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It has been reported by some in the media that there are a million more jobs than workers to do them (Original Post) kentuck Oct 2018 OP
They do -- they want and have had it both KPN Oct 2018 #1
Wages are so stagnant Horse with no Name Oct 2018 #2
Nothing new here. TomSlick Oct 2018 #3
Slight correction GulfCoast66 Oct 2018 #4
Excellent point! whathehell Oct 2018 #6
The need for workers is unrelated to the point you make grantcart Oct 2018 #8
I studied this a long time ago...When they talk about those "available jobs" that are open... Stuart G Oct 2018 #5
Not millions but tens of millions grantcart Oct 2018 #7

KPN

(15,646 posts)
1. They do -- they want and have had it both
Mon Oct 22, 2018, 08:45 PM
Oct 2018

ways. Fuck them — they want to enrich themselves at the expense of middle class Americans and at the same time get their votes by sowing hatred. Fuck them again!

Horse with no Name

(33,956 posts)
2. Wages are so stagnant
Mon Oct 22, 2018, 08:54 PM
Oct 2018

I know that in my position, wages aren't really higher than they were 25 years ago and if you adjust for inflation, chances are they are lower.
The thing that really gets me though...is the cost of daycare! OMG. How can any parent afford to work?
That is nuts.

TomSlick

(11,098 posts)
3. Nothing new here.
Mon Oct 22, 2018, 08:55 PM
Oct 2018

This country has always depended on immigrant labor. The Republicans are both hiring undocumented workers and using them as a bogeyman to frighten MAGAs.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
4. Slight correction
Mon Oct 22, 2018, 08:56 PM
Oct 2018

There are millions of jobs unfilled at the wage employers want to pay.

Republicans love to talk supply and demand until the market demands higher wages. Then they bitch about not being competitive without mentioning the increased percentage of corporate income going to stockholders rather than workers.

Someone less lazy than can find the FDR quote about businesses that have employees who can’t live a decent life do no good for American and deserve to fail.

whathehell

(29,067 posts)
6. Excellent point!
Tue Oct 23, 2018, 12:45 AM
Oct 2018

American wages started stagnating in the middle to late Eighties.

I remember that Bill Clinton's Labor Secretary, Robert Reich, wanting him to make Wage Stagnation an issue in the '96 election. He didn't and Reich left.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
8. The need for workers is unrelated to the point you make
Tue Oct 23, 2018, 01:52 AM
Oct 2018

1) Of course demand for workers will bring up wages, not arguing that point

but

2) There significant areas of the economy that require entry level jobs which cannot be sustained with ever increasing wages. Take picking fruit for example. Lets say that fruit pickers can earn $ 15 per hour and with the other costs generally fixed generates an apple that is retailed at $ 1.00 per apple. At this rate all of the apples are picked. Increase the rate to $ 20 per hour and lets say the apple increases to $ 1.30 and so on.

As the price of the apple increases the sales declines and the number of apples go down. Just as the market works for supply and demand of workers it works for products.

The fact is that there are plenty of people who are willing to work for an entry level position that a US worker generally prefers not to do at a wage that would sustain the production here (rather than losing our apple production to say China). In the rest of the world legal temporary migrant workers work in established programs that provide legal employment, health, good wages and do not impact native worker job markets.

For example 100% of the agricultural workers now working in Israel come from Thailand. It would take me too long to explain how it developed but everyone is happy. The Thais work and they return and they work in better conditions and get paid much better than had they stayed in Thailand.

The caravan that is coming (and there are tens of thousands that are coming without a caravan) don't want to live here. They want to work here send money back home and return to live in their home countries. Unfortunately the violence that is now endemic hits them in two ways, it is unsafe to live there and the lack of safety undermines a healthy economy.

2) The other reason that we need immigrants is that our fertility rates are declining (pls see 7 below).

If you are in your 30s or 40s and want to sharply increase immigration so you will get an increase in wages you might find that a) there is a ceiling to how much your position will increase to before it is not economically viable (like the apple picker) or you will get a short term increase in wages but find that you will have to soon start paying much higher taxes to sustain the trans generational benefits that our system is based on.

The current trends, without a significant increase in immigrants, means that we will soon be following Japan in Europe into general economic malaise.

Stuart G

(38,427 posts)
5. I studied this a long time ago...When they talk about those "available jobs" that are open...
Mon Oct 22, 2018, 08:58 PM
Oct 2018

Those are "special skill" jobs..such as (not real) designing advertising for a newspaper..(just an example)..
Those open jobs require skills most people do not have. There would have to be a program to train employees (yes there are such programs, but they require lots of time) but many unemployed workers need to find a job as quickly as possible to pay bills...so they cannot afford the time..(often a year or two) to get the training.
It is a "catch 22" kind of thing..

....Yes there are programs that provide salary while an employee learns a job, but those are limited. Often special skills are needed to qualify for those kind of training jobs. Like, a person already needs to be able to fix computers, to work in a "fix computer industry".. There were job training programs, .that paid, but those are very few and far apart..as they say. Most employers want at least partially trained, or totally trained individuals if they are going to offer a "reasonable salary"

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
7. Not millions but tens of millions
Tue Oct 23, 2018, 01:31 AM
Oct 2018

They are needed for two important reasons

1) There are tons of entry level jobs that are not being taken as the economy has matured and native Americans disdain many forms of labor that used to be routine. Growing up in Washington State it was a great privilege to get a job picking fruit in the summer because you were outside and you didn't get paid by the hour but by the pound. We loved it and we made a ton of money. Now nobody born in the US stoops to pick fruit. Twenty five percent of the apples in Washington went unpicked last summer.

There are other jobs that are considered to low for Americans to take. My father died when I was in college and it was relatively expensive. I got elected SB President which took care of my tuition and I converted a room in the Student Union Building into an apartment. I made a deal with the maintenance department to let me be the student union janitor and I got up at 6 in the morning and cleaned the SUB for 2 hours a day and that generated the $ 3.00 a day I needed for food.

There was nothing unusual about any of the above. From the time you were 16 you wanted to get a job so you could operate your own car. Your own car meant that you were much more likely to be able to get yourself a date, so nobody looked down on getting an entry level job, even the richest kids took regular jobs.

2) Our social benefits, especially medicare and social security are in part trans generational programs that require current workers to pay for those that are older just as they paid for the ones ahead of them. There is a positive balance but it hasn't paid for all of the benefits that will go to the generation that paid into it.

The current aging population of the developed countries is creating a "death cycle" that will eventually cause tremendous imbalance to the social benefit system.

Having a population at around 30 gives the right balance between producers and those at the retirement end that require more health services and social security. When the average age hits 40 problems start to increase and additional taxes are needed to maintain revenue levels. This means that there is less money for capital to grow the economy and less money for consumer spending which means that there is less tax revenue coming in and the cycle continues until the level of benefit cannot be maintained.

Countries like Japan (47) and S Korea (41) are facing limited options because their culture makes it very difficult to open up to immigrants. Europe huddles around 40.

The US is starting to rise and it is concentrated by region so while some regions are OK others are aging fast

https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2017/comm/median-age.html

The median age of the US is gradually following Europe

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/us-median-age-hits-all-time-high-38-record-86248-are-100-or-older


The plain fact is that as countries develop birth rates drop.

The US fertility rate is now lower than replacement levels.



https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/17/611898421/u-s-births-falls-to-30-year-low-sending-fertility-rate-to-a-record-low

The birthrate fell for nearly every group of women of reproductive age in the U.S. in 2017, reflecting a sharp drop that saw the fewest newborns since 1987, according to a new report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

There were 3,853,472 births in the U.S. in 2017 — "down 2 percent from 2016 and the lowest number in 30 years," the CDC said.

The general fertility rate sank to a record low of 60.2 births per 1,000 women between the ages of 15 and 44 — a 3 percent drop from 2016, the CDC said in its tally of provisional data for the year.

The results put the U.S. further away from a viable replacement rate – the standard for a generation being able to replicate its numbers.




These facts have been well known but a few weeks ago I saw another round of articles explain in detail how these declining fertility rates will undermine future growth and prosperity and how the increase aging of the population will put stress on funding social security and other benefits in both Forbes and the Wall Street Journal.

It was the same day that the news broke about the US government stripping children away from their parents and us initiating a campaign of terror against the very workers we need.
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