General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA few good reasons to vote for Manchin in November:
Chuck Schumer, Senate Majority Leader
Kamala Harris, Chair, Judiciary Committee
Elizabeth Warren, Chair, Environment and Public Works Committee
Dick Durbin, Chair, Appropriations Committee
Tammy Duckworth, Chair, Armed Services Committee
Bernie Sanders, Chair, Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs Committee
Corey Booker, Chair, Rules and Administration Committee
Beto O'Rourke, Chair, Select Committee on Ethics
Etc, etc. You get the idea.
Yes, voting for Manchin is very counter-intuitive. But please, let's not have a repeat of 2016!
Pragmatism before emotions.
Salviati
(6,002 posts)Then Elect Better Democrats.
Repeat as desired.
only my opinion
(32 posts)There are Democrats who are progressive both economically and socially
There are Democrats who are progressive economically and moderately conservative socially
There are Democrats who are moderately conservative economically and socially progressive
The Republicans are regressive both economically and socially
Democrats are a big tent party built on cooperation and tolerance
Republicans are a small tent party built on purity and intolerance
Democracy requires Democrats
Fascism requires Republicans
May we never become the mirror image of Republicans
dwayneb
(766 posts)That's a pretty good description. Generally agree with you but the party in power today is not reflective of the GOP in the past. Trump and the neo-fascist Right essentially hijacked the old Republican party. Republicans from 1950 - 1980 were right of center for the most part, with some prominent radical exceptions. The neo-fascist hard Right began co-opting the GOP back in the 80's starting with the Moral Majority and proceeding through Rush Limbaugh, Fox News and destruction of the Fairness Doctrine.
only my opinion
(32 posts)This is why I say Republicans are a small tent party built on purity and intolerance
Funtatlaguy
(10,855 posts)In It to Win It
(8,139 posts)...and we need the numbers.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)dchill
(38,315 posts)manor321
(3,344 posts)If he hasn't already switched parties by then.
brooklynite
(93,834 posts)But maybe beating him up will help him decide?
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)if we want to have a Dem in the seat, to have him attacked both by Democrats and Republicans.
And W VA is a state that went for Trump by 68% over Hillary's 26%. Any Democrat that could satisfy DUers doesn't have a prayer of winning in the general.
LAS14
(13,749 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)beastie boy
(9,056 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,296 posts)Pragmatism before.........way before emotions.
Seeing those names as Leader and Chairs! Wow. Makes me very happy.
And this is how we do it.
toddwv
(2,830 posts)The other choice is this shitstain of a human being:
LisaL
(44,962 posts)He is almost a republican but better than an actual republican alternative.
Retrograde
(10,068 posts)but any of the current Dems on that committee would be fine with me.
beastie boy
(9,056 posts)Just to illustrate what's at stake.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,746 posts)Makes sense.
Makes me happy I don't live in his state.
Remind me again why it's okay to support him? Yeah, I read the OP and wouldn't it be better to have a real Democrat in his place? If someone steps forward and wants to primary him, then what?
OhioBlue
(5,126 posts)between him and a Republican?
If he loses, this is what happens:
1. Republican holds the Senate seat for 6 years and runs again with the power of incumbency in a very Red State.
2. We lose a seat that brings us closer to majority control, power to stop horrible Trump pics, power to control legislation and committee hearings.
3. The State of WV loses a Democratic voice. He may be a Conservative Dem but he still carries the voice of a Democrat when he speaks at graduation ceremonies, chamber of commerce dinners, and other gatherings.
4. The WV State Democratic party is weakened through the loss of a high level elected official that helps with party infrastructure and fundraising.
Edit to add: He is the absolute best we are going to do in a Statewide election in WV at this time. It will take a generation of organizing to change. The demographics in WV are not changing like other States.
Response to OhioBlue (Reply #15)
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pnwmom
(108,925 posts)that any Dem managed to be elected Senator. The reason he was elected is because he was a popular Democratic governor first.
No other Dem in that state has a chance for the Senate. If we kneecap him in a primary, we'll end up with someone far more rightwing than he is.
OhioBlue
(5,126 posts)left of Manchin in a Senate race.
yardwork
(61,408 posts)beastie boy
(9,056 posts)How do you propose to get a real Democrat in his place after the primaries are over?
If you don't vote for him, do you think you will ever get a chance to have a real Democrat in his place?
What about Chuck Schumer's chances of becoming Majority Leader in '19?
On the other hand, if you are talking 2020, I am listening!
JI7
(89,172 posts)Schumer would atually have had power to stop Kavanaugh from even coming up for a vote. and the committee chair would have the power also.
i don't live in West Virginia but i know it's full of right wing bigots who voted for Trump in huge numbers so i don't expect much from there that would be better than manchin.
yardwork
(61,408 posts)Autumn
(44,743 posts)or supporting him, I also have no problem with anyone who decides that they can't vote for him or support him. Actions have consequences, and he like everyone else will have to live with them.
GoCubsGo
(32,061 posts)We don't want a "Senator Patrick Morrisey." He is vile.
sandensea
(21,526 posts)But let me tell you: I'd definitely be voting against the alternative, rather than for him.
JoeOtterbein
(7,697 posts)...of time to beat him. That is the way it should be done. Inside our own house. Not in the political streets with the rethugs.
mountain grammy
(26,568 posts)it would be hard. I think, if the Senate ends up tied, he'll switch and screw us.
scipan
(2,295 posts)Anyone in WVA should consider this. He seems like he will do what is in his best interests and fk his party, always.
Still better than the alternative, I guess.
elmac
(4,642 posts)and repugs would never vote for them anyway. That just leaves independents which is just a name for people too stupid to know what they want. I could never understand why Democrats vote republican in red states, it just doesn't help them. I wouldn't bet any money on him winning against any serious challenge.
LenaBaby61
(6,965 posts)West Virginia.
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)Thunderbeast
(3,377 posts)No question.
The GOP will offer anything. Committee chairmanships, bury West Virginia in federal cash, coal powered Navy.
He will be a Republican before noon on November 7.
scipan
(2,295 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)problematic to vote for him over his challenger in the primary, all under the auspice promoted here that his challenger wouldn't be able to win in the GE and we needed Kavanaugh for moments like this one, AND that primary challenges themselves were BAD.
Gothmog
(143,998 posts)MineralMan
(146,189 posts)We could not vote for Manchin, even if we wanted to. I would not want to. I would vote for him, of course, since he is a Democrat and we need every Democratic Senator to create a majority.
If I lived in West Virginia, which I don't, I would be working nonstop to try to find a more suitable Democratic candidate for the Senate. someone who could win in that red state, but who would never even think of voting for someone like Kavanaugh.
I do not live in West Virginia, however, and am very, very glad I do not.
DAMANgoldberg
(1,278 posts)hope he doesn't switch parties during that term. Watch Richard Ojeda. If he wins in WV-3, there could be a real primary challenger come 2024. Otherwise, that's as good as it gets there.
Support Phil Bredesen in TN (not exactly liberal, but right for TN)
Kyrsten Sinema in AZ (again, liberal in the Gabby Giffords manner, right for AZ)
There are other conservadems out there. We have always had them, Wyche Fowler, Howell Heflin, Sam Nunn, Lawton Childs (FL-Gov), Fritz Hollings, mostly Zell Miller, the list goes on.
Response to beastie boy (Original post)
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progressoid
(49,824 posts)Also in a tough race in a red state. She did the right thing.
Manchin is a coward.
I can't vote for her, either, but I did give money to her campaign.
scipan
(2,295 posts)But Manchins vote should call old party strategies into question. If the Democratic Party cant count on its own senators for votes as morally pivotal as the Kavanaugh confirmation, its big tent might just be too big. Its tolerance for conservative members might not be as pragmatic as it appears, either. Since Trump took office in 2016, a number of Democrats to Manchins left have performed surprisingly well so-called red states, winning some unexpected primary elections and polling well against Republican candidates. The Democratic candidate for Florida governor, Andrew Gillum, has been campaigning on Medicare for All and still leads Republican Ron DeSantis by four points in a recent Florida Southern College poll. In Georgias gubernatorial race, progressive Stacey Abrams has locked Republican Brian Kemp in a dead heat. In other races, recent polling suggested that progressive congressional candidates Jess King and Randy Bryce, running in Pennsylvanias 11th congressional district and Wisconsins first congressional district respectively, have closed gaps with their Republican opponents to single digits. And in one of the years most surprising contests, Democrat Beto ORourke has trapped Ted Cruz in a race for his political life.
Even in West Virginia, support for Trump doesnt necessarily guarantee support for down-ballot Republican candidates, or for conservative politics as a category. Trump won 68 percent of the vote in 2016. But less than half of the states registered voters actually voted for Trump. The president won 489,671 of the states registered voters, out of a 2016 total of 1,274,887. In the states conservative third congressional district, Democrat Richard Ojeda has managed to turn his race against Republican Carol Miller into a true toss-up. Thats partly due to Ojedas particular idiosyncrasies: Like many of his would-be constituents, he voted for Trump, though its a decision he says he now regrets. As a state legislator, his unyielding support for the teachers strike that gripped the state in February and March earned him an energized following that very well could put him in office. Politically, Ojeda now has more in common with Bernie Sanders than he does with Joe Manchin and that tilt to the left has hardly harmed his prospects.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/10/red-state-democrats-can-do-better-than-joe-manchin.html
I don't disagree with OP but the idea that we are stuck with Repub lite senators like him is short-sighted and wrong, I think. Hope he draws some really good primary opponents next time (IF he is still a dem).