White House anti-socialism report inadvertently makes a case for single-payer

[BeckyDem]

Is this great or what? lol
The Trump administration says this chart is a case against single-payer. Actually, it’s a case for it.



By Sarah [e-mail]

Oct 23, 2018

Earlier today, the White House released a paper titled “The Opportunity Costs of Socialism.” Weirdly, it contains a chart that actually makes a pretty decent argument for single-payer health care.

The chart compares wait times for seniors in countries like Canada, the United Kingdom, Switzerland, and the United States. It purports to show that seniors in single-payer countries wait much longer than those here in the United States.


It all looks pretty clear cut: Places like Canada and Norway have long wait times in their single-payer systems, whereas we here in the United States have very short wait times.

Except, here’s the key thing it leaves out: America’s seniors are essentially in a single-payer system. The vast majority of Americans over 65 get coverage through Medicare, a government-run health care plan.


** It is true that the Canadian health care system does struggle with wait times. When you read through international research, you routinely see that it has some of the longest wait times in the developed world.

But it is also true that this isn’t a fundamental feature of a single-payer health care system. If you hop across the border and look at our own Medicare program, you see that it’s actually possible to build a single-payer system with short wait times. Most of it just depends on how much you pay doctors; higher pay is going to entice more professionals into the medical space.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/23/18014026/trump-socialism-single-payer

[tymorial]

1. Many beneficiaries have supplemental insurance to fill gaps

Until those gaps are filled we are still talking about a system that is insufficient to cover seniors let alone everyone else. Medicare as an example for single payer is a poor model.

[BeckyDem]

2. We can construct it any way we want. The point to get past is the bullshit reasons we should

keep it for profit. That is the beauty of what Trump failed to do here, he is not advancing the idea its worse. He knows there is no way to bring down the costs with a for profit model.


For profit has to end, from there, bring all reasoned approaches and we can have our own system.

[mr_lebowski]

3. Additionally, the WHOLE system, i.e., for everyone, is not single-payer in the US

Of course I'm a fan of single-payer, but it's a bit 'inaccurate' ... to compare the two systems.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

4. You know a Medicare for all system wouldn't be required to stick to the same exact coverages? Yes?

Why do people bring up today’s coverages as if that is exactly what we would do in a Medicare for all?

It would be muck easier to cover Medicare’s current customers - the really sick and really old - if we could include really young and really healthy people in the pool.

I don’t know what it is that makes people think Medicare, as it stands today, is the best it can ever get?

Our insurance system is a complete upside down clusterfuck. Private for profit insurance sucks all the profit out of us while we are young and healthy then pawns us off on the government when we really need coverage.

Then we wonder, gee how can we pay for this? And, to add insult to injury, we make old people buy more for-profit insurance.

I’ll never forget the look on my neighbor’s mother’s (who was visiting from England) face when I explained our system and the supplemental insurance fuck job. She didn’t understand making pensioners pay MORE after they retired.

[tymorial]

7. I didnt state that it should stay the same.

I said it was a poor model and shouldn't be used as a guide.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

8. Oh I thought you said

“Many beneficiaries have supplemental insurance to fill gaps

Until those gaps are filled we are still talking about a system that is insufficient to cover seniors let alone everyone else. Medicare as an example for single payer is a poor model.”

The only thing you cited for Medicare being a “poor model” was the coverage gaps - which are easily fixable.

[tymorial]

13. Oh ffs.

This is ridiculous. I am so over arguing splitting hairs.

[moondust]

5. I'm a VA patient.

Basically a single-payer system. I had to call last week to set up an appointment for a regular checkup. Appointment was scheduled for 10 days later. No problem.

Wait times largely depend on location, facilities and, as mentioned, how well staff are paid to get the job done.

I suspect part of the resistance to single-payer is due to greedy conservatives who want their MONEY to have God-like powers that will get them whatever they want whenever they damn well want it, by God!

[BeckyDem]

6. +1 And we can make it much better. Its the for profit model that must be

abandoned. GOP are thieves, plain and simple.

[Vinca]

9. Re the "wait" times in Canada. If you have something urgent you get right in. If you have an

elective surgery you might have to wait. There's no reason we have to view healthcare as a McDonald's drive-thru order. Sometimes things cannot be (and don't need to be) immediate. The one thing socialized medicine does is guarantee you will get your surgery. In this country, no money, no medical care.

[BeckyDem]

11. Thanks for the clarity.

[tanyev]

10. Lengthy waits happen here, too.

I have good insurance, live in a large suburban area with good medical facilities, and several of my doctors have 1-2 month wait times for routine appointments.

[BeckyDem]

12. That is a long wait.