Post removed

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

1. Perhaps, although this would be not very nice,

Democrats ought to publicize all those murdered by natural born citizens. Most, maybe all of the mass murders in recent years have been by citizens. Mainly white males, and I don't see much of a movement to banning that group.

[Demsrule86]

3. It would be pointless.

Border security is what is needed ...not a wall.

[calimary]

19. There IS a point to be made here, though. It's cautionary.

This IS what the CONS will try to impose as a talking point. This is one of their VERY likely go-to bullshit “explanations” or persuasion lines or spun.

There’s value here in bringing it up - so we know what to look and listen for. It’s good to have a heightened awareness of this stuff. It’s a manipulation. Watch for it. And be ready with a slap-back. Or a fact-check. Or some other form of debunking the bulkshit they just tried to sell you.

It’s good to be aware of these subtle tricks and cheats. Forewarned is forearmed.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

22. You are right.

Which is exactly why the citizenship of all those who perpetrate mass murder -- Las Vegas, Sandy Hook, Parkland, just to name three recent shootings -- why the citizenship of the shooters should be widely mentioned.

Murder in all forms is largely a home grown affair.

[grumpyduck]

34. We need to stop responding

to what these people are saying -- letting them drive the narrative -- and start creating our own narrative. Put those statistics up there. Change the narrative from "the wall" to "crime and violent crime," which is where it should be. Then let the questions begin. Eventually people will begin to notice.

We need to finally learn that the best defense is a good offense. IOW, we need some leadership. And I don't see a helluva lot of it.

[albacore]

40. I just did that...

I put the stats and the reality out there on FB.

Those people pay NO attention to either stats or reality.

I posted this... and those people just go on with their shit.

[grumpyduck]

42. Thank you, and good for you.

Some people will still refuse to see facts, but hopefully your FB post will go viral and raise some questions. We need more of that.

We need to change the narrative and take the lead. If our so-called "representatives" won't do it, then We The People need to do it. And no, I am not putting Democrats down.

[EffieBlack]

44. These people pay no attention to facts or reality, so let's appeal to their fear and ignorance

Yeah. That's the ticket...

[Demsrule86]

2. No. We do not assume responsibility for that which is not our fault...two different issues

and a wall would not have prevented anything...do we see the GOP take responsibility for the hate murders or gun murders which are certainly their fault because of the constant race baiting and bad gun laws? No, we don't. This sound suspiciously like a right wing talking point. We can't dance to their tune.

[allgood33]

10. It's a matter of perception by the voting public on both sides. Comprehensive changes are needed

and we must push for that instead of a failing wall. DACA must be included.

[Demsrule86]

17. I do not cater to false perception...the GOP does that endlessly...best to state your case and not

be wishy washy enough to fall for their tricks. They tried to get rid of Nancy, they demonized Hillary and Bill for years...sick of their shit. NO WALL period.

[rzemanfl]

15. Suspicously indeed. n/t

[Demsrule86]

18. The GOP righties were all saying this shit on their blogs and on TV too.

Not falling for it. We counter it with ...a wall would do nothing to help in these situations and would bankrupt this country.

[marble falls]

4. For one thing people aren't illegal. They can be undocumented. "illegal worker" is a ...

dog whistle for racists.

[FM123]

28. You are right, and to call someone an "illegal" is truly dehumanizing

[Kaleva]

5. Just because you wish it to be harder does not make it so.

The vast majority of people murdered in the US are victims of US citizens. The reason weapons are easy for criminals to gain possession of is also because of US citizens.

[WeekiWater]

7. The wall is intellectually lazy and a symbol of hate.

This tragedy doesn’t change our case in one single way.

[Skidmore]

8. Ya know, it's past time to tell people

that American citizens murder.

[Squinch]

9. Oh, Jesus. "An illegal?" Really? And this incident has ANYTHING to do with the damn wall?

Shaking my head. They're coming out of the woodwork.

[allgood33]

11. It's not about your head or my head. It's about voters' heads and how to get to a comprehensive

fair, and effective immigration system. The wall is not the answer but we cede power to Trump is we do not grab the framing of this recent sad killing and make it our rationale for a better immigration system.

[Squinch]

12. I can see you're terribly concerned about the problems with "the illegals."

[marble falls]

16. Seriously????

[Demsrule86]

20. We don't do anything of the sort because their will be no such laws enacted with a

Republican majority in the Senate and a Republican president...they would merely use it against us.

[EffieBlack]

25. You can't possibly be serious

"grab the framing of this recent sad killing and make it our rationale for a better immigration system."

We don't exploit tragedies that way. That's how Republicans do their politics, as I'm sure you already know ...

[H2O Man]

41. We obviously have

to re-think our pro-murder plank of the party platform. I'm very, very concerned about this. Plus, there's a little chicken running about my lawn, screaming that the sky is falling!!! What if it snows?

[uponit7771]

30. right ?!

[beachbum bob]

13. not related at all. Trump and foxnews will run with it, but democrats CANNOT submit to extortion

not now, not ever. Keep the govt shutdown. Dems in the House should tie every liberal poison pill to every appropriations bill until trump gives in.....

[sinkingfeeling]

14. How about we just publicize all the murders committed by citizens

with past criminal backgrounds? Or even all those committed by a particular Christian sect?
It matters not where a person comes from anymore than his first name or age or religion.

Those who think any wall will protect them from murder or other crimes, are fools.

[uponit7771]

31. +1

[NRaleighLiberal]

21. Ratio of murders daily between this type of instance vs citizens?

Of course what happened will make for a right wing talking point, but it will be a bullshit one.

***Sigh***

[RandiFan1290]

23. Welcome Back to DU!

If you want your wall you can pay for it yourself.

[EffieBlack]

24. Human beings aren't "illegals"

But your concern is noted.

[NoMoreRepugs]

26. 17k+ murders and non negligent manslaughters occur in

the US per year ..... if a 20billion dollar wall is going to supposedly stop a handful.... how much $$ and what is going to prevent the rest?

We might have to break it down to something that simplistic to counter the Riech Wings bullshit talking point.

Just spitballin' here.

[walkingman]

27. Nope, the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

The only thing that is different is the victim was a cop. The criminal rate for illegal is acuallyquite lower than the general public.

[samnsara]

29. is the wall going to protect us from domestic terrorism?..nope!

.. I am NOT scared of the occasional undocumented who does bad things. What scares me are the wacko americans with arsenals.

[kentuck]

32. Walls are obsolete and a waste of money.

We can guard our borders with technology, with GPS, cameras, phones, and even satellites. We need to have stations to process people looking for asylum, etc, but we do not need walls.

[Squinch]

33. And you seem to know enough to edit your post to stay ahead of the alerts. That's quick learning!

[H2O Man]

35. silly

[JI7]

36. it's the fucking guns

[workinclasszero]

37. White right wing gun humping males are the greatest threat to all Americans

When the hell are they going to be deported huh?

[PubliusEnigma]

38. No, it isn't. But thanks for letting us know where you stand on the issue.

There will be no Wall. Don't you know this already?

[Iggo]

39. All right, I'm sick of this shit.

An illegal?

Bye!

[SidDithers]

43. Uh huh...

Sid

[greatauntoftriplets]

45. Oy.

[sarcasmo]

46. #NoWallEver