NBC's 'Revolution'—Life In U.S. After An EMP Attack

[Grave Grumbler]

http://news.investors.com/article/622731/201208171903/revolution-shows-life-after-emp-attack.htm

National Security: A new TV series demonstrates graphically how vulnerable our society is to an attack using weapons our enemies, including rogue state Iran, could use tomorrow — and the importance of missile defense.  Set in a future "where every single piece of technology — computers, planes, cars, phones, even lights — has mysteriously blacked out forever," according to the promos, the drama series is fiction, but the threat it depicts, the end of technological society and life as we know it, is a frighteningly real possibility.

We've warned of the threat many times, but the damage an electromagnetic pulse (EMP), a high-intensity burst of electromagnetic energy caused by an explosion of charged particles, such as by a high-altitude nuclear detonation, is a subject that makes eyes glaze over.  Let's hope this series will show the apocalyptic nature of this threat in terms average people can understand.

Eric Kripke, one of the show's executive producers, said, "We did our homework and came up with something that's actually plausible." Indeed, the script could have been taken directly from a report from the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse, which was established by Congress to assess the dangers of an EMP attack.

The report warned that it "has the capability to produce significant damage to critical infrastructures and thus to the very fabric of U.S. society, as well as to the ability of the United States and Western nations to project influence and military power."

[KG]

1. I stopped reading after 'Iran'

[Fumesucker]

2. Iran has neither nuclear weapons nor a delivery system capable of an EMP attack on the USA

So the very first sentence is bullshit..

[Marrah_G]

4. I wish they had used some massive solar burst or something

But it is a fictional story not a documentary.

[Fumesucker]

5. I was referring to the article quoted in the OP..

Clearly it was designed to elicit fear of Iran..

Don't know anything about the program..

[Marrah_G]

11. Oh yeah- definitely agree with you there

If both Israel and the US would just STFU about Iran, then maybe in time we could actually get along.

[former9thward]

24. Yeah we should STFU about a country that routinely hangs homosexuals.

[Hydra]

39. Don't worry, if the RWers have their way

They'll be doing it here too. Also to Democrats and scientists, so at least we'll have good company while we're being burned at the stake.

[Marrah_G]

44. THAT was not what I was talking about and you fucking know it

[former9thward]

45. I'm not going to STFU about Iran no matter what you fucking want.

Attacking the U.S. and Israel concerning Iran is a defense of Iran and its policies no matter how you spin it.

[Marrah_G]

49. Off to ignore you go

[Marrah_G]

3. I'm interested in checking this show out

I would like to see how they have the characters deal with day to day life without electricity. It could end up being a great show or a really terrible one.

[HopeHoops]

6. EMP is in many ways more dangerous than nuclear. It's easy to construct.

[Fumesucker]

10. EMP is a nuclear device..

Nothing else artificial has the energy output to do something like that..

Another Carrington event on the other hand is a distinct possibility.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/02/massive-solar-flare/

The Earth has a roughly 12 percent chance of experiencing an enormous megaflare erupting from the sun in the next decade. This event could potentially cause trillions of dollars’ worth of damage and take up to a decade to recover from.

Such an extreme event is considered to be relatively rare. The last gigantic solar storm, known as the Carrington Event, occurred more than 150 years ago and was the most powerful such event in recorded history.

That a rival to this event might have a greater than 10 percent chance of happening in the next 10 years was surprising to space physicist Pete Riley, senior scientist at Predictive Science in San Diego, California, who published the estimate in Space Weather on Feb. 23.

“Even if it’s off by a factor of two, that’s a much larger number than I thought,” he said.

[HopeHoops]

17. NNEMP is quite viable and virtually impossible to detect. One could take out Wall St.

[Fumesucker]

21. You say that like it's a bad thing...

And taking out one city does not cause an entire continental country to lose electric power for years..

Watermelons and Blueberries..

[HopeHoops]

25. Shit. I like watermelons AND blueberries. Still, you can knock out a grid with simple materials.

Granted, a nuclear EMP is far more powerful, but a NNEMP is pretty damn crushing too. The latter just can't be detected. In this age of computer dependence, EMP of any sort is perhaps a greater threat than nuclear destruction.

[democrat_patriot]

7. Saw trailers: Why is everyone so CLEAN?

Everyone is cute with nice teeth and clean.

Whatever - interesting premise but more like a soap opera than a realistic drama.

[knitter4democracy]

86. I had the same thought.

I mean, it's NBC, so yeah, but still.

Of course, I yelled at the people on Lost the entire first season for not doing a survey of the island and having a signal fire.

[JPK]

8. Iran EMP attack

If Iran actually did do something like this they would cease to exist. As much as their government dislikes us, they aren't THAT stupid.

[FrodosPet]

22. A "Conventional" attack is what scares me the most.

Carrington event - potentially devastating, but also possible to forecast and make accommodations.

EMP attack - I would be more worried about China or Russia launching one than Iran, but that is a microscopic probability.

A few squads of terrorists, either domestic or foreign, using conventional explosives on key switching stations and/or high tension lines: This scares the crap out of me.

[hifiguy]

9. Pretty hard to direct an EMP at just one

country, methinks. Interesting premise for a sci-fi tale, though. Post-apocalypse scenarios have fueled Stephen King's "The Stand" and Robert McCammon's "Swan Song" both of which were superb novels.

[XemaSab]

12. Good call on both books

For folks playing at home, "The Stand" was about the aftermath of a superflu that kills something like 99.7% of the population, and "Swan Song" was about the aftermath of a nuclear war. Good times.

[zappaman]

46. SWAN SONG?

Nice to know that someone else loved that novel!
Everyone knows THE STAND, but SWAN SONG is just as good, and in some ways better, but no one seems to have heard of it.
This show, however, looks like utter crap.

[hifiguy]

50. "Swan Song," like all of McCammon's best books

was ultimately about a secular sort of redemption. The ending is subtle. beautiful and speaks to the best of humanity. I met Rick when he signed at the sci-fi comics shop I managed for a few years in the early 1990s. HE signed every one of my hardcover first states and I had them all and still do. He's a real southern gentleman, and the southern gothic literary tradition is very much the basis of his style. Shame he quit writing. "Boys Life" was a true work of American magical realism and one of my top 20 pieces of modern fiction, a list that includes The Stand - in its uncut version and Swan Song.

[zappaman]

55. Will have to check out BOYS LIFE

Just got this but haven't cracked it yet.
http://subterraneanpress.com/store/product_detail/the_five

[hifiguy]

73. Whoa! That really looks like a terrific read.

McCammon writes so beautifully and evocatively.

[slor]

83. I read it...

And loved it.

[stevenleser]

67. Once you can deliver a nuclear weapon via missile, its easy and almost unstoppable.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1976224,00.html

Ballistic missile technology is now pretty ubiquitous, its the developing the nuclear warhead part that stops most countries and groups from being able to do this.

[janlyn]

76. sleeper

Swan song, a sleeper novel if there ever was one!!!! Loved it!!!

[kentauros]

90. Warday by Streiber and Kunetka

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warday

EMP is also used in the story (just before a limited nuclear exchange with the USSR), including how pissed the Canadians were with us after the fact. Their economy and way of life was wiped out along with ours. It's a great "travelogue" of a country destroyed by war.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

13. fear propaganda

I hope the show is better than the article

[TeamPooka]

14. I sold a book called One Second After to Warner Brothers a few years ago with the same premise.

EMP takes the US back to the stone age.

[kestrel91316]

26. You wrote that???

I thought the author was a RWer.

[TeamPooka]

28. He is, I was the lit agent

[kestrel91316]

31. Oh cool. I liked the book - I am a huge fan of post-apocalyptic books and films.

[TeamPooka]

32. I am too, especially when there is a very realistic approach like in OSA

[eShirl]

57. i can remember him talking about EMP in class way back in '80-'81

Good times during the Cold War...
(he was also the DM for our AD&D group, which was a blast)

[villager]

29. I had a short story in a YA anthology a year or so ago with the same premise

Since it was a short story, I stuck to the effects on the immediate neighborhood, in the aftermath.

Been mulling whether I should do a collected series of stories set in that EMP-world...

[TeamPooka]

36. go for it

[villager]

38. Probably should -- after catching up with the two other projects I'm behind on...!

Thanks, though!

[Grave Grumbler]

41. What's the name of the anthology?

I'm always on the lookout for more post-apocalyptic fiction!

[villager]

65. Regionally published, by a local indie bookstore as a holiday project...

In mine, the EMP burst hits during the annual neighborhood Christmas party...

[Grave Grumbler]

33. Any film news?

I sold a book called One Second After to Warner Brothers a few years ago with the same premise.

Any news about a possible film?  As per the Wikipedia article on One Second After:

The option for the film rights to One Second After was initially sold to Warner Bros., where it subsequently expired. A new option is currently being negotiated with another studio as of August 2011

I would love to see this adapted to film!

[4th law of robotics]

77. It was a good read

stock up on .22s and old cars.

Also don't have diabetes.

/are they actually going to make a film out of that? It would be a good, albeit depressing, movie if they remain faithful to the book.

[Proles]

15. I was actually paid 20 bucks to watch the season premier of this show

and hit a button on parts that I judged interesting, and write a critique at the end. It was generally an okay episode, but I have too many shows to watch as it is.

However, I don't recall any mention of Iran in the episode, so I think that's just the article fear mongering -- unless it's some sort of revelation that appears later throughout the season.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. Kripke puts it well 'plausible'...for story telling.

The whole 'Iran could do this tomorrow' bit is cloud cuckoo land.

[csziggy]

18. Would it take an EMP to do that damage?

On one of the History/Discovery/A&E channels as part of one of their disaster series, there was a show about what would happen if some sort of magnetic storm/pulse hit (it's been a couple of years since I saw this show so my memory of the specifics is vague). One of the major concepts was that a strong pulse could have a similar effect to an EMP and fry electronics.

In their scenario, a particular component of electricity distribution - transformers? - are vulnerable to being fried by this sort of magnetic pulse but only if there is power going through them at the time it hits. If there was sufficient warning and the people managing the systems were smart enough, they could turn off the power grid until after the pulse passed.

If they were not smart enough, transformers would be destroyed by the thousands or millions. Since the manufacturing capacity is limited, even without an interruption in the power system it could take years under the best circumstances to replace them all.

The show did not go into the possible aftermath of such a lengthy interruption in power distribution, but our culture is so dependent on those systems I doubt it would manage well. Just look at the aftermath in limited areas after storms or even just a temporary power outage!

[stevenleser]

71. The pulse you are talking about is natural EMP.

EMP=Electromagnetic pulse. Nuclear detonation is only one thing that can generate it.

The problem with recovering from some sort of huge nationwide EMP event is that the damage is at multiple layers of the electrical and electronics infrastructure. If it were only the transformers, that would be infinitely better.

Its the transformers plus every electrical device that has a solid state amplifier. Now try and find an electronic device that doesnt have a solid state amplifier. Cars, trucks, planes, televisions, telephones and just about every layer of the communications infrastructure, computers, cell phones, internet routers and switches, various components in just about every factory and power generation station including nuclear reactors, etc.

These devices arent just temporarily disrupted. The amplifiers are destroyed and those devices are permanently unuseable after that.

[csziggy]

85. I think it may have been Coronal Mass Ejections

Like solar flares, CMEs bring an increase in radiation to astronauts and electronics in space. But unlike flares, they also bring charged particles of matter that interact with the field surrounding our planet. The results vary depending on the size, speed and magnetic strength of the particles.

When the particles reach the Earth's magnetic sphere, they stretch and distort. Much like a tree in a strong wind, the day side — the first side affected — is compressed, while the night side is stretched out like a tail. When it reconnects on the night side, it releases the energy found in a bolt of lightning. While lightning lasts on the order of microseconds, however, the magnetic storm created lasts far longer. It races back toward Earth's upper atmosphere.

The sudden increase in power can damage sensitive electronic equipment. Power transformers can overload, causing long-lasting blackouts. Long metal structures like oil and gas pipelines can carry currents, which can enhance their corrosion over time and lead to devastating effects if proper safety measures are not in place. The resulting variations in the ionosophere can disrupt GPS signals, giving inaccurate readings.

On Sept. 1, 1859, Richard Carrington and Richard Hodgson, both amateur English astronomers, independently made the first observations of a solar flare, one which resulted in the largest geomagnetic storm ever recorded. Auroras, which normally occupy the polar regions, were visible in tropical latitudes. Telegraph operators reported being shocked — literally — by their instruments. Even after unhooking them from the power supply, messages could still be transmitted, powered by the currents in the atmosphere.

The so-called Carrington Event would be far more devastating if it happened today, given the greater reliance on electronics and the expanded power supply. However, thus far, it is the strongest storm yet recorded.

http://www.space.com/11506-space-weather-sunspots-solar-flares-coronal-mass-ejections.html

From the description at that source, it does not sound quite the same as an EMP so not every electronic device would be damaged the same way. This description sounds much more like what I remember from that TV show.

[hifiguy]

95. Interestingly enough, vacuum tubes are immune to EMP

and that is why the USSR used tubed avionics in their military planes well into the 1980s. I own a pair of stereo amps designed and built by a guy who designed Soviet military electronics before he emigrated and got involved in high-end audio.

[benld74]

19. IS this why Cheney got the nooclar pacemaker?

[Archae]

20. This line sums it up.

"...and the importance of missile defense."

"Missile Defense" is a sham. A fraud.
It doesn't work, and it can't work.

But it sure makes tons of $$$ for the contractors pushing this garbage.

Top that off with the fact that this article is from an investors' magazine.
They have a vested interest in perpetuating this fraud.

[LongTomH]

75. The makers of US missiles have a big interest in 'Mi$$ile Defen$e'

They stand to potentially make or lose millions on this, and they'll keep pushing it, whether the 'menace' is Iran or China, or North Korea.

[Xyzse]

23. Maybe when it hits Netflix

I'll have a marathon watching session. Then I'll figure out if I like it or not.

[bluedigger]

27. Who would we need to "project influence and military power" against in the aftermath?

EMP attacks are a pretty indiscriminate doomsday device. Presumably, Mexico and Canada would be just as affected as the US. Would the Chinese invade us with a fleet of fishing junks? I think everybody would be pretty preoccupied with the restoration of society for a couple of decades, at least. It might slow anthropocenic climate change rates, though, so it's not all bad.

[leveymg]

30. I count at least 6 categorical and conditional errors in just one sentence fragment

weapons our enemies, including rogue state Iran, could use tomorrow — and the importance of missile defense

[Johonny]

42. +1

The trailer looks like the road warrior without the punk charm

[leveymg]

43. The Postman mated with The Hunger Games. This is the TV version.

Wasn't "Jericho" also initially premised on a nuclear attack by Iran, before it turned out the Vice President from Wyoming had rigged the whole thing?

That series ended on a somewhat more realistic note.

[spanone]

34. yea and iraq has WMD's

[sinkingfeeling]

35. Wouldn't watch it if you paid me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. It is far more likely, as a premise, if they used a SOLAR event

than Iran...

FYI, the SUN, has actually done quite a bit of damage to oh... the Canadian electric grid.

Oy, let's prepare the Murican people for the next good war.

[Dash87]

40. 'Jericho' ripoff. Meh...

I know Jericho had nukes and the US govt. did it, but this is probably the same lame concepts and ideas.

[GreenPartyVoter]

48. I really miss "Jericho."

[Dash87]

62. It was alright. I just found it too slow and "soapish."

I prefer a more intense drama. Maybe if I put more effort into it, I would have liked it... Not sure.

[GreenPartyVoter]

63. I see what you are saying. Not sure if they could have

managed that or not.

[zappaman]

47. SPOILER alert...

Seriously, I know someone involved in the show...

[Hugabear]

51. I doubt that an EMP could affect the entire nation, or last forever

An EMP - especially if it were detonated high enough - might be able to affect a very large area - but the entire United States? Doubtful.

And causing everything to black out forever? We know how to create electricity. Hell, it wasn't even that long ago that we put together the electrical infrastructure in this country. It would take a long time - but eventually, we would recover and rebuild.

[Ohio Joe]

52. What the fuck kind of right wing dip-shit site are you linking to?

jeebus-h-tap-dancing-christ-on-a-popscicle-stick... They have birther bullshit there:

http://news.investors.com/article/621683/201208091834/obama-columbia-years-remain-secret.htm

Right wing conspiracy bullshit... Welcome to DU... I guess... Sheesh...

[Zalatix]

53. Okay so all electronics get fried everywhere...

what's to stop me from finding a magnet, some copper wires and an iron bar, and getting electricity going again?

What's going to stop the turbines at the hydroelectric dams from churning out electricity again? Electricity comes from magnets attached to a conductive rod and spinning around, right? An EMP doesn't stop that from happening. What am I missing here?

[bluedigger]

56. It's more a question of supply and demand.

I think all solid state electronics would be toast, wouldn't they? Steam locomotives would be in high demand to supply factories (Factories? What factories?) with raw materials to manufacture new electronics, starting with repairing their own equipment. Old aircraft and autos with crank magnetos, etc, would be worth their weight in gold... Just coordinating everything would be a major task without the communications infrastructure - fiber optics lines would be worthless. It would take a few years/decades to restore the physical infrastructure, and in the meantime the political situation would constantly be at risk. It would probably mean the end/balkanization of the USA.

[Zalatix]

61. Balkanization...

that would make me smile - I could get as far away from the Conserviturds as possible and let them pollute themselves to death and prey on each other.

It couldn't possibly be worse than what the Plutocracy has in store for us as it is.

[stevenleser]

81. You are assuming that armed aggressive folks who support war would leave the other new nations,

with whom they share a common land border, alone? That sounds like a bad assumption.

[Zalatix]

82. They'd probably prey on each other first.

And everyone around them would eventually get tired of them and... deal with the problem.

[Ruby the Liberal]

54. If its done right - this could be a cool show despite the Heritage Foundation quote.

Anyone know when it is scheduled to air?

[Mojorabbit]

58. Looks like

Series Premiere!
Monday, September 17 10/9c
I love apocalyptic fiction. I will check it out.

[Ruby the Liberal]

59. Excellent. Thanks!

[Marblehead]

60. no one could survive

when all the nuke plants start to melt down...

[Johnny2X2X]

64. Not realistic

I work for a defense contractor, we design stuff to withstand EMPs and I can tell you that a large EMP over the US isn't going to do much damage. It might fry some small electronics that aren't shielded in any way, but no way is something going to be able to penetrate a significant number of vehicles, homes, or buildings and to do that it would have to be in the line of site. It could maybe do significant damage to a city, but a state or a country? No way. A solar storm is way more dangerous, but even then, I just don't see how that is going to fry a significant amount of electronics.

This article just preys on people's fear and ignorance of how electronics work. An EMP would cause the most and costliest damage to satelites that were orbiting in the vicinity.

It's a bunch of rubbish brought to you by the same people who brought you the Y2K hysteria.

[Fumesucker]

68. Thank you for some sanity..

What you wrote corresponds with my own reasonably informed layman's understanding..

The electronics in most cars is pretty well shielded for instance..

[Comrade Grumpy]

74. It's a TV show.

[LanternWaste]

84. my older brother used to do the same thing with old Star Trek episodes.

Hence many of us feel more enabled in illustrating how clever we via the mechanism of our criticisms of a television show-- my older brother used to do the same thing with old Star Trek episodes. Thankfully, I never see him anymore-- bit of a wet rag socially, as one may easily infer...

[LongTomH]

78. Do you have some sources for your conclusions?

I'm not questioning your knowledge; actually, I'm looking for sources I can use in arguments. I'm sure to run up against people who'll start quoting the TV series; people do have a problem separating fiction and reality!

[Fumesucker]

89. Here's a site that talks about the EMP effects on relatively modern cars..

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/vehicles.html

<snip>

Based on these test results, we expect few automobile effects at EMP field levels below 25 kV/m. Approximately 10 percent or more of the automobiles exposed to higher field levels may experience serious EMP effects, including engine stall, that require driver intervention to correct. We further expect that at least two out of three automobiles on the road will manifest some nuisance response at these higher field levels. The serious malfunctions could trigger car crashes on U.S. highways; the nuisance malfunctions could exacerbate this condition. The ultimate result of automobile EMP exposure could be triggered crashes that damage many more vehicles than are damaged by the EMP, the consequent loss of life, and multiple injuries.

<snip>

[Comrade_McKenzie]

66. It's a pet peeve of mine when people pick apart TV shows...

Just enjoy it. It's entertainment.

And from what I've read about the show... it's going to be achieved with alien technology. Not a typical EMP.

So all the "experts" can climb back into their holes and spare us the analysis.

[LanternWaste]

69. Although I haven't been a fan of dystopian sci-fi since I was kid in high school way back when

Although I haven't been a fan of dystopian sci-fi since I was kid in high school way back when, the fact that JJ Abrams is involved, and Jon Favreau will direct some eps has me curiously intrigued.

[MrScorpio]

70. I have questions…

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10372383

[stevenleser]

72. Its not easy to create the right amplifier by hand for a particular device

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_amplifier

[4th law of robotics]

79. In the previews the people seemed healthy, clean shaven more or less,

the ladies had make up and so on.

Like about 90% of post-apocalypse movies.

People would be unkempt, filthy, sickly, and half-starved if they survive at all. Think a refugee camp rather than prom.

I wish they'd get that right.

[knitter4democracy]

87. You mean like how they still had power in Zombieland?

Gas pumps still work, there's still electricity everywhere (because, you know, the zombies working for the power company were different than all the other zombies and had work ethics), and everyone's fairly clean except for the zombies.

Food's easy to come by, cars work just fine, stuff like that always gets to me when I watch a post-apocalyptic show.

[4th law of robotics]

96. Exactly

I get not wanting to deal with those details as watching people spend half an hour in a 90 minute movie pumping water by hand, starting cooking fires, siphoning gas, scrambling about for batteries and the like isn't that entertaining but they could at least give a nod towards realism.

And of course no one wants to go to see a movie with ugly people in it.

From the previews it looks like The Road has done an ok job painting a bleak but realistic landscape. Haven't seen the movie though.

[johnd83]

80. The show may be entertaining, but I am not sure it is realistic

While the damage from an EMP blast would be devastating to computers, it shouldn't damage large infrastructure as much except in the control systems and at very specific junctions. It would be extremely disruptive but I think it would be possible to repair the damage before society completely collapsed.

It is ironic that we go nuts over dirty bombs but not over EMP blasts considering it is probably easier to build a non-nuclear EMP generator than get radiological materials.

[roamer65]

88. A CME could have the same effect as an EMP.

If we ever have one similar to the one we had in 1859, we are toast.

[Fumesucker]

93. The effects can be similar but are not the same between EMP and CME..

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/vehicles.html

One of the most common questions about electromagnetic pulse is about the effects of EMP on vehicles. I have resisted writing much about this in the past because so little is known about it.

First, however, because it is a point of so much confusion, it is important to point out that there is no known mechanism by which a solar storm would destroy an automobile, except for making fuel unavailable due to loss of the power grid. Even the most massive solar storms are not known to contain the fast E1 component, which is the part of a nuclear EMP that can destroy items that are not connected to extremely long lines.

Astronomical gamma ray bursts that produce an huge E1 component have occurred during the history of the Earth, but the extreme rarity of a damaging gamma ray burst means that it is much less likely than an asteroid strike. Also, the stars in this part of the galaxy have settled into their relatively tranquil middle age; and damaging gamma ray bursts are even less likely to occur today than in our planet's prehistoric past. The only direct EMP dangers to automobiles results from nuclear EMP (and from non-nuclear EMP weapons of very limited range).

[HiPointDem]

92. ooooh. be scared, be very scared. and vote for war!

[DeltaLitProf]

94. Why didn't the Enola Gay and other planes crash if EMP is that powerful?

You'd think that after the bombs were dropped in Hiroshima and Nagasaki that EMP would have fried the electronics in the planes. And you'd also think that the nuclear tests in the American Southwest would have likewise caused EMP to shut down cities like Las Vegas, Reno, Santa Fe, Phoenix, Tuscon. Did that happen?

[DuendeVision]

97. My Question Exactly-Why didn't the Enola Gay and other planes crash if EMP is that powerful?

My question exactly.