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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHoly cow. This NY Times story is just littered with seismic earth-shakers sure to rattle the windows
This is The Hoarse Whisperer..a thread that was hard to put together for our format...it says a lot...and in chronological order..
Holy cow. This NY Times story is just littered with seismic earth-shakers sure to rattle the windows at the White House. Yowza. My very quick first-blush take on the meaty nuggets... Lets dive in!
In the days after Comeys firing, the FBI opened a COUNTERINTELLIGENCE investigation of Trump himself. WOW! Unlike the initial Trump-Russia investigation (which was looking primarily at events in 2016), the counterintel investigation was basically surveillance in 2017+.
Naturally, deciding to basically turn your national security and intelligence magnifying glasses on the President of the United States is a BIG DEAL. The FBI didnt enter into it lightly. 3/
But then Trump fired Comey... AND... did two more things that raised red flags. The first: he wrote a letter on Comeys firing and mentioned Russia. The subtle Easter egg there: the FBI had the draft of the unsent letter. 4/
Now, tie that together with the fact that this story was broken by Mike Schmidt of the NYT. As Ive said often in the past, I am of the belief that former White House Counsel Don McGahn is Schmidts source for these big bombshells.
If that is indeed the case, McGahn may very well have been working with Mueller months earlier than we ever knew. Somehow, the FBI had a draft of an unsent letter immediately. If not McGahn, it could well have been turned over by Rosenstein. Regardless, the FBI was on it. 6/
Moving right along, the implications of this are potentially enooooormous. Mueller didnt just inherit ONE investigation focused on what happened before. He also inherited a second which was actively tracking Trumps actions AS THEY WERE UNFOLDING. 7/
That counterintelligence investigation would have required approval at the DOJ. I cant see how that would have been possible without Jeff Sessions buy-in, or at minimum, awareness. Id be shocked if that all went down without Sessions even hearing about it. 8/
Maybe Rosenstein parlayed Sessions recusal into keeping all this a secret. If thats the case, expect Trump to be looking for Rosensteins head on a platter any minute now. If he goes off on Rosenstein, Rod knew. Jefferson Beauregard didnt.
Anyway, I digress. Another doozy of this now-revealed real-time counterintel probe of Trump itself: It basically served as a safety net the entire time we sat fretting about Trump firing Mueller.
The FBI was investigating potential crimes... while also monitoring the chief potential criminal in case he tried to interfere with their work. Think about that... the FBIs counterintel resources were trained on the guy who had a private chat w Putin in Helsinki.
We dont know what actions that investigation took. It is fair to assume it included mining ongoing intel from our own resources at the NSA, etc., as well as from allies. That would have the effect of putting relevant work-product of any allys spying in Muellers hands.
Meaning, even if we werent eavesdropping on Trumps convo w Putin, his late-night phone calls, his admins back-channel contacts with Russians, etc... someone was. Whether it was the UK, Germany, Estonia, Spain, Israel, Australia or whomever, EVERYONE spies on Russia...
...and Mueller had an open folder just waiting to be filled with whatever tasty nuggets those eyes and ears happened to pass our way. Think: A real-time Steele dossier with updates baked fresh daily.
Bringing it down out of Tom Clancy Hunt for Orange October territory to a more modest, conservative takeaway, we can count on at least this much: The counterintel investigation makes it highly likely Mueller has obstruction charges nailed six ways to Sunday.
Why? The CI work was essentially spying or tracking from Comeys firing foreward. At minimum, it would have provided intel on the obstruction effort as it unfolded... and, at minimum, that would have guided Muellers interviews.
Remember all those witnesses who came out of meetings w Mueller saying he knew EVERYTHING? He did. Erik Prince, Stone, Corsi, McGahn, et al. He knew everything when they walked in. He had people paying attention after they walked out. 17/
Okay, Im spinning like a top here so let me bring this in for a landing: Trump has spent the last two years trying to obstruct an investigation into 2016 events... ...and little did he know, his biggest problem would prove to be what he was doing in 2017-2018.
I think we now better understand why Mueller never called in Kushner or Junior. They were caught up in a live counterintel sweep. Questioning them would have given that away. That earth-shaker is about to sink in for them. Their problems just got 10x bigger. 19/
Last comment. Sry for rambling. Knowing all of this, I virtually guarantee Mueller turned an insider or two. Flipped informants. Not just witnesses. Informants. Don McGahn is a prime candidate. Mueller likely turned someone in the Admin itself. Id bet many beers on it.
The Hoarse Whisperer Retweeted The New York Times
Oops. Forgot the link. Here it is.
The Hoarse Whisperer added,
The New York TimesVerified account @nytimes
President Trumps actions so alarmed the FBI after James Comeys firing that it began investigating if he was working on behalf of Russia
Okay, okay, okay, I cant stop. Im too amped up now. Im practically oscillating. Heres a delicious little karmic dessert to round out this sumptuous info feast... Remember the guy who was president before the Marmalade Menace took office? This guy... #44. Obama
On his way out the door, we all were wallowing in our winter of discontent, Obama signed an executive order... It went largely uncovered but I noted it at the time. It was like when youre watching Law & Order and they zoom in on a paperweight in Minute 5 of the show...
You just know that paperweight is gonna come back into play around Minute 55. Foreshadowing! Pretext! Other words meaning thats gonna matter! Anyway, the point is... Obama signed an EO as a parting shot one week before leaving office.
The order revised the rules around intelligence sharing among our intel community. Specifically, it made the firehose of raw intelligence collected by the NSA directly accessible to the FBI and CIA. Instead of having to ask for intel and getting what they filtered down...
The FBI and CIA could directly access the unfiltered SigInt or signals intelligence. Intercepted phone calls, emails, raw intel from human sources. Everything our vast intelligence vacuum hoovers up, available directly... but only for counterintel and foreign intel purposes.
niyad
(120,394 posts)denbot
(9,914 posts)Can't happen fast enough.
tclambert
(11,143 posts)At some point, they have to say, "Okay, from this point forward, someone else will have to investigate any new crimes."
voteearlyvoteoften
(1,716 posts)Glad for those who put country first 🇺🇸
MyOwnPeace
(17,280 posts)an avalanche of information - an avalanche that IQ45 will NOT be able to stop or hide from.
The funny thing about an avalanche - as it gains momentum it gathers more - and more - and more....................
You're going down, TRUMP!!!!!
BumRushDaShow
(143,374 posts)Later ones/follow-ups -
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1084160801756401665.html
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1084585352067723264.html <--- This thread clarifies the original thread in the OP
CrispyQ
(38,430 posts)If you wrote this into a novel a publisher would write back, "This isn't believable. Back off on some of the story lines."
My ultimate fantasy is that Trump goes down, along with the complicit GOP leadership, & that it's so bad for Putin he can't set foot outside of Russia. I don't know if that's even possible, but in my book it happens.
Dem_4_Life
(1,775 posts)I hope this is all true and we find out very soon.
erronis
(16,982 posts)his consorts/oligarchs. Hate to see anything bad happen to the ex KGB agent.
fierywoman
(8,123 posts)because of the US investigation of what Putin made happen in the US and they get rid of him.
Danascot
(4,898 posts)... along those lines, I was reading some of the hoarse whisperer's earlier threads and came across this:
What Pelosi and Schumer are actually doing though is forcing Republicans to strap in alongside Trump and take the entire Thelma and Louise trip right over the cliff with him.
Theyre baiting Trump into exactly what hes doing: showing that he is utterly incapable of reason.
4/
Chuck and Nancy are forcing Rs into a position where they have no choice but to wrestle the steering wheel away from Trump.
Theyre baiting Trump into being utterly inflexible at any cost to force his ranks to mutiny.
5/
...and once the ranks have mutinied, a Mad General never again has the same power.
Pelosi and Schumer are forcing the moment to its crisis as T.S. Elliott would say.
The ranks will break. And when they do, it wont have just won the battle; it will have also turned the war.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1083141845151088640.html
yonder
(10,005 posts)Ooohh, and this one: "Anyway, I digress. Another doozy of this now-revealed real-time counterintel probe of Trump itself: It basically served as a safety net the entire time we sat fretting about Trump firing Mueller."
From that old cop show. "let's be safe out there".
Sounds like they're covering the bases.
Stand and Fight
(7,496 posts)BumRushDaShow
(143,374 posts)The first tweet from the OP's posting of the tweet thread is here -
Link to tweet
TEXT
The Hoarse Whisperer @HoarseWisperer
Holy cow. This NY Times story is just littered with seismic earth-shakers sure to rattle the windows at the White House.
Yowza. My very quick first-blush take on the meaty nuggets...
First, heres the link:
Lets dive in!
1/
16.7K
10:40 PM - Jan 11, 2019
The rest of his twitter threads related to this subject and "unrolled" (i.e., combined by a service website that generates a single page of multiple tweets meant as a "thread" and publishes it) have links that I posted here (including the OP one) - https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211669351#post5
Stand and Fight
(7,496 posts)BumRushDaShow
(143,374 posts)jodymarie aimee
(3,975 posts)it took me 2 hrs to put this together from his tweets...taking likes, etc out...and making it legible....
BumRushDaShow
(143,374 posts)Until many of us discovered that "threadreader app" site, we had to do the same thing! It doesn't always have all the interesting threads done but does usually get the popular twitter users like Hoarse Whisperer, Seth Abramson, PopeHat (now posting under PeachesHat@PopeHat), Benjamin Wittes, etc.
colorado_ufo
(5,934 posts)of why didn't President Obama come forward with information he had about possible/probable Russian interference in the election; why didn't he do something about it?
He did.
onetexan
(13,910 posts)BigmanPigman
(52,340 posts)to get info on tRump back in Sept. I remember thinking why would the NYTimes give info to tRump so he could fire Rosenstein? He said his source was secret of course.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/27/reader-center/rod-rosenstein-reporting.html
"Why would The New York Times print a story that would give the president the legitimate excuse he was searching for to justify firing Rosenstein and thereby stop the Mueller investigation? The consequence of printing this story is certain; Rosenstein will be fired to stop Mueller."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/us/politics/rod-rosenstein-wear-wire-25th-amendment.html
"Mr. Rosenstein made the remarks about secretly recording Mr. Trump and about the 25th Amendment in meetings and conversations with other Justice Department and F.B.I. officials. Several people described the episodes in interviews over the past several months, insisting on anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. The people were briefed either on the events themselves or on memos written by F.B.I. officials, including Andrew G. McCabe, then the acting bureau director, that documented Mr. Rosensteins actions and comments."
hedda_foil
(16,512 posts)BigmanPigman
(52,340 posts)watoos
(7,142 posts)We may not be allowed to spy on American citizens but the U.K. can and can give us the information. This is why Bin Laden and his commanders stopped using cell phones. 5 eyes or our intelligence not only tracks you by your cell phone but they know what you are saying and doing on your cell.
Mme. Defarge
(8,559 posts)Sacré bleu!
Incroyable! Formidable! Etc.
2naSalit
(93,070 posts)I was hoping there was this case progressing under the radar, good to know.
Mme. Defarge
(8,559 posts)You cant make this merde up!
2naSalit
(93,070 posts)with my suspicions from early on.
2naSalit
(93,070 posts)This one's the full moon total, and we'll get to see it. I am ready for the fireworks, been waiting for a couple years now...
Plastic Poncho On...Check
Helmet and goggles in place...Check
Popcorn ready...Check
Seatbelt Fastened...Check
Let's roll!
BarbD
(1,226 posts)BlueJac
(7,838 posts)alwaysinasnit
(5,272 posts)alfredo
(60,146 posts)ginnyinWI
(17,276 posts)My favorite part:
I think we now better understand why Mueller never called in Kushner or Junior. They were caught up in a live counterintel sweep. Questioning them would have given that away. That earth-shaker is about to sink in for them. Their problems just got 10x bigger. 19/
Lotus54
(44 posts)Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Pepsidog
(6,317 posts)Russia connections then opened a new counterintelligence investigation after Dotard fired Comey. So 2 investigations:
-First investigation 1. Trump/Russia connection leading up to election.
Second 2. New investigation after Trump fired Comey and going forward and possibly continuing until this day.
Mueller will never finish cause Trump cant stop committing crimes. Grand jury extended for another 6 months. Might as well be another 2 years at this rate.
Really you cannot make this shit up. Someday this will be a 21 part documentary like the series The World at War. Trump definitely is the best liar ever and best criminal president we have ever had.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)nt
FirstLight
(14,268 posts)It really is quite a bombshell...or two...or three...
so much to keep track of!
tblue37
(66,035 posts)bobbieinok
(12,858 posts)jodymarie aimee
(3,975 posts)but it was worth it...
bobbieinok
(12,858 posts)Hassler
(3,751 posts)onlyadream
(2,221 posts)Was he unaware of it???
BadGimp
(4,063 posts)JHB
(37,442 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Since he had recused himself, it's possible he was left out of the loop regarding anything involving any investigation regarding anyone on the campaign and Russia. Or...maybe he did know. He and Rosenstein were photographed at dinner together and other times. They were very chummy.
My head is spinning.
Sancho
(9,106 posts)BlueJac
(7,838 posts)IronLionZion
(47,035 posts)making them feel the squeeze out of spite
northoftheborder
(7,610 posts)Thanks! this is going into my page save file