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GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
3. They can and will send troops to provide logistical support
Fri Nov 2, 2018, 09:59 PM
Nov 2018

President Obama did the same. Communication, medical, aviation. Not at all unheard of.

They are refusing to actually police the boarder. So no infantry to meet the asylum seekers. After Tuesday you will hear nothing of this.

TomSlick

(11,033 posts)
4. Did President Obama send active duty forces or National Guard?
Fri Nov 2, 2018, 10:09 PM
Nov 2018

It's an important distinction under the Posse Comitatus Act.

I agree this will cease to be a "crises" on Wednesday next.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
5. Yes he did. Once national guard troops are nationalized they are national troops
Fri Nov 2, 2018, 10:24 PM
Nov 2018

But they never had interaction with immigrants.

Let’s not downplay the fact that President Obama was pretty aggressive with inforcing immigration laws. Because Democrats support immigration laws. And he got beat up on DU for it.

But he was not inhumane. He NEVER demonized nor failed to speak of the immigrants in a loving manner. He never separated families. He followed amnesty laws in a humane manner.

Most importantly he continually pushed for comprehensive immigration reform that provided a path for citizenship.

If early reports are correct that is the same support the military is willing to give now. If that is not the case I will be the first one here admitting it.

This situation is a real test of the military to follow the law the are bound to. Not the president who temporarily is in control.


TomSlick

(11,033 posts)
6. Understood, when National Guard troops are "federalized", they become federal troops.
Fri Nov 2, 2018, 10:34 PM
Nov 2018

However, Presidents can request governors to deploy National Guard troops - and even defray the costs - without federalizing them.

My understanding is that the National Guard units sent to the border so far are under Title 32 - not Title 10 - orders. It's a subtle distinction that only a lawyer - maybe even only a military lawyer (or retired one) - could love. However, it is an important distinction.

I really don't know the answer to my question whether President Obama sent any Title 10 forces to the border but I certainly hope he did not.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
7. Your over my head here!
Fri Nov 2, 2018, 10:40 PM
Nov 2018

I feel sorry for the military now. They do not want to provide less than they did for president Obama even though they know that they are being used for political purposes. But I trust they will not give more. As in active duty troops rounding up immigrants.

I know a good many people in the military. They did not sign up to oppress poor Mexicans.

TomSlick

(11,033 posts)
8. Sorry.
Fri Nov 2, 2018, 10:51 PM
Nov 2018

This question - and my conviction the President is violating the Posse Comitatus Act - has been bugging me. I understand the PCA is pretty obscure law, but it was drummed in my head as a 1LT at the Army JAG School. I also remember as a more senior JAG having to stand in a commanding general's office to explain why he couldn't grant a request from the local civilian police for help in law enforcement - no matter how good it would have been for public relations.

As I said, maybe a question only a military lawyer would love.

TomSlick

(11,033 posts)
11. Almost as much fun
Fri Nov 2, 2018, 11:04 PM
Nov 2018

as the time a read a commanding general - my commander - his Article 31 UCMJ rights (think Miranda rights) before I started an interview ordered by his commander. Now that was exciting.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
12. So is JAG standing strong now?
Fri Nov 2, 2018, 11:08 PM
Nov 2018

I have friends, now retired I assume, that went to military Academies. They took this shit seriously. They went post Vietnam. Early 80s. Have lost touch with them. They would resign rather than follow unlawful orders.

TomSlick

(11,033 posts)
13. I have been retired from the Army for some years ago.
Fri Nov 2, 2018, 11:20 PM
Nov 2018

I am nevertheless confident the JAG Corps will stand its ground. I suspect the reason the DoD has refused the Homeland Security request that the military "augment" law enforcement on the boarder is that either the Army/Marine JAGs or the DoD General Counsel said "no."

You aren't a JAG to be a sycophant.

My concerns about using Title 10 forces in support roles on the boarder is way-on more nuanced.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
14. We are now down to super skinny reading on my IPhone
Fri Nov 2, 2018, 11:24 PM
Nov 2018

So I will stop.

You should post more often.

You have value knowledge to share.

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