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jodymarie aimee

(3,975 posts)
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 12:43 PM Jan 2019

Holy cow. This NY Times story is just littered with seismic earth-shakers sure to rattle the windows

This is The Hoarse Whisperer..a thread that was hard to put together for our format...it says a lot...and in chronological order..

Holy cow. This NY Times story is just littered with seismic earth-shakers sure to rattle the windows at the White House. Yowza. My very quick first-blush take on the meaty nuggets... Let’s dive in!

In the days after Comey’s firing, the FBI opened a COUNTERINTELLIGENCE investigation of Trump himself. WOW! Unlike the initial Trump-Russia investigation (which was looking primarily at events in 2016), the counterintel investigation was basically surveillance in 2017+.

Naturally, deciding to basically turn your national security and intelligence magnifying glasses on the President of the United States is a BIG DEAL. The FBI didn’t enter into it lightly. 3/

But then Trump fired Comey... AND... did two more things that raised red flags. The first: he wrote a letter on Comey’s firing and mentioned Russia. The subtle Easter egg there: the FBI had the draft of the unsent letter. 4/

Now, tie that together with the fact that this story was broken by Mike Schmidt of the NYT. As I’ve said often in the past, I am of the belief that former White House Counsel Don McGahn is Schmidt’s source for these big bombshells.

If that is indeed the case, McGahn may very well have been working with Mueller months earlier than we ever knew. Somehow, the FBI had a draft of an unsent letter immediately. If not McGahn, it could well have been turned over by Rosenstein. Regardless, the FBI was on it. 6/

Moving right along, the implications of this are potentially enooooormous. Mueller didn’t just inherit ONE investigation focused on what happened before. He also inherited a second which was actively tracking Trump’s actions AS THEY WERE UNFOLDING. 7/

That counterintelligence investigation would have required approval at the DOJ. I can’t see how that would have been possible without Jeff Sessions’ buy-in, or at minimum, awareness. I’d be shocked if that all went down without Sessions even hearing about it. 8/

Maybe Rosenstein parlayed Sessions’ recusal into keeping all this a secret. If that’s the case, expect Trump to be looking for Rosenstein’s head on a platter any minute now. If he goes off on Rosenstein, Rod knew. Jefferson Beauregard didn’t.

Anyway, I digress. Another doozy of this now-revealed real-time counterintel probe of Trump itself: It basically served as a safety net the entire time we sat fretting about Trump firing Mueller.


The FBI was investigating potential crimes... while also monitoring the chief potential criminal in case he tried to interfere with their work. Think about that... the FBI’s counterintel resources were trained on the guy who had a “private chat” w Putin in Helsinki.

We don’t know what actions that investigation took. It is fair to assume it included mining ongoing intel from our own resources at the NSA, etc., as well as from allies. That would have the effect of putting relevant work-product of any ally’s spying in Mueller’s hands.


Meaning, even if we weren’t eavesdropping on Trump’s convo w Putin, his late-night phone calls, his admin’s back-channel contacts with Russians, etc... someone was. Whether it was the UK, Germany, Estonia, Spain, Israel, Australia or whomever, EVERYONE spies on Russia...

...and Mueller had an open folder just waiting to be filled with whatever tasty nuggets those eyes and ears happened to pass our way. Think: A real-time Steele dossier with updates baked fresh daily.

Bringing it down out of Tom Clancy “Hunt for Orange October” territory to a more modest, conservative takeaway, we can count on at least this much: The counterintel investigation makes it highly likely Mueller has obstruction charges nailed six ways to Sunday.


Why? The CI work was essentially spying or tracking from Comey’s firing foreward. At minimum, it would have provided intel on the obstruction effort as it unfolded... and, at minimum, that would have guided Mueller’s interviews.

Remember all those witnesses who came out of meetings w Mueller saying he knew EVERYTHING? He did. Erik Prince, Stone, Corsi, McGahn, et al. He knew everything when they walked in. He had people paying attention after they walked out. 17/


Okay, I’m spinning like a top here so let me bring this in for a landing: Trump has spent the last two years trying to obstruct an investigation into 2016 events... ...and little did he know, his biggest problem would prove to be what he was doing in 2017-2018.

I think we now better understand why Mueller never called in Kushner or Junior. They were caught up in a live counterintel sweep. Questioning them would have given that away. That earth-shaker is about to sink in for them. Their problems just got 10x bigger. 19/


Last comment. Sry for rambling. Knowing all of this, I virtually guarantee Mueller turned an insider or two. Flipped informants. Not just witnesses. Informants. Don McGahn is a prime candidate. Mueller likely turned someone in the Admin itself. I’d bet many beers on it.

The Hoarse Whisperer Retweeted The New York Times

Oops. Forgot the link. Here it is.

The Hoarse Whisperer added,
The New York TimesVerified account @nytimes
President Trump’s actions so alarmed the FBI after James Comey’s firing that it began investigating if he was working on behalf of Russia

Okay, okay, okay, I can’t stop. I’m too amped up now. I’m practically oscillating. Here’s a delicious little karmic dessert to round out this sumptuous info feast... Remember the guy who was president before the Marmalade Menace took office? This guy... #44. Obama


On his way out the door, we all were wallowing in our winter of discontent, Obama signed an executive order... It went largely uncovered but I noted it at the time. It was like when you’re watching Law & Order and they zoom in on a paperweight in Minute 5 of the show...

You just know that paperweight is gonna come back into play around Minute 55. Foreshadowing! Pretext! Other words meaning “that’s gonna matter!” Anyway, the point is... Obama signed an EO as a parting shot one week before leaving office.

The order revised the rules around intelligence sharing among our intel community. Specifically, it made the firehose of raw intelligence collected by the NSA directly accessible to the FBI and CIA. Instead of having to ask for intel and getting what they filtered down...

The FBI and CIA could directly access the unfiltered “SigInt” or signals intelligence. Intercepted phone calls, emails, raw intel from human sources. Everything our vast intelligence vacuum hoovers up, available directly... but only for counterintel and foreign intel purposes.




52 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Holy cow. This NY Times story is just littered with seismic earth-shakers sure to rattle the windows (Original Post) jodymarie aimee Jan 2019 OP
k and r niyad Jan 2019 #1
I guess they will drop the hammer as soon as every i is dotted, and every t crossed. denbot Jan 2019 #2
But if Trump continues to commit crimes, will they just keep investigating? tclambert Jan 2019 #34
Yessssss voteearlyvoteoften Jan 2019 #3
We're starting to see........ MyOwnPeace Jan 2019 #4
Here is a link to the unrolled version but also to unrolled later related ones BumRushDaShow Jan 2019 #5
"Hunt for Orange October" CrispyQ Jan 2019 #6
That one really cracked me up! Dem_4_Life Jan 2019 #12
And Putine may not be particularly happy in his new USSR with elevated sanctions and unable to feed erronis Jan 2019 #25
...and/or that the Russian people become hyper aware of Putin's corruption fierywoman Jan 2019 #27
"along with the complicit GOP leadership" Danascot Jan 2019 #42
K&R yonder Jan 2019 #7
A link in your post would be nice. n/t Stand and Fight Jan 2019 #8
It's from his tweets BumRushDaShow Jan 2019 #14
Thank you for this. n/t Stand and Fight Jan 2019 #22
You are welcome! BumRushDaShow Jan 2019 #35
thank you jodymarie aimee Jan 2019 #36
You are not the only one! BumRushDaShow Jan 2019 #38
Aha! There were accusations - I think I remember some from Trump - colorado_ufo Jan 2019 #9
Whoa, O left a back door for the FBI/CIA to the intel? onetexan Jan 2019 #10
NYTImes Mike Schmidt is the one who reported that Rosenstein wore a wire BigmanPigman Jan 2019 #11
I don't think there's any public knowledge of Rosenstein WEARING a wire. We know he suggested it. hedda_foil Jan 2019 #26
Yes, he says he had the idea but not that he carried it out. BigmanPigman Jan 2019 #29
5 eyes sees and hears everything. watoos Jan 2019 #13
Holy merde! Mme. Defarge Jan 2019 #15
Oui! C'est vrai! 2naSalit Jan 2019 #17
YCMTMU! Mme. Defarge Jan 2019 #20
No but this sure fits in 2naSalit Jan 2019 #21
Oh yeah! Just in time for another eclipse! 2naSalit Jan 2019 #16
Connecting the dots......... BarbD Jan 2019 #18
K&R BlueJac Jan 2019 #19
K&R alwaysinasnit Jan 2019 #23
Fingers crossed. alfredo Jan 2019 #24
We see just the tip of this iceberg. ginnyinWI Jan 2019 #28
ginny, your two astounding paragraphs hit the bull's-eye Lotus54 Jan 2019 #47
K&R Scurrilous Jan 2019 #30
Wow great post. So let me get this right, the FBI has a counterintelligence investigation into Trump Pepsidog Jan 2019 #31
It's no wonder why Trump keeps his chats with Putin private vlyons Jan 2019 #32
Thanks for putting this thread together! FirstLight Jan 2019 #33
K&R for visibility. nt tblue37 Jan 2019 #37
Many, many thanks 4 giving us the collusion timeline from hoarsewhisperer!! bobbieinok Jan 2019 #39
I worked all morning on it jodymarie aimee Jan 2019 #43
Totally agree. And again--thanks for your work! bobbieinok Jan 2019 #45
Tronald Dump replies: Honest, I never worked for Vlad. Believe me! Hassler Jan 2019 #40
I'm surprised Trump didn't undo Obama's last EO onlyadream Jan 2019 #41
NO COLLUSION! BadGimp Jan 2019 #44
This might help for unspooling and copying long Twitter threads: JHB Jan 2019 #46
My head is spinning. Interesting whether Sessions knew. Honeycombe8 Jan 2019 #48
Paperweights!!! What about the soccer ball with the chip inside? Sancho Jan 2019 #49
K&R BlueJac Jan 2019 #50
They've been working without pay, Trump/GOP are punishing them IronLionZion Jan 2019 #51
K & R to a thread that illustrates why I clue into DU so often northoftheborder Jan 2019 #52

denbot

(9,914 posts)
2. I guess they will drop the hammer as soon as every i is dotted, and every t crossed.
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 12:53 PM
Jan 2019

Can't happen fast enough.

tclambert

(11,143 posts)
34. But if Trump continues to commit crimes, will they just keep investigating?
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:40 PM
Jan 2019

At some point, they have to say, "Okay, from this point forward, someone else will have to investigate any new crimes."

MyOwnPeace

(17,280 posts)
4. We're starting to see........
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:03 PM
Jan 2019

an avalanche of information - an avalanche that IQ45 will NOT be able to stop or hide from.
The funny thing about an avalanche - as it gains momentum it gathers more - and more - and more....................

You're going down, TRUMP!!!!!

CrispyQ

(38,430 posts)
6. "Hunt for Orange October"
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:14 PM
Jan 2019


If you wrote this into a novel a publisher would write back, "This isn't believable. Back off on some of the story lines."

My ultimate fantasy is that Trump goes down, along with the complicit GOP leadership, & that it's so bad for Putin he can't set foot outside of Russia. I don't know if that's even possible, but in my book it happens.

erronis

(16,982 posts)
25. And Putine may not be particularly happy in his new USSR with elevated sanctions and unable to feed
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:11 PM
Jan 2019

his consorts/oligarchs. Hate to see anything bad happen to the ex KGB agent.

fierywoman

(8,123 posts)
27. ...and/or that the Russian people become hyper aware of Putin's corruption
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:15 PM
Jan 2019

because of the US investigation of what Putin made happen in the US and they get rid of him.

Danascot

(4,898 posts)
42. "along with the complicit GOP leadership"
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 03:42 PM
Jan 2019

... along those lines, I was reading some of the hoarse whisperer's earlier threads and came across this:

What Pelosi and Schumer are actually doing though is forcing Republicans to strap in alongside Trump and take the entire Thelma and Louise trip right over the cliff with him.

They’re baiting Trump into exactly what he’s doing: showing that he is utterly incapable of reason.

4/
Chuck and Nancy are forcing R’s into a position where they have no choice but to wrestle the steering wheel away from Trump.

They’re baiting Trump into being utterly inflexible at any cost to force his ranks to mutiny.

5/
...and once the ranks have mutinied, a Mad General never again has the same power.

Pelosi and Schumer are forcing the moment to its crisis as T.S. Elliott would say.

The ranks will break. And when they do, it won’t have just won the battle; it will have also turned the war.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1083141845151088640.html

yonder

(10,005 posts)
7. K&R
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:17 PM
Jan 2019

Ooohh, and this one: "Anyway, I digress. Another doozy of this now-revealed real-time counterintel probe of Trump itself: It basically served as a safety net the entire time we sat fretting about Trump firing Mueller."

From that old cop show. "let's be safe out there".

Sounds like they're covering the bases.



BumRushDaShow

(143,374 posts)
14. It's from his tweets
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:38 PM
Jan 2019

The first tweet from the OP's posting of the tweet thread is here -



TEXT
The Hoarse Whisperer @HoarseWisperer

Holy cow. This NY Times story is just littered with seismic earth-shakers sure to rattle the windows at the White House.

Yowza. My very quick first-blush take on the meaty nuggets...

First, here’s the link:

Let’s dive in!

1/
16.7K
10:40 PM - Jan 11, 2019


The rest of his twitter threads related to this subject and "unrolled" (i.e., combined by a service website that generates a single page of multiple tweets meant as a "thread" and publishes it) have links that I posted here (including the OP one) - https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211669351#post5
 

jodymarie aimee

(3,975 posts)
36. thank you
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 03:04 PM
Jan 2019

it took me 2 hrs to put this together from his tweets...taking likes, etc out...and making it legible....

BumRushDaShow

(143,374 posts)
38. You are not the only one!
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 03:28 PM
Jan 2019

Until many of us discovered that "threadreader app" site, we had to do the same thing! It doesn't always have all the interesting threads done but does usually get the popular twitter users like Hoarse Whisperer, Seth Abramson, PopeHat (now posting under PeachesHat@PopeHat), Benjamin Wittes, etc.

colorado_ufo

(5,934 posts)
9. Aha! There were accusations - I think I remember some from Trump -
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:32 PM
Jan 2019

of why didn't President Obama come forward with information he had about possible/probable Russian interference in the election; why didn't he do something about it?

He did.

BigmanPigman

(52,340 posts)
11. NYTImes Mike Schmidt is the one who reported that Rosenstein wore a wire
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:34 PM
Jan 2019

to get info on tRump back in Sept. I remember thinking why would the NYTimes give info to tRump so he could fire Rosenstein? He said his source was secret of course.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/27/reader-center/rod-rosenstein-reporting.html

"Why would The New York Times print a story that would give the president the legitimate excuse he was searching for to justify firing Rosenstein and thereby stop the Mueller investigation? The consequence of printing this story is certain; Rosenstein will be fired to stop Mueller."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/us/politics/rod-rosenstein-wear-wire-25th-amendment.html

"Mr. Rosenstein made the remarks about secretly recording Mr. Trump and about the 25th Amendment in meetings and conversations with other Justice Department and F.B.I. officials. Several people described the episodes in interviews over the past several months, insisting on anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. The people were briefed either on the events themselves or on memos written by F.B.I. officials, including Andrew G. McCabe, then the acting bureau director, that documented Mr. Rosenstein’s actions and comments."

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
13. 5 eyes sees and hears everything.
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:36 PM
Jan 2019

We may not be allowed to spy on American citizens but the U.K. can and can give us the information. This is why Bin Laden and his commanders stopped using cell phones. 5 eyes or our intelligence not only tracks you by your cell phone but they know what you are saying and doing on your cell.

2naSalit

(93,070 posts)
16. Oh yeah! Just in time for another eclipse!
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:41 PM
Jan 2019

This one's the full moon total, and we'll get to see it. I am ready for the fireworks, been waiting for a couple years now...

Plastic Poncho On...Check
Helmet and goggles in place...Check
Popcorn ready...Check
Seatbelt Fastened...Check

Let's roll!

ginnyinWI

(17,276 posts)
28. We see just the tip of this iceberg.
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:17 PM
Jan 2019

My favorite part:

Okay, I’m spinning like a top here so let me bring this in for a landing: Trump has spent the last two years trying to obstruct an investigation into 2016 events... ...and little did he know, his biggest problem would prove to be what he was doing in 2017-2018.

I think we now better understand why Mueller never called in Kushner or Junior. They were caught up in a live counterintel sweep. Questioning them would have given that away. That earth-shaker is about to sink in for them. Their problems just got 10x bigger. 19/

Pepsidog

(6,317 posts)
31. Wow great post. So let me get this right, the FBI has a counterintelligence investigation into Trump
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:21 PM
Jan 2019

Russia connections then opened a new counterintelligence investigation after Dotard fired Comey. So 2 investigations:
-First investigation 1. Trump/Russia connection leading up to election.

Second 2. New investigation after Trump fired Comey and going forward and possibly continuing until this day.

Mueller will never finish cause Trump can’t stop committing crimes. Grand jury extended for another 6 months. Might as well be another 2 years at this rate.

Really you cannot make this shit up. Someday this will be a 21 part documentary like the series The World at War. Trump definitely is the best liar ever and best criminal president we have ever had.

FirstLight

(14,268 posts)
33. Thanks for putting this thread together!
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:32 PM
Jan 2019

It really is quite a bombshell...or two...or three...

so much to keep track of!

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
48. My head is spinning. Interesting whether Sessions knew.
Mon Jan 14, 2019, 08:46 PM
Jan 2019

Since he had recused himself, it's possible he was left out of the loop regarding anything involving any investigation regarding anyone on the campaign and Russia. Or...maybe he did know. He and Rosenstein were photographed at dinner together and other times. They were very chummy.

My head is spinning.

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