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[Equinox Moon]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Equinox Moon) on Thu Dec 20, 2018, 02:39 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[WeekiWater]

1. He did not join the progressive caucus, said he doesn't like labels,

yet is a part of the New Democrat Coalition. He does not hide his wanting to work with Republicans. He has been pretty open about it.

I still believe he is a solid progressive in his positions today. Specially when talking about a Texas Democrat. Not that there aren't some very solid progressive Democrats out there. Some of the best.

[Equinox Moon]

2. I don't live in Texas to know about his current views, but...

I would be very concerned if the "New Democratic Coalition" had an agenda that is that of repubs.

[WeekiWater]

3. About the New Democrat Coalinton

https://newdemocratcoalition-himes.house.gov/

List of members

https://newdemocratcoalition-himes.house.gov/members

[Equinox Moon]

4. I did not know it was an actual coalition, thanks.

Still, for Beto to vote with repubs so much is worth noting.

[WeekiWater]

19. I agree that it is worth noting.

Lets see if people feel the same if Biden enters and his economic voting record and statements of the past with respect to economics are scrutinized.

We have a solid list of progressives to choose from. I don't think a lot of us on the left are going to need to compromise with our primary vote.

[a kennedy]

88. Every time I hear that "Democrat" term it makes my ears burn.......wish you could change that......

thank you for the list tho.

[Gothmog]

42. I live in Texas and was proud to vote and work on the Beto campaign

I was a delegate to the national convention with Beto and got to talk to him at the national convention.

I love the fact that sanders supporters are terrified of Beto and Senator Harris. This really amuses me

[WeekiWater]

53. If I were in Texas.

I would have been proud to have had the opportunity to vote for him. I have a very favorable opinion of him. I think there are currently two sides attempting to portray him as something he is not.

[Hortensis]

90. Yes. :) The Republicans and Russia are also afraid of Beto

and Senator Harris, as this piece and others like it demonstrate.

In contrast, the GOP at least is promoting Senator Sanders over Democrats (again!), which should be a giant, flaming red flag no one can mistake.

As for Beto's Texas record, COMPETENT legislators legislate. They work WITH the representatives sent by voters in other districts to arrive at solutions.

Those who don't like Beto's record should maybe avoid looking at Stacey Abrams' here in Georgia, which has been governed by blood-red Republican trifectas (governor and both houses of the assembly) through her entire career. Cooperation is the only way to get anything done in that environment, but she has been effective.

No necesitamos el muro. Si queremos asegurar nuestras comunidades, necesitamos tratar gente con respeto y dignidad. El ejemplo es el ciudad de El Paso donde nací, donde crecí, donde están mis hijos en las mismas escuelas donde yo estaba. Somos una de las comunidades más seguras de los Estados Unidos ahora, y no necesitamos un muro. No necesitamos la Guardia Nacional. Necesitamos reflejar la fortaleza de nuestras comunidades, incluyendo los inmigrantes.

(Translation: We don't need the wall. If we want to secure our communities, we need to treat people with respect and dignity. The example is the city of El Paso where I was born, where I grew up, where my children are in the same schools where I was. We are one of the safest communities in the United States now, and we don't need a wall. We don't need the National Guard. We need to reflect the strength of our communities, including immigrants.) ~ Beto O'Rourke.

[George II]

51. Three of the five Connecticut Representatives are members (one is the Chairman)....

....of the New Democrat Coalition.

Connecticut is one of the bluest states in the country - ALL five members of Congress are Democrats (and will be again next year), both Senators are Democrats, all state-wide office holders are Democrats, and Democrats have large majorities in both houses of the State Legislature.

So, joining a group like the New Democrat Coalition isn't "pure" enough?

[Gothmog]

5. WOW-sanders supporters are rally worried about Beto

The attacks on Beto by sanders supporters show that they are afraid of Beto

[comradebillyboy]

6. Not the least bit surprising is it?

[Equinox Moon]

10. Are you comfortable with Beto voting with repubs?

[comradebillyboy]

21. I am quite comfortable with Beto's voting record.

Purity is not my goal. Were you uncomfortable with all those Democrats voting for the Republican prison reform bill?

[Equinox Moon]

25. Your position surprises me.

[Gothmog]

44. Again, I supported Beto and worked on his campaign

I am really loving watching the sanders supporters attack Beto and Senator Harris. The fact that sanders supporters are terrified of Beto amuses me.

[Gothmog]

22. Beto really scares sanders supporters

Last edited Thu Dec 20, 2018, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)

The fear of Beto and Senator Harris is amazing

[comradebillyboy]

24. And Kamala Harris does as well.

[Gothmog]

47. Senator Harris has been attacked by sanders supporters also

These attacks are really amusing

[Equinox Moon]

8. This is an article by the Guardian reporting a 6 year vote analysis of Beto.

The report shows his voting record is heavy with repubs. You misunderstood the article, it is not an attack. It is a report.

How do you feel about the results of the report?

[Gothmog]

23. I love the panic by Sanders supporters

The fact that sanders supporters atr afraid of Beto amuses me

[George II]

58. "The report shows his voting record is heavy with repubs"....

That is false.

He's voted against Democrats (i.e., "with repubs." ) 5% of the time, the average House Democrat voted against Democrats (i.e., "with repubs." ) is 11%, more than twice as often as Beto O'Rourke.

The article doesn't say anything about that. The article is obviously an attack on O'Rourke.

If his voting record is "heavy with repubs" what do people think about the voting record of all the other House Democrats?

Edit: that article has just been updated - the link to ProPublica was for the 2013-2014 Congress, where that 5% vs. 11% appeared. It now is for the 2015-2016 Congress:

"Rep. O'Rourke voted against a majority of House Democrats 47 times (4.9%) in the 114th Congress (2015-16). The average House Democrat voted against his or her party 5.6% of the time." - still lower than the average House Democrat.

[mcar]

77. Kick for reality

Thank you George.

[R B Garr]

94. Wow, great work there, George. The fear of Beto

is really shedding light on the phony attacks on Democrats.

[treestar]

102. I was thinking just that

It only matters when compared with other Democrats. There are plenty of innocuous bills too.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

13. +1. n/t

[Equinox Moon]

15. How do you feel about Beto voting with republicans?

That is what the article is about.

[Gothmog]

26. I love watching sanders supporters being terrified of Beto

This fear is amusing

[LongtimeAZDem]

71. He does so far less than other prominent Democrats

He voted against the Party 8.2% of the time, the average House Democrat votes against his or her party 7.1% of the time.

By contrast, Elizabeth Warren voted against the Democrats 18.2% of the time; Kirsten Gillibrand did so 20.1%, Kamala Harris 15.8%. The average Senate Democrat votes against his or her party 10.3% of the time.

So, on this metric, it would appear that O'Rourke has a much better record than others being touted here.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

74. You missed this part of the article.

Capital & Main reviewed the 167 votes O’Rourke has cast in the House in opposition to the majority of his own party during his six-year tenure in Congress. Many of those votes were not progressive dissents alongside other left-leaning lawmakers, but instead votes to help pass Republican-sponsored legislation.

O’Rourke has voted for GOP bills that his fellow Democratic lawmakers said reinforced Republicans’ anti-tax ideology, chipped away at the Affordable Care Act (ACA), weakened Wall Street regulations, boosted the fossil fuel industry and bolstered Donald Trump’s immigration policy.

There’s a huge difference between dissenting for the liberal position and voting with repigs for the conservative position.

[LongtimeAZDem]

75. Didn't miss it; I admit that many of his votes went the other way. Washington is like that, when

you're trying to get things done, especially when you're a Democrat from Texas.

The naivete of the progressive purity squad is going to sink us if we don't grow up.

[George II]

85. He's voted "with republicans" far less than most other Democrats. The "with" or "against"....

...characterizations are highly subjective.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

31. Lol. This article is about Beto's voting record and his history of voting with repigs on key issues.

Sanders isnt even mentioned in the article.

Maybe I missed it. Nope. Luis Gutierrez is mentioned:

The Democratic congressman Luis Gutierrez, declared that:“Anyone who votes for this bill is voting to support and implement Donald Trump’s views on immigration, his desire to militarize our southern border, and his fantasy of a mass deportation force.”

O’Rourke opted to join Republicans in voting for the bill, which passed.

Let’s see. Sarah Palin is mentioned:

Republicans led by the former vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin soon pointed to the board as proof that Democrats were aiming to create “death panels”. As that mythology spread throughout conservative media, Republicans in 2015 and 2017 brought up legislation to stoke those fears and eliminate the board. O’Rourke defied his party and twice voted with Republicans to kill the board. He also officially co-sponsored both measures.

Center For American Progress. Still no Sanders:

Republicans began pressing a new package of tax cuts that Democratic groups such as the Center for American Progress deemed the “tax scam 2”. One piece of that package was a proposal that a critical Los Angeles Times editorial said “would carve out a new tax shelter for start-up businesses”. The Center for American Progress singled out those provisions as one of the objectionable aspects of the tax package.

As Democrats sought to present a unified front against the new GOP tax cuts, O’Rourke broke ranks with House Democrats – and most of the Texas Democratic delegation – to vote for the GOP legislation.

[Equinox Moon]

39. Thanks Hassin.

I have been totally confused by the comments about Bernie and such. I just don't get it why people are responding the way they are. I truly did not know about Beto's voting record and was surprised to learn about it.

[Gothmog]

60. I wonder why sanders supporters are so afraid of Beto?

I find this fear to be amusing

[Autumn]

63. Bernie lives rent free

I love this, almost as much as I love Beto! Or do I? Can a Bernie supporter support Bernie. What to do, what to do

[George II]

81. He's paying rent?

[melman]

87. you're not familiar with the expression to 'live rent free" in someone's head?

that's surprising. It's a pretty common one.

a good example would be the giraffe pic in your sig there..


this one here




the file name of which is...

https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1c5SAPXXXXXbzaXXXq6xXFXXXI/HI-Madagascar-giraffe-melman-anime-cosplay-costume.jpg_350x350 dot jpg

[George II]

79. You may want to look at his overall voting record as a Congressman - he's voted "against"....

...Democrats far less times than the average House Democrat. Plus the "against" is a misnomer.

Overall in his six years the average vote against Democrats for House Democrats is 215, his votes against Democrats is 167.

Of course, some can cherry pick a few votes here and there, but the reality is he votes with Democrats far more often than most Democrats.

Reality can be such a nuisance sometimes.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

40. Still looking for a Bernie reference

Found an NAACP and discriminatory practices reference. Does that count?

Republicans in 2015 introduced legislation to repeal that directive. Civil rights groups such as the NAACP opposed the GOP measure and House Democrats said it was designed to halt “recent actions to root out discriminatory practices among auto lenders”. The Obama White House said it strongly opposed the Republican bill.

O’Rourke nonetheless officially co-sponsored the bill and voted for it. Echoing the GOP’s line of attack on the CFPB,

[Gothmog]

61. Can you explain why Beto scares sanders supporters?

[Autumn]

66. Ask me. I'll be happy to tell you I'm crazy about Beto.

He's so damn adorable and speaks Spanish like a dream. He scares people but not Bernie supporters.

[George II]

80. I can, but..................

[Hassin Bin Sober]

46. still looking.

How about Volcker Rule and shielding banks from examiners? Does that count?

O’Rourke cast votes for GOP bills that included provisions weakening the so-called Volcker Rule, which aims to prevent financial firms from using depositors’ savings for their own speculative trading.

In 2017 and 2018, O’Rourke also voted for:

GOP legislation that Democrats said would empower financial institutions to shield themselves from bank examiners.
A package of Republican bills that Democrats said would reduce independent audits of corporations, deregulate stock exchanges and high-frequency trading.
A Republican bill to permit larger number of bank holding companies to take on more debt.
And a Republican bill that Democrats said would “eliminate meaningful, clear disclosures to consumers about their privacy rights, including their ability to opt-out from having their information sold to unaffiliated third party companies”.

[Gothmog]

48. The fact that bernie supporers are terrified of Beto and Senator Harris is amusing

[George II]

83. Since you decided to cherry pick only a few of O'Rourke's more than 2600 votes....

...since he's been in the House, why not list the votes of ALL Democrats for each of those votes? That might be illuminating to us here.

Thanks in advance!

[George II]

52. Indeed. Read the "fine print" of that study and you see that he votes WITH his party....

....more than most of his fellow Democrats in the House (his vote "against" the party is 5%, the average Democrat's vote "against" the party is 11%)!

[Eric J in MN]

59. That's a fair reaction if you also respond to negative articles

...about Bernie Sanders by saying that supporters of other candidates are afraid of him.

[Gothmog]

65. I think that sanders is busy selling his latest poorly reviewed book

I personally doubt that sanders will run in 2020 I would love to see sanders tax returns

[George II]

89. He's selling those books on big bad Amazon. In fact, he has his very own page on Amazon!!

[Gothmog]

93. Who is surprised by this?

[George II]

105. The price of the latest book has already been cut from $27.99 to $17.99 on Amazon.

[Gothmog]

106. Again, I am not surprised by this

It was a very poorly reviewed book

[Renew Deal]

7. Bernie was a gun supporter and no one seemed to care

[Equinox Moon]

9. This is about Beto's voting record.

What do you think about his record of voting with the repubs?

[Renew Deal]

12. Which votes do you object to?

[Equinox Moon]

14. I am going with the information of the article

that he votes with republicans supporting their agenda. I did not know he did that. Are you okay with that?

[Renew Deal]

16. It doesn't appear you know if it's true.

Are you okay with that?

[Equinox Moon]

18. The article is reporting on a report done by Capitial and Main, a non-profit.

I am not familiar with Capital and Main. I am trusting the Guardian to be reporting accurate information about a voting record analysis.

[Gothmog]

56. The Panic of sanders supporters is amusing

It seems that sanders supporters are really afraid of Beto

[EffieBlack]

70. How many times are you going to repeat this in this thread?

I think you made your point.

[Autumn]

95. Until people are convinced it's true?

[Gothmog]

108. The fact that sanders supporters are so afraid of Beto is really amusing to me

[Cha]

97. Beto is more progressive than Gabbard and

Kamala is more progressive than..

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

109. Gabbard is your congresscritter and so you would be familiar with her record

[shanny]

82. ooooh shiny object to chase over here!

[treestar]

101. Yep. It is a state issue

For him. Anyone from Texas has oil as a state issue. It’s not that simple.

[Renew Deal]

11. Beto has a lifetime ACU rating of 8.09. Bernie has a lifetime rating of 6.69

http://acuratings.conservative.org/acu-federal-legislative-ratings/?year1=2017&chamber=11&state1=0&sortable=7

Some other notables:

2.96 Booker
3.99 Gillibrand
0.00 Harris (1 year of service)
2.56 Pelosi
3.17 Warren

[NewJeffCT]

32. Gillebrand was pretty moderate when she was in the House

however, has become reliably progressive in the Senate. I know she's not popular on here, but it shows that the House voting record does not necessarily translate into their voting record in the Senate

[NewJeffCT]

17. Progressive Punch has him in the middle of the pack

among House Democrats as related to "crucial" votes. He's only a little behind Ted Lieu, Eric Swalwell and Adam Schiff.

https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?x=48&y=9&house=house&party=D&sort=crucial-lifetime&order=down

[Equinox Moon]

20. Thanks for the link.

I don't see his name listed on first view. I can look more at this later.

[NewJeffCT]

30. you have to scroll down the list

he's like #119 out of 195 or so.

[aidbo]

27. Wow. Helping to chip away at the CFPB? From the article:

In one instance, the Texas Democrat helped the GOP challenge the agency’s bulletin, which asserted its “authority to pursue auto lenders whose policies harm consumers through unlawful discrimination”.

Republicans in 2015 introduced legislation to repeal that directive. Civil rights groups such as the NAACP opposed the GOP measure and House Democrats said it was designed to halt “recent actions to root out discriminatory practices among auto lenders”. The Obama White House said it strongly opposed the Republican bill.

O’Rourke nonetheless officially co-sponsored the bill and voted for it. Echoing the GOP’s line of attack on the CFPB, the Democrat faulted the agency for a “lack of openness”, which he asserted had created “uncertainty, criticism of the CFPB’s conclusions, and has made loans more expensive to borrowers”. While O’Rourke later voted against using the Congressional Review Act to kill the CFPB’s regulation, the original bill he voted for set the stage for the GOP to repeal it under Trump.

[Equinox Moon]

38. What is CFPB?

[Eric J in MN]

55. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

It was proposed by Elizabeth Warren when she was a law professor and created by the Obama administration to regulate banking.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

57. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

Proposed and established by Elizabeth Warren. Authorized by Dodd-Frank legislation that repigs have, with some help apparently, been trying to kill since its inception.

Warren was blocked by repigs from being appointed by Obama to head it. Then she ran for Senate. Which was sweet revenge.

[aidbo]

91. It's the brainchild of Elizabeth Warren

And one of the successes of the Obama administration.
The consumer financial protection bureau.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Financial_Protection_Bureau

[treestar]

112. he gave a substantive reason

Are we required to believe perfection of all agencies enforcing laws we like? Any bureaucracy can get messed up.

[bearsfootball516]

28. It's amusing how terrified Bernie supporters are of Beto.

[LovingA2andMI]

68. Not Bernie Supporters for 2020....

Were in 2016 however, if this represents Beto's voting record, he will not make it pass a Democratic Presidential Primary. Those are the facts.

Meanwhile, there are plenty of other options: Kamala Harris, Amy Klobuchar, Adam Schiff, Eric Swalwell, Andrew Gillium.

Beto is not the end all be all and neither is Bernie.

[Autumn]

96. Should I start shaking?

[Jose Garcia]

29. Representatives are supposed to represent their districts

I suspect that there were a lot of voters in his district employed in the oil industry.

[Equinox Moon]

34. This is a logical response. Thanks.

[oberliner]

33. The senator who voted against Trump the most is Kirsten Gillibrand

Maybe folks will consider giving her another look.

[Equinox Moon]

35. Huh? I don't get it?

[oberliner]

36. In terms of analyzing how people in Congress voted during their tenure

Gillibrand has the highest anti-Trump score of any Senator.

[Equinox Moon]

37. That's good news to me.

It is off topic, but I like she is voting against trump.

[oberliner]

43. Yeah - it was a little off-topic plug for her

But the OP about O'Rourke's voting record is definitely interesting.

[Alhena]

41. Beto said he'd vote to impeach Trump - not many House members said that

That says more to me than Beto voting to favor the oil industry in a state that depends heavily on it.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

45. Whoa. His voting record kinda belies his progressive image...

Good info to have, thanks!

[FrankBooth]

49. Purity Test politics isn't going to work this cycle

The anti-Beto concern trolling is highly amusing.

IMO, this is a tale of two liberal candidates: One is young, engaging, open and charismatic ... the other is ancient, divisive, off-putting and played-out as a candidate. Neither are perfect, both have good and not-so-good qualities.

One has a real chance to be the Democratic nominee and the other does not, and in fact isn't even a member of the party. All this nonsensical purity test BS will not play out like it did last cycle. Sorry Berners -- it ain't happening.

[George II]

50. I don't understand the point of this. Did people overlook this....

....in the ProPublica summary of his votes?

Rep. O'Rourke voted against a majority of House Democrats 60 times (6.0%) in the 113th Congress (2013-14). The average House Democrat voted against his or her party 11.0% of the time.

https://projects.propublica.org/represent/members/O000170/votes-against-party/113

He has voted "against" his party about half as much as the average Democrat! Why don't people point that out?

This Beto-bashing is getting out of hand.

[Docreed2003]

69. Excellent post George...thank you!

[obnoxiousdrunk]

72. +1. n/t

[pamela]

54. Thank God this isn't "anti-democrate"

We sure wouldn't want thate.

[LongtimeAZDem]

62. :D /nt

[elleng]

64. Thanks. As FACTS are necessary,

I posed similarly.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016222146

[LovingA2andMI]

67. Things that make one ummm....

Beto O’Rourke frequently voted for Republican legislation, analysis reveals.

umm, ummm, ummmm.

[DFW]

73. One line gives this away

"Review of his six-year record in Congress shows Democrat frequently opposed own party,"

No matter how well they proofread their stuff, native speakers of Russian rarely catch everything. The Russian language does not have articles, and they therefore often leave them out (or use them sloppily) when trying to write or speak languages that have them.

When your language does not have "the" or "a," it takes a LOT of experience to know when to use them and when not to.

A native speaker of English might have written, "A review of his six-year record in Congress shows the Democrat frequently opposed his own party." "His own" and "own" are in this case one word in Russian ("свою" ), and a Russian speaker not 100% fluent in English would have been content with "own."

No matter what source this ended up being found at, it's origin yells Russian, and thus, to me at least, so does the intent of the original author. Someone on Savushinska street has been told to start knocking Beto down. All one has to do after that is ask whose interests it serves to do so.

[grantcart]

86. Good point

The other point is that Beto's campaign for Senate was unabashedly progressive, one of the most progressive of all Senate campaigns and in one of the most Republican states.

I believe he was the only Senate candidate stating that there was already enough evidence in hand for the House to move on impeachment.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

98. Does Mueller know about this? Have you contacted him?

[treestar]

110. Good catch.

[redstatebluegirl]

76. Not this purity crap again...

I guess some of the people in our party want to lose the white house again in 2020.

[hueymahl]

78. Your "concern" is noted

Any other Democrats you wish to denigrate?

[ismnotwasm]

84. I encourage anyone interested to do their own research

Here are the votes, from the article.

https://projects.propublica.org/represent/members/O000170/votes-against-party/113

There is a hyperlink to them, I know it’s a lot of work, but anything’s better than hyperbolic headlines and deliberate bias.

[Doremus]

92. Thanks for posting this. He'll get no votes from me.

If we have a snowball's chance in hell of saving this country we're going to need leaders who believe in their hearts that the only way to do it is to enact policies that benefit middle class people, not oligarchs.

[bearsfootball516]

103. So if he makes it to the general, you'll stay home?

[George II]

104. Even though he's voted "against" Democrats fewer times than most other Democrats?

The AVERAGE votes against Democrats by Democratic members over the last six years is 215, O'Rourke's voting record stands at 167. That's about three quarters of the AVERAGE, meaning half the Democratic members have voted even more than just 215 times in that period.

167 is looking pretty good now, isn't it?

[Cha]

99. FYI Beto is more "progressive" than Gabbard and

and Kamala is more "progressive" than..

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[treestar]

100. So he did not support polygraph

Tests for hiring? They are not known to be accurate.

[Maven]

107. LOL. Sirota?

Starting the Bernie ratf*ck dance early, are we?

[Equinox Moon]

113. I am taking down this heavily trolled thread.

It is so unfortunate a mature discussion could not take place.