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beastie boy

(9,056 posts)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:52 PM Oct 2018

A few good reasons to vote for Manchin in November:

Chuck Schumer, Senate Majority Leader
Kamala Harris, Chair, Judiciary Committee
Elizabeth Warren, Chair, Environment and Public Works Committee
Dick Durbin, Chair, Appropriations Committee
Tammy Duckworth, Chair, Armed Services Committee
Bernie Sanders, Chair, Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs Committee
Corey Booker, Chair, Rules and Administration Committee
Beto O'Rourke, Chair, Select Committee on Ethics

Etc, etc. You get the idea.

Yes, voting for Manchin is very counter-intuitive. But please, let's not have a repeat of 2016!

Pragmatism before emotions.

47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
A few good reasons to vote for Manchin in November: (Original Post) beastie boy Oct 2018 OP
Elect Democrats. Salviati Oct 2018 #1
We have to realize there are three types of Democrats and only one type of Republican only my opinion Oct 2018 #29
Party in power today is not reflective of the GOP in the past dwayneb Oct 2018 #38
I agree 1000 % only my opinion Oct 2018 #43
We can't afford party purity right now. Not in deeply red states. Funtatlaguy Oct 2018 #2
Joe Manchin may not be what we like but he's what we got. In It to Win It Oct 2018 #3
Thank you! NurseJackie Oct 2018 #4
Gotcha. dchill Oct 2018 #5
Of course. Then primary him when we get the chance manor321 Oct 2018 #6
You realize that he didn't switch Parties when he could have in 2015...or 2017? brooklynite Oct 2018 #12
Primarying an incumbent weakens him for the general. It's not helpful, pnwmom Oct 2018 #24
K & R LAS14 Oct 2018 #7
Lets dump the POS and put our efforts elsewhere. nt Snotcicles Oct 2018 #8
By all means. let's! But not this November. beastie boy Oct 2018 #18
Those are EXCELLENT reasons! CaliforniaPeggy Oct 2018 #9
Backed into a corner on this one... toddwv Oct 2018 #10
Yea, yea, yea. LisaL Oct 2018 #11
Feinstein has seniority on Judiciary Retrograde Oct 2018 #13
The list is purely hypothetical. beastie boy Oct 2018 #19
Yeah, vote for someone who completely betrayed the Democratic Party and all women. PoindexterOglethorpe Oct 2018 #14
How exactly to you propose getting a "real Democrat" in his place when the election is in one month OhioBlue Oct 2018 #15
Post removed Post removed Oct 2018 #21
The state of W VA voted for Trump by 68% to Hillary's 26%. It is a miracle pnwmom Oct 2018 #25
If you primary him with someone more liberal, they will lose. WV isn't going to elect anyone to the OhioBlue Oct 2018 #31
Hopeless. yardwork Oct 2018 #35
Three questions beastie boy Oct 2018 #17
yeah, if it means Chuck Schumer would be majority leader it makes ALL THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE because JI7 Oct 2018 #30
The primaries are over. yardwork Oct 2018 #34
Glad I don't have to make that choice.I have no problem with anyone voting for Autumn Oct 2018 #39
And, one other VERY important reason. GoCubsGo Oct 2018 #16
If I lived in West Virginia, I certainly would. sandensea Oct 2018 #20
Yes, then be ready to primary him in six years. That could give an opponent plenty.... JoeOtterbein Oct 2018 #22
I'm glad I don't have to vote for him. mountain grammy Oct 2018 #23
I wouldn't be surprised. scipan Oct 2018 #44
the problem with Dems pretending to be repugs is that they don't bring in progressive votes elmac Oct 2018 #26
Glad That I don't live in ... LenaBaby61 Oct 2018 #27
This article is everything underthematrix Oct 2018 #28
In a 51-49 senate, he will flip Thunderbeast Oct 2018 #32
He's their ace in the hole. n/t scipan Oct 2018 #45
its not counter-intuitive now. He's better than a republican. It was damn counter-intuitive and JCanete Oct 2018 #33
We need all of the Democrats possible Gothmog Oct 2018 #36
Almost none of us here on DU live in West Virginia. MineralMan Oct 2018 #37
Keep Manchin around... DAMANgoldberg Oct 2018 #40
Post removed Post removed Oct 2018 #41
Heidi Heitkamp progressoid Oct 2018 #42
This kdmorris Oct 2018 #47
Red State Democrats Can Do Better Than Joe Manchin scipan Oct 2018 #46
 

only my opinion

(32 posts)
29. We have to realize there are three types of Democrats and only one type of Republican
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 01:07 AM
Oct 2018

There are Democrats who are progressive both economically and socially
There are Democrats who are progressive economically and moderately conservative socially
There are Democrats who are moderately conservative economically and socially progressive

The Republicans are regressive both economically and socially

Democrats are a big tent party built on cooperation and tolerance

Republicans are a small tent party built on purity and intolerance

Democracy requires Democrats

Fascism requires Republicans

May we never become the mirror image of Republicans

dwayneb

(766 posts)
38. Party in power today is not reflective of the GOP in the past
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 09:50 AM
Oct 2018

That's a pretty good description. Generally agree with you but the party in power today is not reflective of the GOP in the past. Trump and the neo-fascist Right essentially hijacked the old Republican party. Republicans from 1950 - 1980 were right of center for the most part, with some prominent radical exceptions. The neo-fascist hard Right began co-opting the GOP back in the 80's starting with the Moral Majority and proceeding through Rush Limbaugh, Fox News and destruction of the Fairness Doctrine.

brooklynite

(93,834 posts)
12. You realize that he didn't switch Parties when he could have in 2015...or 2017?
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:40 PM
Oct 2018

But maybe beating him up will help him decide?

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
24. Primarying an incumbent weakens him for the general. It's not helpful,
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:49 AM
Oct 2018

if we want to have a Dem in the seat, to have him attacked both by Democrats and Republicans.

And W VA is a state that went for Trump by 68% over Hillary's 26%. Any Democrat that could satisfy DUers doesn't have a prayer of winning in the general.

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,296 posts)
9. Those are EXCELLENT reasons!
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:09 PM
Oct 2018

Pragmatism before.........way before emotions.

Seeing those names as Leader and Chairs! Wow. Makes me very happy.

And this is how we do it.

Retrograde

(10,068 posts)
13. Feinstein has seniority on Judiciary
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:53 PM
Oct 2018

but any of the current Dems on that committee would be fine with me.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,746 posts)
14. Yeah, vote for someone who completely betrayed the Democratic Party and all women.
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 11:05 PM
Oct 2018

Makes sense.

Makes me happy I don't live in his state.

Remind me again why it's okay to support him? Yeah, I read the OP and wouldn't it be better to have a real Democrat in his place? If someone steps forward and wants to primary him, then what?

OhioBlue

(5,126 posts)
15. How exactly to you propose getting a "real Democrat" in his place when the election is in one month
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 11:17 PM
Oct 2018

between him and a Republican?

If he loses, this is what happens:

1. Republican holds the Senate seat for 6 years and runs again with the power of incumbency in a very Red State.
2. We lose a seat that brings us closer to majority control, power to stop horrible Trump pics, power to control legislation and committee hearings.
3. The State of WV loses a Democratic voice. He may be a Conservative Dem but he still carries the voice of a Democrat when he speaks at graduation ceremonies, chamber of commerce dinners, and other gatherings.
4. The WV State Democratic party is weakened through the loss of a high level elected official that helps with party infrastructure and fundraising.

Edit to add: He is the absolute best we are going to do in a Statewide election in WV at this time. It will take a generation of organizing to change. The demographics in WV are not changing like other States.

Response to OhioBlue (Reply #15)

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
25. The state of W VA voted for Trump by 68% to Hillary's 26%. It is a miracle
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:51 AM
Oct 2018

that any Dem managed to be elected Senator. The reason he was elected is because he was a popular Democratic governor first.

No other Dem in that state has a chance for the Senate. If we kneecap him in a primary, we'll end up with someone far more rightwing than he is.

OhioBlue

(5,126 posts)
31. If you primary him with someone more liberal, they will lose. WV isn't going to elect anyone to the
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 01:20 AM
Oct 2018

left of Manchin in a Senate race.

beastie boy

(9,056 posts)
17. Three questions
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 11:22 PM
Oct 2018

How do you propose to get a real Democrat in his place after the primaries are over?

If you don't vote for him, do you think you will ever get a chance to have a real Democrat in his place?

What about Chuck Schumer's chances of becoming Majority Leader in '19?

On the other hand, if you are talking 2020, I am listening!

JI7

(89,172 posts)
30. yeah, if it means Chuck Schumer would be majority leader it makes ALL THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE because
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 01:09 AM
Oct 2018

Schumer would atually have had power to stop Kavanaugh from even coming up for a vote. and the committee chair would have the power also.

i don't live in West Virginia but i know it's full of right wing bigots who voted for Trump in huge numbers so i don't expect much from there that would be better than manchin.

Autumn

(44,743 posts)
39. Glad I don't have to make that choice.I have no problem with anyone voting for
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 09:58 AM
Oct 2018

or supporting him, I also have no problem with anyone who decides that they can't vote for him or support him. Actions have consequences, and he like everyone else will have to live with them.

sandensea

(21,526 posts)
20. If I lived in West Virginia, I certainly would.
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:17 AM
Oct 2018

But let me tell you: I'd definitely be voting against the alternative, rather than for him.

JoeOtterbein

(7,697 posts)
22. Yes, then be ready to primary him in six years. That could give an opponent plenty....
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:44 AM
Oct 2018

...of time to beat him. That is the way it should be done. Inside our own house. Not in the political streets with the rethugs.

mountain grammy

(26,568 posts)
23. I'm glad I don't have to vote for him.
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:47 AM
Oct 2018

it would be hard. I think, if the Senate ends up tied, he'll switch and screw us.

scipan

(2,295 posts)
44. I wouldn't be surprised.
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 07:42 PM
Oct 2018

Anyone in WVA should consider this. He seems like he will do what is in his best interests and fk his party, always.

Still better than the alternative, I guess.

 

elmac

(4,642 posts)
26. the problem with Dems pretending to be repugs is that they don't bring in progressive votes
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 01:01 AM
Oct 2018

and repugs would never vote for them anyway. That just leaves independents which is just a name for people too stupid to know what they want. I could never understand why Democrats vote republican in red states, it just doesn't help them. I wouldn't bet any money on him winning against any serious challenge.

Thunderbeast

(3,377 posts)
32. In a 51-49 senate, he will flip
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 01:39 AM
Oct 2018

No question.

The GOP will offer anything. Committee chairmanships, bury West Virginia in federal cash, coal powered Navy.

He will be a Republican before noon on November 7.

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
33. its not counter-intuitive now. He's better than a republican. It was damn counter-intuitive and
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 04:15 AM
Oct 2018

problematic to vote for him over his challenger in the primary, all under the auspice promoted here that his challenger wouldn't be able to win in the GE and we needed Kavanaugh for moments like this one, AND that primary challenges themselves were BAD.

MineralMan

(146,189 posts)
37. Almost none of us here on DU live in West Virginia.
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 09:43 AM
Oct 2018

We could not vote for Manchin, even if we wanted to. I would not want to. I would vote for him, of course, since he is a Democrat and we need every Democratic Senator to create a majority.

If I lived in West Virginia, which I don't, I would be working nonstop to try to find a more suitable Democratic candidate for the Senate. someone who could win in that red state, but who would never even think of voting for someone like Kavanaugh.

I do not live in West Virginia, however, and am very, very glad I do not.

DAMANgoldberg

(1,278 posts)
40. Keep Manchin around...
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 11:12 AM
Oct 2018

hope he doesn't switch parties during that term. Watch Richard Ojeda. If he wins in WV-3, there could be a real primary challenger come 2024. Otherwise, that's as good as it gets there.

Support Phil Bredesen in TN (not exactly liberal, but right for TN)
Kyrsten Sinema in AZ (again, liberal in the Gabby Giffords manner, right for AZ)

There are other conservadems out there. We have always had them, Wyche Fowler, Howell Heflin, Sam Nunn, Lawton Childs (FL-Gov), Fritz Hollings, mostly Zell Miller, the list goes on.

Response to beastie boy (Original post)

scipan

(2,295 posts)
46. Red State Democrats Can Do Better Than Joe Manchin
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 07:56 PM
Oct 2018
But Manchin’s vote should call old party strategies into question. If the Democratic Party can’t count on its own senators for votes as morally pivotal as the Kavanaugh confirmation, its big tent might just be too big. Its tolerance for conservative members might not be as pragmatic as it appears, either. Since Trump took office in 2016, a number of Democrats to Manchin’s left have performed surprisingly well so-called red states, winning some unexpected primary elections and polling well against Republican candidates. The Democratic candidate for Florida governor, Andrew Gillum, has been campaigning on Medicare for All and still leads Republican Ron DeSantis by four points in a recent Florida Southern College poll. In Georgia’s gubernatorial race, progressive Stacey Abrams has locked Republican Brian Kemp in a dead heat. In other races, recent polling suggested that progressive congressional candidates Jess King and Randy Bryce, running in Pennsylvania’s 11th congressional district and Wisconsin’s first congressional district respectively, have closed gaps with their Republican opponents to single digits. And in one of the year’s most surprising contests, Democrat Beto O’Rourke has trapped Ted Cruz in a race for his political life.

Even in West Virginia, support for Trump doesn’t necessarily guarantee support for down-ballot Republican candidates, or for conservative politics as a category. Trump won 68 percent of the vote in 2016. But less than half of the state’s registered voters actually voted for Trump. The president won 489,671 of the state’s registered voters, out of a 2016 total of 1,274,887. In the state’s conservative third congressional district, Democrat Richard Ojeda has managed to turn his race against Republican Carol Miller into a true toss-up. That’s partly due to Ojeda’s particular idiosyncrasies: Like many of his would-be constituents, he voted for Trump, though it’s a decision he says he now regrets. As a state legislator, his unyielding support for the teachers’ strike that gripped the state in February and March earned him an energized following that very well could put him in office. Politically, Ojeda now has more in common with Bernie Sanders than he does with Joe Manchin – and that tilt to the left has hardly harmed his prospects.


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/10/red-state-democrats-can-do-better-than-joe-manchin.html

I don't disagree with OP but the idea that we are stuck with Repub lite senators like him is short-sighted and wrong, I think. Hope he draws some really good primary opponents next time (IF he is still a dem).
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