This message was self-deleted by its author

[bupkus]

This message was self-deleted by its author (bupkus) on Fri Sep 28, 2012, 09:16 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[russspeakeasy]

1. And except for right here, it will go unreported.

[unc70]

15. WARNING: Do not trust Roger Stone on anything

This may well be true, BUT I would be very slow to get too worked up about it. You really need to know about Stone to understand the risk with anything he is involved in. Don't just read the sanitized version of things on Wiki; it misses or distorts most everything.

[freshwest]

18. +1,000. He's going directly to the trough, the Libertarian Party Koch created.

[CabCurious]

52. +1 this is bait

Dems need to avoid getting caught up in any claims of illegal behavior unless there are hard sources.

[formercia]

2. ...and Holder will ignore it, hoping there will be a good job waiting for him.

Play nice and the 'Boys' will take care of you. Play Hardball and flip Hamburgers for the rest of your life.

[CabCurious]

53. Without facts, he SHOULD ignore it.

[Vogon_Glory]

3. I'm Reminded Of An Old Rhyme

Just what we all love and admire. An independent fellow chosen by the presumptive presidential nominee for his character, his independence, his truthfulness, and his lack of any ties to any special interests.



I'm reminded of an old rhyme.

"I am His Majesty's dog at Kew. Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you?"

[calimary]

36. Love that! I never heard that one before. But MAN does it ever fit!

"I am His Majesty's dog at Kew. Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you?"


"Old" rhyme, nothing! As relevant as 15 minutes ago.

[Vogon_Glory]

42. Our Republic Is Again Threatened By Oligarchs

Our Republic is again threatened by oligarchs, "malefactors of great wealth" as (comparatively) progressive Republican US President Theodore Roosevelt said a bit over 100 years ago. The $100 million campaign donation (Could it be prosecuted as a bribe?) shows just how much power the wealth of one man or one family has to bend or even undermine the political processes of what was once a healthy democratic, representative republic.

[rfranklin]

4. If I were Romney I would be worried...

because the Koch brothers are only a heartbeat away from the Presidency.

[goclark]

5. Why does this not surprise me?

[Jack Rabbit]

8. Why would the Koch bros want to be president?

First of all, they don't want to take a pay cut.

Second, their grand scheme is to make the constitutional government irrelevant while they act as dictators.

This election is going to be fun and the best part is going to be watching those two Birch backgrounded bastards and others like them throw money down the toilet after Romney, Ryan and the Tea Party. I hope you spend it all, guys.

[Kip Humphrey]

9. The Kochs have staked their fortunes by buying up production facilities that were grandfathered when

the Clean Air and Clean Water acts were passed in the Seventies. The "grandfathering" exclusions expire in 2015. When that happens, the Koch Bros face shutting down over 2/3rds of their businesses since they have never once upgraded any of these facilities (paper mills, chemical plants, oil refineries) to come into compliance with the Clean Air & Water acts.

Without extensions, the expiration of grandfathering will bankrupt their businesses.

Now, do you understand?

[malokvale77]

12. Bingo

[Lucky Luciano]

17. This I did not know. interesting. nt

[surrealAmerican]

20. With all the money they're spending ...

... to avoid upgrading their facilities, would it really cost that much more to just comply with regulations?

[nxylas]

49. Probably not, but they are fanatics

They'd rather spend a billion on getting environmental regs overturned than a million on upgrading their factories, to comply with a law which they believe shouldn't apply to them.

[Amak8]

21. Got a link?

[progressivebydesign]

24. Every voter should research the John Birch Society, to get an insight on Kochs and the Tea Party.

They are the John Birchers, II. And will do whatever it takes to keep as much money as they possibly can. Their ideology is not pure.. other than pure greed and racism. Their Dad was a major player in the formation of the John Birch Society, and their ideology and M.O. has been pretty much the same.. and the JBS was flat out racist, as are the Koch Bros.. I have no doubt that's another reason why they hate the President so much, and why their Tea Party has been curated through overt racism.

They need to be exposed to the average voter, but Fux News will never bite that hand that feeds them.

[Jack Rabbit]

40. Why? Because they are right wing ideologues

Like Paul Ryan, perhaps they can't let go of the simplistic moral universe of Ayn Rand after reading Atlas Shrugged as teenagers.

I'm not saying that Mr. Humphreys doesn't have a point, but I'd like to see a link, too. I've known objectivists and Birchers in my time. Birchers don't want to be confused with facts and talk nonsense about Ike being a Communist and fluoridation an anti-American conspiracy, but objectivists can dovetail everything into a neat, logical argument as long as one accepts the notion that man is by nature only an aggressive, acquisitive animal and that society is little more than an idea cooked up by the weak to enchain the strong.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

64. "Kochtopus"

How very apt.

[chknltl]

22. New news to me, thanks.

So what % of their financial assets do you suppose they are pouring into this campaign in order to prevent bankruptcy? I know it can not be too burdensome for them but this is still a LOT of money spent on a risky at best venture. Personally I hope this expenditure 'breaks' them when romney/ryan fail.

[Volaris]

56. I personally think Romney and his backers are going to spend a billion dollars just to lose....

and I think it was Rockefeller (when asked "Why spend so much money on politics?&quot who said "I would gladly spend half my fortune to protect the other half."

We need a new Roosevelt (either one would do at this point), someone who COMES from that kind of money, and cares more about the American People and their Government THAN that money. That's the reason it worked so well the first time, because both Roosevelt's understood that system and knew how to wreak havoc on the jerk-offs perpetrating it. It's why they were hated so much by the wealthy in America, because they knew how to be a dangerous to those who had wealth.

[FraDon]

62. important quote, similar ruthlessness – but, wrong person and time

In 1934, Smedley Butler said this, quoting one of the financial backers of the Business Plot.

The Business Plot was an alleged political conspiracy in 1933. Retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler claimed that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans' organization and use it in a coup d'état to overthrow United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler as leader of that organization. In 1934, Butler testified to the Special Committee on Un-American Activities Congressional committee (the "McCormack-Dickstein Committee&quot on these claims. In the opinion of the committee, these allegations were credible. No one was prosecuted.

[Flatulo]

29. Wow, I didn't know that. Tanks for putting it out here. nt

[BlueToTheBone]

30. Wow! That is incredible information!

You should start a thread with just this. It needs to be spread far and wide. Of course, it makes perfect sense. Meanwhile, they are stripping Kansas of any social services. How does that fit in?

[Fire Walk With Me]

32. Revelatory. Definitely goes to motive.

[Panasonic]

34. They will be bankrupt

Either way.

They are already morally and ethically bankrupt. Let's just let them be physically bankrupt. Either now or in 2015.

[Zalatix]

50. WOW. I did not know that.

Do you have any links for this? I know a few fence-sitters that this would knock off the fence like a cannonball...

[NJCher]

60. copywriters

When that happens, the Koch Bros face shutting down over 2/3rds of their businesses since they have never once upgraded any of these facilities (paper mills, chemical plants, oil refineries) to come into compliance with the Clean Air & Water acts.

I would love to see how the writers dealt with that in their corporate annual report!


Cher

[tblue37]

27. The poster's point, I believe, is that having bought the VP,

the Koch's can eventually fully own the POTUS if Romney wins and then conveniently (for the Kochs) fails to survive, thus leaving the POTUS position to be filled by the wholly owned Koch VP.

[Jack Rabbit]

37. If Mitt has a spine, he hasn't shown it yet

He's toadied to the Tea Party (i.e., the Kochs) all through the primaries and now can't even tout his own success with health care reform in Massaschusetts. Then he picks Ryan, in spite of the risks.

The Kochs have nothing to complain about except his poll numbers.

[KansDem]

6. Wow!! Just think what they could've bought with $500 million!

They'd better break open their piggy bank next time since it appears $100 million doesn't buy much these days...

[gkhouston]

14. Thread win!! n/t

[Ikonoklast]

7. Libertarians wasting their money, I love it.

They actually believe that they can buy this election. They can't win over voters with their ideology of greed, so they have to try other means.

For the most part American voters reject Libertarians and their nonsense, or there would be scads of them in elected office.

[lunatica]

10. Are they going to demand a refund when they see what they bought?

[Cali_Democrat]

11. You know, this reminds me of one of those prison shows on MSNBC....

where gangs pass prison prostitutes between themselves. Usually a gang or gang member will pay another gang to have access to a male prostitute while in prison.

In this case, the Koch brothers and Romney are the gangs engaging in the transaction and Ryan is the prostitute passed around like a piece of meat.

[SunSeeker]

13. That is the only thing that explains the Ryan pick.

I can hear the conversation now:

"But David, what if he turns off voters with his Medicare voucher plan?"

"Don't worry about it Mitt, just say the opposite, that it is Obama who is cutting Medicare, and I'll give you ALL the money you need to keep pounding that until it sticks."

[Berlum]

16. There you have it

Republican Family 1% Scumbag Values. As usual. It's all about money -- for them.

[DallasNE]

19. Romney Had To Rush Out Ryan

To force Harry Reid's story on Romney not paying income taxes for 10 years off the front pages and that has caused a number of mistakes to happen, including the timing of a Koch pledge to start a $27 million ad buy 4 days before the Ryan announcement. Now we learn that was only a down payment (as was suspected). My comment last Monday on this very subject. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1124138

If people are serious about the rule of law these kinds of things cannot be allowed to stand.

[progressivebydesign]

25. Okay.. so how MUCH are they offering to FLIP the ticket??? And are they sabotaging Romney for Ryan?

That is starting to creep into my mind... are THEY the ones pushing the editorials and the "rumors" that Ryan be on the top of the ticket??

Is Romney being stabbed in the back by the Koch Bros after taking Ryan on for cash??? Think about it.. he takes on Ryan, even though everyone around him said he shouldn't. This comes out that the Koch Bros (and I bet Sheldon Adelman which is why Ryan went to see him almost immediately,) paid off Romney to get Ryan on board. NOW.. "conservatives" are pushing to flip the ticket. And Romney seems to be caught with his pants down repeatedly.

Reminds me of the story about the scorpion and the turtle... where the turtle agrees to transport the scorpion across the river, just as they're both near the other side, the scorpion stings him. And the turtle is incredulous and asks him why.. the scorpion said "this is what I do, I'm a scorpion. why did you trust me?"

Maybe Romney is just a VESSEL for Ryan via Koch and Adelman....

[Mapletonian]

57. I suspect something similar...

The ticket will remain the same, but if elected, Romney has no intention of serving a full term, if any. It's too much hard work.

He will resign, making Ryan President.

Yuck.

[mike dub]

63. Rmoney got almost no bump in the polls by picking Ryan...

...and I don't see FauxNews or GOPers in general flocking to Ryan as the high-savior. So even if they flipped the ticket to Ryan for president, I don't think Ryan would save the ticket. e.g., the GOP still might Lose come November. If their goal truly is winning, they should broker the convention- flush both the Rmoney and Ry*n turds down the crapper.

[malaise]

26. I posted that it was part of the Kochcaine racket

Ding ding...I was right.
Please America make them lose.

[WI_DEM]

28. My god, the money the GOP is going to spend in Sept and October will be unbelievable.

[WestSeattle2]

31. So Romney is Ryan's pimp, and the Koch's are the john? Jeez,

only in the republican party is this considered moral and ethical.

I apologize in advance for anyone hurling at the vision that thought conjures up.

[lindysalsagal]

33. Roger makes some good points about Ryan not being a conservative at all:

http://stonezone.com/

“Meanwhile the idea of Ryan as a radical is laughable. Ryan put forth a budget proposal which did nothing to curtail Social Security and military spending. His famous budget allows the deficit to continue to grow. Ryan has worked almost his entire adult life (the last twenty years) cashing a government check in D.C. Ryan supported the auto and bank bailouts, voted for the Troubled Asset Relief Program in 2008 and for increasing the debt ceiling in 2011. Ryan voted for the Iraq War resolution in 2002, keeping troops in Iraq indefinitely, against withdrawal of U.S. troops from the Balkans in 1999 and for the authorization for use of military force against Afghanistan in 2001. He also voted for the re-authorization of the Patriot Act in 2006 and 2011 and for the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012 which allows the federal government to arrest and incarcerate a US citizen without bail, charges or a trial.

The idea of Paul Ryan as a libertarian is a joke. Ryan is a big government, Washington DC Republican who votes to fund foreign interventionism and the erosion of our civil liberties. Ryan began his political career as an acolyte of one of my heroes, Rep. Jack Kemp. Yet Ryan has wandered far from Kemp's genuine concern about the poor and disadvantaged. Ryan has become more of a faux deficit hawk and less of a pro-growth proponent. “

BTW: I sent this to Rachel Maddow: I suggest more of us do that so the interns will pick up on this. (Subject has to be Rachel Maddow)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10285339/?__utma=5875948.1935036110.1345315327.1345315327.1345315327.1&__utmb=5875948.1.10.1345315327&__utmc=5875948&__utmx=-&__utmz=5875948.1345315327.1.1.utmcsr=(direct)|utmccn=(direct)|utmcmd=(none)&__utmv=5875948.|8=Earn

[liberal N proud]

35. We knew that Ryan was not Romney's choice the day it was announced.

[Quantess]

38. Interesting.

[spanone]

39. that's our political system today...fucked up.

[ProSense]

41. Well, they had

to get something for that $100 million.

Serious Allegation: Koch Brothers Bought Ryan’s Nomination for $100 Million.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/18/1121598/-Koch-Brothers-Bought-Ryan-s-Nomination-for-100-Million-Violation-of-Federal-Election-Laws

Mitt's unwillingess to release his tax returns should be a disqualifier.

He's a greedy pig and an opportunist who would sell the country to the highest bidder.

Mitt's Taxes: Its about National Security, not how much he paid
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021145518


It's about both!

[Overseas]

44. just as I thought.

[Popsoda]

45. Gah!

[Incitatus]

46. It does what it's told

Or else it gets the hose again

[AnnieBW]

47. Told ya so!

I said when Ryan was announced that the Kochs bought his nomination. He's Kochsucker #1.

[McCamy Taylor]

48. I knew it.

No political consultant would have chosen him, so it had to be a rich person (with no political sense at all) promising lots of super pac money.

[babylonsister]

51. So koch bought a VP for the wifey; how quaint. nt

[babylonsister]

59. Just YUCK for so many reasons. nt

[tanyev]

54. Here's hoping Mitt's a great big money pit.

[renie408]

58. Who needs the MSM any more?

So what if the MSM doesn't pick it up? Or if it isn't verified? We have been running with the Romney tax thing and there is no corroboration there.

The one thing I have noticed about social media is that if something gets put up by enough people, it becomes accepted wisdom in no time. That is the key to advertising, isn't it? Make sure that people see your product several different times in different contexts and after a few repetitions, your brand sticks in their head.

This is going on my wall and I know several of my friends will pick it up. Remember the shampoo commercial? "If I tell two friends and they tell two friends and so on and so on...."

[MrScorpio]

61. Any journalist thinking of following this story...

Should harken back to the time honored words of Admiral Ackbar, "It's a trap!"

[Smilo]

65. Knowing the players

it is more than likely that is true.

The Kochs are desperate to rule America and it seems there is no limit to how much they will spend.