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Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:14 PM

I took my car in for service yesterday. Had an interesting (brief) conversation...

This is just an indication of how people don't think things through.

After consulting with the service personnel we determined that I needed to leave my car overnight so the parts could be ordered and the repairs done today.

I took a seat in the waiting area until someone at the facility was free to run me home. There was some political stuff on the TV....I wasn't paying attention. I started reading a book I had with me.

So the man next to me started ranting about "welfare" and how he knew a woman (a single mother) who had 6 children, some of them, at least, having different fathers. He said this family group was getting $1000. per month in food stamps and he thought that was an exhorbitant sum.

Well, first of all, who your father is shouldn't make any difference as to whether you're allowed to eat. But that's rather beside the point. I took a scrap of paper out of my bag and was going to do a 'back of the envelope' calculation on this.

Just then, one of the mechanics showed up and said he was available to take me home. I couldn't very well ask him to wait, because he was on the clock. So I left. When I got home I did a calculation:

$1000 divided by 7 (mom and 6 kids) = $142.00 and change/person/month. Divide 142.00 by 30 days and you get approximately $4.73 per day. For 3 meals. How easy is it to eat on $4.73 per day?

I wish I'd had time to explain this to the man sitting next to me. But you see how the propagandists succeed in turning us against one another while the banksters steal our taxes, pension funds etc.

It's an ongoing struggle.


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Reply I took my car in for service yesterday. Had an interesting (brief) conversation... (Original post)
truth2power Aug 2012 OP
reflection Aug 2012 #1
Berlum Aug 2012 #9
Ikonoklast Aug 2012 #12
reflection Aug 2012 #13
barbtries Aug 2012 #68
pnwest Aug 2012 #79
Lydia Leftcoast Aug 2012 #38
proud2BlibKansan Aug 2012 #40
jmowreader Aug 2012 #60
proud2BlibKansan Aug 2012 #61
backwoodsbob Aug 2012 #2
OverBurn Aug 2012 #3
unc70 Aug 2012 #30
JHB Aug 2012 #34
CrispyQ Aug 2012 #4
n2doc Aug 2012 #45
kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #56
jsr Aug 2012 #5
Courtesy Flush Aug 2012 #6
brewens Aug 2012 #78
formercia Aug 2012 #7
Blanks Aug 2012 #8
Courtesy Flush Aug 2012 #14
flamingdem Aug 2012 #10
dixiegrrrrl Aug 2012 #16
2pooped2pop Aug 2012 #17
Hamlette Aug 2012 #11
JesterCS Aug 2012 #21
Hamlette Aug 2012 #43
coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #22
CrispyQ Aug 2012 #46
Hamlette Aug 2012 #57
meanit Aug 2012 #54
barbtries Aug 2012 #70
lunatica Aug 2012 #15
SheilaT Aug 2012 #18
hunter Aug 2012 #31
CrispyQ Aug 2012 #47
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #19
just1voice Aug 2012 #20
okieinpain Aug 2012 #23
FirstLight Aug 2012 #24
okieinpain Aug 2012 #50
IggleDoer Aug 2012 #25
smaug Aug 2012 #28
okieinpain Aug 2012 #52
YvonneCa Aug 2012 #55
okieinpain Aug 2012 #59
Webster Green Aug 2012 #29
okieinpain Aug 2012 #51
haele Aug 2012 #73
billky Aug 2012 #26
LuckyLib Aug 2012 #27
truth2power Aug 2012 #36
Green_Lantern Aug 2012 #32
Fumesucker Aug 2012 #33
Green_Lantern Aug 2012 #62
Fumesucker Aug 2012 #64
Green_Lantern Aug 2012 #69
truth2power Aug 2012 #35
Green_Lantern Aug 2012 #63
truth2power Aug 2012 #71
Green_Lantern Aug 2012 #72
druidity33 Aug 2012 #37
Green_Lantern Aug 2012 #65
druidity33 Aug 2012 #75
Green_Lantern Aug 2012 #80
NNN0LHI Aug 2012 #48
Green_Lantern Aug 2012 #66
treestar Aug 2012 #58
Green_Lantern Aug 2012 #67
treestar Aug 2012 #74
Amak8 Aug 2012 #39
Odin2005 Aug 2012 #41
Doremus Aug 2012 #42
GeorgeGist Aug 2012 #44
BarackTheVote Aug 2012 #49
Lydia Leftcoast Aug 2012 #53
2on2u Aug 2012 #76
BlueStreak Aug 2012 #77

Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:17 PM

1. I'd bet a sizeable sum

that he knew no such person, either.

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Response to reflection (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:36 PM

9. Bingo

This is analagous to the alleged "welfare cadillac" BS Repubbies have been lying about for decades. Republicans HATE the idea of following Christ's injunction to feed the hungry and clothe the naked. They never say it, but it is clear they actually reject almost all of what Christ taught.

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Response to reflection (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:07 PM

12. Yep, he's a liar. He knows no such person.

I had a similar experience once, except I asked the guy for the name and address of the family, as I knew a place that was hiring that had on-site daycare and could offer the woman a job.

He started sputtering that he didn't actually know her *personally*, he heard about her from someone else who said they knew this mythical welfare scammer.

I told him he was full of it.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #12)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:11 PM

13. Good one. I think I'll start asking for names also. n/t

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:43 PM

68. man you're quick on your feet

i would have never thought to do that. i'm going to try to remember it though!

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #12)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 10:07 AM

79. yup, adopting that tactic here, too! brilliant!

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Response to reflection (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 10:56 PM

38. There's a regular poster on the Minneapolis Star-Tribune website who claims to be the manager

of a Section 8 apartment building full of "welfare cheats."

I've asked the poster why s/he doesn't report these "cheats," since s/he has such up-close and personal knowledge (note: this person admits to listening to right-wing talk radio during his/her 30-minutes each way commute--so the Section 8 management job is a sideline?)

My guess is that the poster probably is not a Section 8 housing manager, but if s/he is, s/he is living off the government as much as the tenants are.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #38)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:11 PM

40. There is a group of hateful jerks on my local paper site who complain about food stamps

On a regular basis, they claim to have seen someone in line in front of them at the grocery store buying something they consider unnecessary with food stamps. Finally some of the other regular posters started questioning them - how did they know that person was using food stamps? It's a card that looks just like a credit card. How close do you have to get to that other person to see what kind of card they are using to pay for their groceries? How nosy are you?

Shut the selfish jerks up pretty quickly. My guess is they were lying through their teeth.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #40)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:42 PM

60. It's not that hard...

This is an Idaho EBT card...



This is a Washington EBT card...



This is a North Carolina EBT card...



This is a Massachusetts EBT card...



(I tried to find a picture of a Kansas EBT card, but no dice. Sorry.)

The problem is, the states either intentionally (in the case of Idaho, it probably WAS intentional, as a way of shaming the people who hold these cards) or inadvertently made their EBT cards look like no other card out there. And you can spot one from a long ways away... you're standing there just minding your own business, the cashier is having a hell of a time getting the card to work (for some reason, EBT cards seem to require more swipes than non-EBT cards to get them to work; I dunno, maybe the cashiers aren't pushing the magic button the first time?) and you see the card out the corner of your eye.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #60)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:35 PM

61. I don't look at ANYONE'S card. I don't believe that's any of my business.

Honestly, those look a lot like credit cards to me.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:17 PM

2. great observation

 

that damned welfare queen


Meanwhile RMoney and his ilk get away with paying so little

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:24 PM

3. The Mythical Welfare Queen Invented By The GOP Back In The Reagan Days, the more things change.....

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Response to OverBurn (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 04:42 PM

30. Invented long before that - 1930's

The image of the welfare queen has its roots in the original efforts to defeat SS and AFDC in the 1930's. It was honed by RW radio in Raleigh at WRAL and moving later to TV. Jesse Helms was involved from about 1940 working for AJ Fletcher, and later becoming part owner of the station.

I first heard the welfare "queen" reference in 1954 or so. It was the same stereotype used today involving the loud black woman with the Cadillac, but she had a fur stole instead of a smartphone. The phrase used was she was acting like she thought she was the Queen. Remember the coronation of Elizabeth II had been the summer of 1953.

Jesse Helms taught Reagan how to speak racist during the 1976 GOP primaries.

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Response to unc70 (Reply #30)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 05:49 PM

34. Thank you for that additional context

It doesn't surprise me it had a longer history than Reagan, but I didn't know anything in particular before him.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:29 PM

4. Yes, god forbid his tax dollars feed American children instead of blowing up Afghan children.





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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:30 AM

45. Or pumping up Oil company profits n/t

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:28 PM

56. ^^^^^^

 

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:30 PM

5. I've heard multiple times that every illegal alien got a car, a free apartment,

food stamps, and free healthcare from Obama.

Helluva deal. Makes me wonder why they even bother to mow lawns and flip burgers in the back kitchen.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:31 PM

6. Your words wouldn't have gotten through

I have a brother in law who bitches about people sitting at home, refusing work while living on welfare. At one family gathering, he was telling us about an employer he knows who can't find people to work in his restaurant because of welfare. Well, I just retired from Social Services, and I informed him that welfare does not exist in the form he's referring to, and hasn't since the Clinton administration. Welfare recipients are now required to work or be in job training. My other brother in law recently retired from an administrative career at the welfare office, and confirmed what I had said. Anyway, conservative brother in law was baffled by this, and wondered aloud how people were refusing to work, and still getting their bills paid.

A few days later, it occurred to me that this guy is unemployed himself. He's been looking for work, and had an employer tell him point blank that he's desperate for workers, so why isn't my brother in law now employed there? Seem those crappy sub-minimum-wage jobs are plenty good enough for other people, but not for him.

The next time I saw him, he was once again bitching about lazy people on welfare. Despite getting the straight story, direct from insiders, he still thinks welfare pays better than work.

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Response to Courtesy Flush (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 10:05 AM

78. I challenged a couple Facebook friends to give me one example of a conservative that

they knew who was out of work and took a minimum wage job rather than collect unemployment. No one had any examples. I once did though. I took a night job at a convenience store just to get some experience running a till. I did still get a partial unemployment check because it was part-time. I know of no one else that did anything like that. Everyone of them milked the unenjoyment to the last dime before they took a lower paying job. This was mostly when unemployment was not high either.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:31 PM

7. The real 'Welfare Queens' are the Banks, Corporations and Special Interests.

who take home Billions.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:33 PM

8. I try to frame it differently.

Why should farmers, grocers etc. suffer because the poor can't afford to buy food.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #8)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:14 PM

14. Good one nt

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:41 PM

10. Childless people might gripe when it's true that

you usually cannot qualify for benefits unless you have a child - at least for Medicaid in many states.

Also, food stamps require that you have less than 2 grand in the bank as a single.

That means a single childless person is in the position of spending down their savings on overpriced health insurance premiums and food -- and as far as I understand this same person would have some of that covered if they had kids or were totally destitute.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:33 PM

16. "unless you have a child - at least for Medicaid in many states. "

Any person ( man, woman, child,) who gets SSI ( state income for disability, VERY low amount)
is eligible for Medicaid.
the last time I looked.

"In the past decade, several states expanded
Medicaid from its traditional coverage of low-income children, parents, pregnant women, and disabled persons
to include “childless adults,” poor adults without any children living at home and the population most directly targeted by the Affordable Care Act (ACA). "
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/2012-releases/medicaid-expansion-lower-mortality.html

I know when I was employed in non-profit Mental Health, single adults were covered by Medicaid.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #16)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:52 PM

17. single adult males with permanent disabilities yes

 

Took me over a year to get it for my mentally handicapped brother and he has a 500.00 per month deductable. Had to call over 200 doctors to find one who would give him the test they required. Then they didn't pay them.

My son was not eligible. He does not have a disability.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:54 PM

11. Max food stamps for family of 7 is $816, not $1,000

My story is I was in a line at a Department store and the woman next to me started bitching about how much of the federal budget goes to welfare. Since I work in that office I gave her the figures (less than 1% for TANF which is what we used to call welfare, pushing up to 13% if you include food stamps, aid to the disabled, the elderly, and to abused or neglected children, unemployment, housing, etc. etc). She called me a liar and said it was over 20%. I told her where I worked, that I'm a lawyer with the agency and deal with these figures all day. She said I was lying. I said if you include Social Security as welfare it could get over 20% and she said she was sick of hearing that argument. I said: "look it up online when you get home." She said "I don't need to. I know you are lying." End of conversation.

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Response to Hamlette (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:18 PM

21. depends on state my brother married, 5 kids ,and gets $1200/mo

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Response to JesterCS (Reply #21)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 02:05 AM

43. true

I forgot about state supplements. My state doesn't offer them and I tend to forget that some states do.

My bad.

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Response to Hamlette (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:20 PM

22. That's a great story and meshes with my multiple experiences. Along those lines,

 

I'd love it if you would take a look at an OP I did earlier today, b/c I think your story goes at least somewhat to what I'm referring to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021156152

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Response to Hamlette (Reply #11)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:59 AM

46. "There are none so blind . . ."

You cannot reason with them. My mother turned right wing as she got older. I'm sure if she were around today she would be a proud teabagger. Remember when the media (except Fox) finally admitted Iraq had no WMD? CNN was reporting on it as we were talking & she refused to believe it. Even when Fox finally reported it, she knew the Iraqi's, "or someone," had just managed to hide them.

In her last year she finally admitted to climate change, but not that human activity had anything to do with it. It is "just one of Earth's cycles."

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #46)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 06:32 PM

57. my dad was just the opposite, he got more liberal

He was a republican most of his life but Reagan drove him nuts with talk about "limited nuclear war". He was military connected and believed in a strong military as a deterrent to war. He believed Reagan saying the world could survive a limited nuclear war betrayed him and everything he stood for. The last 20-25 years of his life he was a dem and got more liberal as the years went by.

Wonder why you mom got "worse" and in a sense my dad did too albeit in the opposite direction.

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Response to Hamlette (Reply #11)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:19 PM

54. People like this woman you are referring to

could CARE LESS about the truth. She has an agenda and wants "her side" to win. That's all. She will just keep repeating her BS until she finds some sap or like minded person to agree with her.
There is no debate with these people. They just need to be discredited and exposed for the trash talkers they are.

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Response to Hamlette (Reply #11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:49 PM

70. she knows you're lying

probably because she gets all her facts from hate radio and fox news. pathetic.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:19 PM

15. People like that suck the energy right out of me

I used to think they listened to reason, but in my experience they end up agreeing with you because you explain it reasonably, and you feel like you accomplished something but then the next time you see them they're spewing the hate again. They not only go right back to their favorite mantra, but they totally forget they even had the earlier conversation with you.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:00 PM

18. It also makes me crazy that people like that

 

never seem to think that maybe the fathers of those children ought to be held responsible for at least some of the support.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #18)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 04:58 PM

31. Geez, now you're sounding like his greedy lazy welfare queen ex-wives...

... who tricked him into having six kids.

You think he should be sending his hard earned money to them?

I mean, damn that's harsh. What kind of communist are you?

Getting his girlfriend's car fixed ain't gonna be cheap.


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Response to SheilaT (Reply #18)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:03 AM

47. Bravo!

The double standard is appalling. Begrudging a few hundred dollars a month to a woman for her children, while looking the other way on the dad's involvement.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:02 PM

19. A suggestion: sometimes a picture will get through even when people otherwise ignore words.

 

To avoid the frustration in the future, why not cut this out (or something similar) and carry it in your wallet.



Ronald Reagan did very well because he was able to create pictures with words.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:13 PM

20. Should've called him a stupid repig who doesn't belong in a democratic society

 

I've said things like that to people, they fuck off real quick. (R)epigs are vile members of our society and should be treated as such in person.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:42 PM

23. i have a question. why is it okay to have

Six kids and be on welfare.

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Response to okieinpain (Reply #23)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:53 PM

24. excuse me?

what the heck are you saying...?


why is it OKAY? why is it NOT okay?

women in these situations are usually dealing with major issues - including domestic violence, addiction, generational poverty, and much more
not to mention children in varied ages are not always in school, and daycare for employment isn't easy to come by OR pay for, most subsidized childcare has a waiting list
then there's the job market, her skills, etc to consider

just because someone has the deck stacked against them from the start, is not a reason to blame them for their needs...

so check yourself with that attitude

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Response to FirstLight (Reply #24)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 02:47 PM

50. so people can just do whatever the hell they want

and there are no consequences for it. oh and fuck you with checking my attitude at the door.

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Response to okieinpain (Reply #23)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:55 PM

25. When your husband dies prematurely.

Like Paul Ryan's daddy. His family would have been destitute if his family wasn't in the construction business. Still he took a handout from Social Security

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Response to IggleDoer (Reply #25)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 04:29 PM

28. Welfare queen on the GOP ticket

Using the logic of the reTHUGLiKKKlans, that makes the vice nominee (I like the sound of that - heh) a Welfare Queen of the first order.

I know way too many people who have to apply for assistance...this kind of attitude toward them puts me in a killing mood. The attitude is also extremely anti-Christian - and that's the second club with which I prefer to beat those idiots.

I've a lot more to say, but there aren't that many %&$#@!!@@ symbols in the ASCII table.

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Response to IggleDoer (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 02:55 PM

52. it's nice that everyone is down with taking care of people

but what I want to get to is responsibility. the reason I say this is I know people who don't do a damn thing all day long, so why should i or you pay for someone that does not want to do anything. we complain about the rich not doing their fair share, shouldn't we complain about people on the other side doing the same thing.

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Response to okieinpain (Reply #52)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:27 PM

55. Your words...

..."What I want to get to is responsibility. the reason I say this is I know people who don't do a damn thing all day long, so why should i or you pay for someone that does not want to do anything. we complain about the rich not doing their fair share, shouldn't we complain about people on the other side doing the same thing."


Why? Because the 6 children did not make the choice to be in the situation they are in. Responsible adults in a society should NEVER stand by and allow children to go hungry. Just because the parents may have made poor choices that created a bad situation is no excuse for not caring for children. Period.

Add to that, in many of those situations, the one responsible adult is the parent...and caring for six children is HARD WORK in my book. Anyone who has children knows that.

BTW, complaining gets all of us nowhere. We need to all be less selfish and find solutions.

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Response to YvonneCa (Reply #55)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 09:44 PM

59. you're right about finding solutions and throwing

money at it is not the answer.

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Response to okieinpain (Reply #23)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 04:30 PM

29. It is OK because we live in a cicilized society.

You know.....more or less.

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Response to Webster Green (Reply #29)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 02:49 PM

51. so everyone can just forget about being responsible

and do whatever they want to do. who's going to pay for everything.

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Response to okieinpain (Reply #23)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 02:40 PM

73. Easy - one happy family, one bad situation, and a single parent is left.

First, define "Welfare" - WIC and Medicaid are not welfare; unemployment, disability, and survivor's supplimentals are not welfare, Section 8, Head Start, School Lunch programs are not welfare, most of the social safety net programs are not welfare; in fact, "Welfare", even with all the above subsidy additions may pay enough to survive, but still pays barely enough to thrive.

When people complain about "generational" welfare - which is only 5 - 10% of those who take government subsidies to survive on, they ignore the other factors that contribute to generational welfare - which is a serious lack of jobs that pay at least a living wage and a high cost of safe and reliable sustenance in the area that family is living in.

Modern "War on Poverty" welfare as we know it only came about in the 1960's - when it was recognized that there were too many widows/widowers or divorcees with dead-beat former spouses left taking care of what was once a happy family with a socially acceptable "lot of kids" that were falling through the cracks. Even into the early 1960's, when a spouse died, families were often broken up and the children sent off to relatives or given up to orphanages for adoption because there was no way for the remaining parent to take care of them. Welfare allowed that parent to keep the family together and attempt to create a stable household.

I've met far more under-graduate students, wait-staff, lower-level (including military families) and "part-time" workers who were on some form of welfare or subsidized service for the few years it took them to get their kids past the daycare stage and themselves into decent wage status than I have a "welfare queen". Most of the time, the few non-working caretakers of children on welfare I have met are the grandparents on social security who have already retired from an average job that didn't pay enough to save on, not some Reaganesque stereotype of a drug-abuser who sits on her ass with her six kids from different fathers who are all in jail or on probation. (I've only met two drug-abuser welfare types in the 45 years I've been aware of "welfare", and they were not custodial parents and on welfare for very long...)

The so-called "generational welfare" of the projects probably only consists of perhaps two actual welfare-dependent generations, and that, again, is due to the families that are trapped by living in areas where there is not enough opportunity for the people who live there to advance out of poverty/welfare and not enough resources to move out.
Before WWII, the families of the extremely or chronically poor used to just live in the shadows and alleys, often sterilized for "their own good", and have their children taken from them to be raised by charity and sent off to labor in farms and rural work camps (again, "for their own good" or in most cases, thrown out on the street when they got too old to stay at the orphanage where they had gotten a very minimal training on how to survive without turning to begging or crime. Now, these poor were warehoused into projects, still with no way to make a living beyond the walls of the apartment they were given to live in.

Oddly enough, in the 1990's, the focus was on the increasing amount of working middle class (often formerly union) families with severely disabled children divorcing because the health care benefits that used to be taken for granted were being eroded (along with the pensions and other benefits) in the name of corporate profits; getting divorced and going on welfare while whichever parent had the job paid minimal child support guaranteed that your child would be treated and you could all still live at home - while not doing so guaranteed that you were faced with a grim choice, your family would go bankrupt and lose the house, or your disabled child will either die or have to be turned over to the state.

So if they're trying to get on their feet, there's a lot of good reasons for a single parent to go on some sort of welfare or subsidy. In fact, over the past fifty years or so, a good 90% of applicants are still only on "welfare" for an average of six years while they get on their feet, get a little ahead and start paying taxes again.

So let's just use that bright neon paint reflecting the very few who, for whatever reason, can't get their act together at all, to brush over all of the people who need assistance - those who would rather be dealing with the cost of living via the living-wage jobs and benefits that Corporate America is not otherwised prepared to bring to their community. Companies aren't charities, and have no reason to actually spend profits they made off their workforce to invest in the communities they operate in, right?

After all, other righteous, hard-working Americans who haven't fallen down(yet) need some excuse to hold up when talking about how all those "lazy poor people" shouldn't be coddled for all the mistakes they must have made to get them into that situation.

Tough love, baby, that's what they all need - tough love. Just like during the Gilded Age...

Haele

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 04:00 PM

26. mom and food stamps..

 

The way I see it is that kids don't ask to be brought into this world and they shouldn't be asked to go hungry. People born with a silver spoon in their mouths, will never understand this. I bet they would come up with an argument against this.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 04:27 PM

27. I always try to talk about different kinds of "welfare" --an elderly woman

who never worked outside the home (thus did not formally contribute) but receives SS for the last 30 years of her life; Paul Ryan, who got SS because of survival death benefits clause after his father died; my own graduate school fellowships; early retirement benefits for military veterans. It all comes from the same pot, just delivered in different forms with a socially "respectable" label. Folks who struggle with generational poverty? Families who now need to rely on unemployment or food stamps because of medical bills or lost jobs? They have been vilified as lazy welfare bums. It's a sorry state we're in when we fail to see how we're "all in this together."

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Response to LuckyLib (Reply #27)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 06:45 PM

36. Yes, it seems like there's never a good enough reason to be on public assistance

in the minds of some.

Yet the real criminals - Blankfein, Dimon et. al. - get away unscathed.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 05:21 PM

32. i think you are missing the point...

People who can't provide for their kids shouldn't just keep having kids.

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Response to Green_Lantern (Reply #32)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 05:32 PM

33. And yet those who most strongly state that policy are the most adamant against abortion and b/c..

Make no mistake, the Republican party will do away with birth control as well as abortion if they possibly can, that is the exact aim of the very fundamentalists who complain most loudly about their taxes going to feed hungry children.

They don't want to feed the hungry but they damn sure don't mind enacting policies that will inevitably create more hungry mouths.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #33)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:07 PM

62. you're just assuming that...

But not only fundamentalists think you shouldn't keep having kids you can't care for.

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Response to Green_Lantern (Reply #62)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:23 PM

64. Paul Ryan has sponsored a bill to make abortion illegal even in cases of rape or incest..

That's Republican Vice Presidential candidate Paul Ryan.

http://www.salon.com/2012/08/20/paul_ryans_rape_reversal/

Romney, of course, has a bipolar relationship with the issue of a woman’s right to chose, but the spokesperson’s statement represents a flip-flop for Ryan, who has proposed and supported legislation that would outlaw abortion with no exception for rape. Ryan has earned a “100 percent pro-life voting record” from the National Right to Life Committee during his 14 years in Congress. NARAL, the pro-choice group, looked at 59 key votes on abortion, and found that Ryan voted the anti-choice position on every single one.

He cosponsored “personhood” legislation that would give fetuses “all legal and constitutional attributes and privileges.” If it enacted it would ban abortion care in almost all cases, including rape or incest. The head of the main group pushing Personhood legislation said, “In supporting Personhood, Congressman Ryan has taken a consistent pro-life position, one that is called for by the Republican Party’s own platform.”


And evidently you missed the latest brouhaha over Todd Akin saying that "legitimate rape" does not result in pregnancy.

You really should educate yourself.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #64)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:46 PM

69. what are you talking about?

That has nothing to do with saying people shouldn't keep having kids they can't afford.

Not everyone who says that wants to ban birth control.

Akin is in my state...no education needed.

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Response to Green_Lantern (Reply #32)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 06:28 PM

35. Let's just say that this mother is on welfare, which we have no way of knowing,

one way or the other in the scenario I described in the OP. Why would you jump to the conclusion that first came the welfare and then the kids (all but one I assume). People with lots of kids can fall on hard times just like anyone else.

That's even more the case when it comes to food stamps, which is the issue we're discussing here. Who knows what this woman's situation is. maybe she lost her job, or, oh yeah...maybe she's employed at WalMart. They encourage their workers to apply for food stamps because they pay them sh*t wages.

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Response to truth2power (Reply #35)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:17 PM

63. well I'm an advocate of judging it case by case basis...

You can't disparage the whole welfare system. And yeah you could easily have a good job with 6 kids and then become disabled and need welfare.

I'm disabled and use some govt. services so I know there are people who need it. But I think people on assistance need to have as much responsibility as possible.

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Response to Green_Lantern (Reply #63)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:10 PM

71. Given how our social safety net has been rendered nearly ineffective

I think the opportunities to game the system are slim.

When are we going to talk about billions of $$ stolen by the banksters?

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Response to truth2power (Reply #71)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:27 PM

72. why can't we talk about both?

It is a systematic problem.

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Response to Green_Lantern (Reply #32)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 10:50 PM

37. Each child is a tragedy and a hope...

Poor folk everywhere would be better served by free birth control and access to Health Care. Being trapped in a cycle of Poverty is more difficult than you can imagine, especially when Republicans consistently make it harder for these women to access Family Planning services, and de-fund all their other options. Of course restricting access to abortions goes along with that. Why not torture these women with images of their "unborn children" and counsel them towards Christian alternatives as well?

You're simplistic statement proves you have little desire to understand the depths of these societal issues, and might i add, would not be uttered by either the Green Lantern or Superman...

'just sayin'



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Response to druidity33 (Reply #37)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:27 PM

65. I didn't say any of that...I take a case by case approach..

Planned Parenthood itself says exactly what I said.

People who can't afford to be responsible parents shouldn't keep having kids.

With that being said we need more govt. support for families especially new parents.

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Response to Green_Lantern (Reply #65)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 09:25 AM

75. yes, but

sometimes unplanned things happen. Ever stop to think people can be forced into poverty AFTER they have children? Or after a major accident/health care crisis. I think maybe you have been affected by the Reagan/Clinton "welfare mom" stereotype. Do you know anyone on welfare personally? Ever been a social worker or someone who works with the poor and under-served?

Let's get back to this:
"People who can't afford to be responsible parents shouldn't keep having kids."

I doubt very much Planned Parenthood would phrase it this way as it sounds like you are saying poor people shouldn't be allowed to have children.....



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Response to druidity33 (Reply #75)

Mon Aug 27, 2012, 12:08 PM

80. yes I know people on welfare and yeah i realize people can fall on hard times...

But I know some people that are on it due to irresponsibility. I'm not saying everyone on welfare is irresponsible.

I'm on govt. aid myself for disability so I can understand people needing help.

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Response to Green_Lantern (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:09 AM

48. So what do you recommend Green_Lantern?

Forced hysterectomies?

Don

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Response to NNN0LHI (Reply #48)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:35 PM

66. nice hyperbole that ignores the problem..

I think we need more govt. support for families and more comprehensive birth control education and access.

Some people just need guidance.

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Response to Green_Lantern (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 06:40 PM

58. Right wing talking point

No one can know their financial status for the next 18 years +

Not even Republicans.

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Response to treestar (Reply #58)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:38 PM

67. it is a right wing thing?

That people need to be responsible parents?

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Response to Green_Lantern (Reply #67)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:12 PM

74. No that people can be certain of their finances for the next 18 years

I thought that is what I said.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:00 PM

39. The fascinating thing is Republicans want it both ways.

They want to abolish birth control and abortion so women can't have fewer children...

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:14 PM

41. RW assholes have called me a "welfare queen" because I get an SSI check...

...because of my Asperger's. I have trouble holding a full-time job because I'm still working on my Bachelor's degree and most the the jobs available to me are "McJobs" that I could not do without suffering an autistic meltdown, I tried working at a Mongolian Grill style restaurant one summer and I had a massive nervous breakdown. I'm currently working at a thrift store, but that only pays me $8/hr and they won't let me work over 30hrs/wk.

I suspect that most of these claimed "Welfare cheats" are people like me who have issues that are not obvious, and so the RW asshole assumes that they do not exist.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:18 PM

42. We own a small retail shop in our local community.

The favorite gripe of the racist (white) shop owners is that their tax dollars are used to pay minorities to open shops to the tune of $50,000 in free grant $$.

No matter how many times I tell them there is no truth to the lie -- even printing hard copies of the US goverment website that says there is no such thing -- they still insist it's true. Whenever a minority-owned shop goes out of business, they swear that's proof that they received a grant and spent it all.

Racist dumbasses.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:24 AM

44. It wouldn't matter ...

he's a loser and needs someone to hate.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:01 PM

49. So many levels of hypocrisy

Aren't these also the same "family value" preachers who say a woman's place is in the house taking care of the youngins?

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Response to BarackTheVote (Reply #49)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:16 PM

53. As long as the woman is white and middle class, they're all for her staying home

If she's poor and dark-skinned. she's a lazy moocher if she stays home.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 09:29 AM

76. If you could just stuff them all back in the womb he might be willing to double it to

 

2000/month.

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Response to truth2power (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 10:02 AM

77. I agree with your calculations, but we should not deny there is a real problem here

 

I know as an employer, a substantial percentage of the "working age" people cannot do simple things that would be required of just about any job: talk to customers in complete sentences, use a calculator to figure a percentage discount, etc.

Obviously hunger is not the solution to poverty, so I believe the food stamp program is a humane baseline, but it is not enough. I don't have all the solutions, but forcing every pregnancy to end up in a baby is not the solution either.

At a minimum, I'd say that anybody who is against choice has no right to complain about food stamps.

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