Clinton, we would not be having this discussion at all.

[zentrum]

145. It's not irrelevant.

The whole non-voting field of white women needs to be reached and figured out .

Why are we not getting turnout?


If 53% of ALL WHITE WOMEN would turn out to vote---we might have won.

We need to figure out why so many stayed home. If we had gotten our women to the polls, we'd have won.

[JHan]

183. This has been tried before, and who was the last Democratic President to get the white vote?

The last Democratic President to get the white vote in some kinda convincing way was Bill Clinton, who shocked Republicans by picking up states they thought they'd own forever in the post-civil rights era. Now *some* progressives shit on Bill Clinton and ignore the challenges he faced with a disgrace like Newt Gingrich, whose determination to completely destroy the social safety net meant shitty legislation on the resolute desk time and time again leaving line-item vetoes the only weapon on hand for a President who didn't control Congress.

but I digress.

There has always been some effort to persuade poor white people that they have more in common with poor black people and poor immigrants than tribalist, corporatist, racist whites. This effort spans over 100 years. Our immigration battles are not new, our race battles are not a modern invention. Trump's base - often wrongly described as working class - is mainly made up of rich and middle class white people, and non-college educated white people yet Trump is sometimes described as being the candidate who put his finger on the pulse of "The People"

And how do you talk to white people alone without race entering it ? Do you just ignore Black Lives Matter for a minute? Immigration? do you ignore your base, hoping they don't notice? How do you convince many white people out there that being white is less important than their working-class status?

[BumRushDaShow]

190. Census data

I copy/pasted the line from the Census spreadsheet and include the data vertically (vs the horizontal line in the spreadsheet).

Table 2. Reported Voting and Registration, by Race, Hispanic Origin, Sex, and Age, for the United States: November 2016
(In thousands)

White alone

FEMALE

Total 18 years and over
98,290 - Total Population
91,421 - Total Citizen Population
66,866 - Reported registered (Number)
73.1 - Reported registered (Percent)
11,831 - Reported not registered (Number)
12.9 - Reported not registered (Percent)
12,725 - No response to registration (Number)
13.9 - No response to registration (Percent)
59,025 - Reported voted (Number)
64.6 - Reported voted (Percent)
20,088 - Reported did not vote (Number)
22.0 - Reported did not vote (Percent)
12,309 - No response to voting (Number)
13.5 - No response to voting (Percent)
68.0 - Total Population Reported Registered (Percent)
60.1 - Total Population Reported Voted (Percent)

From here: https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/voting-and-registration/p20-580.html (XLS file)

[Caliman73]

236. Or, Trump may have won bigger.

You don't seem to be understanding that White women might just be okay with the status quo, which is why they vote Republican at the second highest rate next to White men or why they don't vote period.

Outreach is necessary and groups are working on it, but voting is a civic responsibility and staying informed about the issues that affect you and which politician and party actually support those policies is the responsibility of each voter.

[zentrum]

239. I do understand what we are dealing with.

We're dealing with white, racist, Trump-voting females.

All the more reason why we need bold, passionate Democrats who can educate and communicate and galvanize the voters who did come out for Obama. The status quo in the way the Democratic leadership does things is over.

As a kid, I remember we had Democratic precincts in all the neighborhoods and people who walked door to door every few months to keep people tied into our policies and efforts. What happened to this? Where is our ground organization? Why don't people understand what Repug policies are doing to them? We have, IMO, only a few really effective communicators.

Many people who voted for Obama last time because of his message of change stayed home. This is a real problem for the party. Some big disconnect has happened. That's what I'm talking about.

[brush]

227. Those 53% are just as misogynistic and racist as their husbands, fathers and brothers.

Last edited Mon Oct 8, 2018, 09:07 AM - Edit history (1)

That's what the US is. We just have to out vote them t vote them out.

[zentrum]

238. Completely agree.

My point is that our own party has to do a lot more to get out the vote---to motivate the people who would defeat these racist insects.

There's something about our messaging and ground game organization that must change ASAP.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

211. Yep. And a small % of white women is a lot of women, so that's a lot of

potential votes. I don't know the numbers of women those percentages translate to, but it must be possible to get enough non-Trump supporters to vote for the Democrats. And that could be very effective at helping to oust the Rs.

[EffieBlack]

92. Hi, Boo - I love it when you're you!

[oberliner]

241. Thank you - I appreciate that

I am very grateful for the kind words and the feeling is mutual.

In particular, I am grateful to you for sharing twitter posts and articles from authors that I had not been aware of previously and have since starting following thanks to your introduction.

I hope you recognize the impact that you have had on me and, clearly, many many other DUers as well.

[enid602]

178. Vote

They vote for whomever their redneck husbands and evangelical pastors tell them.

[populistdriven]

221. I spoke to one this morning, I thought she was a friend and walked away nauseated

I told her she needs to stop watching Fox News all day.

She is not the only one. Hispanics too. It makes me sick.

I simply can't tolerate friends who watch Fox News because they say such stupid shit.

I am literally racist (presume them to be brainwashed) against white women and I am white.

They can't even have a political conversation and stay focused. They literally switch topics in mid sentence, no matter who is speaking, almost like watching Fox News.

[oberliner]

243. It can be very tough - especially with family members

You know they are just regurgitating Fox talking points and there really is no way to even engage in conversation.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

222. Can we distinguish between single white females vs. MARRIED white females. And college-educated

white females.

[EffieBlack]

223. I'm fine with that

But some folks here get really offended if we differentiate between different types of women ...

Or maybe they're fine with it as long as we don't say "white."

[Marrah_Goodman]

229. My birth mother is

Sadly she married a teaparty type from Texas and lives in the south. She and I have agreed to disagree on politics for the sake of civility.

[GWC58]

231. And some of these white women, at least the

married ones, will vote their conscience. Oops, I meant “their HUSBANDS conscience.”

[tblue37]

3. OTOH, black women DID save us from Roy Moore. In fact, a lot of the electoral

saving going on this year depends on black women, and we all owe them a debt of gratitude.

Thank you, black women. Thank you!

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

4. This is EXACTLY

...why healthcare should be back in the center of every conversation from now until the midterms.

It's the #1 issue for Black women, and it gets Black women to the polls.

[SMC22307]

39. Healthcare is an issue for A LOT of women and it does need to be...

the center of every conversation. I skimmed something recently about Kentucky Rs who plan to vote for Amy McGrath because of that very issue. They don't care about kids in cages, but they do care about healthcare.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

113. It's not the same, though...

...for everybody else. The issue galvanizes Black women for some reason. Black women voted 94% for HRC, and health care was the #1 issue. Black women voted 96% for Doug Jones, and he promised them votes for expansion of health care.

Black women have saved the DEM party in the past few elections.

[EffieBlack]

5. Yes, we did. But we're tired of saving their asses

Especially when they not only won't do a thing to save their own asses, but often turn around and kick us in ours and then act likey don't even know us.

[tblue37]

6. I can't say I blame you, but thank goodness black women show up to the fight every

time. I think you all should arrive at the polls wearing Wakanda warrior costumes, since you are the only voter demographic that can be counted on every time to fight for what we all should be fighting for.

[EffieBlack]

13. I'm just tired of having to fight for everyone else but when we need support

we're told to stop whining and - of course - "stop playing identity politics."

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

121. Just a thought:

I was in Georgia one weekend, and I tried to get a hotel reservation in Tifton. I could not because the AKA's (A Black female sorority) was having their national convention in Atlanta. In fact, I could not book a hotel room anywhere between Atlanta and Tifton because they were all booked up.

Mind you, the drive from Tifton to Atlanta is 2.5 hours on a good day.

The AKAs is only one Black female sorority in the United States. Seems to me if they could bring that kinda economy along I75 that they would stop talking about the Democratic party and go on and "become" the Democratic party.

Why not back a candidate? Hire a lobbyist. Tout political agenda from your own base? Chances are, they would be at least 90% in line with the national Democratic party.

[BumRushDaShow]

131. See this-

(from a few years ago)

<...>

Sorority members were among the first black women to enter into state and national politics: Delta Sigma Theta member Shirley Chisholm became the first African American woman elected to Congress in 1968 and first African American to run for president on a major-party ticket in 1972. Sigma Gamma Rho member Gwen Cherry broke the gendered color barrier in the Florida House in 1970. And in 1993, Carol Moseley Braun, another Delta, became the first—and so far the only—black female Senator in history.

Following on these accomplishments, 13 of the 18 black women in Congress today belong to one of the four national black sororities. The two black women running for Senate seats are also sorority members: California Attorney General Kamala Harris of Alpha Kappa Alpha and Representative Donna Edwards of Zeta Phi Beta.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/loretta-lynch-and-the-political-power-of-the-black-sorority/391385/

You see, the only time black sororities make the news if when someone calls 911 on black sorority sisters clearing debris from the sorority's designated strip of highway, rather than actually looking at what the organizations do without all the fanfare. Mainstream media doesn't really care about black people, let alone black women, unless they are beefing up their crime reports for the day or guiltily trying to do some "positive public interest story" about the "inner city" after they got their fill of the daily crime sheet.

Of course the "social justice" focus of most black organizations is marginalized and ridiculed nationally and right here on DU.

http://www.nphchq.org/quantum/social-action-taskforce/

(and I am an AKA)

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

143. You've kinda said what I've said.

I am an Alpha (hey, Soror), but I am disappointed that my Brothers have JUST started making waves on the national level in a political way. Sure, we tout MLK and Thurgood Marshall as Brothers, but why haven't we used our influence in the country to flex politically?


It's high time Black women did that. You all are the base of the party. The AKAs are but one platform that can be used.

[EffieBlack]

159. That's surprising to hear

I do a lot of work within and outside of the party on voter empowerment. The Greek brothers are among our most vigorous partners

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

161. I never said...

...that they were't politically involved. They are. That's precisely why I think we can take it to another level.

[EffieBlack]

167. I hear you, but am a little puzzled t at how this discussion

about what woke white women can do to reach their unwoke sisters has turned into another lecture about what more already kicking ass black women should be doing

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

180. Oh, well...

...like all the threads on here, threads tend to digress.

Because ideas intersect and differ, I'm not sure that that's something that can be controlled. Perhaps, you shouldn't wear yourself so thin by trying to participate in them all. That way you wouldn't have to wonder about the different discussions.

[EffieBlack]

184. I started this thread

So I don't consider it "spreading myself too thin" by participating in the discussion on my own thread.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

186. Yea, I know...

...but this is the 186th one. Just sayin'...

At any rate, the OP is clear 100% correct. As a member of a Black Frat, I want us to do more. I explained that in my conversation with the other poster.

It seems you didn't get a chance to review the chronology of it. I'm thinking that that's why you asked how we got to what you call a "lecture".

[EffieBlack]

187. My question was rhetorical

designed to point out the absurdity of the direction this had gone ... and how typical this kind of deflection is in these conversations.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

188. Ok,...

...my experience with rhetorical questions in these situations has been that they've also contained faux sarcasm - machinations designed to control and condescend. I've found them unnecessary, but you have the right to comment on the course of the direction of a thread you've started, right?

I'm glad being referred to as "absurd" is not the worst thing I've been called in this forum when pointing out the strength of the Black vote.

[EffieBlack]

191. Unsure how you infer referring to the direction a discussion has taken as absurd as YOU being absurd

But whatever ...

[BumRushDaShow]

169. I gave you a link of the joint Panhellenic Council political activities

which includes registering folks to vote, etc.

Because we are still a minority in this country and have so many organizations dealing with a myriad of things, a number of the larger orgs like the Pan Hellenic Council partner with others - notably the NAACP - to carry out local engagement. It's only recently that the NAACP changed its "mission" to include becoming a 501(c4) entity so they can directly engage.

One of the issues however, which is sad, is that because so many of us are under daily siege, that our organizations are often forced to deal with the constant assault upon those in our community who are just trying to live while black without being spotted, targeted, followed, harassed, confronted, beat, arrested, and often killed.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

182. Your last paragraph hit home

I totally agree. Perhaps, that hill we're climbing still needs work. I would eventually like to demand our seat at the table, though. I don't want us to have to ask. Once we get the votes and power, we can.

[BumRushDaShow]

200. We did actually get a "seat at the table"

and not just any table but the biggest baddest table of them all (at least here in the U.S.). And it wasn't just a seat there but it was at the HEAD of it.

And the power of OUR votes (95%) as well as some 43% of the white vote, 67% of the Hispanic vote, and 62% of Asian vote, allowed Barack Obama to be the President. And it happened TWICE (with slightly lower numbers but more than enough).

Problem is, this caused a total zombie head-exploding melt-down. And so like what happened after Reconstruction, when they couldn't take all those elected n*****s sitting up in Congress, the implementation of yet another Jim Crow period is going on right now, and they are foaming at the mouth like rabid dogs, just like they did in the 1920s.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

235. You didn't tell...

...that you'd be on here PREACHING!!!!!

[BumRushDaShow]

237. This Emmy-winning video (that I posted before a couple times) is comforting

(and even better with a VR headset as it is a 360 video, and it can also be spun around with your mouse in 2D) -

[brush]

244. Don't forget us Kappas, Qs, Alphas and Sigmas are right behind you.

Devine Nine, yeah!

Colin Kaepernick btw, who started the NFL protests is my Kappa brother. And some of you might remember 1SBM from previous DU postings, he is also a Kappa.

[EffieBlack]

157. Thank you!

[EffieBlack]

154. The AKAs and other black sororities and fraternities are VERY politically engaged

They have huge and very well organized voter registration and voter engagement efforts, not just at election tone, but all year round.

But they are non-profit organizations and, as such, cannot endorse political candidates or engage in lobbying.

However, they are already far more involved and motivated than the average American - and have been since they were founded. That's what they do.

I urge you to do some more research about them - and then maybe instead of telling these extraordinarily well-informed black men and women to be more involved, you can tell white men and women to look at OUR AKAs, Deltas, Omegas, Kappas and other black Greek organizations as models for how THEY should engage.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

160. I appreciate your suggestion

I am a Life Time Member in one of them (Alpha). We are well-informed and well organized, but there is much more we can do. The THEY you're talking about is actually ME. I have been with my Brothers in registration drives and have driven them to the polls. I have served in different offices, and I went through a nine month (ol' skool) pledge process, so I can assure you that my research is solid.


I am in total agreement with your post, but I do think (and this conversation stems from the one regarding Black women and politics)that Black women have the resources to put forth their own nationally endorsed candidate with their own values.

I was simply pointing to the Greek letter orgs as platforms.

[BumRushDaShow]

171. I think Effie mentioned WHY the organizations, as registered

can't go that next step. I.e., they are listed as 501(c)(7) non-profits, which is this (from IRS page) -

To be exempt, a social club must meet the following requirements—

The club must be organized for exempt purposes .

Substantially all of its activities must further exempt purposes

If the club exceeds safe harbor guidelines for nonmember and investment income, the facts and circumstances must show that it is organized substantially for exempt purposes.

The club has de minimis income from nontraditional sources (i.e., from investments or from activities that, if conducted with members, would further the club's tax-exempt purposes).

For a discussion of the effect of nonmember and "nontraditional" income on the tax-exempt status of social clubs under section 501(c)(7), see Tax Issues for Tax-Exempt Social Clubs.

The club must provide an opportunity for personal contact among members, and membership must be limited.

The club must be supported by membership fees, dues, and assessments.

The organization’s net earnings may not inure to the benefit of any person having a personal and private interest in its activities.

The club's governing instrument may not contain a provision that provides for discrimination against any person on the basis of race, color, or religion.

The club may not hold itself out as providing goods and services to the general public.

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/other-non-profits/social-clubs

And in the above case, it restricts how far they can go... which is why the NAACP with similar restrictions as a 501(c)(3) org wants to change to become a 501(c)(4), which although also has some restrictions, it allows for some direct endorsements that relate to the mission.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

185. Thank you

This is informative.

[BumRushDaShow]

195. Yes I am learning some stuff myself

We have often talked about some of the white evangelical churches going around "endorsing" candidates yet their non-profit org registration forbids it and no one can seem to break through to get that non-profit status revoked.

I think it ends up that for our organizations, we figure the minute we try, the hammer will come out and the book will be thrown, and the non-profit status would be revoked, quick, fast, and in a hurry, while they blindly look at white organizations and do nothing to them while RW loons whine -

"The IRS is targeting conservative organizations!!!11111!! Waaaaaahhhhh!!111!!".

You'll note (as I am researching this) that Sharpton's "National Action Network" is registered as a 501(c)(4) which allows some of the political leeway. Alternately, "Black Lives Matter" appears to be registered as a 501(c)(3). But in all of these cases to include the sororities and fraternities, their focus is on "social issues" vs strictly "politics" although obviously politics very much impacts the social issues.

[EffieBlack]

196. FYI - National Action Network NEVER endorses candidates

[BumRushDaShow]

198. Their NPO registration won't allow it either!

[brush]

242. Wait one second. Give black men some credit too. We are the second highest...

Dem voting demographic. Higher than any other but black women so just give African Americans credit for knowing who to vote for.

[WhiteTara]

35. Dearest EffieBlack

I for one, am so grateful for the black women who have saved our asses so many times and have never even said a word when someone takes credit for all they have done. After the coup of 2000, I heard Al Sharpton speak and I knew then, if there was to be any salvation it was to follow/copy the black community in what you do. Black women have taught/are teaching us perseverance and courage.

[Lonestarblue]

27. Amen to that!

I am still irritated that the DNC could have put a black woman in a more prominent role as head or at least co-chair, but they stuck with men as usual.

[Wounded Bear]

7. Good point...

we need all hands on deck.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. Wish I could K&R this 100 times.

[Hortensis]

189. Why? It goes both ways. Blacks are only 13% of the population,

whites 76%. Without liberal white voters, they could never have accomplished anything. Except maybe to flee to another nation.

For a very long time, white liberals of this nation have been the major force behind a liberal wave that raised all boats and saved everyone. But not the only part. We had to do much of it together. All the New Deal, Fair Deal and Great Society advances were created by a majority coalition of POC and white progressives. Minorities uniting with us to help themselves and us were required to create that majority over the conservatives.

Notably, let's also point out that the right also has always required this white liberal+minority coalition to save THEM. Almost everything those have they owe to liberals and moderate progressive conservatives of all colors. We created it for everyone and we saved it for everyone for decades as the right indulged partisan spite and stupidity by electing people who promised to destroy what they actually very much wanted to keep.

Unfortunately, the huge threats facing our nation have demoralized and depressed all voters, empowering conservatives over liberals exactly when everyone most desperately needs those on the left of all races to be able to continue to save us all.

This is from 2013 data, but as we know it's only become worse. Note that the Hispanic blocs here include both white and indigenous Hispanics. At least half of their Democratic bloc also self identify white, bringing the white wedge up to around 3/4 of all Democrats.

One giant specific factor coming at exactly the wrong time is that as POC have become a larger portion of the Democratic Party, to our glory as the party of America, white membership has declined, to our deep regret and distress. When people look to a scary future and imagine less for everyone, fright causes them to become less generous and more determined to hold onto what they have. Ignorant cowards are afraid to be Democrats because they're worried about sharing what they can't afford to lose. And this fear is played on constantly, everywhere we look.

I always wince these days when authors and talking heads identify the Democratic Party as minority dominated, in spite of our large white majority, because that IS the message of the racist right. And it's no accident that we are characterized as dominated by POC, whites mentioned as if we were a minority instead of a still-large majority, very, very often now.

&w=480

[EffieBlack]

192. Yes. How dare we not show sufficient and heartfelt gratitude to our great white liberal allies

Without who we,'d be nowhere (unless we had fled to another country).

[mcar]

9. It's about time for the 53% of my white sisters who

still have a functioning brain to wake TF up!

[ehrnst]

10. k&r

[Honeycombe8]

11. We are ALL women. Why are you so hostile to anyone who isn't black?

Because you're afraid that someone may claim part of what you view as your ownership of being discriminated against?

You DO realize that the rights fought for white women INCLUDED black women when no one else would include you. YOU got the right to vote. YOU got the right to go to college. White women fought and voted for civil rights, when the men would not.

The issues facing sexual assault INCLUDE all races, all ethnicities.

Let's try not to eat each other and insult others because of their race. That is bigotry.

If you don't want all women to vote for issues that benefit you, keep it up. You will get your wish.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

14. "rights fought for white women included black women."

Wrong. Suffragists actively excluded black women from their work, and went along with policies that excluded black women from suffrage so they could get it for themselves.

We may all be women, but white women could use the privilege they have in a white supremacist patriarchy much more effectively than they do; many fear they will lose the privilege they have. It's important to examine that, sit with it and do the work on it. It's not an attack. Feeling defensive about it is often a good sign to examine why a person feels defensive.

[boston bean]

18. Suffragists were abolitionists who forged alliances with black americans who like them were not

allowed to vote.

Then black men were given the right to vote and all women were denied.

Then ALL women received the right to vote a mere 100 years ago.

No one in the latter was left out.

Adding that Jim Crow essentially prevented any black persons that right. But the right for women to vote was for all women.

[EffieBlack]

34. Apparently, you missed that big chunk of history when black men AND black women

were denied their right to vote long after white women got theirs - even though it was written in the Constitution - thanks to white men AND WHITE WOMEN who fought like hell to keep them from voting.

You apparently aren't aware that even before white women got the constitutional right to vote, they at least had the benefit of their households and interests being represented at the polls by the head of their household who could vote, something denied to white women.

And when women did get the right to vote in 1920, white women just started voting. They didn't have to fight and die and get lynched for the next hundred years after that just to vote and have to get a landmark piece of legislation passed in order JUST to protect the right that was written into the Constitution.

[boston bean]

41. I think you are pissed off at the patriarchy as well as I.

I don’t think I forgot anything. But effie what do you want white women allies to do?? I am listening. We just witnessed a white women be given the misogynist treatment.


Yes I believe black women have it worse it many ways. But misogyny aint no fucking cake walk. Please tell me what you white allies are not doing this that could be better.

We are no better able to change a supremacists mind than you are. But we are with you and fight with you.

[EffieBlack]

45. One thing that would be nice for white women allies to do

is to stop saying - and call out - some of the ignorant shit we see right here in this thread. To stop telling black women to be quiet, we're bring divisive and overly sensitive. To do just what the tweet in my OP says - start talking to and convincing your white sisters to get their crap together and pull their own weight and stop expecting us to do it while they then ignore and denean and dismiss us and tell us to sit down, be quiet and not be so "hostile" when they don't think they need our votes anymore.

[boston bean]

57. Effie we fight against it. We are in it. But what power do you think we have over

White Supremacists?? We have very little power, I believe the last weeks is good evidence and f that.

We call it out. We march. We protest. We add our voices.

We are with black women. But I can’t convince a bigot to not be a bigot. They just are. Now as a social movement we can make progress but it is SLOW.

We are in a bad place and have been since the beginning of our countries history. But we have made slow
Progress.

I just think expecting allies to do something they cannot do, something you yourself cannot do immediately is not a helpful way to move forward. We are together. Yes I wish more people were like us and were together and I have no defense for white women who are bigots. But those aren’t people who will be helpful to all of our goals. We must work together. The women with black persons are not responsible for this. And what we have just been through should convince you how little power we actually have. Together is our way forward. Understanding everyone’s plight. Fighting for eachother is our only path.

[EffieBlack]

60. Who is this "we" of which you speak?

Maybe some of you are doing it, judging by this thread, your "we" is a little broad.

You have a lot of work to do right in your own ranks.

[boston bean]

61. Effie, I am with you. I am not against you. But I am a we.

You and me.

[EffieBlack]

66. Please don't ask me what I think you can do and when I tell you

immediately respond by telling me you're already doing everything you can.

If you ask for my opinion, at least take the time to consider it. If you're just looking to be made to feel better for not doing more, don't come to me for your hall pass. I

[boston bean]

71. Effie you want me to fight idiots on D in this thread.. I've been doing that for over 10 years.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

74. But you haven't done it in this actual thread.

I encourage you to step away from this thread for a bit and think about why it's more important to you to convince EffieBlack that you're Doing The Thing than actually doing it.

[boston bean]

78. I am trying to explain why I don't believe the OP (twitter) post is wrong headed.

I have been respectful and thoughtful and caring. I don’t think you should take that to mean I agree with every post on this thread.

I have fought the bozo’s a million times. And it goes back to my original point. I cannot convince them of
Something they will not see.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

81. Why are you working so hard to tell EffieBlack *you agree with her* rather than do a little work?

I have fought the bozo’s a million times. And it goes back to my original point. I cannot convince them of
Something they will not see.

I'll tell you something about why I engage with people who spout bigoted and racist views on message boards. It's very, very rare that I convince them to change their minds. And that's fine -- I can't make someone think something else. But when you engage with them, and walk them through how they're wrong, you know that other people are reading, too. People who maybe know they're inculcated with racist viewpoints, but also know they're wrong, but also don't know how to stop thinking a certain way. Or they're looking for arguments they can use on Racist Grandpa for Thanksgiving fun, or the nice book-club lady who thinks her kids' school is fine right now, but there's such a thing as "too diverse," you know?

Convincing allies that you're an ally wastes your time and is exhausting for people like EffieBlack.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

62. You asked EffieBlack what you could do.

She responded: "One thing that would be nice for white women allies to do is to stop saying - and call out - some of the ignorant shit we see right here in this thread."

She LITERALLY just told you what you could be doing IN THIS THREAD and instead you're running around telling everyone white women are "with" black women.

[boston bean]

64. Pretty sure I didn't say that. But a hell of a lot of them are.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

65. What? In post 57?

We call it out. We march. We protest. We add our voices.

We are with black women.

You get a much better return on your time calling out racist bullshit than ensuring you get the right size ally cookie. Get to it!

[boston bean]

68. Wow, very sorry for saying I and many have the same goals.

That is a truthful statement not a request for a cookie.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

70. Don't apologize. Just call out the bigoted bullshit that's here ON THIS VERY BOARD.

[boston bean]

73. I have for over ten years. Been pretty damn vocal.

It’s like screaming into the wind.

I get what you are saying though.

[brush]

246. Keep doing what you're doing. Also talk to other white women about...

the repugs just forcing an attempted rapist, fratboy elite onto the Supreme Court.

Many of the 53% of white women trump voters are just as pissed as we are even though they may have to hide it from their husbands.

Just talk to them at work and church and tell them you are pissed too and will never vote repug again (even though you never do).

[EffieBlack]

75. Marching is easy

Difficult conversations with fellow white women is hard and too many so-called progressive white women don't want to do it - to the point that, as evidenced by the hyper-ventillating overreactions to my OP, simply asking white women to have these conversations with other white women is seen as "divisive" and "hostile."

[boston bean]

82. I am betrayed by them as well. I am not just some person who can convince people.

I have done it. I will continue. But my time is not best spent there.

You think they just listen and say oh you’re right and I’ll vote for so and so. I do NOt have the power you are attributing to me.

That is what I am trying to get across.

It is better spent with people working and fighting for the same rights.

[EffieBlack]

85. Then why ask me what you can do if you think you're already doing everything you can?

[boston bean]

103. Ok you win. I am just awful. Have a good day.

[EffieBlack]

104. Oh, please

Here's something else you can do: don't write things like that in response to a black woman answering your question of what you can do.

At least not if you're actually serious about being an ally and not just seeking grateful thanks for being so totally awesome ...

[boston bean]

109. I wrote to you thoughtful responses. If you want to attribute to me the power

That ME, I, because i am not one of many per your words, then fine. Don’t be sad when you realize I never had the power you expected I had.

You like to make the argument that because I disagree with twitterer, that white woman can’t change all the bigotry in the world by confronting white women because we are also oppressed by the same factions you fight and therfore I can’t consider myself to have the same goals as you then fuck it. Or that I am not worthy or ny voice means less. I’ll just keep my little mouth shut and opinions to myself like I have been my entire life due to the system we both struggle in. Thanks.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

114. Every response you have made in this thread has centered on you and the work you say you do.

There were plenty of opportunities in this thread to confront people actively working to discount the OP. Instead you wasted EffieBlack's time and your own by insisting that you DO do work and you've been doing work and it's hard. Yes. It is. Keep doing it. You're now putting words in EffieBlack's mouth and projecting your frustration. Stop. Stop doing this. Think about why you feel the need to be defensive against someone you want to claim as an ally. Think about why you so insist to hard that you call people out for racism and haven't done so in this thread. Think about why you want the reactions you try to get others give you. Do better.

[boston bean]

117. It has not. I spoke of the many allies and then got my ass handed to me for doing so.

Reading the entirety of responses is quite helpful.

It was actually reminiscent of the women in this board who I have foughtt telling me not ALL WOMEN. You don’t speak for all. What the fuck ever effie.

I will always be on your side but with my lips shut, ok??

[brush]

245. Talk to your sisters, cousins, co-workers, fellow church goers about the repug misogynists who...

just put an attempted racist, fratboy elitist on the SUPREME COURT for the rest of his misogynistic life.

They are pissed too even if they may have to hide if from their husbands and fathers. Just talk and tell them you will never vote repug again (even if you never do). A little deception may be in order if we can get a few percentage points of those 53% white women trump voters to wake the hell up.

Just talk to them.

[OneGrassRoot]

110. I believe we as white people...

are indeed responsible to eradicate racism. Just as it's primarily up to men to eradicate sexism. Those who are in the dominating group are the ones who must ultimately transform things.

So I as a white woman do believe I have more responsibility to stand up to white supremacy than people of color who are the target of the hate.

[boston bean]

112. Of course we are. But why blame the peolle fighting along with you to eradicate it.

They also have the absolute responsibility to fight our oppression as well.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

115. There is no blame in this OP. None.

[boston bean]

119. "Get your house in order". Seems to be blaming white women for not being able to control others.

And that has been my entire point. We will not be able to do that. We do not have that power. We must fight for it at the ballot box with our allies.

We are in this together. Those who think the same. Those who feel the same. Those doing the work for the same. As far as I am concerned my house is in order with my fellow travelers. I don’t belong to a house of bigots. I fight them. And I don’t blame black people for Kanye.

Yes I know there is a power dynamic, but the white women, if not understood after this week and 2016 are NOT in positions of power. We all need eachother.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

124. If it's not about you, it's not about you. Talking about how it's not about you makes it about you.

More white women voters pick Republican presidential candidates than Democratic ones. They've done so in every election since 1952 except for two. White women have the power that white supremacy gives them. As a whole, they'll hold onto that as much as they can, whether it's through voting, or ignoring issues like race-based pay inequalities or health outcomes, or supporting certain businesses and schools at the expense of others.

Yes, white women who are Democrats are all in this together. But being "in this" means being in a white supremacist society, and it's so, so easy for white supremacy to creep into circles that see themselves as anti-racist and focused on equality. We're soaking in it; it's hard to rid ourselves of it.

You say you fight bigots. That's wonderful. You say the OP doesn't apply to you. OK. But in this thread, all you've done is spend time explaining directly to a woman of color how the OP doesn't apply to you, while other posters posted *actual bigoted things.* That's not helpful.

It's okay to walk away and take this feedback to heart or not. But I will say one of the least helpful things white women can do is waste everyone's time insisting what a great ally they are to WOC. I hate it when men do it to women. I hate it when progressives do it to union members. Why demand accolades for what you've done? It makes it look like that's why you do it.

[boston bean]

128. Umm it is about me. I am on your side and that is what the OP was about.

White women(check). Feel betrayed (check). Know other white women are bigots (check). Being asked to get my house on order first before we can get the senate in play (check).

Point is that is a ridiculous ask. I cannot convince all bigots to not be bigots. I DO NOT have that power and neither does any white female who is fighting the scourges.

We need to be together. Yes, black women fight a more insidious form due to the combination of the color of theor skin and their sex. However thinking white women who are fighting with them must get every other white woman to not be a bigot is just to much of an high threshold to be a good ally.

And the twitterer was saying just as much. And it is not helpful and to me it is ridiculous.

Why can’t just all who are on the same side be on the same side?

[LexVegas]

129. Its lashing out to find someone to blame after a disappointing loss.

Happens every time.

[violetpastille]

148. I take "Get your house in order"

To mean something much more personal.

If you are white, you are part of a racist system. I am white. I am part of a racist system. This country was built on a racist system. I am benefitting from that racist system. I may not participate in overtly racist acts. But my unearned privilege is racist.

To "Get My House In Order" means to really sit and sit and just marinate in that thought. Just that. Not say "Yes of course" but really SIT in it. When it starts to feel bad and personal is when you're on to something.

I strongly recommend:
Out of the House of Bondage: The Transformation of the Plantation Household

Spoiler Alert: White Women are the White Men of Women. We are NOT the N Word of the World. Not even close.

[LexVegas]

152. "White Women are the White Men of Women."

[boston bean]

153. People do realize this. And anyone fighting these fights

knows n

[violetpastille]

162. Just when you think you've done the work of fighting the internal fight

You can go even deeper.

[OneGrassRoot]

172. +1 to both of your posts in this sub-thread. n/t

[kcr]

194. All of this is true. The problem I have is it seems to logically follow for some

(I'm in no way referring to the OP, she's one of my favorite DUers) that the whiteness of women somehow erases the problems they face as women. I'ts not so much on DU, but its' other places where people who normally don't share an interest in these subjects suddenly are very enthusiastic and that just seems suspicious to me, like ooh, a chance to bash feminism! I probably shouldn't even talk about it here on DU, but sore spots. I carefully tread in threads like this because I don't want it to seem like I'm rejecting intersectionality, or that I think that the problems of white women supersede all. I think it's long past time for white feminists to stop ignoring women of color, and I don't think women of color are under any obligation to consider the feelings of any white women, mine included.

[EffieBlack]

197. I don't think anyone claims that white women don't have problems

However, the problems white women face are never caused by or worsened by their whiteness.

And thanks for the compliment - you're one of my favorites, too.

[kcr]

199. No one serious is, for sure.

ITA

[BumRushDaShow]

44. Hate to do this but

why were black women suffragettes and civil rights organizers told to got to the back of the Womens' Marches?

Ida Wells-Barnett confronts race and gender discrimination

<...>

Perhaps one of Wells-Barnett's most important stands occurred at the March 3, 1913, National American Woman Suffrage Association (NAWSA) parade in the nation's capital. NAWSA was the national umbrella organization for state suffrage affiliates. Its history dated to 1890 when the National Woman Suffrage Association and the American Woman Suffrage Association merged their forces and resources. The primary goal was to enfranchise women. But, NAWSA did not always embrace all women. The southern white women encouraged to seek membership in NAWSA adhered to the same white supremacy ideology that their men championed. Dependence on southerners for the passage of full suffrage rights for women muffled any opposition that NAWSA might have harbored to the usurpation of the social, economic, and political rights that blacks gained during the Reconstruction years. NAWSA refused to publicly denounce racial segregation, adopted a policy of expediency, and accepted Jim Crow within its own ranks. This left the door open for state affiliates to discriminate against black women. But Illinois suffragists had always embraced African-American women like Wells-Barnett and encouraged their participation in the state movement. The Women's State Central Committee, for example, utilized Wells-Barnett's lecturing skills and enlisted her aid in canvassing the state to encourage women to organize and develop political knowledge.

Despite the progressive attitude of white female Illinois suffragists, they refused to support her in the historic suffrage march in Washington. Carrying banners representing almost every state in the Union, thousands of parade marchers underscored the demand for universal female enfranchisement. Wells-Barnett was one of sixty-five enthusiastic delegates from Illinois and one of many black women who participated in the march. But the African-American women were instructed to gather as one unit at the end of the procession because the NAWSA forbade the integration of state affiliates in the march. Wells-Barnett refused to comply with the NAWSA demand and instead lined up with her state contingent. Grace Wilbur Trout, president of the Illinois Equal Suffrage Association and chairperson of the group, initially sanctioned the integrated group. But after meeting with a NAWSA official, she told the delegation that Wells-Barnett could not march with the state contingent. Further, if they failed to follow the instructions set forth by the NAWSA, the entire delegation would be denied participation in the march.

Angry at the blatant disregard for her rights as a woman and as an Illinois resident, Wells-Barnett refused to comply. It was time to confront racism within the suffrage movement. Southern women, she argued, had evaded the issues of race, and the NAWSA and its state affiliates had allowed it. She wanted the Illinois group to show the nation that it was progressive enough to stand against NAWSA's hypocrisy of oppressing women because of their race while embracing the idea of equality for all women at the ballot box. Her pleas, however, fell on deaf ears. So did the pleas of two white colleagues, Belle Squire and Virginia Brooks.

Deeply disturbed over the action that her comrades had taken, Wells-Barnett left the parade site. The delegates assumed that she had relented and decided to march with the black contingent. But as the delegates began marching down Pennsylvania Avenue, she quietly stepped out from the crowd of spectators and joined the only white Illinois colleagues sympathetic to her cause, Squire and Brooks. So important was the scene that a photograph of her flanked by the two white women appeared in the Chicago Daily Tribune giving the event and its participants local and national exposure. Southern marchers did not defect, but perhaps in part because they did not learn of the incident until after the parade ended. The press coverage reassured many black women of their own place in the suffrage movement and probably convinced many whites that the question of race, gender, and enfranchisement were inextricably tied.

http://www.lib.niu.edu/1996/iht319630.html

Link to tweet

TEXT
Adilah Barnes @Adilah_Barnes

#FBF w/ #AdilahBarnes in IRON JAWED ANGELS. I was elated to play IDA B. WELLS opposite #HillarySwank!
7:08 PM - Oct 20, 2017

[JustAnotherGen]

133. Thank you

Suffrage in the South. That required black women to go to the back of the line.

My dad's mother cast her first vote in 1964.

Her contemporaries - my mom's grandmothers - cast their first vote in the 1920's.


Case closed.

[BumRushDaShow]

138. Exactly.

See, white women didn't have to deal with this some 40+ years after the 19th Amendment was passed -

[EffieBlack]

16. Here we go

I knew it was only a matter of time ...

Your post is Exhibit A - and B and C - for the very point of the tweet. So I'll just leave it there without further comment at this point as an instructive tool for anyone who wants to better understand what we're talking about.

[melman]

29. Of course

Post a deliberately inflammatory thread and if anyone responds in a way other than praising you for trashing them, then it only proves you were right to trash them! Obviously.

[EffieBlack]

40. Of course

You think that any reference to "white" - at least by anyone who is not white - is "deliberately inflammatory."

[LanternWaste]

247. The corollary you practice so consistently seems the only 'proof' you require

The corollary you practice so consistently seems the only 'proof' you require to validate your biases as well.

It's bemusing to watch you indict six of one, whilst yet praising half a dozen of the other.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. Also....

Because you're afraid that someone may claim part of what you view as your ownership of being discriminated against?

This is a breathtakingly shitty thing to say. Do you actually believe that WOC like the fact that they're more likely to die in childbirth, that their wage rates are much lower than white women's, that they are vastly more likely to be incarcerated for any kind of charge? What the hell does this even mean? Get a hold of yourself.

[Tree-Hugger]

28. +1 nt

[47of74]

21. No some of them are just as virulent racists as the men

If not more so.

Look at this article about Ashlie Atkinson - who played the Klan wife in BlackKklansman. She speaks of how much white women were and still are complicit in all this racist horseshit.

https://m.mic.com/articles/190711/connie-is-the-villain-in-blackkklansman-but-ashlie-atkinson-is-ready-for-white-people-to-wake-up#.gWC9M48Uz

[WhiskeyGrinder]

26. Stop spewing bigoted garbage.

This thing that some blacks have that no one can claim discrimination or unfairness...not whites, not Hispanics, no Native Americans...is peculiar. That would cause them to have to stand up and be reasonable and actually concerned about others.

Quit projecting. You're embarrassing yourself.

[Honeycombe8]

31. The OP is a bigoted post.

Outright bigotry.

First, no one needs "saving."

Second, no one asked the OP to save them. The arrogance of that is on a level seen only by some Republicans these days. And the OP.

Third, this "no one else can claim unfairness because I claimed it first...no one has suffered more than WE have..." is peculiar. That someone is jealous that someone else might claim unfairness and, what, steal their thunder, they think?

The Democratic Party has a wide tent and consists of ALL races and ethnicities & religions. The Democratic Party supports causes and issues that ALL races and ethnicities & religions care about.

So the OP doesn't want my support for issues that matter most to black women? In the past, I have solidly voted for issues that matter most to black women, but I will take that into consideration, then. If someone doesn't want support, all they have to do is say so, as the OP has repeatedly done.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

42. "No one needs 'saving.'"

Tell that to all the white women saying "I can't believe this is the world we live in" recently, when they feel like the eye of Sauron has turned on them, for once.

Second, no one asked the OP to save them. The arrogance of that is on a level seen only by some Republicans these days. And the OP.

Ijeoma Oluo is a well-known author and speaker who covers feminism, economics, the idea of intersectionality and race. She's a keen observer of both her own lived reality and the bigger trends in our society.

Third, this "no one else can claim unfairness because I claimed it first...no one has suffered more than WE have..." is peculiar. That someone is jealous that someone else might claim unfairness and, what, steal their thunder, they think?

I do hope you stretch before you make jumps from "White women: feel this betrayal right now? This fear and anger and pain? First off: welcome. Second: Use it to talk with other white women. Get some of that 53% to join you. Get your house in order & then make this senate pay." to "no one else can claim unfairness because I claimed it first." What is it about white people who disbelieve the experiences of POC, especially when those experiences turn toward white people themselves? It's projection, and it's embarrassing.

Typing all that out, I wonder, is it just the last line you object to? The reminder that black people can't save you? Is it fear that makes white people lash out when things go to shit, the realization that they've played a fool's game for years, and that it's true that no one can save them, because they don't know how to save themselves?

Racism is a problem that can't be solved just by voting, so focusing on party politics the way you do is just lazy. It takes hard work in the silence of your heart, around supper tables, in the workplace, in faith and social communities. It also requires the dismantling of institutions that were built on white supremacy. It's scary, for sure. But it must be done.

[Honeycombe8]

46. Dear Black women: White women cannot save you.

Black women: feel this betrayal right now? This fear and anger and pain?

First off: welcome.

Second: Use it to talk with other black women. Get some of them to join you in voting. Get your house in order & then make this administration pay.

White women cannot save you.

The OP, in reverse.

I guess the OP means that Kamala Harris cannot "save" us. Thanks for the tip.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

49. This would be a valid argument or post if "black" and "white" had the same level of privilege in

our society. They don't, so switching the words doesn't make any sense.

[EffieBlack]

48. Thank you.

[Honeycombe8]

38. I'm clipping & saving this and other posts by the OP.

As more whites leave the Democratic Party, I can hear it now: Whites are leaving the Democrtic Party because as more people of color joined it, they realized they're racist!

But no...if more and more Democrats exhibit bigotry against whites, they will naturally leave. Just as blacks would not have joined the Democratic Party, if they hadn't been welcome there. So I'll have some posts to show friends in the future, to show one reason some whites no doubt left.

To blame Democrats for the way Republicans vote is the ultimate twisted bigoted argument.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

43. You are seeing things that aren't there from the OP, and projecting fears and issues you have all

over it. You're also advocating treating POC as second-class citizens within the party so white people don't get "scared" and "run off." You should be ashamed.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

47. "I'm clipping & saving this and other posts by the OP."

You need a better hobby.

[LanternWaste]

248. The great thing about this bigotry against Caucasians you consistently claim...

is that if you look hard enough, you can find it anywhere you look-- even in places where it doesn't exist.

Twisted, bigoted arguments indeed.

[EffieBlack]

22. You think "White women fought for our rights when no one else would?"

Well, lah dee dah - that sure would come as a surprise to all of our black brothers who fought and died for the rights of black men AND women while huge swaths of white women aligned with, propped up and hid behind the white patriarchy - including those black men who died because white women pointed their finger at them and formed their lying lips to say to their white men: "It was HIM that did this to me."

With all due respect - and I mean DUE - take that revisionist, anti-historical, self-entitled, white female privilege crap somewhere else where people are stupid enough to believe it.

[Honeycombe8]

24. That would come as a surprise to the whites who died during the civil rights fight.

Sorry to tread on your "no one's been oppressed or discriminated against but me!!! That's MY claim to fame!"

Get over yourself. No one is looking to you to save them.

[EffieBlack]

51. So, some whites fighting and dying in the Civil Rights movement means

white men and women did not oppress black men and women?

You DO know that the whites who fought in the civil Rights movement were fighting WHITE RACISM AND OPPRESSION and those who were martyred were KILLED BY WHITE PEOPLE fighting to continue oppressing blacks?

You can't be this clueless - and I don't think you are.

[NJCher]

37. OP's post is divisive

Let's try not to eat each other and insult others because of their race. That is bigotry.

I was a leader in the feminist movement in the 70s. Specifically, I was the youngest chapter president ever of a NOW chapter in any major city. We worked hard to get African American women to join us. We weren't always successful. We were often told the civil rights movement as first in their priorities of what battles they were going to fight.

[EffieBlack]

59. What exactly is divisive about it? Please be specific.

Who does it divide and from whom? Again, please be specific.

Does something in the OP make you change your attitude or actions in any way? If so, what and why?

I look forward to your explanation.

[NJCher]

91. it divides white women and black women for no reason

The Tweet assumes that this is the first time white women have felt betrayal. As a longtime leader in the feminist movement, I assure you that is not the case. White women felt the same betrayal as black women when Anita Hill was treated the way that she was. The fact there are still two members of the commitee who marginalized Anita Hill only adds to the bitterness. How little things have changed.

Second, I'm not asking for any black women to save me nor do I know of any other women who are. It is presumptuous in the extreme to assume so, and this post pits black women against white women when our interests are the same. We need to be working together and in the place where I live, we are. I don't know where this Tweeter is from or what her experience is or why she assumes white women are expecting black women to help them. If you can explain that, it would be appreciated.

[EffieBlack]

95. How does the OP divide white women and black women?

Are you saying that a white woman reading this OP is going to, based on what she read, distance herself from black women and be less likely to support equality and economic and social justice for African-American women?

Any white woman whose commitment to these issues is that fragile, had much more serious problems than a comment made on an anonymous discussion board.

Funny how the only time some people are concerned about "divisiveness" is when black people speak our truth. On the other hand, white folk say all manner of things that we find deeply offensive and not only are they not called out for being "divisive," when we express any objection to them, it is WE who are accused of bring "divisive."

[NurseJackie]

149. Nailed it.

[OneGrassRoot]

233. Truth n/t

[WhiskeyGrinder]

96. The interests of black women and white women are not necessarily the same.

White women enjoy the privilege living in a white supremacy grants them, whether they want it or not. WOC do not have that. WOC have much more to gain in dismantling white supremacy, and white women may feel they have something to lose if it's gone.

Second, I'm not asking for any black women to save me nor do I know of any other women who are.

If it's not about you, it's not about you. Other WOC and white women have had different experiences.

I don't know where this Tweeter is from or what her experience is or why she assumes white women are expecting black women to help them. If you can explain that, it would be appreciated.

Her name is Ijeoma Oluo, and she is a well-known author and speaker who covers feminism, economics, the idea of intersectionality and race. She's a keen observer of both her own lived reality and the bigger trends in our society.

Twitter is a great resource for finding and learning new voices and perspectives without the pressure of participating or "getting it right" before you understand an issue. I've found it so, so helpful for uncovering marginalized voices and learning about the lived experiences of groups I am not a part of. I recommend it!

[EffieBlack]

240. Hello?

[Chemisse]

141. Yes the OP's post is divisive, by design, as is so often the case.

However I don't begrudge anyone their choice of top issue. I think civil rights would have to have been the top issue of AAs in the 70s, ahead of feminism.

[Kind of Blue]

179. Could the weren't-always-successful be related to

the Suffragette period when black women were told to stand in the back and silenced or to babysit white women's children and silenced when they attended feminist meeting, as was the case with my mom and her friends when they tried in the early '70s?

It's crystal clear understanding why black women chose civil rights as their focus. As my mom said when she returned within 20 minutes of leaving for the meeting, "What am I fighting for? When white women ask you to join their movement, RUN." LOL. SSDD.

It's clear that feminist leaders of the past failed to recognize that racism and misogyny are tied at the hip. After all these years, I guess I'm not that surprised that a former leader of a NOW chapter finds this post divisive when there are clear reasons for and a well-known fact that white women are the backbone of white supremacy. https://www.bitchmedia.org/article/mothers-of-massive-resistance-white-supremacist-women

By the way, it's also a well-known fact that above all people who benefit disproportionately from the Civil Rights Movement are white women and now ridiculously there on the front-lines in opposition. Is Sisterhood Conditional? White Women and the Rollback of Affirmative Action https://www.jstor.org/stable/4316599 https://www.bustle.com/p/who-does-affirmative-action-benefit-white-women-are-some-of-its-biggest-opponents-74034

I wish that You would stop being divisive and accept reality. Even recently black women saved Virginia and Alabama. The persistent mantra that followed that black women are the backbone of the Democratic Party sickened me because what's really divisive are the two-thirds of non-black Obama voters who stayed home, nearly two-thirds white in 2016, and 12% of Sanders supporters who voted for 45 to which the OP is addressing.

[OneGrassRoot]

234. * slow clap * n/t

[nini]

54. Read your last sentence over about 10 times

THAT explains so much. You tried to say we're all in the same boat, then that last sentence pulled the plantation attitude out. We'll help you only if you stay in line.

I doubt you are even able to see that.

[mcar]

83. Black women have it harder than white women. Period

In every way. I'm a white woman and I see that clearly.

We don't get a cookie because the rights women fought for included for black women.

In our society, even today, after all the fighting, white men are at the top of the ladder. White women, maybe in the middle. Women of color, at least several rungs down. We all can get to the top - but who has to work harder to get there? How often do the ladder rungs break?

It may be a dumb analogy, but it's the best I can do.

And this?

If you don't want all women to vote for issues that benefit you, keep it up. You will get your wish.

No, just no.

[Chemisse]

150. Absolutely true.

I don't want a cookie for caring and I don't want to kiss ass to prove I care.

I believe in mutual respect and working together toward common goals.

[metroins]

201. I agree with you.

This site has serious white hatred and I consider it racism.

A decent chunk of why I hardly come back here.

[Hekate]

208. Awhile ago in a similar thread, I pointed out 3 human rights movements led by white women in America

The first was the movement to abolish slavery. White women consciously put aside their own desires for legal equality with men (which was not trivial -- women at the time had the legal status of idiots, the insane, the incarcerated, and children) -- in order to concentrate on the evils of slavery and strategize how to end it in the US.

And the vote for women -- which was for all women. And second wave feminism, which was for all women.

In any case, response to my statement was nil, zip, nada. Neither acknowledgement of historical truth nor attempt to refute it -- nor any attempt to engage. Crickets.

There is a certain poster who is full of righteous wrath -- and indeed much of history supports her. However when righteous wrath becomes blind self-righteousness, the argument is already lost.

[EffieBlack]

218. Maybe you got only crickets because people were being merciful to you

and didn't want to give it to you with both barrels in response to your skewed, a-historical rewriting of history.

First, the abolitionist movement wasn't "led" by white women. It was led by disparate and diverse individuals and coalitions, including current and former slaves, freepersons of color and white men and women. And while some decent, courageous white women were abolitionists, many more fought against abolition and for the maintenance of the institution of slavery.

The fight for the right for women to vote was almost exclusively a fight for the franchise for white women. Even after the passage of the 19th Amendment, a majority of black women were still unable to vote, a situation the suffragette movement did little to nothing to correct. It took another 45 years and an act of Congress to protect black women's exercise of the right white women took completely for granted and exercised without interference.

I suggest you go back and study some history - starting with some viewpoints and experiences of black women during that period before writing any more about it. Next time, people might not be so kind.

[Hekate]

225. Ooo, "merciful". I've been posting here since 2002, and have not bled to death yet.

But you and I seem to have a distinct problem communicating, and as a consequence, I tend to avoid your threads and comments. I'll resume that, after one cautionary note: try not alienating all your allies at once.

[EffieBlack]

226. If someone is "alienated" because of what a stranger writes on an anonymous online discussion board

they're not an ally.

[Danascot]

12. Absolutely true

But we wouldn't have a chance without black women.

[Honeycombe8]

15. You're blaming Democrats because Republicans supported Kavanaugh? Are you a Democrat?

What political party do you belong to?

Democrats are not responsible for the existence of Republicans, whatever race or gender they are.

Keep you eye on the ball. Know who your enemies are. Your enemies are NOT any particular gender or race or ethnicity.

White men are not your enemy, any more than black men are. White women are not your enemy. Hispanic women and men are not your enemies.

The Democratic Party is composed of all races, ethnicities, and genders.

If you want a party that consists of only black women, more power to you. Start one. But the Democratic Party is more inclusive, and does not endorse the bigotry that your statement exhibits.

"Black women cannot save you." You think that others think you are so all powerful that you can "save" white people? You've been listening to Trump too much. Get over yourself. Maybe you are looking to white people to save YOU. The Democratic Party is mainly white. Without us, you would lose the support for your issues that you care most about.

Our power is collective. The Democratic Party and some independents. Both genders, all races & ethnicities. No bigotry allowed.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. No one's talking about enemies or parties.

"Our power is collective." Unfortunately, white women aren't great at sharing the little power they have.

If you want a party that consists of only black women, more power to you. Start one. [div/]

Stop putting words in people's mouths.

But the Democratic Party is more inclusive, and does not endorse the bigotry that your statement exhibits.

There is no bigotry in the statement in the OP.

What do you lose if it's true that white women are bad at welcoming WOC into places of power?

[Blue_true]

32. Honeycombe8.

The simple fact is that in modern politics, the wisest voting group are Black women. While they can't win by themselves, the Democratic Party does not stand a chance without them. Yet, we routinely hear about educated young Whites being the party base, they are not. Maybe you or Effie should take this to PM, both of you seem to have strong feelings on this, many times such things get worked out through PMs, without other people looking in.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

58. EffieBlack does not need that kind of hostility sliding in her DMs.

[EffieBlack]

63. Or, instead of telling me to shut up and go away because I make you uncomfortable,

you could just put me on ignore.

Or you can continue to being the illustration of exactly what I and others are discussing and describing.

[Blue_true]

79. Actually Effie. I like your posts. You can put me on ignore, but I won't put you on ignore.

Honestly, I felt that you were right, I did not flesh that out in my post. 53% of White women voted for an asshole. Though a large amount of that 53% were republican women, there were a lot of Dems and Indies there too.

Both you and the other poster are right, for different reasons. Democrats CAN'T win without Black women, but Black women can't win without other democrats and indies, including White women.

The issue of priviledge is behind the divide. The fact is that for a Black woman to "make it" she has to work much harder than a White woman has to, though BOTH women have to work far, far harder than a White man. That is just the dynamic that is baked into our societal cake, getting rid of it will require intolerance toward sexism AND racism, teaching kids to respect people for what they do, and not downgrade them because of who they were born as - that is a hard task that people of good will need to fight and be relentless in fighting. Trump as President is a setback, but on Nov 7, if we have one or two Black governor elect in southern states, a gigantic clarion bell would have been rung and there will be no going back to the way things were.

I have crossed swords with both you and Honeycombe8 quite a bit. I find that both of you are tireless in pressing your viewpoint, in every case that I remember, I simply surrendered. Both of you made good and bad points in your posts in this thread, my suggestion was simply that both of you could have a real conversation out of the limelight. I have done that with some DU members and in all but one case, it worked out for us as we got to flesh out our feelings directly communicating with eachother.

[EffieBlack]

87. I misread and misunderstood your previous post. I apologize.

[Blue_true]

94. No problem. But you did make some good points that caused me to expand on. nt

[ismnotwasm]

136. I was just on Twitter referencing this thread

As exhibit #1 to a young AA activist talking about similar sentiments.Won’t link to it because I’m embarrassed, and she doesn’t need to see it. She knows more about it that I do.

[lindysalsagal]

25. I'm afraid people are so clueless that they can't learn anything until it's a total loss.

I'm afraid we'll have to return to back-alley abortions for young women to wake up and start paying attention.

I really hope I'm wrong.

[SMC22307]

30. White women who feel betrayed were probably voting for Democrats anyway.

We don't need to be saved.

In my circles, the white women who vote R are comfortable financially, own their own homes, and have good government- or private insurance. They're anti-choice and don't feel betrayed in the least; in fact, they're cheering Kavanaugh and Republican domination. I have no idea what percentage these types of women make up toward the 53%, but I guarantee they do not feel the need to be saved.

Lower socio-economic white women might be another story, but if they feel Drumpf is good for the economy, choice will go by the wayside. I'm to the point now where I think only cuts to Social Security and Medicare will get to these women, but even that's not a given. The masters of propaganda will blame it on Democrats and they'll go along.

We have GOT to make sure people have appropriate IDs and personally drive them to the polls, if necessary. Obama pointed out that minorities and young people don't vote in the midterms (see the disastrous 2010) and that has GOT to change.

Whoever wrote that tweet doesn't seem to have a very good grasp of women voters. I have left out the Malleable Middle, the Sensible Centrists... perhaps they can be brought 'round. Anyone have any insight into those who straddle the fence? I'm guessing choice isn't that big of an issue for them or they'd be voting for Dems!

[boston bean]

33. Yes back women have it worse, yes many white women are bigots. But what kind of power do you

Think white women have over white supremacists. It’s about zero.

We will always fight it. But a good damned percentage of white women are with black women.

I am not certain how blaming the many white women who support black women and causes is going to help.

What do you want white women allies to do? We are with you. We fight with you. We want what you want because if you win we win and it’s just the damned right thing to do and happen.

But what is it black women want white women to do? We just watched one get up on stage and her attempted rapist ascended to the highest court in the land!! Same thing that happened with Anita Hill and in many ways this time was even more unfair.

All who believe the same have very little power. What would you like us to do to change white supremacists minds? How do you do it???

[WhiskeyGrinder]

55. "But what kind of power do you think white women have over white supremacists."

Not much, but they certainly have power -- social capital -- when talking with their friends and co-workers. We live in a white supremacist society, so it's impossible not to internalize some of it over time. Many women who voted for Trump wouldn't see themselves as white supremacists, and neither would their friends. But it's there, and white women need to work on that.

I am not certain how blaming the many white women who support black women and causes is going to help.

There's no blame here. If it's not about you, it's not about you. Only you know whether it is or not.

What do you want white women allies to do? We are with you. We fight with you. We want what you want because if you win we win and it’s just the damned right thing to do and happen.

White women can use the privilege they have to amplify the voices of WOC, to fund their initiatives, to connect them with the power they do have. They can sit a leadership cycle out in party politics or community groups or school associations, or use their leadership to say "Who's not here, and what's keeping them from being here?" It's tedious work, no doubt. It can feel like small changes, when it's so obvious we should all be on the same page. But it's these kinds of small changes that will prepare us for the larger work of dismantling the systems that divide us.

And white women who are already doing this can encourage their friends to do the same.

ETA: I'm sorry if I'm coalition-building-splaining here.

[nini]

98. The point of that tweet is that white women can start going at the other white women

White women who are on the right side of issues need to start trying to get through to that 53% Show them what THEY are losing since they don't seem to give a shit what anyone else is going through.

That's what can be done.

[PunkinPi]

36. K&R

[BeyondGeography]

50. Zero wisdom in that tweet

Plenty mean-spirited and condescending though. A real political winner.

[EffieBlack]

53. "Mean-spirited?" Really?

Oh, that's right. I forgot. Black people aren't allowed to day "white people" and black women DEFINITELY aren't allowed to refer to "white women" because that's mean

Gotcha.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

56. Yes, black women speaking the truth are often seen as "angry" and "condescending."

When all it is is the truth.

[EffieBlack]

67. Indeed

[ismnotwasm]

88. Yup

Every time.

[SMC22307]

97. Condescending and so fucking naive.

Seriously, what group of people is going to believe it needs to be "saved" by another group of people?

Some DUers (and whomever wrote that ignorant tweet) seem to have a real problem acknowledging that anti-choice Republican women exist -- and vote. They in no way, shape, or form believe they need to be "saved." Even pro-choice Republican women (however few are left) are not going to embrace this idiotic notion of being "saved."

Indeed, a real political winner.

[BeyondGeography]

100. I'm glad Christine Blasey Ford finally got off her duff and stopped waiting for black women

to save her.

My pain is more legitimate than yours. In the suffering derby, you’re just a piker. It’s dehumanizing and it sends persuadables (yes, there is such a thing) running for the (Republican) exits. More important, it weakens the base. Welcome to loserville.

[SMC22307]

105. Ouch. But, yes, "persuadables ... running for the (Republican) exits."

How do people not grasp that? We have so much stacked against us: a *president who gleefully demonizes Democrats, right-wing media, scumbag religious leaders like Franklin Graham (and his flock), voter suppression, gerrymandering, Russians, God knows what else... why alienate white women? This is a really stupid fucking strategy... trying to get a group of people to admit weakness, flaws, etc. and the need to be "saved."

[WhiskeyGrinder]

111. I think part of the reason these discussions get so difficult is because some people are talking

about racial equality, and some are talking about winning elections for Democrats, and sometimes those two circles can overlap well, and sometimes they don't. It would be helpful for white women as a whole to determine why, as a voting group, they have broken for Democrats only twice since 1952 (in 1964 and 1996). I'm sure there are many reasons, but one of them, I would guess, is the fact that white women benefit from white supremacy, whether they are trying to dismantle it or not. Giving up privilege is hard -- very hard. There is much work to be done among ourselves and our own allies, and doing that work must not be seen as a mistake or a bad strategy.

[MountCleaners]

116. The Kavanaugh situation IS about race

The affluent old white boys network of prep schools, social circles, fraternities, sports and elite colleges, where they close ranks, defend each other, employ nepotism, and support racist right-wing politics is a system that works to exclude people of color and uphold a culture the devalues the contributions and voices of people of color. They promote and reward each other and inflate the qualification of their brothers and sisters. It's a system where people work together to defend their privilege. If there's anything white people can learn from it, they can learn of the culture of moneyed whites that truly runs the right-wing politics in this country.

Blasey Ford grew up in this culture and broke the rules in exposing a system in which racism and misogyny are TWO SIDES OF THE SAME COIN. You can't dismantle one without dismantling the other. It's no surprise that Georgetown Prep's yearbook had a group in it called the "Ridge Klux Klan" and that Kavanaugh has a history of racist statements and rulings. The right's culture is one of racism AND sexism.

It's not a case of "competing oppressions". In fighting racism = not just racist "attitudes" but racist systems and oppression, you are also attacking a system in which men's interests are put first.

If you're white and prioritizing sexism or only working on sexism, you're missing the big picture and your fight against structural inequality is incomplete and WON'T WORK. Justice for white women only is not a true and complete justice. YOU'RE NOT STARTING WITH A COMPLETE AND ACCURATE PICTURE OF THE SITUATION.

83% of black people and about 70% of Latinos did not believe or support Kavanaugh.

[JI7]

210. most black women believe dr. Ford. most white women support kavanaugh

[PubliusEnigma]

69. The Enemy laughs uproariously as you blindly attack your own allies.

Divide and divide again.
And they will always win.

[BumRushDaShow]

76. Not all of a kind are "our allies".

You see it right here in this thread.

[eleny]

80. Recommended

[Gothmog]

84. Great advise

[ismnotwasm]

86. This is exactly right

94% of black women who voted voted for Hillary Clinton.

What the fuck went wrong white women? Whiteness itself, internalized misogyny, unclaimed and unaddressed racism. The fact that “White” feminism is still a thing. Standpoint theory never went away and it’s a complete failure. As black women gain power, white women react in much the same way white men do to black men gaining power.

Far too many White people consistently deny this, they tout their good intentions, their fights against social injustice, never understanding that this is the least we can do, not the most. The most is figure out what’s wrong with us, our sisters, that we create and support a Trump. We need to do it in our own spaces. Black women have always fought. Sometimes we fight by their side, but Trump isn’t their creation.

Black people left DU in part because of rejections of the this very conversation add there were never that many to start with. This place is much poorer for it.

Black women are constantly invaded by “well meaning” white women who want to say, hey I’m with you, we are all women here, our fight is the same.

White women don’t worry their sons will come home unshot from the grocery store

White women don’t experience the subtle or overt racism every day on that visceral level. On that physical level



So yeah. We need to talk. Those who are harassing black women about their good intentions need to stop. That’s all this poster is saying.

[JustAnotherGen]

135. Adding - I don't think white women

Who voted for Trump - and who believed his "your son nonsense" have ever heard of Emmet Till.

They also don't realize that one of his murderers (the accuser) had admitted she lied and still walks free today.

This would NEVER would happen to THEIR son.

Never.

[ismnotwasm]

140. Yes

And Trump voters think that President Obama caused more racial divides, worsened race relations PERSONALLY.


What’s frustrating here is the deliberate blindness, admitting the destructive force of whiteness as a social norm should be a slam dunk. Has nothing to do with individual actions—but here we are. Again. What should turn into many, many serious conversations amoung whites of how whites lives and white spaces differ than those of people of color—How whiteness manifests, turns into this but not me shit show every time. UNLESS it’s the Cause de jour.

[58Sunliner]

89. Funny that you don't mention Tim Scott.

Oh that's right-he is a male.
As for the statistic-Again 53% of white women who voted-let's look at the numbers again. 26.5% of total votes, based on total % of registered voters, went to DT, mostly male, which would make the female white vote for DT, being generous, 11% of the eligible voters. Whites are 69-72% of population, women are 52% of that so 52% of 69-72% is 35.88-37.44% of total which is the approximate total white female vote but over 40% of America did not vote. Let's see-back to the original @ 11% of white women who voted for DT-more math, 35.88-11=24.88% of white women who did not vote for DT. Two thirds of white women did not vote for DT.
This is why math matters-and so do fair elections. I don't believe that the hacking was benign.

[EffieBlack]

90. Actually, I didn't mention ANY individual.

But, ok. I'll play.

I didn't mention Amy Klobuchar.

Ok. Your turn.

[MaryMagdaline]

93. The post is a call to arms to white women

Start working to convince other white women that white patriarchy needs to be shut down. Not to complain ONLY when a white professional woman is demeaned but every single time an unarmed black man is shot by a white police officer and every time a black woman is discriminated against.

If you are doing everything you can, there’s no need to take offense. If you are not doing everything, take heed.

[BeckyDem]

99. Recommend!

[LexVegas]

101. What about women that aren't white or black?

Do they exist?

[ismnotwasm]

102. I think the poster is responding to white women on her timeline

Every Black woman activist on Twitter I see has white women telling them—whitesplaining to them, about how they are allies, we’re all in this together etc, and then they’ll say some embarrassing shit that lessens the lives of black women. The response to THAT from other whites women is “not all white women” and while this is true, it’s not the right response.

[LexVegas]

108. The place to carry on Twitter beef is on Twitter.

A single tweet on DU drives a wedge between like minded people on this board.

[still_one]

106. Excellent OP. Ironicallhy, the same logical applies to the "drug" problem. It wasn't a problem

until it moved into the "white neighborhoods"

It takes a village

[MineralMan]

118. Black women and white women have being women in common.

White women, however, have privilege not available to black women. Recognizing that is crucial. Beyond being women, the common ground is not universal.

Thanks for posting that tweet. I'm sorry it generated some negativity from people who don't get the difference.

All women need to fight the misogynistic patriarchy. Not all women face racial bigotry as an added barrier. Recognizing what is the same and what is different is essential.

[boston bean]

120. That is crucial. I agree. But we do not have the power alone

To get our houses in order and make bigots not be bigots.

We all need eachother. And making broad swipes at allies who want the same change. Who understand. And make them seem they are not doing enough, something they cannot control themselves individually is absolutely ridiculous and not beneficial to the movement as a whole.

[LexVegas]

122. +1. nt

[MineralMan]

123. I think you're arguing against things not stated.

Truly.

[boston bean]

125. I don't think so, truly.

[MineralMan]

126. OK.

[libdem4life]

130. Indeed. In this fight, let us put aside modifiers on "woman"

We may not all be the same for many reasons. In fact we are all different in one sense, but the one battle is clear.

"I am woman, hear me roar"

[MineralMan]

134. There's more than one battle, though, see...

Some people are fighting more than one battle. Recognizing that is important.

[libdem4life]

137. Not referring to the battles...just laid them out in a post

as to the most egregious up right now. Basically Referring to the need to unite one gender.

[MineralMan]

139. Yes. Black women share one set of problems with white women.

However white women don't share the other problem with black women. Both problems are egregious. Both are universal. You're more affected by one of them, so you think it's more important. It's not. It's just different. You don't truly understand the other problem. Neither do I. I'm a white man. I support women in their battle against both problems. I recognize the differences, too.

[EffieBlack]

174. Not putting "modifiers" makes black women invisible and silent

Because in most discussions, "women" really means "white women" - especially when white women's interests diverge from those of black women.

[MineralMan]

215. +100

[LWolf]

144. Dear Ijeoma Oluo

No kidding. Who asked black women to save me? Not me.

You think right now is the first time white women have felt fear, anger, and pain? Think again. We've felt it all along, along with all other women.

Nobody saves me. I save myself. I will, though, stand in solidarity with any sisters who want to stand together.

[kcr]

146. Dr. Ford came from the same race, class and privilege as Kavanaugh

It afforded her little protection. They didn't hesitate to publicly shame and humiliate her and anyone who defended her and came forward with their own stories.

[MountCleaners]

151. It afforded her little protection because...

Her assault exposed the networks of mutual support that affluent powerful Republicans use to maintain their power.

[kcr]

158. It's more like

none of us, not even the most privileged, can expect justice. It's not just powerful, affluent Republicans that enjoy such support. Look at the abysmal conviction rates.

[MountCleaners]

164. She has no chance in hell

...of bringing an affluent prep school white kid with GOP connections to justice. She broke the rules of that network. She'd have a better chance if her allegation was against someone who wasn't deliberately protected. She was also attacked by someone who KNEW there would be no consequences to his behavior, who felt license to do this to her. Someone who was afforded the privilege - by virtue of his race, class and connections - of being frequently drunk and celebrating that in his yearbook.

[kcr]

170. Do you think women from other backgrounds accusing men of the same have better luck?

With a conviction rate of 1%?

[EffieBlack]

163. It afforded her more protection that.if she weren't a privileged white woman

I doubt that we'd have seen as many white men in the streets fighting and marching and protesting if it been a black woman. I also doubt.that the Republicans would have bother to even call her credible

[kcr]

165. People are in the streets because they don't want a justice seated who will overturn Roe

Only 1% of rapes result in a felony conviction.

[BumRushDaShow]

176. "doubt that we'd have seen as many white men in the streets...protesting if it been a black woman."

And we didn't. See Anita Hill where (and I had heard some stats on one of the MSNBC shows last week) -

Anita Hill's accusations did not hurt public support for Clarence Thomas in '91

By Grace Sparks

Updated 9:03 PM ET, Mon September 17, 2018

(CNN)In July 1991, more than half of Americans -- 52% -- said they would like to see the Senate vote in favor of Clarence Thomas serving on the Supreme Court, with 17% who said they would not want them to vote in favor, according to a Gallup/CNN poll.

Months later, after Anita Hill accused the judge of sexual harassment and testified about it on Capitol Hill, the number who said the Senate should vote to confirm had grown, with 58% who said yes, according to a Gallup poll. After his confirmation, in an ABC News / Washington Post poll, 62% of Americans said Thomas should have been confirmed compared to 34% who said he should not. More Americans told Gallup they believed Thomas -- 48% -- than Hill -- 29% -- after her testimony.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/17/politics/hill-thomas-kavanaugh-sexual-assault/index.html

And it wasn't until over a year later when people began to change their minds.

[Afromania]

147. I'm always late to these parties..... Anyway, this is the 100% truth following the election one of

Last edited Sun Oct 7, 2018, 11:14 PM - Edit history (2)

if not the very first excuse for why we lost was the minority turn out. I'll say now what I said then in that we cannot continue to be the bulwark against the worst impulses of the majority of white folk.Rather you should take those folks to task who for voted for clearly the worst possible fucking person they could ever vote for in any election, EVER. Instead, we got think piece after think piece explaining away what the majority of white folks did by pulling the lever/pressing the button for trump. We were told how they were really well meaning and kind, salt of the earth folks, who were just full of economic anxieties. Ironically this was all said with a straight face as if living in America while black and brown is a sunny day in Bermuda.

Now after two years on of the worst administration of in the lifetime of anybody alive. These same people are getting a kick out of having installed the worst possible candidate they could onto the supreme court. They are literally out there cheering trump on while he mocks the sexual assault survivor that came forward to testify against the dude they just installed. Meanwhile the trump administration economic policies are making things more expensive for them and everybody else. Nothing is deterring these people from their support and they are further doubling down on it with the majority of white people backing politicians just as disgusting as trump; if not worse. I mean, look at Roy Moore. That guy should have been completely drubbed in that election. Instead, Jones manage to just squeak by because of a big turnout from black women. It should have not have required black women to turn out in record number to keep a KNOWN PEDOPHILE from becoming a senator.

Ijelmoa and the OP is 100% right in that liberal and progressive white women are going to need to get 'conservative' white women to come down off that wall they are sitting on with trump and the republicans. Based on just raw population numbers and voting percentages. There are more than 2 times as many white women that could potentially have vote Democratic as there are ALL black women in the entire country. Additionally there are 2.5 to 3 times as many white women who voted for trump than there are TOTAL potential black female voters. Furthermore, there are more Hispanic women in the United State than there are black women. A mind-boggling 30% of them voted for the exact same republicans they are under fire from. It's never a question of why they aren't voting for their best interests. Somehow it's never a question or major talking point for the 'vote turnout concern trolls' after the election.

In any case, black women and black folks in general, by the numbers, shouldn't have to step up, tote the load and be the bulwark for the Democratic Party in every single election. The things the republicans want to do are disastrous for us all. Perhaps not in quite equal portions, but they are disastrous enough that they shouldn't be ignored by any group(s). Everybody should go should and vote on accordingly. However, if the blue wave somehow falls through the usual suspects will line right the fuck up to whine about how black people have so much to lose why didn't they turn out to vote. Why is it so important for us to vote as a group for the Democratic party anyway? I mean we are now a minority within the minority and will probably continue to slide down the list as more folks fro other areas arrive here. Why doesn't either the majority or minority majority catch the call to step up and protect the Democratic voting block?

TLDR; The tweet is 100% correct in that people who are far more numerous than black women are going to have to step up here and make sure trump and the gop get voted out.

[BumRushDaShow]

204. THIS

My thought has always been the disdain for the continual stream of articles about "black turnout", literally trying to squeeze blood from turnips, when referencing a group that is only 13% of the population, and totally absolving themselves from even trying to get an additional 1% of their own non-voters out to the polls.

[SMC22307]

212. Conservative women are not coming down off of any wall.

The anti-choice movement has been building for DECADES -- they're getting what they want and I guarantee they do not feel the need to be "saved." The tweet couldn't be more wrong. The Republican women in my life are doing QUITE well financially -- what exactly do you think they have to lose? Sure they're brainwashed by right-wing media and religion, but they're not suffering. Quite the opposite.

Hispanic voters are not a monolith. I'm coworkers with two guys -- one from Nicaragua and the other Cuba -- and they are HARDCORE Republicans (think Sandinistas and Communists). Many are Catholic and anti-choice. They believe they came to this country through "appropriate channels" and have zero sympathy for refugees trying to cross the border.

Obama lamented that minorities and young'uns sit out the midterms (see the disastrous 2010)… THAT has got to change. I'm truly hoping the Emma's and David's of this country come through in November.

[EffieBlack]

219. All of this!

Thanks, Afromania!

[backtoblue]

156. We must hold on to each other. Empower each other.

I live so far in the deep woods, that there are white folks who have never interacted very much with people of a different skin, religion, or political views.

I am grateful that i attended school in a neighboring district where most of my friends were black, Hispanic, and Asian. Having a diverse childhood made me a better person as an adult.

I haven't been out of my house much since I was assaulted a few years ago. I have withdrawn and become a hermit. It's hard sometimes just to breath, let alone go out and socialize.

However, local injustices affecting POC, women, and the poor have made me so upset that I cannot wither away in my self any longer.

Tomorrow I am meeting with local women of all skin color to address these issues. I'm so nervous that I've thrown up today. This will be my first time to publicly speak or meaningfully interact since I testified against my attacker.

I've posted some of my experience here on DU and sharing with you all has given me a bit of courage.

I dont know the author, but this poem sticks with me.
We are each of us angels with only one wing
We can only fly by holding onto one another



Shout out to all my sisters on DU! We are stronger together. Open dialogue is key. Open hearts is the path forward. Open love and respect for humanity is the force to drive us toward equality.

[Socal31]

166. Every single woman that I have had the pleasure of having in my life.....

Mother, Girlfriends, platonic friends, teachers, etc, with varying levels of melanin, have been extraordinarily unique. I guess I am too simple to understand how it is possible or constructive to broad-brush or homogenize the thoughts/actions of any demographic, particularly women.

Using such identifiers in a headline might attract clicks/comments/etc, but at least with me, it distracts from any argument or point that you are trying to convey, which I have every reason to believe is valid.

[EffieBlack]

173. We talk about women and men all the timr

But for some reason, when we try to break it down within the groups - especially by race when there are clear and disnltinct differences I. Views and approaches - suddenly, we're getting all divisive.

When Doug Jones was elected, we were absolutely BOMBARDED with "WOMEN are responsible for the win" articles, reports and commentary. I didn't see "not ALL women/MOST women didn't vote for him/MEN voted for him TOO, you know! " pushback.

But the minute we corrected the record and pointed out that it was BLACK women who were responsible for the victory, whilr most white women voted for Moore, suddenly folks tried to accuse us of being divisive and unfair to white women.

[Socal31]

193. This is not a hill for me to die on, so I won't wade any deeper than this response.

Correcting the record from "Women were responsible" to "Black women were responsible", although they are not mutually exclusive, seems like a valid data point for discussion.

As I said above, I was not commenting on the validity of the point being made in the OP. But the premise in the title is that there are two groups of women that can be either addressed or spoken for in their entirety, and the end of the post assumes that one group needs to modify its behavior or "get their house in order".

I guess I am a little sensitive to seeing the type of fratricide that has hurt all of us in the past, and this close to an election. I am not a woman, but I know damn well how badly we need all of us on the same team to get back into power.

Maybe I am old, but this quote in particular, just sits funny. That's all I am saying, enjoy the rest of your Sunday!


"But for some reason, when we try to break it down within the groups - especially by race when there are clear and disnltinct differences I. Views and approaches - suddenly, we're getting all divisive."

[Coventina]

175. Thank you Effie.

This is so true, and I'm sorry you have taken heat for it.

[HipChick]

203. Effie is one of the brave ones on DU bringing the truth..

Even if certain folks don't want to hear it..

[joshcryer]

177. Black women are the best, most consistent, voting bloc.

More people should look to them as an example.

[EffieBlack]

181. Case and point

Black women put Doug Jones in the Senate - and then we put his feet and his ass to the fire and got him to come out as a no on Kavanaugh weeks ago.

And then there's Susan Collins of Maine.

'Nuff said.

You're welcome.

[jberryhill]

228. "In"

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/case+in+point

[JHan]

202. There's a reflexive denial going on when "white people" are mentioned.

You don't see the same when other types of generalizations are made.

I do think white progressive women are doing their bit. I read an interesting article a few weeks ago, showing the ways middle-aged white women are driving the resistance. There are a lot of important critiques about white feminism which are valid, emphasizing the importance of women just listening to each other and not minimalizing each other's concerns. Examples of this minimization were evident right after the election e.g. Don't tell me an election wasn't fueled by cultural and racial animus when I saw the ugliness unfold in real time and don't excuse or dismiss racial discrimination. However, the resistance is made up of strong diverse voices, including white women.

For a long time, I've thought about that 52% statistic of white women going for Trump. Factoring in the margin of error, the number could be higher or lower given that exit polls aren't really known for their accuracy.

Still, anything over 40% in favor of Trump and Republican policies currently, is still too high. The disparity between support for Kavanaugh among whites and support for Kavanaugh among other demographics is telling but not cut and dry. As Steve Bannon said , educated Republican Women ( I read that as educated white women) are "lost". Keep in mind too, that Clinton out-performed Trump among College Educated White Women. From CNN

"In an interview on Monday, Barnes said that one reason college-educated white women are more likely to perceive discrimination is because they are more exposed than blue-collar women to occupations and workplaces where they are competing with men. Women without college degrees, she notes, often "tend to get tracked into gender-segregated labor markets" such as home health care, where they are performing jobs held primarily by women and thus competing mostly against other women for advancement. By contrast, she says, college-educated women are often competing directly against men.

"When women and men are tracked into similar careers ... that's when it becomes a little more evident the role that discrimination plays in the economy and in people's career opportunities," she says.

Trump himself raised the salience of those views, Barnes believes, because he faced such widespread allegations of sexual harassment and misbehavior, including from his own words in the "Access Hollywood" tape. Just as Trump's open appeals to white racial anxieties raised the importance of racial attitudes in predicting support in the election, so too did the controversies surrounding his behavior toward women increase the electoral relevance of views about women's place in society and traditional gender roles.

"Voters were never asked to weigh in on these issues before," said Barnes."

And from the L.A Times With growing support from women, Democrats poised for major gains in midterm, new poll shows



but ( to repeat what I said further up), the challenge here is an old one. It's been fought for over 100 years and that is getting white people to see their whiteness as secondary to other challenges in their lives - whether it be their working-class status or injustices such as gender discrimination. We still have a lot of work to do to tackle attitudes that divide us, and that work is social justice oriented. The mantle of social justice activism is not just for PoC, but whites as well if we really want better outcomes for all. As Ijeoma said, we black women can't be the savior of everyone else.

[BumRushDaShow]

205. Thanks for posting that!

I have been hearing of polls during the year showing that trend but this is the most recent of them (and even done just before Dr. Ford's testimony). So hopefully that shift of sentiment will get harnessed up and down the ballot (without the knee-jerk subconscious last minute "I'll give him just one more chance" cop-out).

Time's up ladies!

[JHan]

209. I think Republican strategists depending on a bump of support after Kavanaugh..

are putting up a front, I don't think that bump is there (Hopefully I'm right)

I also don't buy that there's this deep well of outrage at Kavanaugh's treatment among white males, as the CNN piece points out there's a shift even among college-educated white men. I mean it's still bad - the gender and racial polarization exist but there's a lot of overstating going on by strategists.

The shift also has to be sustained - it has to last past midterms to the presidential election, and it's critical a Dem President retains Congress in his/her first term and gets two terms.

2016 was really a watershed moment for voters to wake up and be serious about their civic responsibilities. No one can save us but ourselves.

[BumRushDaShow]

214. I think 2016 will go down as a bigger fluke than 2000

because of the lopsided nature of the popular vote that was not in the "right places". I think that is why it makes it even more maddening but it took more than what a Karl Rove tried in 2012, to do it - i.e., Russia.

Getting high turnouts in blue state suburbs is "easy" but that's not where the turnout is needed for electoral college purposes. So this is something that really needs to be looked at in red states - i.e.,. most of the larger ones DO have suburbs too.

In some of the closely contested red and purple states (i.e., ones that went for Obama in 2008) like IN and IA and NC - these all have urban areas and suburbs. Even MO was a close loss by Obama (literally a fraction of 1% - 0.13%) meaning the POTENTIAL is there - including in places in and around St. Louis (see Ferguson for folks finally waking up) and Kansas City.

[JHan]

217. great analysis +++

[EffieBlack]

207. Interesting, there's been discussion right in this thread about what more black people can do

with nary a peep of protest about "divisiveness" or "racism." But say the words "white women" and suggest THEY can do more and all hell breaks loose.

[JHan]

213. It's predictable. White progressive women are doing their bit in a big way..

.. however, Trump doesn't get elected in a vacuum. That he's president means we have a wider problem.

And I know the challenges among white progressives who have trump supporting family members. Some of my friends have cut off family connections over Trump, or challenge it when they can.

[JHan]

216. And another thing...One of the ways white progressives can really help ...

... is to reject attempts to sidetrack social justice issues in favor of economic issues as if they're not intertwined. The dichotomy between econ justice and social justice was the biggest farce of 2016.

And the gag is the people who were pushing that head were demonstrating the type of triangulation they're always criticizing democrats for.. you know "don't talk about race so much you'll alienate white voters" what the ever living fuck is that about? How the hell did talking about an issue which impacts millions of americans become problematic - what are they saying, that white americans can't handle any concerns that don't directly revolve around them? It's like a big F U to the democratic base when the expansion of civil rights and protections benefit ALL Americans.

[lunamagica]

206. K&R for visibility.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

220. MARRIED white women. Apparently getting married to a white male turns your brain to mush.

Guess that movie "Stepford Wives" was truer than we thought.

A a SWF, I resent being lumped in with those idiots. Have nothing in common with most of them.

[GusBob]

224. Ima bout as white bread as you get. I know a lot of white GOP married women

I am also a gentleman so i shall say no more about them