Our most activated and reliable voting block believes it's time to move on from Bernie

[MariePinchon]

Nearly a third of the 222 women from She the People’s survey who responded to a question asking who they would not consider for president named Sanders in their top three because they don’t think he’d be able to reach women of color, a problem he faced in the 2016 election.

“I think we’re at the end of the time when Democrats can speak to economic injustice and not speak powerfully to racial justice,” She the People founder Aimee Allison told BuzzFeed News in an interview.

Allison said that Sanders “has been specifically cultivating” relationships with people of color, to his credit. “I think we saw some moves to fix that, and I think there’s still some healthy skepticism there from women of color,” Allison added, referring to the poll results. “The real questions moving forward for many of these white candidates is: Are they going to be able to speak directly to the needs and the concerns of women of color?”

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryancbrooks/kamala-harris-2020-president-black-women-survey

[chillfactor]

1. agreed....

we have so many younger, stronger leaders in our party now....true Democrats not sometime Democrats.

[PaulX2]

14. Bernie Is More Of My Kind Of Roosevelt Democrat

Than people who simply register as Democrats.

He fights for the poor without caring if the corporations get half of the spoils first in too many cases.

A REAL Democrat.

We can't talk about what we could change to make our party better here without losing our accounts.

Thst sucks.

[whathehell]

58. Yes, mine too.

[Hortensis]

225. Unfortunately, he's also the Republican Party's, the Kremin's and the Kochs'.

Btw, I really don't think Sanders in secret would care to regard himself as anything like a Roosevelt Democrat.

FDR, the magnificent Frances Perkins, the monolithic black bloc that came together to pass the New Deal were ALL mainstream-type Democrats creating very big, needed improvements to the existing system from within the establishment.

The Sanders types of those days were of course outraged that the opportunity for real revolution was abandoned. They left the Democratic Party and formed the Progressive Party to battle the massive failures of the New Deal, which they of course ascribed to corruption.

That "of course" is because, by the very definition of who and what they are, whatever the vast diverse mainstream does cannot be good enough. Not because democracy admirably requires people of very different views to come together and agree on common solutions, but because to them what democracy requires is corruption of principle. Btw, that's why Roosevelt couldn't work with them, hard as he did try, and also why the Progressive Party promptly and inevitably failed.

[whathehell]

228. I don't think so..

Sanders has characterized his positions as essentially those of traditional FDR New Deal Democrats, and having grown up under those programs, I would agree.
I'd enjoy discussing all this with you at another time, but I am, at the moment, getting teady to board a plane.
.Happy holidays.

[Hortensis]

229. Of course he did - PUBLICLY. I said privately.

How about the ACA as dramatic illustration of the differences between FDR and the radical leaders of both these and those days, Whatthehell?

Because the current radical leaders' reactions to the passing of national health insurance by "establishment" Democrats are classic examples of radical/extremist behavior. I'm sure a bunch of graduate students have done theses on various aspects.

But, short of going and finding one of their papers and reading it, maybe just note the parallels between today's hostility toward and attempts to repeal the ACA and the behaviors of their earlier counterparts toward the New Deal. Those wanted to repeal and replace the New Deal in its entirety also.

Now, sensible people would say the ACA's a damned good start and -- amazingly! -- Republicans have not been able to destroy it (in spite of many huge hacks at it premiums haven't risen this year but insurance company participation has!), so why not build on what we have, as we always intended, including adding that single-payer option that Senator Lieberman blocked?

The difference between that sensible option and a Sanders-type determination that to the whole ACA MUST be trashed and replaced with something untried but with the same goals profoundly illustrates the difference between mainstream and radical thinking.

And it's the reason I'd be hesitant to vote for Sanders -- or any radical who replaced him -- to run an animal shelter, much less the entire nation. I want sensible. I want FDR's team. I especially want his magnificent Frances Perkins, which is why I like Elizabeth Warren -- ambitiously "mainstream-radical" goals, but without radical personality dysfunction.

Because I want achievement. I want progress.

[whathehell]

230. As I stated earlier,

I'd like to have this discussion, but can not now...It would be good if you could respect those boundaries.

[Hortensis]

231. What, we respond for all readers, not just the poster.

You need not answer, but I want to counter what I feel is a very foolish notion: That Sanders, or any who might take his place, should be invested with the achievements of a very ideologically different and very establishment Democrat who lived and achieved long ago (and died so he can't speak for himself).

That's like the Republicans equating their current favorite leader with Abraham Lincoln's (Republican, so one of them! ) abilities and achievements instead of evaluating him on his own record.

Seen that way, there is no comparison with FDR but rather great comparison with the failed Progressive Party leaders who opposed the New Deal.

Social Security ("old-age insurance" ), 40-hour work week, minimum wage, unemployment insurance, etcetera, etcetera, anyone? Thank Frances Perkins who sold FDR on the idea, and of course all the rest of the progressive Democrats, liberal and conservative, of those days.

What happened to national health insurance? Perkins: "the experts couldn't get through with health insurance in time to make a report on it." How's that for tragedy? She couldn't have suspected rabidly opposed conservatives would manage to block it for another 75 years or she would have acted then no matter what.

[whathehell]

233. I won't repond to those who refuse to respect stated boundaries.

If you want to speak to 'all", perhaps you should create your own thread on the topic. Buh bye.

[The Wielding Truth]

63. I trust that Bernie is for a better country for everyone and that's a rare thing to find these days.

I think that Bernie in the race will keep us on track.

[samnsara]

103. true...but i dont see any thing different from the Dem candidates...

..they all want the same things for us..

[dembotoz]

73. Yep

[Eyeball_Kid]

80. While I agree with your assessment of Bernie,

I also agree with the notion that age is a real factor in choosing Democratic party leaders. The old guard needs to pass the baton to more youthful, more energetic leaders. We have them in spades in the Democratic Party. Let the transition begin.

[brush]

174. Yep, we win with younger candidates...Obama, Clinton, Carter, JFK.

[Power 2 the People]

85. Well said Paul.

[Trumpocalypse]

148. FDR supported segregation

and the internment of Japanese Americans. He also created the military industrial complex.

[Cha]

153. No, BS is too divisive and 3rd party. We have

brilliant "REAL Dems" doing the work. Who don't take pot shots from the side lines.

[guruoo]

172. I wouldn't consider the Democratic Caucus to be "the sidelines"

Or ideas first discussed there to be considered "pot shots".

But, to each their own, I suppose.

[Cha]

175. It's obvious I'm not talking about anything

but the disingenuous attacks on our Democratic party over the last two years.

[WeekiWater]

2. This is a really difficult one for me when it comes to Sanders.

He was walking the walk in this area before I was born. He then took up ground representing predominately white and well off communities. Through that representation he became a one trick pony for decades. It’s fair as he was doing his job representing his constituency. Through that representation he has some reprehensible votes. Most dealing with social issues and most of those he and his base justify and excuse for economic reasons.

He remembered the importance of social issues and that there wasn’t pure overlap one beautiful day when he crossed paths with Marissa Johnson. That encounter was also a great reminder for us of the depth of racism that resides on the left. That wonderful moment made Sanders a better person and was a wake up call for many of us on the left, in my opinion.

He is still predominately focused on economics. He has become a bit more rounded and well versed. And we cannot dismiss the fact that a lot of his economic ideas would make the lives of minorities better, though they are more often than not aimed at the general populace, not targeted.

[Cha]

60. BS is 3rd party and he's too Divisive.

[WeekiWater]

71. I fully agree with that. NT

[guruoo]

149. Who's divisive?

[Cha]

151. EXCUSE Me!! I wasn't the one who went on Cnn

November 16, 2016 and called the Democratic Party "elite" and made it all about myself.

BS is always attacking the Democratic party.. that's Divisive.

And, yeah we're NOT rolling over for him.

BS is 3rd party and too Divisive.

[brush]

177. Yes, yes, yes.

[Cha]

179. Thank You!

[guruoo]

178. No, the problems he's addressing are the source of division, IMO. ...

Democrats strip superdelegates of power and reform caucuses in 'historic' move
Tom Perez and Bernie Sanders teamed up to push the biggest reform package the party has seen in decades.

Aug. 25, 2018 / 2:10 PM EDT
By Alex Seitz-Wald

CHICAGO — The Democratic National Committee voted Saturday to significantly curtail the power of superdelegates and make presidential caucuses more accessible, overcoming objections from a vocal minority of its membership.

The reform package, pushed by DNC Chairman Tom Perez and allies of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, among others, passed overwhelmingly by voice vote at the DNC’s summer meeting here — two years after the process started.

Perez and others hailed the outcome as momentous, saying the reforms will help welcome new people into the party by reassuring them that their vote will never be overruled by the party leaders who can vote for whomever they want for the presidential nomination.

“Today is a historic day for our party,” Perez said. “We passed major reforms that will not only put our next presidential nominee in the strongest position possible, but will help us elect Democrats up and down the ballot, across the country.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/democrats-vs-trump/democrats-strip-super-delegates-power-reform-caucuses-historic-move-n903866

[Cha]

180. BS is divisive.. you can't dance around that.

And, he's 3rd party.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

158. Lol

[alittlelark]

3. So happy you came here to tell us that !!!!!

[hay rick]

40. Me too, LOL.

[Snotcicles]

78. Usually whippersnappers lay low for awhile. nt

[QC]

107. Came back. n/t

[progressoid]

214. :)

I see what you did there.

[QC]

240. And now she's gone!

[Control-Z]

4. Good. eom

[Autumn]

5. As a Latina Bernie speaks directly to my needs and concerns.

[MariePinchon]

7. This could make an excellent conversation.

What does Bernie offer, to you, that other Democratic candidates do not?

[sheshe2]

15. Good question.

[Autumn]

75. All of our candidates offer something don't you think? Bernie keeps the focus on the important

issues. Immigration policy, criminal justice reform, Medicare for All, and protecting voting rights, Climate change, legislation with Senators Murphy, and Lee toward ending the war in Yemen, union representation, his stand on women’s rights and safety. Those things are some of the things I find important, and he speaks on them all the time and calls out those who seek to roll back our hard earned advances.

What Donald Trump says one day is meaningless the next. Last week, Trump tweeted that a $716 billion Defense Department budget is “crazy.” And he was right. At a time when nearly half of children live near the poverty line, when millions of people are without health care and when our infrastructure is crumbling, it is insane that we are spending as much on the military as the next 10 nations combined. But of course, Trump lied. Now he wants to actually raise military spending to $750 billion. We need to get our priorities straight. We don't need more money for the military. We need to finally take care of working families and veterans.

It's not just the Saudi-led war in Yemen which has led to the worst humanitarian crisis on Earth. It's not just the brutal and cold blooded murder of dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi. It's the entire structure of the despotic Saudi regime. The time is long overdue for the United States to rethink its relationship with Saudi Arabia.

If you want to know why our job is to expand, not cut Social Security, consider this. For the first time since the 1940s, Americans are reaching retirement age in worse financial shape than their parents. Today, one out of every five seniors are struggling to survive on an income of less than $13,500 a year. About half of older Americans have zero retirement savings. Meanwhile, the average Social Security benefit is less than $1,300 a month. In the next Congress, I will be re-introducing legislation to expand Social Security benefits and extend its solvency for the next 60 years by requiring the wealthiest Americans – those making over $250,000 a year – to pay their fair share of Social Security taxes. If this were to pass, Social Security benefits would go up by about $1,300 a year a year for low-income seniors, while 98.4 percent of American workers would not see their taxes go up by a nickel. And, we would increase Cost-Of-Living-Adjustments (COLA) by more precisely measuring seniors’ spending patterns.

Betsy DeVos and President Trump have a new outrageous plan: rescind federal civil rights guidance for schools that prevent discriminatory school discipline policies against children of color. This is unacceptable. Throughout our country, data shows that students of color are more often unfairly and disproportionately punished for minor school infractions in comparison to white students. The Obama-era guidelines that the Trump administration plans to rescind are meant to keep students in school and prevent minor infractions from becoming major criminal violations in a school-to-prison pipeline. Using school safety as a pretext to endanger and over-criminalize black and brown children only reinforces the prison industrial complex and mass incarceration epidemic that we should be boldly working to disassemble

It’s very hard to believe that in the richest country in the world, we have Americans in places like Lowndes County, Alabama, living in raw sewage and facing parasites like hookworm that are usually only found in developing countries. When 26 percent of the population is living in poverty and can’t afford the $15K to purchase septic tanks to stop living in raw sewage, it’s safe to say we are failing our communities and we must put an end to it.

I support the First Step Act, which passed the Senate last night. But let me be clear: this bill is, indeed, a first step. There is much more we need to do to achieve comprehensive criminal justice reform, and end the travesty that we have more people in prison than any other country on earth. We must eliminate cash bail, so that people are not held in jail awaiting trial simply because they are poor. We must put a stop to the use of private prisons, and forbid companies from profiteering off our criminal justice system. Most of all, we must end the use of mandatory minimums and reinstate the federal parole system. The primary goal of our system must be rehabilitation, not punishment. There is much more work to be done, and I hope the First Step Act marks the beginning, not the end, of the process.

If we want to have a strong American middle class, workers must have the right to come together and have a voice in their workplace. But corporate-funded organizations, with the Trump administration’s help in stacking the courts and National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), continue to attack hardworking Americans’ right to union representation. Their latest ploy: make it easier for employers to rig union elections by illegally firing pro-union workers and refusing to negotiate in good faith with unions. What we must to do is to stand up for the working people of this country and make it easier, not harder, for workers to negotiate better wages and working conditions. We need to pass my legislation, the Workplace Democracy Act, as an important step to defending those rights.

Veterans and Veterans Service Organizations have made it clear time and time again: they do not want the VA privatized. They know what this story makes clear—that the private sector health care system cannot provide the comprehensive, quality care that VA does. To my mind, there is no greater disservice to millions of veterans throughout this country than to deny them the VA health care they have earned by draining the VA of its resources in order to line the pockets of corporate CEOs and shareholders. If President Trump thinks privatizing the VA is what is best for our veterans, he is dead wrong.

An estimated 1 billion children across the globe are subjected to violence in their homes, schools, and communities. Tragically, girls around the world face a higher risk of gender-based violence. This must end, and we must do all that we can to support initiatives that empower and protect girls. It is a disgrace that the US stands alone in its opposition to the UN resolution to address violence against girls because of Trump’s opposition to abortion rights. Mr. President: Stop rolling back the clock on women’s rights and safety. You are making the United States an embarrassment to the world.

The United States has more people in jail than any other country on Earth. We spend $80 billion a year in federal, state and local taxpayer dollars locking up our people—disproportionately African Americans, Latinos and Native Americans. Not only is it expensive; it is a waste of human potential. We must end mass incarceration and invest in jobs and education.

As Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke was nothing more than a front man for the fossil fuel and mining industries. What we have got to do now is make sure that his likely replacement, David Bernhardt, is not allowed to continue pushing fossil fuel-first agenda.

Mr. Bernhardt has already played a central role in the Trump administration’s efforts to expand offshore drilling, shrink national monuments and open up millions of acres of public lands to oil and gas drilling. As if this were not bad enough, he is also a climate change denier who during his confirmation said that he would make policy decisions based on Trump's views, rather than climate scientists' views.

What we have got to do now is stand up to Trump and Bernhardt and demand a government that will protect clean air and water, promote renewable sources of energy, and preserve our precious public lands for future generations to enjoy.

While billionaires have never had it better, wages for working people have stagnated and nearly 40 percent of Americans are unable to afford basic necessities. We must fight for a $15 minimum wage across this country and strengthen the trade union movement so workers can negotiate for better wages, benefits and working conditions. It is an international embarrassment that so many people are struggling in the wealthiest nation on Earth. We can and we must do better.

In the midterm elections the people of Florida were very clear: once someone pays their debt to society they should not continue to have their rights as citizens stripped away. Nearly 65 percent of Floridians voted to give voting rights back to most felons who have completed their sentences. And yet cowardly politicians are dragging their feet to restore those rights. In Florida, nearly one in four African-American adults is disenfranchised. That is outrageous. Leaders in Florida must move as quickly as possible to enact what voters overwhelmingly told them to do.

In the six years since Sandy Hook, Congress has done nothing to prevent this senseless violence from happening again. That is unacceptable. We cannot sit and watch another tragedy inevitably occur, with more lives taken and more families and communities destroyed. We must act to pass gun safety legislation now.

That was just a small sample of some of what he talked about in the last week. I don't know about you but I want someone like that on my side.

[disillusioned73]

79. Let us not forget..

Bernie would not have turned tail and cowered when DACA was on the line like some folks did...

Is this the poll that has been debunked on twitter for it's suspect participants??

[Autumn]

110. I find it ironic that the top priorities for those women in the article are Bernie's priorities.

I wonder if this excellent conversation is over.


From the article linked in the OP

The survey also found that immigration policy, criminal justice reform, Medicare for All, and protecting voting rights are among the top priorities for the group as they decide who to support in 2020.

[MariePinchon]

114. They are not just Bernie's priorities.

Many of our candidates support the same things.

I didn't extend our conversation because I didn't see the point. I could have pulled any Democratic Senator out of a hat, say, Patty Murray and then proceeded to quote all of the policies she has talked about during the past week, too.

[Autumn]

116. Sure

Not such an excellent conversation is it?

[MariePinchon]

119. Well feel free to visit her twitter feed and see for yourself.

If you want to get all of your political news and opinions from just Bernie Sanders, that's your choice.

But you are missing out on a large variety of other Democratic Senators and Representatives who are fighting for Democratic policy.

[Autumn]

125. I don't get all my political news and opinions from just Bernie Sanders.

You ought to see what I have that I can post about on Biden and Harris, Beto, Franken, Murphey and Warren. I posted about Bernie because he was a major part of your OP and he was the part of your OP that I commented on.
So who is missing out on something? Not I.

[sheshe2]

127. Then post an OP.

You mentioned 6 possible runners. Please post an OP on each one of them share with the rest of us. I would love to hear what you have to say about each one. You have a very strong voice here on DU. In different ways all the people mentioned are a Democratic force to be reckoned with. It is going to be a hard choice this go around, so many great people ready to toss their hat in the ring. One of them is my Senator.

Autumn

125. I don't get all my political news and opinions from just Bernie Sanders.

You ought to see what I have that I can post about on Biden and Harris, Beto, Franken, Murphey and Warren. I posted about Bernie because he was a major part of your OP and he was the part of your OP that I commented on.

So who is missing out on something? Not I.

[NurseJackie]

139. Gurrrrl... you rock!

[sheshe2]

147. Hey!

Not that we know any of the candidates yet but... OMG! So many good potentials. I am truly excited about primary 2019.

Thank you so much NurseJackie!

[MariePinchon]

128. I asked you to address what Bernie offers,

that others do not.

You gave me a very detailed post about Bernie, and his thoughts and comments in the last week, but did not address what he offers that others do not.

[Autumn]

132. Bernie is a Democratic ally. Of course he will be on the same page with Democrats

so looking for a difference in what they offer is futile. I'm sorry, a request like that I really didn't consider it as being serious. I could see that as a serious request if the discussion had a moderate Republican in it, then I could give you some differences.

I posted examples of why Bernie speaks directly to my needs and concerns.

[MariePinchon]

133. Fair enough.

I hope that you open your views into the many other Democratic candidates who also speak directly to your needs and concerns should Bernie not become the nominee.

[Autumn]

134. Don't lose any sleep over that. I'm an opened minded person and I'm not stuck on ANY politician.

Unlike some .

[NurseJackie]

140. ...

[MariePinchon]

143. OK.

[George II]

142. I'm sure if anyone wanted to take the time to research it, we'd find...

...that most Democratic Senators have kept the focus on the same issues.

Now, other than "keeping focus", what has he actually DONE on any of those issues other than talk about them?

PS - it was Senator Murphy's legislation that was passed with Senators Lee and Sanders cosigning onto it.

[Autumn]

165. If someone wanted to research they certainly could. Did I post that it was Bernie's legislation? No

Did you miss the *with* in my sentence?

legislation with Senators Murphy, and Lee toward ending the war in Yemen

If you don't like the way I worded that sentence I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

[George II]

191. But in the real world it was Senator Murphy "*with*" Senators Lee and Sanders.

Sleep tight.

[guruoo]

183. Bernie's 'talking' attracts media attention to the issues at hand n/t

[Autumn]

224. Yes and all that I posted above was a small fraction of what he talked about in just the last week.

[sheshe2]

184. Awesome!!!!

Sixteen paragraphs as excerpts and not one link. Why?

Not sure that is kosher on DU.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

6. Wow. 70 plus people made that decision, eh?

I guess that settles it.

[herding cats]

10. These were top Democratic women of color.

Leaders, movers and shakers. The people who speak and other women of color who trust them listen. Not a random poll of generic people this far out, but the ones who influence the random people when things get real.

Take from it what you choose, but it's relevant now. Much more so than polling of random people not following politics who at this point just look for a familiar name to pick.

[Voltaire2]

18. Ah so not any sort of random sample at all.

Who should select candidates for our party, “leaders” or “the people”?

[herding cats]

19. At this point it's the leaders who've actually been following the issues and people.

Which they spread to their followers.

To you also, take from it what you choose. Time will tell as it always does. Ignoring issues won't make them disappear.

[MariePinchon]

22. The people who support the party.

And the people who support the party have spoken.

[Voltaire2]

28. So you think "leaders" should select candidates.

Interesting.

[MariePinchon]

31. The party base should have a say.

And they will have a say every time.

When the party base is rejecting someone who has already been rejected, that rejected person should take the hint and go away.

[whathehell]

54. Everyone gets a say.

[Voltaire2]

70. So Clinton Biden and Sanders should "go away"?

[guruoo]

204. That word...

[MariePinchon]

205. Oh, really?

I look forward to your explanation of what and who the base is.

[Voltaire2]

219. I'll help.

“In politics, the term base refers to a group of voters who almost always support a single party's candidates for elected office. Base voters are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. ”
Wikipedia.

Note it is not the leaders.

[LanternWaste]

76. Inference is certainly not your strong suit.

Accuracy does in fact, count... even if it it doesn't stoke your wee biases.

Interesting, part II.

[Voltaire2]

137. Inference wasn't required.

When asked who should select our candidates, leaders or the people, the response was “The people who support the party. And the people who support the party have spoken.” This was in direct reference to a survey of Democratic Party insiders. Those are the people, according to the poster I responded to, who should select candidates.

[scipan]

113. only 90% of respondents are Democrats.

[MariePinchon]

20. Otherwise known as the base of the party.

I'm so very skeptical of those who mock or laugh at it.

[sheshe2]

155. This.

[progressoid]

47. 70 super duper important people.

Leaders doncha know.

[scipan]

115. This looks like a brand new organization (around july 2018)

They might be a fine bunch of people but they don't get to determine our nominee. Geez, 200 something people responded to a straw poll of their members, a brand new org.

Good luck to them but if anyone thinks they can ram Kamala Harris down our throats they have another thing coming. I'll never forgive her for what she did to Al Franken.

[Devil Child]

210. Can also be read as 2/3rd of polled respondents had no prob with Sen. Sanders

Cherry picking results for a slam thread.

[herding cats]

8. I saw this earlier from the Editor in Chief of Mother Jones, Clara Jeffery.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

She's right. It's one of many reasons I feel Bernie doesn't have a legitimate shot at a nomination in in 2020. He doesn't resonate with a core demographic we need to win. Not in 2016, nor still now. He's had all this time to focus on repairing this disconnect, yet he hasn't managed to make the needed headway. I don't expect him to at this point, simply because he doesn't seem to understand what resonates with, and alienates, the demographic in question. He apparently has a tunnel vision in this vital area which he cannot seem to widen.

[MariePinchon]

9. Yes, it was Bernie's problem in 2016 and it continues today.

He's completely tone deaf on civil rights issues.

I also think it hurts him that most of his ardent supporters are condescending, arrogant, and predominately, young, white males who claim time and time again, that if they don't get their way, they will sit home and sulk, while Trump destroys our Democracy.

[herding cats]

13. Yes, it was, and it still is one of his main issues nationally.

I think a lot of his national supporters right now are either disconnected from daily politics, casual about them if you will, or too embroiled in their previous views of him to accept his political shortcomings on a national level.

[herding cats]

23. Ok, that totally speaks to my words.

Except it doesn't at all beyond making my point for me.

Wow.

[MariePinchon]

24. Paul, no offense, but, GTFO

Black voters are not stupid. They understand what's up more than you do.

[betsuni]

25. "if more minority primary voters understood"

"When Democrats become real inclusive populists and take on the 1% we will win all elections."

[sharedvalues]

29. Bernie never faced real oppo dirt

We don’t know what would have happened in the general with Bernie.
He has never faced a well funded GOP opponent willing to use dirty tricks.
I worry Stone et all would make a lot of hay with his past.

[Kahuna7]

72. There's already a video on you tube where trump calls bernie a commie...

[sharedvalues]

189. Now imagine Daily Caller/Fox/Mercer with real clips of Bernie

Imagine rightwing media smearing Bernie's wife, Bernie's youthful protests-- etc

[Hassin Bin Sober]

138. Yep. That rat fucker from the 1990s, Brock, pulled out all the stops.

[MariePinchon]

144. David Brock is the voice of women of color?

You can't be serious.

[guruoo]

146. Corporates slinging bs, while sweating bullets the whole time n/t

[MariePinchon]

156. women of color are corporates who sling bs?

I'm glad we cleared that up. I've heard the slang word corporatist come up against many women of color while discussing politics.

Now I know for certain that it is a slang word used against women, women of color in particular, by the brogressives who believe women's rights are "identity politics."

Oh, and a wedge issue, to boot.

[Hortensis]

234. "Corporatist?" Really? Lol. Of course, to brogressives

(i.e., male populists of the socially conservative/economically progressive type) all rights except their own are potential wedge issues. Majorly for some.

That survey from Mother Jones is interesting. And, unlike another one posted, believable.

[MariePinchon]

145. Why is it so difficult to accept that candidate Bernie Sanders

has a problem when it comes to black women?

[spooky3]

32. You're coming very close to "white-splaining" here. nt

[whathehell]

51. Bernie is "completely tone deaf on civil rights issues"??

Bernie has been fighting for civil rights since at least the 1960's..

The problem with some seems to be that these are not the ONLY issues he addresses, being concerned with economic issues as well.
..

[sheshe2]

167. Yes.

[Cha]

17. For excellent reasons.. A lot of the same reasons he

has Not "resonated" with me since 2012 when he thought "it was a good idea to primary President Obama".

Besides all that he's 3rd party and too divisive.

He doesn't resonate with a core demographic we need to win. Not in 2016, nor still now.

Mahalo, herding cats

[herding cats]

27. Hi, Cha!

I understand, and respect that.

He could have a chance in 2020 if he listens to these women. Time will tell, but I'm not overly hopeful at this point. We shall see.

I'm beginning to wonder if he might alienate other supporters if he were to reach out here?

[disillusioned73]

81. The responses to her tweet are quite informative..

& enlightening - thanks for posting..

[progressoid]

124. Clara seems to be confused. Only half of the women in this "survey" were Black.

Link to tweet

/photo/1

[MariePinchon]

129. They are women of color.

Not all women of color are black. Does this really need to be explained?

[progressoid]

150. Apparently it needs to be explained to Clara...

From her tweet, "Survey asked black women to say who's among their top three candidates"

[MariePinchon]

154. a bit fastigious,

don't you think?

[progressoid]

157. One should expect accuracy from the editor of magazine.

Don't you think?

[MariePinchon]

162. Yes.

but I believe you are nitpicking a bit too much.

[Decoy of Fenris]

159. "Fastigious"? It's technically a word, but I'm not sure you're using it like you think you are...

"Of or pertaining to a fastigium or pointed roof; having a ridge or an apex"

Unless I'm completely misreading your post, which is possible. Either way, I learned a new word today!

[MariePinchon]

163. lol

Does finicky work better for you.

[Decoy of Fenris]

164. Yes it does. :P I promise, I wasn't picking nits, I was genuinely curious.

Once I read that word definition, I was trying to find how to read your post while retaining the word in question. I could very well have been missing a turn of phrase that I'd not heard before. I'm starting to hit that point in my life where I can't keep up with the living language so easily any more.

[MariePinchon]

166. Oh, I hear ya.

I'm in the same place.

It's all good.

I'm cursed by too many practice tests for the SATs. The words tend to stick with you.

[sheshe2]

169. I learned a new use of a brick not long ago.

[lindysalsagal]

11. We need to win. That rules out Bernie, HRC, Biden, too.

We need to win.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

62. Forgetting HRC is a bad idea. Since when are crime victims

just told to go away? In my opinion there has to be a reckoning of this country to make her 'loss' more than a learning example as to how not to be cheated. She won. They cheated in spades, but there's no remedy for her? She's been a stalwart defender of this Country. 100 times the 'man' trump is. She got robbed. Is that how we roll now? Victims just suck it up?

[Joe941]

64. Ageism runs deep even among progressives unfortunately.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

65. The folks who want Bernie

dont seem to be ageist but, I hear ya.

[Cha]

182. And, there's people like me who Don't want BS who

are Not ageist.

Nancy Pelosi and RBG are doing fantastic jobs!

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

211. Right on.

Seasons Greetings out there Cha.

[Cha]

212. Mele Kalikimaka, CC!

[aikoaiko]

12. Let's let the candidates speak for themselves. And then we vote in primaries

It would be great if we didn't trash other people's preferred candidates along the way.

[herding cats]

16. I don't think this is trashing Bernie.

If he wants to be serious, he needs to take this seriously. This is the leaders of a core Democratic voting demographic speaking. He, and his supporters should be listening to what they're saying if he wants to be relevant this time around.

If anything it's guidance. He just has to listen to, and actually hear them.

ETA: It's deeply discouraging to see these women's opinions dismissed out of hand as "bashing" Bernie.

[MariePinchon]

26. Yes, exactly. And thank you!

[realmirage]

33. No, there's a pattern of bashing here

and using “women’s voices” as a shield to deflect from that is dishonest.

[herding cats]

35. Explain, please.

The floor is yours. Expound on how this core voting block in the Democratic Party having an opinion, or how discussions about their opinion, is bashing Bernie.

Please, proceed.

[realmirage]

36. This forum overall. Find any other candidate

that has this many threads bashing or undermining them

[herding cats]

37. Them, who?

Women of color? Clarify, please.

I'm not discussing this forum, nor was the article or my words you replied to, so I don't see this as relevant anyway.

[realmirage]

38. Who else are we talking about?

Sanders, obviously. I’m talking about the overall pattern of this forum. That’s all I had to say and now I’m moving on.

[herding cats]

43. People need to be realist and grow thicker skins if they're going to engage in politics.

It's a brutal reality, and I suggest not taking things personally. Which I'm suspecting is what you did here.

My words were meant on a realistic level. I'm not baiting anyone, or being contrary. I'm not bashing Bernie. I'm pointing out a problem he has on a national level he needs to address, or not. His choice.

I made clean and simple statements and wasn't attacking anyone. I can assure you I have no emotions involved here beyond curiosity and some shock at the replies. I tried to stay supportive, but still discuss the issue openly.

I freely admit I believe if Bernie doesn't passionately start to address this, he has zero hope in 2020. That's politics. It's about changing your local, state and national politicians, even though the majority of some may not be exactly like you, and moving forward from that reality.

It's not about pretending everyone is a cookie cut from the same cutter you were shaped from.

[violetpastille]

39. If we assume Trump will be a candidate then he has more negative responses than Sanders.

[whathehell]

49. You are correct.

Thank you.

[aikoaiko]

42. I agree with you and I didn't say this OP was Bernie bashing.

[herding cats]

44. Thank you.

I may have misunderstood.

[aikoaiko]

45. Well, I said what I said as a reply to the OP so its understandable. I could have been clearer.

I was speaking in a very generalized sort of way.

But I'm trying to do my part to help avoid the divisiveness of the past by supporting all the candidates speaking there parts, supporters speaking their parts (hopefully without trying to tear down others), and then we vote. And then we support our candidate.

Women and people of color will not be ignored or taken for granted anymore within our party. The criticisms of Bernie in the OP's article are fair.

[herding cats]

56. I can appreciate that.

In the end the only people we have control over are ourselves. We should at least do our best to be what we'd like to be dealing with in others.

My goal this time around is to speak more, but not bash anyone. If I see a flaw in a person who could be our nominee I want to use my voice to politely express my view. At least at this stage. Then I'll choose based who looks the best to me and toss my support and voice behind them. Which doesn't include tearing down other people's choices. That's not really my thing. It makes me uncomfortable to even have to watch others acting like that, but I do want to point out any falsehood I find. Even if it's not my choice.

I used to say and believe what we say (or don't, in my case) on social media and forums online doesn't really matter, but recent events have changed my views on that philosophy. Which means I now feel somewhat obligated to try and use my voice more.

Wish me luck.

[aikoaiko]

59. I wish you much luck and success!

[wryter2000]

57. What a novel idea

Bernie needs to listen instead the rest of us need to listen to Bernie supporters

[herding cats]

61. That's been an issue.

I know it has, I've seen it, too. The people still acting like that are not a part of the solution, yet. Some will never be, because they're actively disrupting the process for other reasons.

I'm trying to remove emotion from the dialogue and just bring calm facts. I'm suspicious (hopeful) this is the secret to beating the knee jerk reactions where we can just discuss things we need to discuss. Without hides here, or bickering in our lives or on other discussion places online. I'm not suggesting people won't lash out, they definitely will. We just need to be the focused ones. Calm, clean facts. We've all been collecting them now for years trying to make sense of this nightmare. Now is the time to use all that information we've amassed in our dark days.

We've all had a tumultuous two years, we're stressed, angry and deeply worried about our futures. My concern here is we're going to react due to the stress we've all been under and lash out emotionally like we saw in 2016, except even worse. Much, much worse. That would be extremely bad for all of us.

I want us to remain calm, thoughtful and bring our "A" game to 2020. We need to be studious, factual and fight the propaganda, and the raw emotions it creates, with reality.

We also need to vet our nominee like we're trying to find that one perfect avocado to serve to an esteemed guest. A bruise we can shave off is acceptable, but any flaws that run to the core of the fruit makes it unacceptable to be presented at our table.

[RandySF]

30. I've ruled out Bernie and Tulsi during the primary.

[realmirage]

34. Crystal balls don't work.

A country that can have a trump cannot be predicted.

[mentalslavery]

41. Not the biggest bernie fan but last time we fucked with the bernie or bust crowd

we got bust...so I will support whoever is not a republican...

[peggysue2]

46. I will support a . . .

"Democrat," period close quote. Because I don't think that's too much to ask. In fact, I think it's pretty much basic--I'm a Democrat and I will vote for a Democratic candidate who sticks with the Party come high tide or low. And what I want, of course, is a Democratic candidate who can beat the pants off Trumpski and his odious enablers.

Bernie Sanders cannot and will not do that. On any basic level.

Therefore, I absolutely agree with the Democratic Party's most energetic and reliable sector of our membership: women of color.

We'd be wise to listen to our sisters.

[violetpastille]

52. Yes! This! Well said!

[California_Republic]

48. Can we keep him on the team? Find a place for him in the administration

[LongtimeAZDem]

74. He's not part of our team, and he never was. He wants to have his own team, but use

our staff, our facilities, and our marketing.

[Still In Wisconsin]

50. I was a fervent Bernie supporter in the last primary and it hurt when he lost the primary...

but I agree that it's time to move on from Bernie as a presidential candidate.

[aeromanKC]

53. Time for Bernie to pass the progressive baton off to someone younger

Like Biden!! Or Beto.

[pnwmom]

67. Biden's 76 to Bernie's 77. n/t

[msongs]

55. so 2/3 of those women don't seem to have that problem with bernie then? nt

[pnwmom]

69. Hah. That's missing some important context.

The survey results, provided to BuzzFeed News by She the People, a new network advocating for women of color in politics, show a majority of respondents — 71.1% — includes Harris in their top three choices for president, if she decides to run.

The second most popular candidate was Rep. Beto O’Rourke, whose closer-than-expected Senate race against Ted Cruz in Texas this year has propelled him into the national spotlight. O’Rourke was a top three choice for 38.3% of respondents, followed by Joe Biden for 25%, Sen. Cory Booker for 24.2%, Sen. Elizabeth Warren for 22.3%, Georgia Democrat Stacey Abrams for 15.2%, and Sen. Bernie Sanders for 12.1%.

Women of color are a key voting demographic for the Democratic Party in elections across the country, and consistently turn out to vote at high rates. In Southern primaries, including early states like South Carolina, black women compose a large portion of the electorate and helped secure the nomination for Hillary Clinton over Sanders in 2016.

Nearly a third of the 222 women from She the People’s survey who responded to a question asking who they would not consider for president named Sanders in their top three because they don’t think he’d be able to reach women of color, a problem he faced in the 2016 election.

[Eric J in MN]

90. Other context is that they got poll responses

...from over 200 members of She the People.

Democracy for America got over 90K responses from their members, who ranked Bernie #1.

[pnwmom]

106. So a Bernie-endorsing group supported Bernie. Woo-hoo!

And how many of them were minority group members?

They clearly weren't representative of the party overall, or he would have won the primaries.

[quaker bill]

66. If so, then they will do so

and Bernie will not go deep into the primaries. It is a simple process, people who can get their voters to the polls win.

[Dorian Gray]

68. I think he should have moved on

after he failed to nail down the party nomination in the last election.

It's time for someone new.

[Beakybird]

77. Bernie has knocked other democrats and wasn't a full throttle cheerleader for Clinton

He would be my last vote in the primaries, but I would campaign for him religiously if he won the nomination.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

83. How much more should he have done in cheerleading for Clinton?

He went all over the place.

[JCanete]

82. oh, this is a mix of donors and party leaders? Well what the fuck do you know? They think that

Sanders has a problem with the black vote? They also don't really like his politics. You get that right? There's a real big problem with taking a group that lives by mainstream politics as an indicator of who can be elected. Then there are organizers and activists in the mix too, so good, but Sanders only showed up on a third of those surveyed's lists as a candidate they would not consider, so, um...that sounds about right...that's a given. This really tells us nothing at all about his actual electability among people of color. It only repeats a narrative born out of a couple early races where sanders did poorly due to a combination of no name recognition at the time versus Hillary Clinton who was well known and who had a name that had an established level of trust regarding civil rights.

[MariePinchon]

84. I hope you are not attempting to diminish the voices of women

like Barbara Lee, Stacey Abrams, Delores Huerta, Pramila Jayapal, Deb Haaland and many more strong Democratic women. You should research you She the People are before you attempt to knock them.

[JCanete]

88. Did it sound like I was diminishing them? I'm saying that you can expect certain circles to

have a certain response to Bernie Sanders, and this isn't about POC. This is about party and political apparatus and its financing that has cultivated the leadership we have, and generally speaking, those who did what it took to get where they are through this system tend to defend many aspects of it as it stands. Sanders has all kinds of problems with the status quo in our political process.

Let me ask you this. What do you think the numbers would be if they polled the entire democratic leadership and donorship? I'm guessing he'd be on more than a third of people's lists.

[MariePinchon]

91. She the People is ALL about women of color.

Their purpose is to amplify and advance the voices of women of color, aka the backbone of the Democratic base.

So yeah, I guess if you take out the voices of women of color, and just listen to the white men and women you may get a different answer. That would be foolish though, since that would not be representative of the base.

[JCanete]

93. wow...you totally misinterpretted what I said. I suggested that if you polled the entire

leadership and donorship then Sanders would do FAR WORSE than a very reasonable and expected 1/3 of black female influencers. He'd be on MORE lists of people who do not want him as a candidate. Because if anybody does not like Sanders, it is people who have built their livelihoods and their self-conceptions around the current system.

[MariePinchon]

96. You seem to be under the impression that She The People

are Democratic Party leaders who are working to keep Bernie off of the ballot. That is not who they are. The are women of color who want a voice and a seat at the table, and you are dismissing their voice. You said as much in post #82.

[JCanete]

98. No I'm not, nor is that what I said. She The People seems like a diverse group which also includes

many many people who by virtue of all kinds of things political are very connected within the current system, and are probably comfortable with the way it operates. It is working for them. You seem to be missing my point, that a third of these responders, given the pool, is really not that bad, and that again, if you expanded this pool out to all of democratic leadership, donorship etc. I assure you Sanders numbers would look worse, not better, which suggests, speculatively I grant, that there's a chance he is actually more favorable among women of color than among other groups...which would actually line up with numbers of 3 or 4 polls that say the same thing.

[MariePinchon]

99. That is not who She The People are.

She the People is a national network connecting women of color to transform our democracy. We are elevating and amplifying the voice and power of women of color as leaders, political strategists, organizers, and voters. She the People is building an inclusive, multiracial coalition driving a new progressive political and cultural era.
She the People kicked off a national conversation with its inaugural She the People Summit on September 20, 2018 in San Francisco. The historic summit featured the nation’s most exciting progressive women of color leaders on the ballot, championing movements, and driving winning political strategy.

Aimee Allison is the Founder of She the People, the national network elevating the political voice and power of women of color. By bringing together the most promising women of color candidates, strategists, and movement leaders, Ms. Allison is one of the primary architects for the electoral successes in 2018 that made it the “year of women of color in politics.” In September 2018, she convened the first summit to focus on women of color in politics to show that social justice can, in fact, become the law of the land. A democratic innovator and visionary, Ms. Allison has led forums and initiatives on race and gender at the Democratic National Convention and Politicon, among others. In conjunction with her leadership of She the People, Ms. Allison is President of Democracy in Color, dedicated to empowering the multiracial progressive electorate through media, public conversations, research, and analysis. She has led national efforts to build inclusive, multiracial coalitions, expand the electorate, and support leaders who advocate for a progressive future. A thought leader, a speaker, and a writer, Ms. Allison's acclaimed podcast, “Democracy in Color,” has featured some of the best and brightest political leadership, including Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, Congressman Ted Lieu, and Senator Cory Booker. In the early 1990’s, Ms. Allison was one of the first women of color to be honorably discharged from the U.S. Army as a conscientious objector and works today to support courageous, moral leadership. Aimee Allison holds a B.A. in history and M.A. in education from Stanford University. Author of Army of None, she has written for the New York Times, The Hill, and ESSENCE Magazine; and is online @aimeeallison.

https://www.shethepeople.org/about/

They were not comfortable with the current system, hence, their movement.

[JCanete]

102. They are rightfully not comfortable with the lack of black female representation, or their

marginalized voice. There is a specific focus on social justice. Within those who are members of She The People, I expect a wide range of opinions on just what economic justice looks like, and whether or not other aspects of the status quo...ie, how money is raised from whom, etc. is or is not a problem. I even expect that range to lean more progressive on economic justice than the rest of the Democratic Party, but there is still an expected resistance within party leadership to large changes to party politics, when those party politics worked for them after all.

[scipan]

111. They seem to have organized in July 2018.

I can't find anything before that, and their about page just doesn't say.

I think there are other organizations for women and POC that have been around longer.

[whathehell]

255. Guess what?...Without "We the People" of the entire Party,

"She the People" goes nowhere

The Democratic Party is a COALITION of different groups, each of which depends completely upon the other for Victory -- We can't win without each other....This isn't just a "feel good" saying, it's reality. It means no single group is more "important" than the other.

[Donkees]

92. Research ...

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[MariePinchon]

94. Which makes in even more surprising that he was the candidate

they chose as the one who shouldn't run.

[JCanete]

95. They didn't. a third of responders did.

[MariePinchon]

97. They are a big part of the panel.

The entire group of She The People is powerful women of color.

[scipan]

118. Guess you didn't read about the poll very much.

Avenetti and Bloomberg beat out Bernie for "the one who shouldn't run"

[MariePinchon]

120. and?

[scipan]

121. and? reread my post.

[TexasTowelie]

171. Please explain to me why a senator that was in office for 10 years has

no or low name recognition? Didn't he accomplish anything in those ten years that would provide name recognition?

I recall Bernie saying that President Obama should be primaried in 2012. Sanders announced more than a half-year in advance of the Super Tuesday primary elections in March. I also recall that Sanders was a guest on the Sunday morning talk shows throughout 2015 and 2016. Bernie was a regular feature on the Chris Hayes show and I believe that he was also a guest on other MSNBC shows. He was also on stage for the debates with Clinton and made significant showings in the primaries in Iowa and New Hampshire, but he had no name recognition? ...does not compute...

You might as well call the voters in the early races stupid with the preposterous notion that Bernie had no name recognition. I believe that the voters knew exactly who they were voting for in the primary and that is why Bernie lost.

[JCanete]

185. I have previously, and what a ridiculous thing to say regarding the general public.

How many senators and congresspeople do you think the average citizen can name, really?

I've known about sanders since he was a congressman, but others certainly don't know most or even their own local and state politicians.

Yes though, overtime he became a household name. He absolutely wasn't at the time of those initial primaries, and I totally understand an inclination, particularly in the context of the stellar media efforts by brock etc. to assume old white male versus a Clinton doesn't require much looking into. I for one, never bother to research a republican candidate when it comes to casting a ballot. For other reasons, sure, but I could certainly understand a general suspicion of some unknown white old guy.

This has nothing to do with intelligence, and don't try to make it that.

I

[TexasTowelie]

194. Your insistence that Bernie was an unknown by the time of the primaries is ridiculous.

Everyone who votes knew who Bernie was when the primaries began in Iowa and New Hampshire. The people who didn't know Bernie are apathetic citizens who most likely didn't vote in either the primaries or general election.

I know that there were many posters on DU that held Southern voters with contempt because it was discussed here at length. You have clearly indicated that you believe that the voters in the early primaries were uninformed and that if only they were informed that they would have magically been persuaded to vote for Bernie instead. I believe that the opposite is true and the voters had their eyes wide open when they didn't vote for Bernie.

[JCanete]

196. I have no such disdain for southern voters, and I think its safe to assume democratic voters are

better informed than republican voters. There's still no point in denying that Sanders was a far less known commodity, not to mention the media's reprehensible job of all but declaring Clinton the winner by showing numbers that included all superdelegates everytime they showed vote tallies or projections. It made Sanders look like he wasn't a serious contender and had no chance in hell. If those and Brock attacks, etc. are the entry points that people have just as they are learning about their candidate hopefuls, they may not feel the need to dig deeper. It may seem foregone. And this is a universal reality.

But no, I'm not asserting that I know the outcome should we have the same race today. I don't suggest that Sanders would have beaten Clinton with this demographic or in these states, but I do stand by the fact that polls continue to prove that Sanders doesn't have a poc "problem" as keeps being alluded to. Some other candidate may end up being more appealing when it comes down to it for one demographic or another, and we'll have to see where communities ultimately place their support, should he and others run.

[MariePinchon]

201. Bernie has a POC issue. It's been proven time and time again.

Why are you so reluctant to deny it?

It doesn't do Sanders, or you, any good to deny a problem he would face in a presidential run.

[TexasTowelie]

206. .

[MariePinchon]

207. Love it!

Not only one of my favorite songs ever, but it just sits here, oh so perfect, and has now become one of my favorite covers, ever.

I LOVE you for sharing this song with me.

[TexasTowelie]

208. You're welcome.

I was looking for the version by The Platters because I didn't know that Queen covered the song. When I saw that there was an option, well let's say that I like the cover as much as the original.

[MariePinchon]

209. Right? I never knew that Freddy Mercury and Queen covered that song.

But it was so freaking awesome.

I Love, Love, Love that cover.

[Autumn]

239. Bye bye

[JCanete]

213. No it has not been proven. Even if the numbers from the election were definitive of where

he stands now, that would still not be clear that he has a problem with poc voters, since it could simply mean that the Clinton's had a substantial cache. And since, clearly, poll after poll suggests that sanders is actually liked overall by democrats at a 70 or 80 percent rating and LEAST by white men, there's no good evidence that suggests he would have a problem with these voting blocks. There's no evidence to suggest that the fact that he's liked means that he's liked over other options as our next President of the United states from this data either, and I have no problem confirming that. Its just that you can't make it into what it isn't.

[Gothmog]

216. Denial is not just a river in Africa

sanders will not do well with this group in the real world. I am amused that you believe that sanders will do well with this group in the real world.

I seriously doubt that sanders will run in 2020. If he does, there are a large number of Democrats with long memories including a good number who attended the National Convention where there was a planned stunt by sanders delegates to boo Congressman John Lewis. The Clinton campaign warned her delegates about this stunt 30 minutes in advance. According to my whip, sanders was asked to stop this stunt and sanders declined. My whip and other Clinton types will be around to bring this incident up and it would make a fun commercial to run if sanders does run.

There are good policy reasons why sanders policies did not appeal to African American, Jewish or Latino voters and sanders is not going to change.

[JCanete]

217. and what would those policy reasons be pray tell? This should be interesting. nt

[Gothmog]

227. Denial runs deep

Do you really think that sanders will run in 2020 and if so do you really think that sanders will get any significant additional support from the African American, Latino or Jewish segments of the party? I am not going to re-litigate the 2016 primaries but I see little chance of sanders getting significant additional support from the groups.

Racial inequality is a real issue and sanders does not want to discuss this issue. sanders only wants to discuss his economic inequality issue and that will not work to help the real racial inequality issues that are of a major concern to some key groups in the Democratic base. sanders only cares about white working class rural voters. I call to your attention that many of the gains made in 2018 are due to increase turnout in voters other than rural white working class voters.

sanders claim that it is okay for members of his base to not vote for non-white candidates will come back to haunt him. Do you remember this thread? https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211400567 That comment will come up again as well the incident at the National Convention. Do you really think that sanders is more popular with African American voters than Congressman John Lewis? sanders refused to stop his "vetted" delegates from attacking Congressman John Lewis at the national convention. The Texas delegation shared a bus with the Georgia delegation and there were some pissed off Georgia delegates at the convention following this stunt.

Again I really doubt that sanders will run. I would love to see his tax returns which he will have to release to get onto the ballot in a number of key blue states. There are many strong democrats with long memories. I do love the fact that the new primary alignment will make Iowa and New Hampshire essentially meaningless in 2020. Two all white states that do not reflect the base of the Democratic party should not play a significant role in the Democratic Party selection process. See https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/19/1819917/-People-may-not-know-it-yet-but-Iowa-and-New-Hampshire-won-t-matter-in-2020

BTW, I love the attacks that the sanders bases are leveling against Senator Harris and Beto. These sanders supporters are really afraid of both Beto and Senator Harris. I wonder why so many sanders supporters are so afraid of Senator Harris and Beto?

[JCanete]

235. why claim something and then entirely tangent about other issues. You said policy...you

went into a tirade about just about everything else, including random Sanders supporters. Could you possibly take a moment to reflect on why that doesn't help the credibility of your original claim?

[Gothmog]

237. Denial is so amusing

I love the fact that sanders supporters believe that sanders will be popular with groups which have historically rejected him. Do you really believe that sanders' policy have any appeal to African American, Jewish or Latino voters??? That is so cute and adorable. Ignoring racial inequality and any other issue than sanders silly economic inequality issue is not going to appeal to anyone other than sanders base.

There was an almost 400 post thread talking about sanders' view that it is okay for his supporters to be racists and not to vote for non-white Democratic candidates. That thread was very amusing and this claim will come up if sanders runs.

Again, sanders has one issue that he believes is a solution to everything. sanders focus on economic inequality and sanders refusal to address issues such as racial inequality and gun rights will not help sanders expand his base.

As for sanders supporters, sanders has refused to tell his supporters to back down. There were some really upset delegates at the national convention. If sanders does run, there will be some great ads using these incidents. Many Democrats have long memories and will be happy to tell what happened.

Seriously, do you think that sanders can get support from groups that have rejected him??? Do you really believe this? I am really amused by this.

I really doubt that sanders will run and there will be a large number of real democrats who will work hard to keep him from being the nominee. We do not need four more years of trump.

[Gothmog]

238. State activists question inclusivity of Sanders Institute Gathering

This article outlines some good reasons why sanders will not get the support of African American voters https://vtdigger.org/2018/12/03/state-activists-question-inclusivity-sanders-institute-gathering/

And so Pohl-Moore and Gillom composed a letter and shared it with more than a dozen other Vermont diversity leaders who added their signatures and have posted the statement on Facebook.

“I write this not to complain about the fact that none of us were invited; I write this to point out the hypocrisy of the situation,” says the letter directed to the senator and institute staff. “How do you say that you are a person of the people, how can you be ‘awoken,’ in the words of Victor Lee Lewis, when you come home to Vermont to talk about justice and institutional oppression and don’t invite the very people you represent?”

“We hope that we are missing something,” the letter continues, “but if we are not, this is either a major oversight or just one more example of how institutional oppression looks, even among those who are progressive.”

Pohl-Moore and Gillom’s letter has been endorsed by, in alphabetical order, ACLU community organizer Nico Amador; Black Lives Matter of Greater Burlington leaders Katrina Battle and Jabari Jones; Migrant Justice representative Marita Canedo; Vermonters for Justice in Palestine member Wafic Faour; Vermont Coalition for Ethnic and Social Equity in Schools member Amanda Garces; Justice For All executive director Mark Hughes; Brattleboro’s The Root Social Justice Center co-founder Shela Linton; Lakota community Kunsi Keya Tamakoce founder Beverly Little Thunder; I Am Vermont Too co-coordinator Sha’an Mouliert; the Vermont State Police’s Fair and Impartial Policing Committee co-chair Etan Nasreddin-Longo; and Vermont Partnership for Fairness and Diversity executive director Curtiss Reed Jr. and special projects assistant Gemma Seymour.

Former state Rep. Kiah Morris, D-Bennington, who recently resigned as one of just five lawmakers of color in the 180-member Legislature after facing racial harassment, not only added her name but also shared her own concerns on Twitter.

I think that it is very cute and adorable that you believe that demographic groups which have previously rejected sanders will change their views.

[Gothmog]

276. Inside Bernie-world's war on Beto O'Rourke

Link to tweet

[Eric J in MN]

86. Nearly a third of a non-random sample. NT

NT

[Hassin Bin Sober]

89. The 70 (political operatives) people have spoken! Time to pack it in!

[R B Garr]

168. 70 real people certainly are better than online clickey clackey

keyboard ninja polls.

[Voltaire2]

251. Actually worse.

It is certain given the method used that this was not in any way a representative sample of any population other than the 70 people surveyed.

[R B Garr]

253. Online polls are a joke. When you can vote multiple times

or call some friends to join in, then it’s a joke. Just because you don’t like the results is no reason to malign people. We’ve had enough of that tactic used against good Democrats who didn’t support Bernie.

[Voltaire2]

256. Most prevent multiple voting, although indeed

if you are willing to make the effort you can circumvent the barriers.

But why compare this non-poll survey to the worst sort of actual poll? Sort of a low bar. And it doesn’t even clear it.

[R B Garr]

257. I went on several of those polls and was able to vote

multiple times. That’s why the Sanders polls are not respected. There’s also the well/known coordinated efforts of his followers focusing on polls to skew results.

Online polls are a joke. No need to malign the real people who participated in this poll. The results match very well the real life results Sanders faces with this constituency.

[Voltaire2]

258. Well then you should be relieved to know

that the CNN SSRS poll that started this kerfluffle was a standard random sample. Poll, you the kind that actually is statistically valid.

The CNN Poll was conducted by SSRS December 6 through 9 among a random national sample of 1,015 adults reached on landlines or cellphones by a live interviewer, including 463 self-identified Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents. Results for the full sample have a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.8 percentage points, it is 5.6 points for results among the potential Democratic electorate.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/12/14/politics/cnn-poll-2020-democrats-beto-orourke-rising/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

[R B Garr]

259. It's not a "kerfuffle". It's just a poll that you don't like.

And now you're trying to say that online polls where you can vote multiple times and call all your friends to vote multiple times are valid. LOL.

[Voltaire2]

260. Lulzd.

[R B Garr]

262. No bueno

Isn’t there a term “freep” where people call their pals in to spam online polls? lulzed indeed.

[Voltaire2]

263. I try this one more time.

This was not an online poll.

[R B Garr]

266. You injected yourself and you didn't understand.

I know this wasn’t an online poll. My comment wasn’t about this poll. LOL.

[Voltaire2]

267. Lulzd.

70 real people certainly are better than online clickey clackeTy.

[R B Garr]

268. Lulzlolz haha

You injected yourself and didn’t understand. Still don’t.

[Voltaire2]

269. I just thinks it's a riot that you think your

survey of 70 party leaders is a valid poll because it is better than internet polls that are in your opinion utter garbage. That is a low bar.

However the point of this op was to counter the CNN SRSS poll which found substantial support for Sanders among minority voters.

But you know that. So did the op.

[R B Garr]

270. It was obvious you thought you were being clever

by pretending confusion about polls.

I’ve seen the online polls in action, and they are a joke. Any time you can vote multiple times or have organized efforts to vote multiple times, it’s a joke. There are threads posted here regularly about a certain politician that are online polls.

This is getting tiresome now. You didn’t understand my comment, so time to move on.

[sarcasmo]

87. Adios, Independent Sanders.

[jalan48]

100. Sorry but millions of Americans are not moving on from Sanders. We need to figure out how

to work together rather than selectively dismissing certain candidates.

[Cha]

130. BS is 3rd party and too Divisive.

I see a lot of people have moved on from him.. on this board and all over twitterverse.

[hueymahl]

101. I LOVE Bernie

But I do NOT want him to run. I agree, it is time to move on. Time for another generation of leaders.

[shanny]

104. I guess we will know if that is the case when people start voting with their pocketbooks

and in the primaries.

[Cary]

105. Are we going to repeat our stupidity leading up to the 2016 election?

I really hope we learned something.

VOTE DEMOCRATIC!

[Devil Child]

108. Ill let the primaries resolve this question

If Sen. Sanders has no viability that will quickly show in the primaries if he chooses to run.

[FiveGoodMen]

109. My grandfather came to the US from the Netherlands when he was 16

Any candidate who does not have a Dutch background cannot possibly speak to me on any issue or represent me in D.C.

All those non-Dutch hopefuls should just go away, because they're not for me!

[Gothmog]

112. I doubt that sanders will either release his tax returns or agree to be a member of the party

I think that sanders is busy selling his latest poorly reviewed book and will not run in 2020. Under DNC rules, sanders would have to formally join the party and agree in writing to run as a member of the Democratic Party and to govern as a member of the Democratic Party. In addition, there are a couple of blue states that have ballot access laws that will force sanders to release his full tax returns to get onto the ballot in these states.

Time will tell but I would be surprised to see sanders comply with the DNC rule or release his tax return

[Eric J in MN]

152. I think Bernie will run.

If he wants to run, he won’t be stopped by needing to release tax returns or to promise to govern as a Democrat if he becomes president. He released his 2014 tax returns. He has praised FDR’s New Deal.

[Gothmog]

160. Time will tell

Sanders refused to release 2015 and other returns. There are issues as to who was paid commissions on 2016 TV ads that will be answered if sanders has to release full tax returns.

There are a ton of real democrats who have long memories

[MariePinchon]

161. "or to promise to govern as a Democrat "

Umm, it's not just women of color who will reject him, but the majority of Democratic voters if he tries to pull that stunt again.

There is a reason he lost the primary. And he won't fare any better if he goes in seeking folks with that attitude again.

We are not looking to become the party of Republican light. We are seeking real progressive change. We are seeking liberty and justice, for all. Equality, for all. We are not seeking to fight for the Democratic platform minus the social issues.

[Eric J in MN]

173. Bernie Sanders is an Independent because he's to the left

...of the Democratic Party. He’s not Republican-lite. He has a 100% rating from NARAL Pro-Choice America.

[guruoo]

187. He's comes from where the party's center used to be before

the whole playing field was shifted 50 yards to the right.

[MariePinchon]

198. That's not agreed upon.

Many of us do not find him to the left at all.

Many of us find him extremely weak on social justice and civil rights issues.

[Eric J in MN]

199. Name one civil rights policy he doesn't support. NT

NT

[MariePinchon]

203. Lordy. I just went through this scenario with another poster.

Maybe you will be more cooperative.

Name one Bernie Sanders policy that no other Democrat supports.

[Eric J in MN]

220. Bernie Sanders is the only likely presidential candidate

...who advocates a ban on fracking.

[betsuni]

221. 2016 LOL

[Cha]

181. Oh? Will BS run on the 3rd party ticket?

[Eric J in MN]

222. No. That would guarantee Trump's re-election. NT

NT

[MrsCoffee]

232. Trump won't be running in 2020.

[Cha]

236. That's what he is.. 3rd party.

[MrsCoffee]

117. I think the majority of Democrats agree.

[guruoo]

141. 2 out of 3 voices in my head agree

Man, it was close! Had to keep rerunning the poll 'till we got it!

System still works, just like back in the day...

?w=519&h=683

[Rob H.]

122. Honest headline: Poll of Democratic Insiders and Campaign Donors Finds Little Support for Sanders

Shocker. News at 11.

Those surveyed included campaign donors (48.5%), current and former elected officials (10.6%), campaign managers (5.7%), electoral campaign strategists (8.7%), and women who run (23.1%) or work (23.5%) at politically-minded organizations.

[MariePinchon]

123. Wrong! Women of color who wish to be heard.

see post #99.

also see post #84.

Your dismissiveness of the voices of women of color, the backbone of the Democratic Party, is noted.

[Autumn]

186. That's the makeup of She the People? Aimee Allison the founder is on Politico's Power List 2019.

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2018/politico-power-list-2019/aimee-allison/?fbclid=IwAR0ioY4ErwmidxfDrI6igGaPhSXna-ShLtHVb9Dr0dQUknAc5Di0bsPP0XU

[MariePinchon]

190. Aimee Allison and the other founding members are remarkable women of color.

Are you seriously going to attempt to display them as Democratic Insiders?

If that is your attempt. Shame on you.

[Autumn]

195. What complete nonsense. I did no such thing.

[MariePinchon]

197. What exactly was your point then?

[Autumn]

200. I commented on another posters post, that's the way these things work.

This post

Honest headline: Poll of Democratic Insiders and Campaign Donors Finds Little Support for Sanders

Shocker. News at 11.

Those surveyed included campaign donors (48.5%), current and former elected officials (10.6%), campaign managers (5.7%), electoral campaign strategists (8.7%), and women who run (23.1%) or work (23.5%) at politically-minded organizations.

[MariePinchon]

202. Ok, so, defer and deflect?

[Autumn]

223. How so? I commented on another's post You make a false accusation

Last edited Thu Dec 20, 2018, 10:36 AM - Edit history (1)

and I replied to you politely. How does that defer and deflect? Let me lay it out for you.

I responded to this post

122. Honest headline: Poll of Democratic Insiders and Campaign Donors Finds Little Support for Sanders

Shocker. News at 11.

Those surveyed included campaign donors (48.5%), current and former elected officials (10.6%), campaign managers (5.7%), electoral campaign strategists (8.7%), and women who run (23.1%) or work (23.5%) at politically-minded organizations.

with this where I asked a question and posted a factual observation with a link because I was interested enough to look into this new organization.

Star Member Autumn (32,257 posts)

186. That's the makeup of She the People? Aimee Allison the founder is on Politico's Power List 2019.
https://www.politico.com/interactives/2018/politico-power-list-2019/aimee-allison/?fbclid=IwAR0ioY4ErwmidxfDrI6igGaPhSXna-ShLtHVb9Dr0dQUknAc5Di0bsPP0XU

You responded with this to me And for the life of me I can't figure out why I should be ashamed of pointing out an honor, there are a lot of high profile people of that list to watch for 2019 and not just Democrats. Keep in mind as a Latina I am also a woman of color

MariePinchon (86 posts)

190. Aimee Allison and the other founding members are remarkable women of color.

Are you seriously going to attempt to display them as Democratic Insiders?

If that is your attempt. Shame on you.

I responded with a denial highlighted below. Where in that post did I ever imply she was an insider?

Star Member Autumn (32,257 posts)

195. What complete nonsense. I did no such thing.

You again

MariePinchon (86 posts)

197. What exactly was your point then?

Autumn (32,257 posts)

200. I commented on another posters post, that's the way these things work.

This post

Honest headline: Poll of Democratic Insiders and Campaign Donors Finds Little Support for Sanders

Shocker. News at 11.

Those surveyed included campaign donors (48.5%), current and former elected officials (10.6%), campaign managers (5.7%), electoral campaign strategists (8.7%), and women who run (23.1%) or work (23.5%) at politically-minded organizations.

and here we are at your defer and deflect comment.

MariePinchon (86 posts)

202. Ok, so, defer and deflect?

On what post did I deflect please? In this sub thread I never addressed you until you made an accusation that was way off base regarding my post #186. Shame on me? No. Shame on you for accusing me of something I never said.
deflect
to change direction by interposing something; turn aside from a straight course.

and what did I defer?
defer
put off (an action or event) to a later time; postpone.

[katmondoo]

126. Yes it is.

[uponit7771]

131. ***FULL TAX RETURNS !!! ***

[Sparkly]

135. I agree.

[R B Garr]

170. Amen! Anyone insinuating others are corrupt should

be transparent themselves.

[SMC22307]

176. Approximately 70 respondents is your idea...

of "our most activated and reliable voting block?"

That has to be one of the funniest fuggin' things I've read on DU! LOL Thanks.

[MariePinchon]

192. I'm insulted that once again someone wants to dismiss the voices of

Democratic women of color.

And you wonder why Bernie does so poorly with that demographic. Geez. Just look at this thread.


I cannot believe the cluelessness of some.

[Voltaire2]

264. Yeah. And oddly enough.....

[LovingA2andMI]

188. It's Time....

And we were Bernie Supporters in 2016. That was then. This is now.

[MariePinchon]

193. Thank you.

Onward. Let's go.

[Gothmog]

215. I was a delegate to the national convention and I have a very different view of bernie

Under DNC rules, candidates are supposed to vet their delegates to the national convention to ensure that such delegates reflect the candidate and the campaign that they are representing. I know that I was vetted and I was on a committee that vetted other delegates. To be a delegate to the national convention all delegates signed an oath to support the nominee of the party. The sanders delegates ignored that oath and tried to hurt the party.

For example, there was a planned stunt by the sanders delegates to boo Congressman John Lewis on the first night of the convention. The Clinton campaign warned all of her delegates about this stunt about 30 minutes in advance. According to my whip, sanders was asked to stop this stunt and sanders declined. My whip now works for the DNC and I know a number of people who were in the Clinton campaign who are still upset about this stunt at the National Convention.

I suspect that if sanders runs, there will be some fun ads based on this stunt. I really hope that sanders does not run for the nomination. If he does, there are some hard feelings about the stunts he and his supporters pulled at the National Convention.

[JustAnotherGen]

218. I think

Until after the California and South Carolina primaries - no one really knows.

NH and Iowa don't really fit the base demographics. It works for the GOP. It won't work for the Democratic Party anymore.

CA and SC are where you get a large enough sampling of black and latina women to make the King or Queen. They are culturally and regionally different enough to define the win in the GE against the GOP Candidate. And no - I don't believe that person will be Trump.

[zonkers]

226. A Bernie presidency still terrifies the establshment.

[QC]

241. Ah Marie, we hardly knew ye!

Posting Privileges Revoked.

[Autumn]

242. Alas we knew her well!

[QC]

243. Many, many times.

More avatars than Vishnu, that one.

[progressoid]

252. Ha!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

244. Speaking of time to move on.

[melman]

245. What happened to the OP?

What a terrible shame.

[George II]

246. Why is that?

[melman]

247. Why is what?

[George II]

248. .

[melman]

249. Not sure what your point is here

Sorry.


btw, what's the deal with that sig pic?

[SMC22307]

250. I know. I wanted to hear all about the POC struggling to live...

on less than $15/hr who are anti-Bernie. I swear I've seen them standing side-by-side at rallies and on picket lines, but hey, if 70 respondents in some *power survey* say otherwise, then I'm sold!

And for those who missed this news: UNC Health Care has announced a $15 minimum wage in 2019. This, for North Carolina workers, is HUGE, and would not be happening if not for Occupy, Seattle, Reverend Barber, Bernie, fast-food workers, and all the other Lefty Leftist groups pushing for livable wages.

https://www.wral.com/unc-health-care-to-raise-minimum-wage-to-15-for-9-000-employees/18057396/

[Autumn]

254. That is fantastic! A livable wage should be a top priority for anyone.

After doing research it was was easy to see the *power survey*poll was a POS joke with an agenda.

[SMC22307]

271. Did DU even acknowledge UNC's $15/hr in 2019?

I guarantee "economic justice" matters to those CNAs, environmental service workers, and cafeteria staff struggling to survive on $10/hr. The jump to $15 is HUGE.

[Autumn]

272. If it was posted I missed it. There not a lot of information posted anymore.

[SMC22307]

273. That's true. The site has become very Tweet-driven...

which is entertaining, but doesn't offer the sort of substance it once did.

[Autumn]

274. There are great sources to follow on Twitter and news hits fast there depending on who you

follow. Most people just tweet stuff from people they like or don't like . No matter if it's true or not.

[SMC22307]

275. Agree.

So much propaganda... from all directions.

[Vinca]

261. I say we let the primaries decide. 74 women anti-Bernie is not much of a survey.

[jalan48]

265. Looks like the poster heeded her own advice and moved on.

[Gothmog]

277. CNN-Bernie Sanders Supporters should worry about Beto

Harry Enten has some good analysis https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/14/politics/bernie-sanders-beto-orourke-supporters-2020/index.html

The Beto O'Rourke 2020 train seems to be gaining steam. Those backing other potential candidates want donors and pundits to slow their Beto roll, however.

Among the most prominent critics are supporters of Vermont independent Sen. Bernie Sanders who believes the Texan isn't progressive enough.

Sanders fans have at least some reason to worry. O'Rourke or really any other candidate with outsider appeal could eat into Sanders' base of young, independent-leaning voters.

If Sanders is going to win in 2020, he'll need to hold onto his support from 2016. He won more than 40% of the national primary vote, though he lost by low double-digits to Clinton national