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Thu Jan 17, 2019, 03:02 PM

About Gillibrand and Franken - a letter, not mine.

U.S. Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand of New York won’t get my vote in any Democratic presidential primary election (“Gillibrand says she is running in 2020,” Jan. 16). More than anyone else, she is responsible for the abrupt resignation of Sen. Al Franken following several allegations of inappropriate conduct toward women several years ago. Franken’s earlier conduct, when he was a comedian, even if proven, was minuscule, apologized for, and he was prepared to go before the Senate Ethics Committee for a fair hearing. The fusillade led by Gillibrand struck him hard, and he resigned. I submit that he would never have been forced to resign after a Senate hearing. His long record of USO volunteering, progressive stances and civic involvement were disregarded by Gillibrand.

Franken had literally become a “Giant of the Senate,” the title of his latest book, during his short tenure, and that trait had displayed itself in several areas, not the least of which was as a member of the Judiciary Committee.

There is no question that one is responsible for one’s conduct, and that the #MeToo movement has opened our eyes to abuses that have been overlooked for decades. You can’t outrun your past. Which is why, as I look over Gillibrand’s past, I wonder how she rationalizes her legal work defending Philip Morris in the 1990s when the damage of nicotine was first being brought to public attention, or her then-100 percent approval rating from the National Rifle Association, or her outspoken opposition to amnesty for undocumented immigrants, or her strenuous opposition to legalizing same-sex marriage. I’m sure she says that she has grown since then. She’s had the chance that she denied Franken, to explain away her shortcomings on those important social issues.

In her words, as she castigated Franken, “Sometimes you just have to do what’s right — even if it’s painful.” Exposing hypocrisy is painful, but attacking a peer as she did is a two-edged sword. She will not get my vote, even if it’s painful.

Alan Miller, Eagan

http://www.startribune.com/readers-write-kirsten-gillibrand-and-the-presidency-border-wall-liberty-and-inequality-technology-and-global-competitiveness/504453152/

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Reply About Gillibrand and Franken - a letter, not mine. (Original post)
question everything Jan 2019 OP
handmade34 Jan 2019 #1
lark Jan 2019 #11
Glaisne Jan 2019 #120
trueblue2007 Jan 2019 #139
NurseJackie Jan 2019 #18
Eliot Rosewater Jan 2019 #54
NurseJackie Jan 2019 #59
Eliot Rosewater Jan 2019 #64
NurseJackie Jan 2019 #69
Raster Jan 2019 #88
mahina Jan 2019 #101
pazzyanne Jan 2019 #125
question everything Jan 2019 #133
maui902 Jan 2019 #153
DFW Jan 2019 #98
Pepsidog Jan 2019 #19
iluvtennis Jan 2019 #38
wryter2000 Jan 2019 #47
RVN VET71 Jan 2019 #61
greblach Jan 2019 #99
Rene Jan 2019 #2
question everything Jan 2019 #5
certainot Jan 2019 #90
Timewas Jan 2019 #3
Squinch Jan 2019 #4
Demit Jan 2019 #9
crazycatlady Jan 2019 #16
Gidney N Cloyd Jan 2019 #31
wryter2000 Jan 2019 #48
Gidney N Cloyd Jan 2019 #79
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #62
Gidney N Cloyd Jan 2019 #78
suegeo Jan 2019 #82
Gidney N Cloyd Jan 2019 #85
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #102
NotAPuppet Jan 2019 #138
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #143
NotAPuppet Jan 2019 #147
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #148
Post removed Jan 2019 #146
pazzyanne Jan 2019 #131
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #141
pazzyanne Jan 2019 #142
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #145
pazzyanne Jan 2019 #150
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #151
pazzyanne Jan 2019 #152
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #154
pazzyanne Jan 2019 #155
Perseus Jan 2019 #32
PatSeg Jan 2019 #52
question everything Jan 2019 #72
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #63
The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2019 #41
wryter2000 Jan 2019 #51
PatSeg Jan 2019 #55
FuzzyRabbit Jan 2019 #74
PatSeg Jan 2019 #84
loyalsister Jan 2019 #44
Demit Jan 2019 #49
crazycatlady Jan 2019 #58
kag Jan 2019 #71
question everything Jan 2019 #73
Caliman73 Jan 2019 #119
Demit Jan 2019 #75
crazycatlady Jan 2019 #81
question everything Jan 2019 #87
crazycatlady Jan 2019 #89
SleeplessinSoCal Jan 2019 #50
kag Jan 2019 #57
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #68
Caliman73 Jan 2019 #121
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #128
Caliman73 Jan 2019 #129
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #149
Gidney N Cloyd Jan 2019 #80
Cassidy Jan 2019 #97
question everything Jan 2019 #135
LakeArenal Jan 2019 #105
dchill Jan 2019 #24
USALiberal Jan 2019 #30
Squinch Jan 2019 #45
2naSalit Jan 2019 #6
Ernesto Jan 2019 #7
oasis Jan 2019 #8
lark Jan 2019 #12
hlthe2b Jan 2019 #10
SDJay Jan 2019 #91
aikoaiko Jan 2019 #13
rbnyc Jan 2019 #107
LakeArenal Jan 2019 #110
ananda Jan 2019 #14
handmade34 Jan 2019 #15
Perseus Jan 2019 #34
zentrum Jan 2019 #17
TexasBushwhacker Jan 2019 #65
zentrum Jan 2019 #77
suegeo Jan 2019 #83
mahina Jan 2019 #103
pazzyanne Jan 2019 #134
mahina Jan 2019 #136
MoonRiver Jan 2019 #20
LisaM Jan 2019 #21
deurbano Jan 2019 #25
mastermind Jan 2019 #22
Gidney N Cloyd Jan 2019 #28
LakeArenal Jan 2019 #113
CaptYossarian Jan 2019 #23
SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #29
thesquanderer Jan 2019 #93
LakeArenal Jan 2019 #114
thesquanderer Jan 2019 #118
Gidney N Cloyd Jan 2019 #26
The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2019 #27
pamdb Jan 2019 #33
Perseus Jan 2019 #39
LakeArenal Jan 2019 #112
Duppers Jan 2019 #35
Perseus Jan 2019 #36
The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2019 #42
question everything Jan 2019 #76
LakeArenal Jan 2019 #115
Caliman73 Jan 2019 #122
marble falls Jan 2019 #37
pdsimdars Jan 2019 #40
bitterross Jan 2019 #43
Hangdog Slim Jan 2019 #46
wryter2000 Jan 2019 #53
marieo1 Jan 2019 #56
SergeStorms Jan 2019 #60
Butterflylady Jan 2019 #66
JNelson6563 Jan 2019 #67
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #70
DFW Jan 2019 #111
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #123
DFW Jan 2019 #130
question everything Jan 2019 #137
DFW Jan 2019 #140
Zen Democrat Jan 2019 #86
mentalslavery Jan 2019 #92
cannabis_flower Jan 2019 #94
LittleGirl Jan 2019 #95
padah513 Jan 2019 #96
mahina Jan 2019 #100
flying_wahini Jan 2019 #104
Trumpocalypse Jan 2019 #106
firstwife Jan 2019 #108
Perrenial Voter Jan 2019 #109
MrModerate Jan 2019 #117
LakeArenal Jan 2019 #126
MrModerate Jan 2019 #116
Power 2 the People Jan 2019 #124
NoMoreRepugs Jan 2019 #127
Collimator Jan 2019 #132
cp Jan 2019 #144

Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 03:08 PM

1. ...

She will not get my vote in the primaries... if she becomes the candidate (not likely, but if) I will vote for her and do whatever work it takes to get a Democrat elected!!

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 03:47 PM

11. I'm with you 100%.

I'd vote for my sick old cat if he was the general election nominee with a D, so I'd vote for her, holding my nose every minute of the way.

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Response to lark (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 01:44 PM

120. Bill the Cat

for president!

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Response to lark (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 03:16 PM

139. or mine. she should be ashamed of herself.

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 04:54 PM

18. Don't worry. She'll NEVER become our party's nominee.

Not a chance.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #18)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:03 PM

54. I will never understand how that went down. Dont see ANYBODY winning in that one.

Al Franken NEVER inappropriately touched ANYONE

Tweeden OF COURSE lied about tongue down her throat, duh and the WORST other allegation was normal behavour in broad daylight in public situations.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #54)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:15 PM

59. If I can't trust her judgement on something like this...

... I wouldn't ever be able to trust that the wisest decision had been made for even MORE difficult moments. When it comes to the person our party chooses to nominate, we can do better. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to aspire to.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #59)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:22 PM

64. It is so absurd it is almost comical. Al Franken, for those who know him and his family

and I know someone who sort of does, is the squeakiest clean of the clean.

And he is known for being very friendly IN PUBLIC with everyone and is guilty of APPROPRIATE hugs.

He is an angel compared to any republican, especially the vile pile of garbage in the WH.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #64)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:31 PM

69. He was railroaded and denied the investigation he sought.

He was also smart enough to know that fighting (rightly to) for his reputation would also split the party and cause great damage. The ill conceived intra-party attacks against him had already begun... and the "ringleader" had caused too much damage already.

Franken knew this and he was MORE concerned for the future and strength of the party than he was for himself. He sacrificed himself for the sake of the party and to avoid a prolonged battle with those who had already boxed themselves in... and who were unable to do the right thing, or the fair thing.

Franken is, and will always be, a HERO to me. I admire him for the decisions he made and for the things he chose not to do (although he had every right to do) in defending his office, his integrity, and his reputation.

I will never forgive or trust the ringleader/s... and I'll always have doubts and resentment for the bandwagon-hoppers who neglected to think things through clearly and fairly. He was denied the due process he sought. He was railroaded. It was unfair. It was unjust. It was stupid.

As a party we are diminished because of it.

God Bless Al Franken! We need him now more than ever!! It's our great loss not to have him.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #69)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 05:42 AM

88. In all of the Senate, Franken was the one tRump* and his minions feared the most...

...with his down-home demeanor and folksy, approachable attitude and a cutting, cunning wit, he was the perfect public foil to the reich-wing insanity...

Senator Franken was rat-fucked by Roger "lying sack of shit" Stone* and then railroaded by the Dems in the Senate.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #69)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 11:59 AM

101. +1

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #69)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 02:01 PM

125. Thank you for this wonderful post in support of Al Franken,

from this Minnesotan. I am typing this thank you with tears in my eyes. Al is and will continue to be a hero for me as well. Have you noticed all the lawsuits from his accusers? No, neither have I. It's been pretty quiet on that front. I am hoping that he will run for office in the future. We need people like him in our government!

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #69)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 02:26 PM

133. I think that he realized that he was losing his effectiveness with these bogus claims

coming every day. The drip drip drip method that we've seen with Hillary's emails before the elections.

I think that the would have chosen to resign on his own but wanted to wait for the ethics committee.

Gillibrand, and Harris, and Warren and the rest of them should not have jumped to push him. (I am mentioned the names of wannabe candidates).


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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #69)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 08:39 PM

153. I want to thank you as well

Sometimes others on DU capture exactly what I'm thinking before I have the chance to post. Your post did exactly that. I've contacted my representatives in Arizona--where I live--many times, but the one and only time I reached out to an elected member of Congress was to call Senator Franken's office to beg him to stay. Given the climate at the time, I understand why he chose to resign, but it pained me all the more that one of our best and brightest resigned out of principle and never had the chance to effectively defend himself. Still hoping he chooses some role as a public servant in the future. We need his voice and understanding.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #64)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 11:44 AM

98. Consider that confirmed. n/t

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 04:55 PM

19. My feelings as well.

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:31 PM

38. ...

Ditto

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:50 PM

47. My feelings exactly

But then, even if it weren't for how she went after Franken, she still isn't my favorite of the candidates we have so far.

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Response to wryter2000 (Reply #47)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:16 PM

61. Her past is ugly and what she did to Franken even uglier

If the Dems give her the nomination, I'll lose my already shaky faith in the party. But I will hold my nose and vote for her and hope for the future. Better to have a temporizing and overly ambitious president of dubious principles than any -- I repeat ANY -- member of the Corporate Fascist party

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 11:45 AM

99. Franken 2020

I agree with this post... gonna have to come up with a whopper of a clothes pin if she does happen to get the nomination....

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 03:09 PM

2. I personally agree completely with that letter.

Gillebrand...sit down..you'll never get nominated, let alone elected.

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Response to Rene (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 03:18 PM

5. Yes, I could not have said it better

And her announcement - giggling like a teen girl, holding hands of a late night comedian... how can she expect any respect? Does she want to out-Trump by not being presidential?

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Response to Rene (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 10:14 AM

90. the loudest distortion was constant from the radio, limbaugh,

the way it went after christine blasey ford.

she was way too sensitive and responsive to a few hundred radio blowhards

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 03:15 PM

3. Agreed

There are many more to choose from she is not even on my list...

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 03:17 PM

4. If you don't want to vote for Gillibrand in the primaries, don't do it.

We will have plenty of fabulous candidates to choose from. But, just for now, there is no reason we need to air or publicly dwell on conflicts within the Democratic party.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 03:35 PM

9. Sorry, not going to self-censor. DU is exactly the place to debate Democratic primary matters.

 

It's intra-party discussion. I don't agree that we should somehow be afraid of it.

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Response to Demit (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 04:39 PM

16. it is not the place to demonize women fighting against sexual harassment

Even if the man is a fan favorite. I don't care if he has a D or an R next to his name. If this were Mitch McConnell, I would want the same thing to happen.

Anthony Weiner was a great congressman. He gave one of the most heartfelt and passionate floor speeches ever when it came to 9/11 first responders. He was good at his job. However, he tweeted his dick. It shows a lack of judgment on his part and a disrespect for 50% of the population.

For decades, women have been afraid to speak up about sexual harassment. When the perpetrator is a fan favorite on here, he does not get admonished, but instead the colleague who spoke up against him does as well as his victims.

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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:20 PM

31. We only wanted that 'fan favorite' to have his day in court, so to speak, with the ethics panel.

If Gillibrand were interested in justice then that's what she would have called for as well.
I believe Franken not only would have been exonerated but it may have revealed a conspiracy against him from the likes of Roger Stone.

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Response to Gidney N Cloyd (Reply #31)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:52 PM

48. OMG, your user name

The two moon men. A Rocky and Bullwinkle fan.

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Response to wryter2000 (Reply #48)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 08:30 PM

79. +1

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Response to Gidney N Cloyd (Reply #31)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:19 PM

62. You really believe that the republicans

 

on the ethics committee would have given Franken a fair hearing? They would have turned it into a circus to humiliate Franken and paint any Dem who defended him as a hypocrite.

Plus an ethics committee hearing is not a finding of guilt or innocence. It is just a determination if congressional ethics rules had been violated.

And were all 7 women who came forward part of Stone's conspiracy? Is there any evidence to support that?

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #62)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 08:29 PM

78. Well, you've got three questions there and I guess they'll never be answered.

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Response to Gidney N Cloyd (Reply #78)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:10 PM

82. Were basic background checks on the accusers done?

I live and vote in Minnesota. I ask this question a lot at DFL functions. Representatives never get back to me with an answer.

If Conducted, did the background checks turn up anything corrupt, like , for example, did Tweeden's buddy Don Jr allow her to live rent free in a Trump property condo somewhere? Did she get a Trump Org payoff from Michael Cohn to lie/spill the beans, like the opposite of Stormy Daniels who they wanted to shut up? Shit, even a box of Trump steaks? Some ugly sweatshop dresses under the Ivanka label?

Did any of the other accusers have bank accounts in Cyprus filled with rubles? Paid cash under the table?

Republicans and Roger Stone are well practiced at rat fucking. Looks like K.G. took the bait, along with others. And what was the fucking rush?

Given the still on going Putin interference in our democracy, smart Democrats would have done extensive background checks, the kind that take time to do right and thoroughly. An investigation, which Franken called for, well who knows what that might have turned up.

Given the haste to drum my senator out, I wondered at the time, "what's the rush, Ms. junior senator from New York?" Did she do something that she was being blackmailed for ? Shut it down,Kirsten, or else?I

Did some laundered Russian blood money make its way through the NRA to Gillibrand?

I have so many...questions.

And I am still pissed my vote was stolen from me

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Response to suegeo (Reply #82)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:36 PM

85. You raise a great point-- if KG was interested in justice, she could have shut down the railroading.

She built a reputation as a leader in sexual harassment issues and if she said "wait a minute, let's see what's really going on here" it would have carried a great deal of weight and authority that others didn't have.

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Response to suegeo (Reply #82)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:03 PM

102. They don't usually run background checks on victims

 

unless there is evidence to do so.

Is there any evidence of any of what you're suggesting?

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #102)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 03:13 PM

138. Victims of what?

A scripted kiss during a public rehearsal? None of the stories made any sense.

I support victims of sexual assault, but I will never support fake accusers who are friends with Stone and Hannity. In this case, I would definitely like to know more about the background of the women who came forward.

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Response to NotAPuppet (Reply #138)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 03:43 PM

143. Tweeden was a fake.

 

No argument three. But there were seven other women. Is there any evidence which shows all other 7 were lying too?

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #143)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 05:02 PM

147. Ok, let's look at the other accusers!

Accuser # 2 said that Franken “put his hand full-fledged on my rear… It was wrapped tightly around my butt cheek” while her husband was taking a picture.

Then 2 unnamed women made statements. One alleged that Franken touched her behind while they were taking a picure together, the other woman alleged that Franken suggested to meet her in the (public) bathroom during a convention.

Accuser # 5 states that Franken grabbed her breast while they were taking a picture together.

Then we heard from 2 more unnamed women who alleged that Franken loses them on the mouth.

There is not one convincing allegation against Franken, and 4 out of 7 allegations were made by unknown accusers. And yes, I would like for someone to investigate the motives of the women who made serious allegations against Franken.





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Response to NotAPuppet (Reply #147)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 05:31 PM

148. OK

 

Read this article: http://time.com/5042931/al-franken-accusers/

One is an Army veteran. I'm not prepared to call her, or any of the other 6 women, a liar without some evidence.

A big part of the Me Too movement is that women deserve to be believed. That can't be a convenient principle that we only apply to others and not our friends. So there are 7 women, other than Tweeden, who deserve respect until it can be proven they were lying.

I'm not saying that Franken is guilty or a bad person. Even if every allegation were true the worst anyone can say is that he was rude. That is nothing compared to people like Cosby or Weinstein. The problem was the timing. Had these allegations had not come out during the height of the Me Too movement, Franken would have likely survived. In the end, he got screwed by circumstance.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #102)


Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #62)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 02:12 PM

131. How many of those 7 women filed lawsuits against Al Franken?

The minute he resign nothing happened. Nothing! No further accusers, no legal actions, no evidence was made available, etc. The republicans wanted him gone, and they succeeded. Minnesota was in the Republican's sights in the midterm elections as well. The same playbook was used against Keith Ellison. Days before the primary out came the accusations. Most Minnesotans did not buy in this time and voted for him to see how the allegations played out. Two investigation found nothing. The playbook did not work this time, and Minnesota stayed blue. We need to be aware that there is a Republican playbook out there, and we have to guard against falling for it.

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #131)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 03:36 PM

141. Why would they?

 

I don’t think any said that he had done anything criminal.

Leanne Tweeden was a right wing plant that is obvious. However there were seven other women. Is there any evidence that shows all of them were lying?

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #141)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 03:40 PM

142. No evidence was found to support the allegations.

In fact, poof! All of those allegations magically disappeared.

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #142)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 03:45 PM

145. What proof?

 

It was just the word of the women. Any evidence that all of them were lying?

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #145)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 08:18 PM

150. ...

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #150)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 08:24 PM

151. I' take that as a no

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #151)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 08:26 PM

152. You can take it anyway you want.

Hope you have a nice day, Trumpocalypse! I think you could use one?

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #152)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 08:47 PM

154. Have a nice day too

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #154)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 11:26 PM

155. Thank you!

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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:26 PM

32. Weiner and Franken are not a good comparison

 

Franken has been a voice for women, what Gillebran did was wrong and it showed poor judgement on her part, one wants a president who can sit down and rationalize his/her decisions and not fly to a decision because that is what their gut tells them. We now have two bad experiences with people who make decisions from their guts, GW and the orange buffoon.

By the way, I am not comparing Gillibran to those two, she is definitely a smart woman, but looking at her history she seems to be someone who looks for opportunities and may not adhere, by convenience, to her principles much.

This is my take on her, and I could be wrong, and I don't know if she ever was part of the republican party, but her ideologies seem to have been more to the right than to the left, according to her she has changed her views and last night she gave a performance at Rachel Maddow, who by the way let her off the hook never asking about Franken, and explained what made her change. I say a performance because I feel she over did it, she put drama in her huge speech (voice changes, facial drama, etc.) and maybe I am not being fair to her, but it looked very fake to me.

Anyway, I feel she did a lot of damage to the Democratic party by going after Franken. Did she see Franken as a threat for a presidential run? I don't know, but I do know that I want a president who will take his/her time making decisions and not go so readily into panic mode.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #32)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:00 PM

52. I agree with everything you said

It sure seemed like she changed her views on an awful lot of stuff. I accept that people can and do evolve on some issues, but in her case, it looked like a total personality transplant. Gillibrand the congresswoman looked more like a republican. I think she has been running for president for a long time and calling for Franken's resignation was probably part of it.

I also agree that it was a performance and it was over the top, she was probably expecting a lot of push back on her many flip-flops. I hate to tell her, but this is only the beginning. There will be more scrutiny and questions in the coming months and I didn't find her "performance" very convincing.

Oh and remember a year ago when she said Bill Clinton should have resigned the presidency over the Lewinsky scandal? Philippe Reines, a former aide to Hillary Clinton lashed out at Gillibrand on Twitter:

“Ken Starr spent $70 million on a consensual blowjob. Senate voted to keep [President Clinton]. But not enough for you @SenGillibrand? Over 20 yrs you took the Clintons’ endorsements, money, and seat. Hypocrite. Interesting strategy for 2020 primaries. Best of luck."

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/17/kirsten-gillibrand-bill-clinton-democrats-247427

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #52)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:57 PM

72. Forgot about that. This, alone, should disqualify her

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Response to Perseus (Reply #32)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:21 PM

63. She and over 30 other Senators

 

Remember she wasn't alone.

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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:37 PM

41. Franken wanted an investigation, which he did not receive.

Generally speaking, people who are accused of something and who request an investigation of it are pretty sure they'll be exonerated. What if he'd been given the investigation he wanted and it turned out that none of the claims were true? We know LeAnn Tweeden was a pal of Sean Hannity and Roger Stone and she never complained about the alleged harassment until Franken started going after Jeff Sessions, and the other accusers were anonymous and their claims were never tested at all. Even men should be allowed the chance to respond to their accusers. If an investigation had confirmed the claims, fine; but he was railroaded out of the Senate without a fair chance to defend himself. Gillibrand used the incident and the momentum from the MeToo movement to further her own ambitions.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #41)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:57 PM

51. I won't defend any of the other men accused

But the case against Franken was ridiculous. One stupid picture, for which he apologized and the woman accepted his apology. The rest of the accusations were ridiculous. Abusers don't do it in front of cameras with the victim's husband standing nearby. Virtually all of the women he worked with at SNL and all the women who worked on his staff stood up for him.

There should have been an investigation. If he'd been guilty, all the evidence would have come out. I believe he was innocent, and he was denied a chance to be exonerated. Now, we're missing his very powerful voice in the Senate. Bear in mind, without him, Sessions would never have recused himself from overseeing the Mueller investigation.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #41)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:04 PM

55. And LeAnn was buddies with

Don Trump Jr. as well. The only thing that Franken admitted to was the inappropriate photo and he understandably apologized for it. Everything else just reeked of a right-wing, Roger Stone style setup.

If people like Stone can do this to Franken, they can do it to other prominent Democrats as well.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #55)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 07:12 PM

74. They are going to try

If people like Stone can do this to Franken, they can do it to other prominent Democrats as well.

They are going to try, and with Russia's help as well.

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Response to FuzzyRabbit (Reply #74)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:50 PM

84. I don't doubt it

and I'm sure they snickered when prominent Democrats threw Franken under the bus. We really need to be smarter than that.

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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:42 PM

44. + 1

I get echoes of a choir singing Stand By Your Man every time her name comes up.

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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:52 PM

49. I disagree with your characterization that Gillibrand is being "demonized" here.

 

She made a political calculation and she is being judged on it now. That's perfectly fair, in my book.

Many of us, including women, feel that the punishment she lobbied her colleagues hard for— hounding Franken out of the Senate—didn't fit the crime.

You use the term "fan favorite," as if politics is a game show, with Gillibrand on the celebrity panel of judges. I think politics is serious business, and I think she made a serious political miscalculation. There will be other things she's judged on in her quest to be president, but her instincts on how the Franken matter should have been handled, or could have been handled, will rightfully be part of the mix.

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Response to Demit (Reply #49)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:12 PM

58. She might as well be Satan on this forum

I've never seen so much hatred for a Democrat on a Democratic forum. I feel so unpopular here just because I like her and the work she's accomplished. WHen she was appointed to the senate, she focused on sexual assault in the military.

I'm also speaking as someone who has had my character assaulted when I was sexually assaulted in middle school (the perp was popular and it turned into he said she said with his word trumping mine. He didn't even get a slap on the wrist).

A previous poster here was tying a victim to Sean Hannity-- whether that is true or not, her allegations need to stand on their own, not based on her ties to someone else. This is a textbook example of why some women don't want to give their names when speaking about sexual assault.

This was also around the time of the Alabama election, where a pedophile almost became a senator. I think had Al Franken remained in the senate, Doug Jones would have lost the election because there was no consistency. What ousting AF did was show Alabama (and the country) of the party's zero tolerance policy for sexual assault. The result was a Democrat being elected in ALABAMA of all places (something I didn't think I'd see in my lifetime-- and I'm a generation younger than most of this forum).

There were also over 30 senators calling for his resignation, but the focus here is on just one.

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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #58)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:38 PM

71. I am truly sorry that you were victimized while still so young.

Sexual harassment/abuse is crushing and painful for anyone, but for one so young it can be devastating.

And I would never take sides against a victim of abuse in favor of her assailant. True sexual predators have no place in our government.

I don't believe anyone here means to attack you for supporting Senator Gillibrand. She has indeed done important work for women, especially military women, while in the senate. I just believe, like many others here, that her attack on Senator Franken (and yes there were others, but she was first and most vocal) was premature and unfounded, and cost us an effective, passionate, and honorable senator.

We can disagree without being nasty to one another, something that sets us apart from the GOP these days.

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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #58)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 07:10 PM

73. Gillibrand "focused on sexual assault in the military" - as did Franken, on defense contractors

On Tuesday night, the Minnesota Democrat got his first piece of legislation passed by the United States Senate via roll call vote. The amendment stopped federal funding for those defense contractors who used mandatory arbitration clauses to deny victims of assault the right to bring their case to court. It passed by a 68-30 margin with nine Republicans joining each voting Democrat.

“The story came to my attention of Jamie Leigh Jones who, when she was 19, went to Iraq to work for [defense contractor] KBR and she was put in the barracks with 400 men and was sexually harassed,” Franken told the Huffington Post in a brief interview shortly after the vote. “She complained. But they didn’t do anything about it. She was drugged and gang raped and they locked her up in a shipping container. She tried to sue KBR and they said you have a mandatory arbitration clause in your contract. She tried to fight back and said this is ridiculous. She took it to court and they have been fighting her for three years.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/07/franken-gets-first-amendm_n_312399.html


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Response to question everything (Reply #73)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 01:35 PM

119. I remember that. They showed the case on an HBO special.

He would not let Jones' case go even after hitting roadblock after roadblock. I do not want to in anyway dismiss or disparage the experiences of people who have been sexually abused. We may never really know what happened with Al Franken and the women who alleged that he touched them in appropriately. I do remember however, how passionately he fought for justice for Jones and other victims of sexual abuse. Gillibrand isn't the only Senator who was leading the fight against sexual assault.

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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #58)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 07:20 PM

75. You just made the case for Franken having been a sacrificial lamb.

 

Deliberately sacrificed for show.

I'm afraid I don't agree that zero tolerance policies are an unalloyed good. They result in things like six-year-olds being expelled because they brought a penknife to school. They result in cruelly long prison sentences for people caught with marijuana. Trump's zero tolerance policy is separating immigrant children from their families right now. Zero tolerance policies are over broad and unduly punitive. I think they destroy far more than they accomplish.

Regarding those other senators: the focus is on Gillibrand and not them because sexual assault was her flagship issue, and she made sure Franken's actions—or actually, the actions he was accused of—fit nicely into it. I think you'd be hard put to name one senator out of those 30 who would have led the charge to ride Al Franken out of the Senate other than Kirsten Gillibrand.

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Response to Demit (Reply #75)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:00 PM

81. Let me ask about the Weiner hearings, the Conyers hearings, etc

As far as I'm aware (and correct me if I'm wrong), most people accused of sexual misconduct do not have hearings. This seems like it would have been an unprecedented move.

Can you name one other politician accused of sexual misconduct that had hearings related to it in their (legislative) body (obviously this excludes confirmation hearings a la Brett Kavanaugh)? (House, Senate, State House).

And FWIW #metoo did take down an anti-Trumper who had the power to press charges against Trump and his family (and was preparing evidence). I mourned the loss, but he's since been replaced by a fierce woman of color who's going to come through. (NY AG Eric Schnidermann)

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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #81)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 01:57 AM

87. Senator Bob Packwood, a Republican, in the early 90s

The Ethics Committee's indictment, running to ten-volumes and 10,145 pages, much of it from Packwood's own writings, according to a report in The New York Times, detailed the sexual misconduct, obstruction of justice, and ethics charges being made against him.[37] The chairman of the Ethics Committee, Republican senator Mitch McConnell, referred to Packwood's "habitual pattern of aggressive, blatantly sexual advances, mostly directed at members of his own staff or others whose livelihoods were connected in some way to his power and authority as a Senator" and said Packwood's behaviour included "deliberately altering and destroying relevant portions of his diary" which Packwood himself had written in the diary were "very incriminating information"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Packwood

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Response to question everything (Reply #87)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 09:53 AM

89. thank you

I was a kid at the time so I have no recollection of this.

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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:56 PM

50. Notice that Louis CK is on the road and getting standing O's for doubling down.

She is myopic to a fault.

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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:12 PM

57. Respectfully, I think you're missing the point.

I was perfectly satisfied with the punishment imposed on Anthony Weiner. Yes, he was an excellent congressperson, but he also showed very poor judgment, and very little respect for women...many times. I was also satisfied with the resignation of John Conyers, Jr. who also behaved badly, and then lied about it. It was tough to lose Conyers, who had been chair of the House Judiciary Committee, but it was just. Both of these men, and several others, had credible allegations made about sexual harassment and persuasive stories about bad behavior.

Franken was/is not just a "fan favorite". He was an effective, eloquent, smart, and passionate member of the Senate. But when allegations began coming out about him they were of a vastly different quality than those about other famous men.

First of all, his first and loudest "victim" is well-known Republican talk-show host and political operative Leeann Tweeden. Her cries of "harassment" included the famous photo, and other stories that were quickly contradicted by witnesses.

The photo was alarming until put into context, which she never did. From others we learned that she was "in on" the joke, pretending to be asleep. Also, the USO tour was famously bawdy, and video quickly arose of her behaving much more suggestively than Franken had in the photo. Other accusations made against Franken were either anonymous or clearly misunderstandings (e.g. he touched a woman's bare waist when putting his arm around her for a photo). None came anywhere near the level of Weiner's transgressions. He never sent dick pix, he was not accused of unwanted advances, and he certainly never forced himself on a woman without consent.

The calls for his resignation, however, came fast, loud, and with no investigation, and from no one faster and louder than Senator Gillibrand. She and others railroaded him out of the senate without so much as an acknowledgement of his heartfelt apology or even time to allow the ethics committee to take a peek at the allegations.

So when you say, "When the perpetrator is a fan favorite on here, he does not get admonished, but instead the colleague who spoke up against him does as well as his victims," I don't know what you're talking about.

Leeann Tweeden was not afraid to speak up, in fact she clearly enjoyed the attention. Also, she was not a "victim." Franken had no "victims." Tweeden was lying, and others were either also lying or had misunderstood an innocent action. All of these women, however, received an expressive and sincere apology from Franken for any discomfort he may have caused them. Also, Franken welcomed, but never received, an investigation into the accusations.

Still, Gillibrand quickly called for his resignation (a move even Republicans weren't pushing for yet), ignoring all of the facts, lumping Franken in with attempted rapists and misogynistic men, and ridding herself of what I can only assume she she considered to be tough competition for leadership roles in the Democratic caucus in the senate.

Al Franken is one of the most honorable men to ever serve in the senate. I will hold my nose and vote for Senator Gillibrand if I have to, but I would vastly prefer to be voting for Al Franken.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #68)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 01:47 PM

121. FYI, you are posting a hit piece by a right winger.

Siraj Hashmi is a commentary video editor and writer for the Washington Examiner. He previously served as assisting editor for Red Alert Politics and was an associate producer at SiriusXM Radio.

I do agree that Gillibrand was not the first to call for Franken to resign. That was Schumer. She did become very loud and consistent with the calls however.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #121)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 02:01 PM

128. Loud and consistent??

 

She made a Facebook post and had a press conference with several other Senators.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #128)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 02:08 PM

129. Yes. That opened the floodgates

Until she came out, the ethics hearing was a viable reality. I notice you didn't respond to pointing out that you were using right wing sources to defend your position.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #129)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 05:40 PM

149. An ethnics committee hearing

 

is not what you think. It is not an investigation like the Mueller probe. Nor is it a determination of guilt or innocence. It is more of a political function. The republicans on that committee would have made it a circus to humiliate Franken.

As far as the source, was there anything factually incorrect in the article posted. If there is, please point it out.

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Response to kag (Reply #57)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 08:37 PM

80. +1

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Response to kag (Reply #57)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 11:40 AM

97. Excellent details. Knee-jerk reactions do not serve any of us well.

I saw a video of Leeann Tweeden at the USO tour, it must have been linked on DU. Among other bawdy behaviors, I remember her onstage rubbing her backside against a singer who looked annoyed and embarrassed. I also remember that Leeann Tweeden did not want an investigation. To my mind, those things do not support her claims of victimization by Franken.

I am female and worked in male dominated professions for much of my adult life. I have experienced harassment and assault. I know that people react differently to these crimes, but everything I read and saw of her just seemed not to support her allegations against Franken. Yes, the photo of him pretending to touch her breasts was in poor taste, was he even actually touching her? It didn't look like it to me. It looked like he was pretending to for the photo.

All of the other allegations apparently happened at state fairs and other public places. Although I have never met him, Franken always seemed like a hugging, personable person. I remember the one interview of another person who made allegations, probably also linked on DU. This person mentioned that she had gained a lot of weight recently and was embarrassed when he squeezed her waist when they were taking the photo she had requested. That doesn't count as assault in my book.

This country very much needs a public discussion of what is and is not acceptable as far as behavior between men and women. An actual investigation of the allegations against Senator Franken would have helped the country move forward, although I am sure it would have been brutal for his family. I have never been a hugger, but I am well aware that there are people for whom such behavior is natural and not meant to intimidate or offend. I have no doubt that in the end, Franken would have been vindicated of all allegations.

No way in hell will I ever work for or vote for Gillibrand in any campaign. Fortunately, we will have plenty of other excellent candidates and I won't have to.

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Response to Cassidy (Reply #97)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 02:48 PM

135. Thank you for your post. The country certainly needs a public discussion of what is acceptable

And, yes, the MeToo moved too much to condemn what many of us used to engage in harmless flirt in the workplace. Though I admit that in too many cases what one side saw as a harmless flirt the other saw as an offense. By both genders, really.


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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #16)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:18 PM

105. Not all women are telling the truth.

If the accuser is close to Roger Stone and is seen in a few pictures after Al’s fake boobie grab rubbing her ass on a man, the other accusers are anonymous or smiling politely in a picture where Al is supposedly sexually abusing her; yea, send it to an investigation.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:08 PM

24. An act of self-aggrandizing betrayal is not simply a conflict.

Strictly speaking.

I will vote for the Democratic nominee.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:18 PM

30. Disscussion board! Get it??? Nt

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Response to USALiberal (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:44 PM

45. I do get it, but there is no discussion in having 9 threads that say, "Rachel is having Gillibrand.

I won't watch it."

OK, don't. Enjoy. But that's not discussion, and repeating it over and over doesn't help the party.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 03:18 PM

6. I suspect this will sink her early on...nt

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 03:26 PM

7. K&R!!!!!

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 03:31 PM

8. And there's no reason for KB to expect any favors from the Clinton people. nt

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Response to oasis (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 03:48 PM

12. They should keep their pocketbooks closed and the endorsements non-existent.

She's a phony backstabber.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 03:44 PM

10. Gee, I was told NOBODY cares or remembers about Franken-- and Gillibrand's role in his departure

I'm guessing this might be the first of many such editorials.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 10:19 AM

91. Really? Interesting.

That's the first thing I think about with regards to her, along with her back-stabbing of the Clintons when that seemed politically expedient for her.

I don't trust her at all. She's shown that she'll eat her own, she'll bite the hand the feeds... add other cliches.

As others have said, I'll vote for her if she's the nominee of course, but I don't think people will overlook what she really seems to be about when voting in the primaries. She's really about herself.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 04:02 PM

13. I'm not excluding anyone even if there are things in their past (even recent past) I don't like.


I'm not fond of Gillibrand (flip-flopping on guns and her leadership role in ousting Franken), but I'd like to give her more of a chance to present herself as a national candidate.

She certainly isn't the only one who has changed on guns or called for Franken to resign.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:22 PM

107. I agree

I look forward to a robust primary season where we welcome many voices, and focus on issues and the direction of the party.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:28 PM

110. She's the only one that gave no due process to Al..

Then went on talk shows afterward demanding due process for women who claim abuse.

To me she’s a political opportunist, who stabbed Clintons in the back and railroaded Franken.

That shows me poor judgement and a lack of character.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 04:05 PM

14. Good

I will never vote for Gillibrand for anything,
not even dogcatcher.

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Response to ananda (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 04:20 PM

15. please reconsider...

we must elect Democrats... if she becomes the candidate... we can't make any mistakes in 2020... even if it is a person we don't personally care for... the D means everything...

in 2010 many people here were discouraged with Obama and voiced that... my response always was... vote Democratic or we get John Boehner... and we did and that was the beginning of Obama's inability to get accomplished all that he would have been capable of with a Democratic House

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:28 PM

34. Well said

 

I don't like her either, but if she becomes the nominee she has my vote. I am just hoping that it is not her.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 04:54 PM

17. Agree 100%.

She took him down because she saw him as the main threat to her Presidential amibitions. Fed up with that kind of opportunism.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:23 PM

65. That's what I think too

She saw him as a rival and took the opportunity to eliminate him. I won't vote for her in the primary, and I will hold my nose and carry a barf bag if I have to vote for her in the GE.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #65)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 07:56 PM

77. Yup. Me too.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:41 PM

83. Or, the GOPee/Putin were blackmailing Gillibrand for something?

So, shut it down Kirsten, or we'll expose the laundered Russian blood money you got from the NRA? Some other embarrassing money passing through her hands?

speculation is all this farmer's daughter can do. Because I was never given any facts, unearthed by a proper investigation, to consider. I just know from past experience, that Republicans are dirty filthy mobbed up corrupt goons.

What was the fucking rush? What might a thorough investigation turned up? Maybe a Roger Stone dirty operation? An investigation that might have become a teaching moment for future generations along the lines of: Republicans are filthy and you should never ever underestimate how low they will stoop.

And the alleged crime of harassment (the accusations never rose to the level of assault or aggravated assult) does not rise to the level of punishment that was meted out.

And Franken is INNOCENT. And Minnesotans were robbed.

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Response to suegeo (Reply #83)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:13 PM

103. As were the rest of us. Robbed of Paul Wellstone's legacy twice.

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Response to mahina (Reply #103)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 02:38 PM

134. mahina, thank you for remembering another great Minnesotan.

I knew Paul and Sheila well and campaigned for him. Their deaths in that plane crash just days before the election devastated me.

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #134)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 02:49 PM

136. Me too, from so far away. He still lifts my heart.

What a leader. His love for people and fairness is still a light. It’s the best of us.

Aloha friend

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 04:56 PM

20. +100

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 04:57 PM

21. EXCELLENT letter.

Just spot on. It clarifies a lot of things.

Before the Franken kerfuffle, there was an article about Kirsten Gillibrand in Vogue, which I read (Vogue does great articles, FYI), and something about her just rubbed me the wrong way. I think it was that she seems like a self-appointed arbiter of justice, and that she completely lacks nuance. I don't want a Democratic candidate who lacks nuance.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:04 PM

22. I just don't see anyone running now or anyone we know may run

 

that could beat Senator Warren in the primary. With that said, we should be open to any progressive who chooses to run, go through the process and if I understand that process, can also make a few bucks out of it. Some politicians have made a fortune just running for office.

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Response to mastermind (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:12 PM

28. Keyword: progressive.

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Response to mastermind (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:35 PM

113. Warren is another topic..

But I see PLENTY of folks who can beat Warren in a primary. But that is off topic.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:05 PM

23. Given her history with Phillip Morris and the NRA rating, how is she a Democrat?

I had the same feeling about McCaskill, Manchin, and Bill Nelson. They voted the wrong way many times because they were from red states, but she's from New York. Maybe she needs a primary challenger.

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Response to CaptYossarian (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:12 PM

29. She seem chameleon-like

 

Not solidly anything other than what she thinks will make her popular at the moment. Not voting for her for many more reasons than just her Frankin related behavior.

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Response to CaptYossarian (Reply #23)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 10:46 AM

93. Bernie Sanders is a better "Democrat" than this Democrat. (n/t)

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #93)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:39 PM

114. ?Bernie signed that Railroad letter too!

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #114)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 01:22 PM

118. I was talking about all the republican-ish positions KG has taken over the years

i.e. from the OP "her legal work defending Philip Morris...or her then-100 percent approval rating from the National Rifle Association, or her outspoken opposition to amnesty for undocumented immigrants, or her strenuous opposition to legalizing same-sex marriage. "

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:11 PM

26. She doesn't think fast enough on her feet to be president.

Regardless her opinion on the Franken accusations, her handling of it was clumsy and clueless.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:11 PM

27. Saw that this morning in my paper newspaper and was going to post it here

but you beat me to it!

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:27 PM

33. Gillibrand



I completely agree. Hope she enjoyed her little tantrum to force Franken out-I still wish he had
stayed to fight-she will NEVER get my vote for president and I really, really, really hope she is not
on the ticket as VP. There are so many, even this early, that I would rather see, especially Kamala
Harris. How about Sherrod Brown and Kamala Harris. Or Harris and Brown. I don't care which has
top billing. Actually, as long as we're talking, I would like to see someone who is part of the progressive wing of the democratic party with someone who is more middle of the road democrat
on the ticker together.

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Response to pamdb (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:32 PM

39. I do hope that if she were to become the candidate for the Democratic party

 

that you will vote for her, its a choice between the orange buffoon, or any republican, and a democrat, no matter who the democrat is. The country cannot take four more years of republicans, as is it will take a long time to fix the damage from these two years.

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Response to pamdb (Reply #33)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:32 PM

112. ? Both Harris and Brown signed the Railroad letter...

So did my personal favorites Baldwin and Booker. I won’t vote in a primary for either of them.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:30 PM

35. K & R

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:30 PM

36. I have asked this question before, maybe someone here can answer it

 

Why are people not rooting for Adam Schiff as a candidate? I thnk he would make a hell of a president, one we can be proud of. Is there something I don't know?

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Response to Perseus (Reply #36)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:40 PM

42. So far it doesn't seem like he's ever expressed an interest in it.

I like him a lot, too, and if he did want to run he'd be on my list - and way, way ahead of Gillibrand.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #36)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 07:22 PM

76. People often are best in specific posts and Adam Schiff is excellent as head of

the House intelligence committee where he will call witnesses to testify. He knows this job.

Though he did express an interest in the senate when Feinstein will end her.

Similarly, and I know I will rattle many here, I think that Warren is an excellent senator, or can be an excellent cabinet member, perhaps chair the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau that was her idea.

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Response to question everything (Reply #76)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:42 PM

115. I do agree. But maybe we NEED him to run

He has every characteristic I love in a political leader. AND the best poker face!!

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Response to Perseus (Reply #36)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 01:54 PM

122. His fan base has mentioned it, but he isn't talking.

I would wait until at least he talks about forming an exploratory committee, or says something indicating he might be interested. I know he was in New Hampshire in October of last year, but he isn't on the radar yet.

He is an excellent communicator and has been great on taking on Trump.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:30 PM

37. She will have my complete support if/when she comes out of the Convension with the nod.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:35 PM

40. Exactly the way I feel. As they say, "She's dead to me."

 

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:41 PM

43. Wonderful Letter. Thanks for posting!

 

The whole tobacco thing should disqualify her in the first place.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 05:46 PM

46. Please let me once again. . .

Please let me once again state her first stop was Wall Street! That in and of itself disqualifies her in my opinion. Thank you. That is all. As you were.

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Response to Hangdog Slim (Reply #46)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:02 PM

53. Welcome to DU

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:04 PM

56. Hypocrisy of Gillibrand

I can't stand Gillibrand. She talks out both sides of her mouth. I will always believe she went after Al Franken because she saw him as a competitor that would be hard to beat. Al Franken had become one of our strongest voices in congress and a 'Giant in the Senate'. We needed him in the Senate - can you imagine how he would be fighting for us today!!!

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:16 PM

60. Spot on analysis.

I've said all I'm going to say about Ms. Gillibrand.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:27 PM

66. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

I was completely unaware of many of her stances. I knew about the NRA but was not aware of the others.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:28 PM

67. The one thing I knew for sure when that all happened.

I knew then she was running for President. I saw that as her first announcement.

I'm not a fan but much more to do with her short tenure as a liberal. I'd prefer someone who has lived it all their lives, right in the trenches, not from afar in the cushy gallery.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2019, 06:35 PM

70. There were two letters

 

But you only chose to share one. Here is the other:
After Gillibrand’s announcement Tuesday that she will seek the presidency, many former constituents of Al Franken have expressed their lingering anger toward her on his behalf. This warrants a few reminders:

• Franken resigned from the Senate of his own accord, without an investigation, at the request of Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y.

• Gillibrand was joined by a swath of other progressive leaders in calling for Franken’s resignation. The group includes other announced and likely presidential candidates, such as Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., and Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., and even Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt.

• Gillibrand has been consistent in her efforts to root out sexual harassment in the workplace, whether that’s her support for the #MeToo movement, introduction of legislation supporting military service members who have been sexually harassed, or even remarks that, in retrospect, Bill Clinton (a hero of her own party) should have resigned in the wake of his own indiscretions. To suggest that her demand that Franken be held accountable for his actions was an isolated or opportunistic move is to ignore her record.

Gillibrand may or may not be the right candidate to lead the Democratic Party in 2020. Either way, Minnesotan progressives owe her an open mind and opportunity to articulate her vision for our country without Franken’s specter lingering over her.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #70)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:32 PM

111. It was not Chuck Schumer that was the deciding factor in Al's decision to resign

It was the fact that the Governor of Minnesota publicly announced Al's replacement before even asking if he had made a decision that was the deciding factor. Unless Al has said something different to you personally or to someone you know personally (and I am using the same standard for my statement here) since last April, you can take that as gospel.

Yes, 30 other Democratic Senators jumped on the bandwagon. It was at the height of the Doug Jones campaign, and KG did come out with forceful language that convinced many Democratic Senators that a time window was rapidly closing, and that this was a boat they dare not miss. Never mind that his "accusers" had nothing to back up their accusations. The Senators erred in their judgment, every last one of them. Barring a public, personal apology to Al, there is not a one of them I will support in the primary next year. If Putin decides he wants a larger piece of the Ukraine, and sends his army to back that decision up, I want a cooler head as CIC to deal with it. I would rather have Al Franken, for that matter, in the Situation Room than ANY of his 30+ detractors.

I saw Gillibrand announce her candidacy on the Colbert show (I am in the States until Monday). She was lame, used stock phrases (going to "bring us all together?" Wow, what a daring plan!), and was not at all quick-thinking. Any Minnesotan progressive (or one from any other state) who was open-mindedly willing to let her state case should have gagged at her poor performance. It certainly gave me the impression that her hounding of Al Franken was brought on by design and not by conviction.

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Response to DFW (Reply #111)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 01:58 PM

123. Ok

 

I was just posting the other letter since the OP had only posted the first.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #123)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 02:09 PM

130. I'm not interested in permanently obsessing over this

But certain things cannot be definitively fact-checked without direct access to the parties involved, and that one deserved correction.

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Response to DFW (Reply #111)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 03:06 PM

137. Thank you for your clear analysis

Thus, Franken has been the "collateral damage" to block Roy Moore. How sad, how disheartening.

Still, as I post elsewhere on this thread - it was the drip drip drip method that was used with Hillary's emails. It appeared that every other day, or so, a new allegations appeared and he had to respond to each. This would have affected his effectiveness. Still, his peers should have awaited for the ethics committee, not that it would have made a difference.

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Response to question everything (Reply #137)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 03:17 PM

140. There was a reason he was slow to react

Namely, he knew better than anyone the "allegations" were all bogus, and didn't think there was anything to respond to. It blindsided him completely that anyone took them seriously, and people who knew him and his family well never did.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:27 AM

86. I believe that Gillibrand used Franken for her personal political purposes.

Therefore, the only circumstances under which I would vote for her is ... if the choice is between her and a republican.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 10:28 AM

92. she wont get far....you can tell she's fake

 

from the repetitive (obviously practiced) voice inflection when she talks. she does this thing where every sentence ends in this whispered tone like she is trying to convey how much she cares about everyone and every issue. I noticed this during the maddow interview and at first i was thinking it was effective .....but then when she did it every sentence i realized how fake she was gonna come off. it sounds really practiced. people are gonna see right thru her quick

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 11:01 AM

94. I'll just put this here

Kristen Gillibrand as a cat!

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 11:10 AM

95. As a former

AZ resident (now abroad) I won't vote for her in the primary and if she becomes the nominee, I will not do anything to support her.

Listen, I have very strong feminist views and she is not someone I would support after how she railroaded Al out of the Senate. She blew it.

Al should run for President and I would do everything I could to get him elected.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 11:15 AM

96. The Franken thing stuck in my craw a little bit

And I wouldn't vote for her in a primary, but if she is the nominee, then I will support her fully.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 11:56 AM

100. Nor mine. Her spectacular flameout on. Rachel Maddow (1st interview. Since

Announcing) sealed it.

Al Franken is the reason Sessions recused.

His economy of words and laser razor wit stands in marked contrast. What a staggering loss, for nothing.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:16 PM

104. It was ALL about HER career. Get rid of a more popular candidate;look good & (feel good)doing it.

She will only get my vote if she's the last Dem standing.

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Response to flying_wahini (Reply #104)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:21 PM

106. How do you know that?

 

Do you have evidence that supports your accusations?

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:26 PM

108. Me too.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:27 PM

109. While I am really sorry about the loss of Franken, who

 

would have been great during the Kavanah hearings, I thought this was done to establish a marker -- a 0-tolerance policy -- for the Democratic Party as a contrast with the Republican Party. In other words, it was a political move for the good of the party, one that Franken went along with and sacrificed his position for.

However, the episode highlights the need for nuances in sexual harassment allegations and for some discussion of the kind of evidence that can be expected to support such allegations. Journalists have an incentive to sensationalize allegations, while in a legal setting it is very hard to make a case. My view is that, for these kinds of crimes, lie detectors should be used and made admissable in court to get beyond the "he said, she said" modality. Likewise, capturing data from cell phones and social media ought to be the norm in such cases.

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Response to Perrenial Voter (Reply #109)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:49 PM

117. If this was political jiu-jitsu to calibrate the Democratic Party to the #MeToo movement . . .

Then it was stupid, stupid, stupid; dishonorable; and cost way too much.

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Response to Perrenial Voter (Reply #109)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 02:01 PM

126. Agree with your second paragraph.

Not so much the first.

I won’t rehash my opinion of Al “went along.”

When did we need to needlessly “sacrifice” our most popular senator for our party.

In the end.... look how much it “helped” the party.

This issue alone is going to keep Gillibrand out. It may cause Harris, Schumer, Booker, Brown and the rest to be out. In my book they are out. I actually hope they are. Is that helping the party?

This episode of political opportunity to me does not do anything to help victims of real abuse either.

Meanwhile the people’s hopes for Al are smashed and wasted.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:46 PM

116. She's dead to me. n/r

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 02:00 PM

124. +1000

Great post.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 02:01 PM

127. Gillibrand is a small ripple in the pond, there are far more important things to attend to.

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 02:12 PM

132. I will vote for Gillibrand.

If it is necessary, yes, I will vote for Kirsten Gillibrand. However, I will take no pride in that action.

As for Franken, he was essentially being put in the position of answering the question, "When did you stop molesting women?" It was close to a no-win situation for the man, and he did his best for the greater good when he chose to resign.

Franken has been criticized for his responses towards his accusers. If he had flatly stated that any one of them was lying, he would have been employing the tactic used by genuine sexual predators. Some say that he didn't really--truly--apologize. Again, like the loaded question above, a seriously remorseful apology would have been an admission of guilt, which would have been an untruth.

Franken was walking the careful line of respecting the #MeToo movement and the enormous, completely real issue of sexual assault and the abuse of power that proceeds sexual harassment and sexual misconduct.

Yes, women need to be believed. Yes, men need to be held accountable. And yes, women--being human beings--can sometimes misconstrue, misrepresent or outright lie. This statement does not make me a bad feminist or a self-hating woman.

We all know that children have been the victims of sexual abuse. We all care about this issue. We also know that people's reputations were ruined during the Day-care sex abuse hysteria that took place 30 years ago. Some of the people hurt were the children being prodded and manipulated psychologically during the investigations. Other people hurt since then may have been children who were not listened to or believed by people wary of being caught up in such unfounded thinking a second time around.

We care about women. We care about sexual harassment, sexual assault and abuse of power. We also care about truth. Al Franken was not served with truth, and sexual abuse victims everywhere were not served by the distortion of truth and the abuse of power that targeted him.

I am including a link to an article that I strongly disagree with because I am not sure how to articulate my points of disagreement. Perhaps someone else can do a better job.


https://www.vox.com/2018/5/21/17352230/al-franken-accusations-resignation-democrats-leann-tweeden-kirsten-gillibrand

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Response to question everything (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2019, 03:43 PM

144. Good letter to the editor

Thank you for posting it.
Anyone enabling Roger Stone's ratfecking will not get my vote. Ever.

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