Prominent Sanders backer (James Zogby): There's no war on Beto, but charisma ≠ progressivism

[Yosemito]

The board member of Our Revolution tweeted that there is no war on Beto, a reference to a recent NBC NEWS article. But he used the opportunity to note that Beto is no Bernie:

Link to tweet

?s=21

[ismnotwasm]

1. Hahahahahaha

[TexasTowelie]

2. !!!

[R B Garr]

16. I LOL'd!

[RandySF]

3. And 28 years in Congress does not mean you've accomplished anything

[emulatorloo]

5. Well, those post-offices won't rename themselves

[Gothmog]

22. From Prof. Tribe

Link to tweet

[PaulX2]

54. He's Not Larry

Why aren't you being more honest?

Someone has to take on the billionaires. No one else seems to want to.

It doesn't pay as good.....

[Gothmog]

60. That tweet is from Professor Tribe

Not everyone approves of the attacks on Beto

[Gothmog]

62. An explanation from Prof Tribe

Link to tweet

?s=20

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

77. It's getting old... fortunately, not many are falling for it.

[Cha]

4. James Zogby is telling us to

disbelieve our own eyes. We saw and heard what they were spouting at The Gathering.. and all over twitter.

Damn straight Beto is no BS.. BS fan Sirota tries to smear him with President Obama. lol

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Backfiring Already.

[RandySF]

7. Sirota blocked me on Twitter

When i reminded him of the time he was fired from a campaign job for misconduct

[Cha]

8. Thank You for reminding him, RSF.

[xor]

70. He blocked me awhile ago too.

I wasn't even being hostile or anything warranting a block.

[BannonsLiver]

18. Anyone who thinks we don't need more Obama years is a fucking idiot

If you don’t get it after the last 2 years you are in fact a moron.

[uponit7771]

45. AMEN!!

[Cha]

50. Obama finished with a ***95%*** approval rating among Democrats,

Link to tweet

[Cha]

52. P.S His approval is in the 60s in the whole country.

Link to tweet

[mcar]

39. I'm with Joan Walsh on this one

I have other potential candidates I prefer, but I think Beto is great and has a brilliant future in Democratic politics ahead of him.

The hatred and negativity will not work this time.

[Cha]

48. Yeah, I haven't chosen

a candidate yet.. heck I chose Obama right before Iowa!

But, in the backfiring department I've been sticking up for Beto because of the crap that's out there by well known idiots like Sirota.

[PaulX2]

55. I'm A Bernie Supporter Who Likes And Donated To Beto

We can all get along.

[PatSeg]

75. We have so many excellent choices this time

I'm staying open and receptive. The chosen nominee probably will be someone we least expect at this point anyway. Meanwhile, I don't want to start fighting the primaries so early. I can already feel the familiar contention rising to the surface and I'm dreading it.

[mcar]

82. That's how I feel too

I hope the candidates don't beat each other up but run on their records and ideas. I have no hope that the supporters of some of the candidates will act like adults.

[PatSeg]

83. It is important that we remember

what and who we are fighting and not lash out at one another. I think people get so used to being angry and combative, that they can't stop fighting when they should be working together.

Once the primaries start, my use of DU will be very selective and limited. I learned my lesson years ago.

[Pope George Ringo II]

6. Beto is no Bernie, it's true.

I'd vote for Beto. Again.

[TexasTowelie]

28. +1

I didn't beat the people in El Paso, but I voted for him in the primary, the runoff, and the general election this year. Damn, it's becoming a habit.

[NastyRiffraff]

47. Beto is no Bernie

And that's a GOOD thing. I don't know who I'll support in the primaries, but I'd happily vote for Beto in the general if he makes it that far (and, of course, if he even decides to run).

I feel comfortable saying I'll never vote for Bernie, because he'll never make it to the general and I certainly wouldn't support him in a primary. I hope the Democratic party doesn't let him pull the same stunt as in 2016 and allow him to run as a Democrat when he isn't one.

[PaulX2]

56. Bernie Is More Of My Kind Of Roosevelt Democrat

Not a modern democrat.

That's why I support him.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

59. Me too!! Beto is no Bernie, that's fo sho...no, Bernie is the progressive who can defeat the Dotard.

[Demsrule86]

73. I do not support Sen. Sanders even though I voted for him last time.

And while he caucuses with us, he is not a Democrat of any sort.

[Cha]

9. Call it what you want, Zogby.. no one is as scared of Beto as you

all.

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

10. "People sometimes don't see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama.

He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy, but beyond that reality... ."

Sounds familiar.

[Cha]

13. Yeah, I remember that.. and his

fans twisting to explain what BS "actually meant".

[JI7]

21. yup, all the attacks are the same we have heard about Obama, Hillary, even going back to Gore and

probably before that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

25. They hate Obama for some reason. Michael Moore had the temerity to say that Barack Obama would be...

remembered for being the first black POTUS, but not much beyond that. Quite honestly, I think Beto can appeal to folks that Sanders, Moore, Sirota & Sarandon could never reach.

[betsuni]

29. I agree Beto can appeal, he's not negative and playing to people's ignorance and fear.

[Cha]

53. [phone]!

[JI7]

31. they hate OBama because he cut into their profits . they made a lot of money from angry democrats

during the BUsh years. Obama took that away because instead of buying shit they are selling democrats started to look to voting .

Beto will be tougher because he is white so they wont be able to appeal to the racists as much as they did with Obama.

[emulatorloo]

43. From Nate Silver

Link to tweet

[peggysue2]

44. Bingo!

Yet they persist. The Chapo Trap House reportedly has a podcast that makes the anger toward Beto O'Rourke very clear, declaring Beto the 'white Obama,' an attempt (according to a Vanity Fair article) that this is the Democratic Establishment's attempt to put a cool veneer on that boogie man . . . Centrism.

And so, Beto O'Rourke is being framed as 'the Davos Democrat on a skateboard.'

If I remember correctly this was the same group who said Democrats would have to 'take a knee' if the party wanted their support.

Because they're decidedly not members of the Democratic Party.

Sound familiar???

[NurseJackie]

11. ...

[Adrahil]

12. When one says something like that...

Everything thing you said before "but" doesn't count.

There is fear in Bernieland.

[Cha]

14. There definitely is and

it should be more than just about Beto.

[WeekiWater]

15. This is all starting to make me think...

Biden isn’t running but is going to come out with an early Beto endorsement and campaign for him. I’m really confident in my thought that if Biden, Beto and Sanders enter, it only helps Sanders. I personally think that the larger the field the better for Sanders.

[ProudLib72]

17. Good grief

We can add James Zogby to the list of Our Revolution people who...

[grantcart]

19. If people would bother to read that he has wisdom beyond his years

Not progressive? Ha

He is the first one to state clearly there is enough to impeach

Something every DUer knows to be true.

[Gothmog]

20. CNN-Bernie Sanders supporters should worry about Beto

Harry Enten has some good analysis https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/14/politics/bernie-sanders-beto-orourke-supporters-2020/index.html

The Beto O'Rourke 2020 train seems to be gaining steam. Those backing other potential candidates want donors and pundits to slow their Beto roll, however.

Among the most prominent critics are supporters of Vermont independent Sen. Bernie Sanders who believes the Texan isn't progressive enough.

Sanders fans have at least some reason to worry. O'Rourke or really any other candidate with outsider appeal could eat into Sanders' base of young, independent-leaning voters.

If Sanders is going to win in 2020, he'll need to hold onto his support from 2016. He won more than 40% of the national primary vote, though he lost by low double-digits to Clinton national

[TJKatd]

24. I saw MN Senator Amy Klobuchar...

Last edited Mon Dec 24, 2018, 12:31 PM - Edit history (2)

in an interview last week. I came away very impressed. She was thoughtful, reasonable, and totally up-to-speed on the topics that she was asked about.

None of the potential 2020 candidates have grabbed my attention, so I'm completely persuadable at this point. I'd probably be on board with Biden because I think he's probably the most electable, but, frankly, he's too old. I like Sanders too, but , again, too old. And for the third frontrunner, Robert O'Rourke, I can't explain it, I just don't like him. I guess I just find him too pretentious, and he couldnt beat a thoroughly unlikeable Senator in Cruz.

As for all the others, I just b can't get fired u up about them.

For 2020, the big, big thing for me is electability. I'm willing to give up a little on issues in exchange for electability. Democratic purity is worthless if the candidate cant win.

Give Klobuchar a serious look.

[TexasBushwhacker]

41. I like her a lot n/t

[calimary]

64. "Democratic purity is worthless if the candidate can't win" Absolutely!!!

That is IT in a nutshell.

[Renew Deal]

79. Does it matter how "progressive" Bernie is if he's unelectable?

[Gothmog]

87. I also think that sanders is unelectable

[Gothmog]

23. From Governor Howard Dean

Link to tweet

[Cha]

27. Yep.. Good to hear from Dean..

Link to tweet

It certainly has helped Beto from what I see on twitter.. their scared tactics have backfired.

This was Sirota before he saw Beto was a threat to BS..

Link to tweet

[lapucelle]

33. Does he actually need to be told why floating the name of freshman who has yet to serve a day

in the House for the third highest party leadership position is a bad idea?

[Cha]

46. Yes, Sirota needs to be schooled,

badly!

[calimary]

65. No kidding!!!!!

[smirkymonkey]

69. +1000

[OKNancy]

26. I want to win. I want to beat Trump

More than anything. If our candidate is not 100% for everything I would like, but is someone who could win, then that's all I need.
Winning is everything. Trump MUST be defeated.

So, who of the two mentioned could win? No way could Bernie Sanders win a general election.

[calimary]

66. Agreed.

Bernie can’t win a general election. Too risky. Too many pitfalls. Already proven.

[guruoo]

30. Hoping that nobody would click the link, I guess

Last edited Mon Dec 24, 2018, 06:17 AM - Edit history (1)

Link to tweet

James J. Zogby
?Verified account @jjz1600

A few points: ⁦there is no war; OurRevolution,⁩ Nat’l & State, endorsed #Beto for Senate; he doesn’t compete w/ #Bernie - charisma doesn’t = principled progressive politics; stop making every comment about Beto’s record into a “war.”

[Crazyleftie]

34. the reality is that O'Rourke has a record that's somewhat more conservative than that of most of

his Democratic colleagues......just saying.......

[dansolo]

40. Bernie supporters are concerned that Beto will take his youth support

Bernie has to rely on the fickle youth demographic. His followers are concerned that Beto will draw them away. The irony is that the big push against older politicians is probably what is going to increase support for Beto away from Sanders.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

57. True dat! Don't know why that's controversial... candidates should just be genuine and open about

their positions and voters will decide. It's not complicated.

[Renew Deal]

81. Which votes are you concened with?

[xor]

71. Can you elaborate on this some more?

Maybe I just haven't seen it yet, but I haven't seen a whole lot of conservative stances coming from Beto. It might also be that we have different ideas of where the "conservative" line is drawn. Hard to say without some concrete examples of what you're thinking of.

[Paladin]

35. Bernie forces: You're protesting way too much, trying to sell this "no Beto war" thing.

It's already getting tiresome.

[Cha]

61. Not sure why they think we can't see

what's going on with our own eyes?

They aren't trying to Gaslight, are they? Zogby?

[MFGsunny]

36. hey Zog, how about STFU ... we see right thru ya

[ananda]

37. Sorry dude but Beto has it all!

..

[mcar]

38. Some people have learned nothing from 2016

[Gothmog]

42. from my twitter feed

Link to tweet

[Cha]

49. Yeah, I'm thinking that even if Beto

doesn't run there are plenty of his fans who will eagerly vote for someone else in the primary besides BS

[shenmue]

51. Beto is very charismatic. Did this person see anything about his campaign?

[xor]

72. I think he's trying to say that Beto is a likable fella, but he isn't a true progressive.

I would like to see some folks expand on where they think he falls short in their mind. Hard to get concrete examples from people. Which makes it difficult to have productive discussions. I find the motives of some questionable when their primary gripes are similar to those that Sirota made about Beto receiving donations from a lot of folks who work at oil & gas companies, and then trying to twist that into some dishonest smear of him being beholden to energy companies. That sort of behavior comes off as very similar to the nonsense we see from Trump cultist. It's less to do with what's right and more to do with worship of their candidate.


*I don't dislike Bernie, nor do I think Beto is the guy. Beto may be awful, but there hasn't been many compelling arguments against him in my opinion.

[Squinch]

63. I'm not saying Our Revolution is trolling.

I'm just saying the trolls think Our Revolution is trolling.

[Demsrule86]

74. I dislike our revolution and would never vote for any of their candidates in a primary.

They don't like Democrats clearly.

[JHan]

67. cool story, bro.

[GulfCoast66]

68. These are the people that booed John Lewis in 2016

They booed John Lewis. Greatest living American.

There is no one they will not attack if seen as a threat.

[Snotcicles]

84. Do you have proof of that or did you just pull that out of your ass? nt

[GulfCoast66]

85. Did not need to pull it out my ass. We all saw it. Democratic Primary 2016.

Lewis rose to endorse our candidate and was booed. And not by our candidates supporters.

I guess you were not watching. Or did you just forget what you saw?

[Snotcicles]

86. I remember. That group was pissed at Lewis for dissing Bernie's civil rights activisim. nt

[GulfCoast66]

89. I'm guessing Mr. Google refreshed your memory?

And now you understand why many members of the Democratic Party have no problem believing that ‘that group’, who booed civil rights icon and greatest living American, on national TV, at the Democratic Convention, would have no qualms about attacking a congressman from Texas.

A whole shit ton of Democratic Party members have not forgotten the unforgivable act of ‘that group’. Booing John Lewis is beyond the pale.

[Snotcicles]

90. I think you are all hyperventilating. Bernie Sanders was the best candidate in 2016.

John Lewis can stand up to a few boos. And your guess was wrong.

[GulfCoast66]

93. John Lewis handled getting his skull smashed protesting for the vote

He can certainly handle the boos.

The point is that we we given an inside look at the character and priorities of ‘that group’ that summer night in 2016.

Their character left much to be desired and their priorities were not the improvement of the Democratic Party.

People who would boo John Lewis are not the type of democrats we need more of.

And Since you bring up Bernie, let me remind you what he did while ‘that group’ was booing John Lewis: sat there with a shit eating grin.

We in the South will not forget nor forgive. John Lewis is as great an American as live now. And a member of the Democratic Party.

[Snotcicles]

94. Have a good life. nt

[betsuni]

91. All Lewis said was that he didn't remember Sanders, didn't meet him.

Why would he? Many young people were active in civil rights at the time. Did that group think Lewis was lying or something?

[Gothmog]

96. I was at the convention and I saw the booing and worst behavior

I was a Clinton delegate to the national convention. Real campaigns carefully vet their delegates. I know that I was vetted and I was on a committee that vetted other delegates. The reason for this vetting is that (a) all delegates including pledged delegates has the power to vote for the candidate of their choice and (b) a campaign's delegates reflect on the campaign. All Clinton delegates were warned to be on our best behavior because our conduct would reflect on the candidate.

The Clinton campaign had a very well organized whipping infrastructure. Early on, we were prepared for a series of floor votes on credentials and platform issues. On the first night of the convention, I was warned by my whip that there would be a planned stunt by the sanders delegates where they would boo Congressman John Lewis. I got this text about 20 to 30 minutes before Congressman John Lewis was to be introduced. According to my whip, sanders was asked to stip this stunt and he declined.

There was really nasty booing of Congressman John Lewis at the convention when he was introduced including some nasty shouts from the sanders delegates.

[janterry]

76. Bernie is no Beto

I supported Bernie last time. This time, if Beto tosses his cap in - I'll support him.

[womanofthehills]

92. Same here, I really like Bernie, but I want someone new - I love Beto and Kamala

I'm so impressed with Beto's compassion at the border.

[Renew Deal]

78. Why are there any "comments" when neither of them are running?

[Renew Deal]

80. "progressivism" ≠ leadership

[Gothmog]

88. This NYT article explains why sanders supporrters are worried about Beto

Link to tweet

Further, the political consulting firm led by three of Mr. Sanders’s top digital aides from the last campaign — Kenneth Pennington, Hector Sigala and Elizabeth Bennett — worked for Mr. O’Rourke’s Senate bid and are hoping to work on his presidential campaign should he run, according to a Democratic strategist familiar with the firm’s thinking.

Two veterans of Mr. Sanders’s 2016 campaign, Becky Bond and Zack Malitz, were instrumental this year in helping to organize Mr. O’Rourke’s race against Senator Ted Cruz. Both said they are eager to be a part of any “Beto for President’’ effort.

“I don’t know if Beto is going to run, but if he does I’m all in,” said Ms. Bond.

Mr. Malitz added: “I want Beto to run and would want to work on that campaign.”

[Gothmog]

95. Why the Bernie Movement Must Crush Beto O'Rourke

Here is another good article on the reason why sanders supporters are attacking Beto http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/bernie-sanders-beto-orourke-feud-2020-campaign-democratic.html

The rise of Beto O’Rourke poses an obvious threat. The Texas congressman has replicated aspects of Sanders’s appeal — his positivity and refusal to accept PAC money — while exceeding it in some ways. Sanders is charismatic in an unconventional way, the slovenly and cranky but somewhat lovable old uncle, while O’Rourke projects a classic handsome, toothy, Kennedy-esque charm that reliably makes Democrats swoon. Hard-core loyalists find the contrast irksome. “Reading Karl Marx is cool,” said Nomiki Konst, a Sanders loyalist and candidate for New York City public advocate, to NBC. “Doing a livestream while you’re doing your laundry is a gimmick.” The comment sums up the left’s well-grounded fear that Sanders’s hard-core ideological appeal can be easily disarmed with personal charisma.

And while O’Rourke has yet to decide on a presidential campaign, and would have to overcome an enormous field if he does, the Sandernistas are hardly paranoid to discern the kind of groundswell that could quickly propel O’Rourke to the front of the pack. Former Obama strategist and current Pod Save America host Dan Pfeiffer wrote a piece urging O’Rourke to run (without endorsing him). O’Rourke reportedly met with Obama, who favored him with public praise. “What I liked most about his race was that it didn’t feel constantly poll-tested,” Obama said. “It felt as if he based his statements and his positions on what he believed.”

What Obama is describing here is O’Rourke’s ability to speak naturally and with apparent conviction — one never knows if a politician is expressing genuine conviction or just performing it well — without taking hard-left policy stances. O’Rourke’s short career has allowed him to avoid being pinned down on every item in the party platform. He generally occupies the center of the Democratic Party, and often expresses broad sympathy for left-wing policy goals while suggesting he favors a more pragmatic alternative. On health care, he advocates “achieving universal health care coverage — whether it be through a single-payer system, a dual system, or otherwise — so that we can ensure everyone is able to see a provider when it will do the most good and will deliver health care in the most affordable, effective way possible.”

One of the deeper strategic goals of the left is to equate progressive maximalism with authenticity, like Sanders did. They want candidates who take uncompromising left-wing positions to be seen as authentic, and candidates who adopt more moderate lines to be seen as calculating and phony. The socialist left will attack any non-Sanders candidate, but O’Rourke is especially dangerous to their project precisely because of his Obama-like personal appeal.