Nader killed the Corvair

[Guppy]

The Corvair was no more dangerous than any other car in its time. The original was vindicated by a NHTSA report in '72 and the later version 65-69 was a magnificent car. The closest the U.S. came to building a Porsche. Here is the NHTSA report and the Yenko Stinger which was a race car.

https://www.corvair.org/index.php/history-and-preservation/unsafe-at-any-speed

&t=250s

[WhiteTara]

1. Nadir worked with the car companies to

kill small car manufacturing in the US. Everyone started buying Japanese after Nadir's attack.

[Guppy]

3. Probably true

Think how bad Vega's and Pinto's were. Look how great Corvair's were.

[Guppy]

4. except video was a logical extension. Nader killed a very dependable car. n/t

[dawg day]

5. My great-granddad never forgave him for that--

He loved his Corvair.

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. Neither did my dad. My first car and second, corvairs. 63 coupe and 65 Monza.

[SharonAnn]

41. Loved my first car, a '63 Corvair. Ran great, always started in subzero weather, always drove well

Ran great, always started in subzero weather, always drove well in snow.

I was in Northern Iowa with very subzero weather and lots of snow in the winter.

I could get my car started when others couldn't and could drive it almost anywhere while others were slipping and sliding.

I did have seat belts installed in the front since they weren't standard in 1963.

[TreasonousBastard]

6. The Corvair was never any Porsche, but there were plenty of guys out there who...

would play with the suspensions of stock ones and solve whatever problems they had. I knew a couple of them and they never Nadered the car no matter how hard they drove them.

IIRC, all you really had to do was stick a sway bar in the back. I think GM eventually did that themselves.

[Guppy]

12. watch the video

from Jay Leno. Thee Yenko stiunger was great. There was no problem with the 65-69. Fully independent suspension.

[TreasonousBastard]

15. I watched the video-- the Stinger was highly modified and had little to do with...

stock Corvairs.

Kinda like how the Cosworth Vega wasn't the sort of thing you find in the A&P parking lot.

[Guppy]

18. I had a datsun 510

this was a great car. It was one of the great SCCA racing cars. legendary. My daily driver is an original Audi S4. Another legendary car.

&t=628s

The Audi has the legendary AAN 5 cylinder 20 valve turbo that won all the races in 1989 in the Audi 90. Mine has 232,000 miles with the original clutch and alternator. I just replaced the original starter. This is a 24 year old car.

https://www.quattroworld.com/speed-week/the-worlds-fastest-audi-242mph-audi-s4/

[Hotler]

39. Those are cool cars, I always liked them. NT

[Guppy]

43. My friend had a great saying

Beat a porsche downhill

[Hotler]

48. I like small engines making gobs of power.......

they have a sound, a feel and excitement that's fun.

[Guppy]

53. The best sound are the

20valve 5 cylinder Audi AAN engine on the Audi 90 and the 92- 96 Audi S4 and S6.

[Guppy]

63. I guess those corvairs couldn't compete with Porsches

watch james Reeves pass them at road atlanta..

&t=199s


These are all race cars. My point is that corvairs could compete when they are modified as all race cars are.

[ProudLib72]

32. Wheeler Dealers did an episode about this

Early Corvairs had weird handling. There is a pretty simple fix that Chevy came up with for the later models, and it is an easy retrofit for the earlier models. And, yes, as I recall from the episode it is basically a sway bar.

Here's the link to the the episode listing:
http://wheelerdealers.discoveryuk.com/episode/season-13/chevy-corvair/

[Guppy]

44. Second version

Had independent suspension totally different

[ProudLib72]

58. Here you go

There is no doubt that the early Corvair’s semi-independent swing-axle rear suspension was a handful. It generated wide camber angle changes which tended to induce oversteer in extreme situations. An anti-sway bar was added to the mix and Corvair engineers dictated low pressure in the front tires and high pressure in the rear tires to help offset the suspension’s twitchy-at-the-limit nature. Such wide differences in pressure was unheard of at the time and many owners did not follow the recommendation.

The second-gen Corvair featured a reworked fully independent suspension more akin to the Corvette that alleviated the oversteer and made the Corvair a great handling car by any measure.

http://www.inmygarage.com/the-chevrolet-corvair-flop-or-success/

Wheeler Dealers made it sound like this was the only difference. I guess they were referring to the upgrade of the anti-sway bar that was added mid way through the first generation and not to the complete revamp of the rear suspension in the second gen.

[Freddie]

8. Green Party

Getting Republicans Elected Every November

[brush]

35. Every November? I only hear about them every November of presidential elections...

so they can help the repugs win the WH.

They've had how many years since 2000 to build a real, functioning grassroots operation to run for local and state offices but we rarely hear anything from them during off-year or even mid-term elections (and they actually go back before 2000).

Apparently their mission is not to build a real party but to make siphon off Dem votes every four years.

[dalton99a]

10. +1

[GoneOffShore]

36. The Greens are the cicadas of American politics.

They show up every four years, make a lot of noise, clutter up the landscape, leave unattractive remains and damage everywhere.

[Guppy]

13. That was my point.

Nader is an ass.

[Hoyt]

11. We had one of the original ones. It was a fun car to drive. I still like and drive small cars.

The only issue I remember with our Corvair was that activating the heater pumped burning oil smell into the cabin.

[ret5hd]

14. Dooga dooga dooga dooga dooga?

[kentuck]

17. My cousin and a friend were driving about 90mph in one...

...and it left the road and cut the tree tops.

[Guppy]

20. Read the reports. It was just as safe as any other car at the time.

[JohnnyRingo]

24. The earliest models suffered wheel hop

On a tight turn at speed the independent rear suspension would wind up with tension called wheel jacking. When it released, the rear wheel would break traction setting the car up for an out of control situation and a chance for rolling. It was an easy fix though and later Corvairs handled like a sports car, at least an American sports car. Racers installed an anti-sway bar, something GM could have done themselves.

The Triumph Spitfire had a similar problem in the early marks and went on to be very popular. While the Corvair was an easy and inexpensive fix, GM did what corporations do, they went on a propaganda offensive against Nader. The Corvair was likely discontinued because it became an enduring symbol of a death trap, the same reason Ford killed the Pinto nameplate.

[Historic NY]

26. Sway bars would have stopped it in the beginning but GM was cheap...

the retrofit program took care of it.

[Guppy]

46. Untrue

porsche and vw had the same suspension. Second version was independent suspension which is still to this day the standard for performance cars

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. Fuck Ralph Nader.

[Guppy]

21. my point exactly.

[JohnnyRingo]

22. I had a '67 in high school.

It was the 140hp version with four single barrel carbs and a four speed. I put big 8.25X7 tires on the rear and baby moons all around. Looked nice in maroon and drove great.

Unfortunately, Chevy designed it with a shroud around the cylinders to draw cabin heat. When the push-rod seals began to leak it dripped oil on the hot cylinder jugs, pumping heavy blue smoke into the passenger compartment. By the time I got to school on a winter's day I looked like a Cheech & Chong promo with smoke pouring out the open window. I fixed it in the spring, one of my first experiences as a back yard mechanic.

Other than that, there was a weak link in the drive train. The engine was in the rear with the differential just ahead of it. The transmission was even in front of that, so the power went through the diff to the trans then back through a hollow shaft to the differential. Power shifts to 2nd gear would shatter the differential like a glass chandelier. Fortunately, the engine was easy to drop down onto a spare tire and the local junk yard had dozens in stock. I got so I could do it in a couple hours.

Loved that car. It had character.

[MineralMan]

23. I once owned a 1960 2-door Corvair.

I bought it for $100 in 1969. It was red. Ran great, too. I drove it everywhere, and never once had any problem with that oversteer issue. That's because I never drove it anywhere near its limits. It wasn't fast. It wasn't a sports car. It was a small, rear-engine coupe.

I liked it OK. I drove it for about six months. Then I polished the paint up, cleaned the engine compartment, made it look nice and sold it to someone for $350. See, I found this 1959 Austin Healy bugeye Sprite in a barn, and wanted that car, which I bought for just $200.

I didn't keep cars long back then, but I sure enjoyed them.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Corvair if you drove it like a normal person. Nothing. It was an innovative design that had a lot going for it.

Nader's a creep!

[brush]

37. The bugeye Sprite was the real keeper.

[MineralMan]

45. Yes. I wish I still had it.

However, I kept it for about three months. I painted it myself, did some minor repairs, and sold it for $500. Sadly, the person who bought it managed to run it into a tree on a back road and total it. What a shame.

I replaced it with a 1959 BMC Mini. That was also a wonderfully fun little car. i should have kept it, too.

[brush]

47. Oh, those things were a terror on wheels for the unexpecting who challenged them.

Fast as hell.

[MineralMan]

50. The Minis? Yes, indeed.

The one I had had a 1275cc engine that had been swapped into it, tuned pretty hot. The one time I remember best was on a very winding mountain road, downhill. I was just trucking along at a fast, but modest speed, when a bathtub Porsche, also from the 50s came up from behind. The driver wasn't all that amused with my pace, and kept flashing his brights at me.

So, I just shifted down one gear, floored it, and when I shifted again, I was making pretty good speed. After about five miles, the Porsche driver apparently got the willies and backed off. Now, uphill, the Porsche could probably have beaten my little Mini, but downhill, the go-cart-like handling of the Mini let me out-corner the Porsche. There weren't all that many Minis around at the time, and mine was faster than most. It was also death on everyone on a tight gymkhana course. Fun times.

[brush]

54. Sounds like you had some good times back in the day with your cars.

Cars back then were simpler and more fun without all the computerization and easier to tinker with.

Now cars are more reliable though so I guess it's a wash. I still miss the seat-of-the-pants days. I had a '63 big Healey and a '62 3.8 Jag sedan.

[Historic NY]

25. For a failure 1.8 million sold is some feat...

Gen. 2's are the bomb.

[Guppy]

28. I would love to drive one

that has coilovers and a turbo.

[Historic NY]

31. Our old car club had a guy with a tubo version....

and I've seen a few with superchargers. Old guy explained they took a 6 cylinder engine and flattened it. It sort of like a spatchcocked turkey.

[Guppy]

33. Porshe's had a flat 6

It was in the 914's. The 65-69 Corvair has great lines. I love a good performance car. I have had 2 legendary performance cars. I noted them above. Datsun 510. 1994 Audi S$.

[snowybirdie]

27. Au contraire

Back in '62, hubby was hit at an intersection while driving his Corvair. Hit in rear right fender, going about 25 mph. The car flipped, and rolled over four times! Not safe at all! They rolled over a lot. Obvious there was a design flaw!

[Guppy]

29. They were not

look at all the available data. NHTSA cleared them

[brush]

38. Not necessarily any more unsafe than other cars. That's how cops put an end to car chases.

It's called the PIT maneuver, or Pursuit Intervention Technique. During a chase they get close enough with their patrol car and it's heavy duty bumpers to nudge the right or left rear corner of the suspect car which will send it out of control and often cause it to flip and end the chase.

I just happpened to watch a video of it recently. It works on most cars.

[ProfessorGAC]

59. Au Contraire, redux

The conditions described would have created the same event in all but the largest vehicles of the day
Your one example doesn't contradict the mountain of data that Nader fabricated data!
He was wrong and a liar then. He was a stranger to facts and logic then
Nothing has changed.

[snowybirdie]

60. Hey folks

It was 56 years ago and lots of better cars have been built since. Nadar is an old fart and no use getting shorts in a knot. Happy New Year!

[Guppy]

61. This topic was really about what a shithead Nader is.

[snowybirdie]

62. Absolutely!

[Achilleaze]

30. I had a '65 Corvair

A total piece of crap. Worst car I ever owned.

[spartan61]

34. My very first car was

a 1962 Corvair Monza. How I loved that car! I remember trying to cross the Peace Bridge in a heavy snowstorm in Buffalo. The other cars on the bridge were stuck but my little Corvair, with the motor in the rear, had no problem at all.

[MichMan]

40. Years ago I remember hearing that Nader never had a driver's license

and had never owned a car in his entire life. I guess that still makes one an expect in automobiles somehow

[Kali]

42. I own a '64 Lakewood Wagon - anybody in the market?

[MineralMan]

51. Those always remind me of what a BMW wagon would have looked like.

Cool design, I think.

[Kali]

55. it is a cool old car, but I just don't have the skills or motivation to restore or keep it running

it was my Grandfather's, he gave it to me before he died. I drove it for a while but it kept breaking down in the most inconvenient places. LOL

[MineralMan]

56. Somewhere, someone wants it.

Put it on Craigs List or eBay. EBay would draw from a wider range, and people who are looking for a specific car model will pay to have it delivered to them by a car shipper.

I'm serious!

Here's a 1961 Corvair Wagon that sold in January, 2018 for $10,000. Now, it's a nice car in terrific condition, but that's the top of the price point for yours, too. Someone might just buy it and restore it, out of nostalgia or profit potential.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1961-chevrolet-corvair-lakewood/

[Kali]

57. yeah, it might be time to try that again

I tried when I first I got on line (around 2000 LOL) but I should give it another whirl.

I'm never going to be rich enough to send it to pros for the work.

[Liberal In Texas]

49. Drove one owned by the drug store I worked for in college.

Delivered Rx in all kinds of weather, the Corvair was great in the snow.

[Freedomofspeech]

52. When I started student teaching in 1970...

My Dad bought me a 1965 Corvair Monza and paid $600 for it.. I was student teaching in the winter in Pittsburgh and that car went everywhere! I loved that car...got stopped for speeding twice . I wish that I still owned it.